Knock Knock Eye: The Four Times I Cried As A Doctor (So Far)
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The U.S. healthcare system, it needs some improvement. Yeah, there's room for improvement. Yeah, it's a confusing, scary place for everybody involved. Absolutely. Physicians, families, patients, everybody. Everybody. And I've experienced it from both sides, right? I'm a physician. I've also been a patient. So I wanted to use my platform to give people practical education, really the only way that I know how.

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Knock, knock. Hi. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Knock, Knock Eye with me, your host, Dr. Glockum Flecken. Thank you for joining me today. This, of course, your one-stop shop for all things eyeball related. I got some good eyeball knowledge for you today. In fact, here's the rundown. Here's the rundown. We're going to start by talking about crying in medicine.

like producing tears. Not from a medical sense, because that is a part of my job. The lacrimal glands are very important. Also, your accessory lacrimal glands. There's different ways, there's different types of tears. I don't know if you knew that. Maybe I'll incorporate that into my discussion about crying. But we're going to start off with that. And then we're going to talk about The Sandlot, the movie, The Sandlot, which I watched with my kids for the first time.

I've seen it before. They saw it for the first time. And then I'm going to go over some of your YouTube comments because we had the episode where I talked about Dr. Mike debating the anti-vaxxers. That was the last episode that was published as of this recording. And so I'm going to talk about some of the responses that we got from that episode.

And that'll be it. That's our knock-knock eye for the day. So let's start with crying. First, physiologically, crying is okay. It's normal to cry. I think we all should cry from time to time. And physiologically, you have different types of tears.

This is kind of an aside, but because it's somewhat related to the eyeballs, I feel like I need to say it. You have your basal tears. Those are the ones that just you constantly have the tears that are being made and draining. And those are the ones that just keep your eyes lubricated. Those are your accessory. You have these accessory lacrimal glands, not the big ones.

You have smaller ones, tinier ones that produce tears pretty regularly to keep those eyeballs nice and lubricated. Also, your goblet cells that are on the surface of your eye producing mucus. That also helps as well. But you do have baseline tears. When I look at your eyes in the slit lamp, you have what's called a tear lake. I can see your tears accumulate right at the bottom of your eye, kind of resting on your lower eyelid.

If that tear lake is very small, very tiny, or you don't even have a tear lake at all, I know that you are not producing tears like you should. And we see that in diseases like Sjogren's disease. There's other things too that can produce that. But you have pretty dry eyes if you don't have a nice robust, love that word by the way, robust, what a great word. If you don't have a robust tear lake,

call it a lake, it's the smallest lake you've ever seen in your life, then you got some problems. You got some dry eye issues. All right, so you have your basal tears and you have reflex tearing. Now, this is the reflex tearing. That's when we start getting into your lacrimal glands. So let's say it's winter. You go outside. A blast of icy air hits you right in the face. You're in Iowa.

A polar vortex blows through and all of a sudden they just get you right in the eyes and you tear. You produce all these tears. That's reflex tearing. Your body's reacting to all of a sudden something that dried your eyes out like crazy or just caused a lot of maybe particles like sand, like debris gets in your eyes and

an irritant basically that's what it is it's an irritant if you have some kind of irritant whether it's cold air whether it's sand whether it's it's dirt whatever it is uh your eye wants to get rid of that irritant and so it makes a bunch of tears those tears come from your big lacrimal glands the one that are like an upper outer corner uh up there um and then you have emotional tears

Now, this is more of a complex pathway because it very much involves your brain and your limbic system, but you have emotional tears that also come from your lacrimal gland, but you don't have to have a noxious stimulus to produce those. You just got to be sad or maybe very happy or something touches your heart in a certain way. And so with that in mind, let's talk about

crying in medicine. And the reason I, I, this came to my attention is because I saw an anecdote from somebody on, on social media, um, just, uh, discussing, you know, uh, an, an event that happened to them and they cried about it. And, uh, it got me thinking, what were the, what are the times that I personally have cried in my medical career, like at work?

And, uh, I, there, there've been a handful of them. There are four that really stick out to me. So I'm going to describe four. There's probably been more, but, uh, you know, I'm not a huge crier. Uh, I, I probably should cry more than I do, but, uh, sometimes I just don't let my brain go there, which is a whole other issue. So, um, but four times, four times, that's really, um, uh, comes to mind.

The first, very first time I cried was at the, at the, like probably the first or second week of my third year of med school. So my first clinical rotation, which is actually kind of surprising to think about. Like I managed somehow to get through step one studying without crying and

Usually, the med student-USMLE world relationship produces some tears. It's an abusive relationship. It's not healthy, and often there are tears involved there. I managed, I think, as far as I can remember, I managed to get through that step one study, taking the exam itself without breaking down, without crying. But the first time I remember was my OBGYN rotation.

It was early on. I do remember that. We were in the emergency department and there was a patient that had an intrauterine fetal demise, 40 weeks, 40 weeks, the baby died. And I'll never forget the wailing, the screaming from the family.

It was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever experienced. And I cried. And the attending, actually, who there were two attendings there at the time, OBGYN attendings. One of them was in with the patient, consoling them, hugging them. And the other attending came and gave me a hug, which was very thoughtful and certainly helped me feel better. Sometimes you just need that.

And we had a, a, a good relationship and, and I, I still remember that to this day. And now we're, this was 2010. So now we're 15 years later and I still remember it like it was yesterday. So that was, um, that was the first time, uh, and certainly the saddest I, you know, that alone. And at the time that rotation, I love that Richard, I was in Nashua, New Hampshire, uh,

And wonderful people, wonderful residents. The first time I ever got to do a suture, like put a suture in, was during that rotation. Very supportive people. I love the OBGYN residents and the attendings. I think they get a bad rap. That's why I had no excuse. I need to do more content about them. But I just, I love them so much. And so that rotation, it almost like got me thinking, like, could I do OBGYN?

Um, but it turns out I've, I, I don't like the hospital that much. So I, I went away from that probably pretty quickly, but that moment with that, that death was, uh, it left a mark on me. Uh, so that was the first time. Second time was during residency. This was, I, I got destroyed during morning rounds one day. So we would do this thing.

in ophthalmology residency. People think it's all fun and games in ophthalmology residency. It's tough. Every residency program is tough. I don't care what specialty you're in.

It's hard. Residency is hard. I don't care if you're a dermatologist, ophthalmologist, internal medicine, general surgery, whatever it is, it is mentally and emotionally taxing to learn how to practice medicine. I'm not just talking about med school. I'm talking about residency where you're in it. You are the patient's doctor. You have oversight, but you're making a lot of decisions. You're working the hours.

And for us, it's home call. And so what we would do is every so often we'd have morning rounds that were like on-call rounds. So basically, all it was is the resident who was on call the previous two or three nights, we only took one night at a time, but so it was like two or three residents, would get up in front of the department and just talk about the calls they received.

And it was actually some of my favorite rounds to listen to and to give because you got great feedback most of the time. You heard about interesting cases. These are all the emergency things that came in, the most interesting emergencies at a level in trauma centers. You can imagine you heard a lot of really interesting stuff. But this was my first call rounds to participate in. I was pretty much a brand new first year

um, PGY two. So my second year of post graduate education, but my first year in ophthalmology, cause you do a, we did a separate intern year at that time. And, uh, I, I just didn't handle a couple of phone calls like the way I should have handled them. And I had a couple of attendings that just laid into me. And, uh, uh, it, it was, uh,

for like a solid, like 20 minutes, but just talking about all the things that I did wrong. And, uh, and that was, I think part of why it affected me so much was because I had been up all night, one thing. And so, uh, and, and, and it was, um, and not some of the criticism I'd say was, was warranted. I would say in some of the ways it was delivered to me, it didn't need to be so public. And so, uh,

painful to listen to. I'm up there in front of my peers, in front of all the attendings and everything. It hurt. And also there was some anger mixed in with it, with the embarrassment and the shame that I felt in that moment in front of the department talking about these things. Because in my mind, I did my best with the limited amount of education that I had

And the anger, though, came from the feeling like it was Monday morning quarterbacking. Like, here are these people that, yeah, they're much more knowledgeable than me, but they were not up all night dealing with angle closure, glaucoma, or whatever it might be, open glow, whatever. They were not fielding calls from patients all night, and they're going to come in and in hindsight,

you know, tell me all the terrible things that I did and the way I handled it was not okay. So, um, and so after that, I held it together during my berating beratement, the session where I was berated, I held it together, thank them. And then I just, I kind of let it out, uh, when I was alone, uh, in the workroom, uh, and, and just, it felt so bad. It just like my confidence just tanked.

And since that time, and it wasn't because of me, although I did have people come up to me afterwards and be like, hey, don't worry about it. Don't let it get to you. All my co-residents who were also fantastic, even some of the fellows. But since that time, there was actually a rule, which I think is great, that's been instituted, which is that the resident who was on call, who's presenting the things that they saw and did on call,

They cannot be, questions cannot be asked of them during that round session. Questions can be asked to other residents, but you have to at least give that person a little bit of a break.

Because they're putting themselves out there and showing what they did. You can still educate, all right, but they're basically trying not to just straight up embarrass the person who's presenting. So they have changed those call rounds a little bit, still very effective, but it probably would have saved me a little bit of anguish that really wasn't necessary. I mean, we are in medicine, like we are so hard on ourselves, right?

that it doesn't take much to get your point across if, if you screwed up, like you could tell me I screwed up, uh, but there's a line you don't have to cross, um, you know, to get your point made because don't worry. All it, all you have to say is, Hey, this is what you should have done. That's it. I'm good because my brain is so wired to not make mistakes that

You just tell me I made a mistake. You don't have to be mean about it. Just tell me the mistake I made. Tell me what I did wrong. That's it. I'm never making that mistake again. It's already embarrassing enough. You don't have to belittle somebody. You don't have to really just hammer home that point. Anyway, I feel like that's a distinction that I think some attendings out there have trouble with. They feel like they really got to lay into you whenever you make a mistake. It's not necessary.

Nobody is harder on med students and residents than the med student resident. Nobody is harder on me than I am on myself. And so I, and I wish people understood that. So anyway, that was the second time. Um, third time was, um,

When I, you know what, let's, I, I'm, I'm going, I'm really, I'm taking more time than I thought to go on through these. Let's, let's, let's take a short break. We'll come back with my, the other two times I, I can recall that I've cried during medicine.

Hey, Kristen. Yeah. I've been, you know, grossing you out about these Demodex mites, although I'm not sure why they look like adorable. Well, these are cute, but it's the real ones that kind of freak me out a little bit. Yeah, but I have some new facts to share with you about Demodex. Oh, great. All right. These mites have likely lived with us for millions of years. Oh.

Yeah. Does that make you feel better? No. Like they're passed down through close contact, especially between mothers and babies. Oh, wow. Such a special gift for our daughters. They're born, they live, they crawl around, and then they die on your eyelids and in your lash follicles. Their entire life cycle lasts about two to three weeks, all spent on your eyelids. Well, thank you for that. This isn't helping, is it? No. How do I get rid of them? Well, it's...

It's fun to gross you out, but we do have all of these. It's really common, but there is a prescription I drop to help with these now. Okay. That probably excites you. That makes me feel better. Any way to get rid of them, right? That's right. All right. Sign me up. Visit Mites Love Lids to learn more about demodex blepharitis, which is the disease that these little guys cause. Sure. Again, that's M-I-T-E-S Lids.

Love Lids, L-O-V-E-L-I-D-S.com to learn more about Demodex and Demodex Blufferitis and how you can get rid of it. All right, here we go. Third time, third time, we're basically going in chronological order here, was at the beginning of my senior year of residency when I...

I woke up one morning and I found a lump in my testicle. It was my only remaining testicle because I had already had testicular cancer in an orchiectomy. So I had at that point that that was in med school. And so I had

Um, I had, uh, only one testicle at that point and doing a self exam. I found, I was like, I knew exactly what it was because I had been through this rodeo once before. I knew what it feels like when your testicle is misshapen and something's growing out of it. Uh, and, um, so I was, I just kind of just, just like pit in my stomach. I knew kind of what was going on, but you know, I'm, I was a, I was a resident and,

And I would have done things a little bit differently if I could go back. But I was at the time I was doing what's called day call. So we had day call, which is somebody who's in clinic, one of the residents who's in clinic that day.

who like during the hours of like 8 to 5 p.m., they're the ones that are taking the emergency calls from urgent cares, from the emergency department, from the hospital. Any consults that come in during business hours, they go to the day call resident. And usually you're also working in clinics. So you're taking, you're carrying the pager, you're taking those day call emergencies while also doing clinics. So it's just a very busy time. Well,

The morning I found this thing, this cancer, which I assumed was cancer, I was on day call that week. And so I went in, I found some time over like a lunch break. I went in to radiology and I got an ultrasound diagnosed with cancer. As I'm walking out of the radiology department, my pager goes off.

And this is like, I don't know, 11 o'clock in the morning, noon, one, somewhere around there. The pager goes off and I call him back and they tell me that it was a patient that had a gunshot wound to the face and had bilateral open globes, which is about as bad of a trauma as you can possibly experience.

as a patient, but also just as an ophthalmology resident, right? This is just really bad trauma. And it was, at that moment, it was just, it was too much for me all at once. Because I literally...

Two minutes before was told that now I had to go through another thing, a cancer, probably lose my other testicle, have to figure out hormone replacement. And do we, you know, do we have to, you know, is our family complete? Do we, do I need to bank sperm? All this stuff. Do I need to postpone residency? I'm like, I'm like looking for jobs at this point. And so it's just totally upends my life. And all of a sudden bilateral open globes in the emergency department that I need to go figure out.

And so I couldn't handle it. I, I grabbed my, a good friend of mine, um, who was the oculoplastics fellow at the time. I pulled him aside. We went into this, into a room and I just, at first I was just, I just tried to, I was like, Hey, I, something came up. I gotta give, I gotta, I gotta, you know, deal with this.

And, uh, but instead I just started crying. I, I, I, it was just, I couldn't even get the words out. Eventually I told him like, Hey, I just found out I had cancer. Um, and then he took the pager from me and told me to go home.

which was the very compassionate, wonderful thing that he did, which I am forever thankful. I even talked about it. He came to one of our live shows last year, Dr. Harry Shahal, shout out Harry. And I shouted him out during the show and everybody gave him a standing ovation. It was awesome. So that's the kind of compassion we need in medicine. People need to show each other that level of compassion. Anyway, that was the third time I cried. The fourth time was last week.

What time was last week? I made the mistake in between patients of browsing TikTok and there was a TikTok that came up. Do you remember that show Rugrats? I ask you as if you're going to as if any of you are going to respond to me.

The show Rugrats was on Nickelodeon. I could only watch it when I went to either my grandma's house. She had cable or a couple of friends had cable and they had Nickelodeon. It was on Nickelodeon. So I didn't get to watch it often, but I was, I had seen enough of Rugrats. I knew about Rugrats. I didn't remember this episode though. And a clip of Rugrats came on where Chucky, the little redheaded, cute little kid, his mom died when he was a baby. That's the backstory.

And, and his, um, in one episode, his, his dad, single dad, um, showed or, uh, told Chucky about how his mom used to garden with him. And he still had like all her gardening tools. And Chucky, by this point, he's like four, three or four years. These are little, these are, these are rugrats. They're like little toddlers basically. Um,

Um, and what got me was that, uh, at the end of the clip, Chucky, um, uh, take and all the, all the gardening, all the, the plants and the flowers and things, they're all still there that she was, what she would work on with, with little baby Chucky. Chucky took his friends over to the garden at the end of the clip. And he said, look, I do have a mom. She's in the flowers.

God damn. I'm like tearing up just thinking about it now. She's in the flowers. I don't know. And I think maybe it's because like I, that was almost me. Right. I had a cardiac arrest and like, I was almost like in the flowers for my kids, except it would have been like a Morton salt canister, but man, it hit me.

Oh man. So I'm like, I'm like, I gotta go see patients. I'm like, I've, I've got tears running down my face. I'm like, I gotta collect myself before I go on with clinic. Uh, there, there, there needs to be some kind of a, of a filter on Tik TOK where like, no, nothing that makes going to make me cry, please. Like just check a box. Like no, no, no sad things.

So, man, but check out if you don't. I mean, I'm trying to explain it to you, but go and look it up on YouTube. Chucky is moms in the flowers. It's the sweetest, saddest thing you've ever seen in your life. OK, and that's it. Those are the four times I can remember. I'm sure there have been more. I've definitely like.

been like filming skits at home and I'm just so frustrated that I'm about to start crying because I can't quite get the script right or I can't find a certain pair of glasses or they broke. That's less emotionally charged. That's more, I don't know, just weird content creator stuff.

So, uh, uh, tell me about a time when you cried during, it can be a happy, funny, sad, whatever. I'd love to hear in the comments, uh, at Glock and Fleckens. Uh, I always, uh, look through those comments, um, on our YouTube channel, or you can send us an email, knock, knock high at human dash content.com. I would love to hear your stories. Um, all right, moving on. So I promised a little bit of eyeball education beyond where tears come from.

It's like where babies come from. My kids would not ask me where babies come from, but they would ask me, where do tears come from? They haven't yet. I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting on the day. By the way, I've told this to you guys before, but you know why your nose runs when you're crying? Because those are your tears. Your tears are draining into your nose and they come out of your nostrils and your nose runs. That's all. That's what that is. You're just making so many tears that your body can't absorb them fast enough and they run out your nose.

There you go. That's all the tier information I have. Although we could get into the chemical composition of tears, but we'll save that for another episode. All right. Next, uh, I was watching, speaking of kids, uh, we watched, um, the whole family, lady Glock and Flecken, our two kids, we watched the sandlot together. And I, my favorite thing to do with my kids these days is put on a movie from like

1990 or earlier because they, you know, it's like the, the video, the quality is not what it is now. Right. So it looks old and I hear them like they're always right away. They're like, Oh man, how old is that? They're kind of like start to whine a little bit, complain a little bit.

Um, and then they just, I always pick really good movies and then we start watching them and they get into the story. All right. Lately, recently we watched jaws. My kids are old enough now to like, not be too terrified of jaws, which granted like not that scary now compared to what it was back in, you know, whenever it was, it was released. Um,

Uh, they love jaws. They, as my, my youngest, my 10 year old wants to watch it again. And again, um, big fan of jaws in this house. Anyway, we watched the sandlot and, um, um, my girls, they, they really loved it and shot it by the way, shout out to the sandlot as probably a, a, a, one of the reasons why I never in my life tried chewing tobacco. You guys know what I'm talking about? Uh, if you're not, if you've never seen this movie, uh,

YouTube Sandlot chewing tobacco and you'll see why terrified of chewing tobacco ever since seeing that whenever I was a kid but the reason I'm bringing up the Sandlot awesome movie I love it one of my favorites is because this was the first time I had watched it since becoming an ophthalmologist it's probably I mean it's been like 10 years since I've probably seen the Sandlot and and we got to the end and

Um, not, not really a spoiler alert, but anyway, there's a character played by James Earl Jones, uh, named Mr. Myrtle, Mr. Merle, Merle. That's who it is. Mr. Merle. No Myrtle. It is Myrtle. We're like Myrtle the turtle, Mr. Myrtle. And, uh, he lives in the house.

that's, that's where the, the, the scary, the, the monster, the beast, what they call the beast that, which is just a dog, just a big dog. He's the owner of the beast. Hercules is the dog name. And, um, uh,

And I noticed immediately watching this as an ophthalmologist, the man is playing a blind character. James Earl Jones is, is acting. He's, he's blind. The character is blind. He's wearing the dark glasses because that's the easiest way to, for Hollywood to tell you that a patient or a, um, a person in the movie is blind is by wearing dark sunglasses. Um,

And so immediately I'm like, okay, what is it? What's the diagnosis? What's he got? Is it macular degeneration? Does he have glaucoma? Did he have angle closure glaucoma? Maybe he's in ophthalmitis. Did he have a bad reaction? Maybe he has TAS, which is like a post-op inflammatory disorder. Did he have some kind of autoimmune condition? I was just, my wheels were turning trying to figure this out. Fortunately, I didn't even remember this. He tells us.

James Earl Jones, Mr. Myrtle, he tells us how he went blind. He was a teammate of Babe Ruth, and he said his career was taken off until he took a pitch to the temple. He got hit by a fastball in the temple, and the lights went out, he said. The lights went out getting hit in the temple. So I've been racking my brain. I'm just trying to figure this out.

What could have happened? Surely, I mean, he could have lost consciousness. Sure. But that wouldn't cause you to go blind. The vision, you should come back. The vision should come back. So he had a hard enough jolt trauma that caused both of his eyes to go blind.

To what level? We don't know. The only thing I can think of is that James Earl Jones had a traumatic optic neuropathy. That's the only, because it wasn't a direct hit. He told you where, he tells us where he was hit, in the temple. He points to the temple. All right, so not a direct hit to the eye. If this was a direct hit to the eye, it could have, I mean, it could have had a bad hyphema, traumatic retinal detachment, even an open globe with hard enough blunt trauma, you can get an open globe.

And for a professional baseball player, being blind in one eye is probably enough to totally end your career. Although the implication from seeing James Earl Jones's character is that he's blind in both eyes. So that doesn't really make sense. So it's got to be an optic neuropathy. Basically,

And we see this, I've seen this mostly in like car accidents. I saw it once in a patient who fell off a ladder. But car accidents are probably the most common because they're high speed. And basically, the fibers of the optic nerve, they shear. There's like a shearing force. Basically, the forces of being hit with something at such high speed that causes...

that causes the, the movement of tissue in the eye behind the eye, the optic nerve enough to where the, there's a shearing force that damages those optic nerves, those fibers within the optic nerve. And you get what's called a traumatic optic neuropathy, just terrible, a terrible thing. It's it's, and I've never seen a bilateral. And so now we're getting into just a little bit of a little bit of a creative license here because I,

I don't think there's any way that somebody can get hit with a baseball, even in the temple, go blind in both eyes. Now, it's entirely possible that maybe he did just go blind in one eye. Maybe he did get a monocular eye.

traumatic optic neuropathy, still had vision in the other eye, but it was enough to end his career. And then in later life, he developed something that took the rest of his vision. So maybe he still could have glaucoma or macular degeneration. And it was at this point in the conversation that my kids left the room.

They did not want to hear any more from me about this, about the pathophysiology, about the possible treatment options. Well, unfortunately, traumatic optic neuropathy, we don't have a way to transplant optic nerves. So there's really nothing you can do.

Um, so, uh, you know, I wouldn't say, I won't say I ruined the Sandlot because this was at the ends. They got through the end of the movie. Um, but I, I fear it will be forever tainted by, uh, my, my attempt to explain and diagnose Mr. Myrtle, the owner of Hercules, the beast. Let's take a break.

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I think one of my favorite things to do, honestly, is try to come up with diagnoses for people in movies and TV shows that have vision loss or are supposed to be blind. And I would love to torture my family even more. So if you have suggestions, if you know of any movies with characters like that, please

that, that have, have some kind of vision loss or, or maybe during the, the, the, the movie, they like part of the plot point is they go blind or they lose it or something, you know, let me know what those movies are. I'll include it in the pile. I'll look at, I'll watch them. If I can, I'll watch them with the kids. Uh, and, um, and I'll talk about them on the podcast. It's so fun. It's so fun to, I love seeing what like Hollywood producers think is like a cause of blindness. It's, it's kind of fun.

All right. So finally, let's let's talk about some YouTube comments here. So the episode that was just that we just put out this week, Dr. Mike versus anti-vaxxers. What went down on Surrounded?

This was our most popular YouTube video of the podcast since we started the podcast specific channel earlier last year.

Uh, and yeah, it's probably because I mentioned Dr. Mike, but also thank you, Dr. Mike, for lending your fame, uh, to, to my, to our, the YouTube channel. Um, but it was a very, it was interesting conversation, interesting topic. I hope you guys had a chance to see the surrounded video.

I had some interesting, a lot of people agreed with me. Like he did the best he could under the circumstances, Dr. Mike in talking with the anti-vaxxers. I had some interesting comments though. This just really sums it up at joy. Anna Jo said, I agree. Dr. Mike did an amazing job staying level headed and respectful in such a potentially pivotal moment for lay people teetering on the edge of medical distrust. And,

I don't know if that's a point that I really hammered home, but it's absolutely true. And several people mentioned this. It's like, you're not going to change anti-vaxxers' minds. But by trying to be on social media and fighting misinformation in whatever way you can, whether it's on this manufactured, this produced show, Surrounded, or just making content on social media, can you change the mind of someone who's just not really sure?

I think that absolutely, that's where we need to be focusing our attention, right? The people in the comments that are so far anti-vax that like the lady on like the, the, I think it was a woman on the, on the surrounded episode that said nothing. Dr. Mike says we'll change her mind. We're not going to reach that person. It's done. They're there. They're so far.

Into their hole and unable to even consider evidence for why vaccines are helpful that you can't reach them.

Not possible. It's the people who are just not sure they have questions. You know, they, maybe they, they just become apparent for the first time and they just, they hear so much from all these different places. Like what are they, what's true? Those are the people that we can reach with, with, with, with accurate information. So yeah, that's, that's a really important distinction.

At Amanda 2244, the lady on that video who said HIV doesn't cause AIDS was the most entertaining and simultaneously the most terrifying because you genuinely believe this garbage. I have genuinely no idea how he stayed so calm and lovely the entire time. Absolutely, absolutely agree.

uh, at old Dion mad props to Dr. Mike. And I agree. It's important to have somebody out there in the trenches fighting misinformation. I just wish they did a better job of getting good faith actors. I can understand a new mom with questions, but like, uh, what is the point of the lady who said nothing you can do to change my mind? Yeah, exactly. And there was one, there was one, um, one idea that, Oh, I wish I could, I don't know if I could find that, that comment. Um,

But somebody in my comment section said, I can't wait for one anti-vaxxer to debate 20 docs, which just made me laugh. That's such a funny and also just a great idea. Like how awesome would that be? I would love that. Like, why not?

Give one rabid anti-vaxxer and then surround them with medical professionals and let's go to work. Oh man, that cinema, absolute cinema that would be. I would love it. Absolutely love it.

Um, thank you all for your comments. I really, you know, I, we're, we're seeing the, the people are finding the channel on YouTube. I really appreciate all of you going there. Uh, or even if you watch the Apple podcasts, um, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, um, um, we appreciate the support and listening. And, um, as we try to continue building this up, I've, the more I've done these knock knock I episodes, um,

I've just, I just love it more and more. It's, it's so much fun. And my wife, uh, or people that know me that really know me would tell me it's just because I love to hear myself talk. There's some truth to that. Absolutely. As a reason, like it's just me and my content. I don't know. I, I, I group projects are hard for me, folks. There's gotta be others like me.

Surely I'm not the only one that has trouble with group projects. I never liked them growing. I was just like, let me just do it. Can I just do the thing? I'll just get it done real quick. That was like my, my thoughts. Like that doesn't, that's not a good way to be. That's so, I don't know. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a flaw that I have and I'm trying to,

not to pass that on to my children and get them comfortable with group projects. Unfortunately, my oldest, very much an individual, and feels the same way about group projects. So it's genetic. It's got to be genetic. Anyway...

Thank you all for being here and supporting us. And thank you all for listening. I'm your host, Will Flannery. Also known as Dr. Glockenflecken. Thanks to my executive producers, Aaron Corny, Rob Goldman, and Shanti Brick. Editor, engineers, Jason Portiza. Our music is by Omer Binzvi. Knock Knock High is a human content production. See you next time. Bye. Knock Knock. Goodbye. Human content.