How Does an Olympic Gold Medalist Balance Medicine and Hockey? | Dr. Hayley Wickenheiser
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Today's episode is brought to you by Dax Copilot from Microsoft. To learn about how Dax Copilot can help you reduce burnout and restore the joy of practicing medicine, visit aka.ms slash knock knock high. That's aka.ms slash knock knock high. Knock knock high.

Hello, welcome to Knock Knock High with the Glockenfleckens. I am Will Flannery, also known as Dr. Glockenflecken. I am Kristen Flannery, also known as Lady Glockenflecken. How's your puzzle coming along? It's coming. I'd say I'm about 75% done. So 750 pieces or so. From her daughter, she got a one... From my... From our daughter. She got... She received a 1,000 piece puzzle. Mm-hmm.

for Christmas. Yes. And you've been working on it for a while. Well, I had to stop. It's been out for a while, but I haven't been working on it for a bit now. So right now, try to explain to me why you like doing this. Because I can't last 30 seconds doing a puzzle. It is the most boring thing I can possibly think about. And that is how I feel about board games. But you like board games. But you're...

It's not like you're playing a game. Puzzling, what are you doing? There's no skill, right? Is there skill involved in puzzling? Sure there's skill. What? How? You look at each individual piece and try to see if it fits. Am I going to piss off the puzzle community? You are because there's all sorts of stuff to it. There's discernment of color, shape,

You might be picking up a piece and trying it all over the place, but that's a very amateur move. I can sometimes often I can just look at the pieces and know where one goes.

You do the outside first. I like to do that. You got to get the border done. But then that's, that's then the fun's over. Then you're done. No, the rest of it is, is the inside and it just sucks because it's hard and there's,

980 pieces. Your border's only 20 pieces? Probably. Something like that. I don't know. Didn't you minor in math? I like that it's a satisfying thing to solve a puzzle, right? Whether that's an actual jigsaw puzzle or it's a thinking puzzle or whatever. It's a satisfying...

thing to solve, but it's also a very meditative process. Like as I'm putting it together, it's like the perfect, well, that's the thing. Usually there's so much stuff happening in my brain. And when I do a puzzle, it's like all that just goes, and I can just, it's like, it takes the exact right amount of mental energy and attention that like I am

I am interested enough to pay attention to it. And then it's just like, I'm just focusing on that. And I can talk. I can do other things. I can think about other things as I'm doing the puzzle. But it's like, it uses a part of my brain. It keeps it busy and out of the way. You know, like when you have a toddler that like...

It's kind of like driving, I guess. Yeah. Where you're, you're think, except driving is more automatic than puzzling is for me. Right. Like you don't have to think so much about driving. We'll take up more of your brain. You just want an activity that's taking up as much of your brain as possible to leave less brain for your horrifying anxiety.

Pretty much. It keeps my brain... This has helped me understand you better. It's probably an ADHD thing also, right? Like it's stimulating enough to help me like...

be able to focus on something else and not on a bunch of like wandering thoughts. And because I also have anxiety, a lot of those wandering thoughts tend to be not so pleasant. You know who probably would have been a world-class puzzler if she tried? Who? Our next guest. Oh, probably. Dr. Haley Wickenheiser. Yes. So if you have never heard of Haley Wickenheiser, this is, she's incredible. This is,

She's a five-time Canadian Olympic medal champion. What do you call them? Medalist. Medalist, yes. She's a medal winner. She's a medal... Goodness. One of the best female hockey players in the world. Seven world championships, six Olympic appearances for Canada, five Olympic medals, just a titan of...

of hockey. And currently she is the assistant GM of player development for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes. All right. As if that's not enough. Also, she's a physician. She sure is. Working in emergency medicine out there in Toronto. And so like she goes and does like hockey stuff during the day and then goes and like works shifts in the evenings. Yeah.

I don't know how she does all of this. It's incredible. And she just definitely uses a lot of the things that she's learned as a high-level athlete. Yeah. Because as we've learned from talking to some of our other guests, there's a lot of skills that overlap between becoming a physician, a practicing physician, and the dedication it takes to...

excel in a sport. So, you know, there's definitely overlapping skills there. Sure. Oh, by the way, she's also an Olympic. She was in the Olympics for softball. Yeah. For one sports, not enough. So just just a phenom of a fascinating person. Yeah. And she has just a

She's had innumerable accolades over the years, and now she's focusing a lot of her attention on medicine, which those of us in medicine, we really appreciate that. So should we get to it? Let's go. All right. Here she is, Dr. Haley Wickenheiser. Hey, Kristen. Yeah. I've got some friends I'd like you to meet. I see that.

You seem a little too friendly with them, I have to say. Aren't they cute? Sure. With the little beady eyes and their little hands. The hands? The claws? I don't know. Appendages. Okay. How about that? That works. Anyway, they just like, they'd like to say hi. Okay. They'd like to say hi. Okay. Wonderful. They're not, they, oh, look, the one's sticking around. It sure is. Right on my mic. These little guys are demodex and they live on your eyelashes. Yeah.

And they can cause flaky, red, irritated eyelids. See, that's not cool. That's a party foul. You just kind of want to rub them. You're not welcome here if you're going to do that. And it's caused sometimes by these little guys. Yep, that's rude. Demodex blepharitis. But you shouldn't get grossed out by this. Okay. All right, you got to get checked out. Yes, get checked out. To find out more, go to eyelidcheck.com. Again, that's E-Y-E.com.

L-I-D check.com for more information about these little guys and Demodex blepharitis. All right. We are here with Dr. Haley Wickenheiser. Haley, thank you so much for joining us. Well, thanks for having me guys. I have a, I have a very important question to start with. Okay. What is more stressful? Sudden death, hockey,

doing an eye exam in the emergency department? Oh, that's a great question. I really suck at eyes. So it depends if it's, uh, you know, acute angle closure or what it is, but, uh, uh,

I would say that nothing probably will be as stressful as sudden death hockey was for me. People ask me that all the time, medicine hockey. And it's just hard to explain why, but there's something about, you know, playing for your country and you'll win or take all that. Medicine has a different kind of stress. But for me personally, that pressure, it'll always be the biggest. That's also what makes, I think,

one of the most exciting sports to see in person. Yes. Because I remember we used to have a... I grew up in Houston. We had...

I don't even know if they still have this. It was the IHL. It was like the kind of like a minor league division of hockey. We had the Houston arrows, which are no longer around. But we got season tickets one year. So we went to, that was the first time I'd ever seen hockey in person. And it was, it was so much fun just being right there by the boards. And then it was that, that sudden death overtime hockey. Like there's nothing as exciting as that. I think in all of professional hockey,

sports in my personal yeah i agree i mean you know 10 bodies crashing around and it's fast and furious and it is very exciting i think for people so um let's i want to start with

You've had just this illustrious career in professional hockey and playing for your country. But let's start when you were a kid. So you grew up, was it Saskatchewan that you grew up? That's good, yeah. Shawnee and Saskatchewan, yeah. A very small town. When did you know you were going to be good at this? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

You know, I suppose I started when I was five in Saskatchewan. It's very cold, not much to do in the small town. So very classic Canadian upbringing where my dad built a rink in the backyard for myself. And we had 30 kids on our block, my younger brother and sister. So I started skating around five and then probably around the age of 10, 11, hockey kind of starts to get, you kind of can see if the kid's going to,

what a kid's going to do. And I started to kind of dominate when I was playing and I was the only girl on boys teams. And so I, I kind of dreamed of being in the NHL and winning a Stanley cup with the Edmonton Oilers and no one told me, yeah, no one told me that that wasn't a thing. You couldn't do that. So I had this dream as a little girl, you know, growing up, I was living in a bit of a, a little bubble out there in Southwest Saskatchewan and,

So I, you know, 12, 13 years old, I started to go to camps and things like that. And, and my, I actually was at a hockey school in, in British Columbia and my mom came running in and said, you'll never believe women's hockey is a full metal sport at the Olympics for 1998. So then I knew I had somewhere to go and that was where I dreamed of that I would play in the Olympics at that point. Yeah.

That's when it was announced? 1998 is when they started? First one, yeah. Oh, wow. Because I think about what youth sports is like right now. Yeah. Because we have two young girls, nine and 12. And it's even at a rec level for things like soccer and basketball.

It gets really intense. And so I wanted to ask you about your upbringing because I imagine since hockey is like the thing to do, I imagine like it's, was it, was it, was it like that? Was it very competitive? Was it,

How much driving did your mom have to do? Oh my gosh, bless you both. My parents, you know, in the middle of nowhere, Saskatchewan, where I grew up, you were driving. Practices, we mostly practiced in town, which was my dad said, if you're going to practice, you carry your own bag to the rink because we only lived a couple blocks away. So if it was in the wintertime,

I put my bag on the toboggan and pull it. And if it was in the summer, I'd throw my bag over my shoulder and carry it. But for games and things like that, they drove literally hours. So it could be like an hour or two just for a game and then back home. So they drove a lot. And that was just how life was. I find now kids in sports, you know, it's...

It's an unfortunate thing because there's early specialization happening in not just hockey, but so many sports where kids go in and if your kid is deemed good, then it's like time to become an Olympian at the age of 10 years old. That's all you're going to do, right? Yeah. And everyone has a skills coach and camps. But for me, I feel lucky because I played hockey and then in the summer, throw my stuff away and play softball, go do swimming, track and field, stuff like that. So I did multi-sport.

growing up, but I don't think it hurt me at all from my development. And it was a good mental break. So I think kids need that. They need that on and off time and time to play and be a kid. But it's a lot of pressure on the parents now to keep up with everybody else. Yeah. Just the amount of transportation that has to happen is unsustainable. It's a lot. It's definitely a lot. They're going to need part-time jobs to pay for gas. Yeah, it's true. So

Long career, you were in four different Olympics?

So six, so five winter, one summer. So I played softball in Sydney in 2000. Got a casual medal in that as well, you know? Yeah, unfortunately we didn't medal, but five winter, four gold, one silver in the winter. Yeah, we should have medaled, but we didn't have a great Olympics. But yeah, it was kind of the thing I did, hockey, softball, alternating through the years and then eventually...

And when my son was born, I had to decide and I had kept with hockey and gave up softball. It was too hard to do both. What position did you play in softball? In softball, I was a pitcher and I played third base and a little in the Olympic level. I played third base in outfield, but mostly third base.

That's amazing. Yeah. And to perform at such a high level in more than one sport and then to go into medicine as a career, like what can't you do? And see, this is another thing. Like, you know, someone...

A normal person would be like, oh, I've, you know, a 24 year, you know, history of being in the Olympics and playing professional hockey. Some some would call that enough.

for like a career. But then at some point, and I want you to fill in the gaps here, you decided, oh wait, I'm going to do another thing that's really hard and become a physician. So help us figure out that transition here. Well,

What pathology do you have? Exactly. I ask myself that daily. Like, what the hell did I get myself into? But, you know, growing up again in Chauvin, in my little town, I always... You keep saying little town. How little? How many people? 1,800. 1,800.

So that's pretty little. Very little. Yeah. That's little for most people. So my parents were teachers and I always liked science. A little girl in our community on our street actually was backed over by a grocery delivery van and she was seriously injured when I was about 10 years old. So we spent months walking back forth the hospital as she was recovering. And it was really inspirational, really impacted my life. The physicians and nurses there and said, okay, one day I want to,

be a doctor. So simultaneously, as I was playing hockey, my, you know, my mom and dad talked a lot about like, what's your life after plan? You know, you should think about, you're not going to make millions of dollars doing this, you know, what, you know, one day it's going to end. And when you're 21 years old, you're like, it's never ending. But, you know, as I got to the end in my later thirties, you know, it was like, okay, what's the, what's the life after plan? So it was always medicine. And, and while I was playing, I spent as much time in the training room, hanging out with our

trainers as I did probably in the dressing room through the years, not because I was always injured, but I was just so interested in what was going on. And I just loved, I love the hands-on aspect of medicine. And then in my last couple of years playing with the national team, I started shadowing a friend of mine who is an emergency physician at the Foothills Hospital in Calgary. It's a level one drama center. So what I would do is after games when I couldn't sleep, I would walk across into the emerge and

spend four or five hours there with her. And so I got in the last probably three, four years, I got to see a lot of stuff and I, I knew right away that the emerge was my place. And I laughed so hard at your videos will, because as I said earlier, they got me through medicine, medical school, but the emerge skit that you did is like so true. And yeah, like it's just, it's amazing how you nail all these specialties, but yeah,

I feel like one day you should have it where he comes in with a hockey stick as an homage to Haley. I know, yeah.

if you ever see that you'll know i was gonna say i wondered if you if you would relate to some of the rural medicine stuff that i do too just because of the environment you grew up in amazing and i we send that or send those around in the rural one i said to all my rural uh emerge friends uh we all laugh at it so you're bang on with all your stuff and uh it's very good i like the levity in medicine because medicine's serious but it

At the same time, people take themselves too serious a lot of times. So it's a nice, uh, it's a nice play on the profession and, uh, you know, it is a serious thing that you do, but you gotta have fun with it too. Well, I definitely appreciate the Canadians because my, my first, uh, my first, um, conference that I was invited to because of the Glock and Fleck and stuff was Toronto.

was was emergency medicine update i want to say em update which is a thing and it's a thing yeah i went to it last year yeah and that was actually my first introduction to what emergency physicians are like when they kind of let like as a group when they when they're when they're just out having fun and oh they know how to have fun yeah that's for sure for sure they do yeah it's a different uh it's a different beast i think uh emergency medicine but so it was always

So, and so medicine, it was always kind of there, you know, growing up, you know, you're, you're like the science thing, you're, you think, and it was just understood that, that you, you weren't, I thought it was interesting that the, that your parents are like, you can't, you won't make enough money doing hockey. Like that's, that's not even an option. Yeah.

But honestly, but here you are as, you know, you've had probably the most success or as much as success as anybody in hockey. And do you still feel like that was a correct assessment that like, well, you kind of do have to do something else. Hockey is not going to cover it.

Yeah. And I always I think the thing that happens is in the women's game, like I was the last player on the national team to get a university degree of all my teammates. And many of them had MBAs through the years, just highly educated. They went to, you know, Ivy League, NCAA, all these things.

um, because you know, you're preparing for a life after, cause there wasn't really professional women's hockey and even the professional women's hockey that exists today, no one's making any great, any great money at it. So, uh, you know, you just knew that, whereas, you know, I work in the NHL now and, uh, you know, the men think differently cause the salaries are much bigger. Um,

They don't, I think, tend to prepare for life after as well. But the women do and did. So I had a lot of great role models before me that kind of showed me like, hey, there's a transition that happens here. And although you want to prolong it and deny it for as long as possible, you know that it's inevitable and it happens.

So it seemed like any, you know, and I knew that I knew myself enough to know that if I didn't have something when it ended, I'd be in trouble. And I needed to transition and move into something else quickly because idle time for me wouldn't be a good thing after spending from the age of 15 to 38 years old in my life in the national team. So it was just I knew I had to be ready for it when it came.

I can't, I imagine you had the easiest personal statement for your, for your med school applications. I mean, talk about it. Just a slam dunk, a shoe in. I mean, my goodness.

I don't even remember. I know I didn't get into my first try, actually. I didn't get into my first try. And so I tell people all the time, just keep trying. And, you know, I remember my interview, I had major foot surgery.

five days prior to my interview for med school the second time. And I had a cast up to below my knee on. I was like on opioids. I was like out of it when I went in there. And then halfway through, I started crying when he asked me why I wanted to go into medicine. But the funny part is that a couple of years later, I was in the lounge at the airport in Calgary and this man came up to me and he said, do you remember me? And I said, no, I'm sorry, I don't. And he said,

Oh, I interviewed you at med school. Do you remember? And I went, oh, my God, I cried in front of you. And and the funny thing is, he is an ophthalmologist in Calgary. So there you go. I don't don't remember his name, but he said, oh, no, no, that was really good. That was a tip to all the med students. Just cry. It works. Go in on opioids and sob. Yeah.

Did you ever consider, so the first day you got into med school, was it always going to be emergency medicine the whole way? Or did you waver? Did you think? I knew it was emergency medicine. I knew, yes, I knew it was going to be. I didn't know the route, whether I was going to do five, two plus one, family. As I got into it, I started to realize that I'm old. I need to grow.

I need flexibility. I need to get out as fast as possible. Residency felt like it was taking my life away from me at, like I said, I was 38 years old. So I knew that, you know, I started to realize, oh, there's other, there's different paths to get to where I want to go.

And I can be creative with this. And I knew that because I did that as an athlete too, as a girl playing with the boys and then playing men's pro hockey. And I had to navigate this whole world for myself. So I just thought, well, I'm going to go in and take the shortest route to get out to get my life back. And then I'll navigate it that way. So that's kind of how I ended up doing it. But initially, yeah, it was always emerging.

I think some people might have heard you just say, you know, playing men's pro hockey and be like, what, what, what's going on there? How did that happen? So I think I would love to hear about that. What was that? Was that when you were playing in Europe? Is that.

Yeah. So I went over after the Salt Lake City Olympics in 2002, 2003. I went to Finland. I played two seasons in Finland in their first division there. And then I went back to Sweden in 2008 and

and played over there for a year as well. So it was just ways in between the Olympic years to bridge the gap of trying to play the highest level that I could. And, you know, it's funny how life works. My son was in grade four when we went to Sweden in 2008. And he said to me, Mom, I'm going to live in Sweden someday. And he currently is doing his master's in art history in Stockholm, living in Sweden. Oh, wow. Yeah, so life has a funny way of...

But it was a good experience for me. It was a challenge and I enjoyed it. It was hard at times. Was that an accepted thing to happen? A woman playing in the men's league? Not really. It took a lot to just even get a contract. I initially had signed a contract actually to play in Italy and I was drunkenly

driving to the airport in Calgary with, I had signed a contract and I got a phone call saying that the Italian Ice Hockey Federation made a new rule that banned a woman from playing in their first division. So I had to turn around and go back home. So I faced a lot of barriers before I got over there, but Finland was able, they were willing to take a chance. And I remember when I stepped on the ice, the first practice, there was a hundred media from around the world

around the rink watching because they thought it, you know, no woman could play. It was a publicity stunt, et cetera, et cetera. And then I took a few strides and they were like, I could hear the collective kind of gasp like, Oh, she could skate. So, so it changed, it changed a lot, but yeah, it was, yeah. I think a significant part of my career was sort of being the first knocking down different barriers and just part of what had to be done.

Yeah. Aren't you tired? That sounds exhausting. I find, I find I am at times. I find it in eMERGE. I really have to manage my, I couldn't, although I couldn't imagine doing 20 years of emergency medicine, I don't know how my friends have managed it and done it because it, it takes a toll, you know, the shift work and stuff like that. But I think when you love what you do, you know, you find a way and

but some days I'm tired. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. I want to ask you about balancing these two things in your life. So we'll be right back. All right. Haley. So I, I want to ask about, so basically you're, you, you work as which one's your part-time job or which ones, which one do you, is it 50, 50 assistant GM for the, the, the Leafs or is it, is it a,

mostly emergency but is it like you know half and half how are you doing this i honestly i right now i would say i have i have two full-time jobs at any given time as one does oh you're one to talk please

You know what it is. I do. Ophthalmologist by day, comedian by night. Yeah, that's what I do. So yeah, on any given day, because the ebbs and the flows of the season and because of the way Emerge works, it enables me to actually be able to do both. So I would say both are full time. At most days, I'm at the rink during the day and the Emerge by night.

Evening, night is how I do it. At some point you sleep. Yeah, that's what I was just trying to calculate. Sometimes it happens for you. I do sleep. Yeah, people ask that. But I do sleep. I actually covet sleep. I think it's really important, sleep and fitness. So I'm a big sleeper. I sleep a lot.

Yeah. But have you ever been, were you ever like a kind of on the training side? Cause you know, I've met a lot of emergency physicians who, you know, are, they work at, at, you know, football games or soccer games. And as you know, they're just in case there needs to be a physician presence. Have you ever done that side of things or it's always more of the front office?

I would say that I do that right now in a very informal way. So I'm not on the medical staff per se, but many, many days I am. There's no team docs at the rink during practice. So I am the most qualified person in the rink. And we've had instances where a lot of times it's players getting cut.

So I have stitched guys up that have been cut in practice or in the summer standing there in my skate suturing lips and faces and cheeks and all sorts of things. That's going to be my next question. What are the common injuries? You get a lot of lacerations of the lip. You get broken noses. You get shoulders. Is that from pucks or is it from sticks? Fists.

All of the above. Hopefully not fists in practice. That would mean they're fighting. So we don't want that. But sticks and pox. Yeah. Yeah. The other day I had a player who had a stick right through his lip somehow. There was a hole there. So...

Yeah. So he finished the practice. I don't know how he did it. Just bit down on his lip until it was over and then had this giant hole. So that was interesting. But yeah, often it's pucks and sticks, errant pucks and sticks. How about orbital fractures? You get any of those? No.

Yeah, we do see those. That's good. I'm impressed. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, we call Abzo for those. Those eye injuries. Yeah. Yes. You get eye... We actually, unfortunately, had a player last year. He lost his whole season to an eye injury and he's back now. So you do get the odd eye wearing a much longer visor than he had before. So I would say it's a lot of face, shoulder, and then you get groin and hip. So you get a lot of groin and hip, labral tears, chest.

things like that, soft tissue injuries that come, knees injuries,

Kind of get everything. But in practice, yeah, usually for me, it's the face and the upper that takes it beating. Why do hockey players not all wear just full-length visors? That's a good question. That is a good question. Well, the women do. Because women are smarter. There you go. That's what I say. I have all my teeth. Yeah.

Although playing in Finland, like in the second game that I played there, I broke my nose because I was wearing a half visor because it would not go well of wearing a full visor. It would just be like a target on your back. So I put a half visor on and I took a stick right across the bridge of my nose and it did not feel good. So it's very painful when you get hit in the face with high flying objects. Yeah.

Um, so I think, uh, yeah, I don't know, but now, uh, most players wear a visor, whereas in the past you had the option to wear a visor or no visor, which I think now at modern day hockey, it's crazy. Um, with all the facial injuries and how they shoot the puck 95 miles an hour. Right. So, um, yeah, so teeth, most of them have.

little to no teeth left by the end of their career. Yeah. I feel like it should be a mandate then. If it's a sign of weakness to wear one, well, then just mandate everyone wear one. And then you get...

you know, rid of that impulse to not wear it because you don't want to have a target on your back. Well, wasn't there a time when hockey players didn't necessarily even have to wear a helmet? What? Yes, there was. Yes. I think that changed in the 90s, 80s. Yeah. Yeah. I remember seeing a photo of a professional player just not wearing a helmet at all. Oh, man. Which... Yeah. I can't imagine that went well. I mean, just...

you know, I, I can't even imagine not wearing a helmet. Now it's, it's crazy. Even coaches wear helmets sometimes in practice now, just cause as you guys know, one, one puck to the melon, that's, uh, that's not good, but I guess tell us about your, the end of your playing career. I mean, you still probably still play at some point, right? You can't just turn that part of your life off. Yeah. I'm on the ice with the, the leaves probably four or five days a week. Cause we go out on the ice in my role in development, uh,

you know, it's on ice development as well. So I was just on the ice this morning for a couple of hours, actually with the, with the Leafs, the Marlies, the prospects, like our, our younger guys as well. So it's, it's fun. It gives me my fix. I don't technically really play, but I, I say I get to pass pucks to the best players in the world. So that kind of solved that. So there's a big coaching component to what you're doing. Yeah. I would say here, individual skills, development, coaching, psychologist,

Many things on any given day. Well, on the medicine side, are you interacting with med students? Yeah.

Are you in a teaching environment there? I do not right now just because I find I can't manage that. I've got a hard enough time managing myself. Maybe that's just one thing too many. Yeah, I'm not there yet. I also feel like I need a few more years in practice.

Yeah, sure.

Keep in line and then the players. And as the season goes, you go from, you know, the on ice technical stuff more into you spend a lot of time just talking about the psychology of managing stress and pressure and getting through your days and performing. So I find it kind of is very soft skills of medicine that I use every day.

And you're also involved in like mentoring young women in hockey, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Wickfest. Wickfest. Yeah. It's got a whole festival named after her. That's awesome. We need a Glockfest. You do. We all just sit around and crack jokes and write skits together. Yes. That would be amazing. We've got costumes everywhere. You just dress up in whatever specialty you want. Yeah.

That would be good. Bring some levity. Yeah, I work with, it's a hockey festival for young girls, five to 18 years old. We do it in Vancouver, in Calgary, in Toronto. Next year, we're starting one in Las Vegas. But we've worked with 40,000 kids since 2010 and then they get on ice hockey tournament and then off ice, we do like professional development stops. So whether it's

nutrition, self-esteem, fitness, all that kind of stuff. They get to sign up for sessions off the ice. So that's sort of to my point earlier about developing the whole athlete. That's, I really, really believe in that, that, you know, kids should not just play a sport, but should get a lot of things out of sport too. So that's where WIC Fest came from. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So I have a law activity for us to play. So this is, um,

I have, I don't have a name for this. I guess you could call it a game. By the numbers. We'll call it by the numbers. So I compiled a list of stats. So basically these are numbers, measurements, a variety of different things. And they have to do with either hockey or medicine or both. All right. So I'm just going to give you a stat and you try to tell me, does this, what, what, what is the context for this number? Okay.

Okay. All right. We'll start off with an easy one. All right. How about 40 weeks? 40 weeks? 40 weeks. Pregnancy? Pregnancy. Right. Yeah. That's how this works. For medicine. So 40 weeks. That was pregnancy. All right. Here's one. 108.8 miles per hour.

I think that was the hardest slap shot in the all-star competition. That's right. That's right. Do you remember who it was? I'm trying to think. It's escaping me now. It wasn't. No, I don't know. Name starts with a Z. Was it? It wasn't Zidane O'Chara, was it? Yes. Oh, he still holds a record? Yeah. Uh-huh.

Well, according to this paper, he does. According to my limited amount of research that I did on this. Yeah, 108 miles an hour right in the face. See, that hurt. Oh, ow. That would be impossible. Okay. Nice. You're two for two so far. All right, here we go. 100 milliseconds. 100 milliseconds.

Is this some eye thing? You're so good. There's actually a both thing. One is the blink. How long it takes to blink. Yes. The other one is the typical reaction time of elite goalies. I was going to say, yes. I guess someone did that study to look at how quickly, which is,

incredibly fast yeah that's amazing i think the study is called the quiet eye isn't it is there something out there about the quiet eye the quieter your eyes your eyes are the window to the brain as you know and so the quieter your eyes the quicker you'll be i like that yeah i'm a sucker for anything i related obviously so um okay let's see how about uh 20 minutes it's a period length period length in hockey

Not a period length in medicine. Very true. I thought he was going another place with that. Very true. Okay. This might be kind of tough. 2.8 inches. Oh, man. 2.8 inches. Is that the height of a puck? No, it can't be. I'm trying to think of something outside the box. Close.

It isn't a measurement of something in hockey. I'll tell you, it's the average thickness of a hockey stick blade. Like the,

No, can't be. No? Okay. Oh, the width of the blade. Yeah. Yeah. The width. The width. Okay. All right. There you go. All right. Moving on. Here's one. Here's one. Okay. All right. How about. 2.8 inches. Okay. The number is seven. Seven. Seven. Seven.

Critical pH. That's a good one. That works. That works. Wasn't on here, but it's true. Critical pH. I've got a hockey version too. Seven. Something that very much has to do with you. Yes. World Championships? Is that where you're getting to? Close. The number of Olympic medals won by the Canadian women's team. Is that right? First of all, did we get that wrong? No.

Is that why you didn't think of it? I think you're correct. I think I have five golds, two silvers. Is that right? Does that sound right? I think you're right. Yeah, that's right. Of which you won four of those five and one of the silvers, right? Awesome. What do you do with them, by the way? Where are they? They are in a hockey sock in my drawer. Ha!

And half of them are here and half of them are in Calgary. I don't even know where they are half the time, honestly. They are like just wrapped up.

You wouldn't believe what people do with them. They're not like hung with pride for most athletes. They're just thrown in a bag. Yeah. Like, oh, wow. Yeah. Is that like a hockey thing? Is that like a hockey thing or just like the personality of a professional athlete? I don't know. It's a lot of my friends that are Olympians. It's just I asked them and it's the same thing. It's like, well, I'm always taking it somewhere. I might need it to get out of a speeding ticket. I keep it in my glove box. Keep in the glove box. Yeah.

Oh, wait, let me find my registration. Oh, oh, look at that. It's a gold medal. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I left that there. That's I have done that. I have done that once. How else? Maybe I should be asking you that question. How else have you used your, your, uh,

your uh uh your olympic medals for personal mostly it's to get out of things or to get into things so um you know depending on what you're doing but they can they come in handy but they are heavy they're like two pounds of metal and they're big and clunky and they're just kind of a pain to drag around and then you worry about oh i can't leave them anywhere and so yeah

I've got one more number for you. 379. 379. Yeah. I wouldn't be impressed if you... Is this osmolality or something? You're in the medical. I'm thinking hockey here. You're thinking hockey. Is this my total points or something? Yeah. That's your number of points. There we go. Number of points in 276 games with Team Canada.

There you go. 168 goals, 211 assists. What's harder, assists or goals? I always thought scoring was... What are you more proud of? What are you more proud of?

I just felt like I was a playmaker. So, you know, making a nice play. I always got more satisfaction out of making a play than scoring. I think that was just my natural inclination. But maybe scoring is the hardest thing to do. Well, with a goalie reaction time. Yeah, the blink of an eye. My God. Yeah, really. And they're all six foot eight right now. So they're huge. It's very hard to see a knee net. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, they're big.

They're getting bigger. Is that, it sounds like they're getting larger. They are over every year. The goalies get bigger and bigger. It's amazing. Yeah. Okay. They're going to have to make the goals bigger. Yeah, I think so. Maybe one day. All right, let's take a break.

All right, we're back. Haley, one more important question we want to ask you about. Were you ever as a kid bribed into participating in sports and like trying really hard? Because we're currently trying to figure out how to do this with our youngest daughter.

Yeah, like she wants to sign up. We sign her up and then she gets to the games and she's like, oh, completely forgets how to run, apparently. So here's what I decided to do. And you tell me because you work with a lot of young athletes. And so you tell me if this is way not a good idea. I gave her. So I told her that for every for every basket you get a dollar.

For every rebound, you get 50 cents. For every steal, you get a dollar. And for every assist, you get a dollar. I think I had to point out the assist, though. You were very focused on goal. And then I was like, hey, we should pay her for assists. Well, that's a good idea. But the reason is because at nine years old, no one passes. Yeah.

They don't know what to do. I think they're so focused on just being able to dribble. Yes.

Or shoot. Or shoot that they don't think about how to, but actually she's actually a very good passer. But so what are your, what are your thoughts on our, on our payment scale? Well, I think it could be very lucrative if she decides she really wants to dig in. I'm already, I'm already 12, 12 bucks in the hole after like three, three games. So that's, that's good. No, my, my parents did never had to bribe me for sport, but they did say, if you don't watch TV for one year, we'll give you 500 bucks. And I didn't laugh.

So the bribing thing can work, you know. It can, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I just, I know what's going, you just gave him an idea. That's an interesting one right there. Get off your, yeah, screens, do it. Oh man. Let's see. Okay. Man, she's really. Different world now though. Yeah, exactly.

Um, okay. So, you know, and I know that we're not the only ones doing this too, because I overheard another dad talking with his, with, with another kid on the team. It's like, oh, you know, you get, you know, about how much money they made during this. So, so I'm not the only one out there.

We're going to get all sorts of hate comments on this one. No, it's fine. It's fine. Whatever. We're desperate. I have a professional athlete in my house. Oh, yeah. Sounds like it. Yeah, really. You have to pay them to actually do it. That's why she's a professional athlete. Oh, she gets paid. Because she gets paid to play sports. You never know.

All right. So the last thing I want to chat with you about is a very uplifting topic, which is just the health care system. So, you know, I know for myself going through medical school and residency, it really wasn't until I had gotten to practice that I realized a lot of the ins and outs of the U.S. health care system. We got our own problems over here.

And so what's the temperature on, on the Canadian side of things in terms from a, from a practicing physician standpoint, how are people feeling? How are people doing? I think we're probably facing very similar challenges to you guys. Um,

uh, probably much less likely to get sued. Yes. Um, however, uh, I, so the thing I always say is like, I'm pretty fresh out. I'm a year and a half out. So I don't have any reference point for what it was like before the pandemic. I came through in the pandemic. And so when people talk, you know, I'm like, Oh, uh,

Oh, you know, you actually got a break. You actually got to go take, you know, go to the washroom. You could actually look up for five seconds. So I think people are completely overwhelmed. Um, they are, I think burnout is a real thing. I think, um, it's, uh,

you know, there's a lot of like moral injury inside medicine right now. And I feel for patients. I think patients coming in, you know, where I work, it can be an hour wait, it can be nine hours wait, depending on the day. And, you know, you do the best you can. The system to me as a rookie and really is feels really inefficient and cumbersome. Like there's a lot of wasted

time and paperwork and things that we could direct our resources to. So I, I think, you know, the system is broken, but the people in it don't have to be is the one thing I would say. And I think that there's a lot of things that we can do as practitioners to protect yourself from it. I mean, if you go to work every day and you just,

complain about how bad things are, then it's going to be bad. But if you go in there and you find ways to find the silver lining and the levity and things, have fun with the people you work with, try to bring others up, then I think the day is just better. So I try to choose the optimism side of things. I do know that I get tired. I get crusty at different points in my shift, in my working month or week.

So that's when I have to come up for air and do the things that bring me joy and really stick to those things. So I think being an athlete for me first has really helped me covet. Like I talk about health and exercise and wellness because I do think that that's a real important thing to have is something for yourself.

while you're in this crazy intense world. Yeah. So I feel, I feel for patients and I feel for the people inside the system right now. And we've got to, we've got to do something to look at medicine differently moving forward. I just don't know that it's sustainable the way it is right now. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of overlap there with what we're experiencing here. Just keep showing my videos to everyone. Oh my God, I do. That's probably, that's like half of it right there. He's so humble, isn't he?

I have to tell you, my sister, and I just talked to her before I came on here, she wouldn't mind me saying this, but she may have to have optic nerve fenestration done. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to ask Will what he thinks about this. I know nothing about it. Fenestration, I know the other parts. So optic nerve fenestration is where you make an incision in the optic nerve sheath.

In the orbit. And it's done as a pretty advanced treatment option for people that have pretty severe papilledema. So increased pressure.

Usually it's either around the brain or even sometimes in the orbit. And so you have to relieve the pressure on the optic nerve somehow. It must be, it's got to be with regard to increased cerebrospinal increased pressure from the CSF. And so because you have CSF that's surrounding the optic nerve as well. So you make a little incision and the optic nerve sheath that's supposed to help save your vision. Yeah.

So it must be like an intracranial hypertension type. Yeah. It's a structural thing that they're trying to think of how to relieve it. So I said, I'll ask the experts. Yeah. That's, that's a very advanced, you got some good ophthalmologists though up there. So I don't know where, where she is, but she's in Calgary actually. Yeah. So, so great docs up there can do. I've seen that done a few times. It's,

It's a harrowing experience for all involved. Oh, great. Yeah, maybe don't tell her that part. Does she have to be awake? I would assume. No, no, no. Okay, good. But, I mean, harrowing for me watching it. The docs who were doing it seemed like it was just another day. They were doing one of these things. So I've never done one that's, you know,

above my my training level you have to do some extra stuff to be able to do stuff like that so

But I wish her the best. Yeah. Well, the YouTube videos look harrowing, so that's about all I can help her with. Yeah. And the machinery they use for that, it's this massive, at least the last one I saw, which was like a decade ago, this massive microscope, much more advanced than what we typically use for our cataract surgeries and stuff. So they got some pretty specialized equipment to do stuff like that. Very cool. Yeah.

Um, well, I want to make sure that we, we, uh, mention all the things that you're involved in. You know, we talked about a wick vest, which is awesome. I mean, just making such a huge difference for so many, um, young people coming up playing hockey, but also just people in medicine and showing that, you know, you can have this other thing in your life. That's can be very rewarding.

you know, and doing something outside of medicine as well. So I love that. You also have a book. I do. Yeah. Yeah. It's I wrote it a little, a couple of years ago now it's called over the boards, but it's essentially a lot of what we talked about today of, you know, how to, how I break down managing stress, pressure, things like that and life inside the Olympics. And there's a documentary.

Is that right? Oh, they did do it. Yeah. There's a doc on Crave called Wick. It's just essentially a story of my career. That's so cool. Yeah. She just plays that off. Just a little documentary about my life. Yeah.

I don't know if it's that interesting, but there it is. It's on there if anybody wants to see it. I will lavish praise upon you because it is very interesting. The list of accomplishments, the thing... I was going to ask you, of all the things that you've received from awards and notoriety and everything, what is the...

the thing that you're going to be remembering, like what's, what's one of your, your greatest memories, your greatest moments. Uh, it sounds like you will not be clutching your Olympic medals on your deathbed. So what will it be? You know, I think winning like of all the Olympics, probably winning in Vancouver in 2010, just being able to win in your home country and just under the kind of pressure that it felt like we were under as Canadian athletes. So that's something I'll, I'll cherish for a long time. Uh,

You know, inside medicine. Actually, I think it was the first baby that I delivered as a resident. I walked in the room and the couple recognized me kind of right away. And the Leafs game was playing over my head on the TV. And so I was delivering this baby to

As the father is watching the overtime, the baby literally comes out and he shouts like, the Leafs won in overtime. Didn't even pay attention to his child being born. And it took all of me not to like fumble and drop this baby. So all I was thinking the whole time is just don't drop the baby, you know, and then get out of there as fast as possible. So I'll cherish that I survived residency and got through medicine forever. It was a grind. Yeah.

What was the score of the gold medal match in Vancouver? 3-1, I think. Who did you beat? You guys. Did you already know that? I suspected, but I didn't know for sure. I didn't know if it could have been Russia or one of the other hockey powers. It was Sweden in 06 in the final and then the Americans in 2010. You guys are pretty good.

They're still pretty good. All right. Yeah. Little brother. I won't sit here and pretend I've been like a major, you know, U.S. hockey fan. So, yeah. Dang it. Maybe next time. We just want to keep the rivalry. We just want to keep the rivalry. Canada and the U.S. We don't want to become the 51st state. So you guys can. Yeah, that's right. Just leave it. Leave it at hockey. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. We may be taking Greenland, but I don't know. We'll see. Anything else? Do you have any last minute anything? I just I mean, I know you can appreciate the sports and the medicine side of things, obviously a little better than I can. But I just appreciate the the mentorship and the role model that you are for young girls, especially as a mom of two daughters.

um i just love seeing that there are women that the next generation can look up to and that you know when the women are giving back and and doing things for that generation it's like the cherry on top so good for you for doing all of that i hope it continues to go well yeah thanks kristin yeah thanks by the numbers we'll get through wick fest over 40 000 young girls yeah it's just

Amazing. And that's across Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Vegas. Is that right? Yeah, we're going to do one in Vegas. So heading into the U.S. first time next year. So why not Vegas? You got to go there first, right? Classic winter sports area. It's fantastic. It's because we know all the parents want to go to Vegas. Yeah.

That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, Haley, thank you. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much for coming on. No, thanks for having me, you guys. It was a lot of fun.

That conversation made me want to go get on the ice. I would love... Okay, I want to see it. Let's go find an ice rink. I say that as I'm heating my lower back. Yeah. With the heating pad. Yeah, I'm ready to get back on the ice. I'm just thinking of when you tried to ski and I would imagine it'd be about the same. I think I could hold my own ice skate. I know how to ice skate. Do you? I can do it.

I can roller skate. I can ice skate. Yeah. They're not the same. I know they're not the same, but it's a lot of the same kind of movements. Nope. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. You do this. You do the thing.

All right, let's go. I would like to see this. Yeah, you're talking like I've never ice skated before. Have you? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. So you know whether or not you can ice skate already. Okay. All right. But can you do any fun stuff or just like you can get around in a circle? I can do like a double axle. You cannot. That's all I can do. That's the only thing though. I mean, I'm not real good at it anymore. I probably lost a step. But, you know, so anyway.

Used to be better. Sure. Could have gone pro. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

All right. Tell us what you think of the episode, you guys. I thought it was really fun talking with her. Yeah, she was great. She's lived such an interesting life and she's so nice. And I mean, she's Canadian. Every Canadian I've ever met so far has been really nice, but that's probably a stereotype. Do you think they get offended by that? No. Okay. Because they're too nice to get offended. Yeah.

I don't know. But it was like hockey royalty we were just talking to. You realize that, right? I do. I know who she is. I did my research.

Big deal. Yeah. Big deal. Really big deal. All right. Lots of ways you can reach out to us. Hit us up. You can email us. Knock, knock high at human-content.com. Visit us on our social media platforms. Hang out with us in the Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok for now until TikTok goes away. At Human Content Pods. Yeah, if you're listening to this, it may or may not be on TikTok. Thank you.

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Patreon. Well, that time, random shout out to somebody on the emergency medicine tier. Lee S. Thank you for being a patron. And thank you all for listening. We're your hosts, Will and Kristen Blenner. We also know that the Glock and Blackheads. Special thanks to our guest today, Dr. Haley Wickenheiser. Our executive producers are Will Fenner, Kristen Blenner, Aaron Corny, Rob Golden, and Sean D. Brick. Editor and engineer is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Binzvi. To learn about our Knock Knock Highs program, Disclaimer Ethics Policy, Submission Verification, and Licensing Terms, and HIPAA Release Terms,

Go to glockenflecken.com. Go there right now. You can read all about it. Reach out to us at knockknockhigh and human-content.com with any questions, concerns, or any fun medical puns you have. Knock Knock High is a Human Content Production. Knock Knock. Goodbye. Hey Kristen, how's the eye contact with your doctor?

Um, like when I go in for a visit and we're having a conversation, it's hit or miss, you know, sometimes they look at you, but a lot of the time they're looking at their computer because they have to write down all the things. You're a big eye contact person. I am. It's a pet peeve. If you're not making eye contact when someone is talking. You've told me so for times. Many, many times. You know what helped though? What?

Dax Copilot from Microsoft. That would help. It makes a big difference. Yeah, you're right. Reduces administrative burden, lets physicians focus on patients, make that eye contact, form a connection. That's right. Not having to look at the computer all the time. Right. 90% of patients say their physician spends less time on a computer

When they're using Dax Copilot. That's what I want. It's a big deal. 85% of patients say their physician is more focused with Dax Copilot. You like focus. Sure. Focus on you. Focus on the patient. Focus on the problem. That's right. Learn about how Dax Copilot can help you reduce burnout and restore the joy of practicing medicine. Visit aka.ms slash knock, knock high. That's aka.ms slash knock, knock high.

You've become dead.