This City team in its current guise is DONE and Pep has been 'sleeping on the job!'
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Hello, this is your It's All Kicking Off weekend preview show. Hope everyone is well. It's frosty again in Manchester and we've made a start on the Christmas decorations. No Christmas card from Ed Sheeran yet, mind. And no Chris Sutton either today. His travel arrangements have precluded him from joining us. But worry not, the quality of this podcast will not be diminished. And that's because Craig Hope is here.

Craig, as many of you will know, is one of our senior football writers, part of our England team and, of course, number one for football in the northeast of England. Handy player back in his day too. He's been warming up for this one overnight and he may just have a thing or two to say about Jude Bellingham. But we will get to that. Right, it's Liverpool versus Manchester City at Anfield on Sunday night.

City are in a right old mess and Liverpool are not. Craig, if Liverpool win this, they will be 11 points clear of Pep Guardiola's team. That's the type of thing that would have been in brackets in the old viddy printer days. 11 points clear of Pep Guardiola's team. Would City's dream of five titles in a row be over if that were to come to pass?

11 points clear. I remember all too well a team who were once 12 points clear and didn't win the Premier League title. Let's not forget Nicosia United in 95-96. But to answer the question Ian, will that be their title challenge this season over? Yes, it will. And I'm prepared to commit to that. I listened to a pundit who shall remain nameless earlier in the week.

reverting to what I thought was a load of cliche. Never write Manchester City off. They aren't done. They have a blip every November. Expect Manchester City to come again. I'm sorry, no, this is more than a blip. A blip is what they had last November. They went four without a win last November and they drew three of those games and lost one and they subsequently came back over Christmas into the new year to win whatever it was, 12 on the spin. Trust me, this won't happen this time. It's not a blip. There's too big a body of evidence behind it.

Believe your eyes. Don't look at numbers and what you believe to be true about this being Manchester City, this being Pep Guardiola. Just watch what you're seeing. This team, in its current guise, its current version, I think they're done. I really do. And I think Pep Guardiola has been caught sleeping on the job. And this is catching up with them now. We were at the Euros in the summer, and the player who's been so key to what Manchester City do and how they operate is Kyle Walker. We were sat there in press boxes saying, this guy is just...

He's gone. And listen, when it comes to you, it can come to you fairly quick. Quick being the operative word with Kyle Walker. That speed, that pace, it isn't there anymore. And because of that, he seems to be questioning everything else about his game. We said at the Euros, he shouldn't actually have been playing for England, really. You know, they should have played Trent Alexander-Arnold

at right back. He is just one example. Now, if this was Manchester City going through even this run of results and they had Rodri there and they had a prime Kevin De Bruyne, I might be tempted to agree with what I would call a lazy pundit earlier in the week and say, you know what, actually they probably will come again. Rodri isn't there.

The Kevin De Bruyne who bailed them out isn't there. The Phil Foden who was player of the season, I'm sorry, he's not there either. On the back of a really poor Euros, he's come into this season and it's been much of the same. Jack Grealish we've spoken about is not the player he was. This version of him, I just don't like.

Who else is there? There's Guardiola, who there's always been the suspicion that he can't defend. Now, when City are playing well, and Guardiola's scoring goals, and he hasn't got much defending to do, he looks wonderful. He now is being exposed. The goalkeeper, a former player, sent me a montage the day of Edison. He's had a been his bonnet about Edison for a long time now. He said, actually, he's not that good. Look at the clips. Now he's having to be a

goalkeeper rather than a sweeper keeper he's not looking very good either so i'm going through the team here with all of these key players this is before we get to whirling harland who i've actually got a little bit of sympathy for to a degree but the other said i can't make an argument for manchester city snapping out of this and coming back and to come back to the point i made i do think as a club and as a manager they've been caught sleeping here because too many of their players

They've just gone the wrong side of their peak and they haven't refreshed with good enough in the right areas. You look at Savino and Doku who came in. They're very good, but I don't look at them and see Manchester City players, really. I just don't. And to that end, to come back full circle and answer your question, Manchester City's title challenge will be done if they lose on Sunday. They will lose on Sunday. And I'll go as far as to say, I don't think they'll finish in the top two.

Well, that's a pretty comprehensive verdict, Craig. I think I might send that footage to Chris and just say, look, this is how you rinse a football team, Chris. If you want to do it, that's the way to do it. But I'm not going to argue with much of what you say, Craig, to be honest. You make some very, very salient points. The DocuSavino thing, all I say about that is that City kind of like to sign players who,

become Manchester City players once Pep Guardiola's had hold of them for a couple of seasons. However, I think what's happened is that some of the players who you would expect to be carrying the load while Doku and Savino and some of the young players coming through are built into City players or not carrying that load. You've just mentioned some of them there. I don't need to mention them again.

What really, really struck a chord with me before City played Feyenoord in the Champions League on Tuesday, obviously tossed away a three goal lead to draw 3-0, were the comments of Kevin De Bruyne. Because we know about Kyle Walker, we've talked about it before, and that has shocked me this season, what's happened to him, despite what we saw in the Euros.

But De Bruyne spoke on Monday as though he felt he's heading over the hill as well. And it's very unusual to hear people at Manchester City talk in this rather woe-is-me way. In fact, they never do it. They never do it. The whole...

that always comes out of a champion club like City is no drama, nothing to see here, we'll be fine. All this talk of crisis is all in your minds. Well, we've now got a player like De Bruyne talking about tiredness and the desperate struggle he's had against injuries and the doubt he has in his mind about his own capacity to recover, to return to what he once was. And then we have Guardiola post-match

looking as though he's walked into, not just walked into a door, but spent 10 minutes in a revolving door, talking about the effect, the toll that the whole thing is taking on him. So it is a most unusual position for Manchester City to find themselves in.

The one thing I'll say is that they are about to take on a team on Sunday who will either be absolutely invigorated by that incredible performance against Real Madrid in the Champions League on Wednesday night, or...

might possibly find that their adrenaline levels have spiked in that game and might head into Sunday on a little bit of a comedown. But I'm talking like a Manchester City fan might talk if they're clutching at straws. What I will say is that I have been saying on this podcast for most of the season that I think Liverpool

being in a little bit of a false position at the top of the Premier League in terms, I haven't always seen the consistent quality in their play to essentially warrant that big lead that they've got. However, and Chris would now be making his sound of a reversing bin lorry that he likes to make, I am going to have to revise this opinion if they carry on playing like they did last night. This was a comment left for...

Ours by Christian Sylvester on Spotify. And he asked, is Ian waiting until Liverpool play someone above them in the league before admitting?

there any good we take his point after this Real Madrid performance I think Craig don't we yeah and you watched that game last night as well and I watched it with my eight-year-old boy and we loved it it was a fantastic game you know there's much being said about this format of the of the competition I'm not particularly a fan of it I was a fan of that game last night I was a fan of it because of Liverpool and there's one point sat on the sofa and when Conor Bradley

makes that challenge on killing Mbappe if that doesn't end up on a mural on a wall on Merseyside that image of him putting killing Mbappe up in the air and Conor Bradley is a fantastic example because this comes back to when this speaks he's a right back it speaks to the point about Manchester City and the decline of Kyle Walker Liverpool now for me you've got two right backs who are better than Manchester City's first choice Conor Bradley and Trent Alexander-Arnold coming back in you look at Liverpool

And they've almost now got that perfect blend of young players who actually are stepping up, you know, and look as if they can handle this arena and are kicking on. And they're a good age, 21, 22, 23. By that, I mean the likes of Bradley and Curtis Jones, who I thought was magnificent again last night. They've got players in the peak, at the peak of the powers as well. You know, they've got that sweet spot, Shlaba Zlai, Diaz, and others, Gravenbach, who are in their mid-20s. And they've then got the guys who have gone the...

what we call the wrong side of 30, who look as if they've actually gone the right side of 30. Van Dijk, Mo Salah. The problem with Mo Salah's contract, I don't know if we're going to talk about this, but when Liverpool gave Mo Salah that contract, he was supposed to follow the expected footballing norm of getting to 33, which he will be when the contract expires, and not be as good as what he was at the onset of the contract rewards.

Now, he's booking the trend because not only is he not on the decline, it looks as if he's actually getting better and he's finding a way to use his skill set and his powers to impact more and to impact at the right moments. He's quite incredible. And that has actually given Liverpool a little bit of a problem because I think if Salah had been the player we probably expected him to be at the age of 33, like most footballers are, there wouldn't have been this noise around it. The problem is, and it's a nice problem to have, most Salah is brilliant and he's getting better. Sorry, Ian.

That's a really good point. However, I would say that even though they would have expected him to be on the wane a little bit by now, there's still no excuse for him to have allowed him to get to this point where they lose him for nothing. Because even Mo Salah post-peak,

if he had a year left on his contract and thought, right, it's time for him to go, you know, you get 15 million quid for him or something, whereas they're going to lose him for nothing. Well, they could lose him for nothing. And I have to say, I did think, obviously, all the fuss made about what Mo said after the game against Southampton on Sunday, talking about no contract offer, et cetera, and the way he put himself front and centre of the news coverage this week.

that was not a great look to then scuff that penalty as though he'd never taken one before. Go on, Craig. So on that, it's being said that from an economic standpoint, Liverpool are going to miss out again if they weren't going to renew his contract. They should have cashed in and got the money from last summer or whenever it was the previous January. Well, why? You know,

Mo Salah is still here at the end of this season. And if he actually ends up leaving on a free transfer, OK, they're probably going to forego the 15, 20, 30, 40 million pound, whatever it might be for a 33-year-old. But if he delivers the title in his final season, surely it was the right decision to keep him at the club and not sell him in the January when they had the chance for him to go to Saudi Arabia. So for me, yes, they're going to miss out on...

on that pot of money that they should have safeguarded themselves against for a player of his ability. But if his last season ends in him winning the Premier League and taking them to a Champions League final, whatever it may be, it's not the end of the world. Everyone's coverage this week for me has been a little bit...

they've missed the point. Mo Salah's still there. He's still a Liverpool player. He's still a Liverpool player for the next five months just because he hasn't signed this contract or they're not giving him a new contract doesn't mean he goes in January. It doesn't mean he goes this week. If he's still there, he'll may enjoy it and make the most of him in the isolation of this season. That would be my point. Now, very quickly, I think if Manchester City are to get anything on Sunday, they'll need a huge drop-off from Liverpool.

and they'll need a goal from Erling Haaland. I was with a couple of pals of mine having a drink at the end of last week,

time served Manchester City fans, a mate of mine and his dad, dad's 89, that's how long he's been watching Manchester City. And I was astonished at how critical they were being of Erling Haaland. You know, these are guys who've been watching City for decades and they were talking to me about Haaland, a guy who's got 75 goals in 74 Premier League starts for City. Tell me,

saying to me, oh, he only scores against the poor teams. He's a flat track bully. He doesn't score the first goals in games like Sergio Aguero used to. He scores the decorative goals. I was taken aback by it, but they're not alone. There is a bit of a narrative around Haaland of being someone who delivers, but doesn't always deliver when you absolutely need him. And playing to that is a fact he's only ever scored one goal against Liverpool.

Yeah, and something I would say on this, Ian, is your note. You never really seems to score at three o'clock on a Saturday, right?

That's almost his domain. And invariably, when Manchester City are playing at three o'clock on a Saturday, it's because they haven't been picked for a television game because they're not up against one of the bigger boys. He's made that domain his own. He'll be off covering a game somewhere and it'll come through. Erling Haaland scored another two goals, another three goals, four, whatever it may be. And they'll be at home to Fulham. They'll be at home to Brentford. And I agree. I understand that. It was an interesting little vignette you painted there with regards to Manchester City supporters in the pub because ultimately,

I always say this, you only have a true feel for a player in the strengths and the weaknesses when you watch them every week and you've got that real vested interest in them. So if those guys are saying that, I pretend that they agree and I actually support the suspicions I've had about them for a while now. Now, he comes back and he answers that with goals. And I said earlier on the show, I've got a little bit of sympathy with him because I do believe...

those around him are starting to malfunction a little bit now but the very best players those who have got that individual ability and that capability and strikers can be this not just midfielders to grab a game by the scruff of the neck and impact their own destiny I

I don't necessarily think he's got that. Whereas a Sergio Aguero, he did have that. I think Haaland is the guy who was at the end of something which the team produces and puts the ball in the back of the net and does it very well. Better than most. He's been referred to as that cheat code at times. But I don't think he's a cheat code in that if the team's playing badly...

He can just then go and do something, get the ball, beat two or three. And, you know, I don't think he's that player. I think that talks to what your friends were saying as well. And maybe he is, to come back to another phrase, maybe he is a flat track bully. I did ask our friends at Opta for some statistics about who Haaland has scored his 75 Premier League goals against without going through the whole list. He does kind of support the argument to his degree. Eight against Wolves,

seven against West Ham, five against Fulham, five against Palace, five against Forest, six against Man United. We won't make that joke. And like I say, only one against a team like Liverpool. I'm not sure I buy it. That doesn't just kind of support the argument, Ian. It does support the argument. Well, you started this pod by saying, don't look at stats, look at what you see. And what I see when I play, when I see Haaland play,

He's a fabulous, a fabulous... Yeah, okay. He's not multidimensional as a centre-forward, but then for older listeners, Ian Rush wasn't multidimensional either. Garolinica wasn't particularly multidimensional. Haaland's not multidimensional, but...

If I wanted a team, if I was picking a team from the Premier League, one of those composite teams from all the teams in the division, he'd be in it. That's all I'd say. But he hasn't done that well against Virgil van Dijk. We've set that individual battle up many times in the last two or three years. Van Dijk does tend to come out on top. So anyway, look. Just on that, what I'll say is when Manchester City have a bad day,

I think Erling Haaland has a bad day. When Manchester City have a good day, Erling Haaland has a good day.

That's something I've long since thought. It's a fair point. It's a fair point. I used to say about Roy Keane back in the day that you could always guarantee that when everybody else at Manchester United was struggling, because contrary to popular myth, they did have bad days under Alex Ferguson, Roy Keane would always be there dragging him along like a one-man version of a shy horse. And yeah, I take it. Haaland hasn't shown enough of that, perhaps. Woo!

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Two more takeaways from the Liverpool-Madrid game. One of them, I'm

I mentioned killing Mbappe, what dreadful night he had. The only time I saw him was when he was being clattered by Conor Bradley and then he was taking that pretty poor penalty that was saved by a Liverpool goalkeeper. But I want to talk to you, Craig, about Jude Bellingham. Jude wasn't at his best either. He was a

against Liverpool, but we're not going to blame him for that. It was quite a weakened Madrid team. We should make that point. They were missing half a dozen players you might expect to get into that team, Vinny Junior being the most high profile of them. You can't expect Jude Bellingham to stand up

firm against that Anfield tidal wave on his own. But I want to ask you, Craig, about something that Jude said in the build-up to the game. Jude did press duties for UEFA and Madrid ahead of the game, and he was asked about the Euros and what he felt and how he's felt after the Euros and whether he's suffered a bit of a hangover.

and he said an awful lot this is one quote i lost my smile a lot after the euros when it came to playing for england because i felt like i was a little bit mistreated in comparison to what i contributed i felt like some of it was a bit harsh on me i felt i was a bit like the scapegoat maybe i was feeling a little bit sorry for myself

Do you know what, Ian, with this, it's now becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy for Jude Bellingham and for those around him.

They've told themselves for so long now that the media are out to get them. The media equals bad. It's not the case. Going into the Euros, at the point we went to Germany, Jude Bellingham had had nothing but positive coverage. Nothing at all. And we went out there and we were making representations to the FA to speak to him. Not to trip him up, because we wanted to speak to this wonderful young player who we are proud of, who was a tremendous,

representation of English footballers abroad who was going to take us to the Euros and be the player around who we built and played and came back with the trophy. There was nothing but positive noise around him and a real want and a goodwill from our side to engage with him and to show him that we are not bad. And the reason

we had this idea and Jude at this point hadn't really committed these opinions and this expression in public we knew in the background there was this feeling that the player and those around him didn't like us guys basically and had a mistrust of us guys but built on built on what you know all of the evidence there in front of them was positive and the problem Jude has got is that you listen you listen to those around you you listen to your parents and it's almost like

the poor boy for being such an erudite intelligent young man a tremendous young man really it's quite incredible what he's achieved and how he conducts himself but he's got this real blind spot when it comes to the media i don't think it's doing him any good at all this sort of this he's almost developed now a victim complex the reason jude bellingham

had poor coverage, if you want to call it that, during the Euros, was that Jude Bellingham didn't play very well. He existed in moments. Now, did he not play very well because he had this strange, warped idea in the back of his head that people were out to get him when they weren't out to get him? By extension, what he then said on Monday night, I listened to his comments and I thought, goodness, no, stop it. It's nonsense. And he then goes and follows... He's allowed a bad game, but he then went and followed it up with...

performance that wasn't very good. Now, if we write about his performance last night, that he didn't play very well, I don't think he did.

is it then are we victimizing are we targeting them no we're not we're commenting on what you do on a football pitch and i do think we'll aid the player he'll aid the boy the man if he can somehow rid himself of this idea that people are out to get him if you're listening jude all those around you you're not we love you we think you're brilliant engage with us sit down in front of us you might just come away with a different opinion than the one you've currently got

I would say it's not unusual for players to develop. You mentioned that the phrase victim complex, reasonable phrase that. It's not unusual for players to develop things like this over the course of a career, because all careers, whoever you are, will have peaks and troughs and they'll go up and down and stop and start. No one has it all their own way from the age of 18 to the age of 35.

But what alarms me a little bit about Jude is that it's happening so early because his career so far has only been on an upward path. There's not really anything for him to feel got at about. And that concerns me a little bit. There are a couple of things at play here. In terms of Jude's performance in the Euros, right? He wasn't the only one to have a poor Euros. Let's face it. They pretty much all did.

but there were other players during the Euros who really did take criticism. The captain, Harry Kane being one of them, every single game that was played, there seemed to be a debate about whether Kane had any value left for the team. Gary Lineker called him that word that we were, or called England that word that we won't repeat. Kane was part of that. That was good fun. Phil Foden.

Took quite a bit from you, Craig, and others. You wanted Anthony Gordon in the team. You didn't leave Foden alone for the best part of a month. Gareth Southgate, the manager, was having plastic beer cups thrown at him. The only one who's come out of that tournament with this woe-is-me complex.

is Jude Bellingham. I haven't heard Harry Kane moan about the way his performances were portrayed. Haven't heard Gareth Southgate do that. Haven't heard Phil Foden do that. Haven't heard Kyle Walker do that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And in terms of the media, the point that Chris, that Craig,

I'm so used to having Chris on this podcast. I do apologise. The one point that Craig alludes to there very eloquently is Jude's suspicion that the media are out to get him. Just from background, all of the players, whether it's a World Cup, European Championship, because you're away for four, five, six weeks, so much media to do. They all do it. The third choice goalkeeper does it. The second choice left back does it. Everybody does it at some point because there's so many media obligations involved.

And Jude won't do it. At least he won't do it with the written media. The way he gets around it is by doing it with the TV, et cetera. He doesn't do it with us. And he made the point before this game against Liverpool that that was because he felt that his family were being harassed

followed around at home. All I would say, I don't know about the details of that, all I would say is that Jude Benningham has never sat down with the written media at a big tournament. And that goes all the way back to his first one at the Euros in 2021, through the World Cup in Qatar, and into last summer's Euros. He's never done it. Absolutely. It was an interesting point you made at the start there, Ian, when you said that

you've seen this develop and so have i and players when they get to the mid-20s when perhaps i've taken a little bit of a kick in and it's almost with jude as if this is a pre-meditated mindset that he's been given by others and we do listen to our parents and those around us and they give you a little just a little vignette i don't know this will be of interest to our listeners or not but my uh yeah my boy came home from school oldest boy came home from school the other day and said he was having problems with uh

with an older boy at school. So I gave him some tools to deal with it. Came back the next day and I said, did you have any sort of bother with this boy? He said, no, no, not at all. He said, but I went and said what you told me to say. I said, that's all very good, but that wasn't the point. You know, you've brought trouble to your door by going and approaching the boy with the tools I'd given you. So the point I make is, two points on this.

children clearly listen to their parents and take their instruction and their advice very, very literally and act on it. But also as well, don't bring trouble to your door. And I think a lot of this with Jude, he's making an issue of an issue that isn't really there. We like him. We want to engage with him. Give us a chance. You make your own mind up. West Ham versus Arsenal this weekend, Craig, is another intriguing looking game. Um,

Just when we thought we knew everything about West Ham, i.e. that they weren't particularly good, and we thought we knew everything about Newcastle, which was they were steadily recovering from a bit of a wobbly start to the season, West Ham went and beat Newcastle 2-0 on Monday night. You were there. Just tell us a little bit about what you saw in West Ham and whether you think that gives them any chance at home to Arsenal in a fixture that they lost 6-0 last season.

Yeah, now you look at Monday night, did West Ham win or did Newcastle lose? I would honestly say it was more of the latter. As much as West Ham were improved in they took two good chances, two good goals, they scored. They didn't really come and do a job on Newcastle. Now Eddie Howe said afterwards that goals change games. And while that may sound like a little bit of a cliche and stating the obvious, I really think when you apply it to Monday night, that's a good thing.

Never is that statement more true. If Newcastle had scored during that early period of dominance or even got an equaliser when they were camped in West Ham's half in their final execution, their shot, pass, cross, through ball, whatever it may be, let them down so badly. If they'd scored then, I do think they would have went on to win. Like I say, this wasn't West Ham who'd come with a game plan, well executed and was so much better and frustrated Newcastle

Newcastle frustrated themselves. So to that end, I wouldn't read massively into this as being a West Ham revival, but what they can take from it is confidence, absolutely, in a couple of very good individual performances, the likes of Aaron Wan, Bissaka, Jared Bowen as well. But to come back and answer the question, West Ham versus Arsenal on Saturday, no, I would absolutely still see this as an away victory, and in part because as well,

the return of Martin Odegaard. Now, our colleague Dominic King called Martin Odegaard the best midfielder in Europe during the week. And while some might think that's a little bit of an overstatement, I don't. And as I get older, how I judge players changes. Now, when you're little, you like the guy who's got the most skill or scores the goals. That's who you want to post a pin-up.

As I've got older, I appreciate more players who impact on a team. This is why I've got such a downer on Kylian Mbappe and why me and you debated it at length during the summer on the Euros podcast. And look at a player there who just plays with the isolation of himself and actually doesn't not only impact

doesn't impact positively on the team, actually impacts negatively on those around them. As we've seen at Real Madrid, as we've seen at times with France, as we saw with Paris Saint-Germain in the two semi-finals I covered last year in the Champions League against Dortmund, Martin Odegaard is the absolute antithesis of that. And it's shown by Arsenal's little mini revival now since he's come back into the team. I just see

A wonderful team player, I say a wonderful individual player in the manner in which he, and we talked about this earlier, players who drag teams to results, a la Roy Keane, a la Brian Robson back in the day. Martin Odegaard,

His emergence as that type of player, even though his skill set would suggest he's not, you know, he came into this world at 16 as a flashy number 10 with lots of skill. Well, his evolution into a captain and into one of the best midfielders in Europe, coming behind Dominic on that is incredible. And I do think now he is back in the team. We're talking about West Ham v Arsenal. I do see nothing other than an away victory there. And it's because of Odegaard.

Yeah, I thought it was a big call by Dom. Dom wrote that after watching Odegaard mastermind Arsenal's big win in Lisbon in the Champions League this week. But you make a compelling case also there, Craig. He is an incredibly talented player, but also seems to have that mentality as well. I think that's what you're alluding to, the mentality to take responsibility and to want to be the person who makes a difference. De Bruyne has been that person at Liverpool.

Man City for a while and there were many others that we could mention. So there we go. I don't disagree. I think West Ham have got it all on to hold Arsenal back at the London Stadium this weekend. Right, that is it. I think you will agree that Craig has been a fabulous stand-in for Chris today despite me occasionally getting him mixed up with my regular co-host. Chris will be back on Monday,

all being well, all that's left for me to say is make sure you join this podcast community of ours.

We do need you. We do value you. We value what you think. We value your loyalty. The best way for you to show that you're all in is to go to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get this show, hit the follow button, give us a rating, leave us a review and let us know what you think. Let us know what you want us to talk about, et cetera. Craig, thanks for being with me, mate. I will see you soon and we'll be back on Monday.

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