Is it Wise for Tuchel to Criticise Players he Won't See for a Few Months?
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I was actually briefly going to start this podcast with that Eminem thing that goes, guess who's back? Guess who's back? But I don't know the words and I can't sing. But you are back. Chris Sutton is back. He's back from New York. New York. Well, that's a long way to go to meet a few Celtic fans. But ever the trooper, ever the committed Celtic legend, you put the club first and you went there and you did it.

Yes, I did. Yeah, and I was on Broadway, Ian, a little Q&A for the Celtic Foundation, who do a lot of good work on Broadway. Irish Bar, was it? No, no, it's in a beautiful building. Irish Bar. It was not in an Irish bar. It was for the Celtic Foundation. Serious deal. They raised over $400,000, Ian, for...

for the foundation. It goes to a lot of good causes and I was the guest. And how much of that went to you? No, sorry. I mean, how much of that was raised by people queuing up in the New York late winter to come and see you?

Well, I mean, I don't know. We'll have to get that bit edited, the bit you just said, to save your skin. Otherwise, there'll be a libel action on that. But no, I had a really good time. Went over with my son, James, as well. He came along.

and had a great time actually. Went up the Empire State Building, paid $160 for that, and then went to have lunch at a building called Hudson Yards, which was actually, it seemed to be a bit taller than the Empire State Building. It was absolutely amazing. Central Park, Central Park Station. And then unfortunately, because of the debacle at Heathrow, I flew home from an airport I'd never heard of,

60, 70 miles north of New York and New York State via Reykjavik on an airline, some Icelandic airline called Play. I mean, I was slightly concerned, I have to say. But you're back. I don't think the Empire State Building claims to be the tallest building in New York. Well, I'm not saying it did, but the point I'm trying to make is that there is a taller one nearby. I don't think that's its claim to fame.

No, but my point was we paid $160 to go up there and then a guy, Murray, who kindly took us for lunch, lovely Greek restaurant at the Hudson Yards, that seemed to be taller than the Empire State Building. Not that it's really bothered you that it cost you $160. Well, I just don't want to waste the money if I'm on a taller building. And you could go, I don't know what you're like with heights, but you could... Not great. Yeah.

Yeah, so on this Hudson Yards building, you could go out and you could stand on a clear bit of the platform and look straight down. That sounds horrendous. Yeah, and talk about adrenaline. Did you go on that before your lunch or after your lunch? I did it after I sat on there. I lost the old...

rock, paper, scissors with my son and I had to end up sitting on there looking down. Unbelievable adrenaline. My daughter plays rock, paper, scissors, stone, but she's introduced a gun. She plays rock, paper, scissors, stone, gun. She's six.

Can I just say, I mean, without one of those, as it's your daughter, but you said rock, paper, scissors, stone. Oh, yeah, sorry. Rock, paper, scissors, rock, paper, scissors.

Well, she plays rock, paper, scissors and gun. That's an interesting game. I've never heard of it. We make the points, but well, the gun just obviously blows away everything. So why don't you do gun every time? Says she saw it on YouTube. So probably says more about my parenting than it does about her. Anyway, glad to have you back. I don't know how many practices you had when you were there, but I probably don't need to ask. You've missed a bit of international football. Now, we're not going to talk an awful lot about... Go on.

Did I really miss that much?

Well, you missed it. You weren't here for it. Not saying it was worth missing, but you were not here. It took place in your absence. That's what I'm trying to say. We're not going to dig too deeply into England because they're playing again Monday night. So by the time many people listen to this podcast, they will have played a second game against Latvia. They beat Albania, of course, 2-0 on Friday night at Wembley. Reasonably underwhelming because it was perhaps always likely to be

What about your article on Dan Byrne? What about it? You gave him an unnecessary kicking. I've got to say, I thought that was deeply unfair. First of all, about a year ago, when I suggested him getting in the squad, you nearly fell off your chair.

He didn't speak to me for a month. Yeah, I did take the mickey out of you for that. Although you want him to play at left-back, though, let's be clear. You propose that he would play at left-back. Well, I said that that was an option. And Miles Lewis-Skelly now has come through, but he wasn't there a year ago. But no, the guys had to... Matt, just put yourself in Dan Byrne's boots for a second. Both my feet in one of his boots. Yeah, man.

But put yourself in his boot. The guy's probably had the best week of his life.

He's had the best week of his life, you know, goal, you know, winning the Carabao Cup, scoring in the Cup final, getting the England call-up, starting, getting a start and lovely week. And then you're putting this at the... So because of all that, therefore, I'm obligated to write a piece about how amazing his performance was, even though it wasn't.

Is that how this works? Guy gets first call up, therefore cannot be criticised or analysed in an objective, professional way. But were you looking for that? No. I wrote a piece about Dan Byrne on Friday night and essentially to praise see the piece, which I think a lot of Newcastle fans who were whamming me on Twitter clearly haven't read it. I didn't see that. Well, there was actually one guy on...

There's actually one guy on X who actually says, one of his mates says, oh, what's he saying, mate? I didn't read his drivel. I just read the headline. Oh, right. Okay. So that's the level of what we're dealing with here. Essentially, Dan Byrne had a perfectly okay night. Lots of people got carried away with the fact that he made lots of passes, which he did. And they had lots of the ball, which he did. Most of those passes came under absolutely zero pressure. Yeah.

with Albania sitting deep in their own half and he did Dan Byrne did lots of nuts and bolts of his job really really well as you would expect him to do which I said and he almost scored head of the corner against the bar in the second half however he did get turned a few times he got left for dead on the floor a few times and my point in my piece was only that that maybe took a bit of an

edge of the night and does raise a question about whether he really is an international quality centre-half. Lots of Newcastle fans have got very, very cross about this.

and lots of name calling on my social media. But let me read something that somebody said about Dan, Dan Byrne's performance. In fact, this is what Dan Byrne said about Dan Byrne's performance to the Newcastle Chronicle, his local newspaper. The second half, I tied a little bit. So my performance dipped a little bit. So I was disappointed. That's Dan Byrne talking about his own performance.

So is that okay for Dan Byrne to say that he didn't think he played amazingly? Is that okay? Or should we wham him as well? Should we wham Dan Byrne for criticising Dan Byrne? Well, I mean, Dan should have thought that he'd had a really good week and scored the winner in the Carabao Cup final, won the Carabao Cup and, you know, should have gone a little bit easier on himself than that, as you should have done.

So Dan Burton, so you're now going back to the original point, which is I should be nice about Dan Burton because it's a nice story and not watch how he played. Anyway, fair play to Dan Burton. This was actually one of his full quotes to Lee Ryder of the Newcastle Chronicle. And this makes me happy for him. I am happy for him. We're all happy for him. Dan Burton said, it's lit a fire in me to want to carry on, to make it to other camps and hopefully get to the World Cup.

It's been a really good thing. I didn't feel out of place or out of my depth. I was worried in training that I would feel that way. But as soon as I got my first training session over with, it gave me confidence that I could do it. Now, that's a lovely quote. And that does actually play to the human side of professional sport in that even at the age of 32, an experienced professional like Dan Byrne can rock up at an England camp feeling a little bit nervous and

And it just shows that these guys, you know, these guys do have emotions and doubts and worries just like the rest of us. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So he was the oldest. Was he the oldest debutant, I think, in England? Don't ask me questions that I can't answer. I think he was. I hate it when you do that.

His whole story is a great story. I do take the wider point that, you know, looking forward or looking ahead to the World Cup, you look at that back four. And the one thing about Thomas Tuchel, which I think we all think, he doesn't have too much time to experiment. And that back four, Walker, Konza, Byrne and Lewis Skelly, I mean, that cannot be the back four, which...

England starting the World Cup can it? That's kind of a wider point and I touched on it last week with Jack Gawne Jack had been to the England media day at St George's Park and Dan Byrne had spoken and spoken very well and very eloquently and passionately and I put it to Jack last week and

I wasn't sure that Dan Byrne's inclusion, despite being a lovely story, was something to get that excited about, given that we need an absolute elite back four to win a World Cup. And as you just said there, Chris, I'm not sure if that is. We've got players to come back, of course. So let's see. Let's see what happens. Thomas Tuchel has been a little bit critical in his own...

kind of laconic, vaguely charming way of Gareth Southgate and some of the things that he saw in England's performances in the European Championships last summer. I think he's a little bit, I've said this and I've written this, I think it's a little bit easy for Thomas to say that. He's not walked in Gareth's shoes. He's not brought, he didn't inherit an England squad that was on its arse like the one that Gareth brought

inherited, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. However, if there was one thing that I'm still a little bit regretful about is that we did have that awful Nations League season

campaign under Gareth a couple of years ago, which saw us relegated from the top pool. I'm only mentioning it because last night, Sunday night, the teams who've qualified from the top of the top pool of the Nations League were playing the

their quarterfinal games and look at these for games. France beat Croatia on penalties. Germany beat Italy 5-4 after a three-all draw. Portugal thrashed Denmark despite Cristiano Ronaldo missing a penalty. Spain beat the Netherlands on penalties after drawing three-all on the night and five-all on aggregate. Four cracking ties. The semi-finals of the Nations League will be played in Germany in June. My point is,

Wouldn't it have been marvellous for Thomas Tuchel's team to be putting themselves up against those teams at the start of Thomas's reign, rather than kind of wading through the quicksand of mundane qualifiers against Albania and Latvia that obviously tell us very little about what stage in their development they're actually at.

Yeah, in a nutshell, would it have been a better test for England to go up against one of the more established nations and a better level of opposition? Yes, but I mean, you can't, you know, we can't sort of, you are blaming Gareth. No, I'm not. I'm just saying it's a shame. Well, yeah, but it is what it is, isn't it? And, you know, the fixture's...

are what they are. Albania were at the Euros and, you know, I don't think that was ever going to be the greatest test. And that's why, you know, we don't know what we've really learned from, you know, you mentioned Dan Byrne, but you look at the performances of the players and how much can we gauge from that game and about how they performed and what have you because the test wasn't there. But that essentially is the case, isn't it, in most of the sort of

the World Cup qualifiers, which will come around. And the way that we always judge England is when they play, you know, the tougher nations, right?

after a round or two in a major tournament. And that always proves difficult. And that's the conundrum which Tuchel has to deal with. But he knew that anyway. Yeah, and all I'm saying is that Gareth gets criticised for a lot of things which I think are unjustified. We've talked about it before. But actually that's, it seems ages ago now, but that summer when we had that disastrous Nations League campaign and losing to Hungary and Germany

Germany and people like that. And that was what got us relegated into Pool B for which we only just got promoted again, just about under Lee Carsley. And that's led to this. That's my only point. That's actually the one really poor run of fixtures that Gareth had.

And it's strange how a couple of years down the line, you're still kind of feeling the aftershock of it, that's all. Because I do worry about getting to America in the summer of 2026 with no real preparation under our belt. I really do. On the flip side of that, Ian, though. I really do worry about that.

On the flip side of that, imagine had England first game, for example, under Tuchel come up against Spain and England end up losing to Spain. What was the reaction of being towards Thomas Tuchel then? Yeah, fair point. But that's international management. That's international management. It's easy to say that. That's being the England manager.

That's what he's here for. He's here to win those big games. And if he can't win those big games, then he'll prove himself no better than the fellas he's been before. Those are the games he's got to win. All I'm saying is, and like it or not, because there's a German in charge of the England team, had he been up against Spain or France or Germany, whoever, you know, big nation in his first game and lost, he would have been absolutely walloped, panned, doubted.

I'm speaking personally as someone who covers England. My interpretation and analysis of Thomas Tuchel's England performances will have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he's German.

Okay. And I'm not saying that, but, but then, but then there's also, you know, the fact that there would have been in certain quarters, a lot of criticism because of that. And we can't get away from that. But that's what will come next summer. So I keep saying next summer, 2026, I'm even going to say next summer. That's what that will be about. And he's only got an 18 month contract. That's what it's all about. Beating the, beating some of those nations that you've, that you have just mentioned. And, um,

It is easy for him to sit here and talk about his brave new world and the things he wants to do and the things that Gareth Southgate did not do when you are facing what are essentially, from a sporting point of view, a bunch of free hits. I know you hate that term, a bunch of free hits against teams that England will beat. Latvia, who they play on Monday night, are ranked 140th in the world. England will win that game. They would win that game if they played you at centre-half.

And that's the problem. And that's the problem. And that's the wider point that I make. Just on the Gareth Sykes-gate criticism,

I mean, my view on it was, and I still don't quite understand. I mean, he's a clever bloke, very, very clever, very sharp, very charming sort of Thomas Tuchel is. But why did he even get involved in that? He could have played that a totally different way. I thought that that was a really unnecessary opportunity

attack on Gareth Southgate. I don't read it as an attack on Gareth. Thomas Tuchel is clearly, and he was like this when he was at Chelsea. He was like this when he was at Chelsea. He's a chap who, when asked questions, provides answers. Sometimes, like Friday night after the game,

after the Albania game, 2-0, it was fine. They won the game. They didn't excite anybody, but they won the game. That's all they had to do. And Thomas comes out afterwards and is critical of Rashford and Foden. Now, I asked him when I saw him on Sunday,

at Tottenham's training ground where England were doing their media ahead of the Latvian game, I asked Tuchel whether he thought it was clever to criticise players who you aren't going to see again until June. I said it's different to being a club manager when you can criticise a player knowing that

that on Monday you're going to see him again at training and you can put your arm around him and then you can pick him again on the Wednesday for the next game and he'll score a goal and everybody moves on. And it's just slightly different to international management. You criticise Foden, Rashford or anybody and that player could then go back to his club and that little...

that little nugget of criticism could whirl around his brain until June. I put that to Tom and he's just like, I just say what I feel. I'd already told him in private what I thought. There's no problem saying it in public. I think it's just the way it works.

Could get him into a pickle, could get him into a pickle further down the line when there's more pressure on and there are bigger issues at play. Sometimes it doesn't pay to be honest as a manager, especially an England manager. Sometimes it pays to be, to obfuscate a little bit, if that's the right word, or to run around the houses a little bit rather than go right to the centre of topics. But that is the way that he's doing it so far. And it'd be interesting to see if it carries on.

Yeah, and I think that is interesting. And, you know, this sort of approach that you treat every player the same and he wouldn't have gotten to know every player and their sort of character inside out. I always felt from playing within a dressing room, players all have different...

characters and in terms of criticism some players can take it some players have a really thin skin so I actually think it's important for managers to treat have that understanding of the player and how is it a complex how they take things and I always felt and Mark O'Neill was pretty good at it you do have to treat players differently every player differently and

because it's all about getting the greatest impact when they cross that white line and get out on the field and play. And some players, some players will be able to take it, will have that really thick skin. Any sort of criticism, it'll wash over them, but there will be others who it may affect. So it's okay having this sort of bullish approach and I'll, you know, not,

not shoot from the hip is wrong, but just be honest in everything that I say. And that's the way I am. I'm not so sure it's the best way to go about things. Yeah. I think sometimes, especially as an England manager, you do have to take a deep breath and,

before you think about what exactly is it you want to say. Tuchel did say on Sunday that one of the reasons that he'd asked Phil Foden into the England squad, despite his poor form at Man City, was to show him a little bit of love, was to kind of get his confidence up a little bit. So I kind of understand that as a tactic, but then to be critical of his performance probably evens up the balance of that a little bit. Be interesting to see how Foden, Rashford and others

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Anyway, we'll see what happens with Thomas Tuchel's England going forward. Back to Premier League stuff now. I'll turn to Premier League stuff now. Great week for Newcastle, Cowboy Cup win, etc. A little bit of back and forth on social media over the weekend between Eddie Howe's predecessor, Steve Bruce, and the former Newcastle forward, Dwight...

He didn't, like, perhaps spend enough time on working on a lot of things with us. I think he was trying to go game by game rather than perhaps develop on us as a team. Right.

obviously when the Saudi owners came in he stuck his boots on and a whistle and it's like he was like if I'm going then I'm going to run you into the ground or something like that so we're doing some running drills and he's just run us and he's blowing his whistle and he's just like making it into a little bit of a joke and stuff he's like they're over there watching me So that was Dwight Gale and Steve Bruce I'm Steve Bruce of course currently managing his 13th club Blackpool erm

in League One and BBC Radio Lancashire took the opportunity to ask Steve what he thought of that after their game at the weekend Is that the legendary Dwight Gale who missed the chance in the quarter final against Manchester City is that the same Dwight Gale? Okay

Interesting. I've been around the block a long, long time. I've only managed 1,050 games, but according to Dwight, I don't know what I'm doing. Chris, sometimes when these things happen, it's wise to advise people to maybe rise above it and say nothing. But Steve has spoken from the heart there. It clearly has pricked him a little bit, those comments from Dwight Gale. I have a view, but I'm interested to know what you make of that, first of all.

I think Steve Bruce's defence is a very strong defence. I think he's right. Steve Bruce has managed over a thousand games. That's not an easy thing to do. He must have something about him. I played under Steve at Birmingham City.

And Steve Bruce did get on the training ground at Birmingham City and coach. We had Eric Black as our coach as well. He was out there. And

You know, he may not be what I would describe as a totally sort of hands-on coach and do every session. You know, and he clearly didn't at Newcastle. But you can look through many managers in the past. Was Sir Alex Ferguson always out there on the training ground? Martin O'Neill wasn't always out there. But that doesn't mean that he didn't, you know...

didn't delegate and, you know, tell the coaches what particular sessions that they would want on. It's on them. It's their responsibility. So I find, I find sort of when, when, when ex-players turn around and, you know, criticise managers for that, I think that's,

sometimes a a really cheap shot and that that's the way it felt for uh you know dwight dwight gale there's been this perception of steve bruce at newcastle some of it may be fair some of it may be unfair but i think if you look at steve bruce's track record in management he's had a a phenomenal managerial career um you know managed so many different clubs and there would be a lot of

you know, coaches starting off in the game who would, who would love to even have half Steve Bruce's career. So, you know, all these people who keep employing him, Steve Bruce, they all can't be wrong, can they? Yeah, Blackpool 10th in League One at the moment. Um,

Yeah, it's interesting you used the word cheap. That's kind of, that's what I felt. It's a word that sprang to mind with me as well. I do wonder whether sometimes, especially on podcasts and things, when players are feeling relaxed, I wonder if sometimes they maybe end up going down alleys that they wouldn't choose to if they could sit and reflect on it. I don't know what Dwight Gale thinks about what he said and the fuss that it subsequently caused. What I do see, especially on social media, is a bit of a pile on now on Steve Bruce from Newcastle fans taking the opportunity to

to kick him a little bit. Look, Steve's time at Newcastle is what it was. He, you know, our Newcastle correspondent and chief football reporter, Craig Hope, didn't have much time for Steve at all. Constantly called him out for what he thought was

poor tactics and poor management, et cetera. And that's absolutely Craig's prerogative to do so, did it in a professional way. That was Craig's view and he stuck with it. And I'm sure he looks back now and argues that he was right. But now that all the dust has settled and Newcastle are in a good place, a fantastic place under Eddie Howe, and that Steve has moved on, I don't,

It disappoints me that there's an appetite from some Newcastle fans still to go back and put the boot in because I don't really think it's necessary. I don't think anybody could really argue that Steve wasn't doing what he thought was the best for the football club or cared for the football club

it didn't work out for him. I don't think anybody can argue that he did an amazing job or the job that maybe he would have wanted to do. But you could say that about many managers. I don't really see why it's necessary now to go back and rake over the coals of what he did or didn't do on the training field. No, I totally agree with that. And these things, when they're played out in public and Steve Bruce coming back at Dwight Gale, I think, you know, with his comment on Dwight Gale,

I think Steve is in a position where he's a guy who I've always had the utmost respect for. I did when I played against him and I look at his managerial career and I understand what happened at Newcastle like you do. Sometimes it just doesn't work out for many reasons and it didn't work out. But then there's an unwritten sort of...

rule, but things should...

stay in the dressing room what goes on in the dressing room in that respect I've always felt you know should stay in the dressing room I'm not you know I wasn't a great fan of Gordon Strachan personally but as a coach I really you know respect you know what he's done and is in his managerial and coaching career he's not you know he's not my cup of tea as a guy but I think that you know it's easy to turn around for ex-players and

sort of shoot from the hip about managers and the way that they you know they coach and the way that they act uh but i thought that this was he didn't go into too much detail other than they get bringing the old uh was it the the uh the running sessions out you know going out with a whistle and and running and that may may have been you know may have been true it may have not been true i don't i don't really know but uh no that seemed that seemed really cheap

Anyway, let us know what you think. Whose side are you on? Steve Bruce or Dwight Gale? Also, whose side are you on? Dan Byrne or Ian Laidman? Or Ian Laidman and the Newcastle fan base in terms of Dan Byrne's debut performance for England? Is Thomas Tuchel right to rake over the coals of the Gower Southgate era as England manager? Or should he be focusing only on...

on the future let us know you never would have done that when this pod would have started calling yourself ian ladyman you know we all i mean this it's remarkable we all change and grow don't we just some of us in the wrong direction um you know where you can find us you can come to apple podcast or spotify wherever it is you get your podcast um you can leave um

your views and your comments there. And while you're at it, please do leave us a five-star review and hit the follow button and tell your friends about us. Sticking briefly, you've got a bit of a follow there into Scottish football. Terrible weekend or terrible night for Steve Clarke in Scotland. Lost 3-0 at home to Greece in the Nations League.

Let's not linger too much on this topic because we've done it before, but it's so difficult to manage that team. Steve Clarke is taking Scotland to two Euros finals, yet there will be many Scottish fans out there who see him as a failure and think he should go. I just wonder if that is the impossible job. People say the England manager is the impossible job. I don't think it's hard as managing Scotland. Well, who, I don't know, one Scottish fan who thinks Steve Clarke is a failure? Yeah.

Good. I'm glad about that. I'm obviously seeing stuff on social media from people who aren't Scottish then.

Is that all you do? Just trawl through Twitter, which is so, or X, which is so toxic and just look for comments on that. I can't go to Scotland and ask people. They only lost like 24 hours ago. What do you want me to do? You've got to gauge opinion somewhere. They were booed off. There were some decisions which I found odd, leaving Keira and Tierney on the bench, being one of them.

Grant Hanley starting, and I've got a lot of time for Grant Hanley. I like him as a, you know, I think he's had an excellent career, but I think he's run his race in terms of that. Look, I don't think it's the worst thing what's happened to Scotland. You said earlier about England and because of under Gareth Southgate being in the, you know, one of the lower tiers in the Nations League. I actually think that...

that with Scotland it's not the worst thing for them to drop down a level. And I find all these things really complicated. I think they will have a better chance. You can tell me I'm wrong on this. I think they will have a better chance –

if they do go down to the, do go down a level in the nation's league of, of qualifying for the world cup, if they don't do group stage, I think I'm right in saying that. So why, why wouldn't that be a good thing? And also bottom line is, is would it, you know, is it a good thing? And this isn't being patronizing in, in any way, but if you, you know, the argument with England is, is not getting tested enough and,

But for Scotland, is it that if they are in the higher tier and taking walloping after walloping against your France's, Germany's, whoever, you know, can that have a detrimental sort of impact on the confidence of the team? So there are two sides to that, I think. Yeah, it depends whether you think that playing against that level of opposition will improve plays, et cetera. But I absolutely take your point. Wales...

Wales happily are on the other side of the equation under Craig Bellamy. Unbeaten in his first seven games, Bellamy, the new Wales manager, they beat Kazakhstan 3-1 the other night and play North Macedonia in World Cup qualifying on Tuesday evening. And this, of course, is a Wales team without Bale, without Ramsey, and indeed the other night without Joe Allen, who was on the bench earlier.

Wales have written some great stories in the past few years, especially under people like Chris Coleman and Robert Page, but they have always had those star names driving those performances on. Bellamy, of course, is now doing it without them. And I do think that if he were to take Wales to the World Cup, and we are a long way from that yet, if he were to take Wales to the World Cup, that would probably outstrip

any of those achievements, which I know is a bold statement, but it feels like a new dawn for Wales. And if it's a bright one, then it will be down to Bellamy.

Yeah, and I played with Craig pretty well. My dad used to coach Craig back in the day when he first started off at Norwich City. So, yeah, I'm delighted for him. I think he's got a – I always felt he had an outstanding football brain as a player. He sometimes ruffled a few feathers sometimes.

Understatement. And we know that. Yeah. And, you know, he's gone into coaching and he's worked hard at his coaching and this opportunity has arisen. And I think people are quite excited about the way that his Welsh team are playing. I saw him actually at the World Cup qualifying group draw in Zurich in December. I was there because it was the first chance we had to speak to him.

to Thomas Tuchel, who was attending the draw. And Craig was attending the draw with the Welsh FA, obviously. And we saw him, a couple of us, as he was leaving the draw to get in a people carrier to get him back to the airport. And he just stopped for a chat. He was on really good form. And he said a couple of things. The first thing he said was, he said, it makes you realise how big the England team is. He said, just the number of media from around Europe that were following Thomas Tuchel around.

And I said, well, you know, it is the first time we've spoken. It won't always be like this, Craig. He was saying, yeah, but he said, just remind you that, you know, England is such an enormous thing in many ways. And then with a little glint in his eye, he said, blimey. He said, I like Thomas Tuchel. He said, I think it's a great appointment. I said, but imagine if he wins the World Cup. Imagine if he wins the World Cup and you lot for the rest of time will have to concede the...

that the only way he could win a World Cup was to get a foreigner to do it. He was joking, but it was funny. And with that, he jumped into his van and off he went. Off he went to the airport. Sorry? A van? Well, people carry. He jumped into a van? Well, he had his staff with him. There's a bit of...

To me, it's a van. I'm for Wigan. A van's a van. Call it a people car if you want, but a van's a van. A van's a van. Right, quickly, moments of the weekend. Come on, you first. Well, I struggled a little bit. Speaking on Broadway, of course, was a great thing. Speak at that kebab shop on Broadway. Yeah. It's amazing how many people you can get into a burger bar.

Insult after insult today. Speaking about yourself in the third person. That's one of my favourite moments on this podcast. Never mind, moment of the weekend. Blimey, talk about eating yourself. My moment of the weekend would be fair play to Robbie Savage, actually, and Macclesfield FC.

Yes, they had the biggest budget in the Northern Premier League. We know that and I'd laugh and poke him for that. I do really know how much he cares about the club, how invested he is.

And the pressure which he's put himself under as manager, he kicks every ball, he heads every ball. He is mad about the club. And I do really admire the job that he's done. He sacked all the previous managers as director of football, by the way, to get into the job.

But all joking aside, they have strolled the Northern Premier League. I think there's something like 19 points clear of... Promoted with six games to spare. Yeah, works up. I mean, that's some achievement. And, you know, people have their own view on Robbie and I get that. And he's like Marmite. He is. And I understand that. And we have a sort of back and forth. But fair play to him. I think that he's done a brilliant job. And...

And yeah, I mean, good luck to him and, and, and Macclesfield next season, if he's still at Macclesfield. Yeah. I'm, I'm fond of, of Robbie too. And as I've said before on this podcast, a much better footballer than some people give him credit for. So well done Robbie. Yes he was, yeah. Well done Robbie. Well done Macclesfield FC.

my moment with the weekend actually comes from further down the pyramid as well. There's a couple here. Mark Hughes, Carlisle team beat Bromley 2-1 at the weekend. Carlisle, of course, rock bottom of League Two when Sparky decided to give it one more chance

turn of the wheel as a manager. He's gone up to Cumbia to try and drag them out of the cart. They're still bottom. They're still seven points adrift, but they have got a game in hand on Tranmere and they won at home at the weekend. And I saw a clip again on social media of Mark celebrating with the crowd afterwards. Let's just say that he seems fully invested in Cumbia.

that project Mark and Glyn Hodges up there at Bunton Park doing what they can to beat the drop and staying in that division but at the top end of that division Bradford City sold their tickets at £5 a go

on Saturday for their top end of the league clash at home with Colchester. They were rewarded with a crowd of 23,381 to see them beat Colchester 4-1 and they remain second and full steam ahead for promotion. We've talked about it before Chris on this podcast the power of

of the pyramid, the depth of feeling, support, passion and commitment that exists further down the pyramid. And I don't care if you've got to give your tickets away for a fiver. If you can get 23,000 through the gate in a place like Bradford, when you've got Leeds up the road, you've got the big Manchester clubs not far away, all the football on the television, England playing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, rugby league in that area as well. If you can get that time at

kind of gate then you are absolutely doing something right. Bradford City remember in the Premier League I played against them in the Premier League not so long ago but they've always had a strong fan base but I've got to say that I didn't know that 23,000 in at

And they get 15, 16, 17,000 all the time. Like you say, they've got a strong fan base. It's not as though they normally get in 5,000, but they've added 6, 7,000 on and they've been rewarded with a thumping victory. Okay, mate, look, it's great to see you again. That just about wraps us up. We'll be back on Thursday as we start to look ahead of FA Cup weekend, actually. Not yet a return to the Premier League. FA Cup weekend quarterfinals coming up. Looking forward to those. Are you going? I'm going to...

Preston versus Aston Villa. Have you got one in your diary? Um, no, I'm, I'm up north at the weekend. Yes. Back up north again, up into Scotland. Great to spend time with you, Ian Ladyman again. Yes. This is me, Ian Ladyman, and the other chap who does this podcast. Thanks for doing this, everybody. You know where you can find us. Um, if you do one thing for us today, it is this. Go to, uh,

Go get your phone out. Wherever it is you get your podcast, find that follow button. Apple, Spotify. You know what I'm saying. Follow, follow, follow. It's really important. I am Ian Ladyman, the chap still getting over his New York jet lag as Chris Sutton. You are Ian Ladyman. This has been It's All Kicking Off.