769: Alex Cox, Vision Pro Champion
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Well, on the mac power users, i'm David Sparks. Steven hacket is out on sabbatical, but he will be back next week. In the meantime, while the lunatics are running the asylum, I got to invite one of my favorite people to the show. Welcome, alex cox.

Hello, i'm so excited to be here. IT feels like we're having a little party and dad is at home so we can do what?

Yeah yes and no, because this is the problem. Stephen always is the guy who pushes the button and publishing the show. And i've been doing that for the last month and every sunday I feel like i'm defusing a bomb like if I don't push the right button and the show doesn't go out, dad Stephen is gona like, I don't know he's going to show up in a black helicopter bust in my house and let the winner let me have IT so I am nervous but I am getting IT done. We've got to show out with some great guess and and you're the capper, alex.

It's you that i'm so happy that dad is coming back but yeah definitely have to get all of the furniture back in place so that he'll take another break because I hope that his sebek al has .

been wonderful. Yeah, sure. I gotta clean up all, you know, the dog stuff in the corner and you know, yet view all those things, you know, when the parents are gone and you got to take care of all before they get back. The reason I wanted, have you done? And just the fact that you're just one of my favorite nerds is you have gone super hard at apple .

vision pro h, yeah, yes. APP up there's dozens of us.

dozens yeah that's a good way to put IT and you we've covered IT on that posers a bit, but not enough. And when I heard you know how much you're using vision pro, I like that's what I want on the show. I want somebody like really in the weeds with IT who can tell us where it's helping and where it's not helping.

And we able to talk some apps will talk and I we got a home and to stuff and outline today, but we're going to focus on the vision pro and how you're using IT. So so let's start there, alex. Actually, I got ahead of myself. I X tell folks who you are for for those who don't know you.

I just assume everybody new alexa t IT, if if so, thank you. And if not, sorry in advance, i'm alex cox. I'm a producer in chicago and I use the title producer because that means whatever you need done, usually in a techway or an events way, I can do IT for you, but I am a full time independent pod caster mostly, which is why i'm here and why I spend a lot of my time spatial computing because I think that's the new way we're going to do. And so maybe podcasting, but we'll get to that .

later yeah I mean, there is a lot going on, especially for someone who's doing vision pro, right? And what is your what is your current apple gear?

I'm a kind of influx right now because I went down hard on a fall and my beloved and one macbook pro with, I should say, I head and one max chip in IT basically .

broken half way, broken half.

I was I was walking with IT open and fell and so IT did face down and then I was no so then I fell on IT and then I was in two pieces. So apple care was apparently doesn't cover um it's with this whole saga. IT doesn't cover like a certain extent of damage and what I am trying to figure out.

But in the meantime, I don't technically have my own mac I am using my spouse is occasionally. And m one arms are in m two macbook air, which you guys have talked about this at length. One wonderful computer, just fantastic. Be excited in love apple silicon. Um but when I fell down, I also totally destroyed my iphone fifteen pro, which was more of obama because that's how I take all .

of my videos.

especially with special video. You know, I really want those two lenses. So now i'm actually using a pixel three because is the only phone I had lying around. That's one of the IT was it's the pink one with a little orange button. Uh, it's the smallest phone i've had in a while, but I still works really well.

So in volume in this period of saving up for a new laptop and or to fix my laptop and to fix or get a new phone, i'm just chilling with my vision pro and a magic keyboard and track pad. And that's kind of the main way that I get things done. And when when I told the beginning you're like all wow, you're deep in and I should say that, I do use a lot of webb based software。 So i've been editing in riverside, which is a sort of decent APP that allows U R.

Service, relates podcasting service that you can record podcasts and and if you want, like your screen sharing IT does the whole juba and it's is fine, but you can also add IT online. And for audio, it's not too bad. However, you need to use a chromium browser erp, so cannot do IT in my vision pro and i'd need to either do that at a library or uh borrow a mac but that's kind of all I have in terms of hardware um either. Oh, I should say no, I my my microphone. I forget the number .

of i've never seen and I can tell you that because .

it's like the erman, the german bike and a little scarlet to by to that. I don't never know how long i've had these guys, but I love them.

Okay, so we had to back government here because you had a fall that your computer landed on the wrong side, and then you landed on IT breaking IT in two pieces, and you destroyed your phone.

Yeah, are you? OK, are you? Oh yeah, i'm fine. yeah. My stuff broke up. fall. Yeah.

that's good. I mean, IT served this purpose because I I talked in the show frequently how I think this apple silence is gna last forever. But I will say, if you drop your laptop on the wrong side, and then you fall breaking into two pieces, the apple silicon m, uh, still may not work.

That may be a thing that causes them right? But at the same time I was thinking, there are so many people running headless laptops, you know, if that we could be teached, that we are thing where are connected in ipad to a headless same one. Does your can you have any idea if your computers capable of that at this point? Or is this just really a bad show?

IT did that for IT worked with that for a while and with the um old ordinal deb less expensive studio. I think it's just called the studio display right um the one that doesn't F X D R. And that worked for a couple weeks and then IT just went a couple IT is is IT .

make more sense to just buy A I mean, a new one or I used them one as opposed to get a fixed? I would think that is probably cheaper.

David. I'm an independent pod caster .

and I mean, very supposed to getting a fixed that I think I would probably be here's .

the problem. You're right. They last forever.

So there's a lot of yeah .

there's a lot of in a intel max out there for some reason. You need an intel mac best time to get IT stock up on IT. Ah it's wild. But I I mean, I been able to go all in on my vision pro that the story of my apple vision pro. I try really hard not to say the vision pro because I know that people at apple really didn't want an article in front of IT for some reason.

But it's okay. We can still here that the maccaroons rules are that IT is acceptable either way. So you're .

yeah I I say A V P, and people are like alien versus predictor and like, oh, no, sorry, sorry, but I have been kind of a die hard fan of ambient computing, special computing and just pass through technology and general also V R. But to a bigger extent, kind of the concept of being surrounded by a computer and whatever way that may be yeah.

when I talked about that before they released IT, I know you are very excited about IT and this idea of of spac computing. So so maybe the thought is your computer got correct, but you're really not that bent out of shape about IT because you just wanted do the vision for stuff anyway.

Oh yeah, I like my like my life top. I am not bent out of shape and I had no, I do not recommend this to anyone.

My the only reason I have a vision pro is because I made a joke on wine and about, hey, are you guys out there? You're all investing millions in this, the metaphor stuff, why not just invest in one person and I might make something and then a bunch of people on the formerly twitter, now x, the everything up and mastered on basically bought me a vision pro, which is just ultimate privilege ever. So and I was like this overnight joke.

And so I felt a sort of duty to the kind para else to really explore this hardware, not because of any actual sense of a true like responsibility or stress just so people know yeah, but I am really, really passionate about this space. And not many folks are talking about IT, but there's a reason for for that. I don't think people should buy the vision pro right now. Don't do what i'm doing. IT is not recommended, but IT works yeah and I am sure that .

even there's long people listening that aren't going to buy vision. Probably they are curious about how you're using IT and and that's gonna be a big focus today is yeah you can actually get your word done with one of these things and a lot of the work, not everything, I just depends on what you do.

But but before we get into the the needy, greedy, what is your vision pro set up and what straps are you using? Do you have keyboard? Give us the skin. I here .

I am using the solo top three printed dying, if you will. It's it's an adapter that allows you to use the solo net band on the or sorry, you can use the solo net band with your vision pro and then put a second one on the top. So instead of using the dual strap, which is fine, I guess, but IT doesn't look very nice.

He just looks the same as like any other had that and the just guard the amazing stitching on the this band and looking at my old bands right now and it's just gorgeous and I really was like, okay, there's if i'm going to apple something, I need to really, really apple IT. So I got the. Got this thing that allows you to wear to and IT just lifts IT off your head more and it's much, much more IT.

It's much more comfortable. And I ve found that IT is more comfortable for me than even the dull strap. But that's not true of everyone.

And I think one of the fAilings are actually of vision pro is aside from the things that all the folks about in terms of of Price, like if you are going to have something this expensive, IT should be the most personal thing. You own cousins literally on your face and headsets. Are you really, really hard like people, there's not like one pair of glasses that people wear.

And well, the meta ribands, I suppose. So in terms of the most important hardware that I have, it's this solo top, a adapter and I use my hand. I've tried IT .

to use my home or more because I also have the solo top adapter on Stevens recommendation. And this thing is really a game changer. I me if you're going to spend the kind of money that you spend on a vision pro, there's two straps that comes with the one goes around the back of your head and it's like you said, it's a very well made strap.

It's GTA dialog you spend IT to come of like tight IT up. But the way you're holding on your face at that point is a by pressing IT into your face hard enough that IT doesn't fall off that you know you've gotten like present pretty hard and you feel that after a while and then they've got the kind of the orthodontics retainers strap thing that goes across the top in the back, which is OK. But IT clearly didn't get the design IT ensure that almost feels to me like that one was added at the last minute because they realized as good as that net a band.

Is that strapping the thing to your face for an existing od time isn't very comfortable. And so the one day, the second one they make, I think doesn't fit very well. It's very fitting and I can never really get IT quite to fit me right.

And Stephen said, you've got to try the solo top thing. I think I was like fifteen box or something. It's three day inactive. There's not a whole lot to IT, but then you gotta buy a second nip pan, which is like a hundred books. But like I said at this point, you're already in for the cost of a vision pro, so spend the extra hundred and fifteen dollars because then IT is like IT is just a very comfortable experience because you've got this, my band across the topic, your head in the back, both of which have independent dials. So you just twist the omb to get IT to go up and down and forward and backward and you get you just get such a Better fit. And um getting this in doing this makes me think that there was a fail at apple like the the the native band should have been this comfortable and easy and I don't know what what would have looked like, but I feel like for the Price point of this product that something went wrong there like they didn't get the band right.

I so wish that we had the ability to buy what the initial reviewer, I mean everyone who got a press demo when I was announced IT had the amazing net band. And then a second one at the the topic was kind of the hybrid of the dual loop and the solo loop. But yes, I I hope I don't you know, I don't want anyone to get fired at apple.

But something catastrophe hic had happened just like mine pushes so hard in my face that leaves like little intense. And I mean, come on, how many people wore this in advance? Like ten, it's it's a bar and there are folks who, instead of fiddling with the straps, just have separate light seals, which would be more expensive than another band of so it's it's, uh it's gna also allow you to use your vision pro more and become a weird like me.

Go for a, if you own a vision pro in your listening. Ai, I have just officially cost you money. I put on link in the notes, but I give this a whole harder endorse.

And I I thought I was silly and IT looks a little so late but um man, IT is so comfortable and I watched movies. I I like you. I spent a lot of time in apple vision pro and fit has never been in issue since I purchased this is just like it's like a solve problem. Now it's unfortunately that I didn't come with the product.

but but you can solve the problem. You say IT looks silly, but all like you said, if you're in with the money, you're also in with looking kind of .

weird 是 alright？ What about the keyboard or track pad using in that?

So the magic keyboard, magic track pad, and that's kind of my only keyboard and mouse ever now, even when i'm using a real mac, if you will, just because with the changes in in the sort of context of E T M. Computing, I still don't want extra friction as much as i've loved mechanical people board keyboards in the past. Uh, this is the way to go. Still lightning. But as of this week, maybe that will change.

Yeah yeah apple release and we didn't mention that. But as we're recording the show, apple was having this week of in for and they are released in in a bunch of new hardware and and including this week they released the USB c versions of the keyboard, mouse trackpad I want to have. Many people will just buy that because they just are sick of lightning.

I'm gonna hang in there. You know, I am. O, K. I can keep a lightning cable to charge my mouse, keyboard and track pad. I also use the apple stuff, but the but I I I don't mind, but but I am sure at some point whenever I upgrade these, I will be happy to to give them that cable. So you using the same keyboard for apple vision pro plus, using IT with your with max and other devices? Or or is that just certain dedicated to the apple vision for hardware?

It's solely dedicated to the p vision pro I or or apple vision pro when I still had a mac and presumably in the hopefully near future with a macbook. Um I would just use the vision pro as the best monitor possible. And I I the the other reason I use the magic keyboard is is the same on all of the well as similar to an apple a laptop as you can get, so as a little friction as possible.

MIT totally makes sense. Any other special hardware for your vision for set up?

No, I thought that there would be more accessories, and I think I will hope that there would be more accessories. But I just keep the battery a pack in my pocket. I had a little clip on thing that I was, you know, IT turned IT into one of those like cool dad clipper, but IT ended state .

the night.

yeah, yeah, yeah. But IT just ended up being easier to sit in my pocket or on my test padding.

Do you have your keep? Ard must do you have them attached to each other or are using either?

I tried that, but IT IT felt like OK, i'm going to be moving all of the virtual stuff around. I am okay with moving the physical .

stuff around. O, yeah, with a battery for me like you. I actually I slide the battery down my shirt so the cable because I do walk around, let the dog out and stuff on wearing IT and I don't want the cable snacking on like a door handle or something so i'll slide the battery damage or and into pocket.

And that just fine. I have yet to talk to a two battery vision pro owner. Are you one? Do you have multiple batteries? Are you good with one?

No, I thought, well, okay, I suppose maybe I am, if you can't the the parable battery that sometimes I put into IT, I do the same thing where I put the table down. I'd actually put IT like down the back of my shirt, kind of like A A love mike. And I pretty much are the same thing every day.

So the uh the battery the vision for battery left pocket third party about right side so and then iphone or well, now my pixel front right pocket because so much of a vision pro is with muscle memory. That's also how my hardware is too. No but i'm just realizing that, uh h weird.

That's cool though I guess yeah and I get enough like I get enough out of the battery to watch a movie and that about IT. And anyway, when I work and if I do a lot of writing in there, i'm never in there long enough to kill the battery. And then I just make a have a practice of what i'm done.

I charged the battery up separately. But you can, like you said, always plug the battery into a into a court. You know, apple talks about like what you can get A A second battery if you need.

But the thing is to to change batteries, you have you, you have to shut the device down. You can't just like that is the power. There is no battery and the to fight. So like if you wanted, I got swap a battery, you can't because IT IT dies as soon as you want plug that battery. And so that's a thing.

But and if you wanted to change IT or the reason I have a another USB battery is if I am taking photos and videos so you need that able stuff. Ah I guess I would have multiple batteries if that was the case. But no, another baffling decision. But here we are.

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I'm doing most of the basic computing tasks, suppose you could say. But the thing that I have really leaned into IT is trying to make my entire apartment into a computer. And there's a number of apps you can try to do that with.

And I suppose when I say i'm trying to make my entire apartment into a computer, it's embracing the aspect of special computing that is more visual because when I think of spain, computing edge do embrace, like apples, vision of IT. But I also have kind of this idea of ambient computing, which is the visual aspect of IT. That's vision pro. But also, theory is kind of, you know, just over here, and people forget to that you can control vision a lot of vision pro with theory and I end up doing that almost as much as the um the hand tracking controls. So it's sort of like, alright, if i'm going to be if the input is going to be possible, all of the output should be visual.

And right now i'm using an APP called magic rim, which is a way to kind of make your entire space into this almost like hex ago, not quite matrix sea, but weird the way that, uh, it's always letting you know it's kind of like apple's own environments, uh, that you are vision pro, but IT also what has more of a pass through? Look, do do listers know what, uh, apple environments are? How would you describe those? Just a the default immersive environment? Uh, I suppose I don't. I always come across people. They either know ever almost everything about vision pro or nothing at all.

Yeah so let me let me just be explain from my fish point. So by default, the vision pro is what you call pastor. The world is overlaid on your room.

And that's one of the big selling points of IT is that they have very, very high quality screens. So IT looks believably like the room. IT doesn't look like you're looking through a piece of glass. It's definitely of a screen, but IT looks good enough. And the and as a result, like when people walk in the room, you can see them in addition to all your windows and apps.

Like when I first got IT, I was sit in here working on IT, and my daughter snuck into the room and he thought that, you know, like like most of these devices that I was lost in the world of you, the matrix, and that SHE was going to, I think she's gone to speak about me, and I try and scare me. I jump scare me, you know. And so he was just creeping closer and closer to me and cat feet.

And the whole time I see you out of the side of my eyes, and finally I just turned my head and and say, I can see you and SHE SHE jumped, yeah, yeah. So that in left the default of the vision pro. But they also have the environments and they don't have enough of them at some point.

I'm gonna win about that during the show, probably, but it's a it's an immersive environment like they have one of the top of a mountain, hawaii have one in your semi. They've got some that are just kind of blue spaces and things where you you twist a dial and the external world disappears to you, which can be quite useful. And you know it's an option you have because you this thing you strap on your face.

So that's an environment. But magic room, is this the up called magic room living environment? yes.

okay. So what does this do? I've never heard .

of that before. IT is it's kind of build actually as more of an an entertainment APP. You walk around your area and they say wait for the magic reveal. But really it's just changing an area to a different color.

It's it's just sort of a good distraction that is not quite like something that's oh, I mean, there's the environment like barbora is my kind of like chill out play vision pro game area. My work like hard course work environment is the moon. I don't really know why maybe IT is just kind of like this complete change in context that IT allows me to focus more.

But magic room is is hard to explain unless you are looking into IT. Um if folks are familiar with three scanning or lighter, which you can do on every I think every iphone pro from the well know from the eleven forward light is what allows you to scan stuff in IT also does some magic sauce to make photos look a certain way. I don't know this stuff. I just use IT.

Yeah like I don't remember the exact acronis, but the R I believe sensor rate are and IT IT pings distance so I can create a map of the room with the light, our sensor and IT looks like I mean I the the apps, the photos with the APP are not that impressive. It's like you matrix kind of stuff, but i'm still confused. What are you doing with this?

I'm just walking around the apartment. I don't have a really big space, but that's part of i'd love vision pro is those little subber changes as i'm walking her Brown. Usually i'm writing and when I say writing, I mean I am dictating and I use voice for that um which is also available able for the mac and IOS and everything else.

But um the as i'm like dictating stuff and i'm just passing around, it's just like A A little change in context that puts my brain into a certain work mode the same way the moon is kind of administrative need. My keyboard and track pad mode does that and makes sense. Um I mean, that's just the environment. I also have various sticky notes. There's .

many different .

weird parts.

No no, because I I wanted get to all this stuff, but but I think you've made you've talking about writing in this thing and to me that is for me the the biggest use of the vision pro like so I do a lot of writing, you know, i've got blog post newsletters and maxmara lapse content, and there's just a lot of things that I write every day. And this, for me, has been the big game danger.

I don't know if IT justifies the extraordinary expensive this device, but IT has become my writing environment. IT is not just a gimigliano. I like you.

I ve got to come in chair um and I have A I have I got an amazon's a little plastic tree that holds a apple keyboard in a track pad and I put the vision pro on. I sit there and I always go to the same place, the use semi environment. I don't know why I love you.

Somebody, i've been there many times, so makes me feel like i'm there. And IT is crazy. How IT trick your brain. If you like you, they are like my, I ve said this before on the show, but I know when i'm there. Like because it's in the snow, my feel cold and I don't know why.

But what I know why, because human brains are amazing and IT does weird stuff for different people.

I've love IT so, but I sit there and I write and so I do two or three sessions in a week and the last one to two hours and I get everything I need written. And I have have tried different apps like draft is kind of there, but it's still an ipad APP. And then there's a couple like writing ough.

I'm not happy with any of them. I've been using apple notes just because there's really nothing that's a native to a vision pro. And then you just said voice pin on A I i've never heard of this APP. So what is voice pin in how do you do are writing in voice pin?

I should say yeah I I I am much more liberal with my A I use and much more enthusiastic large language models than most people I know. But voice pen on IT, it's not don't if you're interested in IT, don't go in thinking IT is just A I. They do the annoying thing where they kind of put A I in IT just to be like, yeah hey, investors give us money and take up store future us, but is really just a pretty solid dictation APP.

And there's a lot of I wouldn't even say that is the best one, but IT is one that I had is available on mac, ipad, I I O S and vision pro and IT also has theory actions you can import uh like if if you want to just transcribe um a podcast you've already recorded like IT is truly a native APP which is exciting when so many have been so much of what I use. It's kind of a half busted for whatever you know vision pro will support at the time. I still use drafts but it's I don't even think it's available. I I think just because the ba yeah yeah I looking now it's just if a yeah oh gosh yeah um so drafts I guess if you are not on the beta, you can use IT in vision pro.

But okay forget that I said .

I use .

dress nothing person I didn't .

say that nothing to see here honestly with if only shortcuts worked with vision pro but I not really um I end up pretty much a if I need type something IT will be in a sticky note but I mean we'll get to that but that's A A whole annoying thing. But the most reliable is apple notes and the previous oh.

okay, so so you're doing the dictation in the vision pro environment and then you're doing the text editing in something like appliance as well and make sense like my my workflow is largely I there there are so many of these AI transcription apps, but that i've got one cult whispers meters that I love because I have attached IT to the action button on my apple watch.

So I just pushed the button, then I talk and then IT shows up in drafts and we've talked about this emperor episodes. I'm going to IT now, but it's just an automatic workflow where I don't do that necessarily envision pro. But then I get all of this stuff and drafts s, and I can edit IT in giraffe vision pro or often I want to move IT over apple note.

It's just because that's a native happen. It's easier to work. And then that's where I go through into kind of the the hard work of editing what I started with my voice.

And I love doing that using ity. It's like I go there, I go to an environment my brain is clicks right in to. This is edit time and writing time.

Yeah.

then that for me is the best case, productivity. And there are some other stuff I ve tried. Maybe we get two in the but the writing for me has been really good. But I get the impression you're also just walk around the house using the vision pro in doing stuff with IT. That explained to me that.

Yeah, I think I use IT for entertainment a lot. Not like not nearly as much as of most folks because I kind of have little stations. I I suppose I was really like I struggled for a while with just working from home because for seven years I worked out of an office and really loved that because I could physically change sport areas in the office because was one of those was very millennial open office plans with different, oh, you've been to our office.

So like, you know, the old office that I worked out of had a bunch of different places where you could really, you know, IT wasn't going to use somebody by going into a kitchen. IT just changes a brain even from just being at your desk. And I, uh, the cool thing with magic room is, unlike the apple environments IT is easier to walk around um and I am always doing the dictating and pulling that up with theory but I will also have my bedroom be like the writing area because my my desk is here.

So really this is like my office. So when i'm going into the moon mode and doing administrative stuff for using a keyboard and track pad, I am sitting at my desk and then I turned up the environment so that i'm fully immersed and basically can see anything else. And a cat will jump on my lap and I will freak out because I like, oh wow, didn't know there was anything there.

But all right um and then when I am out into my living room, that's kind of where the I I I don't know I I call IT my mad scientist lab because it's there are windows everywhere. It's like all every sort of APP is kind of in my living room i've got my APP open voice of god. Yes, it's called A I note take her voice pen.

I just have IT open all the time I what a bad name because that has A A that sout the transcription as well as the tax popping up. That is an entire wall for me. So even though rock away from IT, um I end up like always being able to see IT from like the another corner of the room.

And if I pause like got is when you said that like oh, at the screen shots of this aren't very impressive. Describing anything in vision pro isn't impressive and it's also very confusing, which is apple's biggest fAiling. But the to the right of me is my big note taking and transcription that's always running right in front of me will be whatever other apps I happen to be using.

Usually ChatGPT is open. Apple notes is open, along with whatever sort of a sticky note, the APP I will be trying. I have switched through sticky notes when I people know it's sticky notes like posted notes are grade.

I don't know something like a digital posted notes. There is a ton of them for a vision pro. I don't even want to recommend any, just if you have one look and see what is right for you IT totally depends on the like lighting in your room where you want to place them. In my case, uh, usually the left of my living room where my book cases are. So if it's a project that i'm working on um I have those clix book case.

It's basically a book case with little squares um and if I have yeah yeah the basic I K A bookshelf um and when I have a project, I will typically have one of those cubes for A A project and like physically, the books i'm using to search go there or the the audio equipment i'm using for that uh will be in there um but now along with the physical things will be my virtual sticky notes. And this is not a this is more for like brainstorming as well. It's not a good way to permanently hold information because the thinking is a little weird.

But on all all of these, you can't really you can really have a good analogy for any sort of Opera Operating system. Um for a while I tried having multiple apple notes window is open and or you know having drafts open, but I will end up just using where do I have open rights now yeah it's it's called sticky vision, uh, virtual notes. It's all that it's really it's not uh pretty but um IT has the the really consistent like A A lot of these apps don't remember where you left IT in terms of space and time, but apple all of apple's native apps.

Um I when I say native, I mean the ones for vision pro um you so not something like saying numbers. Um you take your vision per off and you put IT back on later. Everything is still there so when I am working in my living room, put IT back on my sticky vision notes still there typically apple notes as well as, hey, I note taker, all of that is there a everything else completely scattered to the wind drafts any even um my beloved now or the sunset ted juno which was an amazing youtube a player that apple nixed from the up .

store so hopefully final .

yeah yeah I mean they were pretty complete of so grumpy about IT um but those are kind of the ones that are always open to my right and to my left and then you in front of me is in theory this should be like my dashboard um I have used widget Smith a lot by friend of all the great shows David underscore David Smith and I have certain widgets. It's usually my watch battery and whatever photo that I guess is I read me IT is just almost another sticking out but um IT just looks Better and stays where IT should.

So so tell me, alex, when do you because I mean, it's kind of cool that you've got kind of turn your like living room into the like war room of screens and then you just take off your handset and then it's your living room weekend. You don't have a mess you know, digital miss. I kind of like that as someone who's who's enthusiastic and using this stuff. Um when are the times that you use this and when we've all talked about the limitations in the device, but when does that feel like you're living in the future? And when you're using this Operating system.

I mean, IT feels already like i'm living in the future. There's just not many other people here yet ah and that's not any one's fault other than apple. Um i'm being vogue because I can't really talk about the projects and working on other than that, this is A A lot of game design base.

So yeah, when you know you're designing like obviously you need a lot of space and um surfaces or what whatever windows. So i'm in there a lot moving around various things and there is always this sense of this feels like the future but also IT is so far like god, it's always so hard to talk about because it's like all this is really, really magical. And still, every almost every day that I put IT on, IT feels magical and delightful.

Kind of like the first decade of using iphone. And as more folks started using iphones, I was like, oh yes, cool. Now we all sort of this shared computing language and the same way that suddenly the desktop, well, I wasn't really around, but I guess the desk crop was like, yeah, this is, uh, sk, this is a literal top for your desk and in the phone it's like, oh yeah, here's this, I guess infinite canvas in this little square where vision pro everything that needs a different context because because IT literally can be everywhere. Um one place I wish I could use vision pro more is outdoors actually because I tried to take as much video ah uh as many photos and as much video as possible and again out like literal infinite canvas uh IT starts to glitch after like a hundred of an apple note, but um the idea probably don't need that.

Well, i'll tell you for me the future stuff is definitely that writing I was explained earlier I mean because I I am kind of a shot ting I stay home, I have a little room that I work and I love IT it's just made the way exactly I want IT but yet I still can transport myself to another place um with these environments i've been experimenting with like other environments like maybe I just journal in hawaii in't I haven't you know and and there really is something in your brain that happens with that and that feels kind of magical. I am struggling with um free form apples kind of canvas APP because I feel like I was built for vision pro IT showed up about the time apples talking about vision pro. IT doesn't seem like something apple would have made except vision pro and yeah it's .

not quite right yeah IT doesn't translate well to different Operating systems and it's not as fast as other options out there. Honestly, obsidian feels like a option then, uh, free form not not for everybody, just for me because of speed and even sharing stuff. And I don't know anyone who uses free form for is so good, but say it's serious work.

Well, like i'm doing a thing right now. I have a group of friends that we were all kind of the business making things online and we talk together in every week or two and this kind of share. And so i'm going to be shown with them kind of my max parky kind of verse, you know how it's going in.

And so i've created this large free form document that's got like where where do I get customers? What are the things that i'm doing? All the things I want to improve on.

And so i've been building this.

found one you're using IT. So but I in a perfect world, I would put the vision pro on and just make this thing the size of a wall and walk around IT. Think about IT.

And you know I think there's there is something to that. You know, you if you look at studies, people who will have these big glass swords and their in their workspaces often come up with good ideas. It's kind of the ever presence of that idea.

And being able to interact with IT with your hands in a marker and free form is almost there. Like, but what I found is I built these things largely on my mac, and then I view them in free form. And that gives me some of that.

But that doesn't, it's not the same. And i've even done anything where I will have IT open on my ipad and free form at the same time so I can write on IT with the apple pencil on an ipad. And that's okay. But it's like I feel like it's so close, but it's not quite what I want now. And so IT feels almost like i'm in the future with some other stuff.

It's because I think we don't have a shared the language for IT yet. And when when we're kind of pulled out of the literal space, um IT makes our brain shift in a way that we don't want to. I think most of the time. And I have here that the biggest misconception about apple vision pro, and I think that people really emphasize the way that I isolate you, like you said, like, am sure I am as well. However, for me, apple vision proves my most social device, because with all of the tinkering i'm doing and like walking around and doing all of the stuff, I am also using my voice to text people.

I'm also in that administrative mode where uh, sometimes i'm doing email and not as often in as i'd like, but I will be on face time or zoom calls with folks because when you're working from home like I do that sort of the best way I have found to be present with another person. And you know he makes me really happy that you you've talk about reform and how IT is at least almost in that direction because I I guess i'm double down IT feels like being in the future but not as many people are there yet. But it's it's almost now when I go to text somebody um like oh yeah I got a cap on things to do that that's that's odd and uh I don't know like I don't think it's a problem.

Like when my spouse is home, I just take IT off like I I I do wish I could wear vision pro out and about more often than I do but not quite yet in terms of confidence or uh， thinking about bragging something the expensive out into a public place. But and so that's the thing is when I am with other folks is just not on. I don't really see the isolating how it's more isolating than a phone when you actually get down to IT and IT almost feels like this weird, almost moral panic of like, oh, man, you're looking at the T.

V, and your eyes are gonna melt or yeah, you're brand just I I don't know, does IT actually feel different to you like in a bad way because yeah you get into that space of like your you're at your salary and alone and peaceful and writing or and i'm you know on uh A A beach in bora bora. But do you do any social stuff in IT as well? I think you could .

almost make the argument it's Better in some ways because it's kind of your in IT or you're out of IT like apple made the commercial with the lady on the couch talking to somebody while SHE kept t IT on. I have never done that. Like if someone walks in room except for the time I freaked my daughter out, I just take that off and we talk in and as a result, i'm either working in the spac computing or i'm interacting with another human.

I'm never doing both wherewith A A phone screen is very easy to be talking to a person at the same time looking at your phone. And uh, so maybe there's some hope for us there, I guess. But the but I just haven't really found IT to be much of an issue. And I focus on doing this work generally when i'm alone. Anyway, my family knows that if they look as my my little studio has a glass door, you can see me in here if I am in the fish ball and i've got the thing on my head, i'm either if i've got the keyboard on my lap, i'm working, if i'm sitting or smiling silly and i'm probably watching like star wars something and so they know you know when they can come in and say, hey you, I need you for something and it's just really hasn't .

been a problem yeah I again, like really love that idea of context. The like you talk about contextual computing a lot, and I think this is just adds more to IT and are obviously IT as humbles. But you know, when I take that headset off, I am present, but also my input when I take vision pro off becomes theory and its various forms for me.

I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but um I still have the original home pod hanging on for some reason. Mine has hasn't broken and I feel even nervous mentioning IT because it's like a secret that I have the one homepage that doesn't cause me trouble. But so when i'm with my spouse or or like that, we have someone over watching T, V with us. Something i'll just save something to IT and that is my audible input and then i'm not you know, i'm back in with people not texting someone just in at more in the moment, I suppose.

This episode of the mac power users is brought to you by a square space. Go to square space on calm, lush. P, U. Save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain using the code M, P, U. Square space is the all in one website platform for entrepreneur s to stand out and succeed online.

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It's all the data you need to scale your brand or business fully integrated and clearly displayed for anybody looking to get a web presence. To me, square space is the default answer. I have set so many my friends up with this for their businesses and families and everything else you can imagine websites.

I've been using them since they first arrive. I still have a square space website, and IT is just great. The thing I love is these guys never rest.

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to go first? Yes, immediately download with IT spath. IT will become the, I think, most useful APP on vision pro, 而 而是 在 a most useful and most consistent utility。 You can use biased because I know undergo David smith, but IT is also the closest to feeling like native apple APP. You I I assume folks know what widget Smith is.

However, if not, um you can create widgets which are just little screens in vision pros field of view because apple doesn't really have a good way to just display a clock and you can customize your own little clock widget in wood Smith or you can make some there's tons of options. You can also make a little widget that shows the weather uh, something that has a photo calendar and or or if I like. But if you just want to write something, it's not quite a sticky note.

But you can if you've got like a early theme or something, you can just put that on a consistent little window and IT stays there. It's it's probably an APP that if I didn't exist, I wouldn't be able to use IT in enough. A vision pro would still be more of a .

toy yeah I I will add as a productivity one that I use is fantastic cow. And I know it's a subscription APP and some folks don't like that, but it's just a really great calendar APP. And the thing I like to do with that is actually put fantastic call on the ceiling and just leave my calendar on the ceiling. So as i'm working, if something comes up and I just want to see what my my schedule is, I just look up and it's on the ceiling.

IT sounds silly.

absolutely works the thing. And IT really scales big. So i've got literally like a printed calendar on my ceiling, the size of my ceiling and it's it's really silly. But when you're in there, it's it's really convenient and it's out of the way. You don't even think about IT until you need to check your dates and look up so that that wants kind of useful.

Ah I I love that. I mean, getting to also the kind of consistent also like you, something that is consisted and are always there again with the notes um notes A I ah it's also really fast. And if you're looking for something that will sink with voice, and I almost want to say not a replacement for draft fs, but something that allows you to manipur the text and like, it's got really rude amenti automation.

But if you want to be able to get your text on your mac later, I think that other other than apple now is the best way to do IT and it's got IT is as some good ai stuff that is a little bit similar to apple what apple intelligence offers. But as as we know, uh, apple intelligence won't be on vision pro, which sucks so much band is also why I have just to partner with um with that I also always have ChatGPT and open next to that. I didn't .

mention that. I know we didn't mention that, but it's odd that apple has a big intelligence push and its not a vision pro. I'm gonna say RAM is the reason I feel like RAM is always the reason why the apple intelligence doesn't land on platforms.

And my guesses is all around that they're using to to display the environment in everything. Um they just didn't put enough rain. The thing to also hold apple intelligence, which is a big miss in my opinion, and that's gonna be true.

And may we spend all this money on this device? I don't know when they're gonna with a new one. We're going to talk about that later in the in the more powers or segment.

But for the lifetime of this thing, it's never gonna get up intelligence, which is kind of sad. But but movie on with with apps that I like. Another one that I really like in vision pro, which I didn't realize worked in vision pro until by accident, is this an apple puzzle? B, E, E, L.

oh yeah. yeah. I yeah.

I use IT on my mac because I do not screen cases. A great way to display your iphone or ipad on your screen when you're screen casting. But they made IT work with vision pro. And I know you can look at your phone through the vision pro heads up, but when you're in an environment, you can see IT and it's also been rendered through a screen that looks way Better if you just use bezzle and then you can mire your phone screen in virtual space. Very Candy productivity out.

Oh wait. So in in bezzle, you you can actually use your phone in like the same way you can now with zoia on.

it's rendered and then you can use your phone with your hand, you know, so you got your hand know that you've got a much cleaner display of your screen, a up in vezzy .

H I hope to be able to use that suit. Um another one that is a little bit more on the utility side but kind of necessary if you're anna vision pro for the whole day is home U I, which is just get IT. It's a home, the apple home APP. Yeah, but in vision pro nice.

It's boring.

But it's but hey, someone had to make IT. So thank you to the home. You I guess so is that .

I haven't use that up. Is that allow you to like hanging switches and space like you could say, pushes button internal lights on or .

yeah does that work IT be in notes? Um that was part of what I gona will well able to go about IT in more power users. But it's not a skill morph as I D like.

So you can put, let's say, uh, if you have a fan or something like you can put on off switches where something is, but it's more of a not that part for me feels a little bit more like a novelty where i'd rather just control IT the a theory. And you know, I have the purpose of my starter home is to control of everything on this console, not have to get up and move things around. So IT was fun for like a day. And I like, all right now, well, just like this little council here.

yeah, i've got a weird one that I really like IT. And if you are interested in playing the piano, and you've got a vision brothers at an APP called piano flowing tiles, and I put a link, the subtitles of guitar hero on your piano, and what he does is that overlays the keys that if you look at a piano keyboard and overlays blocks on top of each key, you are supposed to press to play.

So, so IT just kind of lights up your keyboard, telling you what to play. I'm not sure if this is a great way to learn to play the piano or not, but I just love the fact that somebody thought of this and made IT and um it's really kind of cool and yeah, I play with my keyboards sometimes I can this is i've been playing piano my whole life often on so i'm not sure I need this up. And I do like IT and I like that IT exists piano flowing tiles.

That's cool. One more that I didn't mentioned, but mentioned special video a little bit. And there is not a great way uh until I rather until this up there wasn't a great way outside of just the photos up to see uh spatial video and not a great way to share them yeah but with this APP spatial station, uh it's a really nice environment to watch like shorter, more casual special videos. You know you're not in a big theater but it's a great fast way to um to just load them up and you still get that cool third view yeah that .

that's cool. I've never seen that one before. In addition to these types of apps, you and I haven't really talked too much about how good this thing is for content consumption.

And the obvious ones are like the disney plus APP and HBO APP. And you can like this stuff you wanna watch um if you want to watch IT alone. There honestly is no Better experience and I ve watched many movies and shows in here.

Assume me my wife isn't interested in watching IT with me like he likes only murders in the bill. We watch that together on TV. Um I like you know science fiction weird stuff.

I'll watch that vision pro because nobody else is interested in IT, and i'll sit here and watch IT with this massive screen and kind of immersive audio. It's it's just it's amazing for that. And uh, I get I assume you do the same thing. You watch a lot of video inside vision pro.

Nope, I be yeah so the reason IT is uh just I tend to be around my spouse and there's no good way to even if we both had them like that， there's still a sub par sharing experience in my opinion. So we would be fine being weirdos on the couch together in our own little pods. Uh, but were but there is not a really great way to do that.

And where I actually end up reading more than I do watching. But I mean, that's like the you know that the killer out for most people is a the the media consumption and my favorite is the disney plus APP for sure. But yeah I don't um when I when I have what I think of is like a bachelor's weekend, I do like bin shows in IT, but I I that's one place i'm not in the future yet just you know watching the a regular TV like like an army well.

I mean there shows I like that they don't like and I watch him in there and that kind of the drawing from I will definitely there's something they want to watch to. I would not prefer to watch IT with my sweet heart, but if she's not interested and why not take advantage of that platform? But in terms of content, consumption is way more than video.

I find there are a host of gallery apps like that are like, you know, they have famous artworks at high resolution scans and like and a lot of the Better ones have like a lot of educational material in them. And I like art, and I like, you know, there's certain types so hard I like and no matter what IT is your interested in, you can put IT in there. And the experience of seen IT on your max screen or an ipad screen versus seen IT on your wall is entirely different.

Like I get that it's not the real thing. I'm not actually in the gallery, but I can stand up and walk around IT and look at IT. And IT is very immersive in that way. And I love that all those art apps there, i'm a sucker for all of them.

I am big on not not just those. Those are very cool, but also the really immersive games that kind of get into oh, there there's like kind of almost just two hondas right now. The X, R pass through games like black box, which is an amazing puzzle game, which is also on I O S.

But like the game on I O S, this version of black box takes advantage of all the unique vision pro features. So I don't anna spoil IT, but you do like weird stuff with your hands and just moving around and it's an absolute delight. Uh similar to if you're a fan of what if which was the marvel interactive experience um and the one like classic VR game that I always uh recommend to people is job simulator, which is not exactly what IT sounds like. But if you go into IT thinking that IT is just a job simulator, I promise you will have a lot of fun.

See, like I haven't played that one because I had a job where I put on a tie in, went to office for twenty three years in the idea of doing that, VR makes me want to hurt myself so I can to m IT.

This is why, like it's IT is exactly for someone who has been to a done a corporate job by job. And IT is a bit crc and incredibly functional. It's also available on the quest and it's it's almost like ten years old now. Wow, who boy? But it's IT is great if you are looking for a full blown VR experience.

This is good for me. I I have one game and I play IT constantly. It's called, I think, bomb room, something like that.

but I ve never .

heard of this. It's it's so awesome. IT is what you call A V R.

Oh, yes. okay.

And you have you have a canin and you put them on the floor, in your room and on the other side of the room, there's a there's a castle or some sort of um of of thing that needs to be blown up and then you control you know the usual the velocity and the angle of the canon.

And as you get further into if they start shooting back at you and IT leaves like because i've got my studios got kind of a wide space on the floor, IT leaves like Davids in the ground and know does all the um kind of virtual reality augmented really stuff you think you would want? And there are some physics involved and I just love to sit here and fire my candid off at the castle, the other side, the room I i've got so far in this game because this is my favorite, you know like gaming past past time in. And I know there's a way Better games out there, but this one is just so on me.

I don't know this looks I i've played this on meta quest and IT was really good, good. But the you know the hand tracking just wasn't there at the time and this can be very dangerous for me to put IT my pro. But oh, my g.

well, they did a thing. They just released an update. This is how much I am because the controls were bad, like the controls were too close.

So like, yeah, you would think you were adJusting the velocity, but you actually fired the canned or something. Well, they've kind of fixed that with the latest update. So it's not as so you don't get misfires.

And like the in fact, i'm looking at the the website on the apple vision poster and they've got IT on a table and I put IT on the floor and shoot them across the room and IT. It's really fun. So that's that's my game, but I need to get a few more games.

Another thing I did with immersive video that I haven't mentioned that I want to say is apple did is, first, immersive video kind of work of fiction. It's called submerged in its set inside a submarine in rob war two. And I didn't know what to expect going into IT, but IT is shockingly good um I I was really surprised at how much I felt being cramped in the submarine that you know in jeopardy under water and IT really starts to mess with your head. So uh, as A I hope that there's more of this this type of content to come.

The very first V R experience I had now, definitely ten years ago, was a game where you just get your head chopped off. IT was the french level. yes. And so, yes. And so i've been in a lot of people cant tell I i've used and spend a lot of time in VR in in terms of the game space. And I am so excited for apple to put more money into special video and investing in more creative and companies experimenting with this type of creation.

But I can't think of maybe anything I want less than to be drowning because of a bunch of doses, which is what I really feels like this movie is I be sure i'll see you soon, but i'm like, okay, i'm not onta rush into watching this. I'm excited to to see IT though and i'm glad that you had that that experiences because that's exactly what I hope for the the future of this this general, if we will. Yeah like the versions.

video stuff is more than just three video IT IT. It's a hundred native degree immersive if you look around. And I feel like this is a real opportunity for apple. If if I was in charge, I would be spending so much money on this, i'd be like, you know, getting the top artists and putting a camera on stage for a song during the tour.

And you know, I be I would just be at the world series right now as we record this world series is still happening, like why not have a game and really needs money? I bet they would take some of the apple money till you put some of those cameras on the field for couple games. I would just be like expLoring this so hard.

And I feel like they haven't enough at that, but like they did one on park core in paris. And I was kind of, yeah, I was kind of knew. I was afraid of heights.

I know like, you know how you know, like, i'm not like at the tops of building very often. Back when I was a lawyer, I worked on a lot of cases involving construction. So once when I find myself at the top of a building with the construction site, now always, you always felt IT know you. I mean, you were a lawyer that you were safe.

They weren't putting you out on the beams anything, but you can felt IT but then when I went and did this watches video like, oh, i'm definitely afraid of heights because they put you on the very edge of the earth and and I just like I feel myself backing up as i'm watching IT like my body is physically stepping back and and that is uh, that's what they can do with this stuff so yeah, there's a lot to not to come with this. I I think overall, as we kind of a get to the end here, IT has been a disappointment. I think if you ask the people out in the world, you this this vision program released about a year ago now, and you know, like I ve said many times, there's not enough content for IT.

The APP developers aren't showing up as fast as they have traditionally for apple platforms. But I still in a regular user of this technology, and I still feel like maybe this isn't the the future, it's not gonna be the big thing and maybe it's not the next iphone. But I think there's a space in my life for this kind of technology. And I just want us to get to the next level of the stuff where it's more accessible and more useful. But you know, what do you think about IT now that you've .

been using in a while? I never expect IT to be the next big thing or whatever because folks have been trying to make the very V R. The next big things since its general, and you coin the term.

But I think that that's OK. And we should embrace that. We should have more ways to use computers and more personalized ways to interact with our own data and digital worlds. So I think all of the fAilings this device are your god, I would I never thought I would say this. I don't think this device would have a would be perceived the same way if tim cook wasn't the leader of the company.

But the one thing I do appreciate is at the very least, apple has made its at least a they say anyway that they've kind of made their values known and they are all in on special computing and X, R and just being in control and manipulating your environment. And again, that personal touch. So I don't know if I want something to be the next IOS ever because IT tends to flatten really quickly.

And so the I understand why developers haven't showed up to this. It's perfectly reasonable. And a is fAiling is completely on apple because so many, I mean, I mean, you were run for this, David, so much, if I remember, so many resources were put into getting developers to come to I O S and approach their stuff and get a different beast.

But at the time, I mean, IT was six at six, seven hundred dollars. And you know the army folks like army group didn't have millions of dollars to make this amazing new APP for, uh, completely new platform, but they they did. And now at the very least, I hope that we get more of this immersive content as a way to explore art and the way to sort of explore how our brains move and change in ways that physically weren't possible before.

Yeah I I think all that's true and and and I also think this is really a flag planting by apple yeah you know I mean, as I understand, if even if this was a runway, they couldn't make these products in the volumes that they sell other other products, they couldn't make the in fifteen million of them to self.

And because of the the technology and the screens, you just don't get the yield that they they couldn't make enough of them if if everybody in the world, one IT one. So maybe this this first versions for them is a bit of a public beta. You know, seeing what people do with them, saying what the APP start showing up in the apple has more planned.

We're going to actually talk about that and more powerful today, what we think in the future of this thing. But but I I love my apple vision. Provide, don't regret buying IT. IT was a lot of money.

But look, i've strain money on dumb things that this in my wife and I do find IT as something I use, you know and and I I like getting a taste of the future, but I also like using IT every day, like I said, you know, riding, working on this document in. And free form and and other things I do and there are are enjoyable to me and and they become part of my computing life. Thanks again, alex, for coming in.

where? Where should people go? Alex, if they need to find alex cox. Producer.

oh, you can go to alex cox dot me and IT has links to all of my stuff OK whatever .

social media .

thinks the cox stopped me.

I didn't think um on my website max barker that come, I have a page called now so max barker that come slash now and I just updated with whatever I am working on you know and yeah I just cause a summer what i'm doing like if I saw a friend and I said, hey, what are you doing I just write I have every week or two and that's become my social media .

presence yeah it's almost like a digital business card for me like more than A A business card like k this is my stuff. But it's it's always up to date with the most recent stuff .

yeah minds more more informal like what i'm doing in the witch shop or whatever. But this now page is felt very liberating because I don't do social media hardly at all anymore. So so I do the nail page but yeah, that's cool either way, alex, thanks so much for coming on.

As soon as I knew Stephen was was bugging out for a month, you went to the top of my list. I'm so glad you're able to to come on the show and share your experience with vision pro. Have to keep us .

close for .

having me yeah absolutely. We want to think our sponsors over an e cam and square space. Thanks so much for supporting the show. Great, great absent companies and services, uh, for more power users, which is the ad for extended version of the show. Alex and I going to talk about the future of the application pro stick around, otherwise we will see you next time.