‘I wasted a year of my life!’ Chris Sutton on Life as a Manager
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Hello everybody and welcome to the weekly ray of spring sunshine that is your It's All Kicking Off weekend preview show. Chris Sutton is here. Chris, I have sunburn on my neck and we're not even into May yet. Spot of jet washing of the patio yesterday has left me rather sore. Need to get a man in to do it next week. You've got to jet wash? Yeah. Get some stuff in. Yeah. Well, it's nice to see the sun comes out up north. It's a beautiful week.

It's a beautiful week. Beautiful week in Manchester. Big weekend. You've not got that sort of tan skin, have you? You've not got that. No, I don't tan, I stroke.

Yeah, I tend to go from kind of translucent to pale. That's what I tend to do. There we go. Right, big weekend in the championship this weekend, big weekend in the EFL coming up. And I'm going to kill you, Chris, with a big opening stat. In the championship this weekend, it is possible that Coventry could be promoted and Preston relegated, with Coventry having lost more games.

That's a good stat. Can you tell us all the permutations going into it? So Coventry have lost 17 games. That's a great stat, yeah. And are hanging on to the playoff places. Preston have lost 16. What's killed Preston? It's been 19 draws. That's the killer, 19 draws for Preston. Right, I can't talk to you about all the permutations.

Who can go up and who can go down? Just wait. I can't tell you all the permutations in the championship because there are too many. But what I can tell you is this. Only eight clubs of the 24 in the championship are not impacted this weekend by the promotion and relegation situation. One game to go and there's just eight clubs in the middle of the table who aren't.

affected by what goes on this weekend. Now, we know there's a couple who've already gone up. We know there's a couple who've already gone down. I have included them, but even so, you get where I'm going. Five teams are fighting over two remaining playoff spots at the top of the championship. And there are five teams you could yet go down with Plymouth and Cardiff at the bottom.

I've had a look myself, actually. I'm glad. At the different permutations, which there could be. I mean, if you want me to run through a fair few, I mean, I'm happy to do that. It may take 35 minutes, but it's... It might take 35 minutes, an algorithm and a calculator and an abacus, but you can do it. What's jumping out at you? Interesting.

Well, it's all jumping out at us. You know, the point for Middlesbrough, Middlesbrough's goal difference, they're on plus 10 and they've got a superior goal difference to the teams above them, Blackburn Rovers, Millwall, Coventry and Bristol City. They have to win to go up, but they...

they are then relying on the four teams above them not uh to win the game I mean for Bristol City a win in there and they're certain of uh of being in the playoffs a draw may not be enough but maybe a loss they might be okay that's their sort of um

their way. Coventry, a win is likely for them to be in the playoffs, but there is a scenario if Millwall, who are beneath them, win by a bit of a cricket score, Coventry could still win and still may miss out on the playoff. Millwall have been extraordinary under...

Alex Neil. And if Bristol City don't win, or Coventry don't win, and Millwall do win, then Millwall will be guaranteed a playoff place. A draw may be enough for Blackburn Rovers, remarkably enough. If Coventry and Bristol City draw...

And a win for Millwall, Coventry. And I've actually, these permutations are too much. Anyway, but Blackburn Rovers, amazing that they thought they were done. Blackburn Rovers did. But there is a scenario where if they draw, that may be enough because their goal difference is superior to Millwall and Coventry who are above them. So that's right. Blackburn Rovers, if they draw, they can still get a playoff.

if they win, then there's a way that they can still get a playoff place, but they might miss out. I mean, it's fascinating. And that's only the top. That's only the top.

I'm looking at you on Zoom. You barely took a breath during that. You've actually gone red in the face. You're talking about me being pale. You've actually gone red in the face. I really enjoyed that because what you did then, and thank you for your diligent research, that actually summed up the chaotic nature of the last weekend. The chaotic nature of your little soliloquy there has actually summed up exactly what the championship will feel like

at kick-off at 12.30 on Saturday. Let's pick out a couple of games. You've mentioned Middlesbrough and Coventry there. So, Middlesbrough, who are the outsiders for the playoffs? They're in ninth. They are the outliers. They go to Coventry. Michael Carrick

against Frank Lampard. That, two former England midfielders, that adds a layer of intrigue to it as well. Coventry currently clinging on to the final playoff spot. This is Frank Lampard's third job in management. I think Chelsea twice, obviously, but third club. Michael Carrick's first job

I want to ask you, Chris, you dipped your toe into the world of management 15 or 16 years ago when you had a season at Lincoln. You pretty much came out of the game and went straight in. Serious question. You were a big-name player north of the border, south of the border. What's it like?

when you do that in terms of the level of expectation, the level of focus, the level of attention. How did you find it? And how will that relate to how people like Frank Lampard, Michael Carrick find it? Because they're still young men still finding their way in that profession.

How did I find it? Well, I think myself, like a lot of players, coming out of their playing careers, you have a decision to make. We all love the game. And a lot of players would feel, because of the knowledge which they have obtained throughout their footballing career, they can go on and...

And manage, some players don't want to do that. Maybe there's sort of a bit of ego with the aspect of wanting to become a manager. And so, yeah, I wanted to give it a go, just like Frank and Michael Carrick have said.

have wanted to give it a go. But it's a totally different skill set. That was the eye-opener for me. I knew it would be slightly different. I don't think that I covered all bases. I learned a lot. And when I said I didn't cover all bases, what's important, I think every player feels that they can coach and understands the game to varying degrees. I think we all understand that.

I did all my coaching qualifications, got my A license, got my pro license, went for an interview at Lincoln. I think there were 70, 75 other applicants ended up getting the job. And yeah,

I enjoyed the experience. I'm glad that I did it, enjoyed the coaching side of it. You know, a lot of things were new to me because it's totally different to being a player. If I sort of go back to when I first started at Lincoln, what I wasn't across, I wasn't across the lower leagues and my knowledge of the lower leagues. I wasn't enough across...

the sort of under 21 teams across the country. And why is that important? It's important for... Because it's not just about tactics. It's about recruitment.

and sort of knowledge of the lower league. So that's something which, um, you know, it was a really steep learning curve, uh, for me. And it depends which level you started. I started at league twos and, um, you know, for example, uh, things like scouting, I would have to go and scout myself and watch the opposition myself. And, um,

you know, when, I mean, I had my children at home, you know, I barely saw them. I had my wife. She was probably happy that I didn't see her, but it's so, it's so intense. You know, it was, you know, I was driving to talkie on a, on a, on a Tuesday night to watch them, you know, you're getting back at some,

four or five in the morning getting up for training. Yeah. No, it was, you know, it was, it was, you know, it was knackering. I felt the waste of the year of my life doing it as much as anything. And when I say that, I say it because,

I was trying to get home a couple of times a week, watch my kids play sport. And, you know, I felt I sort of let that, let them down as much as, as anything, but I'm glad I tried it. I'm, I'm glad I dipped my toe. And if I didn't have everything else, I mean, I work hard now, but if it didn't have, uh, you know, all my children and, and, you know, uh,

and what I've got then and I was sort of on my own and then I could quite easily sort of have another go so if Sam divorces me then you might find me back into you know in management because I do I do love the game I do you know absolutely love the game but I think there's

You know, there are priorities. The difference between playing and managing is as a player, you just have to think about yourself. You think about, you know, your recovery after games, you know, and you go in training and, you know, you rest up and you're just solely focused on yourself. Management, it's mental. Honestly, I admire anybody who does it. And I really do because there are so many different sort of aspects of

Saturday afternoon, you play your game, win, lose or draw. There's always, you know, you're analysing the game on a Saturday evening when you're driving home to, when I was driving a couple of hours home to, you know, have a takeaway with my family while I'm having the takeaway and they're talking to me. I'm not listening to what they're saying. I sort of am listening, but I'm not listening because I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about the next day's,

about training, about injuries, about the next game. All these things that occupies your mind for every waking hour. And then there's, you know, the other side, not just the coaching side. There's sort of board meetings. There's all sorts of things.

uh, to organize. And that, and you know, that, that was, you know, that was, that, that was very, very challenging for me. And, uh, uh, but you know, the coaching side, I really enjoyed being out on the, on the pitch with the players. I do. And then I, and then there was a couple of players sent down for match fixing, which didn't help. I,

I do. You probably haven't got time to get into that. I do. That never helps. I do like that idea. If you split up from Sam, you might have another go at management. I think that would be a great, great opening line at an interview at a championship club. So, so Mr Sutton, what is it that attracts you to this job at West Bob's?

Oh, well, the missus has just left me. I've got nothing else to do. So I thought I'd come and run your football club for a while. But seriously, interesting. That's a really interesting and succinct insight there into pressures of management, given what you've just said and given the toll that it takes and the time that it takes. Can I just explain a bit more? Just a tiny bit more. And the issue is, and a lot of players...

I bet Frank Lampard and Michael Carrick think this. You want to succeed. You're desperate to succeed. And...

And when you're a player, of course, you want to succeed. And how do you succeed? Most players, if not every player I played with, you succeed by working hard. You succeed by giving it everything. So every, as I say, every waking hour, that is what I was focused on. Now, there may be managers out there, certainly the more experienced ones, who are able to sort of switch off at times and have learned through experience how to do that. But...

For me personally, and I think most people I know, I don't think that, I don't think that that's in, in the competitive nature of, uh, of people I played with. And that was, that was, that was a difficulty. I think one point worth noting on the back of what you said is that certainly with the advances of technology and the resources and access that managers now have to those resources and data and, um,

Everything's online. You can watch every game in the world if you want without leaving your living room. Also, you were at it with respect to Lincoln. You were at a small club. I'm sure that Frank at Coventry, Michael at Middlesbrough, two big clubs, albeit outside the Premier League at the moment, have staff to help, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. However, we'll ask you one thing. Given all the things that you've just said,

Does that make your, does that make you admire people like Frank and Michael for going into management when to put it crudely, I'm sure they don't need the money. Um, yes, it's, it's, it's love of the game, isn't it? It, you know, it's, it's, it's wanting to be successful, but everybody has, has different motives. And, you know, we, we, you know, we, we, you know, we can think we can, you know, assume certain things. Uh,

For example, Neil Lennon, I work with Neil north of the border. He's just taken the Dunfermline job, a team who are struggling in the Scottish Championship. Neil Lennon managed Celtic, won titles at Celtic, has a big reputation there.

What on earth is he doing, taking a job for a team who are struggling in the Scottish Championship? There are people who can't leave. He can't. No, it's like a drug, isn't it? Yeah, there are people who can't leave it alone. And that's what it is. And even, I mean, Michael Carrick is in his, you know, Middlesbrough are a patient club. They're a well-run club, aren't they? And did you say he's in his third season? Yeah.

No, no, no. I said that Frank was in his third job. I think Michael's probably done about two and a half seasons, hasn't he? Yeah. Off the top of my head. So, and that's actually, you know, he's done pretty well in this mad world of management to last that long. Frank going to Coventry, you know, and you think about that, a team who were struggling in the championship. Yeah, when they sat Mark Roberts. I really admire that.

uh, Frank, because he doesn't, you know, both, both players don't need to do that. And it's not like he's, uh, his ego is that big where he, you know, he's, he's waiting for a job in the premier league. He actually wants to get his hands dirty, go into the, uh, championship and test himself and also back himself that he's capable of, uh, of getting Coventry promoted the championship. We're just, you know, at the top there, we just explained how mental, uh,

It is that, you know, that stat which you came up with. It's ridiculous. You know, Coventry, playoff place. Preston, you know, a fair chance they'll get relegated. Well, I don't know what the sort of odds are on them getting relegated. I've not done the permutations at the bottom yet. But, you know, that's a mental stat. Spent a little bit of time with Frank Lampard five or six weeks ago, and...

One Friday at Coventry's training ground and what two things came across, came across loud and clear from Frank was that one, how desperate he is to succeed at management and how much he just enjoys it and wants to be involved in it and wants to learn and wants to coach. But secondly, he actually was very, very candid and said, although he's desperate to get back into the Premier League where he was with Chelsea, excuse me,

You know, I've missed one of his jobs. I've missed one of it. Did I miss one of Frank's jobs out? It was Derby, wasn't he? No, I've missed a job. I forgot about Everton. I forgot about Everton. I'm doing it again. He started at Derby, didn't he? He did well at Derby. I went Derby, Chelsea, Coventry. I missed Everton out. It was in his fourth job. Sorry. So, wants to get back into the Premier League, but also said to me that actually he quite enjoys working. He's enjoyed the season working away from the spotlight.

You know, when I went to see him for a Friday afternoon press conference, there were literally four people in the room. You do that at a Premier League club and there's 24 people in the room. He said he was actually enjoying working away from the spotlight. Now you mentioned, so that's Lampard versus Carrick, that's Coventry versus Middlesbrough, one of the big headline games in the championship on Saturday. You said you hadn't looked at the bottom. Well, I have, yeah.

Interesting at the bottom, you mentioned Bristol City, they're at home to Preston. Preston, I remember when Preston were playing in the FA Cup against Aston Villa in February, you and I were talking about the team that Paul Heckenbottom might pick. And we were saying, oh, he'll pick a strong team because they can't go up and there's no way they're going to go down. Well, since losing that game to Villa, Preston have lost five games.

and drawn two, including losing their last four. They are now in a bit of bother. Again, they are on the fringes of it, but they could get sucked in. They're playing Bristol City. Bristol City need to win, not the type of game that Preston would have chosen. Preston have to win, of course, to be sure of staying up. A draw may be enough, but a loss may be enough for them to stay up as well.

but you just don't know. Derby at home to Stoke, two big Midlands rivals from my time living and working in Staffordshire. I know exactly that there is no love lost between those two clubs. John Eustace has done a very good job since leaving Blackburn for Derby, dragging Derby on.

They've just won two on the bounce, including a big one at Hull. Stoke have been trending in the opposite direction. They have been sucked into it. They've just lost at home to Sheffield United. Interesting, Derby winning at Hull. When

When Hull sacked Liam Resignia a year ago, they'd just finished seventh in the championship. They missed out on the playoffs on the last day of the season, I think. Hull sacked Resignia, saying they wanted to see the team playing the more attractive brand of football. I wonder how attractive that football will look if it's taking place in League One. Resignia, meanwhile, now manager of Strasbourg.

in France, who've lost once in the French League since November and are currently two points off third. Just shows how some clubs may live to regret decisions they make in haste. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. Life can get overwhelming and stress and anxiety have a way of creeping up on us

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Intrigue further down the pyramid as well. In League 1, it's Reading and Orient competing for the final playoff place, while in League 2, dear old Walsall, no win now in 13 games, have one last chance to make good a game.

automatic place at look there's for so many weeks this season they are at crew this weekend Bradford who occupy the place above them played Fleetwood at home if Bradford see that one over the line they will go up Warsaw will be in the playoffs where I must admit I wouldn't give them a hope in hell given the run that they are on very very quickly Chris couple of Premier League things

Liverpool go to Chelsea, Champions Liverpool go to Chelsea Sunday afternoon. Be interesting to see how Liverpool get on, whether they can raise themselves to put in a performance. I'm sure there's been a few late nights on Merseyside since they clinched a title at the weekend. At Chelsea, Moresco is starting to niggle a little bit with the media, which is never...

a good sign. He's starting to push back. You lot are horrible. We really are. We're horrible when we talk common sense. You've upset a lot of people from Chelsea over the years, me included, putting the boot in. We're horrible when we talk common sense and do those awful things like start printing the league tables and the results in the newspapers and on the websites. And Jemezka is pushing back a little bit. This is what he said when he was asked about the importance of

securing a Champions League place at a press conference this week. In the last two years, Chelsea have been top four zero times, says the head coach. This season, we've been top four most of the season. Well, I'll say a couple of things about that. It doesn't matter where you've been for most of the season, it's where you finish at the end.

And Chelsea, as we record this on Wednesday, are currently fifth, but they won't be if Nottingham Forest beat Brentford with their game in hand on Thursday. And also, yes, Chelsea have not been in the top four in the last couple of seasons, but that's why Mureska was hired. I don't think there's any point looking backwards, Chris. He's got to look forwards. As we've just said, results do matter. And if Chelsea don't finish in the top five, then it's failure, is it not?

Yep. I agree with everything you said. You know, that's why he was brought in. It was making the next step. I actually thought it was quite strange the way Pochettino ended the season. He ended the season strongly, didn't he? But they were gathering momentum at the end of the season. He'd taken over a difficult job, but Maresca, you know, um,

A couple of things there. Maresca was brought in, as you've said, to finish in the top four. But then the start of the season, they were so consistent. They were in a title race at one stage and there has been a massive drop-off. So there is rightfully scrutiny on him. Not that I'm advocating him to be sacked.

No, indeed. And I'm not either. Arsenal have got some, let's just say, some repair work to do. Disappointing night for them against PSG. It'll be interesting how they approach their game at home to Bournemouth this weekend because they've got to find something because they've got to go to Paris next week and try and turn that tie around.

The Bournemouth player Evan Nielsen will play in that game this morning, Wednesday. He's had his red card that he was awarded against Manchester United overturned. And that feels like the right decision, Chris, does it not?

Yeah, I mean, that was bonkers. It fell over. Yeah, the referee can miss it. Of course he can. But what was happening in the VAR hub at that time? I don't know what they were doing. Off the mat cup of tea. You could probably...

give a podcast that title, What Was Happening in the Var Hall. But that'd be a great title for a podcast. It's something that we've been thinking about most weeks of this season, has it not? Talking about the season as a whole, Chris, let's have a little look back briefly. What we're going to do over the next few podcasts is Chris and I, we've already named our manager of the season.

We've already named our play of the season. We know how that went for me. My Twitter feed is still humming along nicely with the Bruno Fernandes thing. Now we're going to do our team of the season. We're not going to do it all today. We're just going to do goalkeeper today and then we'll do back four next Monday and midfield and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So Chris, let's do our goalkeeper of the season from the Premier League. Do you want to lead the way?

Yeah, I'm going to go for... Alisson has been the outstanding goalkeeper, best goalkeeper in the Premier League, best goalkeeper in the world. Just ask Dom King. And I have, I've changed my mind from the start of the season, but based on this season, he ain't great with his feet, makes big saves in the big moments. I mean, I know who you're going to go for, Inanna. LAUGHTER

I'd be genius if I did, wouldn't I? Aaron Ramsdale. It wouldn't be genius, no. Aaron Ramsdale. No, I'm not going to go for Andre Inanna. I'm going to go for Alisson. Come on. Don't be stupid. Come on. I'm going to go for Matt Sells, Nottingham Forest.

13 clean sheets out of 33, leading the race for the Golden Glove. I think, is he a better goalkeeper than Alisson? No. But given... No, hang on a minute. Let's not get into that again. This is about level of performance relative to who you play for and who you are. Who's been the best goalkeeper in the league this season? That was the question. Matt Stelz. Matt Stelz.

Okay. He has. Matt South, that's for Nostican Forest. He's been the best goalkeeper. No, he has. I'm not saying he is, he is genuinely the best goalkeeper in the world, but this season, he's been the best in the Premier League. Matt South. And my other contenders would have been, yeah, Alisson, but Alisson missed a chunk. Go,

Got to remember, Alisson, Mr. Chung. So you've got to take that into consideration. I would have had David Rea...

And I would even have Mark Flecken on the outside of that conversation. I think he's had a great season at Brentford as well, but I'm going to go for Matt Sells and Otterkin Forrest. So you're going to go for Alison Becker, obvious Chris, as we like to call you. And I mean, I presume your back four that we'll do on Monday will be Alexander-Arnold, Van Dijk, Canarte and Robertson. That'll be your back four on Monday, will it? So we just get that out of the way now. So we don't have to do that? No, we don't have to do the back four. Oh, yeah. Maybe...

Maybe Henry will edit that out. Stop sniping at Henry. The lad's still recovering from his mouth and bless him. He's spent the last two days in bed and then he had to go and watch Arsenal get humped by PSG. He's not having a great week, Henry. Okay, so there we go. There's our goalkeepers. Alison for Chris, Matt sells for me. You're only humping Henry's head. Let us know what you think.

Oh, it's so short for that one. You know where you can find us. You can find us on X. You can go to all of male sports social channels. Let us know who is your goalkeeper of the season. Put your whole team on there if you want. We'll be getting to you eventually. You can do it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever it is that you get this show. While you're there, remember, remember, hit the follow button, leave us a rating. Five stars would be lovely and do tell a friend. Chris, one more thing to say.

Celtic are at Rangers on Sunday. The first time that they've been away, Celtic have been allowed to take away fans into Ibrox since 2023. What a day to do it. Just when Celtic have won the league. Are Rangers going to give them a guard of honour? Is that how it works in Scotland?

Any chance of that? That's been all the talk, hasn't it? Well, I think under Michael Beale, they ditched that, didn't they? No, I'm not. I couldn't care less. What did they use to do it? Rangers for Celtic and vice versa. I don't know whether that has been the case.

Yeah, I can't actually remember, but I know it got biffed in general, you know, the Guard of Honor thing. But I don't know. It depends what sort of floats your boat with this type of thing. So, I mean, Celtic have won 13 out of the last 14 titles. Just his...

Put yourself in a Rangers fan position and Barry Ferguson, the Rangers manager, should the Rangers manager actually give Celtic a guard of honour to actually on their own patch. No. To sort of fire them up for next season to say, you know, we don't want this humiliation. I'm just saying, you know, that is an argument. No. But I couldn't care less. No.

Rangers players shouldn't need firing up for next season. It's humiliating, humiliating. But that's one in the memory bank, isn't it? It can't happen again. I think, well, if you've got to fire your players up by making them give a guard of honour to their fiercest rivals before an old firm derby, I think you've got a problem in your dressing room that needs fixing. Guard of honour for me... I think there was one anyway.

You know, God of honour for me, don't care for it. Will Liverpool get one at Chelsea? Don't care. Should they get one when Arsenal come to Anfield next week? Don't care. All that matters is the trophy. All that matters for Liverpool is the trophy. All that matters for Celtic is the trophy.

is the trophy. So we can put Guards of Honor in the bin, I would say. I have to say, though, if you were a Rangers fan, and I know they won't. I'm not. I know they won't. Okay, if I were a Rangers fan, my God, would I go on Sunday? Would I go? Would I go? What a day to go. I think I'd just go to the park. Seriously. Why? Why put yourself through that? Why put yourself through that?

You've had a miserable season. I mean, there is some array of light for Rangers, isn't it, with the 49ers takeover, etc. There is a ray of light that there might be a light at the end of the tunnel for them. But on the pitch, it's been dismal again, apart from the Europa League run. It's been dismal. Changing manager again. Celtic are winning everything. Celtic are disappearing into distance. Goodness me, I'm just not sure I'd bother turning up.

on Sunday but there you go that's just me you're not a real fan are you that's the thing obviously not you're one of these soft soft southern fans who just want to rock up when they you know when the team's doing well you don't understand the hardcore fan do you just don't know if I could put myself through it anyway there we go that's it we're done supporting Rangers I think a lot of people feel that way we're done you can get yourself out on the farm I've got work to do we'll be back on Monday we'll see you then thanks for being with us everyone