Sasha Colby on Returning to Drag Race, Taking Over for RuPaul & Inspiring Queer Youth
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I'm like, no, I'm not. 17, drag. 18, graduated. 19, t***. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah, no. I didn't even audition until season 15. Did you have to audition? I did. I did. Her name is Trish. She's got the fish and all the gossips. Filthy rich, pretty and pink. Hot topic queen and says what everybody thinks. She's just Trish.

Welcome back to the Jess Church Podcast. I am so over the moon for today's guest. She is businesswoman, activist, winner of season 15 Drag Race, Miss Continental 2012, the one and only Sasha Covey.

The crowd goes wild, wild, wild. I'm so gagged right now that you're here. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. I just look at you and I'm like, wow. And I'm in your world. And I imagine your world. Literally, you looked like Barbie when you came in. I was just like, I love it. I was feeling like this felt like very I just came from Boca.

And I'm like Luann de la Seps. With the shell necklace too. You're like right off. Yes. It's also giving very like white lotus. Ooh, yes. Which I saw your TikTok sound you recently did. Yes. Do you watch it or are you just like – I did. Okay. This is giving white lotus for sure. It's giving Piper now. Yes. You were so good at it. I was like, wait. The expressions, the everything. I love it. It's giving food. It's a –

It's too normal. It is giving that. Oh, my gosh. Well, you kind of act. Would you ever be on a show like that? Oh, yeah. I'm like definitely always wanted to act. I mean, I've been...

I've been a drama queen my whole entire life. I feel like I've been overacting to no one in my family. Just to yourself. Yeah, it's just to the mirrors, to the cameras, the imaginary cameras that's always been following me. I feel like when I was little, like, I definitely always thought that, like, I was in a TV show. Like, I would wash the dishes and pretend I was, like, cooking or, like, kind of talking to the camera at all times. I...

Just thought like the Truman Show, like your life was... I feel the same way. I just assumed that I was main character. But that is the best energy. I've actually never met anyone that said that because that's exactly how I felt too. Or like, you know, I'd walk down the hallway and like pose for pictures with like fans and there was nobody there. I was like eight years old. Or like always like running from something. Like I loved to pretend that I was in a scary movie.

and like run and scream from things or like run. I was doing that at 18 and in parking garages I would set my camera up and just like run, try to fumble with the keys to get in. That is, oh my God, that is crazy. And then you trip and fall and you're like,

On the beach, right? Like running away from like the sharks. Oh, wait. Yeah, because you grew up in Hawaii. I'm landlocked in Illinois, so I didn't get the beach. But yeah, the killer just always chasing. It's kind of everything. It's so fun. That's wild. So did you act as like a child? Well, I never really went to like drama school or anything. I was more like dancer. There wasn't really a theater in my school. So I kind of just...

always pretend acted, I guess. But yeah, like now I'm like totally wanting to be all up in it. Like, I feel like drag is a very, like a niche part of acting, you know, you kind of,

You got to put on a character. Yeah. And you put on a lot of characters. That's why I did my cosplay from your season 15 makeover with Veracity. And you love cosplay too because you did little Kim on the cover. You've done Pamela, obviously. So I was like, okay, she appreciates a cosplay. I do. I do look at Reference Queen. I do. I love it. I was like, there were so many looks that you had, but I was like, okay, let me find it. I know. It's like the pageant, the Hawaiian. Yeah. That was one of my favorite all-time makeovers. I was just like, that was so good. I was so jealous of like the

patting everything. I was just like, looked amazing. It was so fun. And the teacher, she was just so...

So about it like she was just like I want it all like she's like I got body, but I want more She was so down and she's so beautiful so beautiful so pretty so easy to paint I thought it was like literally in your family for real like I really thought she was like a Kobe like for real I was looking up and I was like oh she's the only thing she's like she looks like Vanessa Williams or like Lion Bay Vanessa Williams daughter she was what's her

Lion Babe. Oh, I don't know her. What a fierce name. I know. She's a great musician. Yeah.

- Yeah. - Well, you did act though, is this, I don't know if this was true, I saw a clip and it looked like you in Glee. - Yes. - How did you get that? I was gay, 'cause Glee is my favorite show right now. I'm like binging it. - Oh my gosh. It was for an episode, it was technically, I mean, it is on my resume. But it was an extra moment and it was 100 trans people. It was a chorus. So we were doing this huge thing and there was 100 people from all over the country.

And it was myself and Sonique and Eating the Doll. We all were kind of hanging out with each other. And yeah, we got to meet a bunch of trans people that they like kind of shipped in from and flew in and had all these different representations of what trans is like. Trans men, trans women, non-binary people. And we all...

- Oh, was it? You look real though. You were convincing in the shot. - None of us even knew the song. So we got there at nine in the morning. They hand out to a hundred trans people trying to organize this all all day. And we're pretending, we're trying to figure out this music and trying to learn the lines.

And you see everyone trying to figure it out so they can overact and sing. Yeah. But it was an all-day thing, especially to organize this all. It was super fun. How long do you think you were there? Oh, I mean, we got there probably like, I mean, I think we got shuttled in like six. Oh, my God.

It probably didn't leave until about 6. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. There's a lot of waiting. There's a lot of organizing. Well, you were giving subtle. Yeah, you were giving subtle things. It looked like you were really saying, because out of 100 people, I mean, you really got featured. I was so happy about that. I know. Out of 100, I was like right there. How did you get that? Did you have to move your way there or they put you there? I just let the universe take control. Yeah. They're like, this is the star. And I'm like, wow. OK, here we go. Because they would kind of set us up into groups so you didn't know how they were going to.

filed us in. So I just was like, oh, this is great. Oh yeah, this is a nice shot. Did you like it? Because sometimes, I did a background work too and sometimes it's like a lot though. Because you have to be consistent. That too, but if you're the main character, aren't you kind of like, well, I should be up there singing. You should be like,

hold your face, right? Hold the poker face. That's why I was like, you handled it well with a hundred people. I'd be like, oh my gosh, now I'm leaving. I walked out of a few sets where I'm just like, I can't do this. I can't be with it. I didn't know that. I didn't know there was someone who had. I would have walked out of Drag Race, but they wouldn't let us. No, I wouldn't have walked out. Drag Race? Okay.

So insane. So I was like, okay, so you joined the season 15, which has been crazy that you weren't on before. Oh, yeah, no. I didn't even audition until season 15. Did you have to audition? I did. I did. Because your daughter, Carrie Coby, was on the first season. She was. Season 14. The season before, yes.

So I just assumed they'd be like, we'll just ask Sasha. She'll come on. The nice thing is, though, I don't know if they've really asked people, but maybe they'll encourage someone to audition. But yeah, I like to be going through. I didn't get encouraged. I got encouraged by Carrie and like Sonique and like the other trans people that are on the show already. They're like, you got to audition. I'm like, OK, let's try. But yeah, I like that I went through all the auditions.

All the protocols. Yeah. To not just be like here. Yeah. Like...

Because it kind of seemed from the beginning. Like, that was the first season I watched. That was the first season I ever watched. And now I'm, like, obsessed. Like, in real time? Yeah, in real time. And I just wasn't, like, familiar. Like, you know, love the drag world. Wasn't familiar with what it was really about. And then I watched it. Oh, my God. And that was the Sugar and Spice season. Yes. Yes. That was when Sugar was you. Yeah. So I'm a little narcissistic. But when Sugar was like, I'm you, I'm Mads Game. You're like, who is this show that I'm on? Main character. Yeah, I know. I know. Too much. Well.

It wasn't good for her, though. She got booted out that one time. Like, so sorry. Do not do me on statue game. But I was so obsessed. I became so obsessed. And I remember specifically when you entered and everyone was just like, well, we should just go home. Like, and I was just like, oh, my gosh, who is this? Like, you just came in, boom.

just, like, just ready to win, basically. So it looked like you were almost set up just to win because everyone was so intimidated by you. Yeah, or, like, set up to lose if I, like, dropped the ball. You think? Yeah, I'm like, imagine, like, if, like, all that hoopla was happening and then, like, I fumbled. Like, that would have...

You don't seem like a fumbler to me. You seem like perfectionist. Yeah, I'm a bit of a perfectionist people pleaser. Have you ever fumbled ever? Um, yeah. Stumbled fall, anything? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Like on stage? Because you did pageants before. Uh-huh. Starting like what, 2005 for you? 2005? God, you are good. Well, I was watching all your Miss Continentals. I'm impressed. Yeah, it was like 2005 and then 2008. And there's no cue card here. No, I do have cue cards, but I don't

but I don't need them yet. - Yes, you were right up there. - No, I was, 'cause I'm also obsessed with pageant world. Well because of where I was staying, you know, I always try to like see the guests and like how they grew up, and we grew up around the same era, and my gosh, I would have loved to competed in pageants. Like that would have been my dream. - I feel like you're like so pageant ready.

Oh, no. I competed once and I got no place. I didn't even place top 10. So I didn't. But watching you, because you were really young. I mean, you had a bit, were you 20? I was 25, 21, 21. Because you have to be 21 to run the pageant. So your first ever. The first chance I got, I was there. How do you even get involved? Because like, how do you get in that world? Were you doing it as a child? Uh.

Well, growing up in the pageant or growing up in the drag scene in Hawaii was really pageant-centric. All the girls are just trans girls and they really love Miss Continental. And Miss Continental was going on since 1980. So it has a lot of history. So when I was growing up, that was my blueprint. They sat me down and made me watch these pageants. Wow.

Also, like just seeing like these beautiful trans women. I'm like, oh my gosh, like sign me up. Yeah. And then really like through dance and kind of like right when I was transitioning and that was about 18. So a few years before I started doing pageants, but I started transitioning and all my friends were starting graduating.

And everyone was like, I'm going to go be a backup dancer. And they're dancing with Janet Jackson and Madonna and Britney. And I'm like, well, what am I going to do? I would love to be a backup dancer, but I don't think...

at that time it was just like a trans girl like super tall like taller than like the talent you know isn't really someone like you know talent always needs like shorter persons or it's a whole like hollywood or dance world thing so i just was like there was really no space for me as a trans woman but pageants were like the perfect thing that combined like my dance my transitioning and like my main like my main character necessity so that made it all kind of like oh yeah i should just

focus all that in pageants and that's where it started. Wow. Yeah, the competition vibe. Yeah, that to me and then getting all the gowns, like, I mean, that's expensive too to like keep, that's why I can never do pageants and my mom's like, that's too expensive, you can't do it. So how did you, were you like fundraising? How did you like get involved in that? Yeah, we would, we were fundraised. I would like have like benefit shows. That's how the girls usually do it. Um,

You get sponsors. You run certain pageants that have certain promoters that will help and give you a bit of a package, have some good friends, be like...

somebody that people want to help i guess and yeah oh a lot of favors because those dresses are no joke it's insane or like have like friends that have literally gone blind rhinestoning a gown for me and yeah and that's so that part is so intense the rhinestoning the details of it it is i don't have the patience can you not i can do a little bit and then i'm like yeah that

- Some of my friends, they like it. - Yeah, like my makeup artist loves it. - Really? - Yeah. - Oh my God, that's insane. I don't know. - Yeah, it's like therapy. - Patience and therapy, yeah. When I watched Drag Race for the first time and I was like, I loved all the outfits, I was so mesmerized. So I would like look up all the designers everyone was using and stuff and then I realized how much like Garo Sparrow, like I got. - Oh yeah, the quotes.

I can get one dress a year. Like, for the Wicked premiere, I'm like, okay, I'll use them. V Monique. Like, they're all wonderful. Yeah, oh my god. Monique is so good. The best. I do all my tour outfits. Oh, I think I literally have the black version you wore on the first trip tour. Yes. It's, like, with the beads. I, like, got mine in, like, pink to look like that, too. Because she's, like. I just got two from her.

That's silver and a black one. I can't get out of it. They're so good. Oh, the best. And it's like, I've never met her in person. I just sent the measurements to Chicago and it fits like a glove. Yeah. So I blame Drag Race for my- Yeah, for our taste level now. Yeah, because I literally just like, I go broke now because I have to have the high quality. Yes. But it is worth it. And your pageant gowns too. Those are just so insane and so intricate. Insane. Insane. Heavy. Heavy.

It's like amazing though. And so you did compete in how many years before you won? You won in 2012. I won in 2012. So my first year was 2005. I got fifth place, first time out, fifth place, which was really wild as like a newcomer. I was like some, like, and I wasn't really, I wasn't thought of as a pageant girl. Like I was this like kind of almost like,

alternative, artsy, weird, like good talent, but like definitely needed some polishing. So I went back the next year cause you get top five, you get an automatic invitation back. So I went back the next year, 2006 and I wasn't ready and I was definitely like just going because I was excited and just going to go watch and do all that. And, um,

I got into the top 12, but I got 12th place. That's okay. She got in there. You were a finalist. Yeah. But I did win talent. I just changed my talent from the first night to the second night. So when I found out I won, I didn't have my talent costume. I had my second talent, and that flopped. What was it? Oh, it was like, well, my first talent was Fever. It was this jazz number with fans. It was very showgirl. And that's what I won. And then we switched it to this very...

very odd number where I played like this like kid who was like a nurse that was like playing with her dolls and one of my dolls came alive and it was crickets. Oh, okay. Crickets. Whose idea was it? Was it yours? Oh, it was mine. Okay. I was, yeah, I was. You were just trying something different. Yeah, it was trial and error. Do you have a video of that? Unfortunately, I think it is on YouTube. I didn't see it. I've seen every single clip and I did not see that one. Okay, I hope it's gone. I hope they scrubbed it. I would have remembered that.

But even though all that happened, I got a job offer at the place that the Baton owns, that Miss Continental, the owner of Miss Continental owns a bar, a show club in Chicago called the Baton Show Lounge. And it's like a...

a cabaret style like show. And they do three shows a night, five nights a week. And it's like these amazing trans performers and beautiful like just gowns and all that every day. And I got, I got a job offer there.

after flopping. - Wow, they saw that act and they're like-- - They're like, you know what, give her a stage, let her clean this up. - Wait, that's what just goes to show though, is like what one person thinks is like a failure, like okay, you like didn't win, someone else is like wait, that's so brilliant. - Yeah, it's a good opportunity. And then that allowed me to like literally be in the place

that makes Continental. So I got to watch all these girls that have won, and they were now my coworkers. It was like drag university. It was perfect. And I trained there, I studied there from 2006 to 2012 when I won. But I went one more time in between that. It was 2009, so I got first runner-up that time, which was good. So I went back one last time, and I won.

Wow. So four times. That's amazing. And everyone was nice to you. Everyone was great. I mean, yeah. I mean, there's as nice as drag can be. Everyone helps me. And I'm like, wow, that's not like there was by help.

They didn't sound bad to you. By help, it wasn't like actively being mean. Okay. But it was definitely just watching these professionals. So they helped me by me just observing how they moved and how they like, because you had to get ready. You were doing two numbers in each show.

three shows a night five nights a week so you had to get ready from like your opening number with just like a cast number maybe you have like five minutes to get ready and like change your whole look and get into a whole thing and so I learned how to get in and out of drag really fast and like change my makeup really fast and do all these things that you know just kind of makes you your muscles ready for competition and I'm like yeah continental and the baton

allowed me to walk so I could like soar at Drag Race, you know? - That's brilliant. So you're like living out of like a showgirl life at that point. - Yeah, oh absolutely. Like a full on showgirl artist, it felt so cool. It was like my first apartment I ever had was in Chicago. It was like my first rent or like,

like light bill I ever had. I was like, whoa, this is like an adult and like had a paycheck for drag. Like what? Yeah. It was like almost like unheard of. Probably like back then too. And I never, we never got paid in Hawaii. Like we had, we worked off his hips.

So to like get a paycheck from this was insane at 22, 23? Oh my gosh. Yeah, that would probably be unheard of because also it's just like so expensive. We just talked about doing drag. Oh yeah. It's just expensive. The hair, the makeup, everything. Now it's insane. I mean back then, like you get away with it. You could put like, you could have like a little rainbow dress on and a belt and you have a swimsuit, put a belt, you're doing drag. That is literally, we go back to rewatch the first seasons of Drag Race and I was like, wow. Sponsored by Rainbow. Yeah.

BB heels. The cork. Yeah. I was like, wait, this show changed drastically. I mean, it has. It's like, it's made the, like the, the viewer's eyes so much more critical. Yes. And so much want like so much more into like feed me, but it's great. Cause I feel like,

It challenges, I mean, hopefully it challenges us. I don't know where we're going to go though. We're running out of things to do. I was going to say, it's going to get so intense. Closets are like overflowing. Where do you, yes, I, where do you keep all your outfits? Okay. So. Thank you so much to SeatGeek for sponsoring today's episode. You guys know I love SeatGeek. If you're looking for the best deals on tickets to concerts, theater, sports events, SeatGeek is the one for you. And you know, they hooked you guys up.

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You enjoy it. Life's hard. De-stress with a night out. Use Seeky. I mean, I used to live in probably like a 500 foot, like square foot apartment, like while getting ready for drag race. And I just had, I was living on top of my drag. And now I live in a little bigger. So I have like a whole room. Dedicated. A closet just for that. And then like another closet for like my regular clothes. And then...

That has overflown, so now overflown into one of my drag kids. He has some room in his house, so now I'm like, I've cornered off one of his places and just have drag that I probably will never use. It's like a one-time look, you know, like one of those big finale looks or...

you can't really like use them again. You can't. But she don't want to like get rid of them because she doesn't want to put a bounty on it. Yeah. That's the thing because no one will pay as much as that. But one day or like even now it will be iconic. Someone will want to buy it. Yeah. Or like maybe like a retrospective or something. Yeah. Or if you get like a Vegas residency like Brittany used to

put all her costumes in the lobby, which would be kind of up your alley. Would you ever do something like that? Oh, I would love. Like just your own show in Vegas. Yeah. I know they do Drag Race in Vegas. Yeah, they do. But I feel like you're so like performance, like you've been on tour, you do the theater, you do all the big venues. So I was like, Vegas would be fun. Vegas would be fun. We were, well, actually when we go on tour next, we're doing our second, our second one woman show tour. I'm so excited. Strip two. Strip two.

But also there's dancers. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Can't forget. Yeah. So it's a little production. It's a little production. It's kind of production. Yeah. Yeah. It's very stripped down though. Like very kind of just how we used to create in our dance studio, you know, when we were like kids and kind of making, creating a world that you can imagine on top of, you know, just a few, few choice things on stage, which is,

I love. Are you putting the show together yourself or do you have like a director? Oh, it's a collaborative experience between a bunch of my friends and I. Most of us, we grew up together in Hawaii and we're all...

part of the same dance studio. So. I love that. So you guys all like kept in touch. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. So like 35 years, like 30 years. I can't age myself that much. Whoa. 25, almost 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we met when I was two. Right at the hospital when you were born. Yeah. Started tap dancing. Wait,

- That's so cool, so they come on the road with you then too? - Yeah, they do. - Wow. - Yeah, but they're all like amazing creatives in like the entertainment business, so luckily I get to have them for a few months, and we get to go on this road. We're doing 30 cities this year. - Was it 30 or 36 or something? Yeah, it's like 36. - 36? - Yeah, you went from 22 last year to 36, yeah. - I love how Trisha knows where this is. - Yeah, I was like, well because girl, 30-- - I haven't looked that far.

- Into the schedule. - It's better to be that way. - Or I might like, yeah, I'm like, "Carlo." - Yeah, no, 'cause-- - You gotta take each one each week. - 22 is a lot, 'cause we started at 20 and then we went to 30, so I was like, I'm at 30, and I was like, that 36 just seems extra. - 36, wow. - Just the extra, you know what I mean? I was like, okay. But it's fine, are you going out on the weekends or are you doing a bus tour? - We're doing a bus this time. - First game. - So we did weekends, yeah, we did weekends the first tour.

We were traveling on planes, and that was fun, but it was a little hard on the body, you know, just kind of all that stuff. So we got a bus this time, get to lay down and rest, and then hit more cities because we're on a bus. Yeah, that's what's nice. I guess they say afterwards, you just like drive, and then you sleep, and you're in the next city. Sleep, and then you're in the next city, and yeah, you can enjoy your day. And yeah, it'll be fun. We have a good group of people. We're going to get...

So silly. I was going to say by the end of it. It's just a bunch of friends. It's so silly. Well, it's good when you know everyone. I love the idea of a bus tour. I thought that sounded so fun. But then I was thinking of like the bathrooms and having to stop in the middle. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the whole thing. It's like no bathrooms. Yeah. I was doing a few like Christmas queen tours. So it's a bunch of drag queens on a bus. How was that? It's like camp. It's like camp on the road. It's fun. It's like wash, rinse, and repeat. Yeah.

And you kind of, you know, like you get to know these queens and you get to kind of see how everybody like lives and wakes up and like their habits. And I don't know. I'm an observer, so I love it. Okay. I was like, was there any like divas? Are you a diva on the road or are you like more just, I can go with the flow with anything? I'm pretty chill. I smoke a lot of weed, so that helps. Does it? I don't know if it like makes people more, I don't know. I think I'm naturally like anxious, so it helps calm me down. And you're doing your own work.

I am. Yeah, which is like crazy. I was like, oh my God, wait, I didn't know this. This is so exciting. So you just did a shoot for it? We just did a shoot. We're coming out with it around Pride. Pride is just going to be so much fun this year. Yeah, I work with this company. They're based in New York. So it's state by state. So, you know, everything's just in states now as far as...

laws. So I'm working with this great company in New York and I have like a really fun market there. A lot of like queer people that just love drag race. And this particular company, I got to hook up with them because they're queer owned POC only just really, like,

things that I love and like, um, they do, they just believe in a lot of like great community things. So they have this company that sells really great weed, but they also make these community, um, events where they'll have like church and everybody comes to like the, the park. And then they do like, you know, everyone would like do poetry and like they smoke or they

They have this doll invasion in Fire Island that they have all the trans girls and they're just partying Fire Island for the weekend. Sponsored by Flamer. So that's the company I'm working with. And I love the name too, like Taking It Back. Yes, Flamer. What's your line called? Flamer X Sasha Colby. Okay, okay, the collab. Yeah, a nice collab line. So they have a good amount of already, but they never had an infused

And I might be talking, like, over your head if you don't smoke. Yeah, I'm very new to all this, but I'd love to know about it. Okay, I'm going to get a little nerdy. Yeah, please. My pets will love it. But, like, they don't have an infused line. So what infused is, it's a regular joint. But then when they add, they'll, like, mix it with some hash. So we're going to mix ours with bubble hash. Yes.

And then you roll it in a oil, a THC oil, and they'd stick different flavors. And I got to test all of those out, which was so much fun. Oh, wait. I did product testing. This is great. I love that. Do you ever get too high? I let you know. Okay.

- Not in theory, but if you're testing all day. - Well you kinda gotta let it, I'm like okay, this is the flavors I wanna try today. And then I'll be like, okay, I'll try it early in the morning when it's fresh and I'll get its potency and then I'll try another flavor the next day.

So are you doing like traditional flavors like mint or is it like pizza? Oh gosh. Like what? You know what I mean? Like is it food? Like what is it? It's usually like fruity or like bubble gum, but almost like a candy. So we tried like, yeah, yeah. So we tried like cantaloupe, like a pink rosé. So it's kind of like a raspberry rosé kind of flavor and blueberry. Okay.

All these different flavors. And I settled on the pink rosé. I like the best. Yeah, that sounds like the yummiest. Really? Yeah, it's very booed. I'm like, I think I would try it again. I, like, wanted to when I met Moses. He, like, smoked all this.

but like i don't know if i do it right you know what i mean like i try to smoke it and then i like wasn't like what was i not doing like not swallowing or something like maybe i wasn't handling okay yeah and i couldn't get high and i was like i think this is not working for me so i like to eat the little edible yeah oh yeah but then i would just fall asleep so i wasn't that's true yeah it's a good sleep though but you can't get people who like smoke they're so

like function. They're so good. They're so focused. I'm like, maybe I need something like that because I don't love taking medication. So I'm like, I would probably need something like that. Maybe after the baby you might want to try it over. We did try. During quarantine, I really was trying. I was like, I need something because I was taking Xanax and that wasn't good. So I was like, let me try something else. I was like, let me try something that seems more natural and yeah. Okay, let's...

That's so cool. We'll see. We'll see. We'll have a, we'll have an after party. Oh my God. Would love to try with you. That would be fun. I would, I would provide a safe space for sure. Okay. I love that. Cause yeah, I don't know anything about anything, but it does sound fun. And you were saying it's like, you don't do the vape, you do the smoking. Um,

I do everything, but what we're selling right now is just going to be the pre-roll line. Love that. And then maybe we'll explore. I was looking at some vape options, so that'll be fun. That's very Gen Z. We were talking about this before, and Gen Z has...

has embraced us, which has been great. Because when you're a millennial, you're like, okay, we have our people that followed us for some time, but Gen Z really is the ones that's like, yeah, tick talking about you and just like worshiping you. Making those views go up. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? You have no idea why. Yes. Do you ever think that? Are you like, who's blowing me up right now? Yeah, or like, why this video? Yeah.

That's what always gets me. It's like the memes. I always wonder, yeah. Yeah. What's like your biggest one where you're like, hmm, this is odd. Why do people like this so much that people come up to you and they're like, do you have one?

Not like people come up to me. Those things are like on Drag Race. They'll want to quote things, but I'm not memeable like you yet. You are beyond the meme because you're actually talented. Your dancing is insane. The finale, I remember when we were watching it, I was like, because you didn't really have to ever lip sync for your live because you were always winning until the end. And then you came out and I was just like, what the?

What the hell? Like that was the most insane performance I've ever seen. I didn't realize, obviously now I know you like grew up dancing, but insane. Like who were you watching back in Hawaii when you went to the dance studio that you were like, I want to, you said, you mentioned Janet and stuff. Like Paula, Janet Jackson, Paula Abdul.

Oh, this is so loving. Have you met her? Because she claps so much. Oh, yeah. I love her. Did you do a clap with her? No, not yet. Oh, okay. I took a couple of pictures with her. I think we were at like an after party. Okay. Like for the Oscars or something. Yeah. She was so sweet. Did you go up to her or she went up to you? Her makeup artist knows, we know each other. Oh, okay. So I got to see him and then I was like, hello. Yeah. Paula. By the way, you are also very tiny. You said she was tiny. When we stopped for a picture, I was like, wait, you're also very tiny. You said earlier you couldn't be a backup because you're so, but you're kind of petite actually. Oh, thank you. Yeah. So I think you could have been.

a backup dancer. Thank you. I guess me around a bunch of like, I was like the only tall like Hawaiian or like non-Asian person in my whole like class or so. I always felt a little bigger, taller. Taller than the rest. Yeah, I see by comparison. Bare normal. Bare normal. So you felt a little, yeah, which is good for dancing. Now you're like known as like body. Hey, stand down in the middle. And that's a good

That's a good way to be. And did your, were you always? That's why I was like, oh, backup dancer? No, let me just come over here in the front. Yeah, that's better. Let me be the star. I know, Ashley Simpson used to dance backup for Jessica and I was like, that's crazy. I could never have. I love that. That's right. I do love it, but I'm also just like, I don't know. Yeah, you want to be in the front. Yeah, I actually love me some Ashley Simpson. That album. I love her too. Was like my millennial, like that was like my, like during my beginning of transitioning and I had cut my hair and like platinum blonded.

to look like Ashley Simpson. I had like this black chunk in my hair. Just doing pieces of you. Wait, I kind of love that. Oh yeah. Were you singing it? Were you like performing it in your room? I was totally like performing it at the club. Pieces of you was just, it really is good. That was a good one. She, she got such a weird hate train after SNL. I know. I mean, and like everyone. Everyone lip syncs. Everyone lip syncs, which is crazy. But no one did the Irish jig like she did. Yeah, and that was iconic. That was so iconic. Are you Irish?

I am. Gosh, you're good. So how was the J-I? I was like, wait, I remember reading this somewhere and I was like, wait, what? I'm Irish but not practicing, I guess you could say. Did you approve of the Irish J? Did you do that? Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I actually have dozed like that a few times. Just start doing it. Just start doing it. Have you been over to Ireland? I did. I have been, yeah. So do you have family?

You know, I don't know. I haven't 23 and made, so I'm not too sure. Let's make my mom's side is the half white, half Hawaiian. And then my dad is Hawaiian. So I know where his, like his lineage goes, but we, it's kind of gets a little muddy when you talk to my mom's side. I don't really know. Yeah. It's like, I mean, her last name was Smith.

Like, good luck. Yeah. There's a lot of those. Well, I don't think you want to try 23andMe now. They just had a big privacy breach. No, thank you. I remember. Oh, scary. Even spitting in. We did one, like, Ancestry. And, like, spitting in the thing seems odd to give your DNA. Yeah. Spit and give. Like, send it off in the mail. Yeah. I sent mine off. And then it came back. Seems very intimate. That's what I was thinking. Who's getting this? What are they doing? I heard you just, like, get alerted.

When you're like related to, I don't need these people knowing. Yes. No, absolutely not. Someone comes like, Oh, I'm related to you. And then they like come to your house and you're like, I don't know you at all. Please. Like, can I get that notification off? Yeah. Just don't spit it. Don't do it. I recommend not doing it. Yeah. It's literally in my, like in a drawer that I've had for like four years. You're like not doing it. Yeah. When I was bored during pandemic, I was like, let me find all my hair. Instead I drink. Oh,

Well, that's a better option, honestly. That's how you knew. You're like, we're Irish. I was connecting with that side of my heritage. Well, you know your Kobe family history, so that's all that matters. Yeah, that really does matter. Are you close with your mom and dad and...

family not particularly no I don't talk to I don't really talk to my family yeah my father's passed away and I'm like I don't really talk to my mom and I have one sibling one niece that I like am super close with like I kind of raised her and she lives in Portland now she's

Well, in her 30s. Well, she's actually 30. She's 10 years younger than me. And she has two kids and she's doing great. And so she's like my blood family, but like literally like a drag daughter. I would make her take me everywhere. Like she'd have to take me to drag shows and like help me in the back. And so she really put in the groundwork. Wow.

Sounds like a dream come true, actually, to get to help you. She doesn't even know how cool she is in the queer world. Really? How much she's figured out from me. Use that when you go out there in the straight world, please. It'll help. Oh, my God. Is she fabulous, too, then? She must be. She's super fab. She's so fab. Oh, I love that. And you grew up religious. Your family was Jehovah's Witness. Super, yeah. So how did you get out of that?

Oh, I mean, just kept on flipping this hair and then they were like, go away. Oh, were they? Do you think they were dismissive? Well, they were kind of like, ah, you're like way too feminine. And it was like, yeah, like people, you know, in church, they just whisper a lot. And so it was getting awkward. And I think it was like in 14, I was like, I don't like this. Like at 14, I knew I'm like,

You felt the judgment. I felt the judgment. I felt, like, the giggles and, like, my sin of being gay or feminine or whatever, like, a 14-year-old doesn't even realize that they are. It's just being projected, and they're, like, kind of told what you are and then told that what you are naturally is bad. So, like, it was, you know, it was a real mind mess. And then...

I'm watching these people and they're such hypocrites because like that guy is laughing at me for being gay, but like, you're just got this girl pregnant, but you're dating her cousin and like, Oh, but you guys are going to be fine. I don't want like, yeah. And like, I can't even stand like an hour to on a Sunday with you people. Why would I want like everlasting life in heaven? You're like, get me out of this. Get me out of this. Before I get, yes. That,

But then my family was like, yeah, I get it. But I sometimes wonder if it was just because it was easy to just be like, yeah, you don't have to come so we don't have to explain you either. So they continued to go even when you left. Yeah, and I would be at home and the brothers and sisters would come and I would have to hide upstairs while they were visiting. Like their own brothers and sisters would come? No, of the congregation. They would come and pay house calls and

yeah and then they just like you go up in the room yeah i couldn't even imagine that as like a teenager it sucks yeah it's like locked away like yeah like love you but go away like shame so were you was your were your parents supportive outside of that though outside of the church like just when you're home no like it was just really yeah all of them were really in in drank all the kool-aid for sure like all my brothers and sisters so it was a hard one but um

It's funny when you, like, win a competition about doing something that they made fun of you about how they come along. Did they come along, though? They probably would if I would have let them in. Okay. So they tried. Maybe. Isn't that interesting? Because then is there any part of you that was, like, even though they treated you so horribly, where you're just like, well, at least they can see me now. Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. I'm a Leo, for sure. Right, right. Because even now just seeing you on TV just everywhere, you think they're, like, watching and being like, oh, damn. Oh, I'm sure they're irritated. Yeah. And they never try to reach out, though.

No, they're like pretty stubborn too. Like they're probably like don't want to. That's why you gotta support your kids. Yeah. They're going to take care of you. Yeah. Like be nice to them. They're going to take care of you when you're old. They would be all over the world with you. This lavish lifestyle. Oh, I would have spoiled. Oh my gosh. Makes Christmas easy though. Yeah, that's true.

Yes, honestly. They weeded themselves out. It was perfect timing. Yeah. It was nice. And it's good that you were able to like find support outside of that then too. And then you just realize, oh, my queer family was just the ones that never gave up. Yeah. That never like judged, like celebrates you. So yeah, that's always important and dear to my heart. So those are the people I'm going to,

live my life with. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason why mukbangers win every professional eating contest, just like there's a reason why Morgan & Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Today's episode is sponsored by Morgan & Morgan. With over $25 billion recovered for over 500,000 clients, Morgan & Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation.

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That's F-O-R the people dot com slash Trish or pound law pound 529 from yourself. This is a paid advertisement. Thank you so much to Morgan and Morgan for sponsoring today's episode. What would you say? What age did you found? You said dance when you dance. So were you like 16? Yeah, like around 14, 15. I stopped the chants.

the church and then found dance through school. It was like a friend of mine, Janelle. She was a ballet dancer in my school, but we didn't have in my school. She was like about like she went to a dance company and she would always have her ballet slippers like tied to her backpack. I thought she was so cool. But of course she would get teased for being the one ballet girl. It's so weird. Kids are so weird. They have like a

something that they're like dedicated to and they're really good at and they're like you're weird yeah that's awful how dare you have goals yeah how dare you be talented at something so she kind of was like I would think it was like play dancing for like a like a homeschool like pride or like a home pride a homeschool pride not pride I wish like a homeschool like homecoming

Homecoming. Yeah, that's the word. They should have homeschool pride, though. They need homeschool pride. So like a little homecoming dance? Yeah, we were doing like a little dance off within like each class, like the sophomores were battling the seniors kind of thing. And I was up there and she was like, you should come to dance, like my dance class. I'm like, really? And that's where I found like my best friends who were like, you are so gay. Yeah.

I'm like, no, I'm not. Wait, really? Because I was so scared and kind of coming out of the church and still didn't want to, like, I didn't really say that I was, or my parents, we never, like, addressed it. It was just more like, stop acting so feminine before I transitioned. So it was just a little, it was a rocky road and my friends definitely were like,

Girl. Were you happy? Or were you kind of like, oh, no, I don't want to, like, be out? Oh, like, literally. I knew, but I just... It was such a small island. Everyone knows each other. I just thought it was going to be, like, gossipy. I just was assuming from what I knew, which was, like, the gossipy people at the church. I was just so nervous for some reason. And it was, like, kind of my parents were, like, not really...

They were still like, you better not be, you know, like that kind of thing. So I also too was on edge. And then my best friend, like after, I don't know, ballet class or something was like,

asking me something i was like yeah i like girls he's like you do and then he like flies me this like um like a little magazine or like a brochure and it was a program for a trans drag pageant called miss universal show queen and on the cover was the current reigning pageant girl and she was this beautiful hawaiian girl named kaina jacobs this was like in 2000 2000 2001 or two and like

he was like, "Don't you think she's beautiful?" I'm like, "Yes." And I think maybe he kind of knew maybe I would have been like more feminine, not maybe just gay, but like trance. So he's like, "She's beautiful, right? "You gotta come to a show with me." And so I went to this show that night. It was my first drag show I ever saw.

And it was like that moment in She's All That where like she walks into the gymnasium. Yeah, the red dress. Like, yeah. And everyone sees. It's like you're at home. You found your people. Wow.

And they never, and I'm like, sign me up. And I saw like Trans Drag there. It was so cool. Like, I still remember that show. Oh my gosh. That's so vividly. And that's so progressive back then. Cause even RuPaul's Drag Race didn't have a trans one until 2018, was it? Yeah. So that was back in 2004 or something. Yeah. And it was really nice. I feel like Trans Drag was very like regional. Like they had, we had a lot in Hawaii. There's a lot in Texas. There's a lot in Miami and like Florida. Lots in Atlanta. Yeah.

But a lot of West Coast or maybe just like mainstream media, they didn't really have a lot of trans women doing drag. You know, they were just relegated to doing sex work or being fetishized or being murdered. So for us to like actually who started the art to be part of the art now is like really exciting. And then you started with drag then at 17. Yeah. Yeah. And then. OK, ready? Ready for the timeline? Yeah. 17, drag. OK. 18, graduated. 19, tech.

Oh my gosh. You just dove right into it. I flipped that cap. Wait. Yeah. Oh, that's exciting. How old were you when you got? 19. Yeah. I started seeking hormones and like doing that while I was graduating. Like, yeah. Oh my gosh. I was being all stealth. Isn't that the best too? And then it got so weird. Like I was looking so in the middle. I had to like make a decision. Oh yeah. So I was like, okay, I have to like. Did you have the Ashley Simpson haircut at this point? It was almost there. It was like.

It started as like Zac Efron kind of, you know? - Ooh, love that though. - Like High School Musical. - Oh, my favorite. - And then it was trying to get to Ashley Simpson. - Okay, you have to go, oh so you didn't even wear wigs, you're doing your real hair at this point. - Yes, and then I was like flat ironing it and just like Paul Mitchell platinum. - You probably look so hot though, actually. That's actually kind of-- - And it was like Pussycat Doll time, so it was like the belt for a skirt.

And like you really didn't eat a lot. It was like a corset and jeans. - And with your body, did you have your belly out then too? - Oh yeah, always. - I wanted my belly out so bad. I was too self-conscious, but that was the time to wear it out. - But that low-vice was so hard. - And it was coming back, I see. - That centimeter of a zipper. - It looked good though. Can I say I miss it?

I could never pull it off but the high waisted now just doesn't do it for me. I loved the low waisted. I do. I do like a little more relaxed. Yeah because your stomach you got to show it off but yeah getting boobs was first. I remember mine was 21 when I got my boobs and I was just like I loved it. It was just like just such an empowering feeling. I don't know. I still love it. I know like big boobs are not a thing anymore. People are brilliant at like no boobs these days but which is cute. I like it too. I love like Lily Rose Depp but I

I'm Y2K, big boobs. Okay, we like that. When he did the barbed wire, I was just like, I cop.

That was when I really like fell in love with you because Pam is like the icon. Yeah. She's a role model. She's the pink print. Oh my God. I love that. She is the pink print. And you're just everything about it was like the glam. Everything about it was just like so perfect. It was so fun to do. The way you can like get into a character is like, again, I just love it so much. I like appreciate that art form so much. I think that's why I like acting. I can lose myself in like one of these voices in here. Yeah.

can be a character. I've heard voices. Yeah, I hear voices too. Sometimes it's a little. Like, when is the problem? Like, when you hear them or when you start answering? I think when you answer. That's why I always ask my therapist, can you think of

me? I feel like I hear. No one's ever thought that of me. Because I would hear them and everyone says, okay, their inner voice is their whatever. Yeah, but do you talk back? Yeah. Have you? Sometimes. Absolutely. We argue. We go back and forth. Okay, that's wild. We have a debate. You don't have to talk about this if you don't want, but do you have mental illness in your family? Your mom had bipolar. Yeah, she's bipolar. And how is that?

I mean, and my sister's actually diagnosed bipolar at a young age. So she went the route of medicine and my mom was just really not about doing that for herself. So I saw like what treated and or, you know, diagnosed and treated and untreated, undiagnosed bipolar is and it is...

Hard in both, you know? Cause like I would see my sister being a bit of a shell and she would be so medicined up and like, she would just be like kind of like an empty blank and it was hard to see when she would have episodes. And, um,

The wild thing is with my mom, like, she... I just assumed that, like... I just assumed mothers were crazy. Oh, okay. You thought everyone was like... Yeah. They just would go up and down. And then I went to, like, a friend's house. Yeah. And then I was like, that's how moms act? Like... Yeah. Oh, like, that is so wild. And I remember my best friend, Lindsay, we were, like, playing with my nieces outside and we were, like, riding...

little tricycles like with my niece and we were like in high school and my nieces were younger my mom started yelling she was having one of her episodes that we all just were like yeah it's just her going she threw a fork at me and it like landed in my arm and my friend was like I'm never coming back here again like she's like I was like freaking out and she still to this day tells me that story and I'm like but she's still my best friend from then which is wild but and what did you think of it oh my

It's crazy. It's crazy how you like as a kid, because I mean, you're, you're the person who's supposed to keep you safe is there and they're not. So you are going to assume that you're safe. You know, as a kid, you're just going to make sure that, oh, like I'm actually fine. These people are okay because you can't call a lawyer. You can't call CPS. You can't do anything. So you literally will make it work.

and then become a really good people pleaser when you're an adult. Oh, no. Yeah. That's my biggest fear. I have borderline personality disorder and then when I have children, that was like my, definitely like, okay, I need to get it together because I would snap, I would spiral and it's like, it's the scariest thing and obviously, like you said, kids are so helpless in this situation and so being a,

daughter of your mom having bipolar and having those, like, it's like not okay. And you're so cool because you've like, you can like laugh it off and stuff like that. But I would imagine it set something off, you know, it has to be some sort of like trauma, even if you don't feel it, you know. Oh no, it manifested in so many ways in my life. Absolutely. Yeah. I try to handle it with a bit of grace and, but yeah, it's so, it's so hurts or so hits and still trying to like navigate that and understand and like not feel

continue the cycle, you know, not take those habits. Cause knowing like, Oh, I maybe am not a narcissist or I don't have narcissists.

personality disorder but I was raised by one so all I know is a narcissist traits and so I had to unlearn that and and not attract that like do you find in your like adult life that you're able because you kind of went zero contact with her that was your way of handling it yeah so that's like a good way but do you find like later on in life where you're attracting people like your mother absolutely yeah yeah and I can I can definitely tell that or sometimes when I'm my mother

You know, and like, yeah. And like situations of, you know, just random situations of how I would handle stress. It would be like, oh, like I'm getting a bit like her. And that's something I got to monitor. Like why? You know, where did that come from? Yeah. Because that's like the hardest part is not like I couldn't recognize it. Like my triggers or my spiral, you know what I mean? So it's like the fact that you could recognize it is amazing. I think I was always like obsessed with her as like a case study as a kid because I really, really wanted to fix her.

Like, oh, if we could just, like, tell her to, like, chill out and, like, everything will be fine and, like, we're not the enemy, all these things. And it just wasn't clicking. And, you know, then that develops, like, to an adult being, like, having, like, crazy control issues. And then, you know, those things will manifest. But just, like, just...

watching and observing how she was really made me like want to understand myself and like my brain and constantly question if I, you know, have some sort of mental illness or anything like that. And having it in my family, even another sister, it's pretty common, especially in like a lot of Hawaiian families. You know, there's a lot of undiagnosed, untreated mental illness that it's just not talked about too. Like it's like,

you know, it's a sign of weakness to identify that. And then you're just giving your kids really bad habits. Yeah. Yeah. To not show up as like a good human, you know, in the world. It's the untreated part for sure. Cause you know, I've gone through therapy and like group therapies and it's like when you finally get that diagnosis and you get the help, like it just like, Oh, you talk about it and then it like lifts, it gets less by just like, you think you're going to talk about it. It's going to make it worse. Yeah. But actually you talk to monster. It actually makes it like,

go away and they become like a subtle controllable thing. Yes. Controllable is like a key. Manageable. Manageable. Yes. Because it never goes away, but like to manage it, it's like, you have to do it for your family, but it's, it's amazing that you got that at like such a young age. Yeah. And I swear, I think like my queerness, my transness to like kind of cut through that and to see like, you know, um, the choices I was making were really, uh, grounded in, um,

and being a good person and, you know, wanting to take care of myself and not just listening to what the church or what,

you know, my parents are telling me. That's why I, yeah, I looked at the queer community too for that reason because it's just like embracing and just like, I don't know, just embracing everyone and like, you know, just making everyone feel like accepted where church is supposed to be that, family is supposed to be that and it's just not for a lot of people. it's just so operated on fear. Yeah. You know, families are just, moms and dads are just conditioned to like be fearful of their kids leaving, of them doing something wrong so they can control it and then,

And that's how church and government operates. I know. I hope in like 2025 or 2035 it changes. Have you gone back to your island? And is it more open now where people aren't making fun of the femboys or anything like that? You know, Hawaii is an interesting little microcosm because everyone knows a trans person or everyone knows another mahu or their cousin is one or their sister's one. So it's not really that...

like, uncommon to see, but I don't, I feel like there's still this level of them and us also, like, which is, which is fine. But like when, when, when topics come about for all of us to like help each other, I think like sometimes the straight community doesn't really

you know, fall in line with us or like help us out. But we're always there helping everyone. That's the thing. I know. It really is true. I just, yeah. Hopefully it will change like that. I think, you know, I talk to people who have kids now and stuff like that and it's like they don't really put like, they don't have to come out as anything. You know, it just becomes. The Gen Zers, I tell you. They're really. They're helping. That's my thing too. I always,

think that like on tiktok i really like appreciate this whole like new world of just open and there's no labels even about anything and i think it's like so beautiful to see and hopefully it it's nice it's like what we fought for yeah like we were just trying to exist for and you're seeing it in real time for us which is nice like they'll stand up and be like you are not doing that you are not calling them that this is a pro dance do you love do you love to see it because you've been there from like our generation like early 2000s where it was just like not even not accepted but just like not

talked about. Yeah. So now it's like very open and very appreciated by so many people. Do you like love seeing the, I love seeing it. I love seeing the growth and like the, the, the normalization of it, which is great. And it just needs to keep on being and just like being like another, like another cloud in the sky. Like, yeah. Yeah.

And you're like such a huge part of it too. And I like watch you in interviews and stuff like that. It's like just you being you, you know, is like so inspiring. I think it's so great. Thanks. Thank goodness. I don't know anything else. No, it's not the case too. It's like it's so much easier just to be yourself than like try and be someone else. Yeah. We're both going to be at World Pride in June at Washington, D.C. Are you excited? It's my first Pride. Really? Performing. Yeah, I

gone to like WeHo Pride but like World Pride. Have you been? Well, I've done World Pride in New York. I think like 2018, 19. It was like before pandemic. It was really fun. Was it? It was so fun. It was wild. I'm nervous. What did they say? Like 35,000 people are going to be there. I was like, my shows are like 2,000 people. So I'm just like, oh no.

It's going to be insane. It's wild. I can't wait. Do you know what day you're going? Friday or Saturday? I'm on Saturday. Oh, no. We're on opposite days. Oh, that might work then. Wait, what? Oh, you'll be there Friday. Okay, awesome. I'll be there Friday. In addition to. I will watch you on Friday. Okay. And then you'll come see me on Saturday. I would love to. Yes. I've never seen you live in your performance. See, that's why we're not supposed to be on the same day. Right. So we can watch. We can see each other. Thank God we're not the same day. If I had to go after.

Before you or after you, I'd be like, no, absolutely not. Because I looked at the lineup and I said yes just because I got the, I was like, oh, they asked, okay. But then when I saw, it's like Sasha, Kobe, RuPaul, Slater, JLo, Troye Sivan. I was like, what the heck? Now they got Dochi and like Cynthia Erivo. Oh my God. It's insane.

They're on Sunday, so we can watch them. Okay. Yeah, I'm so excited. So are you doing, like, what you would do on Strip, on your tour? Are you doing... For this, it's more like I have a couple of Pride numbers that I've been working on, like, some good, like, mixes, and I'll be rotating it for the season. Okay. And, yeah, it'll be really fun. You're bringing dancers? Not for this one. Okay. You're going to go solo out there? Yeah. Solo, I'll be doing, like, some numbers, and then I'll be talking, and then doing a little more dancing. Okay.

That's when the talent pays off. When you're like a good dancer, that's all you need. I need all. I can lose myself for a good 15. Like, I'm like, okay, cool. That's like the truest performer to go out there by yourself. Like, honestly, like I know you obviously can. We've seen it, but it's just like, I need tips on it for sure. Well, it's, that's the hard thing. It's like,

Speaking of tips, like I usually will do like a long 15 minute number if I'm collecting tips and like brunch. Oh, right. But it's like, okay, I'm on stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. Right. So, yeah. It's a whole different world then. Yeah, it's a different beast. But yeah, I'm doing it now more often. It's been, it's easier than just like a five minute number. Yeah.

But you go like full acrobatics, gymnastics. You do like everything. I give allusions. I allude to that. Well, you allude really well because I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm like, if you really watch, I'm not. I'm just kind of rolling on the ground. You're so graceful because I remember, again, the finale just like being like, how are they doing? Like the stage is so like little. It's just like I'd be falling off that stage. It's insane. And the heels too. And the heels. And it was like kind of, I think it was a bit like slippery. Yeah.

Because it was like that shiny floor. What do you do in that situation? I just kind of grip. Crip and grip on those cliffhangers. Amazing. I've been wearing sneakers lately because I could do a kitten heel. Everyone gave Mistress on your season for a kitten heel, but I love it. I mean, especially when you're on stage for so long. Yeah. Or this season was Corey King with the heels and Ru called her out and I was like, but honestly, we need that.

We need those. And last year was Safiya's heel. Remember Safiya had the same heel? Have you ever worn a kitten heel? Oh, yes. I mean, I had a kitten heel boot that I would like just dance into the ground. Yeah. It was like a little booty. I got it from like Akira one time. But you didn't wear it on Drag Race. No, no. I mean, I danced that into the ground. I lost that with the pandemic probably. Did you ever take heel classes? How did you like learn? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Heels glasses came after I feel like I was already in heels. So I just kind of always put on like the drag boots. Just figured it. Yeah. I was always on like my tippy toes. I would call it my invisible heels. Oh, so you just practice like that. Always walking around in tippy toes as a kid. Yeah.

So it kind of just felt better. Wait, as a kid? As a kid. Did you think of it as heels or you were just naturally doing it? Oh, I was fully like thinking I was in my classic years. Oh my gosh. That is such a serve. Of course your parents are like, could you stop it? No, I love it. My girl's two and a half and she does makeup. I'm like, please learn makeup so you can do my makeup one day. Oh, yes. If she learned heels early, I'd be so proud because I could never walk in heels. You know what I mean? I'd be like that.

everything. Oh no, that's the coolest thing. Actually. I would embrace it more. I'm like, let's do the walk. Let's model. One more time. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's actually, if you ever need a patchy coach for your daughter, I tell him all the time. I'm like, we're putting her in patent. Cause that's what I wanted so bad. That's actually on my algorithm is so much like Miss like universe walks and Miss Philippines. It's just all one. That's the thing though. Make me smile. Like,

Just automatic. I can watch a pageant and just see a girl get crowned. I know. Watch her smile during swimsuit and I'm just so happy. Yeah. And you've been in there. You've been there. So, you know, I haven't even been there, but I still, I used to, do you remember the movie Drop Dead Gorgeous? Yes. I loved it. Voice of an angel, that one. I loved the movie. I loved it.

I wanted to be in Beauty Passion so bad because of it. Oh my gosh. So good. I do love it. Have you ever done, you should do like a reality show, like who's Miss Kim in the South? You know, the one where she like teaches the girls how to do everything. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You should do it where you like teach. Well, I guess you do like, you have like a drag, an upcoming drag artist competition, right? You do that in your shows? I did that on my show, yeah, for like to be my, well, it started as like my opening act, but actually we incorporated them in the show. So every city I went to was a different drag artist from that city. Wow.

I got to showcase them and they got to represent their hometown or wherever they're from. And yeah, it was really great. And I had like the internet decide. Like we picked everyone. Like everyone, there was like so many audition tapes. Like 600 audition tapes for 20 cities. And I sat and watched them all. You did? Yeah. And then I have like...

of like a hard time being the bad guy. So I was like, I picked the top three and like I made the internet like vote. - 600 is wild. - Yeah. - Oh my God. That your show is like drag race. People are just like applying to be on it.

It was really fun. And then a couple of the girls that were opening, like Corey King, Lana Jarae. Oh, they opened for you? They opened for me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It was wild. Love them. Do you watch the current season now? Yeah. Yeah. That's so good to see them. I'm excited. The top four. I know. I'm excited.

I'm excited too. I literally was like – I DM them all the time because I just get really into it because of your season. I really got into everyone. You know what I mean? Obviously, I watched Sugar and Spice, but then I was like – obviously, when I saw you, I was like, oh my gosh. And then I loved Mistress because I related. I was like, okay, can't heal Queen. Like I just – and then watching all the seasons after it, it's been amazing. Bob the Drag Queen, he recently said – we met him at Wicked and he was amazing. But he recently said that if RuPaul is to retire, which –

probably at some point would step down from Drag Race, you would be the best host for it. Is that what Bob said? Yes. Are you serious? No. Why didn't your Bob say that? Wow. Would you ever

consider it if RuPaul stepped down. Oh, I mean, 100. I mean, I feel like I like love doing it already. Yeah. And people look to you because I was thinking with the show of everyone's like 600 people submitting for your tour. They think of you as now like, yeah, drag mother to everyone. That's amazing. I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. Like hosting a show. I would love to. Yeah. Especially something like drag and just like helping what,

helping the people who are about to shape what drag is. That would be amazing to have a hand in it. - It would be so cool, 'cause I watched earlier seasons

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To claim this special double roses offer, go to 1-800-Flowers.com slash Spotify. That's 1-800-Flowers.com slash Spotify. And Rue was a lot more like in the workspace in the earlier seasons. And it would be so cool to see you like, because you are so like not only knowledgeable, but you're so good at like teaching too. So I just feel like that would be like the perfect thing. It would be a lot of fun. I do get excited about that. Would you ever do all stars? No.

Did they ask you? They haven't asked me. What? I don't think there's an All-Stars All-Winners coming out yet, so maybe when there's All-Winners. Oh, so it's people who haven't won yet on All-Stars? Yeah. Oh, okay. So they had one All-Winners season right before ours aired. Yeah, you gotta watch that one. That was so good. Who won? Jinx.

It was like two different, you gotta watch it. It's so good. I love Jinx. I didn't, see, I don't know her lore like that. I know her now, obviously, because she's like a theater girlie. Have you seen her in the Pirates of Penzance? I haven't. I want to see it. And then she was on Doctor Who. I didn't get to see that. She's just, Little Shop of Horrors. She's just so great. Little Shop, I was like so gay. Because that's like the dream role. I was like, when I saw her in that, Chicago. Chicago. She's just doing it. She's a true...

Theater kid. And like loves it. And like just an actress. Just... So good. So funny. She was in your Homestretch series? She was. She came to the show. She was, I think, doing Little Shop when we were there in New York. And her and Nymphia stopped by. And just on. Just like...

And an old school actress. It was just wild to watch. Like a star. Like the old Hollywood star. Just has presence. And you know those New York theater people. They just know how to command. Even telling a story in a room. You're like, is this a play? Is this a scene? We're in it. Where's the camera? Just on. Just on all the time. Yeah. That was so cool to see in that.

She was so funny. Like she had the best line in the whole home stretch. She was talking about, cause I was like, Oh, we're waiting because there's a, there was like a conference with a bunch of like former presidents. And so everything was backed up. The traffic was not getting people in. And she was like, well, my first one woman show I had here in New York and the Pope was in town. She's like, and that's the second time religion screwed me over.

I mean, without a beat. So smart. Just so quick. So clever. So funny. I know. Her stand up on Drag Race was so good, too. Because we're like I said, we're backlogging now. We're going backwards. So I think we're now on the Gia Gunn, Bianca season. OK. That's like six or eight. Six, I think. Yeah. So we're building up. Five was great.

Five was wild with Roxy. Oh, wow. But even like the challenges and just like, I don't know. It's just such a different time. I don't know how long ago that was. That was so wild because those girls, that was a wild, wild West. They didn't know what was going on. They just threw them something like, let's see if this works. And it was like, some worked and some didn't, but they were down. The girls were down to play. They were. Like, yes and. Giving America's next best.

model like it was giving like is this okay are you gonna shave her head yeah that's what it was giving i was like damn they really go all in and then season one was it rave is she does she do rupaul's makeup now yes yes she does someone just told me that they were like oh yeah raven's like the i was like yeah so crazy oh my god keep it in the fam i love that oh my god no it's it's amazing and then um reality tv would you ever do that

You know, it's so wild because for someone who's been on a reality TV competition show, I really don't watch a lot of reality TV. It just gets me like socially anxious. Survivor, Traitors. I used to watch Survivor a lot. And if I do watch, it's like Survivor.

Big Brother or like cooking reality shows like Top Chef. That's you at eight. You said you were like cooking and pretending you were on TV. Yeah, still. That's like my sweet spot. So maybe would you do Celebrity Chef or Celebrity Big Brother first? Oh, gosh. Probably Celebrity MasterChef or I really want to do Celebrity Jeopardy.

I'm like an undercover trivia freak. Wait, really? Yes. Do you like do the competitions? Yeah, that's why I'm sort of laughing. Wait, really? Are you just doing it like in the car or are you doing the competitions? Oh, I want to do like on the show, like go on to Jeopardy. Oh my gosh. Celebrity week. Would you do a regular Jeopardy, not pop culture one, not the Colin Jones one? Like the one that they have the celebs in, like a little easier. Okay.

But do you play Jeopardy? Do you watch it on TV? I love it. Wait. Yeah, because I did read it. You were like a history. You're like history and stuff. That's crazy. That's so – it's something you wouldn't think. Now that you said that, I was like, wait, did I read this wrong? So you loved – did you like school or you just learned on your own? Yeah, I kind of like loved – I liked history and –

Like literature. Like I love like Greek mythology. Anything like escapism. Anything that took me out of this reality. So I just – and I also just love like learning all the mistakes we've done and watching us do it again. It's so funny. I think we're supposed to try and learn from those. So we're not learning. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. And it's just like we're kind of stuck there in the same thing. Yeah. Just in a loop. Yeah. So it's funny to watch it all come together. But I don't know. I just – I find it fascinating. Yeah.

just to like know things. But yeah, all that stuff is good. Like Greek mythology, like that is kind of like. Yeah. And like then that like Greek mythology, like in love with that during like elementary and then that going into loving X-Men, like Marvel comics, like superpowers was like the trans gay powers. That was always like the thing that,

this is going to be like your biggest power, but people made fun of it and like just gravitated towards that. You should be in the new Avengers doomsday. Wait, is there, is there no trans superhero? I think there are a few that are like written that are like non-binary or trans, but never have been portrayed. And so in like pop culture, yeah. As like their superpower. Yeah. Or like, yeah. Or like show them, maybe it's like a little character in like certain movies, uh, comic books, but. Oh,

Oh my gosh. That would be... Some nice uncharted territory that I think we need to... You and me? Dive into. The hottest superhero. Because you already have the body. All the girl superheroes have the hot body. Yeah, I got to get it now. Oh my God. I feel like it's better than ever. I was looking at some of your recent stuff and I was like, damn, that's...

That body is amazing. It's pure stress. Awful airport food. Do you, can you eat whatever you want when you go to the airport? No, it's, that's the hard part. Like you just like, just like sucks. Everything's like plat, like in plastic wrap or fast food. Yeah. So what do you do when you travel? Cause I'm currently in that travel mode and. Uh,

Pre-pack? Pre-pack like snacks, but like I still, I'm a snacker. Like I like pretzels or like, like I like a little sweet. Yeah, same. Or I'll just kind of wait until I get to the place and like have like something really good. Yeah.

of that city. Do you do that? Yes. See like what's the popping thing? Love that. I always love that too. We love going, like I love, love getting super stoned, finding like a cool restaurant to eat at and like going to the museum and like just like kind of like. That's her. That's her. And I was like eating, yes. You're like then we go to the museum. And then like just super stoned and like look at art. It's like,

- Oh. - Super fun in like random neighborhoods, in like random cities. - I love that, oh my gosh, you just go and stare at it. - Stare at it, yeah. - Okay, I love that. That's kind of everything. What's your favorite, like after smoking, what's your favorite like food that you've had on tour? - Ooh, ooh, like meal or like just like a snacky snack? - Meal maybe, yeah. - Like my go-to, like I probably have like two to three times a week, is like Thai green curry, spicy Thai green curry and rice, and then like the mango sticky rice and coconut milk.

Wait, you can just get that on Postmates or what? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Here in LA? Uh-huh. Oh my gosh. I don't think we have that around. It sounds so good. It's so yummy. Ooh. Okay. I don't know. Like I grew up kind of very Hawaiian Asian food. So that's like my comfort food. That's okay. Yes. I love it. I love it. I had it last night. It's just the best. When you have that meal that you love, it's just so cozy. I was like, I was home after like eight days of being gone. I'm like, I want...

The food. Something good. Yes. That I know. Oh, no. That's like the absolute best thing. So I love that. What's your fave? What's yours? Like what's your go-to like? I'm just finished doing a bunch of shows and I'm home. Well, mine is not. I don't think anyone would agree with mine. I just love a Domino's cheese pizza. Yeah. I love a medium pepperoni. Do you? Okay. I like the pan. Okay. I like it.

Yeah, I like the pan one. It's good. They have a new cheesy crust. I'm not getting sponsored, but everyone on TikTok is getting sponsored by Domino's right now. And I cosplayed a Domino's driver. Like, I love Domino's with all my heart. And I just don't understand how I didn't get that sponsorship, you know? That is so... That is...

A word, Domino's. I know. And they have so many. Is there ever someone you see that gets sponsored by something and you're like, that would be. I would love that. Yeah. And you're like, that should have been me. Well, you have your own brand. You have hair. You have Sasha Poe hair, which is. Do. We have a ponytail line. We're coming out with extensions now and venturing off into more products. So stay tuned. Clippins. Clippins.

Some clip-ins? Yeah. We're looking at like lace fronts. Yeah. That – I need the lace front. That's like half the lace front, you know, so I can just do the top of my head and then keep it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be everything. Ponytails. Little toppers. You're queen of pony and so I did my ponytail today. Beautiful. I know. And it's been on for like an hour, over an hour. No, a couple hours. How is it feeling? That's what I'm asking. It's like I literally before you came – Is that one pin? That's what I was talking about. That's what I'm like literally.

- It's right in there. He wasn't feeling the scalp, he's feeling it by the pony. You're gonna loosen the pony, get by the scalp. How do you-- - It's so funny 'cause you do have the, I do it until it hurts. - Yes. - And then I find that one pin that's hurting, then I release that pin. - So you can find it 'cause you do your own sometimes. - Yeah, yeah, or like, I'll be like, I can't find it. Find it for me, so. - Even when they do it, I'm like, you have to move it out. That hurts. - Or I'm gonna know, I'm like, oh no, I'm not gonna be happy.

Like, if I have to do a meet and greet and this thing is in my head, like, I'm not going to be able to smile. So let's figure this out. That's what I was going to ask you. So what's your tips to, like, surviving a ponytail? Have a good, like, foundation. Like, your hair in a knot, right? But, like, put a little, like, protective thing, like another little wig. I'll, like, turn upside down or inside out and put it as, like, what we call a coco. So you have, like, a little bump. And then you can put your fall on and then wrap your ponytail. That way, that's...

That's where the pins will go in. Okay, so it's not going- So it's not going in the scalp. Mine was like digging into my scalp. Yeah, that's the hard part. But also the pulling. The pull, I was gonna say. Yeah, what's that? First you have to get over like the pull of the bun. Yeah. And then how to like make that nice and like not so tight. Yeah. But you still need it like snatched. It's a whole thing. I've had like-

- And like bumps and speed bumps in my head from like crowns and bobby pins and ponytails. - Poor Ariana Grande, I feel that was the same way. She was doing that snatch pony. - Oh, I mean, if we're doing snatches, yeah. That's what I really wanted with this ponytail for it to be light. The Sasha Colby ponytail. And it's like a one pin wonder. Like you just put one pin in the drawstring, you tie it up. - Oh, so it's one that wraps around and then you put the pin in. - Yeah, just a little comb.

You pull the drawstring, then you wrap that drawstring to give it a little taunt. Then you can wrap hair on the bottom. You can take a little bit and wrap it to make it look like the pony because that's the thing. You need that wrap hair moment to make it look tight or else it just looks like a thaw, which is great, but we're doing ponies, kids. Yeah, we need to snatch. And you are the queen of ponies, so...

And I used to hand sew my own human ponies and do all that. That's time consuming. Also, you need to know how to work with human hair and how to flat iron it when you're taking it on the road. I wanted to eliminate all that. And price. If you're watching Drag Race and you like me, you're a cheap gal. Yeah.

I don't know. It gets pricey. It's pricey to be you. No, it is pricey. It is. It's a stand sale. That's why some of your outfits and stuff like that, I was like, you know what? We're going to do Fashion Nova today. Because sometimes I'll do the costume, but I'm like, it gets expensive. It gets so expensive. But the pony, it was worth it. But it is one of those things where I was like, how does she do it? Because it's, I mean, you feel like, for a reason. You feel a little. Absolutely.

a little lightheaded you're just like oh and then you can't wear the tapes with this well i guess dochi now makes it cool where she's wearing the tapes on her forehead which is thank god because the first time i wore it was um when lux was on and i was i wanted to make sure i had the snatch and i wore them and they were so great because i could hide with wig but then you can't do it with a pony oh i know but i love that dochi and i love when dochi takes that off her eyes it's literally like just for show it's so good i love it and those do work

work though that was my go to no you gotta watch Drag Race to get all those tips because I really do think did you know that Marlena Dietrich you know the old school actress Marlena Dietrich she used to like take braid like her hair like this to pull back and then like would like pull every for like a little face yes how'd she hide it or she just showed it she put the wigs on over it

wait what era is that like 40s and she was doing wigs over it oh that's so smart yeah i usually do a wig moment because i love to save my hair but that's like a good idea yeah well i was like oh what did that hair like all that pulling was giving you a face that back then when there was really faceless but that was like a wild trick oh my gosh it's good to know now they just do that with like botox it just like can they do like a hairband

A hairband thing? Really? Yeah, it kind of pulls you up. So I've heard, allegedly. Allegedly. Not from experience. Asking for a friend. I know. I've heard like the threading. Like I've heard all the crazy stuff that they can do and I haven't. I haven't tried the threading. And that's all. It's not for a facelift.

I said Facebook at 40. Everything else. I mean, you look amazing. Like, you look so good. The first thing I thought when I saw you, I was just like, oh my gosh, you look as good as you do on TV, you know? Thank you. Because sometimes drag artists, which I love, by the way, when they have that blowout lighting. Oh, yes. And I was like, I want to be on that show just to get that lighting because it looks so good. Just pull a Vaseline on that lens. I look so beautiful.

I was like, that's what we try to do here. Just like blurt out as much as possible. So when I watch Director's Day, because again, watching from season one or like going back now, the lighting has. And you see like the elevation of even like how Rue is like framed. It's so good. They're doing like Kardashian lighting where it's just like, ooh, beautiful. Well, thank you for being here. Before we wrap it up, because I do think your story is like inspiring on so many levels. Obviously, like you're an activist for so many things. If there's any kids out there that were going through something that you went through in childhood, whether that's

church alienation, family alienation, not knowing, being scared, not feeling good enough, what advice would you give them? Oh man. I mean, that is not going to stop once you enter this world, it gets crazy. So if you think about it, like whatever alienation you're going through in your life, right, it's going to prep you to be a stronger person, uh, in, in your adult life. So even if it feels like it's like really hard, just know that you are gaining some like insane, uh,

uh, strength and, uh, fortitude to make you really handle and know who you're like, like what you're, um, like who you are as a person and what you love and take for, uh,

not take for granted, but what you don't take for granted. And I think that's really important. So it gets hard, but you know, you find in the meantime, you find like your tribe, you find your friends, you find the one other gay kid in your school. And if there isn't, you have the whole internet, you know, you can find your people in safe spaces and places that you trust. Like don't go into like crazy deep web things. Yeah.

But yeah, like find your common people that, you know, are like you. And then you get to hopefully go to places like more liberal places, places that accept people.

whoever you are and you'll be just fine. And just know that whatever you're going through now, you don't want that to happen to the next generation and make sure that we do that when we're adults. I love that so much. Or go to a Sasha Kobe show. I'm sure the audience will be very accepting. We are. Yeah. It's a nice crowd at a Sasha Kobe show. It's a fun crowd. And you're announcing your tour next week. Yes, we are. So look out for those dates. I'm so excited to have met you. And like, this was the fun.

You're just like a little doll and you're so, you have such good energy and such good positivity and I'm so honored. Thank you. You too. And like so like honored. What an amazing. I've always loved you but deep diving into you, I really just became so immersed. I watched everything. I watched every single thing there was about you. I do have to find the talent show from 2007. If I find that, I'll send it to you. Do not share it. I know.

we're putting it in b-roll like let's see it right it's totally on b-roll oh my gosh well thank you for coming and i'm looking out for the two i can't wait to smoke it with you thank you i know we'll see we'll see if you need it yes thanks for coming everything's for me and check out shashkobi everywhere she's everywhere world pride yeah check us out at world pride yeah we'll be there friday saturday and sunday watching somebody we'll be doing it baby bye