“YOU’RE GARBAGE" with Jerry Springer
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Welcome back to Rewives. In today's episode, we're watching the explosive, iconic, and frankly, unbelievable Melissa and Joe Gorga debuting on The Real Housewives of New Jersey. And let me just say, it did not disappoint. I don't mean to insult my own rony episodes, but I think this could be one of the best episodes

and definitely most iconic Housewives episodes of any franchise since its inception. It holds up. Not every episode holds up, and we're choosing episodes that hold up. That could be yesterday.

Crazy, crazy, crazy. Actually, I went back several times to see if I actually was correct that Melissa and Joe Gorga, this was their virgin maiden voyage on the housewives. You can't even believe it. Whether you've seen it or not, you'll freak out. It's actually not believable, but it's so believable because it's so real. This is on my short list of one of the best housewives episodes ever with a fistfight at a christening. There was only one person who could break down this kind of madness.

Jerry Springer, you are going to love this. This was epic. What a conversation to have this discussion about this episode was like eating candy. Oh my God. It was candy with no calories.

in this space and I think about how crowded it is and how if you're pitching shows to people, the word talk is now sort of like a dirty word because no one can really get it right. So what do you think about all that in watching what's going on now and how it's evolved or devolved? Yeah, I think it's all part of the democratization of our whole culture. I mean, it started out in the media

It started out probably with talk radio. Years ago, before you were born, you know, like Larry King had a radio talk show and people would call in. So that was the first time that the audience became part of the show. And people would listen because they'd love to hear the callers and laugh at that. Right.

Right. Then it all of a sudden went to television and Phil Donahue came along. And again, it was Phil out in the audience talking with regular people that and then that transformed once we had social media, the audience is now the entertainment. It used to be just a bunch of people living, executives living in New York or L.A. who would decide who the next stars would be.

who the great singers will be, who's going to be in the movies. Now, all of a sudden, it's anybody on social media. And so that's democracy. No one's telling it. Yeah, so that totally leads into what we're talking about because now social media stars are inarguably famous. I remember when I started coming up

at the big agencies, you know, the movie stars and the TV stars, the Mariska Hargitay's were the ones making the most money and people really resented. And then it was celebrity chefs. The Emeralds were making a lot of money and they resented these reality stars coming in because they don't have, you know, a skill there. They're they're just on television living their own lives. I actually disagree because I think the good ones do have a skill they're producing while they're

being you know in reality tv but um here we go on to jersey which has been a massive success and my producer morgan thought it would be tongue-in-cheek to pair you in this way this show is about having accomplished legitimate successful media and entertainment people that i'm having a conversation with because um i tend to get a good caliber of guests on my show and

And I wanted to have a conversation about these crazy shows with someone who I felt was a peer in the entertainment industry. I thought that that was a different way to do this than just me talking to somebody on these shows about these shows. So that's why I think you're amazing for this because you're very accomplished, very smart, but also you've been in the shit pit. I recognize that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, no one would have, uh,

picked me out of my high school yearbook or college or law school, whatever, and said, gee, he's going to be in show business. So I don't have any talent. I mean, I think I'm a nice guy and I'm reasonably bright, but I'm not talented in terms of what we normally think. I'm not an actor. I'm not a singer. I'm not a hunk. It's like, how does I get into...

How did I get into this? You must be a good director of traffic. You must be a good communicator and connector and director of traffic. You can't have done the show that you did without being able to make the trains run on time and make people and get people to talk about the things you want them to talk about. That is a skill in and of itself. For sure, that is a talent. To me, it's as much of a talent, if not more, than just being able to be able to play another character because it's not as easy as it looks. And being a talk show host, having tried it for one year, is definitely...

It's definitely not as easy as it looks, but okay. So I could talk to you for 10 hours and I would like to, because I'm really intrigued by this. I'm really excited for today. I like popped out of bed. Okay. So we've got New Jersey. Do you watch reality TV and do you watch the housewives?

Uh, the answer is no. But I did. Well, I, I mean, I'm interested. I, you know, I've never, I never watched my own show. I get it. Same. I become too self-conscious of whatever. And plus I was there. Why do I want to go through it twice? Right. So, um,

You know, when I watch television, I watch for sports and I watch cable news. Okay. So this is New Jersey Housewives. But I did watch the episode, by the way. Oh, good. So you know going in. Yeah, I watched. It was season three, episode one. Correct. And it's interesting to mention. So we'll get into the characters for the people listening who have or haven't watched. Okay.

This is the infamous Jersey Housewives, Orange County Housewives, then New York and then Jersey or Atlanta. That's when it started to become an actual franchise. And this show is different because the men and the children are more involved than, let's say, on New York. And also.

in many cases, paid. The kids and the husbands are paid. And they sit down in the interview chair, which is not done on New York. And the kids really aren't either. And this, what's different about Jersey than any of the other shows is it's family. There

There are a lot of interconnected family members. And that's what I saw. Yeah. And that's not what it's like on other shows. You go in and you go alone. Your sister might be in a scene with you, but as cast members, and just to give you a little background, this episode you're watching is the first time we ever see Melissa and Joe Gorga. That's, that's why she's introducing her life and her kids. We've never seen them before. That's Teresa's brother and sister-in-law. And, um,

The behind the scenes, which does make sense to me, was that Teresa didn't want her sister in law and brother coming on to the show because it was her sister in law who was going to be the housewife. And it's not good for family. And if they're not close to begin with, I'm sure she didn't want to share the shine and the star, which she has after all these years, because Melissa is a star in her own right. And so there was family drama besides even just what

what's going on on camera. There's behind the scenes, breaking the fourth wall, family drama with those two. And apparently, you know, production was talking to Melissa long before Teresa even know that Melissa was walking into her show, which I can understand pissing her off. She's the cast member who's, you know, carried the show for the last two years. And now her sister-in-law is coming on. It's just all kinds of shit that happens with Bravo behind the scenes. So that's

behind the scenes. But I thought I will tell you that in watching it, other old Jersey episodes don't still play like they don't hold up time wise. And this one did. And also I've been on some of the episodes that have been called the most iconic. And I think this was

One of, if not the most iconic of all Housewife episodes I've ever seen. I couldn't believe what went on at that event. It was addictive. Honestly, I'd never seen it. You know, I obviously know of the show. People are always talking about it. So I said, well, okay, I'm going to watch it knowing that I'm coming on your podcast. And I watched it twice. Well, the first time I watched it because I'm like, you know, I've got my pad here and I'm writing down.

who's connected to whom because that's confusing plus they're all brunettes right and that you know no i was thinking if they're five oh well there'll be a blonde there'll be a that's how i remember the names but so so i have these charts and figuring out how they were related but it was fascinating and you're right i i get how people can be dragged into this this is a soap opera um

with real people. Right. It's like a telenovela. This particular episode is an iconic episode, but in watching it back, because I watched a lot of the iconic episodes in doing this, my fiance was sitting next to me. He doesn't watch. He was compelled to. This was it had a little we're going to go into the details. But to me,

it had a little bit of the godfather authenticity because they're actually speaking Italian. These aren't guys in Brooklyn eating pizza pretending they're Italian because, you know, they have like tank tops on and their uncles are in Italy. They're speaking Italian. Like they're legitimately, literally Italians in Jersey and there's an authenticity to that. And, you know, you're my father. I mean, it's...

It had like a reality to it, ironically. Like, you know. And Caroline was very protective of pasta. Caroline was protective of- Caroline. Yes. Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Imbo, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found.

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So what do you think of the characters? Who did you identify with? Who did you like? What did you think? So it's Melissa. You've got Melissa, Teresa, Caroline, Kathy, who is Teresa's cousin, Teresa and Joe's cousin. And then the quieter. Who's who's the mom? What's her name? Jacqueline Loretta. Jacqueline. OK, so what did you write? They are all brunettes. What did you think of the characters? Do you like any of them identify? Well, yeah.

I knew a lot of them growing up. I mean, I can imagine them as young girls, you know, in high school and very open. I mean, I guess that's what you have on a reality show. But they are, whatever they're feeling, they're letting you know. There's very little hidden. There's no...

I'm amazed. And I was always amazed with the people on my show. I would argue that's reality. Right. What we call reality shows today, it's really not reality. It's reality.

Unscripted. Produce reality. Yeah, because what happens is they take a situation and then... But because the cameras are there, it is impossible that the camera does not influence how you're going to behave. But I would say that's the same thing on your show, too. They're both... I think they're very similar. Except the people...

People that are coming on the show are coming with their real life. There's no makeup. They're not going to be famous. They're not going to have a career. They don't even use their real names.

But by the way, at this point, you watched this show. It's funny you say that because what you're describing in reality television is now current 2022. When you're watching it, we did our own makeup. You had your own. There weren't glam squads. It was real. And in fact, I would say the jersey was the most real because they really is their family. They don't give a shit. They'll flip a table. They'll curse somebody out. They'll fight it.

which I really do believe would happen, even if there were no cameras. It does exacerbate it. But I would say that then it was more real than now. They made a couple, you know, they probably made $25,000 each for the whole season then. Nobody was famous then. It was like just getting started. And Teresa had just gone broke or bankruptcy or something. Yeah, but the people on our show don't, the people on our show never got paid other than their paid fare.

I get it, but it's not as far as you think. It is now. It's very far now. It's very glammed up and glam squad. And then it wasn't. It was a special occasion to get the hair and makeup. Yeah. Yeah. It's just interesting. And in fact, it was...

It was the first season. Teresa pays for over $100,000, I think it was, furniture for that big house in cash. And later they end up getting in trouble. And she and Joe, the one who had the stomachache... Bankrupt. They went bankrupt. They went bankrupt. But later on, they got in trouble with the IRS and both end up going to jail.

What? Yeah, they go to jail. Both of them in real life separately. They had to serve time separately. They got divorced afterwards. But they're showing all this money on the first episode that they're paying in cash. She has no idea what he's doing with their finances. They go bankrupt. He's working at the pizza place. She's trying to put her pieces back together by selling the book. And then...

Which incidentally is called skinny Italian after I had a tremendous success, the first ever product success on this franchise with a brand called skinny girl. And then she does a skinny Italian and it was a book. But anyway, so they now we're in a situation in this episode where she's trying to put pieces back together, make some money through this book, do appearances. And he's working at a pizza place after they're paying for hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash. So they've had a ride those two and now they're divorced, but.

But who's got the four kids? Teresa. That's the one. I love that I'm having this conversation. It makes no sense. I know. Don't worry. As long as we don't take it too seriously. But so that's the four. She has four kids. Yes. And her brother.

Comes on. And I couldn't believe in watching it back. Well, her brother is Joey, right? Who's married to Melissa. Joey Gorga, who's, you know, the biggest real estate developer, she says, in New Jersey, which who knows? And these houses are so elaborate. But I couldn't believe that Melissa Gorga and Joe Gorga

were so good on their first episode ever on reality television. Think about that. That's the first time they've ever been on the show. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like as characters, Melissa walked right in and then and they're in a fistfight scenes later at a christening. Yeah. Yeah. That was yeah. That was worthy of my show. Right. I mean, and what do you think that they're doing in front of the kids?

Yeah, see, look, there are families that, you know, people behave like that. I know. And I'm aware of that. And you would think, I think most people would say, good Lord, the cameras are on, behave yourself. Or this is a christening, you know, you don't like the other person, fine, don't push it.

But the guys are worse than the women. I mean, the guys get into this whole macho thing about, you know, I mean, that was...

You know, that's where you get these muscle shirts and, you know, just absurd behavior. That is, you know, you wouldn't be shocked if a 10-year-old or, you know, 12-year-old on the schoolyard started acting like that. But when you got the children there and you're throwing tables over, I mean, that's where it... The line. Yeah, I thought it just went over. Was it entertaining? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, and parents with who've had two heart attacks. So, yeah. Who does that? Right. I thought that first of all, I thought it was interesting that they did it. I think it's called a media rest, media rest or something where it starts off and we see the incident that's going to happen. And then we went back. That's not that's not that common in the house. I thought that was very, very good production wise that we see the massive incident. Then we go back and unpack it. I thought that was very cool. OK, yeah.

here's where it gets interesting to your point so you see that like he wants Teresa to get the hell away from the table and it's like why was I invited and then the sister saying it was a technicality that is likely it all gets mixed together in this weird soup so like probably because of the show they're not speaking so that's very meta and then if it

weren't for the show, Teresa and Joe wouldn't be invited, meaning the show is not going to allow that. The show's like probably paying for half the christening. They want the christening to happen. They're paying for that. So they want this to sort something to happen. Of course, the show doesn't necessarily wouldn't say they want there to be a throw down at a christening, but they're thrilled to have it. And in one case, you see the camera guy is obviously on the floor because the shots are coming from the floor, which was so much like your show.

But that's where it becomes meta. Like if the cameras weren't there, I don't think it would have gotten to that level. Everything is on steroids when the cameras are there. There's more alcohol drunk. Oh, sure. It just exacerbates issues. And then that brings up divorces that happen as a result, not as a result that happened. There are a lot of divorces that come during couples being on reality TV. And I wonder what you I'm.

would think you would have to know that. I mean, when you decide to sign the contract, you know, the couple of you sitting at home with your spouse and you're saying, okay, now this is a nice amount of money and this could be kind of fun. It's an adventure, but our whole, all our dirty laundry is right out there. Things are going to be said because we're going to be in encouraged to juice it up a bit. Yes. And, and,

What does that do to our marriage? So the question, the basic question I would have, if my best friend came to me and said, hey, me and my wife were thinking of going, my wife and I were thinking of going on this reality show, I'd say, you're crazy. I would never let someone I know have been on my talk show. My talk show was absolutely crazy. But as I said, it was honest in terms of

The people that called us desperately wanted to be on.

You could not call someone up and say, would you like to be on the Jerry Springer show? Who would say yes? You know, if it was just a cold call. So you would have to desperately want to be. And our number wasn't in the phone book. So you'd have to watch the show to know who to call. So you go through all of that. So when we got someone there and they'd be on for 10 minutes, and that's the only time they'd ever be on. Right. So, yeah.

it wasn't something that would change their life. It's a moment. It's a little burst, but it's right. I agree. Reality shows. This is, and you've got kids. No. Yeah. And you can't put it back in the box. No. And the kids are watching this, you know, that one girl, I think she was nine.

What was her name? Gia, I think. Is it Gia? Yes. Okay. Or Melania? I don't know. Yeah, it was Gia. Okay. So she's watching this and crying. And how is she ever going to forget that? Right. And as a result, well, now we have families getting divorced. Well, let me ask you this question. What does it mean? They're so popular. It's so common. So I've said to Kathy Hilton in particular, no.

what the hell are you doing this for like you're like we understand what i was bethany frankel was doing it for i had eight thousand dollars to my name i went on the show it changed my life it went on for three years i left it felt toxic it felt the opposite of who i was even though i could have taken it all the way i left i came back years later i left again and the reasons that i've left are because it's not who i am it's not the discussions i want to be having it doesn't feel like if

reflects my life without trying to act like you're better than, but just knowing that there's something wrong with this way of communicating and people are on medication. People are on Xanax. I know how size many minimum 10 that have gone on anti-anxiety medication because of this. And it's like, what? And then they're on the reunion.

Or after the reunion and they say things like this, I'm still recovering from that reunion. Like I literally had to talk to my therapist, but this is a self-induced thing for people who already have money. But what does it say about society that that, that crack pipe, you go back to it because you want that fame. You want that relevance. You want that hit. It is dreadful when it's going badly and it's half the time going badly. So what does it mean, Jerry? Well, uh,

People today are growing up in a society where everything is shared. There is no privacy. All you do, you look at social media, you look at Facebook, you look at whatever. Every second of the day, here, this is what I'm eating for lunch. This is what my bedroom looks like. My kid yelled at me today. In other words, it's everyone...

is has become addicted to there is no existence unless there's a camera on. Well, everyone wants attention, but then that's some version of fame. So people are putting fame. What I see on the housewives is fame has a higher value than happiness. Do you ever there's the level of plastic surgery? I am 51 years old. There's

They're 90, 90 percent of the women on these shows, 90 percent have had plastic surgery. That's a crazy number. I have not had plastic surgery. I had a boob left. That's 15 years ago. But you start to live in this reality where you think that you should be doing that because everybody's doing it. One hundred. I mean, 99 percent of filler and the young girls are doing it, too. And I believe that in this case,

It's more important to look like you have a great life than to actually have a great life. There's a greater value placed on fame is what I'm seeing. Well, I have two thoughts on that. Well, I was going to, I was encouraged to get a facelift and I decided it's cheaper to have my body lowered. So I've done that. I've just stretched that. But the idea that, yes, people want some degree of fame, but if you're,

If you're seeking fame, there's something missing. Right, right. Because you don't need fame. You don't need fame to justify your existence, to give yourself self-worth. And that's why I believe that people that become well-known or famous in their adult years

when they're already in their 40s, can handle it much better than young people because they

And that's why so many athletes get in trouble. But it's funny you said in your 40s, because this is a very interesting group where there's nothing more desperate than a woman in her 50s that is gripping on to fame, doesn't feel relevant in their house, can't be relevant in the workplace, in any other space than this, because this is a very unique niche where these women reside. These women aren't 50, but now many of the housewives are 50.

The late 40s, 50s. It's an amazing career you can create on the housewives that you wouldn't get anywhere else. You get to be crazy, get drunk, talk about plastic surgery, the jazzling your vagina and shit like that and behave badly and do better for it. The more badly you behave, the more you are rewarded. So it's a very weird vortex here. OK. All right. So what are you the Jacqueline and her daughter, Ashley?

It's funny because we're older. We're those people that certain music we don't understand. And we're, of course, those older people. So I'm going to preface it by saying that. You don't think I am, whatever. I have socks your age. I understand. But still, I still, these kids and the work ethic and the whole thing, right? I came up before, you know,

Everybody was I just came up in a time you worked 18 hours a day and I grew up in the Jeffrey Katzenberg. If you're not going to come in on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday mentality. That's how I came up. So Ashley's going and she's crying and we're not sure exactly why she's crying, but you could tell there's a level of frustration. And I see this in young girls. I've had young girls.

I've had young girls interview me for jobs, like meaning they're asking me how much they actually have to come in, how much they have to work, the hours, the lunch break. And here I see a young girl and she seems very upset about having to have a commute from New Jersey into New York City, which is not a far commute, that particular commute and wants to have her own apartment. And I saw an interesting communication style. And I thought ultimately that.

As often is the man is more cool, you know, is calmer in their delivery. And he was sort of delivering the message. She couldn't she and her mother wanted to just go at it. Both of them just wanted to go at it. But I thought that the mother's message was correct. It was the messaging that wasn't correct, which is often the case that the mother was like, what the hell? You think life's going to just hand you something? And the father was kind of creating boundaries and rules for us. I wanted to hear what you thought of that.

dynamic and kids and having money and how you're going to get them to want to work as hard as we did. Yeah, that's a common, that was perhaps the most real life

um situation of the particular show that you had me watch i had you watch it sorry no no but i i as i said actually then i really enjoyed it you had me watch it too and they picked yeah i have to do homework every time too and i'm always like but then i enjoy it right okay yeah because i had to explain to mickey my wife you know she said you know she came up to the office and i'm

sitting there watching. She says, what are you doing? And I said, I'm watching Housewives. She says, why are you? I mean, you know, not that it's a bad thing, but yeah, it is. You know, we've been married 49 years. So she doesn't, you know, this is, she wouldn't think I would do this. And I was like, so anyway, I said, it's a homework.

I'm doing it. But you're going on. You told her surprise. We're going on the housewives together. Yeah. Yeah. 50 50 anniversary gift. Oh, yeah. That would be something. So anyway, but that's that is a apparent.

um, discussion with a teenager. Right. And, you know, at, at some level, at some point that discussion always comes up. I mean, it may come up when you're 14. Why can't I do this? Well, you know, maybe you got to work for it first. And, you know, you can't assume that, um, just because we have money, therefore, you know, you're going to have to work for it. You're going to have to

So that just seemed so real. I honestly, I thought that was, in terms of reality, I thought that was a real, real discussion. Anyone watching the show that has kids has at some point had that discussion. And people that...

It didn't matter whether you were wealthy or not. Even if you're not wealthy, you know, the parent at some point gets to say, because the kid's got a friend who's wealthier. How come I can't have that? Right. Well, you know, because I don't make so much money. That's why we can't afford it. But it doesn't mean that you can't go out and work and get it at a point. So that was...

It was real. Yeah. And you've seen on the show other times where they struggle because then they don't want to get the daughter the car and then she's acting like a bitch and then they do get her the car. And in this case, the daughter is genuinely having emotions because she doesn't know what the real world is really like. And those are genuine emotions. And the mother, you know, sometimes you want to like the other day, my daughter said something about.

Oh, but all her friends were coming over and it has to be four, not five. And they need we need room in the car. And I literally said I've never I really never have said this to my daughter before. But I said tough shit. Like I said it, but it felt good to say because it felt like, who the hell do you think you are? And the mother was not being logical. And, you know, men.

in many cases that I've seen can be calmer in these discussions with the kids. They're not also, he also isn't in the day in day out with the daughter where he wants to rip her by her ponytail. He's coming home at the end of the day from work, having this logical conversation. I thought that the lesson for us though, is the messaging versus the message. Like her message was right. Her messaging was not great. Right. But you know what?

I wonder on this show if there was any possibility that the messaging would be right. Because it's not as if nothing else was going on in the world and then let's have this discussion. Right. It was this daughter growing up and watching, particularly on this show,

These adults arguing who had a bigger party, who has a bigger house. I didn't get invited. Exactly. There is such childish behavior by the grownups. Nice. That all of a sudden the 19 year old.

you're not going to, you know, if they've just finished a discussion where almost every other word is the F word and stuff like that. Yes. Arguing over just childish things that have no meaning in the real world. It's a point. The message is, who's going to listen to that message? And in many cases, the mother's

don't have careers or work they can't say i worked my ass off before i got my own car because it's not true and they're active that's a very good that's a very interesting point the role models and the drama and the superficiality and the showing off of the cars and the pretending you have a hundred thousand dollars to pay for furniture in this big house that you can't afford it's a lot of bullshit that's a good point that we know but i don't talk about enough so that's a good one um what about

Well, first of all, the girl, do you remember Lizzie Grubman? The girl that she works for is the one with the Mercedes SUV that ran over the 15 people in the Hamptons. And she had a big truck. Do you remember that story in the Hamptons that the girl, she was in the post every day. I went to college with her. I actually know her.

She went to Northeastern. I don't know anything about this. Okay, she went to Northeastern. I went to BU. You could Google it. It was in the Post, and I'm not exaggerating. I believe you are an honest woman that lived in Queens. Every day, it was in the paper. Every day, she was on the cover of the Post. Lizzie is Grubman, actually my law firm, my lawyer's daughter,

Alan Grubman is a big, famous entertainment lawyer in music and entertainment. He's actually being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame right now. And his daughter, who's a wealthy, wealthy daughter who had a Mercedes SUV, was in the Hamptons at a place called Conscious Point.

And she backed out and ran over 15 people in her SUV. Killed him? Nobody died, but severely injured. And it was major lawsuits. And it was a major thing. It was just a crazy New York. It was when not everybody was in the paper every day because it wasn't the internet the same way. And it was crazy. So that's who Ashley works for. She has a PR firm. She's gotten into trouble in her life. And I know her. But she was a young woman.

She lived a fast young life. Okay. So I thought it was interesting. So now Joe is working at a pizza place, which is sort of like, sounds like the producers made sure that Joe had a storyline for the next season and had a job because he's

Because no one on these shows would work at a pizza place as a pizza boy, as Teresa called him. So they're going through this sort of bankruptcy. She's calling him her pizza boy. He spoke to her so disrespectfully later when she's asking about his stomach. It seems like they really speak very disrespectfully to each other in the couple. What do you think about them? Well, obviously I don't know them, but at least that discussion seemed a little weird. And it's...

it's normally not something that someone would talk about on television. You're talking about the runs? Yeah. Even if you just say, I've got an upset stomach, you leave it at that. There was...

Too much information. TMI? Beyond. My fiance, his number to go on the show, I think it's like 50 or 100 million. There's no number for him because he appreciates his privacy and his happiness. And there's nothing they have that he wants. It'd be $150 million to talk about his bowels on. I mean, I don't think there is a number. I don't think there is a number for him to talk about or me to embarrass him and degrade him and talk about it. And then she says,

tummy. And he doesn't seem to want to talk about the runs. And then she's in an interview saying, Well, no, when I have the runs, it's a very serious matter. And I'm thinking, I think it's for anybody. It's a serious matter when you have diarrhea is very serious. Like, she acted like it was more serious for her if she had it. It's a different situation. She needs to run to the bathroom, which we understand. And you know, you're gonna be late, which we understand like, I feel like

Diarrhea trumps time, being on time. I feel like it trumps, the runs trump most things. It just feels serious for everybody. But you know, it's always the perfect excuse because you could be upset that somebody's late, but if they say that, you don't want to know anymore. It's so true. It's better than COVID or pregnancy. The runs are really a good excuse and we don't, because it's degrading yourself that you have to get to that point where you say it.

See, even Jerry Springer doesn't want to talk about the runs. Right. So anyway, I thought that and they went into it multiple times. And the tummy, I haven't heard anyone talk. You can't. How's your tummy walking into the christening? And now everyone's dressed in nice clothing. And we're thinking, I hope it's good. It just felt like a lot of information. Yeah, I agree. But, you know, that's Jersey because it's

The Gorga house is over here saying with the christening that like Teresa is not on time. And they're saying family comes first. They missed part of the christening and family comes first. In my house, the runs come first and faster. So I feel like that's trumping the christening. And I'm just going to have to say, I'm going to believe that they were telling the truth. I didn't. And this is just because I hadn't watched the show. So it wasn't clear to me

Exactly. Even though they mentioned it once in a while, I wasn't feeling why these people were so angry at each other. It seemed. Yes. Yeah. You would think on a christening, you know, that is a family thing, but people think family is important. You know, in other words, when they were sitting at the table, why did the brother is the brother Joey or Joe?

It's Joe Gorga, Joe Giudice. Joe Giudice is Juicy Joe, Teresa's husband, who has the runs, which he'll know will be embedded in history. And Joe Gorga is Melissa, the new housewife's husband. Okay, that Joe. Gorga. Gorga. That wasn't the place, probably, if I was his best friend and Melissa tried to calm him down.

Don't start up, if she comes over, if your sister comes over and says congratulations again, even if she said it before, don't start a fight about who's on time, who's not on time.

You want to have a lovely event for something that has significance in the family and they're going to remember for the rest of their lives. Just don't. And he just says, go away, go away, using their language or whatever. I don't you know, it just seemed. Why are you picking this fight? Because he made the other Joe, Joe, who's married to Teresa.

seemed like a reasonable guy. It's funny you say that. Okay, so it's funny. But that's because I don't know any of the backstory. Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Imbo, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime. But the FBI knows there was foul play.

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Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling.

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G.U. Dice. Yes. Later ends up seemingly having an affair and he's like at Napa on a cell phone referring to Teresa as a C. She's a C because he doesn't realize he's on a hot mic. Yeah. But there's some part of him that seems like he's just

Not thirsty for the fame, like he's just in the background, just like she's doing this. So he did it, too. He doesn't seem like he's on the forefront as a character in the show and doesn't give a shit. And there's something about that that I actually that gives me a quarter of him that I can tolerate because he doesn't give a shit. And I respect that part. Right. So he's not trying to be a star. He doesn't want to. And it seems to me.

that if Teresa, so you're in Jersey, you know, everyone's probably struggling with money. Everyone I've ever seen on the housewives doesn't have the money. They say everyone, every without exception, they don't have the money. They say they do. So let's say that, you know, Teresa and Joe are on the show and down the street, Joe Gorga, who's charismatic and his wife wants to be a pop star, which is the case, you know, or watching the fame over there. And now it's the third season and it's their time in the background. Joe Giudice says,

is chummy with Teresa's father and hangs out with him because Joe Gorg is always working. He clearly doesn't work as much. And so there's a jealousy there in the family. That's bubbling. Yeah, that came clear. That's bubbling. And I think Teresa becoming famous, you know,

quickly on the show is bubbling. So now Melissa is coming on. Teresa didn't want that to happen. And here we are. And based on what you don't know going on currently in 2022, Joe Gorga was just at this Bravo conference on stage waxing poetic. He loves the stage. He loves being a star slapping Andy Cohen's ass. You know, he threw a drink, I think, on someone. He

He came in to play, to be a house husband. So it seems like he did want drama at that christening because he did invite Teresa, whether the producers prodded him or not. But he came to play at that christening and loves that there was a throne. That's what I'm getting. Yeah. OK. That's what I'm. Yeah.

You know that it makes sense what you're saying now, because that if you had never seen the show before, he looks like the bad guy. Now, then you start to feel a little bit that he feels bad because he's losing his relationship with his dad.

But if that's the case and he's had two open heart surgeries, why are you fighting? He could have had a heart attack right there. Totally. I mean, that it would seem to me that television aside, if this is really true, if his dad really had the open heart surgeries, if that really and that they said he's all white and he looks white.

What in the world? Nothing then becomes more important than everyone settle down, give it space. Let's all behave. We got to get, you know, my dad doesn't need this. It's so true because that well, what's funny is they call the episode in the name of the father, but they should have called it family comes first because Gorgas, the one who said,

Family, in my house, family, or in the Gorgas, whatever, family comes first. You're not only not caring about the elderly who's now passed away, the father who's dead, and the daughter who's crying. Family does not come first, actually. Yeah, I know. It was all macho stuff.

Totally true. Family does not come first because you would never act like that. And the truth is, oh, the way he spoke to Teresa, too. She walked over to the table, even if she's full of shit. Well, she is full of shit because she's got diarrhea. But even if she's full of shit, walking over, everybody hates everybody and everything. You go to parties, you got to say, oh, and then they walk away and you say, I don't like that guy. You play the game. You're at a christening. Hi, nice to see you. You look nice. Thank you. You play the game. She walks up and he's like,

get a walk away get the hell away from me like he was nasty that's what that's what came across that's that was the first thing i noticed in the show because well it was early in the show when they first showed that clip hostile yes yeah and that hostility provoked and she really didn't do much she was an outsider another thing we didn't talk about you you were a host on your show no matter how bad somebody was to you you're still the host they're in your house didn't you feel that way

Yeah, but I, yes. Oh, yeah. Well, I just, you know, I'm sure I have many weaknesses, but I don't have a temper and I don't curse. So it... But even treating someone disrespectfully. They walk into your house. This is the Gorgas event they're hosting. They invited Teresa. She walks in. Think about the way they acted. Yeah. Ostracize their guests. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I would...

When these people came on to the show, 90% of them I liked, just a person, because they didn't have everything I had in life. You know what I mean? Right. They weren't lucky. Maybe they didn't have luck in the gene pool of parents. Mm-hmm. You know, it just...

They didn't have the education, whatever. So there, but for the grace of God, go on. So I never thought I was better than anyone who was ever on the show. Right. So therefore I never got angry, even if they started cursing at me. Well, they weren't. It was each other. You weren't the conflict.

Right. If they're coming on the show, they don't hate me. Otherwise, why would they come on the show? No, I just mean, I just mean, if you're having a party at your house with your wife and someone does something really that you don't like, they're guests in your home and you have to act differently. It's to say, you're a guest in someone else's home, you have to act a certain way. And when you have a guest in your home, you have to act a certain way. And they invited her and were nasty to Teresa, in my opinion. Like, unacceptable. 99% of people

They really do. I'm not saying they don't have moments, but when you meet someone, you say, how do you do? Right. You know, you behave a certain way when you go to your church. You behave a certain way when you're around strangers you haven't met yet. You're in someone's house, as you said. You behave. You don't knock over things. You don't. It's just normal, polite behavior. Most people are polite.

Right. And what's funny is I might be I'm more conservative than people think I am because of the way that I speak and because, you know, because I curse or I'm outspoken. I remember going to I think it was a bat mitzvah.

And there were people smoking pot like outside in the back, not, you know, and I thought that was so disrespectful. Like I'm so naive. And I heard that at my wedding, people were smoking pot. And I don't know why I thought that was disrespectful. It's also double standard because pot and alcohol in many ways, and many people think alcohol is worse than pot, but I don't know why I thought that was disrespectful, but it's,

Shots doing shots at a christening for some reason just have a drink have a glass of wine have a vodka Doing shots seems very juvenile at a christening. It just seems like are you in college? Yeah, yeah, do you sit in either? Oh, let's do a shot like what? Yeah, I think if you're going to something that is basically look it's not for me to say what people do at christenings But if it's a religious That's what i'm saying

Yeah, you behave differently than you do when you're out with your friends on a Friday night in a nightclub. That's what I'm saying. I don't think you're doing like, you know, funnels at a bat mitzvah. It's a Jewish event. That's what I'm saying. So I'm saying what you're saying. I'm saying you could do shots later on at the nightclub after the christening. It's the afternoon. Also, I may be wrong. I've been to christenings.

Why was everybody wearing like bridesmaids dresses? Did you notice that? That the women that were getting there in the room, the sisters, you don't know? Yeah, well, because I don't know what you normally would wear. My assistant has had a christening. I've never heard of like...

in the bathroom because it was on television they know they're on television and they want to look cool i'm going to show off my daughter my daughter is going to look better than their daughter right but no the grown sisters of that were in the bathroom talking about the glam wearing like matching dresses yeah yeah that well i i didn't know maybe you're supposed to but i didn't know it was bizarre um okay so ultimately what whose side are you on

Oh, whose side am I on? Yeah. Well, in the show, I was liking every one of them. I really felt like I understood their character. The only thing I didn't understand. So I wasn't sitting there to be judgmental. No, right. Yeah. The only thing I didn't understand, and I...

Told myself that that's because I don't know the background story. But I thought Melissa's Joe or, you know, Joe Gorga. Gorga, Joe Gorga. That he could have. He's the one that raised the temperature in the place. He instigated. No one. That no one else was coming in ready to fight. Got it. Nice. They could have been. You know, they could have been hiding their true feelings or whatever. But the only one who walked in there saying.

You know, just don't step on my toes the wrong way. You know, just don't give me an excuse. Give me an excuse because I'm ready to fight. I don't think anyone else went there, you know, unless that's what the producers wanted. No, no, no, no. So there was no one I could really relate to Caroline.

you know, kids leaving home. I understood that. I, as I said, I really understood the conversation Jacqueline and Chris were having with Ashley, with their daughter. So I think they all, nothing shocked me in terms of, you know, you'd like to think that, wait a second, what are we really fighting about? What are we arguing about? But I do understand perhaps that,

When you're now telling me that the back story was that Teresa was unhappy with Melissa suddenly coming on the show and, you know, stealing some of the. Totally. And it still goes on today. They still all these years later. That was years ago. All these years later, Teresa just got remarried and Melissa did not.

I don't think she went to her wedding. And I, I, there's a competition that runs deep and it still stems from that and probably other things, but it definitely stems from that. Caroline left the show. And I actually want to talk to her about something in television. She left the show. I know that Bravo would always love her to come back in some capacity and she would like to come back in some capacity, but she left the show and it's sort of like a den mother.

Jacqueline, I believe, was let go. And I actually think Jacqueline is a decent housewife. There has to be some cock in between the tiles. Like there's got to be some filler. I don't think she jumps off the page and is the most mercurial housewife. There have to be some temperature reducing housewives mixed in. Kathy also was let go. And I liked her husband, the Lebanese guy, Richie. They came on my talk show, too. I've always sort of liked them for some reason. I don't know why. Yeah.

But that again, I don't think there's any room for filler. It's like they want all people that really bring things to the table. So the current state of housewives, there aren't a lot of filler. And when you're on the housewives, you don't want filler yourself too. You're like, get out of the way filler person because I want to go where the meat is and we got to get these ratings up. So-

Maybe I'm contradicting myself based on, but as a viewer, you need some people that aren't always going to be at a 10. Sure, yeah. Yeah, otherwise the 10 doesn't seem like a 10 anymore. So what was this christening fight? A six? A five? No, that was, I'd say a six or seven. Could have gotten to a nine if not. Well, yeah, obviously there was no...

No one was taking furniture and smashing their heads or something like that. Well, Teresa did flip a table at one point, but yes, not in that episode. Yeah. Okay. Seven is all seven. But, but the thing which, you know, the dad, that that was going on, that's the first thing that struck me when they started the fight. The dad. Someone says that's his father. Cause you couldn't see who was in the fight.

And then I'm saying, oh, my gosh. Oh, that part I forgot. Right. And then at the end, it seems like the father is very disappointed. It's not very often that a father is taking the side of the son in law versus the son. That's like that's pretty. Yeah. And that that got to Joe. That probably is the thing that hits the more than me.

then what's going on with Teresa? And if I think about their current arguments, there's no the parents. I think the mother's past. I don't know. But the father's dead. So there's nobody to keep anybody in check, meaning they could fight as much as they want now because they don't have to worry about what the father thinks or his approval or anything like that. It sounds like you relate to Caroline the most in the whole episode. We had to be one character who to be.

Gosh, I don't know. I mean, it's hard for me to relate to. Yeah, Caroline probably in terms of, you know, I'm 78 years old. Right. So Caroline was the only one who was in 30 years of my age. Well, OK. And, you know, so it's...

But they they all of them had what I consider electric personalities. Nice. I mean, they they all you notice every one of them. And I don't mean just because they were good looking. Right. But just they had something going on there. Charisma. OK. They have charisma. Exactly. When they walked when they came on the scene.

They were noticeable. Nice. So whoever did the casting did a good job. That's nice. That's nice. They'll probably love to hear that. And who, well, then only two more questions. What's the Rose and Thorn? What was the best part of the, I didn't know the best could be something bad that you didn't like, but the best part of the episode and the worst? Well, the runs was the worst. Okay. I mean, just. I know. We don't need it.

Well, the most exciting part, obviously, was the fighting part. That's, you know, we couldn't... The fight and the runs. But the ones where I was invested in was the parents talking to the daughter, Ashley. So I thought Jacqueline was excellent in that episode. And yeah, I think there was no bad part. Every...

you know maybe because i was so concentrating because i knew i would have to you'd be tested i'd be tested yeah so i really as i said i drew diagrams i got up this please keep those just don't throw those away i may want those at some point for something i don't know why but i think jerry springer's diagrams on the housewise seems like something that i would want that should go on ebay

Yeah, I'd like to frame them if it's all the same to you. So my producer is going to get those because I just feel like Jerry Springer. These are Jerry Springer's diagrams on the housewives. I mean, exactly. Thank you. I have. Yeah, I need them. Thank you. I need those. Yeah, it's funny. You're reminding me. I like Jacqueline. I like Jacqueline as a housewife. And then I guess the last thing, which I think we know, but you could crystallize it. What's the what's the takeaway of the episode? What's the life lesson?

The family should come first? Well, you start out with you have the deepest connection to the family. And the family is there when you're born, when you're a young child, the impressionable years. So the family never leaves.

But as we grow up, then we marry someone. We have an extended family. We have relationships with people we work with, uh, uh,

So your life becomes more complicated. All you have to do is look at how you spend your Thanksgivings over the years. You know, first you always at quote home with mom. Right. And then all of a sudden, well, now every other year you're with the other family and that becomes your family. And then your kids, they live in another city. Then you're going there. So, um,

The family is tossed around a lot. Yes. It has many, many parts to it. Yes, Jerry. I love that. That's so prophetic. So you can't just say family comes first because what is the family anymore? Mom and dad, what happens when mom and dad aren't around anymore? Yes. Now you have children.

And when you're married, you have your grandkids. So then the family just keeps growing and growing and growing. It's very...

If you're Italian, it's a very large family. It's a very, very interesting thing you bring up because you've been married for, you said, 47 years, right? 49. 49 years. So your wife in the first five years was your family, but not totally your family. I mean, it could have gone sideways, and I'm sure it almost did like every other couple of million times. But your wife really became your like real family, like blood family. But that evolves. And then, and I bet after all those years, your wife's family,

became your family sure that's a very it's true like my fiance and I have been together for years my relationship with his mother is different than it was before I'll just call her on my own all the time and just say something or complain or complain about him my daughter loves his mother and wants to see her as her family and my daughter loves my fiance more than anyone it's like lives for him so that you know it's interesting what you say yeah that's true so

And everybody can't always just get along. And so I guess and Teresa now has a new husband and that's now her her family with her kids. And Joe's family is Melissa that and their parents are that that's a great. I know it sounds like a simple point. I'm glad I asked that question because I almost didn't because we talked about it so much. But it was the best. My favorite part of talking to you. I just don't think of it that way. The family shifting. Usually the favorite part of talking to me is the end.

That's what they say at parties. When Jerry's about to leave, I have the best time ever. Like when people come up and they talk about my show, they say to me, I loved your final thought because it was the show was over. That's very Jewish thing to say. That's amazing. Well, tell your wife. Thank you.

Thank you for letting me borrow you and you watching the housewives. That's why I really love the show, Jerry, because it's so ridiculous. Like why are Jerry Springer and I talking about Joe Gorgon? Like why? It makes no sense, but it makes all the sense of the world because you gave me such an amazing poetic answer. And I'm sure if I met Joe Gorgon, I would just say, hey guy, how you doing? Right. Because I grew up with a lot of Joe Gorgons. I bet you might. Maybe because of the show, you'll meet Joe Gorgon. Yeah. Yeah.

But he could hurt me. He also is very sweet. I've met him. He's very nice and very gentle. He could hurt you. He's very sensitive. This is his first foray ever onto television. He wanted to come in hot and he did. And I don't watch that much either. I don't watch that much. So I'm watching new with you. Thank you so much. I want to meet you. You're great, Bethany. I really do. Tell your wife I said hello. Love to your family. And thank you for doing this. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to Rewives today. I mentioned it all and now it's your turn. Please take a minute to rate, review, and subscribe and follow the show's Instagram at Rewives with Bethany. Is there an episode you want to hear me talk about? Comment on any Rewives with Bethany Instagram post and our producers will add your selects to our list. See you next time.

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