Are female journalists to blame? Britt's an exhibitionist and Jameela Jamil won't be interviewed by women anymore.
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This episode was recorded on Camarago land.

Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. And Brittany is just back from, what number are you at now? At what? Honey, mini moon. Mini moons. I love it. I'm all for this. I think that this is the new, don't go on honeymoons, don't go on one trip, go on 20. It's actually brilliant. So, yes. Of course it is. It's like the girl who has a birthday mum. Well, no, because they're only three days at a time, including travel time. So, like, that's...

By the time you get to your destination, there's not much time there. Has Ben just become a resident now? Like, according to his visa, yes. No, he's filled out his visa as he's a resident, yeah, and that's why we didn't get into New Zealand. That's a whole other story. So there we go. Let's start with that. No, we already talked about that last week, the poor guy. No, so, yeah, we're doing mini-moons. The reason is I would have loved to have gone on a honeymoon.

like a proper honeymoon. Seven days, 10 days, whatever, just one spot chilled. But we didn't even know Ben was coming to Australia, as you guys remember. So last minute he came here and I had to come back to work. So we were like, let's just do long weekends, three days. It's perfect. So we did New Zealand, obviously, which was amazing, three days. Then we did, I'm actually exhausted. I don't want to complain, but there's a lot of travel. I haven't unpacked in like six weeks. And then we went to Hayman Island on the weekend, again, three days, beautiful, up in the wind Sundays.

This weekend we're going on another little three-day trip as well, which I can tell you about next week. It's not overly exciting, but it's like we're just trying to stay local and do these tiny mini trips. But I reckon there's something in that for anyone getting married in the future. You feel like it's dragging on. Like you feel like you're getting more juice out of it, more bang for the buck. So if you can like split up one big honeymoon into a couple of little ones, that's my suggestion. But we went to Haven Island, which I had never been to, and it's very beautiful. Like it's very small. I did get like –

White Lotus cross Truman show vibes. Like I don't know if you've seen those. It's because Hayman Island and I feel like Wit Sundays is like this to some extent if you've been. Wit Sundays? Yeah.

Yeah. Sweet Sundays. It's definitely sweet Sundays. Am I Laura? Hello. Am I pregnant? I feel as though because they're kind of, and I don't want to say this in a negative way because I absolutely love going there and I've had the most amazing time, but because everything on the island is created for a holiday, like all of the restaurants are kind of owned by the same businesses and the hotels all kind of do that. It just kind of feels as though it's like a manufactured, you will have a holiday here and it will be fun. And you do, 100%.

That's why it's Truman Show vibe. That's what I mean. Yeah, I agree. Because is the sky even real? Well, we went to Hayman Island this time, which is different. So we got engaged in Hamilton Island last year and we thought, let's go somewhere different. So you fly into Hamilton and then you just get a little ferry over. Honestly, like I am shook that in two hours you can be in the Whitsundays from Sydney. Like I think it's the best getaway.

But anyway, we had this like little cute private beach bungalow. Like it's called a beach pavilion. It's one bedroom, but there's like the main hotel that's on the beach. That's like normal hotel. And then on the other side, that's not connected, like just a couple of hundred meters away.

there's a private little beach and they've got these little beach bungalows that they're not attached. They're sort of spread out, but you've got one bedroom, one bathroom, one living room, a hot tub, whatever. And it's literally on the sand. It's amazing. Sounds like heaven. It's heaven. And you get your own private little bit of beach. And when I say private, it's yours out the front, but technically anyone can walk past. So like it's still beach, but

Anyway, I was just living my best life. Like you would roll out of bed and a meter away is this whole glass window from the floor to the ceiling because it's all about the views, right?

And they had like tinted windows where you can see out perfectly and people can't see in. And Ben and I do everything together except he's doing extra training for his football. So he's like doing a lot more gym and stuff. And I'm like, you just go, I'm just going to live my best life here. And so I spent a lot of time naked. Like I just loved being naked in my room because it was very liberating. The views, I was like getting up and doing my stretches and just would walk around naked. I'd come back from a swim, take my swimmers off and just lay on the bed naked. It was amazing.

And it was quite liberating to be able to like sit on your bed nude. And I don't know, there's something that was cool about being like completely naked and knowing that they're metres away. Is Britain exhibitionist now? Well, they can't see, so it doesn't matter. I think I am in my own home too. I love it. Not around Ellie. I try not to do it around my mother-in-law. But like if there's no one home, oh, yeah, freedom. It's amazing. So by the third day, I was sitting on the edge of the bed, a metre away from the window. Spread eagle. Yeah.

Pretty much. I was eating Pringles. I was having a great time. Bearing yourself out. Yeah. Ben walks in from the gym. He's like, babe. He's like, what are you doing? And I was like, what do you mean? What am I doing? I was like eating Pringles. He's like naked. And I was like, yeah, is that a problem? He's like on the bed. And I was like, yeah. He's like, when there's a family walking past you. And I was like.

yeah, they can't see me, Ben. He's like, what do you mean they can't see you? And I was like, it's like a two-way mirror. I was like, I can see how they can't see. And he's like, are you fucking kidding me? He's like, go outside now and look in. It was not a two-way mirror. I was just naked for four days thinking no one could see me. Every person that could walk past, here I am waving, eating my naked Pringles, everyone can see me. How high up were you? Ground level. Oh, you were ground.

It's like it's you to me away. It is me here naked eating my Pringles and a family's walking past. I'm like thinking that they can't see me. Okay, because I've only ever been to the Whits Sundays and I, you know, the really like high rise one. I was like, oh, it's fine. No one can see me that far away. Beach hot on the ground. That's fucking gold. Were there any families that decided to take multiple trips that day? Just the dad.

There was a dad that set up camp out front. So weird. There's one dad walked past 15 times. There's no fish there though. Did you know it gets worse? Somebody came to fix the hot tub because it wasn't heating enough and the hot tub's outside. The worker. I was just inside watching him fix it but there was no tub on. I was like –

Did nobody? Hold on. At no point did anyone like look at you. Yes. And did you not have moments where you were like, it feels like they can see me? Well, it's such a beautiful villa that I just thought they were looking at the villa. It just didn't even clock. I was so convinced because it was quite tinted. So I was so convinced, but I think the tinting is for the sunlight. Wow. That is exceptional. That is exceptional. I'm fucking here for it. I didn't see anyone pull a camera out though, which is good.

Well, we're not going to get the Daily Mail photos of that, which is a shame. But there is something big that's happening in your life this week, Brittany. Bigger than that. It's so big. Okay, so as you guys know and as Daily Mail so kindly wrote an article about Brittany's fake wedding that we all went to Bali for, she said, you know, for your scam wedding.

It was for content. That was the closest I've been to arguing with people in the comments in a really long time. Oh, I do the same. I was like, shut up, you silly woman. I mean on like actual Daily Mail on Facebook and stuff, seeing the comments on that. Usually they're just such a cesspit. We were talking about Tattle last week. I feel like that's the Australian version of the people who comment on Daily Mail Facebook posts. Yeah.

And I was seeing them and I was just like, I just actually want to throw mud. I literally want to sling mud at you. So for context for this, for anyone who didn't see it, so, you know, we made jokes after Britt's wedding in Bali. We made ha-ha-ha, lots of jokes because the wedding in Bali wasn't legal. I mean, we didn't make jokes. You made the jokes. Yeah, I said, yep, fake wedding. It wasn't fake. It just wasn't technical.

legal. I've had plenty of friends do the exact same thing. Everyone's like, you're going to change your name? I'm like, well, I'm not married. And the reason for that is because when you are both from different countries and you get married in, once again, another country that you're not, neither of you are citizens from, you can't legally get married in that country until you've done all the paperwork in either one of your home countries. Technically,

my understanding is you technically can but it's so complicated that you just don't like to get the paperwork from Switzerland and paper from here the paperwork from Indonesia then there's so many things that have got to line up you need like you could do it if you had months somebody helping you but it was just too hard basket I've also had Aussie friends get married in Bali both of them are Australian and they still got legally married here because it's easier it is

10 times easier. Yeah. And I guess like for anyone who has been married, you would know that usually a month or so before you sign an intention to marry certificate, which is like what puts, it's so that we can't do shotgun weddings in Australia. You can't just go to a chapel and get married to Elvis. It's to try and stop annulments and, you know, shotguns. But anyway, so Britt had done the intention to marry with my friend, so Kaya, who was my celebrant, one of my best friends, is marrying Britt. And this week, dun-da-da-dun-dun-dun,

Brittany's having her fifth wedding dress, but her fourth, I mean, her fourth wedding dress, but her first real wedding. You're never going to have to divorce. Like if you ever divorce, you can't get remarried because you'll be like, it's actually my sixth wedding. I was like, I've actually gone through every dress. Yeah, I'm getting married, which is exciting. But it's like.

It's like, I feel like a bit of a like, is it that exciting? Cause I already did it, but it is, it's, it's a very small, intimate legal ceremony, but it's still, you know, we still have a dress and a photographer and Delilah, the best part Delilah is going to be there. And that was a really huge part because every dog lover that's listening now knows you had Buster Laura, like how much you love having your dog as part of your ceremony. It was really hard decision to get married in Bali because of Delilah. And I know people will think that sounds crazy, but

But like she'd been my bestie for four years now. Yeah, but you're feeling a bit threatened by her. I know this because I ordered. It's weird. From Amazon. And I will say that the picture looked very different to what ended up coming. We got Delilah a veil to wear at the wedding because you said that she would look too much like a boy in a bow tie.

And then the veil came and all of a sudden Brittany's going, I don't think that that's right. I have a different idea. Why don't you just put that big cravat thing that you wore for your wedding on Delilah? Like the big bow flower. Fuck off. That could be the smartest, best thing you've ever said. Thank you. I am a genius. I don't know if Stephen Kalil, how he'll feel about this. What do we call this? It's not a cravat. I call it a neck piece. Okay. Well, we'll put the neck brace on Delilah and she'll be fine. Not a neck brace. She's a neck brace.

It's a neck piece. But also I haven't asked you guys yet, but I would like you both to be my official witness on my wedding certificate. You did. You did ask us, but you didn't ask us. It was literally about an hour ago. Britt said, you guys are signing my certificate. You know what was the first thing I thought of? I was like, well, we have learned the hard way. You can't do this as a joke. Remember when you signed Laura's wedding certificate and you put a fucking smiley face on it? And two kisses. I was like, kiss, kiss.

Because I sign off everything with a kiss. I do plan on doing the same. No. Is it still legal? Yeah, it's fine. There's two lots of forms. There's like your pretty certificate that you can like hang up in your house if you want to. And then there's the legal documents that get submitted. Like it was all legit. Are people hanging up there when you step in their house? I would love it. I'd love to poll that.

It's like when you get a degree and you get it framed and then it just lives in the bottom of your bag. Well, it depends on what your degree was. Like if you did a degree in fine arts, it's probably sitting in the bottom of your drawer. But if you're a doctor, I reckon it's probably going up on a wall somewhere. A lawyer, like those people display that stuff. Yeah, this is actually like something he jokes about all the time. We have a study now in the new house. It's the room that I work from. And the other day I walked into it right above where my computer is. So right in my eyeline on the wall.

he's put his degree there framed, hanging on the wall. And I was like, bro. Do you look around the house at all? Are you like, why is there not a single photo of us together hanging up on a wall, but your degree is here?

pro Toblerone for this I get the degree okay so here's my question for everyone who has a university degree out there what degrees are acceptable to put on the wall because we all know that they're not all acceptable like a lot of people are not hanging them on the wall but have you got your marketing major degree hanging up on the wall have you got like your I don't know what's like your social sciences one like what have you got on the walls and why like nothing against it if you do I just want to know like when you got your certificate what did you think did you put it on wall did you put in a drawer when you say what's the line for like a degree that's a

applicable to be on a wall, like that's allowed to be shown to the world. I think any degree is allowed to be hung up. Like you've gone to uni for three to four years, you've studied your ass off, it doesn't matter what it is, you should be proud of it. But I just don't think that many people do it. I think the only people that are actually doing it are

Probably the doctors. And lawyers. Do you know what's actually kind of funny is that I never picked up my second degree. I did an honours in biomed and I got a second class honours just, I was like just under the cusp. And I like my goal was the first class honours and I was absolutely devastated. So I didn't go to my graduation and I've never picked up my, I've never picked up my degree from the uni. It's a good thing you don't use it. I would just love, let's just poll how many people

have hung their degree. That's what I'd want to know. I don't even know where mine is. Neither. Mine's long gone. Do you hang your wedding certificate? What do you do with it? Do you keep it in like a special folder? Laura doesn't know where hers is. No, I have it in a folder somewhere, but not the pretty one. I just have like the, I have my marriage certificate in the same place I have all of like our birth certificates and stuff. It's there for documents in case we need to do passports and stuff. It's not there for any other reason. Ben said to me yesterday that

baby, do you want the vows that I wrote for you? And I was like, yes, I would love them. I was like, that's so sweet. And so he gave me this piece of paper with a scribble on it. And I look at the paper and I'm like, oh, illegible. I can barely read it. And then I flip it over and it's just on the back of our seating chart. It's like our wedding seating chart. I was like, this actually goes to show you when you wrote this because we only did the seating chart like four days before. Anyway, so I've got that to treasure for the rest of my life. You can hang that up on the wall in the shrine.

All right, well, look, I have a question for everyone. Do you think about your ex or a past sexual experience when you're either A, masturbating or B, having sex with your partner? What a segue from me talking about having four weddings and marrying the love of my life and then I'm like, but do you think about your ex when you have sex with it? No, not you specifically. I'm asking everyone listening. Okay, be honest with yourself. You don't have to be honest with me even if you don't want to do a part. We did one on Life Uncut.

And the reason for this, the reason why I'm asking the question is because there was an article that came up on Body and Soul. The general gist of it was kind of implying that most people think about an ex when masturbating. And I read it and I was like, surely these statistics can't be true. So the article in itself said that 76% of men masturbate

And 59% of women think about an ex when masturbating, according to a new survey that was done from Odoki, which is a pleasure tech company, and they make different sex toys. Actually, they make what is called the handy male sex toy specifically for men. So that 76% of men can think about their exes. But it did get me thinking because I was like, okay, firstly, this is not something that most people would ever admit to, right? Like you are not going to anonymously admit to masturbating about your ex.

unless someone like held you down at gunpoint. Actually, do you know what? Even if I was held down at gunpoint, I would not admit that. Anonymously you would. People do anything anonymously. You wouldn't announce it to like your partner or your friends. Like you wouldn't tell them. Or on a podcast. Or on a national podcast. Like what? What? Oh.

Oh, okay. So apparently this is a thing that is called sexual nostalgia, which does exist. Definitely not as prolifically as what it might have been detailed in this report. So we conducted our own little survey because I wanted to know, I mean, we have such a big following. I guess in like online, whenever we do these polls, we get so many of you guys who actually give us your honest opinions. And this was anonymous. We said like, we did a poll. We weren't looking at who said yes or no. And here's the stats. Do you think about an ex past or present

whilst pleasuring yourself? 9% of you said yes, regularly. You regularly think about your exes. 35% said I have, but I don't always do it, which then I kind of feel like you can bundle those two together because if you have, whether it's every single time or just like sometimes it's still, you still do it. 55% said no, never. Can I just say though, 44% of people saying that they either do all they have in the past is much higher than what I expected that to be.

Really? Well, it's almost half. Like almost half of our listeners think about an ex whilst masturbating. That to me is a wild stat. Yeah. It's wild to me that 50% of people haven't thought about a past experience. They might be single. I don't have a single ex that I would think about while masturbating. Do you know why? Okay, hear me out. I reckon I just drove my relationship so far into the ground that like I-

I made sure that when I left that relationship, I was disgusted in myself and in them. Like there was nothing left to masturbate over. I did it all. I am shocked. I am shocked that that many people are thinking about next. But what is nice to think about in a weird way is that like it means there are people thinking about us.

Because we're someone's ex. Guys, this is something that you can take stock of. Anytime you're having a bad day, just think someone out there is masturbating about me.

100%. That's a nice thought, isn't it? All right. Here's another one for you. We also asked the question, how about when you're having sex now, do you think about a past experience while you're in the moment? 4% of you said that you often do. And this is like whilst you're having sex potentially with your current partner or with a person you're seeing, whatever it is. Long-term, we didn't specify the type of relationship you're in, but it was if you're having sex now, you're thinking about someone from the past.

4% of you said that you often do. 28% said that you have, but you don't do it often. 69% said, no, you've never, ever thought about an ex. So something else that we polled, and I just want everyone to know that you are limited to like a character length on Instagram. So it's kind of hard to get everything across in the options. I don't know if you would know that if you've created a poll before, but we were also interested in the type of person that you thought about

And whether if it wasn't a next, was it someone that you knew or was it like a celebrity kind of fantasy? So 40% of people said that they thought about someone that they have been with. 23% of people said that they thought about someone I know personally. So that was meant to be like, man, it could be like your gym trainer. It could be someone that you work with or someone that you actually interact with, but you haven't been with in the past. And that was 23%.

11% of people said that they fantasized about a celebrity and then 26% of people said none of the above. We did have one really good message come through and say, I wish that the none of the above said all of the above. That's a good point. I reckon that the none of the above includes people that are like, you don't know them personally. It could be... Maybe it's like someone on Instagram. Yeah.

Or it could be someone who you have created, like a fantasy person. That's like not a real person, but like it could be a fantasy situation rather than it being an actual person that you've, you know, met or had some interaction with. It could be a book character for people reading literature. I've done that before. You fucked a book character in your head? I fucked a book. Just I fucked a book. No.

No, I haven't done it. Which character? Now I need to know. Outlander. Have you seen Shrek? I know who it was. It was the guy from Outlander. Have you seen Shrek? Sorry, when Shrek transforms into the prince. He's hot. He's hot. He's actually so hot. I know who it was. It's the guy from Outlander. He's in Sydney at the moment. He's actually at my gym. Watch out, Ben. He's at the gym.

have we gotten this far into recording you haven't mentioned this because I've been trying to get him on the podcast I'm trying to play it cool because then if he did come on the podcast is awkward but he's don't think he's coming on so whatever yeah it was him all right guys we have a question for you do you think that female entertainment journalists have a greater responsibility to report fairly on women in the media now that is a mouthful and a half but hear me out do

Do you think gossipy, bitchy pieces that are written by women are a betrayal to their own gender? The reason why we're talking about this is because Jamila Jamil has once again caused quite a stir. I feel like we've spoken about her a lot recently, but this has come up quite a bit and she's written a sub stack that's going really viral about

And this is the title. I think I'm done with being interviewed by women. I am disgusted. Now this sub stack, which is very long and we will link it all in the show notes for you guys to read if you want to read through the whole thing, but it was published off the back of a profile piece that was released in the Sunday times written by journalist Liz Edwards and

Now, this piece that was written about Jameela Jamil, it was titled, I stood up for Megan long before I met her. And then the subparagraph underneath that says, she conquered youth TV, goes out with pop star James Blake and mixes with comedy and actual royalty in LA. So why does Jameela Jamil describe herself as a failure pervert? I think it's interesting because this, just to give

give you guys the context around this. This profile piece that was published was supposed to be for promotion of a role that she's currently undertaking. She's the new voice of a character in the Disney and Pixar film Elio. And it was pitched to her as though it was going to be written about a thoughtful conversation about grief, misogyny, beauty standards, and advocacy.

Jamila has come out and said that it was far from what it was pitched as and that the article itself that was written about her read like a cheap, bitchy daily mail blog written by a student desperate to get clicks to keep their job. It's pretty scathing, isn't it? Like her response is quite scathing too. What is quite a scathing article? So,

Jamila believes that when interviewed by women, she's often asked to prove herself. So she wrote in her sub stack that of the hundreds of women who have interviewed her over her very long 17 year career, she believes that only three people have written about her fairly, three women.

She goes on to say,

Men do seem at large more interested in actually exploring and challenging my ideas rather than demanding my credibility to have ideas in the first place. I have so many feelings about this. And also, look, I don't want to get hung up just on this because there have been other podcasts that have spoken about this article specifically and like unpacked both the Times article that was written by Liz and also the Substack itself. But there was one thing that stood out to me because when I read both of them in completion, I

My first initial thought was, oh, the Times article isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Yeah, you felt a little like maybe she'd overreacted. That's because I read the substack first, okay? And so I wasn't looking for the – well, I mean, I was looking for the overt criticism, the really overt. But there was one part of that Times article that I do really want to kind of highlight because it was the one bit that I was like, oh, yeah, if this was written about me, I would fucking fire off too. So in the first sort of couple of paragraphs –

Before it gets into any of her advocacy work, which it barely touches on, it goes through and outlines every single medical ailment that Jamila has ever spoken about in her life. Now, she's someone who is well-documented to have chronic illnesses, and she's really open. So she has spoken about

pretty much every chronic illness or I guess physical ailment that she's experienced, but not only physical ailment. She's also spoken about really traumatic and horrible things that have happened to her like rape and sexual assault. This article bundles them all together like they're the same thing. And just to give context to this, this little bit that I'm about to read is only a small portion that follows on from a long, long list of every single health ailment that she's ever experienced. It then says,

She's talked about being raped in her 20s. She suffered a breakdown, had an abortion and tried to take her own life. In 2014, she had breast cancer scare and was treated for cervical cancer in 2016 and 2019. She was injured in a speed-related traffic accident in 2016, this time in America. It sounds as though she's ticked off most health-related issues.

What a demeaning thing to write. Imagine writing about and just trivializing alongside any sort of health complication, a woman who has spoken about not just having an abortion, but also in a different instance about being raped and just

combining it and saying ticked off most health issues what else is there left? It's so disgusting and dismissive just to bundle them together because the implication here the subtle implication maybe it's not so subtle is the fact that maybe she's a bit of a victim and maybe she's a bit of a woe is me and she's literally ticked off every single box but

There are plenty of things that we're going to get into in this article where we were sort of tossing between the three of us, like to and fro. Are we pro Jamila's response and rebuttal or are we sort of pro the original piece and do we think she overreacted? And for me personally, there are a few parts of it where I think, oh, okay.

okay, like maybe this is a bit more of a reaction like the straw that broke the camel's back. The article itself as a whole probably isn't as bad as she felt it was, but I think it's off the back of accumulation of like 17 years. Every single media print about her is pretty horrific and pretty demeaning.

For me, the one thing that I just think is absolutely disgusting is the fact that they bundled something like sexual assault into just a long list of ailments that she's experienced over her life. Yeah, and to be totally fair, if that hadn't been at the start of the article, I think I probably could have passed by most of it and been like, well...

It is just sort of what happens in opinion pieces, like, well, in profile pieces. In profile pieces with celebrities, often the trade-off, I guess, like the currency is I have something that I want to PR, i.e. the fact that I'm the voice of a character in Elio and I have a new podcast coming out.

And in trade-off, I'm going to give you something that is going to get you a headline. And unfortunately, when it comes to media and it comes to entertainment news, that is usually something that is a little bit controversial. If you don't have something controversial, then I hate to say you kind of have to expect

But you do have to expect that they're going to dig up something or they're going to talk about something to make a headline. Because at the end of the day, the entertainment journalists only care about how many clicks on that article and pretty nice stories about all your advocacy work don't get that.

Does that make it okay? Absolutely not. Is it a standard that we should accept? Absolutely not. And it's also a big reason as to why so many celebrities refuse to do profile pieces like this. I also kind of want to cast your mind back. You might remember in December of this year, Ballerina Farm, they also did a piece. It was a profile piece. This was in the London Times. Similar in terms of reach and capacity.

The Nealmans invited a journalist into their home to talk about their way of living and how they were, you know, creating quite an incredible business off the back of what it is that they've done. And the entire article read as though Hannah Nealman was a oppressed trad wife under the rule of her husband. And she came out and said how she felt so incredibly betrayed by having this journalist in her home and the angle in which they chose to take.

But yeah, I guess with this and the questions we wanted to unpack, instead of just making it about Jamila Jamil, it was more around this concept that there are so many female journalists who work in entertainment, who are responsible for creating the narratives and creating the storylines around so many female celebrities. By calling out Liz, the journalist, and saying, you know, this is so unfeminist of you, you're bringing other women down, you never support me, and you know...

People are saying, well, you're just doing the same thing by writing a scathing sub stack that specifically names and attacks this woman. I think more of an interesting conversation is around the tactics the media uses to get you thinking, do you support or not support? Do you like or not like a woman? And one of the posts that Jamila posted was, think about every woman you dislike and don't know exactly why.

It's because of the insidious tactics like this. And I think this is an interesting conversation that maybe we all need to think about. Not one we haven't had before on the podcast, Laura, but about being a little bit more media literate and thinking why is it you might not like a particular woman? I think Meghan Markle, and I don't want to get into depth about it. We've spoken about it before. You all know about it, but I think she's a really prime example of why people

There are so many people around the world that dislike her, but aren't sure why. And it's because of a media pile on. Every headline you read about that woman is negative. Nothing is supportive of her. Nothing is bad. Everything, whether it's subliminal or not, like whether it's straight out scathing, or maybe it is a little bit more reading between the lines and using these different media tactics. I think that's far more interesting that we need to start to ask ourselves, hang on, why, why

is it that I don't like that woman? I think though the problem is, and maybe Megan is not the best example, because I think a lot of people look at her and go, well, she's not doing herself any favours. As much as the media perpetuates the storyline, it's

Then we watch, you know, the, what was the TV show called at home? We even talked about it. With Love. With Love. Don't get me wrong. I loved watching it. I was obsessed. But at the same time, I was like, oh, sweetheart, you're so out of touch. No one's putting flowers on their pancakes when their friends come over because we're all fucking busy. Yeah, she might not.

be the best example. So I do, look, I'm absolutely not saying that I understand it. I think the media has a lot to be responsible for in the way in which they curate and they manage to manipulate people's opinions around celebrities or around different people. But I also think like

As we become more literate, we are able to unpick that ourselves. And I think for anyone who is reading that piece, there's been other articles that have been written since. You can see the parts of that that are written in a way that make you go, ooh, that's a bit, that's a bit spiky and a bit spicy. Like that's not written to be nice.

And I guess when I read an article now, and it's probably because we work in this world and there is a bit more context to it, I kind of asked myself, well, what was the purpose of that piece? Like what was the journalist trying to get out? And usually, I mean, we see a lot in daily mail articles, for example, you might notice like there'll be an article about, let's just use Beck Judd, for example. It'll say something about what she's done currently. And then the next

thing below it, it's not even like congruent. It hadn't even happened this year, but it will be some controversy. That's linked. And the reason why it's linked is because it's encouraging you to click through and read another article about something that she did that probably she never did and it's been inflated anyway. The thing is, though, do I blame the female journalists who are writing these? I

I don't blame them to the extent that Jamila does. And the reason for that is, is because a lot of women who work in entertainment journalism, they are under the guidance and they are under their bosses who are the editors in chief who are telling them, this is the headline, this is the angle, go and write this piece.

And I know that as a woman, I feel like there's this expectation and pressure that we're like, no, you shouldn't stand for that. You should be standing up for all other women. You should be setting the example. But Jameela Jamil being, you know, extremely wealthy, being extremely privileged in the position that she has, I don't think it would be fair of her to expect some 22-year-old that's just been chuffed out of uni. I'm not saying Liz is, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying, you know, the general Daily Mail articles that are written about

who's just come out of uni to stand up to their editor-in-chief and say, I'm not writing that in the name of feminism. Like they're going to lose their jobs. So they're going to lose their jobs in the name of making a stand. Yes, but then the question is how do we change? How do we make a change if we keep saying, oh, well, this is the way it is. I'm not going to stand up for –

women's rights or inequality, I guess I'm going to have to keep writing these scathing articles. There has to be an out. Like, I don't believe that that is the answer. And I don't believe we live in a world where we're saying, oh, well, we're a woman in the public eye. It's to be expected. Like I'm calling bullshit on that. Yes, it gets clicks, but you have control in the way you write something. And what I mean by that is sure. Maybe she has to put the controversies in. Maybe as the public, we're entitled to know the controversies and reread them. That's fine. But for this particular article, it was to go on and promote her new podcast and a new movie. And.

some of her advocacy work. None of that was included until basically the end, like a throw on, like, oh, as an afterthought, by the way, she's also doing this. Like that, it was not the intent of the article, even though it was sold to her. So I completely understand her disdain in this feeling and in this moment and how she must be feeling for it. I also understand what you're saying, Laura, that like there is an expectation for people to get, for journalists to get clicks and they're under pressure. They're under probably chances.

chances are a male boss, a middle-aged white man that is saying you've got to write these scathing articles to get 500 clicks minimum, whatever it is. But I don't believe that as a society we have to sit back and say, well, it's just the way of the land. No, and don't get me wrong. Lay of the land. It's just the way of the land. I've also seen even Australian journalists use that as an excuse to just be horrible people. They go, well, I'm a journalist. It's my job to report on this. And it's like,

Actually, I don't wholeheartedly agree with that. Totally. There are different versions of grey in this. I don't think it's a black and white answer. I think in terms of the question is how does change come and where does change come, the change has to come from top down. I definitely don't think, and look, I'm not saying Liz, whoever wrote this, the woman who's behind this article with Jamila Jamil, she's probably not a good example of it because she's not a junior editor. She's not a junior journalist. She usually writes for like travel and totally not writing celebrity pieces. This seems like it's out of her remit.

But the thing is in Australia, and I think about Daily Mail, a lot of the people who are writing those articles, I don't expect the change to come from them. I expect it to come from top down or at the very least when they are the people that are able to move into editorial roles or into management roles, that then they're enacting the change. And the reason why I say that is because it's an incredibly privileged position to be able to

always take the moral high ground over a paycheck. Not everyone has the opportunity to do that. There are single moms who are journalists. There are people who are fresh out of uni who are just trying to fucking make it. Like, I think that we can't single out individual journalists. It's the whole system that is broken. And also it's us as consumers. We click on those articles. The reason why editors in chief choose the most like catchy headline that means absolutely nothing to the article or they write the

things that are scathing or pointed or toothy or however they want to describe it is simply because we're the ones clicking on them. We're the ones consuming it. We are also part of the problem. I've actually been in this situation and I'm like partially a little bit ashamed to admit it, but I worked for Triple M for like, or the company that owns Triple M for, I think it was like eight years or something. And there was one time in particular that I can think of where I was in a team of five of us and they had an interview with what I considered to be a pretty controversial NRL player and

Nothing proven, nothing like horrendous, but bad enough that I was like, I don't really want to be giving a platform to this guy. And I was not in a position of power within that team. I was probably one of the least in power and I was overruled. You know, like I brought that up with everybody and there I was pushing the buttons, putting this person to air and like it didn't sit well with me, but I also wasn't going to be like, I refuse. I'm going to give up my job because you want to chat to this guy. So like-

to that point I can understand where you're coming from, Lauren. I just think it's not black and white at all. And, you know, like, look, I mean a very – and this is a very insular example of this, which is fucking mild in comparison to the scale on which Jameela Jamil experiences. But, like, I remember –

So when The Bachelor finishes, part of what's embargoed is that when you're the winning couple, there is a photo shoot that happens at the finale, the day after or two days after the finale. It's embargoed and it's sold to Woman's Day. Woman's Day has full exclusive rights over it. You do an interview with a Woman's Day editor or someone over the phone, you don't actually see who they are, and then the articles get written. So

Matt and I had this beautiful photo shoot. It was like at a house in the middle of Richmond and we did our interview and everything. And then after the night of the finale, the next day, the magazine came out and what they used is because they got given the entire magazine.

SD card of photos, not just the photos that were like the selects. They got given all the ones when they were testing for lighting, all the ones when we were told, oh, don't worry, we're just checking the lighting now. So we were just sitting there talking to each other. They used every photo that looked like we hated each other. Every photo that looked like we were disinterested. The entire article was framed to say that I was there trying to hock my jewelry business and Matt was actually more interested in Tara and he was going to break up with me. That was the entire, it was really defamatory. It was

Super hurtful. And at the time, I was not someone who was media literate enough to be able to handle what was front page of Woman's Day magazine calling me a whole heap of names. But you shouldn't have to be media literate to be able to handle that. This is stemming back to the problem. But hear me out.

Two years later, I was at a Women's Day lunch. The irony in that, International Women's Day, sitting there across from a Women's Day journalist. I made the decision that day that I would never do a Women's Day interview again, and I never have. It's one publication I don't enjoy working with, and I'm happy to say that. Anyway, I was sitting there across from this journalist, and she was just my age, young. Well, actually, she was younger than me. She was like 26.

and we got chatting and I was like, oh, Woman's Day. I was like, I've got to give you a wide berth. I was like after that article that was written about me and she was like, I'm really sorry. I wrote that article about you but I want you to know I didn't have a choice. I was told to write it for my editor. I got told what the –

the storyline was and I got made to write it. And she was like, I hated it. I knew it wasn't true, but I didn't have a choice. And it was in that moment that I was like, I wasn't even mad at her because I was like, okay, what would be your alternate? You're going to stand there and say to your boss, actually, you know what? I don't know that Laura girl and I'm going to stand up for her because she deserves better. I was a fucking random chick off reality TV. She didn't care about me. She cared about her job. But once she met me, she felt really bad that she wrote something that just wasn't true. So

I'm not saying that like everyone is allowed the same leniencies. What I'm saying is, is that there is so much gray to this. And I think going so hard after the women journalists and saying only men give me a go and the women don't is not taking into account the complexities of what it is to be a woman working in this industry. And yes, I do think that,

as women, we should be heralding other women and we should be upholding all of the values that we hope to have for ourselves. And like all of the things that we talk about on this podcast are important to us. But I think the world of entertainment journalism is pretty gross and pretty murky as it is. And I think

pinning all of that on women in general actually does less good than what it does to try and rewrite all of this like feminism fighting feminism and that was the major problem with her piece was the fact that she painted all women with one brush that is where I think she lost a lot of people and there are a lot of people in support of her that understand why she's hurt they understand the messaging she's trying to get across and the change she's trying to bring in

But her undoing is by bundling every single person into one box because there are so many incredible women in media. We all know them. Yes, we know the other side as well. Everyone in this room has been on the other side of it. We've experienced it, which is maybe why...

maybe why I felt quite passionate about it. And I was like, yeah, go Jamila because I'd been on that side as well. I've done full interviews before about successors and nothing has been written in it, even though that was sold to me and they have just like trashed me. Oh, Brit, we sat and had a photo shoot once and the article was meant to be about all the successors of the podcast and

And we got interviewed about like, you know, I think we'd hit 50 million downloads at the time. We'd won Listener's Choice at the Podcast Awards three years in a row. And it was meant to be a piece about life on cart. And it was a total character assassination, which was even more humiliating because we sat there and posed for the photos. We did the photos for them and we were like, fuck you. So I think we've got a bit of skin in the game in the Australian landscape. And I think there are a lot of tactics that are used that

mean that when you read an article, you get a sense or a feeling about someone and often that feeling is not positive. And yes, it is really fucking disappointing when those articles are written by other women, but I just don't think it's fair to go after all female journalists. And that's what Jamila did in that sub stack. It really was cutting. And it really is sort of saying that men can be trusted in journalism, but women can't. And I don't subscribe to that. Hmm.

I thought it would be really cool. Britt, you mentioned this yesterday when we were talking about it, to go through some of the different techniques. There were five that we pulled out from this particular article that was written by Liz, kind of to make us a little bit more aware of the tactics that they do use to shape your opinion. And I found these really interesting. So the first one was mentioning controversial or polarizing women.

Meghan Markle was mentioned in the headline of this article. She wasn't relevant whatsoever to the piece. And there's kind of two reasons that they do that. One is for search engine optimization. So that when you're, you know, when Meghan is in there, it will come up in more people's

Literally, when I tried to find it, I just typed in Times, Jameela Jamil, Megan. The article itself has nothing to do with Megan. It's just that she's the most Googled woman and when it comes to written articles, one of the most hated on women, you know? Yeah, and another reason that they mention her is because she's

When you read her name, if you don't like her, you subconsciously transfer that skepticism onto Jamila. Even though the women have nothing to do with each other, they shouldn't be included in the same article. You also kind of associate her with being an equally difficult woman.

And I'm putting that in quotation marks, which is ironic because that's another tool that they use. They can use quotation marks around in this article. They use them around life or death and also around feminism. And that's to kind of imply sarcasm or exaggeration. That's also to make you question it. Totally. It makes you think that it's not real. If you're writing something and you're writing feminism with a double quotation mark, the implication of that is that it's, is it though, question mark,

Feminism. There's also like the selective characterization. And this is where you're described or introduced with, I guess, reductive identifiers. And I don't like to say it, but things like former actress or influencer or controversial figure. And we all know, we all influence in a way that we all know there's nothing wrong with

being an influencer. It is a real job and so many people do it, but there is always this negative connotation attached to it. And they like to like diminish everything she's ever done by saying, Hey, she's, she's just an influencer. I reckon that's one to really keep an eye out for because you see it a lot with people who move through different careers. Like, I mean, I think it's interesting when you see someone who's like a really successful entrepreneur. Let's talk about someone like Steph Clare Smith, for example. Someone just gets it.

All the time. Britt Saunders, these women own multi-million dollar companies. I mean, Kik is worth hundreds of millions of dollars now. The pow houses. And often she's described as influencer Steph Claire Smith instead of entrepreneur Steph Claire Smith. Influencer...

yes, you can say like, you know, yes, it's a real job. It's a real work. Influencer work is real work. But the thing is at the end of the day, people don't have a lot of respect for influencers. And it's a quick way of just instantly demeaning someone, calling someone from their reality TV background. I mean, this is one that we experienced all the time and that's fine, but like,

We're always referred to as bachelor star, blah, blah, blah. It's like, cool. That was seven and a half years ago now. And there's also many other things. Call me mom before you call me a bloody bachelor star. Like that's less offensive. The other one that I think that it's something for us to be quite aware of is this idea, especially with women, it's never, ever used or language that's used around men. And it's the too much trope.

framing women who are in positions of power as being too loud or too sensitive or too extreme, or that they're too controversial. Too dramatic. Yeah. All of those things are just ways in which I think we frame women, outspoken women, women who are really pushing for change, for advocacy, people like Jamila Jamil, who absolutely probably haven't done everything right, but no one has. And what she's trying to say is that by making someone seem as though that they're

a little bit intolerable or quite intolerable and focusing on, you know, the small indiscretions and things that they've done wrong throughout their entire lengthy career, rather than focusing on all the incredible things that are positive that they have brought to a space. All that does is try to position them as though they're a bad person and everything that they've said that is of value is irrelevant.

because of that one indiscretion they did five years ago. And I think we have to be more wise than that when we're actually reading news articles or reading especially profile pieces on people that are extremely biased. If anyone wants to read Jamila's Substack article, All The Sunday Times, or also there's been quite a few spinoff articles that have come off the back of this. The Cut also wrote quite a scathing piece about Jamila. I read the

the Cut article, and I usually love the Cut as a publication, you know, piece. I go to it quite a bit. When I read their article about Jamila's Substack, I was like, oof, and I thought the first one was bad. So like there's quite a few things that surround this conversation. If you want to go and read any of them so that you get a better understanding of what it is that we're talking about, the language that's used to give an impression, we've linked them all in the show notes for you so you can find them easily.

Well, before we get into Suck and Sweet, we just have one very short accidentally unfiltered that I love. Talking about earlier having, saying the wrong things in sex to the wrong person. I accidentally said I love you during sex to the guy I've been seeing for a few months who I definitely did not love. And then I felt weird, had to explain to him afterwards that I didn't actually love him. This only happened last night. I think...

I think this has happened many times. People get caught up in the moment. I love you. And then you want to take it back. Just like, ah, overpowered. No. Also, how awkward you feel in that moment, like when you say I love you and the guy doesn't say it back because he also doesn't love you, but he's fucking you. He's like, oh, fuck, I want to keep going, but I don't love her. Like, this is awkward. Do I just pretend I didn't hear it? You don't say it back. I don't.

I don't think he did. Okay. Here's my question for you. Have you ever said I love you back to someone who you didn't love just because you didn't know how to let them down nicely? No, I said thank you. No, I've always been the one who's like desperate for it. No, I said thank you. You said thank you. Well, yeah. Daylight. I'll never forget it. Daylight. It was daylight outside. He was getting into his car, leaving my house. I'll never forget it because I felt so awkward. And he goes, he's like, I love you. And I was like, thank you. Thank you.

And then I was like, take care. Drive safe. I'll see you again. Never. Because what are you saying that moment? I'm not going to say it back. I remember a guy saying it to me and I was so awkward and that I just said it back because I was like, how do you get out of this? We were like in bed cuddling and he was like, I love you. And I was like, I don't. I do not. I felt forced into that. That was awful. Did you explain that you didn't? No. I then broke up with him like a week later. We won't even

really dating but I had to break up with him. It was horrible. It was the situation. She was like, I love you so much. Literally. It's literally what happened. Anyway. It was just the guy working down at the cafe. He made a great coffee. Let's get into Suckin' Sweet. Britt, what's your suck for the week? I know it's against the rules.

I'm on my honeymoon and I'm married. I'm on my never-ending honeymoon. I'm getting married again. I got married two weeks ago. I don't have a suck. I'm thriving. I am thriving. Could it just be that like you're having to live with a million suitcases around your house? Fucking oh, that's it. You were like, Ben's shoes are so big and it takes everything that he owns is so oversized. So it takes up so much room and you're so used to being on your own that therefore you're now. I live in a two bedroom apartment. It's not big. Ben's, he's just a big...

Like, energy on top of being big. Like, he takes up space. But not only that, his stuff takes up space. We tried to go away. Dude, we tried to go away with the carry-on. Two pairs of his shoes take up the whole carry-on. We can't fit anything in it. So...

Britt's like, I don't have a sock, actually. Actually, take a seat. Sit down. No, I love him. I love his big feet. So that's my sock. And my sweet is that I'm getting married legally. So like, I know that they're against the rules. We've already spoken about them, but I can't, how can I not have that as my sweet? I'm getting married. I mean, you're getting married is everyone's sweet. Like, that's not something that you have to feel sorry about. Um.

I also don't really have a suck. My only suck is that I have pregnancy insomnia, which I've talked about a little bit, but it is really, really hard because it keeps me awake. I will lie in bed at night time, wide awake, thinking about the most like

like I'll be thinking about tax. I'll be thinking about like, what am I going to make for Marley's lunch for tomorrow? Like I'm just thinking about things that are so irrelevant and I can't stop my brain and turn it off because I'm wide awake. And anytime the kids wake up, that just sets me off. And then it takes me about an hour to get back to sleep. So pregnancy insomnia, it sucks. And there's nothing you can do about it. My sweet for the week though, is we went down to Aladala on the weekend, had a really cute weekend with the kids.

And the house is finally getting finished and like everything is coming together. I feel like that's going to be your suite every week. It's a 10%. Anyone who's ever done a renovation, it's like the 10% that just never gets done. So like we're so close to having it all done. And there's just this one little bit that just keeps dragging and it's all those like tiny little annoying stuff. Like it's perfect. We can absolutely go down there. Yeah, like getting toilet paper. The builder doesn't leave any toilet paper for us.

It's so hard. No, so it was beautiful down there. And going down there for the weekend in winter, being able to go to the beach, which normally going to the beach in winter would not be my vibe, but it was really, really sweet and quality time with the kids. It's wholesome. It was very wholesome. Cute, guys. Well, that's us out of here.

here please send in your accidentally unfiltered your ask uncuts we do need some more accidentally unfiltered so make sure they're coming in and don't forget we've got youtube if you want to watch it you can watch the whole episodes it gives definitely a different vibe to watch it than just listening to it and you know the drill tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your friends and share the love because we love love