Sona Movsesian: Slash on the Wall
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Welcome to Literally. It is me, Robbie Lowe. Sona Movsesian is my guest. Now, Sona, I'm sure you guys know because if you are listening to my show, you are obviously listening to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend because they're my producing partners. They produce this show and everybody loves Conan, right? Right?

And I think Sona brings out a sort of, it's a Lennon and McCartney thing that they have going on that podcast. And, um, and she's super charming and super funny and interesting in her own right. As you're about to find out, um, let's bring her on. I have a humble little show here. You week in and week out with, you know, big red, as I like to call him, uh,

Conan O'Brien, you guys are the, you're the gold standard. You're the red standard. You're not the gold standard. You're the red standard. I think a common theme throughout my entire career has been just writing his coattails. So I can't take credit for that. But it is really nice that the one podcast that I did is one with Conan O'Brien, which, yeah, it's, you know, yours is also huge too. So, I mean, it's just one huge podcast complimenting another huge podcast.

Well, I've had so much fun doing this, I have to say. I mean, but like I at least was like you. You literally went from worked your way up from being a page. Mm hmm. Yes. At NBC to sitting in the big chair next to Big Red. Yes. Big Red. Yeah. Tell me about being at Frizzell.

Do you have pictures of you in the uniform? I refused to allow anybody to take a photo of me. Come on, those are iconic pages. It was a horrific, horrific polyester nightmare. I mean, it was blue blazer, white button-down shirt with a peacock tie, and a gray skirt with black tights. It was gross. Just hearing you say that, I'm transported...

to Saturday Night Live and somebody like you is trying to figure out where to put my family in the audience. Yes. Yes. There's a lot of celebrity families I tried to figure out where to put them in the audience. I mean, I sat a lot of people. I gave a lot of tours with a lot of very false information. And I started off as an intern at NBC. So it was really fun. But how great...

30 Rocks, that whole vibe is really great. Is it from a page's perspective? Because obviously my perspective would be very different, obviously. But I still get a buzz about being on those floors. Here's the thing, Rob. I was a page on the West Coast. I was a page in Burbank. Oh, Jesus. And have you ever? Yes.

Oh, forget it. Have you ever been on that NBC Burbank lot? The one that was on Alameda and Olive, I think? Oh, yeah. Where it was the Tonight Show. The actual... Yes, obviously. So you've been there for sure. Okay, so wait a second. So is there a... There should be a Page rivalry then because West Coast Pages...

I'm sorry. Present company accepted. They are definitely not on the same level. No, no, no. East Coast wins. I'm sorry. When I said they, I meant they as in the East Coast pages. The East Coast pages win. When I heard that the Today Show page gets a car service to take them back home after or take them to work, I can't remember. What?

how it worked. They get a car serve or they used to, I don't know if NBC still has the money, the money to spend on that, but they would get car service from whatever apartment they lived in to 30 rock for the today show. And I remember thinking, okay. And then I come to Burbank and,

And there's nothing at Burbank. I mean, The Tonight Show was the biggest show at the time. And it was, you know, I mean... Was there ever a time when Jay did not wear the blue denim shirt? No, no. As you walked around? I've never seen him anything except in a Canadian tuxedo. A denim shirt, denim pants. And one stop on our tour, because it was so...

not boring, but very unexciting, was what car did Jay drive into work today? And we would look at his parking spot. And sometimes there'd be a fire truck. Sometimes there would be the most exotic sports car you've ever seen. Yeah. His car collection is probably one of the most extensive in the world. Yeah. And his collection of denim shirts. That's so true. I heard he has all of his cars in an airplane hangar somewhere in Burbank. I think

Yeah, it's it's I think it's actually in Santa Monica. Santa Monica is the place where all of the people keep their their cars. And Jay, Jay has those like Matt, what's the correct pronunciation of that dog? The Malamute eyes? Like, do you know those like, like, they're like sled dogs, like their eyes have this crazy blue Malamute eyes. And you come back there with that blue shirt and those blue eyes. And hey, just came by to say hi, it's been a great show. And you'd be like, this is gonna be great.

It's a perfect Jay Leno impression. I didn't know he had, you mean like huskies? Yeah, it's like a husky. He has like husky, you know, there's a really crazy blue, crazy blue eyes. I didn't know that. I mean, you know, I know that his wife was Mavis and that she had a seat in the audience that we always reserved for her. And that's about it. And that he always, he just loves denim. Who doesn't?

Well, you know, wearing denim with denim. I don't know how often I would. I don't love it every day's worth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's other more comfortable fabrics than denim. And you know, the other thing that was amazing about Jay was he, nobody worked more, loved working more. He would finish the, as you know, he would finish the Tonight Show and

go to Burbank Airport and get on a plane and fly somewhere and work on the weekends doing an appearance or stand-up show or Vegas, get back on the plane and repeat. And just did it. I think he might have worked every weekend of the year. Yeah, I think I remember hearing that about him too. I mean, my opinion about him definitely changed after everything went down with Conan's Tonight Show. I have to be completely honest and tell you that. You've got to support Big Red.

I, oh, I'm, I'm team Coco all day, every day. But I think that there's a, yeah, I, I, um, I just remember the moment the show ended, he was out with an outfit, you know, ready to get on the, in the car and go someplace else and do comedy. He just was constantly going. And we know that Conan hates to work. I mean, you know, he will do anything to avoid it. Yeah. That guy just, he's the laziest person I've ever met. He hates learning.

He hates history. He hates presidential history specifically. He's so lazy. And I think he's the reason he set the bar for everybody who works for him. And all of us just phone it in. And you know, when you live your life in a lightless, sun, no sun cocoon, like Conan. Conan lives, he's a pooper. Like, that's the thing about it.

Isn't that before you come out of your exoskeleton into the world? You're like... Is it? I have no idea. Yeah, he's a pooper. Yeah, I think Conan would be perfectly happy just being in gray weather all day. And that is... I cannot think of anything more miserable, at least for me personally, than just having no sunshine. But he's not built for it. I remember when he moved to California, I was shocked. I thought that there's a man...

who probably shouldn't be allowed even to live here. It should be illegal. They should definitely see how Irish someone is before letting them into California. Because, you know, he's 100% Irish, which I think is, I don't want to say freakish, but it's insane. Who's in this country for as long as his family has been here and is 100% anything?

Has he done the 23andMe, do you know? That's how he knows. That's how he knows. He did a genetic, he did a DNA thing, and then he found out he's 100% Irish. Isn't that horrifying? It's really nuts. When you do that 23andMe, and they give you that map, and they have like little bullseyes everywhere, you're like, oh, I didn't know I had Finland. Who knew? But-

Just getting if it just said Ireland, Ireland, Ireland. Yeah, exactly. Have you done it? I've never done it, but my dad has. I did. I have to say it was really cool. I liked it. And it's just sort of confirmed everything I suspected, except it was a lot more like Viking Scandinavian stuff than I thought. Wow. Did you find family you didn't know existed?

Well, I did a show on NBC called Who Do You Think You Are? Oh, Lisa Kudrow's show. Lisa Kudrow's show, yeah. And it was amazing. And they put a team of renowned genealogists on you for as long as it takes. It took them two years. And a lot of times they pick a celebrity and

And, you know, they don't come up with anything that's interesting. And then they go, I'm sorry, there's not going to be a show. So I said, I'd like to do it. And then two years later, they say, we have your story and

You have to commit to, I think, eight travel days. They don't tell you where you're going. Wow. They only tell you you need a passport and you need to pack warm or cold clothing. That's it. And they film the entire thing. So it's really super exciting. And, you know, you go to the airport. You don't know where you're headed. You get on the plane and go, oh, I'm going to Washington, D.C. I wonder why. And it just unfolds from there. And I think you can get my episode on Hulu. But it's super moving. And it was...

That is so neat.

So I go to, I do this thing with Lisa Kudrow. I find out that my five-time great-grandfather, so my great-grandfather five times over, fought George Washington. Wow. When Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas Day, he charged my five-time great-grandfather's camp and took him prisoner. What?!

Yeah. Oh, my God. Is that bizarre? That's incredible. Oh, my God. Yeah. My grandfather was a Hessian soldier. So in Hessia, Germany, they would conscript all of the fighters and they were notoriously the fantastic fighters. And so England would add to their ranks in the war by paying for these mercenary warriors, my grandfather.

My grandpa was 19 at the time and he arrived via ship and they have the diary. They had the diary. The ship at one point languished in the Atlantic and the doldrums with no wind in the middle of the Atlantic for three weeks and arrived in New York Harbor in 1776. Oh my God, this just blew my mind. Isn't that crazy? So is that how your family came here?

That's how that part of the family came here. And then on the other branches of the family have been here even longer. Wow.

Wow. You know, as a child of immigrants, every time I hear a story like this, it blows my mind because it is so it's, you know, our, our family tree can only be traced back maybe two or at the most three generations. We're Armenian. Right. But my, my mom and dad are both from Istanbul. It's a beautiful city. My dad is from a

I don't know how close it is. He's from a village. My dad grew up in a village. And he grew up in abject poverty. And then he, at the age of, I think, four or five, moved to Istanbul. My mom was always in Istanbul. And then they came here. And they got married here, had my brother and I here. But we Armenians, we're survivors of genocide. So anyone who has a historical memory

you know, things like the Holocaust, genocide in them, obviously are almost impossible to trace their gene. I was going to ask you about the genocide because that would be, you know, that was unwarranted. And not many people know about that. It's kind of doesn't get the

sort of recognition it should, because it's just a horrible thing. It's horrible. And it's only, you know, it's not even that long ago. It's about, it was in 1915. And so, you know, a million and a half Armenians were killed. Greeks were also killed. Kurds were also killed. And it was horrific. And a lot of Armenians can trace

their existence to a survivor of it. So my grandfather and my grandmother, both on my father's side, were both orphaned because of it. So...

That side of my family just sort of stops there. We don't know anything about my grandma, who's Greek. We don't know anything about my grandpa's side. And then on my mom's side, it's my great-grandparents. So we go that far, and then it just sort of ends. And my dad did a DNA test, but I think he found some relatives that he shared some DNA with. But I don't know. I think he's a little...

hesitant to just reach out to them and see how we're related. Oh yeah. Listen, by the way, I don't want to do that. I mean, I mean, yeah, you don't want to, yeah, I don't need to meet, you know, uncle Freddie or whatever. But how incredible that you could trace your roots all the way back that far. That's amazing. We, we actually ended up going to the little town in Germany and,

where he was from. And there in the church, they had the records of births and deaths and marriages that traced my family back to 1600. And it's the original writing in the original church. And I was able to go to the house that he lived in, which still exists today.

It still exists. Still exists. That's incredible that it still exists. I mean, you know, my parents, when they went to Istanbul, they hadn't been there in 40 years, and it was completely different. People just built things where they grew up, and they tore down these old buildings. But the fact that that building is still there is pretty incredible. Oh, my God. And, you know, I mean, obviously you know this, but the thing that's so amazing about Istanbul is when you go over that amazing bridge over the Bosphorus. Mm-hmm.

You go from Asia to Europe. That's right. And it's so insane when you see like Syria, 100 miles. You're like Iran, 500, what the, what? This is nuts. It's nuts. I know. It's pretty crazy. And how about how beautiful that, I mean, the pines there, those beautiful, I just loved it. I could have sat by the Bosphorus and watched it.

you know, the ships go by all day long. You know what? I actually have dual citizenship with Turkey. So I went to Turkey when I was two. And so I don't remember much of it, but my mom thought we were going to go back all the time. So she got my brother and I dual citizenship. So I have a Turkish passport. Um,

But then they have mandatory military duty at 18. So for men. And so my brother was sort of called into the military. They're like, you're 18. It's time for you to serve it now. And like, you know, he had to write this letter just saying, I'm in, I'm, I live in America. I haven't been there in, you know, forever.

15 years and I I go to school out here so I can't go there and join the military it was it's very bizarre but I still have my Turkish passport it's pretty useless I haven't really been I'd like to go back you gotta go family there yeah

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I was looking up other interesting things about you. Oh. Yeah, look out. Does that strike terror into your heart? Because when people do it to me, I go, oh boy. This is where the interview takes a turn, right? When somebody says that, don't you think? It does when it's Rob Lowe, to be quite honest. I mean, the fact that you, you know, because you're such a huge celebrity. And for you to be like, I've learned this about you. It is mind-blowing. Yeah.

You're just buttering me up. That's not true. Your first crush was the guitarist Slash. That was your first crush? My first real, so my first, I would say my first actual crush as a kid was probably Jordan Knight from New Kids on the Block. That makes more sense. Slash is sort of the

He was my sexual awakening. He's the one who... I saw him in that November Rain video, and I just remember thinking, why is my body responding this way? Yes. And so, you know, Jordan Knight was my first crush. Slash was something deeper than that. Because it was...

we're not that different in age. Maybe when I'm older, I can actually be with Slash. And it's not like, because my brother had, you know, posters of girls in his room. He had, you know, like a lot of guys. And I think it's different for them. It's more lust. It's more like, ah, she's hot. I want a picture of her in my room. For me, it was one day I think I can be with Slash. One day I think he and I will be together. It's aspirational.

it's aspirational. And I think it's also, you know, we, I, you know, you write your name with their last name on your binder. You know, you think about long-term plans. It's not just, Oh, I want to, you know, get with him. It's, I want to have a long, meaningful relationship. At least that's how it was for me. And I had, you know, I, um,

I had The Rock up on my wall, too, because I got into wrestling for a little while. Oh, so you were an early adapter to The Rock. I was. Oh, I was, you know, back in the, you know, WWE days. I used to stay home on Thursday nights just so I could watch the Thursday Night Smackdown because I loved The Rock so much. But, you know, I never objectified the men I had crushes on. I didn't.

wanted to marry them and have their children and be in a relationship with them, which I think is sweet and it's noble. It's very sweet. I think I would like to imagine what your marriage would be like to Slash. I think it would be a disaster because I think that I would revere him so much and I would, you know, just...

I don't think I could ever be myself around him. Could you get him to stop wearing the hats? Absolutely not. I would never. That's who he is, Robin. How dare you even imply that I could change him? And as I'm wearing a hat, by the way, I'm wearing a horrible hat. No, that's a cool hat. What is that hat? Let's see what we got here. It looks like the evil eye. This is...

Oh, East Lake Golf Club. Okay. People in Atlanta will, that's where they play the FedEx Cup. Oh, okay. Do you golf? I do. I love golf. Yeah. People who golf love it. My sister-in-law loves golfing. It is, other than surfing-

As a recovering drug and alcohol addict, I can tell you that it is the only thing that is truly addicting. Like there's a, whatever that component is that is in golf is very much has an addictive thing that, and I love and play every sport. Right. I love skiing. I love tennis. I love, you name it, I'll go do it with you. I love it. Uh-huh. There's something that golf has that once, once,

It's like doing a drug that once you do too much of it, you're hooked. That's what golf is. And I don't know why that is, but it's very, very true. Well, you're competing against yourself, right? I mean, that's a big draw of it, I've heard, is that you're just... There's nobody else that you're competing against, really. You just want to better your score. You want to do better. You want to...

work on any and you're outside which is lovely you're outside and you can you're you know it is you're always you know i think it is you're always chasing the high that you can never catch so the best golfers in the world can can have a horrible round right and so no one ever masters it

And it's like surfing is the other thing. Same with surfing and surfing. You're chasing and hoping for that that one wave that you had that you remember from that time you were in Hawaii and you can never recreate it. You can just try as you as you might. You cannot recreate it. So are you chasing the high? Are you from Los Angeles originally? Yeah.

I'm from Dayton, Ohio, originally. The Midwest. You give me such SoCal vibes. Well, I've been here since I was 12. Yes. I feel like that's probably why. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I bought in full. Yes.

I fully have bought in. I mean, like, you know, today I was like, am I going to go, when I'm done, am I going to go surf or am I going to go golf? Yeah. Yeah. You're SoCal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have to be outside all the time. I am outside all day long. I hate being inside for anything. That's why you never age. Well, but they say that isn't the sun supposed to make you look like Ty Cobb's baseball mitt? Never heard that.

No, it's because you have the zest for life and you love life. And I think that that's actually that's better than any moisturizer you can buy. It's better than any sunscreen you could put on. I think that it's just

doing things and being outside and living life. I get that. I totally do. I do think that literally running, jumping, doing like think of the physical activities that kids do. They run, they jump. That's the thing that adults never do. When was the last time you jumped around? I can't even remember the last time. It's super. People don't realize this and it sounds stupid. It's not. It's super important to jump. When do you jump?

I jump when I train. I do a triple. You ever seen a triple jump in the Olympics? That crazy thing that looks like a boing, boing, boing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do that. Oh, my God. And I do frog leaps as well. Oh. And then, of course, you do box jumps. You jump up on the box and back. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But it's really important. I just don't jump. I mean, I will say there is this.

trampoline park not too far from me. And I went a few years ago and it was thrilling. It was thrilling. And I think... And I never looked at it the way that you say it, where you're like, you did this as a kid and you're almost...

you're, you, when you do the things you did when you were a kid, run, jump, you know, do just physical activity without even thinking about it. It is, you really do get transported back to when you were a kid. It was so much fun. We just slowly, but surely as we age, if we're not careful, um, our lives become smaller, you know, in that way. And, um,

There's a great Clint Eastwood story. I don't know how old Clint even is now. He's 90-something. He still directs two movies a year. Up until recently, he was skiing. He may still be skiing. Wow. And somebody asked him how he has managed to keep his vitality and all these years, and he said, I never let the old man in. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Oh, wow. Oh, that's a great, I think that's what my dad, my grandpa did. He was, he had so much vitality up until like maybe he was 92 and then he lived for another few more years. But I think once he got to that age, it did finally catch up to him and then he just couldn't fight it off anymore. And then eventually he died because you know, he was,

He went from being somebody who just mentally was never an old person to realizing his body disagreed with him. And then he became an old person and then he died. And it was, but he lived this long, beautiful life with so much energy and, and so much, he had so much activity in him and he was just always on the go. It was wonderful to watch. And I bet he was curious to the end. That's the other big, the physicality we talked about, but the other part of it is he,

Because when your curiosity goes, you're gone. Yes. Yeah. He wanted an iPhone. I remember he really wanted an iPhone. There you go. And we were like, you know, we were worried. Can he use one? Can he do it? And then eventually we gave him an old one just to see. And you could see him grab it. And he just was pressing it, trying to figure it out. And, you know, I don't know who he was going to text or call or what he was going to yell. He was going to slide in some DMs.

I don't know what he was going to do, but he really he saw that everybody else had one. And he thought, if everybody else has one, I should have one, too. And I really respected that about him. It was it was great. It was sweet. I OK, so you obviously started as Conan's assistant. We started your that's how you started your affiliation with Conan. Yes. So let's talk about being a Hollywood assistant, shall we? Oh, let's let's talk. Let's do a deep dive on this. Yeah.

Because there are so many iterations of that job, right? And there's like, depending on who you work for, it's a different skill set. It's a different thing. Like, it's very different being Conan's than it would be being, you know, Keanu Reeves's versus whatever the hell. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. What, I guess what I'm asking, first of all, I heard a rumor that there's actually a union being put together of Hollywood assistants. Really? Yes. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Okay. And if you guys go on strike, show business is over. Everything shuts down. I think that they finally realized that. And I think that that's a big part of it. So when I first graduated college, I really wanted to work in television. And people said, work as an agent's assistant.

because they will abuse you verbally and sometimes physically throw things at you. And you will get a thick skin. And then you pay your dues, then you get to do whatever you want. And I remember thinking, that sounds awful. I don't want to do that. And I...

I just, I mean, you've probably seen the evolution of it where before, you know, everybody was like, I have to put up with whatever I need to put up with because I am putting in my dues and I am going to be somebody who, you know, I, I just want them to know how serious I am about this. And then now if you're a shitty boss, you get called out on a social media site and then it's snowballs. Then other people like, yeah, they're terrible. They're terrible. They're terrible. And I think that, uh,

Working for Conan has taught me someone can be hyper successful, someone can be really good at their job, someone can be a celebrity and still be very kind to the people who work for them. And I realized that maybe it's not that these people are saying, oh, you have to pay your dues. I think that shitty bosses are typically shitty people. Yeah.

And they were abused so they think they can abuse. And I really hope that there's a point where the cycle stops. Yeah, for sure. And you're right. I've seen there used to be it's a 20 it's a 24 hour job. If they call you at three o'clock in the morning, you got to. It's like, what? What? We're not working for the this isn't the White House. There's nuclear issues. You know, this isn't NORAD. Right.

That's so true. Some people act like they're saving the world. It's like you're making, you're creating fun entertainment. You know, it is, yes, are there billions of dollars behind the industry? Of course there is. But at the same time, you can make money.

good product and not make people just want to go to the bathroom and sob because like, look, if, if Madonna wakes up in the middle of the night and goes to the bedside table and the Evian is gone, you don't have to go to smart and final at three o'clock in the morning. You don't have to do that. You don't. And I think that like,

The idea of, oh, you have to pay your dues. You have to show you're serious. I mean, isn't that what we did in college? We went to college. We pulled all-nighters. We did internships. We worked part-time. I would leave the house at 7 in the morning. I wouldn't come back till 11 at night. And it was just... I was constantly working. So by the time they get to you, isn't that already they've paid their dues? You've interviewed them. You know they're good. Just treat them nicely. And it won't...

And I think that's the thing. And it is a really important job. There are a lot of people out there who just could not function without their assistance. Yeah. And it's twofold, I've found. There are people who, for whatever reason, developmentally, who they actually are at their core, cannot or don't want to navigate the world in a way that most

average human beings can and do. They're those people. And I'm not judging them. They're out there. And I can absolutely fall into that category sometimes. But really what it is, is like the it's the amount of incoming income

You know, like I'm doing, I do two podcasts. I do two network television shows. Right. I write books. It's like, it's just, it's air traffic control is the way when people ask, what does Sarah, who is my assistant, she's air traffic control and I'm LAX. Yeah.

Yes, that's exactly it. I think that's the best way to describe it. I do. And Sarah probably does a lot for you that if she just, if she was abducted by aliens today, it would be really hard for you to get all that info that she has and is controlling for you and figure it out. And it's because you're just a very, very busy human being. And I think that I understand why assistants exist, but you are

I can already tell you're probably just a very nice person to her. You don't mistreat her. You understand her value. And I think that a lot of people don't do that. Yeah. Well, listen, for a long time, show business was one of the few legitimate businesses that tolerated bad behavior. Like, you'd never get away with it in banking. No. Or like at GM. I work at Pfizer. I'm going to throw a stapler at you. What the fuck?

I know. It was almost like HR didn't exist. And it was almost hedonistic from what I've heard. Here's my single greatest assistant story I've ever heard. It was my buddy who wanted to work for a big Hollywood producer, action movie producer. Doesn't get any bigger than this person in the 80s and 90s. The number one Hollywood action producer. And

He goes and meets him. It's pouring rain. It's on the set. And the guy shows up late, the producer, and says, um,

I'm going to go. I'll be right back and we'll meet. Well, the producer forgets about the kid and goes out and he has a dinner and comes back. Two hours later, the kid's still standing in the pouring rain in the exact same exact same spot. And the person like, what are you doing here? He goes, well, you said we were going to meet. So you said wait here. So I waited here. Oh, my God. And he goes, you're you're OK by me, kid. Let's see. He has he has him on for a trial week. He says, I need you to go get me a diet Pepsi.

He goes to craft service, which is where they keep all of the snack foods on a set. I need Diet Pepsi for the producer. I think he goes, we only have Diet Coke. And he was smart enough to know that this was not going to be his finest moment. But he figures, I'm going to bring him the Diet Coke and then go get him a Diet Pepsi. So at least I've brought him something. Right. He goes and gives this producer the Diet Coke. He takes a sip and goes, what is this? He goes, well, it's Diet...

it's Diet Coke they don't have Diet Pepsi but I'm going to go to 7-11 and get you this and the producer this is a true story throws it on the ground in front of him and goes okay let me tell you what happened to me if I did what you just did to me if I go into the president of the studio and the president of the studio says go get me Bruce Willis I don't come back to him with fucking Corbin Bernson you just brought me Corbin Bernson

That's delusional. That's crazy. Oh my, Corbin Bernson. Isn't that an amazing story? Oh my God, that's incredible. Oh, I love that story. ♪

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

qualifying plan required wi-fi were available on select us airlines deposit and hilton honors membership required for 15 discount terms and conditions apply you must have a lot like you know stories you've heard or even seen how people abuse their assistance or yeah i mean you've probably seen a lot of that yeah i mean i'm lucky that i mean i i never i try to avoid those folks so i i never had an agent like that or a manager like that and

have worked with very few producers like that, but we all know who the, the ironic thing was, we always, we knew who they were. Everybody knew. Yeah. I always equated it, especially with agents where, you know, I heard when I was coming up, I heard that they, you know, this agent at one of the agencies threw a full blown printer at his assistant, you know, hang on, don't move. I'm picking it up. Stay right where you're sitting. Wait, hang on. Hang on.

It's true. It happened in the blink of an eye. He unplugged it. He wheeled it over. There's nothing I could do. I couldn't get out of the way. I couldn't even protect myself. So I just sat there waiting for him to do it. I even helped him pick up the printer. I know. I think that, well, that's part of the thing. So when I was writing this book, I think there's so much...

so much content that talks about the assistant who gives everything to their job, just sacrifices their mental wellbeing and their physical wellbeing. And I never did that. And so I thought it might be refreshing to just write a story about somebody who, or write about how my experience has been working for someone who is very famous and very beloved and also is just a joy to work for. And I had an assistant who,

that was completely the opposite of what people think being a Hollywood assistant is. Yeah, and the book was a big hit for you. Well, I still can't believe I'm saying this. I'm a New York Times bestseller. Something is wrong with this world, I think, that that exists. And they can never take it away from you, as they say. They can never take it away from me. I mean, I was blown away by how many people...

responded to it. By the way, it's a real, the New York Times bestseller thing is a real thing. So, so, so listener beware when they say bestselling author, notice what they didn't say.

They didn't say New York Times bestselling author. Right, right. And therein lies the rub. Someone told me, I have to say I'm a New York Times bestseller. I don't just say I'm a bestseller. I'm a New York Times bestseller. That's right. Because it apparently adds a different level of legitimacy to it, which I didn't even know. I mean, the whole book world is something I never knew anything about. It's a really fascinating world.

Their bestseller list is the least likely to be gamed.

Like if you make it onto that list, those numbers are, it's like the gold standard of, it's like a Nielsen rating. Like they, there's, is vetted in a way that other lists are not. Oh, I didn't know that. There's this, you know, I know that there's a system to how they choose it or how they figure out.

The lists and everything. And I wonder if it changed a lot over the years because of Audible and Kindles and e-readers and things like that. I'm sure that they figured how to incorporate all that into it. But yeah, it's crazy. It is. It's crazy. It's exciting when you get that like...

Wait, what? What did I debut at? I think yours debuted at number six, if I'm not mistaken. It was number six. Well, mine was on the advice and how-to list, which apparently is, there's so many advice and how-to books that are actually legitimate and actually give proper advice. Mine is just silly. But I was below...

the subtle art of not giving a fuck and above how to not be racist by, and I was like, something's, something's wrong. There's, you know, there's, or something's very right. I look at the way I look at it. I go, no, no, no. That is exactly the world. That's the world I want to live in. Yeah. I, it was, it was pretty incredible. And I remember we were all homesick and,

Me and my husband and my two boys who are both one, we were homesick and I was holding one of them and he was squirming a lot. And I got the call from my publishers and they told me you're on the bestseller. You're on the New York times bestsellers. And I was like, Oh my God. And I started to get overwhelmed. And then we hung up and my son just like screamed.

smeared all of his snot all over my arm and I thought okay you know he's keeping me humble he's letting me know it doesn't matter right now you're mom and I'm sick so just take care of me by the way that never ends they may be minor 28 and 26 and they're still rubbing their snot on me

Every way they can. I was hoping there would be a time when that just ended, but I guess not. That's what they're here for. That's true. That's true. And the other thing, oh, I want to ask you about is you're a huge fan of Cher, who is also Armenian. Yes, she is. She's an icon. I'm just completely bowled over by her confidence. You've probably met her a bunch of times. Do you know her? Are you friends with her? I have known Cher for a long, long, long time. We don't, we aren't like...

longtime friends, but we've had dinner together. I've been to her house, you know, over the years I've spent time with her. Yeah. Oh my God. You know, when I first started working for Conan, I was like, please be friends with Cher. Just, I want to meet her. And you know, he's got a lot of really great friends. I mean, he's, you know, close friends with Greg Daniels, who, you know, it's the reason the office exists, the American office. And you know, it's huge. The friends, the people that he knows and parks and recreation. But yeah,

I was like, just be friends with Cher. Can you just know Cher? And, you know, I don't know how many times they've met, if they've ever met. I'm sure they have. But she's such an icon. And she is the only concert I've gone to with my mom in, like, the last 20 years. Wow. My mom and I went to her Vegas residency with my best friend and her mom. And the four of us had a weekend in Vegas together.

And it was just so, so much fun. And, you know, my mom and I have always had this sort of

generational and cultural gap. And I feel like Cher is the one thing that we had in common was we both just love her. And I have a big portrait of Cher when you first walk into my house, she's looking right at you. And I've just always been drawn to how confident she is and how just her career has spanned so many decades. And I just, I'm in complete awe of her. She's my dream guest. I would love for her to be on the podcast. I mean, can you imagine the story she must have?

Oh my God. I know. I feel like, oh, I could just, I wouldn't have to even say a word. I would just sit there and just be like, just listening all day. She must be incredible to. What I, what I appreciate about Cher and people like her is when they are exactly who you hope they are. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Like, like Tom Hanks is that way is like, like, oh,

You're Tom Hanks. You really are Tom Hanks. Do you know what I mean? Because there are other people you meet and you're like, they're like, whatever. I mean, they're perfectly nice, but you're not like, do you know what I'm saying? I feel like you're like that too. Like just, you know, from your podcast and listening to your podcast and like just, you are who I, you're exactly who I thought you would be. And that is really lovely. And I think that, you know, Tom Hanks, you share, you know, Conan, you guys have, you

license to...

difficult and to be rude. And people will just be like, I just got shoved in the arm by Tom Hanks and I don't care because it's Tom Hanks, you know? Yeah. Or kicked. And I, and it, and the fact that you guys are not that way is just so refreshing. And I don't know how some people stay humble and others just completely lose themselves. I don't know how, I don't know what happens. I don't know how that. And you must see that too. I mean,

On a show like Conan's, like, first of all, the podcast, you guys have been doing a lot longer than I have. And then the show, the actual TV show, multiple guests, multiple days and on and on and on. You're going to run. You've seen it all. You've seen guests who are, as Lorne Michaels would say, they're friends of the show. Like, they're people who you just know are going to come on and crush it and are great. And then there are those people you're like, oh, my God, you know who's on today? Yeah.

Can you believe it? Right. Right. Yeah. Oh, exactly. And it's surprising. I don't, I'm not, I'm not going to list any names or say any names, but it is surprising how many, you know, when I, when, when people ask me who are the rude celebrities, um,

It's never who you think it's going to be. That's right. You know, I, in fact, without naming names, I will say that it's surprising how many younger people give into their fame much more easily than people who've been doing it for many, many years, you know? And I think that that's the thing that's really blown me away is that that's what I would, that's what I would say is that it's, it's the younger, it's some of the younger guests that we've had that have just been amazing.

So out of touch. I had it on this podcast. I won't mention a name, but I had somebody very, very young

on the podcast and we did, we did the podcast and then their team, by the way, just the fact that I got a call from their team was not a good sign and they wanted to reedit it. They, they wanted to edit it. Oh, they wanted to my podcast. I was like, I'm sorry. I just had Oprah Winfrey on here. Yeah. I said, I said, Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah. I said, Chris Pratt. And this guy wants to reedit. Were you mental? Yeah.

And by the way, and the person's a perfectly nice person, but what it is is it's insecurity, inexperience, and fear.

And so, and then you let the quote unquote experts into the room. Yeah. And then the experts are, you know, they want to create a reason for their job. Right. Right. So that we have to protect you. We went in there and we don't remember. And it's just the worst. It's so interesting to me how many people are coddled by their reps now. And like-

And I do think that it's what you say it is. It's that people are justifying their salaries. So they feel like they have to do something and you realize you're just, you're overstepping at this point. It's ridiculous.

it's great when you're around people who have had enough longevity and success that they truly don't give any fucks. They just, they're who they are and it's just, it's so refreshing. It's so fun. And you know it when you see it. I mean, you totally know when you're up against somebody who's like, oh, they are so down to clown. I love it. Yeah. But I also think it's,

The, you know, people, I mean, when we talk about celebrity, you know, I think that the idea of conventional celebrity might not exist anymore.

as we remember it to be just because there's so much entertainment that's fragmented now. So people like, you know, I'm, I'm just bringing back to what, who we're talking about, like you and Conan and share and Tom Hanks, you know, you guys had solidified yourselves so much in the entertainment industry and you found a way to be relevant throughout your entire career and to reinvent yourselves and to like find other projects that talk to different generations. And I think that,

you've gained that longevity like that. But now, because not as many people might watch some of the movies or know a lot of the actors like they used to, I feel like that level of celebrity might be much more difficult to attain. I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Well, I think it certainly seems that way because of exactly what you say. Like there can be a YouTube star

or a TikTok star, or an Instagram person who has way more followers than me. Right. But I don't know who they are. And I could walk out on the street and I promise you, you know, if I talk to 50 people, 48 of them won't know. Right. And then there are other people that it's just, fame has absolutely changed. And it's social media is what really did it. And the fragmentation of

the glut of programming. I mean, when I did my first TV series in 1979, there were 62 shows in entertainment period. 62. There were three networks, Graham. By the way, the reason I know it was 62 because we were 62nd. We were always the last place show. Always. Always the last place show. Oh, well, that's why your career tanked, Rob. I started off with a bang. I didn't know where to go but up.

But now there are more than 62 outlets. Right. Right. It's cool in a way because you do get... Like, if you're interested in, you know, a very specific type of entertainment, you can find it. And that's very cool. That is true. And you can also find...

you know, comedians or entertainers who speak to you specifically and they could be yours. And it's, it's, it's something that like millions and millions of other people might not share with you, which is nice. Uh, you know, but on the flip side, there is that, that, that big change that's happening where a lot of people think that they're famous, but when they do go out into the world, uh,

you know, they're, they're not as famous as they might think they are. I mean, people, people have said to me, they're like, what's it like to be famous? And I'm like, no, it's, there's nothing like working for someone who's famous to show you that you're not famous, you know, that like,

You know, when I go out into the world, if, you know, just because, you know, I've been in a video with Conan that's gotten, let's say, 20 million views. If I go out into the world and people see me, they'll be like, oh, she kind of looks familiar. Is she so-and-so's cousin? Did I go to high school with her? That's amazing. That's, that's, that's, you know, so I'm like, that's not famed as far as I know. You know, that's, that's not what it is. It's just, uh, she kind of looks familiar. I don't know. Maybe she's not, she's not.

Well, then you have you you're with somebody who just physically like Conan. There's very few people in the world that look like Conan. Right. I mean, like like Conan walking down the street with Conan is like walking down the street with a with like a zoo animal. Like you can't see. They're like there's no hiding. Big red. No, there is. Absolutely. He could wear a hat, a mask.

You know, he can wear sunglasses. Half his face can be covered and I will be walking with him and someone will say, hey, Conan, there's no way to hide who he is. No way. So just every single time. She is delightful. And I had such a good time. That's why I do this. I have such a good time. I mean, where else am I going to have a conversation as wide ranging as Jay Leno has eyes like a Siberian husky malamute?

That Conan O'Brien is a pooper all in the same podcast. That's why we do it. You never know what's going to happen. And I, and it takes great guests like that to, to, to make it happen. And I hope you guys had as much fun as, as I did doing that. All right. Just one more thing before we end today's episode, let's check the low down line. Hello. You've reached literally in our low down line where you can get the low down on all things about me, Rob Lowe, three, two, three,

570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hey, Rob. This is Mary from Long Island. I've listened to your podcast and there's multiple conversations about multi-camera versus single camera. And of course, we can all understand what that means. However, is there any way you can give us some examples with TV shows so I can truly comprehend what's going on?

the difference? Well, that's a great question. Thank you. By the way, I didn't realize that clearly that's some kind of an obsession with mine. If you're picking up the fact that I've talked about it a bunch. So yeah. So, um, a single camera comedy would be the office would be parks and recreation would be new girl would be 30 rock multi-camera would be big bang theory. Um, all, all of those, uh, it's really anything with a laugh track, frankly.

because Phil Rosenthal put it better than anything. A multi-camera show is shot with multi-cameras, but it is a play. That's why you have the audience, live audience or a laugh track. It's a play put on film. Single camera comedies are no different than movies or other television shows. They look the same. They're shot sort of the same. Multi-camera, you know,

Mary Tyler Moore, Mork & Mindy, Taxi, Frasier, Friends, multiple cameras, audience. They all look very much alike because you're limited in how you can shoot them. There's an audience in front of you, so you know you're not going to be running around like a crazy person. So that's how you know the difference. And of course, if you've listened to me a lot, you know that I bemoan the fact that current multi-camera cameras

TV shows are just not good at all. And I don't know why that is because there's no reason. And I would love to do a great one. Anyway, thank you. Nice question. Keep listening. Next week, we will be right here. We're not going anywhere. We're here. If it's Thursday, there's an episode coming out of this podcast.

So be sure to download the whole season, please. That would be very good. And then you won't miss anything. And until then, I will see you on the next Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Grahl. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Salatara for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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