Side Stories: Investigation Alien w/ George Knapp
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Yes.

Hey there, Sad Stories listeners. Yeah, you thick, bottom-heavy sons of bitches. I think some of you are getting thinner.

But I want you bottom heavy. I mean, that's how I like you. But it depends on what, you know, a lot of people get upset because they can't fit in their bucket seats anymore. Yeah. They can't go on their Green Lantern ride. Oh, my God. You got to be careful with that. But if you're having a big swing and tuck us. You got to have, you know, you got to be careful with Six Flags. You really do because they won't tell you that you're too big for the ride. You got to tell yourself. That's right. Because they'll just let you die. They don't care. They're teenagers. They're not a sponsor, right? I don't know.

No, no, they're not a sponsor. No, Six Flags, honestly, I like that about them. Yes, that they don't want nothing to do with us. No, of course not. No, don't tell me what to do. Don't body police me. Don't tell me, but sometimes you might slide out of a roller coaster. Welcome to Side Stories. Yes, and just before we get started, January 11th.

Last podcast on the left is going to be at the Coca-Cola Roxy Theater in Atlanta. Speaking of Six Flags. Oh, yeah. So come enjoy us. We have been fucking doing this show hard, man. And we are ready to fuck you up. We're doing side stories the next night. Already sold out. Done. So fuck that shit. Sorry. Got to come to the last podcast on the left. They can hang out outside of Dad's garage and listen to The Door. Yeah, do that. Go hang out outside.

That would be cool, honestly. That would make me feel good. Yeah. But speaking of big swing and tuck assists. The Claremont? Yeah. The Claremont. If you've never been, it's weird. We'll talk about it. Okay.

We have a very special guest today. It's the first day of 2025. Wow. Catch that flying car? Oh, oh no, it crashed into that orphanage of abandoned Roombas. Yep, that's what happens. Oh, that's not good. So we want to talk about... Are Roombas land drones?

Yes. Carpet drones. Carpet drones. And we just want to preempt this. The reason why we did an intro to this is that this piece was originally going to be of a larger piece for a UFO, big old UFO episode. But instead, the entire UFO world flipped on its ass during this new gigantic drone wave that happened...

literally started approximately three days after we talked to this extremely important man within ufology. It is the side story's curse. And it holds.

So we are releasing this for today. We are gone. Yes. You got an episode last week. For no reason. Because we wanted to do that. It's a Christmas present. Yes, but this is, we're gone now. I'm not here right now. I'm in Disneyland. He is fucking, and he's not, he doesn't even have a ticket. No, I don't. I don't. He's just going. And speaking of being too fat for the rides.

That's me. He's starting to get there. But hey, again, they got to figure it out. That's why I don't go to Universal no more. They kicked me off the Harry Potter ride. I'm going to go fuck. Yeah, man. And it's all because it's full of hate. Also, fuck Harry Potter. Yeah, man. It's full of hate. We got into that last week. But George Knapp is one of the most extremely competent people. I just want to hold him. I really do. I want him to be my friend. I wish he was my father. Yeah. But also, I don't know what I'd be like if he was my father. Yeah, worse. Yeah.

Maybe. I mean, you'd be more into the bullshit. I'd be with him. I'd be next to him. It would be nap and nap investigates. I'd be right next to him. I'd be the son he always wanted. You'd take his name? Of course. I mean, he's your father. I guess you don't have a choice. I have to. Yeah. But I would be his son. I would look after him. I'd cook and clean for him. I'd wash his clothes. I'd mend his clothes. And then we'd go on UFO...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This is a great interview. And yes, so if you notice that we're not talking about the number one UFO story in the world. In the history of our lives. If you're wondering why they're not talking about that, it's because we recorded this directly before it happened. I think three days is generous. It might have been one. It might have been. It literally might have been because I remember seeing footage about the drones and

And I was like, oh, my God, we just talked to George Knapp. I mean, we're like, we're going to try to get him. But we are we are working on a project now to try to get him back in. We're going to talk about this with him. I just kind of let you know, with the entire Eastern Seaboard, the United States of America, other states and countries within Europe have been experiencing this buzzing of unidentified drones. They're calling them drones because they don't want to call them UFOs. And they are out there.

We have no idea what's going on. We don't know if it's man-made. We don't know if it's from a foreign adversary. We don't know if it's from the ocean. We don't know if it's extraterrestrials. We don't know if it's us. We don't know if it's private corporations. And where does that leave us? We're talking about the congressional hearings. On this documentary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not talking about any of that. So remember that.

We're not talking about any of that. We're talking about the big alien news that happened two days before this big alien news. That no one even cares about anymore. No one cared about. The revelation about Immaculate Constellation. George Knapp also is the host of the brand new show, Investigation Alien, which is on Netflix. Go check it out. He's...

The most reputable man in the biz. Absolutely. And the Phoenix Lights are a very big part of that, and it seems like they're oddly similar. They're extremely similar to what we're experiencing right now. So check out this interview with the man himself, George Knapp. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we have one of the more, let's say one of, if not one of the most important voices right now in ufology.

George Knapp investigative reporter model. I can't believe that they let you out of your contract with Vincent Secret.

the new male lingerie series that you're about to unveil, which I'm really, really excited for, sir. Well, my manhood is on full display in that, so I'm not sure the audience is ready for it. You know, I also have a career as an interior decorator. Oh, wow. I was about to say this. George Knapp. It's just blown up. Mr. Knapp, and the creator of the new show for Netflix, Investigation Alien, which is a great new, I'd say it's an

awesome primer to to get people caught up with what's going on right now at the forefront of ufology. George Knapp, thank you so much for being here. Always glad to talk to you guys. And I appreciate talking about this show. It was one heck of a project. I wouldn't get into it, but man, it was it

It wore my, you can see it from some of those shots in there that my saggy old carcass was dragging there by the end of it. You were going all over the world. It was crazy. I was like, what are they doing? Why do you leave them alone? You know, there are other interviews and other trips we made that didn't make the cut. We got so many great people.

The interviews, so many great location shots. It was too much to fit even in six episodes. So there's a lot of things that didn't make it that would be a great series by itself. Yeah, you're down in Brazil, you're in Mexico, you're all over the place. And as someone who is still like dipping their toe into ufology, I don't really know much. I'm very new to it. Henry has been my guide. The show was perfect for me.

It really gave me an overview of everything that's going on right now. I'm hooked. I can't wait to learn about more. I'm so happy that you're at your house right now because I felt like your house was like a character in the documentary. It really was. It looks great. The secrets in the boxes in your house. It is wild. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Thank you, George, for sitting down with us. Yeah, I just want to party at your house. Yeah.

Well, you know, that wasn't the plan from the beginning. They built an alternative office for me in L.A. They took a bunch of my stuff, put it in the basement of this old building. So you see an office there. And then we switch back to the real thing that goes back and forth. But they wanted to shoot it there. They ended up coming here maybe 10 times. And look, my place is a mess. The bunker down here is filled with...

boxes and files, they made it even messier just to convince people that I'm a total slob and basically on the edge of being a hoarder. But that's, I wouldn't trust it either way. Yeah. I would not trust you if it was different. If I went in there and it was all neat, I'd be like, what's going on here? He's got this time? Yeah.

I remember at the start of the pandemic, you know, when Zoom suddenly happened and they start seeing people on social media rating, rate your room kind of stuff. I thought, oh, shit, please don't do that. They finally got around to it. And somebody, I think they were very kind, this poor old dartering old fart.

is obviously a hoarder. We're not going to be too mean to him. They gave me like a three out of 10 and that was generous. Yeah. Hey, the secrets, that's what they get the three for. And all that information, it's way safer in those boxes than it is on a hard drive or on your computer. So it's a, it's a smart move.

It is. And I'm a little bit of a technophobe anyway. I mean, I have so many stories that I have written and then lost into the ether that I save files. I save physical files and I can find it. You know, I don't have to worry about it disappearing from my computer or the internet. A lot of stuff does disappear online. And a lot of it is mistakes that I would make myself. But

Funny stuff happens there. So I want to be able to physically grab stuff. When you started the process of investigation aliens, how did you decide what were the stories you wanted to tell for the episodes? Because it really I mean, it's a great that's what I was saying before. It's like a great catch up. But like, was that the goal or was it just because I have these stories, I want to get them on camera.

There are some, you know, some great cases, some historic cases that I've always been interested in, Calaras being one, you know, and some of that material has made its way into my hands. And I'll tell you about that. Here's how the project sort of unfolded. 2022, a producer who had been working with Netflix and knew all their executives introduced himself and said, hey, these guys are thinking about

funding their own UFO project. At that point, they had probably had a hundred proposed series from all kinds of filmmakers and production companies, and they turned them down and they wanted their own. So they sent this guy, his name is Angus James. He had his own production company. They sent him to meet with me. And the first thing he did is he went to AlienCon, that big event in LA, where I was like, I was on stage five or six times for really big events. So if they're going to come to check me out, that was a good time to do it. I interviewed James,

Jay Stratton and Travis Taylor about the UAP task force. They had never spoken about it in public. I was on with Giorgio talking about ancient aliens. I was on with Skinwalker folks. The reaction from the audience was pretty positive about me. So they felt pretty good and pitched me on the series. And

I didn't need much more on my plate. It was already pretty full. You know, we had already, I just launched this podcast with Jeremy. Oh yeah. Weaponize is a full-time job and you guys are really like, and you are, you're still putting out episodes with brand new material that you are breaking every week.

Yeah. And at that time we just started, I was flying to LA twice a month. I don't travel all that well. The idea that the Netflix would be added to that. I'm still doing the coast to coast AM. Oh yeah, that's right. You're still there. And I'm, I am still the chief investigative reporter for KLAS TV and they will, they want stories from me as often as I can provide them. So you're still doing like, that's right. You're still doing legitimate.

quote unquote, I'm not going to say that to us. I'm not going to do that to us and say not legit news, but you're still like, you have to go talk about the election and stuff. You still have to go talk about other stuff.

Yeah, I did three stories last week for November sweeps about mob related topics. That's awesome. Mob stuff, historical things, but new angles, new information about mob figures. And so, yeah, I'm still the chief investigative reporter there. I got the coast to coast, do the weaponized. We put a book out with Colm Kelleher and Jim McCaskey. And, you know, I was pretty busy. And now, by the way, this Netflix thing, they thought it might take 30 days to shoot it. I thought, well, I can handle that.

ended up being 14 months we traveled all over the place 14 months and uh how did that work when you first went out was it just because like oh this is so successful we're gonna do this or they're like oh no no we need to actually go to brazil

Yeah. I mean, you know, when they pitched that idea, I thought, oh, yeah, for sure. I've been to Brazil before, but I'd never been to Calaras. And Calaras is such a cool case. It's mythical in the UFO world. It's, you know, it's an outlier because people were attacked. And the story that's gone out through Western media to the world is.

largely forgotten, except for UFO folks who are into the topic. But the story that went out is alien ships came out of the river and out of the sky and attacked these poor villagers and panicked them. And hundreds of people were injured.

- Partially true. But we were able to track down some of those original victims, witnesses. There was a lady named Aurora. She was just a teenager at the time. Her photo was sort of the face of Calaras. It went out all over the world. Her in a hospital showing this injury on her shoulder. And most of the witnesses who were interviewed said it was a burn, like a laser beam. Well, we found out by talking to them directly, they had not done interviews before in all these years.

And by finding them and get them to go on camera, they told us what had happened is there were beams of light that were shot at them, but inside the beam of light were these filaments and these hooks. Now, some of them got burned when the lights hit. Some of them had these filaments that stuck in their chest and it took blood and tissue samples out. Most of the people who were hit that way

suffered from anemia. It was a loss of blood. They got dizzy. Hundreds of them scattered out of Calaras. And then the event spread to at least 20 other cities, little tiny towns in there. There were probably 2,000 people altogether that were injured as a result of this episode. The Brazilian Air Force came in, launched an investigation, went to Calaras,

Officially, they said they were there for four months and then it all went away. They were there for 15 or 16 months, produced more than a thousand pages of documents and reports. And as we found out on this trip, there's a boat owner who ferried them out every day during these months out to this spot in the Amazon Delta there.

where these Air Force guys were trying to communicate with whatever it was. This spot is where these things kept coming in and out of the water, and they were trying to communicate. And as we learned in that series, if you guys saw it, there were a couple of Americans playing suit, suit guys who didn't say much, but they brought along some kind of a screen

That when you tilted it up to the sky, if you use your eyeballs, you don't see anything, but you tilt this up and they can see these spaceships. And then as this captain told us, he'd never been interviewed by anyone. He told us that there was communication, there was some kind of language there.

that recordings were made of this strange language that he could not, uh, could not identify. He said, these Brazilian air force guys were scared after days of this, they gave him a piece, a firearm. And so I wouldn't know how this is going to go, but if, if shit hits the fan, you got to be ready to jump in and help defend yourself. And so, you know, that's all I've been waiting for. All I've been waiting for is a police officer to hand me a gun and say, if the aliens come shoot him in the head, that is all I've wanted. Yeah.

That sounds like something about a John Wick movie or something. So was this an attack or like a science experiment on humans? Well, it's always been characterized as an attack with no motive, but this was a sampling operation. This was an investigation where they were collecting samples of blood and tissue from all these people. And, you know, so many of them ended up in hospitals, hundreds of them, most of the in the same hospital. All those records vanished.

The Brazilian Air Force files at the time, the Brazilian government was a military junta. They had taken over and there were reporters that we tracked down. There's one really great guy named Carlos who was on the scene while the investigation was underway. The military reached out to his publication, the biggest newspaper in Brazil, and told him, knock it off.

He kept digging anyway, but they wouldn't publish this stuff anymore. All those files went into a vault somewhere and were put away. And the Brazilian people and the rest of the world didn't get to see it for 20, 25 years. And then they started releasing it. They had there were a couple of ufologists in there who petitioned the government. They had a after the military government was gone and a civilian government was in there. They had their own version of a FOIA and they released some of this stuff, but didn't release all of it.

Those files, here's where it leads to Las Vegas. Those files, when the DIA's secret program, OSAP, which was based here in Las Vegas, the largest acknowledged UFO investigation ever,

ever funded by the US government. Right here in my backyard, Bigelow and his team who had the contract for the DIA sent teams to Brazil multiple times. They got the files, they brought back everything. And it went into this DIA vault from the Brazilian vault.

And I got to see it. Now, I'm not I didn't have a clearance. I wasn't supposed to see it, but I was friends with these guys. And I co-wrote two books with the two guys who managed the program. And the Calaris files were essentially a big part of it. They did studies. They dug into it. Jacques Vallée, the great Jacques Vallée.

was the only Western investigator I know that had gone to Calaris on his own back closer to when these events had occurred. And he actually dug up that same information that largely got ignored, that this was a sampling operation, not an attack. It's very fascinating. Then you also look at like a direct comparison is the episode of, you're talking about USOs, the unidentified submerged objects coming out of the Gulf of Mexico, maybe to even protect a community. Yeah, I think-

I'd never heard that before, but we went to Tampico and met with these, the locals, they have aliens everywhere. It's in such a Mitch, the same way happened. The same thing happened in Calaris. They were scared to death. Hundreds of people left their homes, just split and then eventually came back. And now they've sort of embraced the whole UFO idea. They've got little landmarks and gift shops and alien images all over the place in that town. And it, it,

I think they're still nervous about the idea that it might happen again. And there have been different outbreaks of similar activity there. And the same thing was in Tampico. They believe that there's some kind of base under the water. We helped look for, did some sampling of water to see if there's something in it. Talked to the local meteorologist who said, yeah, it's kind of a coincidence. The folklore is that there's an alien base that protects us from hurricanes. And we looked at the records. There have been hurricanes that sort of

Got close, but all the big ones skipped right past it. And it's just a very odd coincidence over a long period of time. You say you'll learn a new language each year, but few actually follow through. You have no discipline. You can't change your life for the better. Sad, but Babbel makes it easy for you to learn one in less time than you think. Isn't that better? Making it easy.

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the phenomena about... These are two sides of the spectrum. You have on one hand, we look at cattle mutilations very similar to what even happened to humans in Calaris. It's like one stripe. Is there a way... What's your opinion? Are we looking at different...

Are we looking at species, different planets? What is the what would be a conjecture point? Like I like I'm trying to figure out like what like how does it all fit into one big picture? You know, I'll just give you my opinion. I've been pretty far up the food chain and you guys and I have talked about this before and trying to figure out this. Is there anybody that really knows for sure? And the answer is no. Yeah.

You know, gone pretty far up there. There are different ideas. The smartest people in the world who had access to the best information and evidence believe that the most likely answer is there are multiple different forms of non-human intelligence that have visited us. Some of them could even be from the future, us from the future coming back.

to see where things went wrong. Extraterrestrials is still into the mix. That was the dominant paradigm when I started a long time ago. Yeah, they got physical, actual creatures from another planet here, right? That to me, at this point, is almost the smallest percentage point now. Well, you know, there's these things called von Neumann probes. We've talked about doing it. Send these probes out and the

Eventually, we'd like them to be self-reproducing so that they can take different forms and stay out over long periods of time and look for people like us. So extraterrestrial is still in the mix. Interdimensional is in the mix. And then there are some people that talk about pretty exotic ideas that kind of go over my head. Ultra terrestrials, something like essentially gods.

that have always been here, that are not even physical anymore, that could intervene in our world, in our reality, in a physical way when they want to, and play games with us. But in large part, I would have to say that the overall effect is kind of positive. I mean,

I mean, most of the people I talk to now, we went to Phoenix and we'll get into that if you want. But the Phoenix Lights folks, this didn't cut. There's a lot of stuff we shot that didn't make the cut. You have the best episode on the Phoenix Lights I have seen of a television documentary series about.

Yeah. And not just that, the fact that you said that they saw lights in Texas and in New Mexico on the same night.

It started here in Nevada. Now, that didn't make this show, the episode either, but the first sightings was here over at Henderson, Nevada and Lake Mead. And then a couple hours later, it was over Phoenix and then New Mexico and then Texas.

That was not flares. No, they tried to deny it. Then they tried to cover it up and muddy the waters. I've even heard a story that it was some kind of a large dirigible privately owned. Well, if some guy flies that dirigible over an international airport right next to a U.S. Air Force base, there's going to be hell to pay. Yeah, it was trouble. It was something else. And the interviews we did with the

People who are closest to that Phoenix lights who, whose lives were transformed, didn't make the series maybe next year, if there's another part two, but, um,

Their lives changed dramatically. Their stories were really moving to me, and I had never heard them before. You know, I knew about the attempted cover-up and muddy-the-water stuff, and we got to, I think, got pretty close to the truth on that. But how it transformed people's lives in a positive way. We heard the same thing from folks in Tampico. You know, the people in Oregon, they're having cattle mutilations, the latest outbreak. It is ongoing, by the way. They don't see it in a very positive way. It's been nothing but...

but scary and bad and financially disastrous for them. But in general, we know that these beings, wherever they're from, maybe from multiple places, have incredible technological capabilities. They could cause serious harm if they wanted to. They shut down nuclear weapons. They've enabled nuclear weapons. They've tried to get us to pay attention and take care of our planet.

They could obviously do bad things that they wanted to. They haven't done it yet. And for a lot of people that we encountered in all these travels, it is overall a very positive experience, these encounters. It does seem to expand minds and consciousness very often. It seems to be almost, it's almost like the purpose of their interaction with us, if that is indeed. You hear people say who've tried DMT or who've encountered aliens or people who do psilocybin, how it changes their outlook, like basically forever. Yeah.

I think that that's comparable to what these UFO encounters, the effects it's had on a lot of people. Oh, yeah. It makes people wear patchouli for the rest of their lives. And it is. It's got to stop. I do want to say when this series came out, like so it comes out right before this new UAP congressional hearing. Are you at all like.

Like when it came when you're happy that it all led together. Yeah, there's a lot of speculation on whether that was timed, whether we had something to do with it. They originally the date was going to be the day of the hearing. They didn't know there was going to be a hearing on that date when they're done to release it. And I told them they changed it. I don't know. They moved it up, but it was not done on purpose that way. It's just when they got it done, it was ready to go.

I did not see the finished episodes until they were done. Oh, sure. I didn't get to see, you know, what had been left in and what had been left out. I was happy overall. But, you know, I know people won't believe this, but as a guy who works in television, I don't like being on television. I don't like to have my face on it. So it was painful for me to watch some of that stuff.

Look at that doddering old fart. You look good, dude. You actually like you. You do look bad ass. You've aged well. You've aged very well. I just took me two weeks to get through those episodes. But, you know, and there's things I would do differently because I'm a news guy. But those people really know how to put together a TV show. There's producers that were worked on it. And the.

The photographers and the technical folks, man, they were just top notch professionals. So they put out a good product. It's just painful. Some of the things that didn't get in that I hope we'll get to make public in some other platform. What I loved about Investigation Alien is kind of like my biggest gripe with learning about this stuff. It's always, oh, I got the best thing you ever saw. You can't see it.

You know, and so I liked how you... Well, that's what the entire UAP congressional hearing was. Yeah. That's how I felt. I was sitting here being like, show me the cuboid flight pattern of the orbs. Yeah.

but that's what I enjoyed about investigation alien was you would really grill anyone who showed up to be like, okay, when can I see this? How, when can I establish proof? Cause right now you're telling me a lot of things I want to hear, but you got nothing for me. And I really appreciated your candor with these people because that's how I see it too. And, uh, and so what have we learned from the new congressional hearing? That is that, uh,

Number one, that George was absolutely vindicated with the jellyfish UFOs that you all made fun of me on. They look silly. I'm sorry. They made fun of me. They didn't believe, George. They didn't believe in the jellyfish UFOs. When I showed them after Weaponize came out, I said I freaked out. I showed them as much as possible. But the

fact that it was like one of the top examples that they listed so like yeah i'll just say it so to set it up just so you guys would be like we've been talking about the uap congressional i love this because now i can talk with you about this what did you take from it what was your first reactions it does seem it's good to be talking about this information in such crazy detail but where are the goddamn pictures

Yeah, I we could talk about the congressional hearing or Immaculate Constellation. I want to talk. Yeah, because Immaculate Constellation is the big reveal of the UAP congressional hearing was that. And that is what they call like a USAP, right? Is it called an unspecified secret access program, which is just like all SAP? So essentially all SAP got wiped once it got leaked and then they made a new one. Immaculate Constellation, which does sound like a Christian album.

Yeah. Well, Jeremy Corbell and I have been in communication with some people about this for a while. I'm not going to say an individual or anything like that, but there had been a lot of communication. And and then there was a report that was prepared that Jeremy took to D.C. I was I was stuck here in Las Vegas working for KLS. I couldn't make that trip. I did some stories on it from afar. But and this is this is this 11 page report.

document, right, that talks about all of the essentially the evidence that is within Immaculate Constellation. Yeah, it is a Department of Defense document.

program, initiative that is hidden inside sort of the structure under the White House. So it's not FOIA-able. You couldn't find it. DOD can stand there and say, we don't have a program by that name because officially it is housed somewhere else and you can't access it. But that program using this AI type software would scour all these classified program and platforms and

scoop up the good stuff and take it over here and keep it in the out, out of public view. It's still, that material still exists on classified servers for other agencies. It doesn't disappear, but the best stuff goes over there so that somebody can analyze it. And this,

These people that were involved in it had shared this information with us, warned us that, boy, you talk about this, use this code name and say it out loud. You are going to be subject to surveillance. And I'm going, oh, you know, it's not exactly a new thing here. We're not. Yeah. I mean, I'm in this. Oh, don't threaten me with that. They're watching. Yeah. So.

Jeremy has taken it a step further. He was willing to bring the person in. In fact, I think I wouldn't be surprised if he had actually made the introductions in person. And so get this document wanted to have he was willing to get this person to show up as a surprise witness and testify. And they said no.

And then when he gives them this report with his cover page, his name, my name on it, we're giving this to you so you can put it on the record. Suddenly the next morning, when this all goes public, they take the top cover page off, introduce it, and the committee agrees.

thanks Michael Schellenberger for giving it to him. And he says, oh yeah, no problem. Michael Schellenberger is a great guy, good guy, good journalist, but he'd never seen that report. The night before the hearing, Jeremy showed it to him. He'd never seen it. Jeremy introduces it, gives it to Congress, and then they thank Michael Schellenberger for doing it. And they announced, as you saw, a couple of really strange statements. We were told that we can't ask questions about certain things.

And they didn't, you know, they didn't take it where we thought it should go. They didn't even mention that there had been an offer to bring this person in and to testify under oath. They just they kept asking the same kind of questions they always do. It was very odd. Let me just say this, though. Anytime you have a congressional hearing.

something that important and that weighty, that platform, that's a good step. I applaud those members of Congress for taking the step and having the courage to take on a topic that has been subjected to scorn and derision and stigma for so long. There is risk to them in doing that. So anytime you have a congressional hearing,

and ask questions and have somebody like Lou Elizondo there and say, yeah, we have UAP recovery efforts. Yeah, there is a reverse engineering program. It is hidden. It's real. That's good to get that on the record. The stuff with the Immaculate Constellation just left a sour taste in my mouth. But still, I applaud Congress for having this and for agreeing to take a next step. What I don't understand is there's an underlying subtext here that's going on.

And it's really caused me some sleepless nights. I think Jeremy's had the same reaction. Other bits and pieces of the Trump administration to come, people who have been very outspoken about UAP transparency, now will be confirmed in really high positions. We have the tech bros coming in, promising to gut the federal budget, move things around.

Obviously, we're going to see a lot of money that is in defense programs, I think, be transferred to space programs. And I'm wondering if some of those tech people and space people are

have influenced what Congress was doing there that are shaping that. Do you think we're closer than ever than maybe getting the aliens to take RFK Jr. back? Thank you, Mike George. No, you did a good job. He might eat them. He might eat them. Some new meat. That's new meat. One thing that come out in this report that is truly, I think...

It's hard because it's a lot of information and we all want more proof. We all want more granular proof. But the stuff that they talk about is fascinating. The fact that, well, if we don't have a UFO retrieval program, then why are there several members of the military industrial complex essentially being paid health insurance benefits from being injured?

from these crash retrieval programs. How do we know? And what does that mean by injured? Do we know what that means yet? Well, there is a report that was prepared as part of the OSAP program. One of the documents that I made public and that is now in the public realm, one of the only things from OSAP that was made public is about injuries that happen. And some of them are just coincidental. Because you wrote that have been skinwalkers in the Pentagon. You wrote about the idea of the hitchhiker phenomenon, this other stuff happening. But it

I was just like, when I heard injury... This is physical injuries. People who are in proximity to these craft have serious health consequences. I'll give you a name of one of them. John Burroughs. The Rendlesham Forest thing. He got too close to this craft. It had long-term health consequences for him. Senator John McCain is the guy who went to bat for him because the...

Pentagon said, no, this is in your head. It's not real. McCain went to bat for him and got him those benefits, and other people have them as well. In that OSAP report that was endured, is what it's called, they listed a number of injuries to civilians and military folks with their encounters with these UFOs. One of the cases that we had in that book you mentioned, skinwalkers at the Pentagon, these blue orbs, woman and her daughter driving through a

I think it's Oregon, dark at night by themselves, a dark, lonely road. See these two blue orbs

off in a field. The daughter mentions it to mom who's driving. And as soon as she mentions it, these things react. They suddenly are aware that there's a car there. They fly toward the car, come into the passenger compartment. One of these blue orbs goes into mom's chest on one side and pops out on the other side. And there were health consequences for her that kicked in a couple of hours later when she got home. There was a physician's, a part of our SAP,

who monitored her health progress over the next two years. And these injuries are real and they do happen. It's not like these UFOs are trying to kill her. I think they were trying to learn something about her. And that was some sort of information gathering program again. It wasn't not necessarily an attack, but it had consequences for her. And there are a lot of cases like that. And now Congress knows about them. But there's so much more information. That was when I was there last year,

my statement that I submitted to him, I said, look, there's a gigantic storehouse of information that the taxpayers paid for that you have never seen, not one page of it. These reports are sometimes 140, 200 page long. There's one 143 page analysis of the Tic Tac by engineers and physicists, and it has never been made public, not one page of it. But

But if they tried to get it, I haven't heard about it. It's just kind of because especially the other things the report just drops that acts really casual about is the reversed engineered report.

craft built to appear like UAPs from foreign intelligences. And then the idea of like, they just, they act like it's well known that the triangle crafts are just, are built by us, which I've always, the theory I had, but in that document, they're like, oh no, those are ours or, or those are China's.

Well, we do have some triangles. You know, the NIDS, which was based here, Bigelow's organization, was the precursor to the OSAP program. This was a private effort funded entirely by Robert Bigelow, brought together all these ex-spooks, CIA guys, UFO luminaries, academics, some really big people. Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, was part of it.

Harrison Schmidt, US Senator at the time, the last man to walk on the moon, he was part of it. I remember I was the speaker who was the first one to speak to that group, the first meeting that they had to tell them about Russia and the Russia files. I walked in and I was just blown away by the quality of people who are there. NIDS did its own study of the triangles

And they think that at least some of them are ours because of how they tracked them, where they were going. But they couldn't understand why you would do that. Why would you expose...

top secret programs by flying right over an interstate highway over big cities. Some of it didn't make sense. Colm Kelleher, my longtime friend, has a theory about why he, what he calls bi-direction mimicry is that we see them and we try to match their technology. And sometimes they see us and do the same thing.

Black helicopters, some of these black helicopters that show up at UFO scenes and at cattle mutilations, they're not helicopters. They look like helicopters. And I think the same thing is happening right now with these drones appearing over Air Force bases and sensitive military platforms. UK, right now, as we speak, these things are buzzing, highly sensitive installations where nuclear weapons are stored and nobody can do anything about it.

They can't bring them down. There are legal difficulties in shooting missiles or something like that at a drone and knocking it out of the sky, especially in a populated area. And there are international rules about those kind of things. But I can tell you this. They have tried to shoot them down, and they can't. And they don't know where they come from. Suddenly, they're there. They can't track who's controlling them. You should be able to do that, but you can't.

And then suddenly they're gone and you don't know where they go. Now that's pretty scary. They use this term drones as if, well, you know, you went to Walmart and bought these things. That's not what they are. And, you know, I guess people try to say they must be Chinese drones.

Well, I'd say that somebody really dropped the ball if they have made a technological leap like that and we didn't see it coming. And now they're flying with impunity over sensitive installations all over. And we don't know who they are or how this technology works. And we can't do a damn thing about it.

I think it's them building things that look like drones, biomimicry and bidirectional mimicry in the opposite direction. I that has been a theory I've had since when I first got into the Rendlesham Forest incident. And I was reading about this and it kind of that was a little revelation, I think, in mind. It's like they're copying us now.

They're like, they might be fascinated with us in that way, and they're trying to mimic us. That's why also sometimes I wonder about whether or not it is actually an active, purposeful study of us, or it's just...

there's something about us that they're attracted to. What better way to hide than to make it look like it's us? Let me ask, though. Obviously, all this is conjecture. Why do they feel the need to hide? What is even disclosure going to do for us? Because we're violent. But, I mean, I think they're intermedium, interdimensional creatures. There's nothing we can do to hurt them permanently. What's the point of hiding when...

Or what? And then what's the point of disclosure? What is really like telling people something that we don't understand that's going on? Is that just going to frighten people? Is it just going to make people crazy? You know, we don't know what their time frame is. So for them, you know, we think the modern UFO era is last 75, 80 years. For them, that might be a weekend. You know, they don't worry about years as we do. And if they have the ability to travel through time, they will.

worry about it even less. I suspect that they live here, that they've always lived here, that it's their planet too. Those alien editorials that they give to people where they say, knock it off with the nuclear weapons and please take care of your planet. Quit poisoning it. It's because it's their planet too. Yeah. Yeah.

Or maybe they have a long-term plan that they need it to be in one piece and not a smoldering nuclear radiated wasteland. I think that by going into the ocean, by hiding and keeping, they don't have to have

as many confrontations with us as possible, but sometimes they'll do a Phoenix lights kind of a demonstration to tell us, yeah, we're here. We're not attacking you, but we're here and we want you to keep it in mind. I think that we only see them when they allow us to see them. It's like the Tic Tac. The Tic Tac was so theatrical in a way,

It's zipping around over something really big in the ocean, something that was about the size of a 747. And then Dave Fravor flies down near it to take a look and it reacts to him. Oh, what are you doing here? We didn't know there was a giant naval flotilla right in this area that's been there for two weeks. Gosh, I'd better get out of here. And then it zips off and it goes to the cap point where they were supposed to be, where all these flights were supposed to go next. It's there already waiting for them, playing games. I think

They allowed us to see it. I think we only saw the tic-tac because they took the shields down at that moment and allowed us to see it because they want us to know they're there. And there's a long-term socialization process for humans to get used to it. You know, the Brookings Institute did that study in 1960. It was kept quiet for a long time, but they said, if we have confirmed contact with a

with a more technologically advanced civilization, it would have dire consequences. Our social institutions would crumble. People would panic. It would be really creeped out just by announcing that. The same kind of thing that happens when Europeans get to North America.

what happened to the people who are already here who are less sophisticated. So the answer to it was a long-term program of socialization and whether or not this has been done on purpose, it sure as hell looks like this is how it would go. If you are doing it on purpose, movies, TV, books, aliens, they're real. Sometimes they're just our little buddies, like, like ET. Yeah. They're cute. I worry about this stuff, you know? So, um,

I don't know. You know, I think about this stuff a lot, obviously. Of course. I don't have the answers, but I feel since that Netflix thing, I feel a little bit better about the whole process and what might happen. Now, do you and you're all of your files. Do you have stuff that you could never show us in your files? And if you do, why?

Well, I have it because, you know, it's like I would learn things about OSAP and about NIDS that helps me, even though I can't go public with it, it helps me understand the playing field. It allows me to know who is completely full of shit and making stuff up sometimes. So, and when I get material like that, there are conditions attached to it and I honor those conditions, but my intention is always, I'm going to find a way to get this out at some point. You know, Skinwalker Ranch is,

I was hearing that from my friends at NIDS. They bought it in 96 and I start hearing what they're doing. I wasn't able to, I kept pestering them, let me go. It was seven years before I could print a word. You know, and with OSAP, it was longer than that. It was 10 years. I said all that stuff because I had agreed to do it. And it allowed me to be, to have a nose under the tent and

and to learn things about the big picture, and to be able to report other things in the context of what I knew to be true. So it was valuable. Anything I have, it's because someday I want to report it. And I have been able to report a lot of things that I never thought I'd be able to release.

So everything that I've got here, I've got some cool stuff if you want to see it. Yeah. Yeah, buddy. Yes, we do. Also, I got a show to pitch for you called George's Boxes where you just go through your box, you pull out a mystery and you investigate it. I collect a lot of UFO related artwork.

And if you ever get to my house, you'll see it. Whoa, what is that? That's me riding a flying saucer. That's you on a UFO. That's great. That's very George Clinton of you. A little artist, a local artist had done that and then put it up for sale. I think it was on display at city hall. They knew damn good. Well, I'd come get it just so it didn't fall into the wrong hands. Yeah.

Yeah, you got so many files. Yeah, show us something. Give us a hint. Show us something. Also, I don't want to be morbid, but what's your will look like? These are lobby cards for movies. Oh, yeah. Lobby cards. There's a whole market in this. This is from Invasion of the Body Snatchers, signed by Kevin McCarthy. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I have a thing about mantises that we could talk about. These are lobby cards from the deadly mantis. I don't know if you ever saw that movie. No, I've never seen the movie, but I know the aliens. I know the mantis aliens are all the time. I want to know where they are. Show me something good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, come on. Oh, wow. Oh, it is. It's a very gross little alien man. A little penis. There's a friend of mine who's a very talented artist and sculptor, Jeff Taylor. He had made Kirk Douglas like this and takes it to these model companies and model shows and sells them. And he had traded a Kirk Douglas for this alien when he saw it. You can't see it, but close up.

It's got veins and stuff. Yeah, it looks good. It's wild. I would wear pants if I was this guy. I'd wear pants. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cover his little butt. Oh, my God. It looks like my body. It really does. Technically, it's like looking in a mirror. It's not fair. It tells you when you lose weight, you look worse.

In that section of this, you can't see it, are books. That's a big stack of books. This pile are ones I have to read. This pile is ones for the radio show. These are books I have read that I haven't figured out where to put yet. Yeah, this is my life. Russia stuff, that's, you know, I made two trips to Russia in the 90s and brought back a lot of stuff. Some of it was not classified. Some of it was classified and I had to be really careful about how I got it out of the country. Yeah.

Wow. You just have so many UFO cases just around you. This is literally it's, it's Mulder's office. Just a little mutilation stuff. These are a lot of this is government files. A lot of it are case files that I got from police agencies. There were a bunch of cattle mutilations here in Nevada in the seventies before I even started, uh,

doing this stuff. So I went out, got local lawmen to share photos with me and the original police reports and a lot of newspaper clippings. We're going to get you an intern. That's what you need. You need an intern in here, man. Yeah, probably so. This is a really interesting case. Las Vegas Fireball. So April 18th,

1962, which is my birthday, not the right year, but that date. That's my wife's birthday. This fireball, it comes in over Cuba, comes into our atmosphere over Cuba, goes all the way up the eastern seaboard. It gets to about New York and it takes an abrupt turn and then goes all the way across the United States. Fighter jets were chased, were dispatched to go chase it, couldn't keep up with it. It gets to Utah and it lands in this little town, knocks out the power to the whole town.

takes off again and then gets over Nevada just outside of in between Las Vegas and Mesquite and explodes. And that fireball was seen was so big it was seen all over the West.

I tracked down the guy who... This is when I first started. I tracked down the guy who led the posse out to look for wreckage. They thought it was an airplane at first. He's long gone now. And then I got the original Blue Book reports, and they said it was a meteor. You know, a meteor comes in, up the eastern seaboard, takes a left turn, 90-degree turn. Yeah, and lands. Lands, takes off again. So...

That would be a cool, I dug up the, not only the Blue Book records, but all the newspaper accounts at the same time. Damn, dude, this is all like, this could be a good segment on Coast to Coast too, man. This is a file on Howard Cannon.

Howard Cannon was the U.S. Senator from Nevada. Everybody says Harry Reid, you know, he did great things. And I have had a 30-year secret conversation with him. And he helped me immensely. And I helped him and got him involved in the subject. And he got it on the funding that made for OSAP, which led to AATIP, which led to the UAP Task Force, which is why this congressional hearings are happening in the first place. It happened here. It started with Reid. His predecessor, though, four-term Senator Howard Cannon,

who was like the father of Nellis Air Force Base. He was very close to the guys from Lockheed, had a deep interest in UFOs that he never spoke about publicly, but I did talk to him before he died. And he had been, his closest friend in the Senate was Barry Goldwater.

You've heard those stories about Barry Goldwater. He wanted to go to the Blue Room at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. He'd heard about these flying saucers. I want to see it. I'm the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee or Intelligence Committee. I've got the highest clearances. I want to go. Yeah, well, look, yeah.

Yeah. Well, it turns out Howard Cannon, his buddy, had also tried to go. And he told me, I asked him about it. He said, yeah, we, Barry wanted to go. And I did too. But he says, look, what would be the point? You get in there and see it. You couldn't tell anybody what you see it. And he said, and people would call you crazy. But he was. People already call me crazy. People.

People already call me crazy. People can look at it. Everybody can say I was crazy and I can sound like a crazy person at the bus stop. That's my life. A lot of files related to NIDS and OSAP. So the Skinwalker Ranch, I got boxes and boxes of Skinwalker Ranch stuff, but there was another ranch, one in Colorado where the same kind of things happen. And the guys from NIDS and then into OSAP

did surveys of other places. One of the reasons I was allowed to go to Skinwalker was that the phenomena had gone underground for a while. And they thought by me going there and doing a story about it, it might alert them to where other hotspots could be that they could study. It did. There were several. There was Sedona, Yakima, Washington, San Francisco,

Dulce, New Mexico, and they sent teams and were there on the ground for months and months. See, that's fascinating, George. That idea that they were... Everyone says that about Skinwalker Ranch. They're like, well, why isn't it happening a lot then? Like, oh, if they're everywhere, if they're out in the middle of nowhere, why have we only a Wisekinwalker Ranch, the only celebrity version of the evil haunted ranch? It seems like the phenomena is all over the country.

A lot of it comes from looking for it. You know, you have to be willing to look. If you put the kind of effort that NIDS and then OSAP did, and now Brandon Fugle and his team, and focused on one area, you're going to be able to do a lot of things.

you might find a whole heck of a lot of stuff everywhere that there's some degree or another. Now it's higher at Skinwalker. Part of what I could not release was there are files where these investigators, boots on the ground, not at the ranch, they went everywhere around the ranch in this concentric circles further and further out. They talked to hundreds of people around there that had nothing to do with Bigelow who shared their stories of creature encounters that were just incredible.

crazy, off-the-wall ridiculous gargoyles that look like what's on top of the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, on top of a trailer a mile away from Skinwalker Ranch, broad daylight, woman and her husband seeing this stuff. They didn't want their names used, which is one reason that this stuff has never been released and may never be released. But there are so many weird creatures and activities. They saw so many, they were able to make a map

of what the routes are used by these various creatures. Werewolves, dino beavers, things that are ridiculous. No scientist, no government investigator wants to be the guy who goes and chases down stories of werewolves. But, you know, the point of OSAP was you follow the evidence where it leads. They're there to study UFOs and figure out why they keep appearing so often. Do you just ignore the fact that

Every single one of the government investigators who went there took something home with them. That was an outbreak of weird shit at their homes. Wolf men, creatures, orbs inside their house, shadow beings. There's one guy whose name will come out later, but it happened to him at the ranch. Immediately, his family starts seeing these creatures. Broad daylight.

out in their yard, leaning on a tree. Who do you even tell that to? I don't know. It only happened to him. People like us. And then you just sound like you're from an insane asylum. He's like, sorry. It only happened to him and his family right after he came back. It's continuing now. It's continuing 11, 12 years after he was there on the ranch. And it's not only one house. He sold one house on the East Coast.

and then moved to a different state. His kids moved into that house. It's still happening to them there. And it's happening to he and his wife in the state where they moved to. That's fascinating. Do you just ignore that? Not put it in the files because somebody will think it's crazy? Or do you just follow the evidence where it leads?

That is, man, George, what a life. So cool. Thank you so much for sharing this stuff with us. Before we go, is there like a white whale for you? Is there like a thing out there that you want to land besides just literally having lunch with an alien? Well, um,

Lazar on Area 51. I don't know that anyone's ever going to admit that that was real. If there is element 115, a piece of it somewhere, it would really be pretty cool to get that confirmed in a way that could be publicly acknowledged. I think that would be my white whale because that was my point of entry for this. I took so much grief over it, still do to some extent, but...

Um, it, it, it made my skin a lot tougher and thicker. And, um, and I think it, it helped to, um, put a burr under my saddle and inspire me to stick with it. Cause I was so pissed off at how

Not just I was treated more about the topic, you know, it's really it's kind of come full circle with Netflix because the stigma was so real back then. I had all kinds of journalists, newspapers, other broadcasters who made fun of me, editorial cartoons and all that. I don't mind. I'm a grown man. I can handle that. It comes with the territory. But they'd never done any of the work.

They'd never gone out there hundreds of nights in a row and to go out near Area 51 to see what's flying around or interviewed the witnesses or filed FOIA complaints or read the documents, reams of documents that were already publicly available. They never did any of that. What they could do is make wisecracks. Look, there's Elvis coming back from the dead on a flying saucer.

And I just couldn't understand it. So my main goal back in those days, starting, and it's still true to this day, was to get other journalists to take it seriously. And now it's happening. There's a whole new generation of people who now find they can pursue this topic. They can put together news reports and newspaper accounts and the stories get past their editors and it's taken seriously and it's being looked at in Congress. That Netflix thing, what appealed to me about it, I didn't really want to go...

travel the world and leave my wife at home for all those months and everything by herself. But I wanted to be able to have a global platform. That's really what it was, is to reach the whole world. Just like you said, you weren't up to speed on it. That was the point of it, to get the public up to speed. It wasn't created for UFO world, because I know that they're going to bitch and moan and whine about it no matter what. Yeah, there's nothing you could do. You literally could show up with an alien on a tour. You could do a dual stand-up show.

tour with an alien and they're still going to be like fake or whatever they're going to be exactly arrive at the washington hearing in bob lazar's flying saucer sport model with a nine foot tall alien and walk in and they'd be gone come on now how do we know he's from alpha centauri you know where's his birth certificate yeah exactly yeah does he have an only fans yeah immediately but i really that would be that would be my white whale if they could somehow we could figure out a way to confirm all that stuff

I'm comfortable with the idea that I'll die without, before I know ultimately what the truth is. I'm okay with that because the journey has been so worthwhile. Learning about

how government works, how the military, how they operate and spread disinformation and muddy the waters to keep this secret. They're good at their job. They're better at their job than I am at mine. But you have to try, right? And even though we don't learn everything, we do know, we have the locations of where some of this stuff is stashed, the goodies. We know about it. Can't just knock on the door and say, let me in. But Congress knows where some of it is too.

So that's a big step. That's a lot of progress. And I am not an optimist at all. I'm the pessimist. I'm the one that says they are never going to release this stuff. After that last Arrow report, not this one that just came out, but last year's, it became very clear that they dismissed all those witnesses. They made an appeal to all these whistleblowers. Come on in. Tell us your stuff. Bring us your evidence.

It seemed like it was a counterintelligence operation to identify who the leaks are, who they need to nullify, who they need to keep an eye on. And then they dismissed it all. Just, you know, Sean Kirkpatrick went on his own speaking tour, kind of given all these interviews, dismissing all these really honorable people who came in, risked their reputations to share the truth and then got dumped on.

But I am a little bit optimistic by what I've been seeing over the last couple of weeks and hearing from pretty high up folks who think there's going to be an announcement of some kind. I've heard that.

Every year for 37 years since I've been involved in this subject. And I've never believed it and never thought it was going to be true. I have at least a little bit of hope that maybe we're on the cusp of something here now. This is real. And you're part of the reason why you're part of the reason why we're here because of the work that you've done. Well, I hope so. I mean, you know, I could tell you the reaction to that Netflix thing. Holy cow. I mean, I get a lot of email, usually a thousand a day, something like that.

It's doubled. I got messages so far today from South Africa, from Bali, Denmark, Paris, Scotland, Paraguay. I've got them from Costa Rica, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Canada, Tasmania, Morocco, Australia, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Iceland, Sweden,

and a lot of them with videos attached and photos and incredible stories. I've had offers from ex-military, ex-intelligence guys, professionals in all kinds of fields, commercial pilots, all them offering to help because they saw that series.

And so it really is kind of an encouraging reaction because the response has been overwhelmingly positive. And it's exactly what I hope to accomplish and what these producers and the Netflix folk hope to accomplish. Well, it worked. It really worked. 43 years in and I'm hooked finally. Yeah, you got him. Yeah. He thought this stuff was stupid. He's yelling at me. And now he's into it. So you won, George. And I'm actually a little actually angry a little bit.

Again, can't wait to come to the opening night party for Vincent's Secret. I know that you're going to show the world what a true investigative journalist's body looks like.

And I want to say thank you for actually wearing some of the samples just on the show today. I would like to have a longer period of time to prepare the public to, you know. Oh, this has been great, George. Thank you so much. We always got your back here at Last Podcast at 11. Always. Absolutely. So go check out Investigation Aliens and go check out Weaponized with George Knapp and Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, guys. Always great to talk to you. Dude, thank you so much, Mr. Knapp.

And we got to come to that house sometime. We'll let you know next time we're in Vegas. Can I come to your house? We're good. We'll bring bourbon. All right. We'll do that. I love it. I'll see you soon, George. Bye.