Natasha Lyonne: Just One More Thing
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Ladies and gentlemen, it is literally with your humble servant, Rob Ert Lowe. Middle name is Ert. Natasha Lyonne is, I mean, what? There's no description that can come close. Just wait. If you've seen Russian Doll, you know. If you've seen Orange is the New Black, you know. If you remember her from Pee Wee's Playhouse as like, I think an eight-year-old. I mean, they broke the mold, ladies and gentlemen.

After they created this wonderful woman. Let's get to it. What is your hat saying? Mustad? Mustad. Is that like a mustard type of hat? It is a fishing company. It's reels and rods and lines. My son is a major. In fact, he's out. My son is out defending his title, having won the fishing tournament at Catalina.

last year. So he's out defending his title. So I'm supporting my boy. That's what he's doing. That's nice. Yeah. You know what I mean? So we've never, I don't think we've ever really had the pleasure of crossing paths in the flesh, have we? I don't think so. I know. We have lots of mutual friends in common. Ms. Polar. We should have met. Yeah. But it's not.

but it hasn't come up. No. Amy Poehler, Maya Rudolph. I mean, lots of your peeps. Those are my favorite people. Those are my, that's my whole lifeblood. That's how I'm functioning. I don't blame you. I always think that it says a lot about somebody who their people are. And you have found the motherhood

the mother load, I think. The heaviest of heavy items. Literally the mother load, right? They told me I'm not even allowed to have children because of their combined total. Yeah, it's kind of a lot. Maya, I've known since, I always call it the 90s, but it's probably the early 2000s. Right. So way before everybody had babies. And little Amy was a wild thing. Yeah.

I was what you call a hellcat. Yes, hellcat. But Amy and I, so Maya and I were always super tight. And then I even met Fred back then. I think Maya brought him over to the house one day.

I gave him a copy of Please Kill Me to try to explain to him Class of 77 music, which turns out he knew quite a good deal about and then forgot. But he kept that book, which is sweet. And then Amy and I were always sort of pals in passing. But really, she called me like maybe it's a decade ago now. Maybe this is going back, I guess, like 20, 25 years, which is weird because I think I just turned 25.

29 this past September. And, uh, but about 25 years ago is when Maya and I, I think first became friends. And then Amy called me about a decade ago to say, Hey, as long as I've known you, you've always been the oldest girl in the world. And I was like, why is she calling and insulting me? And,

I'm not doing great right now. I was sitting at home watching NYPD Blue because I'm in love with Dennis Franz because I think he's a real cutie. And I love Detective Sipowitz very much, which is what we should spend most of our time talking about. And he also had one of the great sex scenes in television history. He did with that butt. He did. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

Yeah. Dennis Frans. I mean, you know, he's doing that thing that I think guys like that, like to do like Peter Fogg late in Columbo life, they get into watercoloring, like they find a house somewhere and they get into watercolors. Anyway. So she called me up and she said that, and she said, why don't we make a TV show about that? I said, great. I have absolutely nothing going on. I'm all washed up. Nobody at this point, Amy, thank you for this phone call.

It was probably on a landline. And so that obviously became a failed NBC show called Old Soul, but that led us to co-create Russian Doll and

I have a production company now with Maya called Animal Pictures. So we're deep in. These are like my two major people. I love, though, that the first try, you know, try, try until you succeed. The first thing didn't work and you didn't go, eh, this isn't a good partnership. Because a lot of people, when you do something together and it doesn't work, you're kind of like, even if it's unconscious, you kind of like go, you know,

I don't know. And I love it that you guys didn't. I am a little bit running my showbiz life like the mafia. I would say I'm like, I'm in it for life. I would happily like walk in front of a car for those two women. I just love them in such a deep, complete way.

And I would just do anything with it. I'm so grateful and moved that they're in my life and they make me feel like, you know, even if everything else is wrong, I must be doing something right that those two ladies see me and I see them back. No, for sure. It's almost like a little bit, not to be too emo about it, because I do try to project toughness and I'm not sure if it's working, but I think it's almost like an inner child thing of like, I just feel so safe with them. Like,

I just feel our little girls playing together and like my little curly hair and Maya's little curly hair. And the two of us are just out there. And it's like, if we're holding hands, we're safe together. You know, I can totally picture you guys like as little girls out in the woods, like exploring shit together. 100%. And they're fucking, they're smart as shit. I mean, they are deep. 100%. Not only do I concur, I was going to ask you, let's take it on a case by case basis. Um,

If you could only pick one thing for Amy to do with you, would it be write, act, direct, or produce? Because I'm just saying she's so good at all of it. It's another way of saying, what do you think she's best at? For me, I guess...

Honestly, I think it would be producing just because she's, you know, that is basically what we do together. And she's just, she's extraordinary at it. She really is. So she holds it down. You know, I think I'm, I'm very like Artie and I think I need, I need someone to really, you know, I think that so is Amy, but she's very good at being a,

a tether and she's like a brilliant dreamer like when we just sit in my apartment and just think of ideas and it's like I can feel us both getting chills like we really love riffing together there's sort of a jazz musician quality to her and she's just such a deep deep human being and so funny but then also when we're actually in the thick of it like

out in the fucking apocalypse now you know jungle and the budgets and everything I just feel so safe that Amy is this kind of producing captain on deck because like I know she's got me and that

She has such a great, you know, I'm a little bit like fracked from psychedelics and surrealism and, you know, like too many John Lennon albums. I'm very much, I want to like live the dream all the time. And Amy is so grounded in this way that she's like, if I, if she's kind of co-signing it, I know it's completely legit. If that makes sense. Like, I know it's not just a,

you know a pipe dream it's it's necessary you know if she says something is brilliant i believe her and if she says something's unnecessary i trust her she's like cut this whole you know alpha beta nadia allen storyline to save covid costs and it's too complex the show is too dense the audience won't be able to follow you know what i mean i'm like all right buddy i trust you yeah

It's very well said. It's very true. And she trained with some of the best of them. I loved having her as a director when she would direct on Parks. It was super fun. And the laugh. Let's talk about the laugh. How great is that polar cackle? Making Amy laugh is so satisfying. It's addictive. Yes. And I know we love things that are addictive. Yes, we do. And it is fun. I mean, I would say, I don't know if you experience it,

it this way but I'm like jokes are almost as close to anything that you can touch in that sphere of like a legal altered state and obviously that's no small reason why you know Amy and Fred and Maya became these like crucial figures in my life for almost survival it's just

You know, the actual air changes where you just can't even remember what you were so pissed off about that seemed so important just moments ago. You're in some third space where when you come back from it, it's like your whole perspective has shifted on all things. Totally. So, yes, that cackle is heaven. I want the cackle to be my ringtone.

I just have to get Amy to, she should license it. She should. Money. I think we figured out a way to make Amy some even more money. Yeah. And I like it. Amy would have been good at anything. Do you know what I mean? She could make money doing anything. Yeah. 100% true. And you know, the other thing about Maya, which is great is the added bonus of, of, of Maya is that you get to sometimes talk to one of our great living directors, her husband, Paul Thomas Anderson. He's, I mean, he's, he, he,

He, Robert Eggers, probably my two favorite directors. You mean Living? Living, yes. Probably. Probably. And they're so suburban and nice and normal, and then they both make this insane, cutting-edge art. It's kind of cool to see that. I've never met Robert Eggers in person. What's he like? Never met him. I assume he looks like The Scream, like Munch's The Scream, if you saw him in person. Yes.

right that would be a good face to walk around with right yeah somebody should get that face somebody i feel like people are doing plastic surgery wrong like how great would it be if people were walking around i was really like fucked up crazy like you know scream faces and just like weird like a

third eye. Well, think about it. Like, bring in a Picasso and be like, I want that face. I want that. Why wouldn't you do that? People bring in pictures of the Kardashians on a yacht and they go, I want that. Right. Why do they want those crazy butts when they could get like crazy eyeballs on their cheeks? That's what I'm saying. They're doing it wrong. Listen, the butt is equally as misshapen as anything Picasso did.

Absolutely. Why not a butt right on your face where it counts? Yeah, everybody can see it. But it's so cool. Put your butt on your face. What are you scared of? Robert Eggers? Yeah, come on, Robert Eggers, scream face. I'm like, this guy has so much plastic surgery. He's running around making movies. It's like, I know why you're behind the camera behind me. You're not fooling me. You got a butt on your face.

At the doctor's office. With my luck, this will be the podcast that finally makes its way to Robert Eggers. And he's like listening, going, wait a minute. How did I get taken down by these two nuts? I'm just trying to make my great movies.

You know, anyone that's not working with us, I'm like, you know what, honey, snooze your moves. Okay, here, fair game. Not my baby, not my problem, like I always say to Robert Eggers. Yeah, as you do. So Fred is doing my new show that I'm doing on Netflix. Oh, that's right. He told me this. And I am so excited. And he was so sweet because...

I let the record show I'm single, but let's continue talking about this, please. Keep going. Honey, I'm looking better than ever and I'm ready to rumble, but we do have plots together that we've already. So we are, so I need somebody who's like open or whatever, like a couple of decades, whatever, a decade, a month, however, however your clocks work. But just know that I'm probably going into the afterlife with this guy. So if you're cool with that, hit me up.

At roblo.com.org. Yeah. Armisen is, you know, he's one of, I think he's the funniest person alive, I think. Right? It's very possible. Yeah. He's so funny. He's so funny that his mom is. No, he's so funny. Yeah, that's right. That one of my favorite things about my shared life with baby Freddie is

I call Big Baby Freddy after Big Baby Jesus, the old Dirty Bastard song. No, that's not true. But if we would wake up in the middle of the night because we thought we heard a burglar, obviously we're two people that are deeply ill-equipped to handle or navigate a burglar. But then something would happen, like half asleep, and the next day I know we'd be laughing hysterically while sleeping and then fall back asleep. One time I remember...

Waking up from a dream and something funny happened and we're just, I think we were both laughing in our sleep. We had a very funny, funny relationship going. We really, we really, and we're still so, so tight. And I've just, I love that. I think that's what having,

a husband is like, I just can't imagine that people are actually doing these many decade endurance tests, but I feel like he's my husband and I love him. I'm faithful to the idea of us. You know what I mean? Yes, I love that. I love that. I'm faithful to the idea of us, but I'm out there. And the thing is,

We live and we die, you know? So reconcile this, who can, not I.

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. I'm guessing you're a downtown girl. I don't picture you in the Upper East Side or Upper West Side. In fact, I actually was raised in the Upper East Side private school. Wait, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow. That's an interesting contradiction. But I was a scholarship kid. Okay. And they didn't like me very much. Yeah. And then I was sort of like the class pot dealer, got expelled. Then I was on Letterman. So they asked me to come back because they wanted me to be alumni. But then I skipped my senior year by NYU, by Tisch. I was going to be a double major in film philosophy. And I was like, oh, I'll be able to make funny Bergman movies and

And I had just come off of working with Woody Allen, who back then was incredibly trendy. It's so funny. People today cannot really imagine what how what Woody. By the way, my phone never rang from Woody. So I'm perfectly happy to let him twist in fucking obscurity. Thank you. He's your Robert Eggers. He he you know what? Like when you're around long enough, like I got a couple. Well, no, you've been a child actor. So you've been around. OK, so good. We can talk as peers.

How about the people like your phone never rings from? You're like, I'm sorry. What the fuck? How about that's most people? Yeah, I know. But still, it's like Woody Allen made 5,000 movies. Yeah, he should have called you. I mean, you'd think there would have been something somewhere.

It's not too late to go back. Listen, now's the time to work with him. Now's the time. Get him on discount. You could get in there. But no, it's, but he was, boy, was he the man. He was the man. What was that like? That was a big, was that Julia Roberts was in that movie with you, right? Am I right? Yeah, it was everybody. Julia Roberts, Goldie Hawn, and Woody Allen were my parents, and I was Portman, and

Gabby Hoffman and Lucas Haas were my siblings, and Alan Alda was a stepdad. Jesus. Tracy Ullman was maybe a stepmom. They just got cut. I feel like Liv Tyler got cut from the movie. She was great. Drew Barrymore was my stepsister, too. Tell me, give me a little Woody Allen. What was his process like? I've always heard, like, he'll shoot things and come in and go, you know what, I didn't like any of it, and then go back and reshoot. Like, what was it like? It was, well, it was interesting because I was,

I was playing his daughter, but I was also the narrator. So it's like almost a traditionally what his role would be. And so there were all these, yeah, I got, I mean, I've been doing this since I'm five, I'm 43. I don't look a day over one, but it was big. I guess I'd been in Pee Wee's Playhouse. That was my big thing.

you know, six-year-old with Claim to Fame. And now I was like 15, 16 doing this Woody Allen movie. And, but just to say that they were all super, and I was, yeah, I was like this reject kid from private school, but on the Upper East Side. So I think part of how I got the job is it was very much about like private school, Upper East Side. So I sort of was talking like that.

I didn't have this deep voice yet that came later. Uh, so I think I tricked him in the meeting into thinking I was indeed one of those girls. Cause I was going to like one of those schools. There was like three of them and I was in one, but then they were all so famous. And I remember like, that was not sure if you're familiar with this, uh, Fellini film. It's based on a, I think they're all based on Edgar Allen Poe short stories maybe. And, uh,

Anyway, it's called, the bigger film is called Spirits of the Dead. And there's another one that's Roger Vadim. And the third one is Louis Malle. But the Fellini one is called Toby Dammit. And it's with Terrence Stamp. And he's kind of like this screwed up, you know, actor who's going to some weird Fellini-esque version of like a dancing Italian Oscars. But he's seeing like sights of the devil and stuff. And I think that my early experience of showing up

like number one on the call sheet with all of these famous people everywhere was I very much experienced it like that. Yeah. Toby, damn it. Short film, which is like, who are these people? They're just all, they all seem to have a sound, a sound that most disturbing part is I now recognize myself. Like I can hear that sound that we all make when we all see each other at these, you know, things it's like these,

you know, like a frothy, you know, events that we go to. Give me the sound. Give me, go into the sound, please. Oh my God. Hey Rob. Yeah, I know that was so great. We did another thing. I know because I know Zoom, right? COVID. Okay, great. Good luck with Rats and Reels. Okay. I know Robert Eggers. And like that sound of in passing,

Like small talk that really rots your soul, I think. That is a danger zone. That's what that song is about. That is what it's about. So to me, I don't think I had necessarily the vocabulary experience to articulate the soul sickness that was creeping up from being around that. I mean, when you see Alan Alda, you think soul sickness. Let's just be honest. I mean, I think everybody knows that.

Alan Alda, two guys that have played versions of my dad that I love to death are Alan Alda and Alan Arkin. I love those dudes. Oh my God. They're amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. I mean, I know Alan Arkin a little bit. I got to be on the set of Glengarry, Glenn Ross, and watch Alec Baldwin do the famous Always Be Closing. I was there watching it because my wife was his makeup artist. That's sick.

Yeah, he was like, he's an amazing man. So funny and so, you know, that's great. I love that, dude. I recently turned down Pacino's part on Broadway in Glengarry. No way. Yeah, it was going to be me and Patti LuPone. Can I ask you a question about that? I have a lot to ask. I'm assuming you, did you read it or did you just know it so well that you know what it is and didn't have to read it? Because my question is this, is the always be closing part

which was written only for the movie and is not traditionally a part of the play. Was that in the play? Oh, I don't remember. Maybe not then. I think it was just the actual...

Raw Dog Play, which is what it's called. Yeah. Which I think people, if they go to that, they're going to be like waiting for that scene. Where it's always be closing. And it's not there. Alan Alda is in part so great because he loves science so much. So I would find him, that should have been sort of, in many ways, looking back, that was probably an early wake up call to that I find science very soothing.

Like when they always are talking about this idea of, you know, find something bigger than yourself to hold on to. Yeah. I, for me, I really use like the, the scope of that. It's my, I read this Bill Bryson book called a short history of nearly everything or something. And I was like, ah, I love concepts, you know, and they were separate from anything. Like I was so bad at science in school.

But Alan Alda, I remember was, he was, would be the only person I would find really relaxing because he was, and I was, I was buddies with the kids like Natalie and Gabby and Lucas. But anyway, the point of the story to your question is that I actually spent like a very close year with Woody or maybe two years because at the end of the whole movie, I actually had to go back and do all the voiceover stuff. So I was like,

I was with him at his office every day, recording and re-recording as he would change the narration as he was editing.

And soon he would always be there with the New York times, like reading out the obituaries, reading out the obituaries. That's amazing. Yeah. It was like a real, like Woody Allen stick they had going, but I do think that at some level, that was my sort of like aspirational goal, goal going into, um, uh, to Tish is I was like, Oh, I guess I'll be like, that's what you do. You start, you do a decade of child acting. Then you work with Woody and then you go and you learn how to write and direct movies and read a bunch of philosophy and,

You know, you get these great cinematographers like Carlo De Palma and all these, you know, you make these. I mean, his movies are pretty, you know, gorgeous, all things considered for kind of comedies. And then instead, I just I bought an apartment out of the back of the New York Times. And then, yeah, just went on a rough springer.

none of those things happen and now now I'm 40 it's all happened does it feel like you woke up one day and like you're you are who you are and you go where did it because I don't know I look back because I started young too and it feels like it's when this how you know like quantum physics is the real thing and and and that time isn't linear because it feels like it was yesterday and it also feels like it was forever yeah I know it is a funny thing I

It's just, yeah, what's weirder still is how seriously we're supposed to take it all, I guess. And yes, it does often feel weird. And thank you so much for segwaying me so nicely into the show. But I was similarly curious about that concept of

Sort of like what they call time's arrow, you know, and this idea that you can remember the past, but you can't remember the future when in fact it is sort of being proven, like you're saying empirically from a scientific standpoint, that there is some sort of block universe happening and time is conceivably an illusion. But, you know, our perception of it that makes it, I guess, real. And I guess in some way, that's what the show is trying to straddle is reality.

a question around, um, you know, would this sort of anarchy of non-time actually be preferable or is it, you know, the nature of finite time that seems to give life meaning. Right. And I don't know, I would personally be fine with, I think, I think I'd be quite a happy vampire. I think I'm an anxious person and I, I would love to, uh,

you know, take more breaks. I think I always feel like I lost a whole decade in there from, you know, being a junkie. And I would love to, I think I'm so scared of kind of time running out and I still smoke cigarettes and it really stresses me out. So I would love, yeah, I'd love to become a vampire or a mammal and a cyborg and fix that. How, cause yeah, I'm in recovery now, 31.

Two. Wait, hang on. Let me do the math. Good news is it's long enough that I have to do the math. Thirty thirty two years. So when you exited your junkie era, did you did you get into proper recovery? Do you do the California sober thing, which is always, you know, California sober, by the way, is I do. I still smoke pot and I drink, which works for some people. Didn't work for me. How did you navigate it?

Well, to be honest, I'm always sort of like reluctant to, you know, talk about this stuff in great detail. I'm always, you know,

curious how you do it because I always heard a thing about like, you know, you don't want to be, um, stuff with too much transparency. Like if you're, you know, driving, um, and you have road rage and you got some weird bumper sticker that says like, Hey, I'm in recovery. And then everyone's like, Oh, I guess that doesn't work. So I'm not going to try it. That's right. So like a sort of measure of, uh, so I always try to be like a little bit

You know, I mean, I think it's in my case, it's sort of such a kind of, you know, public outing, whatever this is, I guess, like 15 years ago that I mean, thankfully, I guess there wasn't really Internet yet or it would have been a lot more chaotic. Although I sort of wish I had some videos. I wish I had like the teenage videos I would have made.

I'm just like, I've got an iPhone. Burning your apartment down, just Sid and Nancy type shit going on. I'm kind of like, where are those videos? Yeah, so it's sort of, you know, I mean, it's obviously pretty evident that that's not my lifestyle anymore, but I always do try to be somewhat vague about it, but just to say I, yeah, I'm obviously, I'm not a junkie anymore, and I guess it's been about, you know, 15 years, and

I do take it all pretty seriously. I'm not really, you know, this and that. I know what you're talking about with this kind of like, I mean, like the sort of exception to the rule type of recovery stuff. But I do wonder about them by cigarette smoking and if that should be legal. I feel like they should have made that illegal or something because I use those things like crazy. And I would not say that I'm like a fully...

As you know, I'm sure that you're still a very sick person. Oh, yeah. I would not qualify myself as particularly well, but what's so funny about getting your life together is almost...

It's like outwardly it's sort of, I no longer live a life where like other people are sort of being punished as by, you know, as a result of my inner life. Like even if my inner life sometimes feels similar or familiar to me, it's like, you know, I show up, I'm where I say I'm going to be. It's like, I do my best. I'm,

like lead a life of deep transparency for better or worse. You know, I'm always telling the truth and I, and I do really believe in, in trying to kind of contribute in some way to, you know, I think, you know, just like reading the news is so overwhelming. And I, I think I'm very empathetic to,

what it feels like to be a person. Cause I've seen such a large swath of humanity and experienced, you know, my own road that's been high and low. And, um, so, you know, when you see all this stuff and like, I remember we were editing the first season and it was like that wave of almost like Twitter, um,

suicide was kind of like first happening like anthony bourdain had just killed himself and it was shocking it felt like every day there was a new person that was and people were just dropping like flies like extraordinary people just couldn't pack it and uh then of course we all lived through this pandemic in season two and i think on some level for me making this show is very much uh

my response to that of saying, you know, on a deep level, as best as I can, like, hey, I know what all this stuff feels like. And we're in this thing together. So let's get really honest about the fact that it feels weird because it is weird. And the setup of the game is off. And like, you're not nuts for feeling like life doesn't make a ton of sense or how are you supposed to get the sort of, you know, gusto to go on and want to

play this game with this riddle where you die anyway and you're supposed to be in a rat race your whole life. And, you know, all these kind of big sort of existential questions and, you know, monogamy and career and like self-image and perfectionism and compare and despair. And like, I just think my heart really goes out mostly to

young people and like young weirdos. I think that's mostly where I'm, that's like a lot of where my recovery lives. And then in essence, yeah, just like, yeah, I show up in a big way, even if I don't, even if I'm not dying to, like, if I say I'm going to do something, you know, I'm there and I'm all the way present for it.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers, passport. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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Ashley has you and your sleep covered. Subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. No minimum purchase required. See store for details. So in this season of Russian Doll, it's the subway, right? Is a big... Is basically the storytelling engine that...

I heard that was Amy Poehler's idea. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, now she's trying to backpedal. Now she's trying to say it wasn't what it was. I know because I was a showrunner, so I had to manage the budget of it. And it's a brilliant idea. So yeah, we already had the idea of a sort of portal device, and we already had the subway to go visit the character of Ruth. Yeah.

And she said, oh, why not make up one thing? And it was a very classic Amy sort of stroke of genius of like, once you've heard it, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Yep. It seems like it was sitting there all along. So it's out right now. It's out. And do you know if they've renewed you for more or have you been renewed? Are we getting a season three? We don't have that information yet. At what point do they tell you? I'm curious. I'm only curious because I'm about to go through it with Netflix. Like,

Oh, is your new show the one with Fred for Netflix? Yeah, it is. But you guys haven't shot your first season yet, right? No, I start Monday. Literally this Monday. I start literally Monday. Did you create it? I co-created it with my son and Victor Fresco, who did Santa Clarita Diet and Better Off Ted. So it's very similar to what you guys did. It's three of you co-creating. Yeah. It's hard. Hard.

Horror genre? No, it's comedy. Oh, good. It's comedy. I play a larger-than-life...

increasingly unhinged father who's a tech genius, very renowned. And my son plays, the son is trying to get out of that orbit any way he possibly can. And Fred is playing a psychiatrist that the board of my company has forced me to see because they think I'm losing it. Oh, like the Sopranos. And I've- But funny and you and Freddy. Well, I've kidnapped him and he's now living in my basement. Why would you do that to him? Well, no, now he wants to live there.

He doesn't want to leave because my basement's so fun. And we make forts and have hot chocolate together.

It's very insane. I literally cannot wait to start working with him. But I'm so curious because you're doing this with your show. It's very much the same thing. Do they go, well, looking good. People like it. Maybe there's a season three. You're like, just tell me. It is sort of like that. And I mean, it's a little... I think what's weird when you get into kind of like these Ochoary whatever shows that are happening now is, you know, it's never really...

you're not really on the same sort of like network timeline of, Oh, we've got to make this and we've got to turn it out for the next cycle. Like more likely you're doing something almost like, okay, when this idea is like totally together and we've got all like the writers and all the elements that we kind of

want to do and it feels like now is the window to do this because you know it takes really a year to do it yeah but since you've got to take a year to you know blue sky and get an idea and do a writer's room and you've got to staff everything and hire everyone and pre-production and shooting and

editing and like the mix and then you know the publicity of the thing like marketing it it really it's a pretty big gig so it doesn't I don't know in my experience it doesn't really this year obviously we took three years between seasons Jesus um

So, I mean, a lot of that is obviously pandemic, but even still, it's just, I would say it's a little bit less traditional than, you know, you're set up to kind of get back so you can get back on the, you know, primetime schedule for the next season. But I guess they're all different and they're doing it, you know, more, you know, differently.

It's getting more different all the time. And you have how many episodes a season? Is it up to you guys? So season one is eight and season two is seven. Did they ever ask for more? By the way, you're walking past a Peter Falk picture. So you've mentioned Peter Falk. And there's a picture of Peter Falk. He clearly occupies something very special to you.

Ryan Johnson gave that to me. We're doing a show together now. And one day this showed up in my house. So now it's here. I just moved in here. I was a big Columbo person. Did you like Columbo? We're different ages. It was on TV when I was a kid. I do. I like Columbo very much. And I like all of it. I like Wings of Desire. I like his whole Cassavetes scene. Yeah, I do love Peter Falk. You know, he couldn't think of it. Today he wouldn't be able to smoke.

If he was on a network TV show, that cigar was a big part of Columbo. Couldn't do it today. I know. And how would he even solve those cases without it? So I know. And the other thing, the network would be like, we're a little tired of the overcoat. Yeah. They'd be like, uh, maybe like a little, a leather motorcycle jacket or something. I mean, just to break it up. I had Ron Howard on the podcast. This is my all time, all time network note story ever. Yeah.

So on Happy Days, if you go back and look at Happy Days, Fonzie makes his splash entrance. He's the breakout character of breakout characters with his leather jacket. And the network gets concerned that the leather jacket will signify to everybody that he is involved in drugs.

So they tell Gary Marshall that Fonzie cannot wear a leather jacket on the show. Cannot. Because leather jacket means drugs. And so Fonzie, if you look at some of the early episodes, is in a madras cloth jacket.

And eventually Gary got around it because the network agreed that if he was on his motorcycle or near his motorcycle, he could wear the leather jacket. So if you look at happy days, he is always in his leather jacket, but the motorcycle is in the Cunningham house. It's in the diner. It's literally on the set. And that was only so that the network would let them wear the leather jacket. I mean, it's insane. The things that they, that they, that they get in their heads. Insane. Oh, it's,

it seems almost like anything that's sort of a trouble spot is what later becomes iconic. And it's weird that nobody's figured that out yet or something. Like you would think that they'd be able to see that coming a mile away. Like, Oh, we don't like it. Well, that's what it's going to be known for. Boy, it's so true. We had, we were going through that a little bit now on the show, like the things that worry people have the, you're right. The things that worry people have the very, you know, DNA to pop, make, make people notice. Yeah.

So true. Russian Doll is out, the new season. Do you have any highlights? Do you have any favorite episodes? Have any favorite moments? Yeah, I mean, it's pretty wild. It's like a psychedelic adventure show. It's dense. I really hope that people watch it. We put everything we had into that show, and it means everything to me. There are some very, very silly things that happen

I would say that the top of episode six is pretty insane. It involves a very unsanitary birth. So if that is your bag, boy, will you love it. The unsanitary birth demographic is... Because I know what the people like. Yes, exactly. Yeah. If you love liminal spaces, unsanitary births,

And trips through time. My God, this is your bag. If you want to hear someone kick out the hits, you're going to get a hot playlist. I can't think of anything that's more descriptive that makes me more excited. Tell me about Dennis Franz. Tell me a little bit about your obsession with Dennis Franz. I'm very curious about this. He's such a good actor. I think I just really...

I go in big for the real deal. That's my shtick. So I really like heavy-duty people who are... I take things very seriously. I'm a ridiculous person, but I'm obsessed with the work, you know? And I like seeing the true content of a person's soul reflected on screen. I think that Dennis Franz does that beautifully as Detective Zipowitz. There's just something about him that just feels so...

deeply human and uh yeah i'm really i'm a i'm a sucker for humanity i really uh sort of like i guess to me that's even part of why i'm never like you know oh these are the things that i do to you know um not get high as i actually you know i've absolutely no judgment on anybody that gets high i totally understand that in fact i'm like i'm so blown away i think it's so

wild that we live in a world that even has those things available. Why shouldn't everybody be allowed to take them? Because it makes so much sense that people would need a way to soften the load or make things more fun or just make sense of things. Anyway, Dennis Franz really doesn't do any of that, but somehow it seems like he's a container for

you know, all of those feelings that people have in a real sort of normal dude way that has nothing to do with like, like, of course I love Lou Reed or whatever, you know, or Salvador Dali or something like these are a certain kind of people, but there's something about Dennis friend sort of like grounded dude that has nothing to do with, um, yeah, I just, I, yeah, I love his person. I love how like kind of down and out he feels. Uh, and it feels like,

I mean, it's a whole thing, right? There's also, you've got David Milch in there, I guess. And now, David Caruso, kind of a genius. I mean, like, I'm a big David Caruso CSI guy. I did a little, well, with Maya. Maya and I did a show called The Grinder. And she played my psychiatrist. All your friends are playing my psychiatrist. What does that mean? And I'm secretly the psychiatrist. That's the plot twist. See? Yeah.

I mean, so when we did The Grinder, I did a lot of David Caruso stuff.

I'm a big fan of him and CSI. Well, every time I take my sunglasses on or off a situation, in my mind, I'm just doing. Yes. Now you've seen, I'm sure the super cut, the famous super cut on YouTube of him doing the one liners, taking the sunglasses off one after another. Oh my God. You haven't seen this. Oh, you are going to, when we're done with this,

You're going to look at that. It is absolutely the most enjoyable three minutes. It goes on and on and on. And each one liner is more ridiculous than the next. It's the best thing ever.

I already, it's already my favorite thing. No, no, it is. Trust me. I, I stake my entire reputation on it. So if you're, if people are listening, you have to go YouTube. It's David Caruso, um, sunglasses. Dot edu. Supercut edu.gov.com. AOL, whatever the hell, however you find it. It's my favorite thing ever. Yeah. And you know what it is also? It's like as an acting thing, it's like, it's a, such a bold, uh,

Because it's a bit much. It's more than a bit much. It is much. It's actually much. Well, it's actually insane.

And it's funny when crazy things become normalized through repetition. That's what it is, I think. And that you just become immune to them and you just start to accept them, even though the first time you see it, you're like, oh, that's a crazy thing to do. And the second and the third time, you're like, now it's getting crazier because he's doing it more than a few times. And suddenly you're just like, that's what he does. That's who he is. In the lines, we've got a sinking crime scene and the tide, glasses, is coming up.

Cue the who. It's the greatest. Do you know the David Caruso ghost story? Has anybody ever told you this? No, please, please. And I'm going to tell a story and you're going to think, oh yeah, that's an apocryphal Shubba's story that may or may not be true, but it's genius. I've now had it confirmed by multiple writers. It's true. David Caruso on, so I have a friend who's a writer on CSI. He comes in in like season three of CSI Miami. CSI Miami.

And you're like, hey, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. How's it going? Great. Great to have you in the stuff. Hey, has David had the talk with you yet? And he's like, no. David's going to have a talk with me about what he does. Well, you'll see. So David eventually has this young writer, you know, and says, listen, so, you know, my character, Horatio Crane, isn't that I think the character's name?

um is a wraith he's like i'm sorry you know he's a wraith so he he is he he is a spirit of problem solving of of uh of of good versus evil he's the embodiment he in the guys okay so don't ever write him entering or exiting he doesn't do that he materialized he materializes

So if you look at CSI Miami, he does not enter or exit ever in any scene. No way. This sounds so insane as to not be true. And I've had it confirmed multiple times. This is one of the craziest things I've ever had in my whole life. He's a wraith. I'm so happy I came here.

Honestly, this changes many things in my life. It's a star move. Scenes going on and they're talking. All of a sudden you're, hey, what are you talking about? You cut and the person's already in the room. But here's my question. If you don't let people shoot you coming and going out of doors, how do you find your in-memoriam clip? Because that has to be like you entering? No, it's entering. It's exiting. It's always like every time I go through a door and turn around and look at somebody and go, that was it.

That's my in memoriam. Weird. I'm weird. That's a specific trip you're having. Isn't that a dark, dark thing? You know, Fred always says that his deathbed

is going to be Last Looks. That's amazing. It's incredible. I'm stealing that. I am going to call my co-creator's son, Johnny Lowe, and say, I got a good Fred story. Yeah, and now every time they call Last Looks on set, I immediately picture a deathbed. It's like all that jazz, and it's just last looks.

Last looks. Well, how about now when you leave a scene and turn around? Like Columbo. That's all he did was exit and turn and go, what? That's all he did. He goes, one more thing. One more thing. I will bet you if you look at Peter Fox in memoriam, it was that. How could it not have been? We should play that.

There's a lot of YouTubing to be done after this. I mean, it's a busy, busy day. I was going to take a load off, but not now. No. Things are going to get busy. You're going to do the David Caruso and you're going to thank me. I was going to do the crossword, but no, no. No, but no, no. Will you please tell the lovely polar...

Lots of hugs coming her way and the lovely Maya as well. And we all need to figure out a way to see each other one of these days. And it was lovely talking to you. You're exactly as I imagined you to be in my fantasy of you. Thank you so much, Rob. I'm so happy to do this. See you in the flesh. That, my friends, is what a roller coaster ride is like. So many interesting things that she's talking about.

And I can't keep up. I can't keep up. There's so many. I want to go back and talk to her again because the nuggets of interesting stuff that she throws away, just unbelievable. That was great. Ring, ring. What's that? Oh, it's the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-

4551. So have at it. Here's the beep. Rob, Joe calling from San Diego. Loving the podcast and just finished your book, Stories I Only Tell My Friends. So good. Avoiding any spoilers, I'll just say that your stories about your interactions with future megastars before they were stars and the inside scoop stuff,

that changed the course of Hollywood history are just awesome. Questions from my wife. She asked about your cover photo for Stories I Only Tell My Friends. How did you select it? Is there a story behind it? It looks like you're looking out at something and shading your eyes from the sun. Thanks. Hey, Joe. And hello, Joe's wife. Didn't tell me what your wife's name was, but hello to her too. I love that you're asking about the book cover.

A lot of time and effort went into it. I treated that book like it was an album. Like if I was a rock star in the 70s or 80s when albums meant something, the cover was a big deal. And I wanted an image that as someone who's, you know, the picture taken a lot would be a version, a picture you've never seen before. And then when you saw it, you would go, oh, that's from the book as opposed to, oh, is that a still from a movie? So I did a big photo shoot, tons of different poses,

And I did that one pose, one image. That was it out of all of the other ones. And that's what we chose because it was different and weird, still looked good. You know, and then the subtext of it is, you know, looking out, observational, all that stuff. A lot of people wanted just a big, pretty shot of my stupid mug. And I wanted something a little more interesting. So I'm glad it caught your attention. Thanks for listening.

We're going to be back here. We're going to do this again. I've decided we're going to do it again next week. Okay. It's on. So please don't forget as usual to subscribe to the entire plethora and five-star review on Apple. And don't forget Parks and Rec election if you're a Parks and Rec fan and all of that good housekeeping I've done and I've done it and now go on through day and go forward into the world. And I'll see you next week on Literally. Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begaar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Grahl. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Salatara for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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