Ben Schwartz: Human Jack in the Box
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That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling. And so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing. Cash back.

That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. All right, Mr. Schwartz, first of all, the hair is great as always. That's your signature. Can I ask you this? What if you woke up one day and you were losing your hair? I think today's the day we figure it all out.

Hey everybody, it is literally, and it is me, Robbie J. Lowe. No, no, I can't say that because it sounds like I'm doing a J. Lowe bit, which I'm not. I'm Rob Lowe, just plain. I don't need to add anything to make me sound more pretentious. Not that having a letter in your name makes you pretentious. Today, we have the great Ben Schwartz.

So funny. Great guy. So accomplished. This is one of those episodes that could have gone on for six hours because I know you're on your treadmill right now and you only have like 45 minutes of working out. We didn't do six hours, but what we did is great. And it is coming up right now.

Let's face it, your career is predicated on your hair. Mine's on my face. I get it. I don't deny it anymore. Fuck it. I'm owning it. If I shave my head, would I get roles? Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd probably be the end. I probably couldn't even write anymore because they know that I'm writing as someone who has no hair. I wonder. No, wait. I could posit that that would make you, they would think you're a better writer. Oh, wow. By the way, I love that. There was a time when I was really stressed out and in the shower, a lot of my hair would come out.

And it made me very nervous. And I started to mentally be like, all right, well, what happens if I lose my hair? And I was like, all right, I guess I'll cut it really short or I'll blah, blah, blah. But I don't know. But it was scary. It was scary because I put my hands in my hair and I take my hands out and there's like a ton of hair on my hands. What happened? Because that usually doesn't just...

That's just the beginning I hear. I think I was stressed. I think I was very stressed out. And also when my hair gets big, it gets very heavy and it falls off. It like rips out easy. By the way, it's very interesting to talk about that. I might've talked about this in the past with you, but it's like in New York, nobody cared. In LA, hair, even men to men, I've get more compliments from men or talking about hair stuff for men. Hair on actors or people in LA is such a,

a big thing people really and it's worrisome and it's scary for some people but it's also very exciting and like it's so funny how only when i came here did i realize like i didn't never grow out my hair until i came here and i forgot to get a haircut and i auditioned for mitch hurwitz and i go i'm so sorry he go when he told me i got the role i go i will i will cut my hair tomorrow i'm so sorry he goes you absolutely will not you will keep that hair it makes you look like a different character it's amazing so from that moment on i just stopped cutting my hair

And that Mitch Hurwitz arrested development. That's right. It was the show after, by the way, I'm sure we can talk about failed pilots, but it was me, Richard Dreyfuss. What? Yep. He played my dad. Jason Biggs played my brother. Mary Steenburgen played my mom. See, people who wonder about entertainment just need to know that. That level of talent and clearly the network's like, yeah, we don't see it. And Jim Burrows directed it. The gentleman who's directed every multi-camera that's been the biggest hit of all time.

So, folks out there, Jim Burrows is a guy, he's a sitcom director who has a record, I think, of, you know, he's directed every first show of every single classic. If you get Jim Burrows to direct your show, you're on the air, except if you're Ben Schwartz. Yeah, my hair must not have been big enough. How was Richard Dreyfuss? I love him. He was lovely. I had to kiss him. He was my dad, and the episode was about us being too close. Yeah.

And so I had to kiss him many times on the lips. And it was very funny to be like, hey, Jaws, and then kiss. It's like, all right. A lot of memories I had as a kid. You made me cry, Mr. Hollins. And we're kissing. You know who the best was? Mary Steenburgen was just the absolute best. She's a great actress and also the nicest person in the world. And then Ted Danson visits her because they're married. Talk about hair. Could have had a hair conversation with him.

I wonder if that was a thing back in the day where it's like, you know, like right now people will be like, oh, that person had plastic surgery or I could tell that this is different. Their eyes are different or some of that. I wonder if back in the day it was that person's wearing literally a hairpiece and stuff like that. I love Ted Danson, but some of the Cheers episodes in the day, because, you know, the technology has improved so much. Now you cannot tell. By the way, maybe one of the best, if not top five ever television shows.

Actors of all time. Of all time. Think about his track record. Ted Danson never misses. He never misses. And his female counterpart is Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Never misses. Incredible. Never. If they're in the show, it's a hit and going to run for 100 years. Isn't that crazy? And they're great.

What do you have in terms of something that either got stopped before it started or do you have a pilot that didn't go but now would have been looked upon as the biggest pilot of all time? I immediately think of the two...

The two that didn't go that were horrible. And I had Ron Howard on the podcast. He directed it. Ron Howard directed this pilot. And it starred his brother, Clint Howard, as the lead. Love him. And Peter Breck of the Big Valley fame back in the day. Big strapping cowboy actor. And I was the 13-year-old ingenue.

And it was a traveling circus family and stuntmen. They were traveling. They're like carny traveling circus people with animals and also stunt people. I was a young Evel Knievel and I wore spandex. Did you have to do actual motorcycle stuff? Well, they never asked me when I auditioned if I could ride a motorcycle. So I didn't volunteer that. I couldn't even drive a car.

Right, you were a kid. Yeah, I was a kid, and I got to the set, and we had to do the motorcycle scene, and I just remember Ron Howard as a young director being like, you know, problem solving, which is half of directing, and just had some like, you know, crewman sort of wheel me out of the shot. Out of the shot. Anyway, but it was the worst title ever, Thrills and Chills. Oh, you're wrong. It's the best title ever. I know where the thrills were coming from, but where were the chills coming from? The e-e-e.

You're getting pulled away is a chilling. It's giving me the chills thinking about it. But that wasn't even a pilot. That was a pilot presentation. Oh, wow. Which for the uninitiated is when they have so little faith in it that they don't even want the pilot. They want like 15 minutes of it. Then the great directors I had who failed. I'm the jinx. Gary Marshall. Oh, my God. People sometimes are like, who do you want to be directed by? I always want to be directed by Gary Marshall. Gary Marshall is...

Either directed or created on TV. Um, the odd, the, the, I believe the odd couple for sure. Happy days, Laverne, Shirley, Mark and Mindy. I mean, just the King of the seventies. And that was the era I was knocking on the, you know, I was auditioning and then movies, pretty woman and he's incredible, um, on and on and on. But, um,

Oh, wow.

Your name's going to be Tucker to me. The two T's are funny. Two T's together. Funny. My hope is that Gary Marshall would be like your Jewish father on a set. And he's not even Jewish. No. That's the amazing thing. He's Italian. It made no sense.

Oh, that's like disappointing to hear. I know, right? Losing one from the team is a very disappointing thing. I can't help but notice you have typewriters behind you. I'm very impressed. Thank you. Is there another one right directly by the three of them? No, there's a custom Sonic the Hedgehog sneaker behind me. And then these are, we were talking about this before you jumped on the wonderful people that help with your podcast, but I still typewrite letters to people.

And I use these to do it. So I have three. I have two here and I have one over there. That's a beautiful red Valentine typewriter. What are the brand names again? It's been so long. This one's an Underwood. That's right. This one's a Royal. So this is like an old 70-year-old one. This is like, no joke, this is probably 50 pounds, 45 pounds.

So, and this is the first one I ever got. This one, I did a movie and I asked if I could grab it and they said, you could buy it off us. And I was like, oh, so I bought it off them. I bought it off them. And then the other one was a wonderful birthday present. When you, but when you write, write, like when you write scripts and things, do you write the scripts on them? No, they're just like letters. You know what I do? I write it like, um,

I would write it as someone, sometimes I write people, I write letters to people as if it's them from the future writing back or sometimes I'll write like famous people that have passed away. I've done that a lot. Like Franklin Delano Roosevelt has written a bunch of letters to people and like some, you know, so like, and so when you get it, it's so fun because the typewriter and I have paper that makes it look old timey. So it looks like an old fashioned letter from back in the day.

So a lot of times they're bits. I love that. Isn't that fun? And then the goal, the reason why I got it, I was like, how fun would it be to go back and forth, support the post office, but also go back and forth with friends. Literally nobody wrote back. What they do is they text back. This is amazing. I'm not like, this is so cool. Nobody wants to put in the time to actually do it, but I love physical something. I love holding a letter in my hand. I love that you are still doing it without, without anybody reciprocating. How pathetic. I know.

No, it's great. Oh, that's so... Well, just a handwritten letter, which are hard enough, are so valuable. I make my kids do handwritten letters and they're the greatest. It's like people look at them like they're artifacts from a different era. I agree. It's holding something. It's holding a one-of-a-kind something, which I love because I'm looking at the computer all... I write all day. So the idea that I have something and I can put it in a folder and look at it later, nobody else can access it or hack it. I love it. It's so fun.

Do you have a joke folder? Well, you have rejected. I want to talk about rejected jokes from it. So that's your- By the way, I do have, you asked an incredible question, Rob. Wait a second. I'm going to get something.

Can you stall for seven seconds? Yeah, absolutely. We can cut this whole thing out. Watch this. And we've cut out, and we're about to come back, and we are back. Nope, no, we're not. We're going to be back. By the way, have I had too much coffee today? I think I'm very lit up. I couldn't hear what you were saying, but I'm sure it was amazing. Don't worry. It wasn't good. All right, so I have something that I haven't taken down from the...

I have like a ledge with like all fun, like props and books and stuff like that. But so I wrote for Letterman. Oh, look at that. That's a big, that's the biggest binder I've ever seen. So this is every page of this is 10 to 15 jokes. Now wait, are those jokes all that all made it on the air or just everything? I'll say out of all of these and I have them by, so I'll say the first third are Letterman. Then the next are Saturday Night Live.

But this is I wasn't a staff writer because I couldn't get the staff our job so I was freelance so I would have to write the jokes by like 6:30 a.m. Print them out put them in a fax machine fax them to Letterman or SNL and then you only get paid if they get on the air and you would get paid for me it was $75 a joke for Letterman and $100 a joke for Weekend Update and

So that's it. And basically what would happen is I got 21 jokes on Letterman and only two jokes on Weekend Update. But the ones on Letterman, I was working as a page at the time. So I'm inside. So every time he went on stage, I would have no idea if he's gonna use a joke or not. And I was a page watching.

And when he was done, he would go like this, ladies and gentlemen, Paul Schaefer and the CBS orchestra. And then, you know, the monologue was over. There's literally an episode where you can hear me in the background say, fuck, because he didn't use any of my jokes like the 20th straight day. And I got yelled at by my boss being like, you can't, you cannot do that. You cannot yell. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

But yeah, so I have, and I never thought to keep them, but my dad, after I faxed him, I would fax him to my dad because I was like, nobody's seeing these jokes. So the first one started June, 2004. And then the last joke I wrote was November, 2006. Do you remember your first joke that got used?

I don't. Isn't that terrible? But you give me a month and a date, and I'll pick one joke. But by the way, I'm sure some of these are not past the peak. No, no. Yeah. I understand. There's no reason to lower our expectations. Our expectations are really low. Pick a random joke. This is amazing. Pick any month. So pick any month in a year. Give me March. March. March. Any year you want, but I want March. Okay, here we go. March. That's what I want.

Okay, so this is, remember, this is March 2000. Oh my God, what if it's a joke making fun of you? That would be, nothing would make me happy. What were you doing in 2005? You wrote jokes making fun of me? Oh my God, if you were in anything that was in the news that I thought a 75-year-old man would make fun of, because it's Letterman, I would do. What were you doing, and do you remember what you were doing in that year? 2005, I had just left, I probably had had a failed TV show called Dr. Vegas, but if you didn't write a joke on that, then you were not...

You're not paying attention. I was doing The Christmas Blessing, my producers are reminding me, which is a, I'm just going to say as cringy as that sounds, was a follow-up to the biggest Christmas movie ever made at that time called...

The Christmas Shoes. Christmas Jews? No, that would have been good. Directed by Gary Marshall? Well, here's a real cheesy one. Ready? It is so cold outside that Jose Canseco injected his heater with steroids to stay warm. You get what's happening here. Oh, man. Some of them are really funny. Some of them are not great. Come on.

Come on, you're killing me. No one cares what we say. No one listens to this podcast. You can say whatever you want. Oh, here, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger won re-election, giving him his first full term in office since 2003 recall victory. It seems that California believes the longer Schwarzenegger is in power, the safer they will be from robot attacks.

I mean, listen, I'm trying my goddamn best here. It's so great. What if Letterman had used a joke? If Letterman used a joke, I would smile. I would be so excited. I would find out by receiving a check. But what I also found out is back in the day, that's, you know, a story would come out and everybody kind of knows what he's going to make fun of. So anybody else writing could write the same joke.

So I'll get a joke that sounded just like mine, but I wouldn't get paid for it because someone else had it as well. So, but that was like, it was just a matter of trying to sell enough jokes to pay for the landline and the fax machine. And it wasn't like, I didn't make money. It was just, and then I remember I, uh, I was doing it for like six months before I got a joke on and I refused to put it in my like resume that I was a joke over there until I got paid for it.

And then I was like, okay, I'm a freelance writer. I've gotten a joke on and stuff like that. I just love the notion of you and your page outfit. Letterman tells a joke and you just turn to some audience and go, I wrote that. Literally, the person that tells them where to go to the bathroom, but they have to get up and they have to go to the bathroom like this way. Also, I wrote that joke. Get out of here, you psycho. Who are you?

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Was it amazing being a page? Because I hear it's one of the hardest jobs around, being an NBC page. NBC page is different. NBC page I got rejected from. They did not let me be an NBC page. Oh, that's right. It's a different thing. Of course. I'm so sorry.

And I also became the person for inside baseball would steal tickets for police officers or people who wanted to go that could close down the street for us and stuff like that. And I cook them up during the day when they needed it as well.

which was a great fun little thing that now that I don't work there anymore, I'd say, but it was great. It was like helping people out who were helping the show and keeping everybody safe at that time, at that time. And then that was it. And so I talked to people all day. I gave tickets to them. And then you wait on the sides while the show is happening. So I got to watch every single show live in person for a year and a half or two years, however long I was working there. It was heaven. I loved being a page. It was $10 an hour or not. It was either seven change or $10 an hour online.

And I would wake up early, write my jokes, fax them in, go to work, be done with work, go to Upright Citizens Brigade, either take a class or perform a show and come back. And I would barely every night I would barely sleep. And it was one of the most exciting times of my life. It was incredible.

Love that. I'm so envious even hearing it. I mean, it's obviously a struggle, but it's the struggle you want if you want to be in this business and you want to be funny. Yeah, it was. I mean, I never I worked so hard because I was like, I'm going to if I'm going to fail, I want to at least feel like I gave it a shot. And then when I started getting a little success and it turns into, oh, my God, I don't want to screw this up. I just work so hard to get here. Let's see if I can keep going. Do you remember there's there's something funny that happens? It doesn't happen as often now.

But is there anything that you used to do back in the day? I feel like back in the day when you got roles, it would be like life-changing. But if you started when you were 13, maybe it's a different feeling, but it's like,

life-changing and like I used to like jump up and down and cheer and I can't believe I got the role and then as you get a little older you know it becomes you know you've done a lot of work now and so it's not as as a joyous unless it's a big one but do you remember any celebration that you had or do you remember that feeling or oh dude I remember the first time I I was gonna be on television ever was for the I think it was the very first commercial ever made specifically for the Super Bowl

And it was for Coke, Coca-Cola. And I was just 13. And I was like a featured ensemble member. And I remember having an 8mm film camera pointed at the television watching the entire Super Bowl. Oh, I love it! Ready to film it when it came on. And then you just are like, whatever. You get jaded. You just do. But that first time you...

You show up on TV, it's a big deal. There's no question about it. Huge deal. I remember you would tell friends to watch like something that you're doing. You'd tell friends like, oh my God, I'm going to be on blank. I'm going to be, I have like a small role on blank and then, or I'm in this movie and then the movie comes out and you're like cut out of it or you like have one sentence and it's so embarrassing or like,

With commercials at the beginning, I did a bunch of commercials at the beginning. Like I had a Super Bowl commercial for Subway and it would have paid for my rent for half a year. It would have been huge. And they cut it. I was really good at getting commercials and then nobody ever airing them. Oh, so you weren't cut out of the commercials. No, they would just not air the commercial. They would spend a million or millions of dollars making it and then just never air it. Because on the level of pride swallowing sieges that show businesses...

made of getting cut out of a commercial that's gonna be tough might be that that might be something that you can't recover from do you ever get one one time i got uh the director himself jj abrams called me when i got a tv show that he was directing and

And it was such a fun, he called me personally and I'm like, I'm very close to them now. I love him. Is this undercovers? Yes, it was undercovers. God, someone is good at research for you, Rob. I know what I'm doing. But he called me and I, this is before I was friends with him. And first of all, I couldn't believe that JJ Amos had my telephone number. And then, and then he's like, he asked a couple of questions and then he's like, all right, do you want to do this? And I said, what do you mean? Like be in the show?

He goes, yeah. And I go, yes, this is a man. And like, it was so exciting that the person actually called me to give me the role. Cause usually you hear it from, you know, like they say, okay, then they give it to their casting director and the casting director gives it to the agent. The agent gives it to you. But I was getting it from the person that would be directing me that I look up to so much. And that was like, I, that was so exciting for me to get that phone call at that time.

Oh, no kidding. And like you said, from somebody as great as J.J. Abrams. He's the best. Yes. Tell me about Sonic the Hedgehog. Did you ever play video games? Your kids must have played Sonic. Yeah, I'm of that generation that just missed it. But obviously, I remember the first time I ever heard of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Some friends came up and their kids, that's all they would talk about. And that's all they would do. And this is making me sound like I'm an old man and their kids came up and then boy, those kids, they just couldn't get enough of Sonic the Hedgehog. And I didn't know what it was. But I mean, what that was, I mean, is that's, that's like on the Mount Rushmore of, you know, icons and games. It's crazy. It's crazy. And also if we're, we're in this fun Hollywood story world, I'll give you a fun one for that one is that I was having a meeting with Tim Miller who directed the original Deadpool. Who's lovely. And,

And we were talking about me acting in something else for him, but it just wasn't working out. I couldn't get the dates working. And he said, you know, we're doing Sonic. We're trying to sell Sonic the Hedgehog. And he introduced me to Jeff Fowler, who's the director of Sonic, who is next to him in the cubicles where they work. It's an open whatever. And I said, oh, my God, I do so much voiceover. If you ever need me, I love video games. I love Sonic. And then they called me.

Two weeks later, and they said, would you do us a favor? It's for no money. And it doesn't mean you have the role. It's just we need to make a five-minute test footage to sell the movie to Paramount or anybody who would want to buy it. Would you do it? But it doesn't mean you're the guy. And then this is a lesson that I kind of always do, which is like, I have no problem putting in the work, even if there's no money or stuff like that, if it's something I really like. So I said, yes, I did it.

Then they sold it to Paramount. And then I think Paramount went through the process of trying to go after very famous people. And I don't think they ever liked, like they loved what I did in that test and they would compare it. And I'm sure there's some people that were too expensive or whatever, because the movie wasn't a huge budget movie at the time. And they just kept coming back to me and they made me wait months, maybe a year to

And finally, the director's like, it's going to be you. You're just, you're going to be Sonic. And it was because if I didn't do that thing for free in a million years, I never would have gotten a chance to be Sonic.

But I did it and my voice was there for the test and that's where everybody bought it from. And I'm sure they did their process of testing out other people and they just came back to me like he should just do it. And that's how I got it, which is one of the biggest roles, you know, iconic ones I've ever had. When you said you're going to be Sonic, I literally had like goosebumps. I know exactly. I just got out of a podcast, the Sklar Brothers podcast, and I was in Burbank and I was walking down the street.

And Jeff called me. And that was when I did. Do you remember in ER, the title? Maybe you were in ER. But were you in ER?

I never was. God, I can't believe you had to think that long. There's a segment of the opening where one of the doctors goes on one knee and goes like that. He does a fist pump. I did that exact thing on the street when he told me the news. I was like, yes! It was so exciting. Every now and then I get those moments where I saw the television show recently and when they got off the phone, I was like, it's exciting. I still have those moments when it's something big and exciting. I still have those moments and Sonic was one of them.

Well, and it's a great lesson for anybody out there. I mean, you just articulated it very well. I don't mean to belabor the point, but just say yes. Don't fucking think about it. Just go do it. And you never know where, by the way, there's a version of that where you don't get Sonic. Most of the versions of that are that. Yeah. And yet, but you do get something else that somebody who heard it, I mean, you just don't know who's listening or watching. You never know.

There's a different animated movie where I did it for something else that

And they loved me in it, but they changed the character a little bit and they didn't use me. So they went with somebody else and the movie ended up being like a big success. So it's the exact opposite of that, but it wasn't bad. They were so thankful and they loved it. And even it's like the thing that I learned also is like, you get to have an experience with like a cool director or cool like production and you meet people and you know, like, it's like you learn, you get better. And so even if it was just that a bunch of people at Paramount heard my voice and knew that I was a good voice actor, that's not going to hurt me in the future. You know what I mean?

what was your thought process as you created Sonic the Hedgehog? Yeah.

Like what would a hedgehog sound like? Or was there, there were probably clues from the video game, right? Yeah, there were like old, you know, it's funny. I really didn't listen to, I didn't watch the cartoons and stuff like that. So I didn't ever really hear what Sonic sounded like. Maybe a clip or two on YouTube, but I wanted to kind of do it myself. And the way I did it was I read the script and he's basically just an excited kid. So in my head, I was like, oh, he'll just be like an excited kid that's so into everything. And he talks really fast and,

Cause he is, he runs really fast. And then I just found the off of the words. I was like, Oh, okay. This is what he is. He's an excited kid and he's been lonely for a long time. And he has finally these people to talk to. And that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to moat all that. And I'm going to talk really fast and really energetic.

And I think kids would like it. And also, I think just like it would help the animators bring the scenes to life, which is half the fun of doing animation. Let me ask you this. When they redesigned Sonic, did that affect how you performed him? So it didn't because when I was recording all my lines, I didn't get to see what Sonic was going to look like. And it wasn't until we got to the first trailer was when they got their first final renderings of what they were thinking about.

And so when I watched the trailer, it was the first time that I was like, oh, I think maybe...

I agreed with... I think that the notes that the audience gave were very smart. What were the... I remember it was a thing, but what were people's problems? The things they talked about, and I just made... I presented the Video Game Awards, which I'm a huge video game nerd, so it was very exciting, and I made a joke about it, but about his teeth and about his human muscles in his body, which when I saw it, it's...

In my head, that wasn't exactly what I thought it was going to look like. But I'm very happy with where it ended up. And I think the audience actually helped because I had some concerns and said them. And then they were megaphoned by all the fans. And then all of a sudden...

we had a property that everybody had looked at and really, really cared about. It showed us how much people cared about Sonic. So like, oh my God, this has a shot. And so Paramount was awesome and took the time because it costs a lot of money to change stuff. And they took the time to change it and make it the best they could do. And it was great. And now if you saw the trailer for the second one, it's like, everybody looks awesome. The note has been taken and

Tyson Hess is a great guy, came on board and helped with the Sonic Mania stuff and does a bunch of Sonic stuff. And so the second one is so good. I'm so excited for people to see it. It's huge. The movie is epic and enormous. And I finished my job every now and then they'll bring me in for a little cleanup thing. But yes, so I didn't have to change anything for the first one because in my head, he kind of looked like how he ended up.

And I only saw him for the trailer. And when I saw him for the trailer, I chatted and shared similar aspects of what the audience was saying. The audience is never wrong, kid. What's a voiceover that you do that we might not be aware of? I play Leonardo in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You know that cartoon? Ooh, I love that. I play Dewey Duck on DuckTales. Get out. Yeah. And then Sonic's a big one.

And then I do like little roles on anybody who wants me to do like a little fun guest star. I've done like, I think I've done like 400 or 300 episodes of animated shows. Jesus. Yeah. But it's funny because some people for Sonic think that's the only thing I've done. Right. So it's hard to be like, oh no, I've been doing this for like a decade or two decades. Your mailbox must be full of those crazy residual checks for episodes.

By the way, now that it's all streaming, there are no residuals. It's ruined how you make money in voiceover. Oh, really? Yeah, if you do like Netflix or you do anything that's streaming, there are no residuals because there's no like commercials and playback. So it's like, I think it's really going to hurt the voiceover industry a lot.

because you don't really get paid a lot to do the actual recordings. The hope is that they play DuckTales a thousand times, then you start getting a little bit of money. Right. So you do it, or I do it, just because I love doing it, and then you hope that you get other things that pay you a little bit better. Wow, that's amazing. I enjoyed, the only thing I really did voiceover-wise, like that,

I do a lot of documentaries and I love that. Oh, you have a great doc voice. And it's super interesting that people, a very specific audience comes up to me and goes, I heard you talking about the siege of Saipan in the Pacific Theater in World War II. Because I'm really into like Saipan, January 1942. The Japanese will not surrender.

Can I ask you a Tommy Boy question? Yeah. What was Farley like? I'm going to ask you a series of old school comedy questions that I always wanted answers for, if that's okay. Yeah, yeah. What was Farley like in person? And then how were they together? How was Spade and Farley like together? Okay, Spade and Farley together were like an old married couple. Like in bickering? In bickering and like jealousy more than anything. Like they were super jealous of...

of who got to be in the jacuzzi with me. Like that was a big, they fought over that one night. They were like, I was in the jacuzzi with Rob last night. Fuck you, man. I know you were. Why didn't you call me? Well, because we didn't, like, I remember they fought over that. I saw them fight over a sandwich. And they just, you know, but they loved each other. They were Laurel and Hardy. They're incredible. And Farley's book is great. I read Farley's book. That's amazing. And then can you compare that

to Wayne's world where it's another twosome of Myers and Dana Carvey. I will do that, but I have to take quickly tell you my Farley story. My, my, my actually, please, I can't wait. This is, I have this in my one man show and it always, people always love this. This is like, Oh, I can't wait. This is great. Farley, you know, as you know, was, um, um, a man of many appetites and, uh,

He loved steak. So I took him, I never forget, I took Farley and Spade, we're making Tommy Boy in Toronto, to I think Barbarian's Steakhouse in Toronto. Old school, old school. Farley ordered two bone-in porterhouse steaks, two. Ate both of them. And on every single bite, every bite, he put a cube in.

of butter and finally i was like what are you doing and i'll never forget him looking up at me getting holding up in his fork the steak with the butter on the top of it it needs a hat oh my god it needs a hat that's my guy he's not wrong no he was incredible he also came from improv he came from improv olympic so for me i as someone who came from improv i'm always like in love with

like Amy and one of the reasons why I started doing upright citizens brigade because Amy started it and she was on SNL and she's one of the funniest people I've ever seen so it's like I don't want to try that um all right and then what was the what was the process of because I heard it's a little bit different but what was the process with Mike Myers and Dana Carvey um

They were a little bit like the Beatles, like Lennon and McCartney. And maybe I'm getting that just because Mike's family's from Liverpool and he celebrates that part of himself. Maybe that's where it's coming from. But in that, they're both geniuses on their own volition. And if you haven't, go Google Dana's chopping broccoli song. I had it on a VHS tape that I taped off the TV. I loved that bit.

That bit is beyond funny. And Dana is one of those people where, like, when I was on SNL, you know, and I got to do it with three different casts, all, I think, great. But Dana, when you look in his eye, he has literally the eye of the tiger. Like, he has an eye that he will fucking eat you alive.

Like Maggie Smith has the eye of the tiger that way, but in a different way where like you're looking faced into another performer's eyes on stage or live or whatever it is. And they're like, like, I guess like Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, where they will, they're going to fucking eat you alive. Not in a bad way, but like they're a tiger. So Dana has that. Um, Martin Short has that.

And, and then Mike, who I just, Mike and I did a Dr. Evil Superbowl commercial this year. And, and, you know, Mike is, Mike has the, Mike's thing is he has the ability to synthesize the zeitgeist in a way of giving people what they don't even know that they want yet. So I never forget him pitching Austin Powers and it's like,

Or Wayne's World. You pitch those things before you know what they are and you're like, really? Yeah, both are like, no way. It's suburban Toronto kids who play street hockey in the street and they have a cable access basement TV show. And you're like, well, that sounds awful. Or it's a 60s guy who dresses crazy. And like, anybody is like, what are those things? And then they work huge. He's just a true visionary. That's like Jim Carrey. If you heard the pitch for Ace Ventura,

You'd be like, "Oh, I guess, but it's just 'cause he's so funny that movie is hilarious." I auditioned for Ace Ventura, Pet Detective. Which role? Ace Ventura, Pet Detective. Are you serious? 'Cause that script was around, it was a famous script. That script was around. It was around and very well known. Unbelievable.

I want to know about rejected jokes. So this is what happened. So I was writing all these jokes and I learned that nobody would see them. I would put in all this work and nobody would see any of the jokes. So I found out that Letterman owned my jokes for three months after I hand them in. They can use them anytime between then and three months and they can't anymore. So I said, you know what? I'm going to... Who makes that rule? It was a contract I signed when I said I was going to be a freelance writer.

Okay. Oh, weekend update. Didn't have that at all. I could post tomorrow if one didn't get on the air. Cause you know, they do weekly show and it doesn't matter. Right. But there's a lot of evergreen jokes out, right? For Letterman. It's so cold outside. It's so hot outside that it's so cold outside that I mean, hundreds and hundreds, I must've written. So, because you know, that's what he does. He likes sometimes just like, God, it's so cold outside that blank, you know, squirrel is whatever freezing his nuts or whatever it is. So, um, so, uh,

I was like, I hate that these are just going to waste. And I was like, I'm going to make a website because also I was doing UCB. I wasn't really standing out. I was doing commercials and voiceover commercials, but I wasn't really. So I was like, I want a way for people in California to see me in New York. This is in 2004. And so I made a website where I would videotape myself doing the jokes that got rejected and

and I would do three of the worst ones in front of no audience and they would fail and then that would be the video. And then I got celebrities to come join me on stage or people I could just try to get who might have been on TV once or twice.

And they would read one of my jokes as well. So then I would get people coming. And then I did short films. And my first short film I ever did was called Cheating. And it got 30 million views. It was huge. But someone had stolen it and taken rejectedjokes.com off of the video by editing it off.

So nobody was going to my website. He took it and he made, this was back in the day where if you uploaded a video, you can get paid per view. So he got paid thousands of dollars for my video. Um, and I couldn't do anything about it because I was like a little kid and

But that's how I started. So I started making these short films, writing them, getting this great person to direct and build Buckendorf, and then started doing more. And then Turner started paying me to do short films. Then I wrote for Robot Chicken. And then I was acting a little bit. And then I came out here. And that's when I got Undercovers. Then Parks happened when you and I kind of came at the same time. And Parks was...

For me, it was a very big deal because it kind of put me on the Internet. I was people knew who I was for my short films, but on television, it wasn't as easy for me to point to myself where I exist on television. And all of a sudden I made a character that was kind of unique enough that people would remember him. So that was a big deal for me to be like, oh, I've done this. And people would kind of know that character, which I think, as you know, once you have something like that, it's easier to start stepping up a little bit more. But it took years and years before I got anything like that.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. It is time to talk about John Raphael. Okay. I mean, it's the kind of thing you save. You know, you can't just start an interview

Talking about John Raffaello. It's too much. You just can't do that. It's too much. You run out of gas in five minutes. It's too much. I think you're the only person who came through Parks and Rec, and that includes Bill Murray and a lot of great people. Fred Armisen, so many people came through Parks and Rec that I asked to do a video for my kids. That's right. And you were gracious enough to do it. My kids are huge John Raffaello fans.

and you did a birthday video. I remember I had you pop up from below the frame. I was dressed like him, I'm sure. We must have been on set. Yeah, it was on set, and you were in full John Rolfio thing, and you had just done a thing where you had popped up in the scene that we did together, and I thought it was so ridiculously amazing. Like, in what world of a doc... The Predicate of Parks and Recreation, it's a documentary being made about the Parks and Rec Department that you figure out a way to pop up in the frame just made me a

Also that I just appear, Mike Schur said, I think it's really funny that you just appear. Nobody, how did you even get there? How'd you get behind the couch and nobody saw you? He goes, I love that. I was like, that's great. Cause I know the exact moment you're talking about. It's like, cause it was you and Nick. I had very few scenes with you, maybe two, two or three scenes with you. Yeah, exactly. Very few. So it's like, so I remember that one where he made me start crouching. You guys would have a scene with each other and I was in between you and I was crouching under the couch.

for like, you know, a 30 second scene and then I would pop up and he's like, how fucking funny is it that he just appears? How is that possible? There's no way. You just appear. It's a human jack-in-the-box. That's a great line. That's right. And my favorite was

There's never a moment where you go, is it too much? No, actually there needs to be more like with the hair more with the energy more. There's no too much is never too much with him. Cause it's like, you don't get me for too long. I think Mike said that someone had said like, uh, when things were going very well in parks, even though every year I feel like they're like, we're going to get canceled. There was never a year where we didn't think we were going to get canceled. I don't think.

That's right. But John Ralphio was starting, people started to like his character and they said, what about a spinoff with him in Mona Lisa? And Mike said, you don't want, you don't want 30 minutes of John Ralphio. You may think you want 30 minutes of John Ralphio, but it's just too much. It's too much. That's the kind of brilliant comedic mind discipline that I don't have. Cause I'd be like, yeah, I do. Yeah. Just eat candy. That's like Farley steak, butter and steak every bite.

Yeah, you don't need a hat. A jack in the box with a hat on seems like a lot. Doesn't it? It's a hat on a hat, as they say. I will say there is a point when Undercovers got canceled and it was before I did a show called House of Lies, which is with Cheeto and Kristen Bell and Josh Lawson. And I was like, I wonder if Parks will have me full time. I was like, because there's a piece where I had like, there was like four months between those gigs that Parks could have probably picked me up.

And I was like, oh my God, I wonder. And then, um, then nothing happened. And I was like, oh, I guess it makes sense. Like, because if I'm regular, then it's like, it almost lessens the, the, the joy and the magic and the energy. If you have somebody that's that on 10 all the time, um,

Probably gets in the way of everybody else's stuff. But if you put him in there to play everybody else's game and for him to be the crazy person, it works pretty well. I mean, the only thing I can conflate it to is I played a character named Eddie Nero on Californication. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And it's the same. And again, it was like as over the top as I could possibly be. They let me do it and it was fun. And you don't want to see a lot of the character. You just, but you do want to wait for the character and you want to be like, is, you know, and you don't, and you don't want to be in the main credits. How about that? Like if you're on the show,

All the time. You're in the main credits, so we know we're going to get John Ralphio. Oh, that's interesting. Like, sometimes people don't know, and then all of a sudden, it pops up. I think also the big thing that I try to do is I try to make you... I always wanted him to look like he was trying his best. So even when he's an absolute idiot, he thinks he's nailing it. And I think so you kind of care about him a little bit, that like when he fails...

Amy used to say that it's like when a puppy pees on the floor, you're like, oh, John Ralphio. Like, you can't get too mad. Yes. So that's like, anytime I try to do characters, I try to have you care about them enough where when I do something terrible, you let me get away with it every now and then. Amy Poehler is just, you know, obviously a genius. The best. And one of the great people who ever lived and just...

We all love her. Anybody who's ever come into contact with Amy loves Amy so much. And that's the reason the show really has the staying power that it does. And by the way, if you're listening and you like the Perks and Rec part of this show, don't forget, shameless self-plug, Perks and Recollection is our podcast. I did an episode of that with you, Rob. And you were great. Your episode you did is...

Flipping fantastic. And the show's been people are loving it. It's really doing great. I love talking about it. But Amy, I was just watching her and Tina hosting the Golden Globes again on YouTube.

That's the most joy. It is. They're incredible. And people just, they're just funny and fearless. They really are. She was. So I didn't have any money when I was in New York. And so I had to intern. So I get free classes at UCB. So my internship was on Sunday nights, which is the night that Amy performed every single week. So it was a show called Ask Kat.

in New York on Chelsea. And so every single week I did the garbage, I did the recycling, sometimes I bartended, and I would watch her perform two shows every Sunday. And it was the most, it was just unbelievable. And that's everybody in that time, it was like...

It was Ian Roberts and Matt Besser, Matt Walsh, Amy, Rachel Dratch played a lot. Tina would come. And then it was like Paul Shearer and Jack McBrayer. I don't know if you know Jack. He's brilliant. And it was just like all these people that I looked up to at the time. And I remember finding out that they don't get paid for shows because

Cause I was like, Oh my God, you guys are like the best there ever was. And also I remember there was a day where Jack McBrayer as a joke, the audience brought Jack canned goods because there was a bit last week about canned goods. And so I was the intern. So I brought him the thing and I go, this is so funny. I go, what would you like me to do with them? He goes, what are you talking about? I'm taking them home. I fucking need food. I was like, Oh my God. Right. Of course. Because in my head I was like not making any money, but you think because they're so funny and they're on this big stage every week, um,

But Jack was just like doing Conan O'Brien and it was before he got 30 Rock and then he got 30 Rock and you know what I mean? Well-deserved. And I remember that being a big moment for me being like, God, these guys who I think are the funniest in the universe, you know, they're struggling and pushing hard just like me too. Particularly today where fame can come at you much easier because there's so many ways to get famous and success and whatever is like, you got to want to do something

this for free. Or else why are you doing it? There's so much misery in it. It is. And it sounds so stupid. You know, if you've been blessed enough to have had a, have a long career to be taught, they go, it's easy for you to say, but the truth of it is it is, this is exactly what it is. It's like those people you're looking up to them as the biggest and the worst. And they're having to live on canned goods given to them from the audience. Like if you're not willing to do that,

and be happy, then you really should do a different job. There was someone who once said that there's a group of human beings now that instead of really wanting to be actors or be comedians, that they just want to be famous. And they think that this is the way they can become famous. And I'm always like, if you're chasing fame, I don't,

I just, there's, it's just so much failure and so much doing shit all day and grinding. And so it's like, you really gotta love it. You have to love it so much that you're willing to sacrifice fun things for it and write all day and don't sleep for two weekends. And, you know, and you sometimes, even when you're filming, you're filming all night shoots and you're in a weird fucking thing where you're bruised. You have to be up for 12 more hours to get those, you know, it's like,

We have a very, compared to other jobs, we have a very easy job, but it's like, you just gotta, you gotta love it so much that you're willing to sacrifice it. And then these triumphs that we have, we get to do that ER fist pump. And then the bad part about it is that when you fail or you don't get a role, it hurts. Like it personally hurts because we, you have to be good at kind of separating your self-worth from the business, I think, or else you're on a roller coaster because it's not always going to be up. You know what I mean?

Well, and the other thing that I'll add is, is you have to want it and love it. But on the other hand, it's like it's people who love eating and food. They love food and they know all about food and they they're experts of food. But that doesn't mean they should run a restaurant. Oh, that's interesting. Do you know what I mean? That's the other part of it. That's like and you and you run up and you see those people. They want it. They love it. They do it for free and they'll grind. But doesn't mean that they have it.

It's also, I think... I actually liked it a lot. It's also... I met people that are unbelievably funny, funnier than me, and the work ethic just wasn't there. They weren't able to put in the days of writing, and they get lazy quicker. Especially in UCB, there's people funnier than me, way funnier than me, of course, many. But you'll see that sometimes you need to want it hard enough to work your ass off for it. Yep. And that's it. I think the...

The famous point guard Mark Jackson from the New York Knicks once said, the harder you work, the luckier you get. I'm sure he got that from Charles Barkley, the greatest Philadelphia 76er. And I will leave you with this. And people always complain that I talk too much about myself on the show. But fuck it. It is my show. The show is your show. And, you know, it is. And I'm a huge narcissist and everybody knows. But I am a benevolent narcissist. Oh, well done.

That's Rashida Jones says. Beautiful. Mark Jackson, a question for you. And I've already blown it because I've prefaced it with being about me. Who do you think was the coach that coached Mark Jackson in a game where he led the offense?

to an NBA record 237 point explosion. 237 point explosion. Who do you think coach was? I mean, it has to be Rob Lowe, but what movie could that possibly have been? No, it wasn't a movie. It was Magic Johnson always historically had this amazing charity game for his charity in LA. And he got the best of the best. And in his rookie year, Mark was our point guard.

But he had Jordan and Magic. On the same team? Same team. First time they ever played together. 237 points and lost. To who? Who was on the other team? Arsenio Hall. You can now know exactly what era this was. Coached Clyde Drexler.

Clyde Drexel hit a turnaround falling out of bounds three-pointer to beat us. He's so... His game is so beautiful and graceful. We had... Carl Malone was... This is insane. So I'm sitting on... Jordan...

and there was one moment where Jordan and magic were not in the game very quick. Cause obviously you want to keep them in the game. And, uh, um, Carl Malone ran by on the wing, like ran bias. And you could feel like you want a truck goes by, you feel the breeze and the trash flies around. It was like that. And they turned to each other and go, would you take charge from that man? And they're like, fuck no.

It was really funny to watch them. Well, Ben Schwartz, we could talk all day. This is very easy and gentle. Just leaving this, what's next for you? Okay. Very exciting for me. One is a limited series I did for Apple called

That was created by Lord and Miller and Chris Miller directed all the episodes. And I am a huge fan of theirs for my whole life. And it's called the after party and it's a comedic murder mystery, but it's a murder mystery. The bones are dramatic. And then there's just a lot of comedians in it. It's a Tiffany Haddish, Sam Richardson, Ike Bernholtz, me, Alana Glazer, Dave Franco, Zoe Chow.

John Early. It's all very, very funny people. Amazing. And it's a whodunit and it's really exciting because every, there's a murder and then every episode one of the people explains what happens and in accordance to what that person's personality is, their remembrance of it is shot in a different genre of film. So Ike plays like a

Yeah.

And then Jimmy O. Yang is in there and Tawny Newsome and Diana Silvers. Greg Daniels created it with Steve. Greg, who did Parks and Rec. Well, next time you're on, I want to hear more John Malkovich. I want to hear some John Malkovich stories. Dude, I love him. I...

I literally watched Con Air once and said, hey, John, I just watched Con Air. Do you mind if I FaceTime you? Of course, Ben, whatever you want. And then we talked for 45 minutes about Con Air. It was amazing. I have so many great John Malkovich stories, and they're all just heaven. Dude, I saw him in Burn This on Broadway. Oh, I heard. He's incredible in that. It was...

Oh, that's one thing I regret. I never saw Hoffman on stage. I was really upset. I missed that, but I haven't, I didn't get to see John on stage either. I want to see him on stage. I heard it's incredible. Ask him to do the opening for you. Oh, I can't wait. Oh, we'll have a whole episode on John Malkovich. It'll be great. Yeah. John Malkovich. Um, all right, Ben Schwartz, Rob. I, I, it's so fun to talk to you, man. Uh, this is so fun. And, um, I'm happy that you're the king of podcasts. If you do it, you change. Yeah.

I'm scrapping away. This is great. Thank you. How great is he? Just a wonderful person. And I'm so grateful that I got to work with him on Perks. And the John Ralphio, the Letterman stuff, being a page, writing jokes, there was a lot here. That man just delivered a lot of good podcast entertainment. And he took me along for the ride. And I always like that. And now it is time to check the lowdown line.

Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey, Rob. This is Misty from Louisville, Kentucky. I love the podcast. The conversations you have are usually much more interesting than segmented TV talk shows. I'm a longtime fan. As a young girl of the 80s, I had your Teen Beat posters on my wall, and I've watched the West Wing series an embarrassing number of times. Over the last couple of years, I've introduced my daughter, Savannah, who recently turned 13, to your work as well as many of my friends.

Bye, Ralph.

Bye, Rob. Hey, Misty. Thanks for watching Lone Star. I'm having a great time doing it, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. Also glad you're an Outsiders fan. Stay gold. Not stay golden. As you know, nobody ever said that. That phrase is not in the movie. Stay golden is not a thing.

Stay gold is, um, Ralphie, Ralphie Macchio. I love him so much. He was always one of my favorite, um, people on, in the, in the movie, uh, comedy central, uh, roasted me, um, years ago. And, and I, Ralph was one of the people that I wanted to have on my day as, and he showed up for me and was super, super funny. And we are trying to get him on the podcast. Um, we just haven't been able to make the dates work.

But we have a lot to go over when we do. So stay tuned and thanks for listening. Do not forget to download the series in its entirety. I promise you every episode is going to be good. Give us a rating. I'll see you next week on Literally With Me.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile. Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our researcher is Alyssa Grahl. Our talent bookers are Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

And music is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply.

Meet the next generation of podcast stars with SiriusXM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with SiriusXM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.