LeVar Burton: Our Heroes are Human
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Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. I want to talk about the first time I met you in the circumstance. And you can tell me if you even remember, because I remember vividly. Do you really? The very first time we met? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally Wow. Today, LeVar Burton is here. If you've been listening to my show, you know that, you know, I've been doing this a long time and have met a lot of people. But my meeting of LeVar Burton and how far we go back is kind of extraordinary. So when I heard he was coming in today, I was pretty psyched because I haven't seen him in forever. And I don't want to make forever go any longer than it has to. So let's get started.

Okay, so I am probably 13. Right. I'm at Malibu Park Junior High. Okay. And I want to be an actor. Right. I'm fresh from Ohio. I don't know nothing about nothing. But I'm in all the school plays. I'm in everything, talent show. And there is for sure the most talented girl in the school was one of my best friends.

Holly Robinson. Right. And Holly would sing Desperado. And Linda Ronstadt would come. Yeah. And sit in the front row. Yeah. And listen to Holly sing Desperado. Holly's mother...

And why Holly's mother isn't more celebrated than she is, is kind of, I just don't understand. She's like the zealot of modern show business, Dolores Robinson. Yeah. She knows everybody. Dolores Robinson, I mean, single African-American mom. Yep. Raising two kids. Moved here from Philadelphia. Moved here from Philly. Drove her green Volvo station wagon across country. With a dream. Yeah.

So, and she is now, I'm so unsophisticated at this time that I don't really understand that much about Hollywood or what Dolores was or does, but she was a manager. And I was her only client at the time. Well, she, she, I would see around and then she stopped me in the hallway. I can see it like it was yesterday, the upstairs outdoor hallway in the history building. And she said, I want you to meet someone who,

Because next week, he will be the most famous person in the world. And it was you the week before Roots came out. Wow. That's a good story. And I remember... I mean, I just remember... And she was right. I mean, think about it. I mean, it's like...

Those were the days when that could happen. Yeah. Where literally overnight, truly overnight. Truly overnight. You'd obviously worked. You'd always had a career. No. No? Nothing? No. Roots was my first professional audition. Wait, what? Yeah. I was a sophomore at USC studying theater with an intention to graduate with a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and move to New York and hustle my way onto the stage. That was my intent and intention. And I auditioned for Roots in...

Early 76. Oh, my gosh. Early 76. And that process went through the end of March. I did my first main stage role at USC. I played Ali Hakim in Oklahoma. Oh.

I played Will Parker. Will Parker, how are you? I'm fine. How are you doing, sir? I'm glad to meet you. Oh, wow. We need to take this on the road. Didn't they call him a peddling man? Yes, that's the 8-0 Annie called him the peddling man. She sure did. 8-0 Annie. That was Will Parker's girlfriend. Indeed she was. Madeline Smith played 8-0 Annie in the USC production, who went on to play opposite John Travolta.

In what was the cowboy movie he did? Urban Cowboy. Urban Cowboy. Urban Cowboy. Urban Cowboy. I remember also that next week, I remember you on the cover of Time Magazine. Right. Yeah, that was crazy. What do you do? Where do you go from the cover of Time Magazine in your very first audition? Talk about being shot out of a cannon. Yeah, it was pretty extraordinary. And, you know, for the listeners who weren't alive for Roots and what it was,

I mean, it was such a—I can't think of anything that was bigger. I mean, honestly, it was as big as Star Wars. At the time, it was. Sure. It had an impact. It made an impact. Yeah.

And, you know, the idea that it was all broadcast in consecutive nights of programming didn't hurt. And how many nights was it? Eight nights originally, eight consecutive nights. Eight two-hour? Some were two, some were one. Oh, were there some over one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some were one. They had, I think, two one-hour nights. It was, what a ride. I mean, what was it like to go from...

From a regular person to a phenomenon. It was exciting and heady and really confusing. Frightening. Yeah. Even. Yeah. And Dolores, your manager. Saved my life. What was her guidance? Do you remember any of it? She just kept me safe. I didn't know this until fairly recently.

But Dolores used to show up at places where I was. She'd be casually talking to me on the phone during the day and say, oh, so what are you doing tonight? And I'd tell her, you know, I'm going to such and such a bar and hang out. I'm going to the Roxy or whatever. And she would get there before I did and get in the back and just, wow, right? She's like a Secret Service agent, a little bit. Yeah. She kept me safe. She kept me safe.

My other really fun Dolores Robinson, too, was I couldn't get a job as an actor and I was a busboy at the Nantucket Light restaurant in Malibu, which is now where Nobu is. Right. And I couldn't hold any job when I was a kid. I was always – because I was usually flirting with somebody. Right.

Or, you know, eating the mud pie in the walk-in freezer. That's what sunk my ship at the Nantucket Light. Mud pie has been the downfall of many a man. I ran into the shoals at the Nantucket Light. Is that right? Eating the mud pie. But I can remember clearing her dishes as she came in to eat and just whispering in her, get me. Well, you had quite a...

a dramatic start yourself. I mean, here's what I remember about you. You were part of a cadre of kids that went to Sammo High. Yes. Right? You and Holly, Matt Robinson, her brother, Emilio Estevez, right? Sean Penn. Sean Penn. Chris Penn. You guys were... And you know who gets forgotten? Robert Downey Jr. Robert Downey Jr., right. He was in my history class. Yeah.

What a cohort. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. It really is. But people ask me about it, and I think there are times on the planet when...

just kind of have an energy. You know, Laurel Canyon in 1968. Right. The Byrds lived next door to Jim Morrison and Jackson Brown had a place in the basement above the Eagles. Joni Mitchell. Joni, yeah. They were all Graham Nash. I mean, they were all there. Right? And Malibu was definitely... And there's other people we're not even thinking of. They're like the Dillon kids. Right. I mean, there's all kinds of tertiary people that you go, oh my God, you were...

It was a moment. It was a moment in Malibu, in the boo, as the kids say these days. And didn't Holly Robinson end up doing her first pro job with you as a dummy? Yeah, she did. Was it dummy? She did, yeah. Yeah, right. I remember sending her flowers to location and a telegram. Really? Where she worked with, she played with Stephen Williams, who ended up also being in Jump Street.

That's right. Now, and also, just a total sidebar, I was looking at your filmography. Were you in Looking for Mr. Goodbar? I was, yeah. Tell me what... See, now we're in these 70s, you know, movies in the 70s were the shit. Yeah, they were. They really were. They really, really were. And you were in Looking for Mr. Goodbar. I was in Looking for Mr. Goodbar. Who directed it? Richard Brooks. Richard Brooks. Richard Brooks. Wow. Richard Blackboard Jungle. Yeah. Right? Right? Yeah. Yeah.

who had a reputation, had earlier in his career had a script or, as the story goes, parts of a script sort of stolen. And so he was very, very secretive. My lines he wrote down and then handed it to me and said, here, memorize these. And so I was really excited after production wrapped to get two packages from Freddie Fields, the producer. Freddie Fields.

Right. Wow. Freddie Fields, a legendary agent turned producer, studio manager. Yeah. So I opened the first package and it's a beautiful leather, brown leather, gold embossed script book with my name on it and looking for Mr. Goodbar. So I'm like opening the second package. I know this is the script. Yes. Now I can finally read it.

There's a cover page and 110 blank pages. And that's Freddie Fields' sense of humor. I hope you can. Please tell me it's still around. It's still around somewhere. Oh, that's so good. I worked with John Amos much later in life, played the older version of you. Am I correct? Yeah, that's correct. That is correct. What an actor. He's still with us. Oh, yeah. John lives... I think...

Maybe he doesn't now, but for a long time he lived on a boat. Anybody who lives on a boat, that's a very, yeah, come down on my boat. Like it's such a gangster move. It is. It is. Living on a boat. Yep. Go any time you want. You can just peace out. Peace. That was a great cast. Lou Gossett, Ben Vereen. I watched Officer and Gentleman again last week.

Yeah, bro. Yeah. Luke Gossett also lived in Malibu. He did. Luke Gossett, um, when we, we shot the first, uh, three hours on location in Savannah, Georgia, and that's where I met Lou. Um, and then we came back to Los Angeles and in that first week of shooting here in LA, Lou took me home to his, his apartment, his house on, on the beach in Malibu, just so we could hang out, spend the night and, you know, and just spend time together. Um,

My very first day as a professional actor, Cicely Tyson played my mother. Maya Angelou played my grandmother. I'm sorry, who? I'm sorry, what? Dr. Maya Angelou played my grandmother, Neoboto, in Roots. And that very first day, those were my acting partners.

I know. I'm actually speechless. Now, what was that like? Was there any poetry read? Please tell me. Is there a LeVar Burton poem in the archives? You know what it was for me in those early days? It was being in the makeup trailer in the morning with those women and just being in their presence was...

was all I needed. I didn't have to eat or sleep. I just needed to be around them and just, you know, absorb whatever I could. And it was like that for the entire seven weeks. Moses Gunn, Gitu Kumbuka, Lou, all people that I had admired, you know, growing up and seen on television,

It was quite an extraordinary thing. And the weird thing is, is that I don't remember being particularly nervous because I knew I'm I if I knew anything at that point in my life, I knew who Kunta Kinte was.

I knew who that character was inside and out. What do you think led to that kind of awareness? Just my whole life, right? I just knew how this young man felt in any given situation. I just knew. I had that knowingness. Isn't it...

It doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen all the time, does it? Oh, God, no. Right? No. And then when it does, I'm not sure what to attribute it to. I think there's a, I have felt a sense of, I guess, destiny in my life. I'm sure you do, too, that there are things that have transpired that I could never have predicted happening.

And I am in awe of. And the only thing I can attribute it to is that this was part of somebody's plan. Right. And it wasn't mine, not on a conscious level. Because if you had given me a pad and pen and said, so draw it up. Dream up your career. I would not have been this generous to myself. Yeah, same. Right? Oh, yeah.

Same. And, you know, my first movie was The Outsiders, and that was a big movie. I thought all movies were going to be like that. Francis Ford Coppola. Yeah. Your first director. Right? Come on, man. And you don't. Come on. I know. I know. You just don't know. Come on.

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. I don't even know when the last time we physically laid eyes on each other. Decades. Decades? Yeah. Decades, right? At least a couple. Gotta be, right? Yeah, sure. And yet, you know, what a history. Yeah.

Yeah. And a sense of kinship. You know, we haven't seen each other in eons, but you walked in the door and was like, my God, let me hug this guy's face. I was so happy to hear that you were coming. It just warms my heart. I was hoping you were going to be the Jeopardy guy because you are like that guy to me.

Reading Rainbow, Jeopardy, Wordsmith, Storyteller. Yeah. And I know that you feel at your core you're a storyteller. Yeah. At my very core. Yeah. That's what I am. That's what I am. The most important thing that mankind has, the most important thing we do is storytell. Yeah. Just on a practical level, without storytelling, how would they know not to go to the waterhole where the tiger was? Right. Right? Yeah.

When you look at it from that to what it's become today, because that's really what I realize that's what I do. It's the oldest art form. Right? There is. We started telling stories in the cave, before the cave, right? We started recording them in the cave.

And reading, your mom was the one who got you into reading. My mom was an English teacher. Mine was an English teacher. Right. So it's good to have a mom as an English teacher, right? Best. Best. The best. Yeah. And it's interesting because you think that maybe they'd screw us up and the last thing you would want to do is read. But no, I read all the time as a kid. I know you did. I did, yeah. Yeah. My mom, because my mom always read. She was a reader. That was the modeling thing.

That I had. Yeah, it wasn't like they said go do it. They were doing it. She always had a book going at least once, sometimes two, even three books going for her own just, you know, just because she was so voracious about it and had really, she loved Louis L'Amour. She loved her Westerns. She had really eclectic taste. Was it your idea to start reading Rainbow or was it collaborative or they just knew you'd be a good fit? They had been developing it and they were looking for a host. Yeah.

And there used to be a show in New York on the news called Live at Five. Of course. With Sue Simmons. Sue Simmons, come on. Hello, Sue Simmons. So I was actually on my way. I was through New York on my way to Africa. And I was doing a little interview with Sue Simmons and the producers there.

saw it and tracked me down. They tracked me down at the Essex House Hotel. Like a breath of fresh air at Central Park. It's Essex House. And they pitched it over the phone. And Dolores and I were like, yeah, this makes sense. And see, here's the thing. Talk about everything happens for a reason. Okay. So here I am. I do this thing called Roots. It's my first job. And then I

These people want me to do a children's television show. Now, Dolores' husband, her first husband, she was divorced, but Matt Robinson was the original Gordon on Sesame Street. I mean... Right? So Dolores had this real special place in her heart for children's programming and really encouraged me.

To do it. And, you know, without that sort of push in the right direction, my life and career would look completely different. And it ran how? 20? 26 seasons. 26 seasons. Yeah. On PBS. It's unbelievable. And then, of course, there's the Star Trek era. The Star Trek thing, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Tell me about the visor. I got to know about the visor because I got to say, to me, the visor looked like a... There's girls in the control booth. What are the things you put when you're putting your hair to make your hair? It's not a barrette. Banana clip. What's the thing...

Thank you. Yeah. It's like, to me, it looked like just a woman's headband they threw on you. That was the inspiration. Was it? It was. No, it was not. It was the inspiration. No, it wasn't. Okay. Well.

Well, come on. Really? Ask Michael Okuda, the man who designed it. It was inspired by a Denise Okuda headband, a women's hair retention device. Okay, so I'm not crazy. No, you're not.

You're not. See, I was just thought it was one of those things where they were like, they've spent so much money hiring you, your ginormous fee and the sets. And they're like, oh, Jesus Christ, we forgot to do the goddamn iPhone for him. What about this?

Throw on a headband and like, yeah, this works for me. And off they go. Fram oil filter. That's what I thought it was. Yeah. Right. Didn't it ever drive you berserk? It became my nemesis. I'm sure. Yeah.

By the first lunch break. It was exciting at first, and then the real challenge of acting without my eyes sort of landed, and it was like, wow, okay. Did you have a, I wish I'd have thought, it seemed like such a good idea in rehearsal. It did. It was like I was so excited, and then the reality set in. What the hell have I gotten myself into here?

Because it's that, I wore an eye patch in Austin Powers. Yeah. And that thing used to drive me bananas. Is it the depth perception thing? Yes. Right. The depth perception. And it's kind of like,

Seeing a little is worse than not seeing at all, maybe? Yeah. Did you have like upper peripheral vision? No, I did not. No. I couldn't see above my head. I couldn't see. You couldn't see at all. I couldn't see my feet. No. No. I could see what was right in front of me. And the challenge was to not look for my feet, right? Because, you know, chief engineer had to know every inch of that shit.

And and you couldn't see me hesitating to figure out where the you know, where the ramp was or, you know, I bumped into a lot of shit in the first season. That would be a good behind the scenes. It was challenging. It was challenging. Did you have any apprehension about that kind of like Star Trek being such an iconic thing and doing a rebirth of it?

Or did you know, this is going to be amazing? You didn't want to be a part of it. I just wanted to be a part of it. Of course, yeah. I just wanted to be a part of it. And, you know, I think I had... I wasn't afraid of it because overcoming the stereotype of Kunta Kinte, you know, was the job, you know, that Dolores and I undertook after Roots to make sure that I had a career that...

that had any sort of longevity in order to do that, I was going to have to, you know, beat the tendency. Universal wanted to do the life and times of Kunta Kinte or, you know, a series based on stories. And I just figured that was going to be the,

The end. The end before, just as its beginning. Just as its beginning, so. Was Gene Roddenberry alive? Yes, very much so. What was he, did you meet him? What was he like? Very much, very much. He was, you know, he was that visionary. But one of the things that I learned from Gene was. Gene Roddenberry, obviously, who created Star Trek. Creator of Star Trek. They called him the big bird of the galaxy. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Gene taught me that all of our heroes are human.

Because I did revere him. And then I met him, and then I realized he's a guy, right? Yeah. He was from that generation, the three martinis at lunch. And, you know, you look at all the first—you look at Star Trek, the original Star Trek, all the women wore very short skirts. He was a man of his generation, right? So the idea that both things could be true.

He could be this incredible visionary and at the same time, you know, have the kinds of foibles that most men do. And that was, I think that was one of the most important lessons I've ever learned. That's a great one. It is. I'm going to steal that. I've got a couple people I'm going to use that answer on. It's a really good answer. Alex Haley taught me that your authentic voice as a storyteller is the only thing you've got.

Right. Develop it. Develop it. Know who you are as the storyteller. Right? Yeah. And that's why actors are just an offshoot because it's the same thing. That's right. It's the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. Now, when... Because I conflate all of the Star Treks. I get it. I start to get them at a certain point. And I go...

Because Whoopi is an old friend, too. And Whoopi was on and we were talking about her time on Star Trek. Right. You guys didn't. Did you overlap? We were in the same we were in the same cast in the same cast. In fact, it was Whoopi. Whoopi and I were talking because we both shared a love for the original track and Nichelle Nichols and Star Trek as an example of pop culture where black people were included.

Yes. And that was huge for for for for both of us. And so she said to me, I want to be on Star Trek. Would you tell Rick Berman? And I did. And he didn't believe me. Oh, right. I remember. She was the biggest star in the fucking world. I think she just won an Oscar. Yeah. And she wanted to do television, which was not done back in the day. No, no, no, no.

I mean, no. No. There was no crossover. So it was- Whoopi doesn't give a fuck. Nah. She just does what she wants. That's why she's Whoopi. Right? That's why she's so free. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I mean, talk about following your muse. Yeah, unfettered. Unfettered. She was just on the show and she's so- She's another one. Just like hugging on Whoopi. It's like she's just the best. Yeah.

She and Fred Rogers and Alex, to a certain extent, I put them in the category of most authentic people I've ever met. Tell me about Fred Rogers. I never met him. I mean, obviously, between the books and growing up with him. Right. I was just fascinated that he could time his clothing routine. Yeah.

In those opening credits down to the... He wrote the song, so he knew how much time he needed. Exactly. I mean... He knew exactly. He knew exactly. Right? And his mom knitted those sweaters. People talk about Christopher Walken having an interesting speaking rhythm. Yeah. I think Fred Rogers has one of the great speaking rhythms of all time. Yeah. It was also married with an intentionality.

of focus. He was, he was laser locked on you when you were in his presence and you felt the full force of his attention, which was considerable. He was probably one, certainly one of the most patient human beings I've ever met and openly, honestly caring and loving as a human being. Cause you wait, cause he's so patient.

embedded in the public consciousness as Mr. Rogers, you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. There was no other shoe. There was no other shoe. He was that guy. See, when I first met him, I was expecting, I was excited to meet the real guy. Right. Yes. Because that's got to be an act, right? Has to be, right? Has to be an act. Yeah. Nope. That's, that was Fred. That's amazing. Yeah. I wonder what Mr. Rogers would have thought of TikTok. Yeah.

Well, you know, Fred was a musician first and foremost, right? So he probably would have dug it. I call him a saint. He certainly was a saintly individual. I'm just going to go ahead and claim it for him. Claim it. Fred Rogers was a saint. That's amazing. Yeah.

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Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

Did you? When he was a Tiger? Yes, when he was a Tiger. Wow. Did you shoot in Tiger Stadium? We did. It was my first experience in a professional baseball stadium.

And Tiger Stadium was sick. Tiger Stadium, my God. So my very first experience at a Major League Baseball park, I come out of the tunnel wearing number eight at a home game. What is it with you and your first experiences? Yeah, yeah. You know, my first experience, I went to the moon. Yeah, my first experience, I was elected president of the United States. It's unbelievable. I've had a life, Rob. I really have.

And I ask myself often, what was it that I did in a previous life to deserve this one? I can't even imagine. I'm genuinely one of the most fortunate individuals I've ever met. Well, you know, the other thing I'm struck with, LaVar, is you've also seen and done it all. Look, you and I have been around a long time. And this business to survive...

You have to develop, call it a thick skin, whatever can make people super jaded, whatever it is. But you seem unaffected by the journey. And clearly you have to have been because you wouldn't be human if you weren't. But your sort of like vibe is really rare for someone who has been through what you've been through to get to where you've gotten. I was forced to figure it out.

Isn't that always the truth? I had to. It was get real or die. Been there, baby. Right? Yeah. And I decided to get real. And I literally went on an extensive period of search and exploration to reach the core of my authentic self and then bring that back to the world.

Yeah, and that's been my journey as well. Like the authentic self. See, you will relate to this. I have recently come to the conclusion that my job, Rob, is to show up and be myself. Dude. Dude. Right? Dude. No, it occurred to me in the last five years. Five years for me. Five years. Yeah.

The only thing I have to offer, really, at the end of the day, there's so many good actors. There's so many this's and there's so many that's. The only thing I really have to offer is me. Yeah. The sum total of my experience and my willingness to share that with others. Right? The benefit of my experience. Yeah, which, you know, which for me is why one of the reasons I do this. Because in learning about others, you know, I learn more about myself and...

People get to know more about me because this is the real me talking to you and writing books is the same. Memoirs are fun to write and not easy, but fun. I'm so glad you're in my book, bro. You're in it. Wow. Name-checked, baby. Wow. There's some good company in there. I can only imagine some of your stories. There's some good ones, man. I got to say. Yeah.

There's some Holly Robinsons in there. Dolores is in there big time. That was a good time. Let me ask you, what is, because I talked about it briefly earlier. What is, as a Jeopardy fan, if you go on Jeopardy, what's the thing that would be the most surprising? Is there something, is it like, I did Family Feud. Yeah.

It was so... I love game shows, by the way. Me too. I love them. And obviously, that Jeopardy occupies a whole other... It's a different... It's the...

It's the pinnacle in American game show culture. Game show seems debasing to call it. Or no? It's of a genre, I believe. I don't even like the term sitcom for comedies. Because it makes it... It cheapens it in some way. Do you know what I'm saying? I get it. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. So there's a little bit of that. So we'll call it a quiz show. Ooh. Right? Jeopardy is the pinnacle.

in this culture in terms of quiz shows. How do you have... Oh, it's because you read, of course. I was like, what's the source of your depth of... So much bullshit in my head. Yeah, yeah. Are you good at Trivial Pursuit as well? Or is that beneath you? No, not at all. In fact, one of the... In the Everything Happens for a Reason department, because I was really disappointed that I didn't get that gig. Because I thought...

Oh, I thought it was a lock. I thought, I thought, well, actually, you know what I thought? I thought it was a real audition. And then as it turns out, it really wasn't because the producer, the guy who, you know, taught me how to play the game. Yeah, Fix was in. He was doing it. He, the man who said, I'm not interested in the job. My job is to help them find the right person for the job.

Always intended to give himself the job. I call that the Dick Cheney experiment. Well, President-elect, I will help lead the search for a vice president. We will find the vice president for you, Mr. President. Oh, wait, it's me. It's me. It's me. It was me all along. All the time. So...

One of the unintended consequences of not getting that job was the phone ringing and on the other hand being Hasbro, right? Who said, we have a little piece of IP called Trivial Pursuit and we want to turn it into a television show. We can't think of anyone we would rather have hosted. And they made me a partner in the enterprise. There you go. And Jeopardy would have never done. Where does Trivial Pursuit, where is it in the process? We are pitching now.

And we've come up with what I believe is a really good game. How long did it take to crack the game part of it? We cracked the game part in about four to five months. Yeah. It's hard, isn't it? It is not easy. Isn't it hard? Yeah. In fact, I think, you know, originally, you know, we were going in one direction. I thought it would be very, very cool to not have any to not be playing for money. Right. Let's play for something worth more than money. Let's play for an experience. Right.

Nah, people want it, you know. People want money. People want money. There's certain things I, because I sometimes do a show called Mental Samurai, which is a, it's a, you have, it's trivia under stress. Wow. Both the mental and physical stress. And by the way, I love hosting it. And we've done two seasons. We may be doing a third one, but-

And we created the game, obviously. And the things you learn about what works and don't work in terms of a game for people to watch, it's amazing. And it's usually keep it simple, stupid. It's like our thing was originally was it's an obstacle course of the mind. Like what's the Ninja Warrior, right? And then we realized, no, no, nobody wants to watch a game.

That they go into thinking no one's going to win. It's really interesting. So in the second season, we reworked the game so there were more winners. Turns out, people didn't like to see people lose every week. No, because... But it's something you don't think about. You want to identify with a player. Yes. And in that identification, you want that player to win. For whatever reason, you're attracted to their personality, the color of their eyes, their smile, whatever it is.

They're a stand-in for the competitor inside of you. Exactly right. Did you ever have a moment where you watch a contestant flail and it's just, you know they know it and they're drawing a blank or they don't know it and they're drawing a blank and you're like, you have to be kidding me. I've been on that side. You've been on that end of it. I've been on that end of it. I've been on that end of it. There was a Star Trek edition of The Weakest Link.

And I got into the final round with, I don't know if you know the actor Bob Picardo, Robert Picardo. Sure, I love him. Wonderful, wonderful actor. He's a great actor. Really sharp dresser and a lovely human being. And the clue was about pre-war war.

It was a word for pre-war. And I said, I, and I, you know, as a seminarian, I studied Latin and I, I've got to know this. I know it's in there somewhere. And the clock was ticking. And, and then, and just as I was about to let go and say, I don't know it. Boom. Antebellum came into my head and it was like, wow, I can't believe it took me that long, but it did. But thank God it was buried somewhere. And then it came, then it came out. And,

Without, almost unconsciously. Almost unconsciously. Because I had like, oh no, I don't know it. I'm done. And then boom. I had this guy who, I believe, it's been a while since I've seen the episode, but he was a NASA engineer, right? Super smart. And it's his very first question. And you have 60 seconds to complete a mental obstacle course. Okay. And use visuals as well. And the question is, the prompt is, name this image.

Superstar 80s pop duo. And then there was a picture of a long hallway and a bowl of oats. Hall and Oats. She's got 60 seconds. Okay. Oh boy. I'm not really good with music. So there's a hall and bowl of oats. Hall, boat, oats. Hallway, oats. Cereal. Floor. Hall. Oats.

Oatmeal floor ceiling. 60 long seconds. That's painful. And this is my last one. This is my favorite one. So it's an anagram. You can see the anagram. And it says, this anagram is the title of this iconic 90s ensemble sitcom. It's clearly Friends, right? I mean, it's right there. It's the anagram. 60 long.

And I said, look, you're going down clearly. Don't you want to take a swing at it? Just name something. He goes, all right, all right. Durfans. Ouch.

I wanted to redo the Friends logo with the famous Friends font with Durfans. But I got to say, you can be really, really smart and not be good under pressure like that. Yes! There is no pressure like the red light on a camera, right? When that red light goes on and you know that it's on you, it's just a whole other level of...

I need to perform now. There's a reason why Stanley Kubrick made Hal a red light. Yes, exactly right. I never even thought of that. Right? Whoa. Right? Yeah. Just like the all-seeing, all-knowing, cold, unblinking. Huh? Hal. Yeah. So I get it. I get it. Pressure can, you know...

Pressure's a motherfucker. Yeah, it is. Oh, we didn't talk about the Jim Jones story. Oh my God. See, this is the problem when I look. It's funny, I've wondered why I'm obsessed with Jim Jones and the Guyana tragedy, and then it was because I was watching you in it. It's your fault.

Well, there was a hell of a cast. Was that the one with Powers Booth? Yeah, Powers Booth. Diana Scarwood. Irene Cara. Irene Cara played my love interest. If you guys have not ever seen this, try to find it. It is the most disturbing. It's pretty good. It's so good. And Powers Booth was unconscious. Powers Booth is one of the great actors of all time. And...

And noteworthy, what's the noteworthy sidebar about that? Well, he was the only actor to cross the Screen Actors Guild picket line and go to the Emmys to receive, because he knew, everybody knew that Powers Booth was going to win, and he was not going to not show up to pick up his statue. It's great. It's...

What is the actual title? It's one of those convoluted titles. Guiana Tragedy, the story of Jim Jones, not even the Jim Jones story. The story of Jim Jones. The story of Jim Jones. That's a great one. Yeah.

But no, it's okay. You're going to have to tell me this. LeVar Burton Reads is my podcast. I say at the beginning of every episode, hi, I'm LeVar Burton. This is LeVar Burton Reads, where in every episode I pick a different short story and I read it to you.

So it's not chapters. No, I'm reading short fiction and I lean into speculative fiction because that's my favorite genre to read when I'm reading for pleasure. I love science fiction, speculative fiction. So, and I'm,

I also love doing this show because there's a whole generation of adults out there now who grew up on Reading Rainbow. And on Reading Rainbow, I used to recommend books to them. And I'm now recommending authors. You know, I pick literature from a lot of different voices out there, marginalized authors, authors of color, women. So I'm still introducing this generation to literature. Yeah.

I love it. I love it. Have you read any audiobooks yourself? I have. Love doing audiobooks. I figured you would, right? Love doing audiobooks. I did The Unabridged Cosmos. What? Carl Sagan. Oh, my God. That was a project. That was an amazing project. Amazing. Yeah. Won a Grammy for the Martin Luther King autobiography. Yeah, autobiography of Martin Luther King. You get all the heady stuff. They give me like...

Give me a title. Give me an audiobook title that Rob Lowe has done. And I'm honored. It's Stephen King. So it's great. Come on. It's Stephen King. Come on. Dolan's Cadillac. Short story. If you haven't done it. Nah. Okay. Dolan's Cadillac. Dolan's Cadillac. Okay. It's in his first collection of short stories. I'm on it. I'm on it. I call it his old man in the sea. Is that right?

Because it's a man, it's simply a man with a task. There's no dialogue. Oh, wow. Awesome. That's awesome. So we're in his head the entire time. It's him working. It's pretty intense. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Well, everybody check out the podcast. You can get it wherever you get your podcast. Wherever you get your podcast on, I like to say. I get my podcast on all the time. And we got it on today. It was so darn fun. Rob Lowe. From 1976 to today.

I wish you guys could have seen the interview as well as heard it because he his energy is like there's you. I could stare at LeVar Burton's eyes for a long time. He's just kind and just what a great I feel all warm and fuzzy. Like I said, what an interesting, amazing man. Anyway, thank you. I hope you guys had fun. You got questions. I got answers. Let's hit the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hi, this is Diane from Oregon. I just finished listening to your book. Fascinating. Loved it. I am now watching The Stand and Saw Seen Animals Fire. Dan, you are a wonderful actor. Anyway, in the book, you said you got to see a version of Outsiders that includes the scenes you had filmed but had been cut. Is

Is there a way for the public to see that version of The Outsiders? Thanks much. Hope you're having a great day. Bye. Oh, thank you. Thank you for that question. Yes. In fact, I tell everybody, if you're going to watch The Outsiders, don't watch The Outsiders. You watch The Outsiders. It's great. But the version that has all of the stuff that we originally shot is

which includes everybody's stuff. It's the movie we thought we were making. The Outsiders version that is commonly known as The Outsiders, the original, does not follow the book really at all. So that's why they call the version I'm talking about The Outsiders, The Complete Novel. So that is the title. The Outsiders...

the complete novel. And I think that has actually now become the version of record in schools that study The Outsiders, because they usually, kids have to read the book in the seventh grade, and then they traditionally show the movie. They're finally now showing The Outsiders, the complete novel, which is nice because all my stuff's back in it. Anyway, thanks for the question. Appreciate it.

More fun next week on Literally. So please make sure you just download the whole season, would you? Because they're all really super good. But next week is in particular one of my favorites. So I will see you next week on Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Bagar. Our research is done by Alyssa Grahl. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music on this podcast was composed by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally with Rob Lowe. ♪

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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