Ice-T: That's Biting
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That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling, and so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing, cash back.

That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Hey, I'm so glad to see you. I'm glad you're here. Rob Lowe, man. Come on, man. You're a legend.

Hey, it's Rob Loeb, everybody. It's literally. Do I sound serious? Because I am. We've done 100 plus episodes of this show. This interview might be, and I know I've said it before, but I've been lucky. We've done a lot of really great interviews. We have. This one, though, bro, sis, sit the fuck down. By the way, I said that word because you're going to hear a lot of it. If that's an issue for you, and I know it is for some people, I'm going to say it.

I don't know what to say, but you don't tell Ice-T how to talk. He is the man. And without further ado, the iconic, legendary Ice-T. I totally respect all the work you've done in your life, man. I'm a real fan, so I'm happy. I was like, I'm on my vacation and they're like, yo, we're going to do a podcast. I'm like, eh. They said Rob Lowe. I'm like, what?

Let's go. I love that. And I love you wearing a red L.A. Dodger hat. I'm a big Dodger fan. I represent. I love the red, though. That's very cool. I got to get one of those. Well, you know what? Hip hop was the reason they started making different color baseball caps because they realized that we didn't care what team it was. We're matching colors.

We don't care. So we have to be color coordinated. You understand what I'm saying? That's right. So I might – we got some yellow on. I might need a yellow Yankees hat or a yellow L.A. hat. So, you know, the sports companies got on top of that. Now you can get them in every color. You know what I'm saying? All black, all white to go with –

Your fashion. And you were always, you were like, talk about OG. You were the OG of matching the colors. Well, I had to because, you know, in LA, the gang situation is dead serious. People that aren't from LA and don't have any understanding about it don't understand it, but

Yeah, it was when I was growing up, you could really get hurt, you know, and instead of just being it, I never was in a gang. But I come from Crenshaw High School, which is rolling 60s hood. And to join that gang, you immediately turn the whole rest of the city into your enemy. So I was smart enough to say, you know what, I'm gonna put the whole West Coast on my back. I'm gonna represent the West Coast.

No particular gang. So in some of my photo shoots, I would wear red. Some of them I would wear black. Some of them I would wear blue. But I could do that because I wasn't in the gang. So it was a smart move, a career decision. Yeah, career and life decision. Absolutely. But how did you pull that off? Particularly, you were slightly ahead. You were there at the very, very beginning. But we all know the stories of what was going on with some of the other artists. And the pressure was huge.

Serious. So how do you think you navigated when other guys didn't? Well, no one really wore colors prior to 92.

In 92, there was a gang truce in Los Angeles between imperial courts, what they call PJ Watts and the bounty hunters, and that kind of spread across Los Angeles. And then after that, you saw Snoop wearing blue. You saw different people wearing blue. But up to that point, it wasn't safe. And nobody was really doing it. If you go pre-92, you won't see colors.

So everybody was kind of neutral. We wore black a lot. We used to wear the Padres with the P because they had a black hat. This was before the baseball caps started making different colors. So we either wore Raiders hats.

Or we would wear the, who wears the P? Public Enemy. Was it the Pirates? Pirates, yes. And those were just naturally black hats. That's right. And it was funny, though, because me and Cube and everybody, we wore black. And then we found out there's a gang in Compton called Santana Block that wears black. So we were, we didn't know. We were still repping the set. No, it's funny. Whenever I think of Cube, I think of him in that black hat. Like, that's the image I have in my mind.

Also, we were LA had the Raiders, you know, a lot of times people ask me, they say, are you a Raiders fan? I'm like, I'm an LA Raiders fan. You know, there's a different, the Raiders moved around a lot. So yeah, we put them on the map too, in a real way. Yeah. I can, I can, I can imagine that. I, when you were, I was, I was reading some of the background on you, which was super interesting, but I love the notion of you in the army. Yeah.

performing your own raps over Rapper's Delight instrumental. That's got to be genius. Were you freestyling? Did you write stuff? Do you remember any of it? When I was in high school, I used to write rhymes, what they call hustler toast. It was pre-rap, so I wrote all these different rhymes for the gangs. I figured out early in my career that if I could entertain these gangbangers,

I didn't necessarily have to do some of the dirt they was doing. So I was a dancer. I would tell jokes. I was a funny cat. And they liked me. And I would say these particular rhymes just to them. Like, you want to hear one? Yeah, hell yeah. That's why I asked, man. I want to hear it. This is a gangbanger rhyme. It goes, so we pulled out the Roscoe. Roscoe said, crack. I looked again. Motherfucker was shooting back. So we walked over to him, took his gun, spit in his face, and began to run. So now that...

That's about as negative as you can get. Yeah. But it's something that the gangs liked. So when I would do that, the gangbangers say, show another one, cuz. Put my name in it, cuz. So they liked that shit. And I was like, yo, OK, I'll make these rhymes for these cats and stay on their good side. And then when Rapper's Delight came out, I was like, I can do that.

Because I'm already doing it. But I had to start writing rhymes and then syncopating it over the beat. Because when you rap in real life, you have to lock it into the beat. So it took a minute. Let me ask you this. As a white kid growing up in suburban, you know, as you can picture a white kid growing up, when I heard Rapper's Delight, I was like, oh, yes.

Oh, yes. So that's for sure the first crossover, right? Absolutely. See, first generation of hip hop is unrecorded hip hop. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. It would be Grandmaster Flash and them in the parks doing it on cassette tapes before they were making records. Then there were a few small, small records, but Rapper's Delight was the first national hip hop hit.

And hip hop is a very intoxicating culture because it incorporates four things. It incorporates break dancing, which street dancing has been all over the world forever. So people like, wow, I love that kind of dancing. DJing, they just took DJing to another level. Graffiti, which a lot of kids would, artists, and emceeing or rapping. And the rapper came from

The DJ being so good, because what happened with hip hop, the DJ found out that the best part of the record was the breakdown, where the record says, get down. And then there's no words. And the best part, on any record, when the break comes, that's when you throw your best moves. You know what I'm saying? Hell yeah. So the DJs figured out, why play the rest of the record? Just play the breakdown. Just play only the breaks.

And then kids danced off of that. They were called break dancers because they danced off of the breaks of records. And now you have an instrumental. That's where break dancers come from because they dance to the breaks of records. All right. Now, in order to play only the breaks, you got to be a good DJ because you got to catch it. So you use a mixer and you and you only play that part. So now what you've created is an instrumental instrument.

record. Well, the MC, the master of ceremonies job is to talk about the DJ. Hey, you know, my DJ's doing this, that, that. That's why all early rap groups start with the DJ name, Grandmaster Flats, Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, Jam Master Jay and Run DMC. The DJ is the core of hip hop. So now the rapper is

or the MC, master of ceremony, starts off talking about the DJ, but then he starts to seal the show. Yeah, well, he's good, but I'm great. And I'm this and I'm that. And I got a mansion and a yacht. Now we're living in the projects, right? But I'm relying, da, da, da, da, da.

The next crew that got up and you're the DJ, your job is to say, they were good, but we're better. And I'm fire and I'm nicer and I'm this, that, and the other. And that's where battling came in. Our dancers are better than your dancers. Our graffiti artists are better than your graffiti artists. Hence, hip hop, by its nature, is part sport. It's part competition, who's better? Because that was neighborhoods. But it was input into the South Bronx community.

as a deterrent to gangs.

Because they were like, look, ain't no girls coming to these parties if we keep acting up. So we're going to create this culture that's peace, love, unity, and having fun. And that's where the origin of hip hop comes from in about five minutes. That was amazing. I learned exactly where the term breakdance comes from. What about the term hip hop? Why is that genre called that? There was an emcee named Keith Cowboy.

And he would say it in the breaks between his raps. So you'd write a rap, and then in the middle, you go, your hip, you're hopping, you don't stop, rock, rock. That's when you're getting ready to set up the next rhyme, you know, and you don't stop.

to keep on to the break of dawn. Well, I'm this and that. And then when you get finished with that rhyme, you hit your hip, you hop. And so I think Bambaataa and them tagged that term. Oh, okay. Then they just lifted it for rappers. Well, Rapper's Delight, you got to remember, that was done by Sugar Hill. Now, there's a very famous plagiarism that goes on in Rapper's Delight by Big Bang Kang. And everybody deep in hip hop knows

Big Bang Hank was a security guard at a club and he got picked up to be in the Sugar Hill Gang. Well, there was another great rapper named Grandmaster Kaz for the Cold Crush Brothers, one of the most legendary rappers of all time.

He took Grandmaster Kaz and said his rhyme in Rapper's Delight. He spells out Kaz's name. He says, I'm the C-A-S-N-O-V-A. That's Grandmaster Casanova. And the rest is F-L-Y. So he's saying, he not only ripped off his rap, he ripped off his name. Wow. And yeah, and Kaz never got any money from that. Oh my God.

He said all of Grandmaster Kaz's rhymes. In hip-hop, that's called biting. That's biting. So, you know, that's legendary. But now, at the end of the day, now Grandmaster Kaz is getting his flowers. He was the star of my movie, The Art of Rap.

And he's going on now. He's on Sirius XM, and he's doing all kinds of things with A&E because we recognize him as being one of the forefathers of hip-hop. If you had to pick the most famous sample of all time, is there one or are there just too many great ones? Probably Fab Five Freddy from a Deborah Harry record where at the end he said, this cut is fresh. And that fresh is the record they...

It's a word he's saying, fresh. And it's used in Grandmaster DST's record Rocket. And you hear this fresh, fresh, fresh. That word is used way more over. As far as samples. So many great ones. You just have to know which one. If I told you the name of a sample, you may not even know the record. There's a beat called Substitution. And it was a small record, a breakbeat.

But it's the beat that goes boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom

So the only way they could make records was take pieces of other records. Steve Miller Band. Well, of course, Aerosmith's Walk This Way. So the key to the DJ, if you're a DJ, is you're trying to find these breaks. Then they would actually cover up the names on the label.

So other DJs wouldn't know what they're playing. Oh, wow. I used to rap off, I think it's one of the Black Sabbath records. I don't know if it's Wicked World, but the song goes, ♪

And then you know that song, and then it got a break. Now, DJs would spend hours listening to records, needle dropping for these, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that horn? And they would creatively sample

Creative sampling, you don't even know what record it came from. It's done so precisely. But, of course, sooner or later, people just start ripping off the whole record and just rapping over the record. That's not how it works. You know this as an actor, and I want to talk to you about that too. But as an actor, if you want to ad-lib a song and sing it, you get, I think, four notes before the company has to pay for it. Is there that same scene with sampling? No. No.

No, no sampling. You got to pay. You got to pay no matter what. When we first started, when we first started, we didn't know a lot of things about hip hop. We're in an unknown area, just like as an actor right now. They didn't plan on streaming. They didn't plan on all these different networks. So how do they pay us? They never even imagined it.

So now we have to circle back around and say, you guys got to pay us. I can't be on 50 streaming channels and y'all ain't paying. But it never happened. So in the same sense, when we started sampling, we didn't think, you know, and they're like, oh, you're stealing the music. Well, I ended up in court quite a few times for sampling. Here's the problem with sampling. When you sample, you're not just taking the beat. You're taking the performance. So if I sample Led Zeppelin,

technically i have led zeppelin playing on my record jesus you follow me now if i if i remake what they did there's a publishing charge but if i take the actual sample i actually got james brown on my record or i have ozzy i have them playing on the record and they're two and those are two different rates too by the way one's more expensive than the other right

usually when you sample you give them the entire publishing yeah so what happened is later on we learned how to just replay the sample like if we like that part of the record we would replay it and then it's a much much lower rate that's publishing but you know you learn the hard way i got i was in court for uh the group war you know they sued me and

You know, you got to pay. They say a lesson usually costs you money or pain and sometimes both.

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. By the way, you know that you and I technically did a movie together. That might have been one of those cut and paste movies. It was, brother. I mean, we have to talk about this movie because this is hot. Hilarious. So it's a movie called Crazy Six. And in my filmography, it's a little not this movie. OK, so it's me ice.

Burt Reynolds. Yes, yes. I know the movie. It was shot in Bratislava. Yes, in Bratislava. So, okay. So this is the best. So, by the way, this is the first time we've ever met. Meanwhile, we starred in a movie together. We're in scenes in the movie together. So this movie, I get this call. They're like, they want you to star in this movie. It shoots in Bratislava and they're going to pay you a fortune for six days. So I'm sorry.

A movie takes six weeks to shoot. They go, no, no, no, it's six days. So what they did, as you know, is they shoot everything you're in, everything through the whole movie. They don't shoot anybody else. They don't turn the camera around. They don't shoot any of the other actors. They just shoot you. And that takes six days. It's the whole movie, but just you.

And then they turn around and then they do six days with everybody else. And it was this guy who made a total business out of making these, as you said. Albert Pune. Albert Pune. When you think about it, what a genius he was to figure out a way to do that. I did a whole movie in one day. What? I did a movie called Mean Guns in one day. And, you know, the thing of it is, it's like you're an actor, but also this is your occupation.

You know, you're making money doing this. And people are like, oh, why'd you do this movie, this, that, and the third? And I'm like, yo, when they hit you with a number, your brain says, I could sit my ass here, home, and not make that money, or I can go get this money right now. And I always thought when I was doing awful movies, I'm like, maybe this movie's so awful, nobody will ever see it any goddamn way. Yes. That's right. You're right. So I need to go secure this bag because I...

I wasn't sitting on a million billion dollars at that moment. I needed the money. And I tell people I used to do sports car movies. I used to do I used to be looking in the magazine and I like want that new Porsche Turbo. And then somebody would call me up and say, hey, be in this movie. I'm like, all right, here's the deal. Put that car on the lot. I want you to hand me the keys to that car.

Right. They'd be like, well, we got to pay taxes. I don't give a fuck. Just give me that car and I'll do your movie. Now. Yeah. Clean. I want the pink slip. Yeah. And they, I'm like, you guys pay taxes. You cover whatever else has to be done. I need that whip. And I would show up and do movies for a week and all the movies sucked, of course. But that's when I was in my prostitution stage in my career. And.

And sometimes you got to do that, you know. And now, of course, it would take two Porsches. Yes, that's right. We still have our price is just a little bit higher. But, you know, the other thing about that, it enables you to do the things that you are passionate about. It's like I always tell actors, you got to live to fight another day.

Do you know what I'm saying? Right. I had heard Orson Welles hated acting. He only acted so he could direct. That's right. Well, when I did a lot of my movies, I built a recording studio in my house. I built a recording studio.

I built this big, you know, million dollar recording studio in my house, which allowed me to do my music. So, yeah, yes, yes. I was using this to fund that. You know, at that moment, Albert Pune, I was in a movie with Snoop. I did this movie. Yeah. Like Mean Guns, Christopher Lambert. I never met Christopher Lambert. Yeah, Christopher Lambert did all those Albert Punes. Christopher Lambert, of course, is famous for playing Tart, the original Tarzan.

Right. Graystoke. Graystoke, The Legend of Tarzan. And a bunch of great stuff. Great actor, great guy. And he did a thousand Albert Pugh movies. And you know what? I did a documentary on Albert Pugh and somebody got at me and they wanted me to talk and talk about his procedure and how he worked. Wow. I have to see this. Yeah. I don't know if it's out yet, but they interviewed me for it. It was pretty interesting, his theory, you know. But I learned a lot from it. Yes. Yeah.

I learned a lot from it. I learned that if you are doing a movie and you need a bigger actor, the object is hold them for the least amount of time. Like don't ask them to be there. People right now ask me to do movies while I'm on law and order and they want me for six weeks. And I'm like, it's impossible. Yeah, it's impossible. I can't I can't give you that much time, but we can shoot you out in a weekend. It's doable.

but they got to learn the Albert Pune technique. And it is a technique. I mean, it's, I mean, there are fight gunplay sequences in it. Yeah. And literally I never was around any of the other gunmen. It was just, it was insane. Here's my quick Albert Pune story that you'll love. So I get the script and the script calls for, they clearly want, look, they called me. They want, they want, you know, me. Right. I had just seen Sling Blade and I was obsessed with,

With Sling Blade. And I was like, I'm never going to get a chance to do anything like Sling Blade. I just know it. Wait a minute. So I say I'll do this show. And it's supposed to be me all coiffed and handsome guy and in a Lamborghini. And, you know, you can just imagine. I show up with a salt and pepper beard.

long hair down to my shoulders, talking like this, and playing a character I've decided has had his nuts shut off. And these fucking... They did not know what hit them. They thought they were getting, like, GQ man. Right. And I hit him with a character that was talking like this, you know, his nuts shut off, and looked like a homeless veteran. Because my thing was like, okay, I'm going to give him...

I'm giving them what they want, i.e. I'm doing the movie. Right. But on the other side of it, I'm going to use this as an exercise to

to do something I'm never going to get a chance to do in the real world. So when you see Crazy Six and you wonder, what the hell is Rob doing in that movie? That's what I'm doing. Rob was securing the bag with iced tea that day. We were just out there. You know, it was way over in Bratislava in the middle of Egypt. Oh, that's the other thing. They told me it's shot in Prague. This is also my favorite. Yeah.

They told me it shot in Prague and I was like, great. Prague's one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Legendary city. Never been to Prague. This is going to be great. I'll never, I'm in the back of the car being driven from the airport to the hotel. And there's like a fork in the road and it literally says Prague, 20 miles this way. Bratislava, 20 miles that way. The car turns to Bratislava. And that's how I knew I was, Bratislava, the only place to eat was the McDonald's.

I felt like I was going into one of the hostile movies. You know what I'm saying? It's dark over there. There's no lights. Did you tell him this? No other people in the movie spoke English. Only us. The rest of the background were all Bratislavian people that were grunting the whole movie. There was only the Americans they flew over there to shoot the movie. No one else spoke. And by the way, the Berlin Wall had only come down

about five years beforehand. So it was, it was like traveling back into, into an East, what was an Eastern block country. And my brother did a movie in Estonia once famously, and they had the, all of these gigantic crowd scenes at night in the rain and the cold and people showed up by the thousands. And my brother was horrified to discover that these people were paid. This is what they got. And,

This is just after the Berlin Wall came down. Thousands of people showed up in the night in the rain to work for a raffle ticket that enabled them maybe to win coffee and nuts. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I've been I was we actually toured Eastern Europe a lot. Republic enemy before the wall came down.

You have no idea what it's like over there. You know, they didn't have cars. It's like, it seemed like you didn't have lights, you know, great crowds because they were starving for something to do. You know, the people would show up for, like you say, they show up for coffee and nuts. They definitely showing up for a concert. Yes. So how did, how did you end up in the Dick Wolf world? So Dick Wolf, for those of you that don't know Dick Wolf, you certainly do because he's the man of television, Dick Wolf, uh,

Um, I'm surprised you haven't done anything with Dick. Well, how about I'm going to hit you with this. I feel that I am single handedly responsible. Any success that Dick has ever had in television because Dick, before he was in television, wrote movies and the last movie he wrote was a movie for Mr. Robbie Lowe called Dick.

Masquerade. And the movie did not perform well. And Dick was like, screw it. I'm going to start writing television. And he wrote Law and Order. So my thing is, if the movie we did together had done well, Dick might not have ever made billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. I wouldn't have a job. So, I mean, there.

There it is. Wow. That's deep. I know he started off as a writer with Miami Vice and things of that nature and stuff, but I didn't know about Masquerade. That's crazy. You've given people a list of movies to check out. I did. Masquerade, by the way, I'm really proud of. It's way ahead of its time. By the way, super sexy. I'm just going to say it right here. Remember those days? You don't see anybody doing that anymore.

Yeah. That's why you had the rated R. You like, Ooh, I watched, I watched officer and a gentleman the other day. Right. I was like, what the wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Those were the day. Well, you know, I got a Dick Wolf world. Um, as the story goes, I was, uh, at my house with a fab five Freddie, who I just mentioned with that sample. Yep. And at the time, Andre Harrell rest in peace was part of, uh,

New York undercover. Yes. And they, he said, I'm over ISIS house. And at that time I was doing movies. Now I'm, I think I had done, had you done trespass yet? I'd done trespass. I'd done surviving the game. I'd done tank girl with Lori. I did. Oh my God. Lori Petty. Yes. I did that. I did. Um, I think I just finished, um, the movie with Keanu Reeves. I'd done, um, uh, Johnny Mnemonic. Hardest, hardest name to spell.

In the history of titles. Right. So anyway, I'm on my movie shit. I'm getting money now. And they call me to do television. So I told Andre was like, tell Ice he needs to do New York Undercover. I'm like, fuck you. That's a ripoff of New Jack City. You know, I'm not doing that. I'm a movie star, right? Yeah, of course. So he's like, oh, come on, Ice. You too big now. Stop it, man. Stop it. We go back. I'm like, all right.

Write me, give me a bad guy. I'm tired of playing these good guys. Give me a bad guy and I'll do it. So I come on there to play this character, Danny up. I did one episode and I get a call and Dick Wolf said, I mean, Peter Jankowski says, they don't want to kill you. I'm like, what's that mean? They want you to do more episodes.

I'm like, we all ain't paying me enough right now. You know, there was a salary cap on, on, on being a guest star. People don't know that, but there's a cap so that they can't, so that artists can't negotiate. They just say, this is what you get paid. It's called top of the, called top of the show. That's what they call it. That's what they call it. And that, that provides them. So they get a bigger star. You can't negotiate. You can't play the game. Wow. So I'm like, I'm not getting enough, man. I got to go home. I got to get back to what I'm doing. I was also running a record label.

And he said, well, what if I perk you? I'm like, how are you going to do that? So they moved me from one hotel to the Four Seasons, put me in a suite.

paid for my other partner's room who was there with me, which was costing me an arm and a leg. Now, because even though you're there, you still have expenses. New York, you got to drive around. You want to go out. You want to eat. After taxes, you're pretty much eating all the money you're making, you're spending to do it. Let's say that. So they do that and they get me for two more episodes at the end of that.

I got called back to do another show he had called Swift Justice. I played a gangster. I got called back to do Law & Order Exiled with Chris Noth, which was a Law & Order movie. I played a pimp. They kill me with a bowling pin.

Then I pitched a show to him called Players. So Dick Wolf comes at me, goes, every actor thinks they have their own movie, their own TV show. So I pitched it to him. It's about some con artists that are federal that are stuck in the feds, and the feds want to use them to take down criminals. The old criminals take down criminals. He says, that reminds me of A-Team. A-Team saved NBC.

Do you mind if I move this around and work with this? I'm like, yeah, sure. You're a writer. Fuck it.

About a month later, he called me. He says, I'm with Warren Littlefield. I'm on a plane right now. Your show just got greenlit. You have a TV show. What? Like, what the fuck? So I'm excited. We move on the Universal lot. I got a trailer. We're shooting it. The tram's coming by Rob every day. Oh, yeah. And this is Ice-T's trailer. I'm like, I'm a motherfucking ride. I'm like, yo. I'm in Hollywood. So the show goes on.

They put it on at 8 p.m. What people don't understand, a lot of people don't know, as the night goes, the shows get more grimy. Yes. 8 p.m. is kind of like kid hour. They used to literally call it family hour. Right. I was on too early. I should have been on 9 or 10 because they were, you know, the show. So the show went a full season.

And, you know, hey, dig this. The show got canceled and we were getting 14s. That's just unbelievable. Now, just for the audience. So he's getting a 14 rating. They cancel it today. My show, 9-1-1 Lone Star, one of the biggest hits dramas on TV routinely gets a point nine. And that's a hit. You were getting a 14, not a point 14, a 14 rating.

Seinfeld was getting 20s. That's like the Super Bowl or some shit now. But that was because there wasn't that many channels. That's right. There was no internet. There was no TikTok. There was no gaming. There was nothing else to do. You had three channels, so that's what you did. So we get pulled. Four teens, right? They want six teens, I guess. That's unbelievable. When I leave that show, Dick Wolf says to me,

I wish I had a stronger vehicle for you because I love your work ethic. I love your honesty. I dig, you know, after five shows, Dick Wolf is like, I get iced tea. I know what iced tea is about. And so I get the call for Law & Order SVU and I say no, because first off, SVU wasn't in the top 40 at the time. The first season, they weren't really doing that. Oh, so the, yeah. So this, it's been on a season and then they call you, right?

Near the end of the first season. Got it. At this time, I'm doing, I'm trying to create iTunes. If you, later on after this, Google or anybody listening, Google Ice-T Invents iTunes on YouTube and you'll see me break down how iTunes is going to be

like five years before iTunes came out. And the fucking thing, it was an Apple show that was interviewing me. So of course I probably got a lawsuit there, but I broke down the way I thought iTunes was going to happen because I was up on MP3. So I was in my tech world. Come do Law & Order, SVU. I'm like, I don't even watch that show. Like, what is that about? I

Da-da-da-da-da. Come to New York. Here we go again. It's the same cycle. And they're only asking me to come to do four episodes. So I'm like, I can't leave for four. I'm like, nah. And my buddy was like, well, we're really not making any money here at this point. You know, it's a startup. You like New York. Go take a vacation. Go knock it out. Dick Wolf always been a solid dude with you. His check's clear. Go.

And I went and I did it. And it was the best decision I ever made. When I got there, I immediately connected to Belzer. Belzer was the best person. I love Mariska. I love Chris. Everybody was so cool. And here I come, you know, and it was a funny moment when, you know, after three episodes, they tell me, we don't think you're bonding with everybody. ♪

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

They tell me that. So I took Chris, I took Dan Florek, I took Mariska, I took Belza to the side one day because they give me this note. They don't think you bombing because I'm not taking motherfuckers out to lunch and all that old extra shit. I said, look, you guys, I used to rob banks in real fucking life. All right. To rob a bank. I don't need to like you. I don't. I just need to know, you know, how to drive. You know how to listen to the radio. You know how to control the room. You know how to go in the safe.

guess what? After we rob the bank, we'll become the best fucking friends in the world. And the more banks we rob, the closer we'll get. So me and Mariska have been robbing the bank for 23 years. She's my fucking best friend in the fucking world. I told Mariska, I got my daughter, I got my wife. But Mariska, I've made more money with you. So you try to say some shit about Mariska, I'll fuck you up. Because

We have a bond now because we work together. Like I tell people, Law & Order SVU is on right now, right this second, it's on. But I might not be on the screen. Kelly might be on the screen. Peter might be on the screen. So they're helping me stay employed. So everyone on this team is working for the same thing. Fuck who's the star? All of us. Now, as a bank robber, Dick Wolf is the boss. He's watching that car.

And he's making sure everybody's coming out of that bank with the same amount of money or more. And if you're not grabbing as much money, you'll be replaced in that car. And they'll put another robber in. So every time they change the cast, I talk to them. I say, look, you just got on the show. This show's been on 23 years. This is not a marathon. I got to stop you right there so people understand. 23 years. Yes.

longest running show in history, Rob. Dude. Longest running. So I come on the last episode of the first season. So I kind of can claim the first season. Yeah, for sure you can. 100%. But when I tell him that, I say, you just hit the show. You want to act every fucking scene. Just take it easy.

Take it easy. They're going to throw you an episode where it's going to be all you and you're going to have to work 15 hour days every day and it's going to bust your ass. But just ride it out because a lot of new actors, they get on there. They're eager. You know, they're not. No, I'm not getting enough lines. I'm like, you know what? Bells are taught me. He said with episodic drama. He said, you know what I look for in a script? I'm like, what? He goes days off because they're paying you per episode.

So if I go on a show and I say, huh, I get the same check as if I act every motherfucking scene. So basically my fans are like, we want you more in the show. I'm like, I'm in enough. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. You know, and when they do throw me the ball, I bust my ass and I let you see why I'm on the show. But I don't.

I'm not sitting in the back saying I wish I had lines like they're not paying me for per word. And I heard I heard that Steve McQueen said that it's not who has the most lines, it's who has the most memorable line. That's true. So I can I live off of that. You know, when I am on screen, I want it to be memorable. And, you know, there it is. And you've been doing it. I mean, Mariska, just a funny factoid.

My wife, Cheryl, hired Mariska to waitress at Santa Pietro's pizza parlor when she was managing it. And Mariska was like the cute waitress. And then, of course, has gone on to be a television. I mean, she's done more television than than anybody ever. She's 23 years and she's works her butt off. She has the record.

She has the record because she started ahead of me. You know, she was on that show earlier. But, yeah, she's got the longest running actor. I mean, we say actor and actresses. I still say actress. Yeah. You know, but she's the longest running actress in television history. And Mariska is a sweetheart. Mariska is a very, very nice, sincere woman. Yep. Who is... I'm very fortunate to work with her. I love...

People always say, well, how do you do it for so long? I'm like, because I like the work environment. Everybody's cool. Everybody respects everybody's power.

Everybody knows we're all, we're on a team. You know, somebody's the quarterback, someone's the wide receiver, all of us win the game. We win the game together. Well, the other thing is at a certain point, you want to, you want to continue the legacy and, and you know, you, I know you, you're like a competitive guy like me. It's like, you guys have a streak going, you know, you don't want to, you don't want the streak to end. You want to do what you can do to keep that streak going because it's so rare. No one's going to have 23 years doing anything anymore.

Well, the record was 21. So, yeah, I mean, if we this we're picked up for this season, 24 is 22 episodes season. Yes. Right. So I got a feeling we could go 20. I mean, look, I think this show can go as long as Mariska wants to do it. For sure. You know, the show is really about strong women.

It's a woman's show. I kind of play the background. I back up the women, you know, on the show. Yeah. But it's her show all day and all night. And when she gets tired of doing it, you know, we'll see what happens, but I'm good with it. I'm happy. You know, say, fortunately I got other jobs. I'll go on tour. You, you, you got your, but your heavy metal is what's the genre you would call it? Heavy metal, metal. We won, um, two 2021. We won best metal performance. Uh,

on Grammy. I know. So we're hot. I'm in this, I'm working on a new album right now. And I just did a rap concert, uh, this week, last weekend on, on the third, on the second. So. Which do you like better? Which do you like better doing the rap hip hop or doing the heavy metal? It's really hard. I mean,

It's live performance and live performance is nothing. There's nothing like television and movies are great, but there's nothing like live performance. People that do theater understand that having that immediate response. You know, when you do a movie, you do the movie and then you sit back a month or two or six and.

And then you get a delayed reaction like, oh, yeah, that was good. You know, it's tough. But right then on the stage, you know, right then, you know, and when you really, you know, like when you're doing a body count and I'm out there and it's, you know, we're doing these festivals, there's hundreds of thousands of people and you go, hold up. I want a glass of water. And you just take the glass and you drink it slow and they fucking just sit there and wait on you to finish your water.

And then you go, ah. And then, yeah! There's nothing like that. There's nothing like that. That electricity comes from live performance. So, of course, I love doing music. Rap and rock both have different energies, but...

You know, like me, Rob, as far as what I've done in my career, I don't care if you don't like something I do. Like, if you don't like the rap, but you like Law & Order. Or you don't like Law & Order, but you like... Because at the end of the day, you like a part of me. That's it. I mean, some people like it all. Some people, you know... And the ones that don't like any part of me, they can kiss my ass, too. Because, you know, thanks for nothing. You know? Yeah.

I love it. I want to, who's your, just who are your heroes in the, in the heavy metal world? Well, of course, Black Sabbath. Right. You know, that was like the first metal band I got into. I was into rock. I got into rock because when I was growing up, my cousin thought he was Jimi Hendrix and I was sharing a room with him. So he kept KMET and KLOS on the radio. Oh yeah. So before I knew it, I knew everything from Jay Giles band, Mata Hoople, Edgar Winter, uh, traffic, uh,

All those groups, Boston, ELO. And I lean toward...

Blue Oyster Cult, Deep Purple, Black South, the more heavier, darker stuff at that time. Yeah. And, you know, so that in metal, of course, of course, now I like Lamb of God. I like, you know, of course, we body count as part suicidal tendencies. Oh, yeah. So we got a lot of punk influences in it. Of course, Slayer. We remade Slayer. I'm one of the only people to ever do a duet with Slayer. So, yeah.

You know, I like a lot of different stuff. I'm influenced by a lot of different stuff. Do your two audiences co-mingle? Like the people who came up with you, do they get this new thing? Yeah. Well, you know, it's crazy. Like the cats that are wrapped, all I got to do is take them to one body count show. They're like, yo, shit's crazy. First, are they fighting? You know, you're looking at the mosh pit. The mosh pit, of course. Yeah.

But a lot of the white kids, of course, they were rockers first before they got into hip hop. So they crossed and stuff. I mean, at the end of the day, Body Count is metal, but it's sung through my eyes. So it's still very urban. It's very aggressive in the same sense. It's just using different guitars. And the band is all black. And we all went to Crenshaw High School. So we

We are body count. You know, we have a little mixture of everything, some points in the record. But our fan base is strong. So, you know, with that, you know, whereas Ice-T, I'm out there doing Frank Sinatra. I'm playing hits. Yeah. You know, I'm playing for my catalog. So it's all good, man. I mean, to be able to still do it and still have a fan base is a wonderful thing. Brother.

I'm with you. So ice is, if you didn't have enough to do, you've also written a book. You got it. You got to tell me what that was like for you and what, tell me about the book. Well, it's my third book. My first book was called the ice opinion. Who gives a fuck? Greatest title ever. Yeah. Where I, I break down all kinds of topics and every chapter just ends with, and that's my opinion on education. Who gives a fuck? Amazing. And, um, because I think people are too much into their opinions being, uh,

Law fuck that it's just your fucking opinion and it doesn't matter the second opinion was it's called ice Like I think it's called my road to redemption from South Central Los Angeles to Hollywood and it kind of breaks down the transition of Coming from where I came from this book is different This one's called split decision and this was written with one of my crime partners spike. See there's a pre ice tea and

Before I ever started making records, I was in serious trouble. I was out there. I was pretty heavy into crime. And the theory of ever being on television or playing a fucking policeman, come on, get the fuck out of here. So me and him were together as kids. And the book takes you through some of the things we did. Oh, wow. You know, when you tell your war stories, people are always like, is that real? But now there's two people telling the story.

So when I say, yeah, this happened, and at that moment, I grabbed the hammer, and he goes, and then Ice did this, and then Ice did that. So it validates the story. But there's a point in the story where I made a decision that I'm not breaking the law anymore. It's like stopping doing drugs. It's like, I'm done. You guys might continue to do it, but I'm done.

Because I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm starting to sell records and I got to stop. So he decides to put one more lick down. It's a jewelry store robbery in San Diego. He sets it up. He sends some cats to do it, calling himself being out of it. And in the midst of it, somebody got killed. So they give him a sentence of 35 to life sentence.

for being in the conspirator or the mastermind. This is the book Split Decision. As I'm walking down a red carpet for New Jack City, he's getting off the bus to Folsom Prison.

or Soledad or wherever. And it takes you on our trajectory as I'm going through all these great things, he's going through all these horrible things. So he did 26 years and he's home now. And he said, "Ice, I wanna write a book." And I told him, I said, "Nobody gives a fuck about you. It's my boy named Spike.

I said, nobody gives a fuck about you. But then I realized he was sincere because he wanted to redeem himself. He wanted to give people a cautionary tale. I said, you know what makes you special? Me. You have a friend who made it. That makes you different than other people. You could have chose my road, but you chose that road. Let's write a book. So we got Doug Century together, who's a big crime novelist and bestselling author. And we put this book together. And it's just a cautionary tale.

To tell people every single decision you make, even after you leave the studio tonight, Rob, every decision can send you on a trajectory that God knows what the fuck. And you have to make sure you make a conscious decision, especially when you're taking a negative route. A lot of times you even know it.

You go, okay, they want to come over here. They want me to do these drugs. I should be doing this shit. And you make the wrong decision and it ends up bad. So yeah, that's what this book is about. It comes out this month. I think it comes out the 19th. So far we've gotten rave reviews. People say it should be in schools. Sounds amazing.

Like I say, if you had caught me when I was 18, Rob, that's why I'm behind these bars. You would have said, throw this guy away. Never let him out. Fuck him. He's a he's a he's a terror. Now I'm the most favorite cop in the history of the fucking world. So the thought that someone can't change is bullshit.

It's absolute bullshit. You're victims of situations. You're victims of your peers, people you're around. And with the right guidance, anybody can do it. Now, don't get me wrong. There's some people out there that are fucking evil. There's some people that are just evil and they get off hurting people. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about people that are just making bad decisions and need a little help and a little guidance and hopefully this book will guide them.

Oh, man. That's amazing. That's amazing. Dude, this is great. This might be my favorite interview I've done. You know, I pleasure meeting you, man. Yeah, you do. Wow. How about that book? I'm going to I'm preordering that book right now. I'd like to be in the movie, although somehow I don't think I'm right for either role. Man, I mean, that one speaks for itself, huh? Right. All right. You know what time it is. It's time to check the lowdown line.

Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hi, Rob. This is Jenny from Charlotte, North Carolina. Love both your podcasts. I totally agree with you that Wind River is one of the best films ever made. And I have two questions for you. One, what director have you not worked with yet that you would like to because I don't think you've worked with Taylor Sheridan yet. And also, what actor would you like to work with that you've never worked with before and why? Thanks, Rob. Bye.

Oh, thank you. That's a great question. And right, Wind River, if you haven't seen it, it's a great one. They're all amazing in it. And Taylor Sheridan obviously made Wind River and then went out and created a little show that nobody's ever heard of called Yellowstone, which I love. Yes, I'd love to work with Taylor Sheridan. Hey, Taylor Sheridan, if you're listening, I look as good as anybody else in a cowboy hat. I have dad jeans. I have bootcut dad jeans I can wear.

You know, just as good as Kevin Costner. So just saying. Oh, and fleece vests. I can out fleece vest any actor working today if given the chance. Anyway, Paul Thomas Anderson. I would love to work with him as a director. Damien Chazelle. Love to work with him as a director. Sasha Baron Cohen as a director, comedy director. Like to work with Tina Fey. It's kind of the list, you know. Spielberg. I'd love to work with Steven.

I know him a little bit socially, and every time I'm around him, I try to pick his brain. And he's such a lovely, lovely nice man with so much knowledge, obviously.

Anybody that I can learn from and anybody who is currently at the top of their game. That's kind of the way I categorize it. Thank you for listening. Please keep listening. And I'm glad you're listening to both podcasts. All right. We're going to try to top that next week. Don't know how we will, but we're going to do our best. So don't forget to subscribe to this whole season we're doing. And that interview does deserve a five star. I'm going on Apple and giving that a five star.

So I hope you will, too. And by the way, if you like that as much as I did, take the link to the episode and text it to your family group chat. Spread the word because I thought that was super special. See you next week on Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Graw. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Salatara for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel.

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply.

Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.