773: 2024 State of the Platforms (Part 2)
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Well, mac power users, i'm David Sparks and joined by my house. Even even have you don't .

even a good David. How are you?

ExcEllent, excEllent. Looking forward to today show as we continue the state of the platforms. Uh, we've got some, some odd balls in this one, but we've also got the max, so we're going to cover them all.

This is part two of the two part series state of the apple, various apple platforms. Last week, we did the iphone, ipad, basically the mobile platforms. This week, we're picking up everything else, and i'm looking forward to getting started on this one. Uh, before we do get started, however, you can gift a really membership right now at a very good bice.

Yeah, absolutely. We are running a sale on all annual plans. You get a gift for somebody else I give for yourself, add a show to your existing plan and you want to go to give relay dot com.

The link is in the get twenty percent off any annual plan. And it's good reminder that we do more power users. That's a longer add free version of the show that you and I do each and every single week. And uh this week we are gonna be talking about home kit, uh, home kids, kind of those weird things like it's a platform but it's also a software feature kind of hard, you know we put that ah for our members so go check that out, give late dot com the cell runs through december eighteenth so we sure to uh go go jump on board. It's great time .

yeah and over at max parkland, i'm doing a twenty percent cell right now on field guides and that is set to end on december second for the rest of world for mac power users, listeners with the code, mp u gravy or one word no space. I'm going extended in a couple of days because that's the day after the show show published. So probably it'll run through like the fourth i'll go and fix IT after we record today.

And for the first time, i'm including a brand newfield guide is part of one of these cells. The shortcuts for iphone and ipad isn't quite done yet. It's like ninety percent as I record this, but it's available to purchase with the special liquid about my notes and you'll get the twenty percent of that which will buy the way be a bigger this country you'll get when IT officially launches. So if you want to get that, just a few days left. Imp grave links and and outs.

awesome. I like in your photo on the max parky field guide. Uh, you have your fancy sign in the background.

Yeah, best.

You really make less to pay for itself.

Yeah, you know, I mean, I I love that thing. I know, just love you. I love you.

I had we had my daughter graduated, but then he ran off to an internship in love. So we just had her graduation party last weekend. And I I was using IT at that. Just I love this. I don't know of my IT just makes me happy because it's credible right now IT says the reward for good work .

is more work that happy thanksgiving everybody well.

didn't say that of thanksgiving. I put something more appropriate but that's very inspirational to me is no is the disney line? He said we make movies because IT allows us to make more movies.

Yeah, I feel the same way about the field guide. It's like if I make him good enough to people buy and then I can afford to keep making them. And that's that's what I want to do anyway, enough that hippy stuff. Let's talk about the state of the platforms. And i'm so happy because last week I sitting in my hands the whole episode, I want to talk about the max Steven, I know I didn't .

mean to put that on week too. I just sort of kind of the way that happened. But um but were here we're at the mac and just what a good time to be a mauser that's my opening statement. It's a great time to be a mauser when we get .

to the introspective part. I'll just cheese ahead there a bit. The share is the forty eight anniversary. The mac.

Yeah there .

is forty years, forty years. But so keep that in your mind while we're talking through where things are. But but I think the first place to begin is um the engine is the apple silicon.

So we're now at in four we've been at this now several years of you know this transition to apple silicon. And you know we're firmly in IT. Now how is apple doing? They I would say they came out of the gates like rain. Are they doing okay now that were a few years into IT.

Yeah, I would say absolutely. You know, I think a big question we had in the beginning was are they being able to keep this up? Yes, it's incredible that the the in one is just blows away the intel machines, right? That never really should have been a surprise.

But then you have to talk about in two and in three and in four and so on. And I think they've proven over the course of last couple of years and they got this, they they can continue to iterate on these things. And yes, there's weird around the edges like there's no in three ultra.

And if you read like really nerdy stuff about how these ships are made, the process by which the in three line was made was kind of a dead in technically. But maybe that's why there was wasn't the ultra and the right now the max studio or mac pro were struggling. The him to like, yes, there, they're still some weird, but these things are so performance, they're so very clearly capable of running macos and its entire sweet of applications. They were no says back when this was just a rumor like to put iphone ships in the mac like the mac deserves Better like, no, the mac is getting what I deserve. The mac is getting world class silicon that makes everything fast and efficient and I couldn't be happy worth where they are.

Yeah, I agree. And of course, in two and three and four, not the kind of jumps that we had from until to him. One and IT is interesting. Now we have enough samples now that we've had.

They've all been pretty good upgrades, but we've had some that are Better than others like as we're starting to learn more about the m four and max, it's clear that this in four generation is a big jump um and and that's good, right? But at the same time, the ambuLance are still very good. max.

Ah i've heard from so many people in max barky labs that are used to like feeling itchy to up. great. Now like they got a new one. Now we're up to in four. They think what i've had a near three or four years, I think it's time we get a new one.

But as they look into, they realize that they don't really need IT, but it's just not the in one is still such a great computer that they're just not updating in. Some are, of course, but it's not the usual upgrade cycle. And and I think apple accounts that I think they know that people are going to hold onto these longer because they're just Better in the last longer.

And I think that's one of the reasons why we've a whole heading here on services. The I can think of a way could have gone much Better than IT has. No, uh, I I wish that the cellular ship had developed in parallel. So by now we had already have in for with a built cellular um on the mac.

But but overall, the actual processor, the thing this is supposed to do, I think it's it's just doing fantastic and and and there's you know specific cards were implementations were going to break down in a minute, some of which I think could be Better than others. But but just the era of apple silicon just bring IT on more. I I think this is just A A golden era for the mac.

I'm gonna in the shower notes a link to a column on mac world that day morn wrote earlier in november about this this exact thing that apple is gonna face a chAllenge around the upgrade cycle on the mac. And I think it's really well thought out and definitely goes in a more detail about what we've spoken about and know.

The the kind of the flip side of like the hardware is really good for a long time is that apple support these machine software wise for a long time. Like honestly, i'm surprised that the twenty, twenty four version of mac O S, you know back before we knew was going to be called zoia, but IT was still going to support until max. Now the intel max that IT does support that list continues to the window.

But at some point, they're going to cut them off. But they haven't yet. They've moved, I think, slogan in that regard that I thought. But that also raised that the question of like how long will the m one to be supported in my OS, I think it's going to be a really long time.

And so when you combine this incident like the chip and the max, the chip is in or really good and they're really good for a long time and back. O S, supporting for really long time like that is gonna continue to check out the upgrade cycle and in his article then like, you know what, there's a reason people like the colors on the imac. There's a reason this new mac mini has is also captivated. Like is apple going to do more with the hardware design to potentially lure in upgraders that otherwise like when IT look? And I think that's an interesting, an interesting point if you want IT.

yeah. And I think we both would like to see apple be more experimental and throw a few more bets on the table with hardware finites. But let's let's start with hardware that they do have and the laptops are by far the bigger sellers.

So I think that makes sense to to start there with the little one. The thirteenth macbook air, uh, currently shipping with the m three chip rumor to get in for next ring is a great little computer. I mean, the m three chip is no slouch.

It's not the kind of jump that we got with him for uh, one of my biggest complaints about IT when we've never started talking about this show was the memory. But in the meantime, apple has weeks that they know between possible sixteen gigabit of memory. So that's good. It's a solid computer with a very small harddrive.

Yeah the storage I think is the next low hanging fruit starting at two in or fifty six gigs is just that's pretty .

much not enough.

No, even with things like eyelid drive and draw box and I cloud photos like your data, not really on your computer or just sort of reference like even in this world, that one that assumes that someone is paying for I cloud space or drop box space is something like that. Not always a given.

There are lots of people who just ignore that you're out of space message um but it's also just kind of a bad experience, like if you're always kind of bumping up against, uh, your storage limitations. And so my I think I think now that we have sixteen gigabytes of memory across the board, I think that the next thing is GTA be we've gotta started to five from on twelve gig bites of storage. Two, fifteen sex is just not enough.

Yeah, but I really have no problem recommending this computer. You know, we always hear from friends and family. I'm gonna get a new computer.

Which one should I get? I feel like that's the starting point. Thirteen and macbook air is going to be enough for most everybody.

Um I do council people to upgrade the the drive the SSD, especially with the photos, like just trying IT IT in a big enough. Any of the phones seek bigger and bigger size photos now so they least things crashing into each other. Um I I was thinking about the thirteenth macbook air because IT wears a couple heads, right? It's the entry level.

It's the college book. Um it's also the apple's answer to an ultra. It's not as ultra as they've had in the past. I remember that who was that little eleventh?

Remember that one? Yeah the eleventh air in the twelve venge macbook, both yeah noticeably smaller er than this computer .

yeah do you think that that the thirteen age macbook are is adequate to scratch the age for an ultra light for people who want IT many.

there's always people who who look back. Finally, I think Jason's smells in one of these people who like one of the small lest nobility possible when he was not on the bus, going back and forth to microwave in the day. I think they're always people who are willing to say, look out, trade off screen size and battery life for something really small.

I think the the problem apple had in those days when I was offering, especially the twelve to macbook, is that IT was really confusing. If you had twelve hundred hours you spent on a laptop, which one you should get because they know they had the entry level map pro that and that is now more expensive. I think that cleared some of this up.

But if you do an ulterior, how do you position that in conjunction with the macbook air? That's tRicky um and IT seems to me like apple has all the parts to do an alter light. I got to a macbook would be incredible with apple silicon.

In fact, if if you remember when apple silicon was just a rumor we're talking about ARM max ah the everything everyone said that we said I was like dying token to macbook would be like the perfect thing with an army ship in IT. And I still think that's true, but I think that apple wants to keep sort of the bottom of the of the macbook line tighty. Er and they have done a really good job of IT, right? There's a thirteen in a fifteen, a air fourteen to sixteen six pro. I think you've got a really kind of a build the case that there's enough people out there that want this to to confuse the rest of the the buying sort of segment.

Yeah, this is what i'd like to see them place a bit. I think they should make a twelve ch ultra IT should have the apple uh cell unit ship in IT. So IT works of so it's sell on the radio.

Um I would probably increase the screen fidelity. I'd make IT clearly Better than a thirteen age macbook here. Put more storage in IT.

You do whatever you need to do to justify IT um being more expensive than an error. But a clear distinction point. Like when you go in in your buying one for your college kid, this is not what you want.

It's more expensive. It's smaller. This is for the people, the ultra light warriors. And and I know it's the fact that there are a trillion other company cuts both ways, right? It's like, no, they've got to focus on what really works. They ve got to keep the focus yeah ah you know we've seen all the presentations, but also it's like you're trAiling your company.

You could make an ultra light and I just think you could and and now like you know, there are people inside apple that are just itching, right, because of apple silicon like you have and now we could do IT so much Better, you know. And I want to see what that team would make. And and now they got the the keyboard madness out of their system.

No, I just I would like to see them make one. And I don't think this is really an ultra. And for people who want that there, there's nothing available for them except this one, which isn't really what they're looking for us.

So ah I do feel like at the bottom, the ultra light could exist. But you know the macbook are getting back to the things they are making with the addition of the fifteen inch is just in such great shape. I mean, it's IT is the default recommendation and and I think for almost everybody is the right recommendation. Just get do you want the big screen, a little screen you and um and you should probably add some stories to IT and and you're probably good yeah and that computer will last you a very long time.

You absolutely actually just went to this um with a friend of mine who was looking for a laptop for work just doing kind of regular office like they're all in google workspace. So he doesn't need anything, is not doing photo about the day.

I think that is this office work but he likes using a laptop just as a laptop but he has a docking station is stuff at his dad but he ended up going with the fifteen each map are with him, three just for the extra Green real estate when he's not at his desk. And i've talked to him a couple times since he got IT. And every time he sees on his right man, this laptop is so good as like, yeah, the fifteen inch really is I think everybody have talked to who has one, particularly the fifteen inches.

I really happy that apple did IT, and I hope it's doing well for them because I think they should continue to to offer the macbook are in two sizes. And I think the fifteen, the fifteen inch air mean that there really hasn't been A, A, A consumer notebook from apple larger than thirteen inches since, like the eyeball days, they had a twelve and fourteen H I book the long term maces will remember this. The fourteen ji book had the same number of pixel as the twelve inch, so that meant the screen rise like a density.

The P, P, I was lower the on, the, on, the fourteen and the twelve. So the fourteen eyes book screen looked muddy and a little blurry compared to the twelve IT was awful. Like about, nobody is doing that at this time, you know.

However, many twenty five years later that decide, okay, we need a larger consumer laptop. Again, they totally kill IT. And I think everyone with the fifteen really likes IT.

Last night, I have been working really hard late because i'm finishing up a field guide and I got a luck going on.

And i've been in the studio for like twelve hours, but I still had to do a bunch of uploads for you in the field guide, you you get the downloadable shortcuts for each video was in and like, so I took the I took the fifteen ends in the other room just to give myself a change of location and with that much Greens say I was able to do like multiple windows and it's just I was just smiling is just like, yeah this is a really nice computer you can do serious work out of fifty teenage screen in with the with the apple silicon for the cut type of work I was doing IT was perfectly fine yeah I love that but if you want something Better ah the macbook proline is also a really good shape with fourteen in sixteen in variance. We've already got the new in for chip. So you're onna get a nice a performance bump.

And I do think the in for is kind of like another ledge to stand on that makes sense. Like in two and m three were really nice improvements of them. One where in four feels like something different and we make kind of another big leap.

And so it's a good time to get in if you want to get a you know, a new computer and man the macbook pro. I again, the beauty of the max labs is I get to talk to people all the time who show listeners are people who are into the stuff in. So many of them are using these new makeup pros and just love them and understand why.

Yeah, I am super excited about this. We mentioned a second go the um three was calling in a stumbles way to way over selling IT but IT wasn't the jump that we had seen from in one to him to and that the in four looks excEllent against sixteen gabies of restarting battery life continues to be absolutely bonkers. Like I think ables quotes up to twenty two hours course that depends on the usage and all the stuff, but they're great.

And I know there was a little bit of little bit talk with these machines of like l gash that they didn't make a dinner or lighter and I don't want them to do that. Like I am so happy as someone who has watched on a makeup pro out for a couple of years, i'm so happy that it's a little bit thicker. So I get incredible battery life on the fourteen that is silent that I don't hear the fans unless it's i'm really pushing IT and that I got max safe for HDMI and the S D car slide like I don't want.

It's so it's so amazing how quickly people forget I don't want to go back to or exist underworld ports like IT was from twenty sixteen to that was a bad time. And I think when they rebooted the macbook pro and took the touch bar off and you know, made this A A usable, workable pro machine again, I think they made the right call and making IT a little bit thicker. And I am just fine with that.

Your lighter macbook air is an excEllent computer.

Exactly, exactly the problem in the twenty sixteen error was everything was the same, right? That the trade off between the air and the pro without a touch bar, the pro with a touch bar, they weren't that different. And now it's like, these are two as IT really distinct labb apple. And yes, they kind of look to saying they have the same design language, but there's really no confusing the two especially we have we talked about IT, especially talking about the screen. The maco screen is the best screen apple puts on a mac period and is the best .

Green they make period.

Ah yeah, it's so so good. And it's a little lost to me, my into being plugged into a studios display, which is the same basically the same display yed since the five K I like they need to this needs to spread to other things. And it's not to say the macbook air screen is bad, but it's it's so clear and you walk into a store, what's what and that's a good thing for everybody.

Yeah I mean, I think of the the air really you know Steve jobs as the one who came up with the car in the truck and allergy, but I think IT really applies to these two computers. The air is the car in the macbook prose, the truck is the beast. And and there is nothing you can do with a macbook pro.

Now it's like you at this point is that is saying nothing but I mean, just about anything you wanted do that you just have to go buy a big tower for you can do with a macbook pro properly expect yeah and like i've heard from so many people that are thinking about what you do like saying, hey, you know what I think it's time for me to just get one really bossy macbook pro and be that be my single computer. And there's a lot of people making that switch now because like so many friction problems have removed that computers are strong enough. They're great, they're mobile, they're not too heavy, but they're heavy enough.

The the process of plugging into a monitor, having IT just work is kind of solved at this point. And like there's just a lot of good reasons to to just pick one in, in the maki k pro is like therefore you if that's your decision, yeah okay. Um so we like the laptops.

I would like to see an alter light, I don't really know um in other other hardware. D like to see them explored is the in the touch Green. I mean, I think it's it's something that I just like to see them look into some of the stuff.

I do find myself reaching out to touch laptops when I spend a lot time on ipad, you know and I think there is I think there's something there you know to each his own I know like in the PC world, there's a lot of like what they call convertibles, like laptop slash tablet. I'm not as interested in that, but i'm sure we've got listings that would level one. But but I do think there is room to explore like this, this foreign tor of a keyboard with a screen attached to a, the opens up, you know, like a clam show.

That is the laptop design we've had for a very long time. And with the efficient ships, the Better displays touch screens. I feel like this room to explore a bit. I just wish apple would would throw you these out。

I mean, what's wrong with making a little bit of an an experimental laptop that you don't intend to sell as many of, but to get your foot in the door and get some user feedback on, I think that stuff like that is something they should spend a little more time. And I get some other stuff out of the lab. I'm sure they're making that stuff and playing with IT in the lab. And i'd like to see some of that stuff land .

in the apple store even as options, right? So you don't want to go all in on sailor, okay, let's have a sailor option for the mac books. You don't want to go on touch screens.

Let IT be an option. Even there can be a way to move the ball forward. And they seem unwilling to do that for whatever reason. Yeah.

I think to sell your thing is they want to do with their own radio. And the rumors are that the apple clio radios is going to end up in the the iphone S C. That gets released the next year that i'll be the first time they use IT in one of their products.

And I would I would hope that the mac doesn't far behind that because it's a lower volume. You thing in I can't imagine they wouldn't be thinking about that. okay.

Let's watch over the test tops. So the line right now is fairly complete. Um you know there's a lot of options.

You know you've got the imac a only in a twenty four in screen, which is bigger than the old smaller and smaller than the old big one. But it's it's definitely sold as kind of like the macbook air of desktop s. In fact, it's pretty much a macbook air in the next top.

Yeah yeah and and they've got to the import ship. Um you know we both heard from a lot of listeners that are like, I want my big imac. When are they gonna make that um any hope?

I don't think so. I think that ship has sailed. I think I think honestly, you're Better served with the studio display and a magni at this point.

Y I think the mac mini released in update was like the final nail in the coffin. You know, i'm i'm sure they could change if if the market really demands IT, but I think they're gonna like, yeah, people like our mac mines and they get one of our displays and we're good. And the nice thing about that is that was always a knocked against the imac is when the computer kind of got too old, but the screen was working fine. I felt like such a waste to get rid of IT with a perfectly functioning monitor. Ah but A A computer that is organs are now you get a display and then you can upgrade the thing you attached to IT over the years.

Yeah there there was this article on the verge about was that their imac review and basically he was the imac is beautiful but it's the wrong foreign factor for basically everybody and like I don't really agree with, I think there are places with the IMAX to make sense.

But I just got me thinking like and looking at this list in notion, like apple makes a lot of desktop computers when seventy five percent of the computers are solar laptops like, yeah, I think apple still cares about the desktop form factor, and that's exciting. And I think those of us who, if they are not using more right now, really like this top max, like it's a bit out of wax. I think company they make how much investment they have in IT. It's also good because there are people unlike uh the verge article would suggest that the imac just says IT is in twenty four inch best for is in fun colors that that's the perfect machine for them and and they're happy that apple makes .

them yeah and then just like there's the macbook air and the macbook pro in the laptop, we have a mac mini in a max studio in the desktop, which kind of serve the same rules yeah .

yeah it's it's interesting, right? Sort of that parallel yeah I mean.

it's it's so clear and me we're just a few weeks into this new mac minute redesign. But if you want to get a dress up computer for most people, one of them like mini builds is is going to be exactly what you need, you know yeah I mean, there is apple silicon.

You can get that up to approach ship, I mean for wear in a weird spot right now because of the the the three not making IT to the next studio where the the mac mini is right now over clock, the max studio, which I don't think is what apple intends. But even even if they were had the same generation ships in them, the mac mini is enough computer for almost everybody. And I just feel like that's to go to again. Like when people ask me if they want a laptop, I tell macbook care if they want a best top, I told mac mini.

yeah, I think it's the right answer. And if he doesn't have enough ports or something like you can easily solve that with a thunderbolt that's probably bigger and hotter than the magma I itself, which is just kind of funny yeah, I think apple really knocked IT out of the park here. And you know the max studio, i'm sure will get the the m for max and ultra down the road.

But a lot of people don't need that much horsepower and the ym four and and four pro would would be more than enough for them. So yeah, agree. I think if even for a desktop mac, this is the one. And I think it's going to stay that way for a while because the way theyve positioned IT with the max studio kind of being the the upper half of the range and the max mini kind of being the the the the bottom half the range or most people, I think I think they're really kind of made sense of this lineup. But uh, pretty clearly, I think me .

even for my needs, I think that me they're a high in mac mini or a low in mac studio guy um but I I could absolutely get by with a mac mini even though I probably would never buy one because of, I guess, ego. I'm not sure I would want a max studio. I just love the max studio so much. Let's get over that one. I mean, now IT looks bigger because of the existence of .

them yeah IT looks like it's this.

It's an extremely small, very powerful thing on your desk with a ton of IO in the back. I don't have any of those plug in you know um devices because I I can get everything I need plugged into this thing. And I just love this computer.

I like you. I don't know what my future holds like. I think i'm good for a while. I want an end to max studio. I think like maybe the m six generation is when I look to see if it's worth upgrading and I don't know at that point, i'll get another mac studio or if i'll get a mac with pro and follow you down that route, I don't know. But but I really have this computer and like it's it's like something between a mac pro and a traditional like you know I mac it's it's a category that really hasn't existed before. And I think IT just like perfect, perfect for me at least.

IT is the one odd bother because we have not we did not see in ethiopia a and we have not seen the and four alter yet. I think the rumors are spring or maybe W D C for the mac studio in the mac pro to get updated. So they are a little behind right now, which does give the mac many a kind of even a brighter shine then I think, yeah, that would have otherwise IT totally deserving a wall praise that IT has gotten, I think. But that's a little bit weird, right? If you need to high and desktop right now from from apple is like, well, I don't .

there's a great they are going to walk you over to the macbook st table. Yes, I think IT, when you will get to an inform max idio, and it'll be it'll be a beast and that it'll be great. And I don't think you know this is temporary.

I I guess that is one thing. We didn't mention one in our discussion of a silicon. Do you think the payscale is IT acceptable of, you know, in one into into him three, are they at a clip that makes sense to you?

I think so in the later until years, IT was every year to hear and a half, and those were far less notable updates than what we're getting now. And yeah, I think that totally works.

And yes.

my my one complain is like what's going on at the high end. I don't think you're hiding machines, desta machines to be left in the cold like they have been. But I suspect that's a one often that and I think this will be smooth. They are moving forward.

Yeah well, I mean, the like you said earlier, the m three kind of like cat, a problem in terms of getting the ultra can a ship out of an three IT was very expensive in the process. It's I don't i'm no expert on this, but if I understand the the dying shrink h had costs with IT in. They got Better making them with a new build africa with the designator is but the m for is kind of a new path.

And I think they just decided that was easier to skip IT then to trying to make that work with the highest ines. I don't know that it'll be true with E M. Five, you know.

I mean, no, I don't know that they are going to skip a generation with these upper and desktops, but that could be the plan because it's a small percentage of the market onest. Ly, if you have an in two max studio, you're not really hurting at this. You know you have to wait another year, I guess.

So be IT. If you really must have the latest and greatest, then you need to get on the laptop front. But I think for most folks, you get one of these and you hold onto IT for a while. So yeah, i'm not sure it's as big of a deal as podcasts ers make IT out.

Although I will say, you know, the big question mark, mac hardware of all of them, honestly, is the is the mac pro? I mean, it's it's like it's not clear to me like did they just not in end? Was the next studio gonna be IT at some point? Was that going to be just a new name for the mac pro? But know they came out with a mac pro and it's really no different than the max studio with the ultra chip, except it's got some more expansion, but it's not like a process improvement.

And there was a lot of rumors in the early days of apple silicon that they had another tear to the chip. Know you basically everything is you know doubled you you get you get the standard chip and then double that to a pro. Then you double, make two prose for max, make two maxes for an ultra.

And then there were some kind of thing, where was going be too ultras for some new level of chip. And and there were rumors about that. And I just didn't show up for whatever reason.

And and we've been talking about this for years when they first an automatic pro. Is this a placeholder for whenever they can make that super you, that double ultra ship? And this, i'll be the computer that holds sad. I don't know that right now, the mac prose, in a weird spot IT is.

I mean, the only thing that is that a part is you can throw P, C, I cards and IT that aren't G, P U. That was sort of. The other question is like, well, are they gonna offer the ability to upgrade the GPU over time? Well, an apple silicon that's all on die, right? It's all in part of it's all in the the system on a chip.

It's different. You know I had the twenty nine macpro and IT came with whatever bed G P U was in and I upgraded IT, uh down the road and is like you you take the cover, you the think the case off and you put a new GPU in IT your your book B M. New capability. That's not how apple silicon works and doesn't seem like that's gonna be the way apple silicon works.

And so I think the real question is that how many people are putting P, C, I cards in an apple silicon mac? And I am sure there are people out there like this is a must have feature and I suspect that my pro will continue, but I don't think it's ever gonna be like on its own at the top of the line the way that I once was. I think it's always going to share the crown with the the max studio.

What would you like to see apple do in terms of hardware for the desktops to take some risks? What would you like to see them make?

I mean, I would love to see that whatever is beyond an ultra, like the m for extreme or something right, and really set the macro apart. I think that's my lowest thing fruit, not that I would buy that machine like i'm not in that market that way. Overkill for me um and I scratched my mac carriage with the twenty sixteen, but I think that would be exciting to see what apple could do there to make the mac pro like he would be superhuman.

So like really make IT stand on its own four feet, like separate from the the max studio. That, and I think you know, as much as something they gonna do IT. I think a bigger imac, I think people won IT. But again, I don't I don't see how about doing that either. Really.

I would love them to make that convertible imac that occasionally I I get wistful about. Microsoft made the, I think was called the surface studio conserves. IT was an imac with a really clever hinging IT.

And then IT basically kind of hinges down to a drafting board in in my mind, IT would be a mac when it's vertical and then switch over to ipad to s when you make IT flat, you know, when you bring me down to drafting board mode. And that would be like with apple silicon, you could totally pull that off. And and I think that would be amazing.

But I just feel like that's like a bridge too far. I don't think I think we're gonna lucky if they just keep supporting desktops the way they are adopted. Going to make my dream computer.

But the man I would love for that if I if they gave me the rains, that would be like, yeah, just make one, just make one to see what happens, you know um but you know, to answer you a question earlier, these things we're gonna last so long, people might be tempted to buy a rotating imac that turns into a giant ipad. I don't know. The mac is forty years old. Is the hardware okay? I mean, is this way if if you when the clock back and you look at that first mac with the handle on your desk, is is this current map looks like something that that you would imagine forty years later?

Yeah, I think that's a funny question because there's so much about the original mac is actually more true than IT has been in, in recent years. Like yeah, there was a lot of commodity hardware in the original mac, but the idea like IT being a closed box so like you don't have to worry about what's inside IT just does magic.

Yeah still that kind of right.

Yeah yeah. I think onest ly more true than has been in a long time. Yeah, because everything is sort in like you don't can't upgrade IT, like the appliance air quads appliances ness of the hardware is just as true the day as I was back then, if not more so.

You know, I think if you SAT in original, original macintosh user, right, you put him in a coma. And actually, before you wake him up today, you said him in front of a and for imac, like, oh, like, yeah, a lot of the same kind of vibes are here, right? It's a friendly all in one, you know, were still using mice of key horns. Notice in the screen the mini bar still the top like IT is funny. How much of the mac has been so consistent .

over its four decades? Yeah, yeah. And and we've set IT enough that i'd like to see them be a little more liberal with with hard ware design and try some new stuff out. Yeah but I think we would probably be that get weird.

You know we talked about IT with the iphone last week.

like it's okay to get weird yeah. And and it's a big business and they make a lot of money of these computers. I'm not saying that you replace the macbook here with something weird. Yeah, i'm saying put something weird, add something weird.

you know yeah, put IT down the of the table on the apple store. No, no, no. Notice was that thing know?

And the number when they made an ipod with no button, I mean, they were willing to take risks with big products in the past, right?

Yeah, yeah. And I did .

didn't really work, but they took a shot at IT.

They like they sure did when no one like that thing.

Yeah alright.

a software .

yeah in the mac that's also forty years old. Mac O S is forty years old.

IT is, I mean, even the macos ten era know started in two thousand. So we're twenty four almost twenty four years into the macos ten era is actually we've been in that error longer than the classic macos now um I think so koa is a great release. You know it's hard to judge I find IT hard to judge machakos releases because there they happen annually and that's been that way for a long time.

And I still disagree with IT, but that's okay. Like i'm not going to get my way. But year to year IT means that not a lot changes in like it's gna hard to like, okay, what came in venture or what came in sonoma?

Um but I think this year in particular with zoia, I think apples uh features that bring the iphone into the max. So iphone mirrors a iphone notification mirrorlike. Those features are, I think fantastic.

I use the iphone mirrors all the time. I just sort of blog post about that notifications like we talked about IT a little bit last week. You got to turn them off like you don't need all of your iphone notifications going to your mac.

I just have a select few. Now you can manage that on a product basis on the iphone and settings. But I love that apple is is really continue to build a continuity, something that we saw with I O S eight. And I think l capital, I think was the same year about that time. Continuity in the begin was very simple rise like, oh, I have a pages document open here and I pick up my ipad ready for me.

Like, but they've continued to to lay or more more features on to this to a point of like now I just used my iphone, like it's a makeup and I just sits on the charter at my desk at work. It's awesome. And I I want more of IT like a set of my blog post.

I want that invision. We talk about all that. But I think apple this year particular bringing its ecosystem closer together, making the mac a more central point for the other things you do. I think that's good for the mac. And so while that can be hard, sometimes I think that kind of suss out like wind this get Better or when did that change? If you zoom out the last three or four macos s releases clearly have been about the mac, should have the same features, should have the even unique features to the ecosystem that pull all these things together.

I agree, I think it's a very solid Operating system in the year to year. Updates are very much quality of living things at this point. Um I feel like there was a concerted effort that started about ten years ago that has now completed updated in the file system like a lot of that kind of under the hood stuff of the Operating system has been cleaned ed up.

I feel like they've done tons of work on security in terms of locking down the system. So it's harder to you know break in. Is that like you'll dot bad file days, right? You really um your mac is more secure than it's ever been for good reason.

So all of that is good. That being said, uh, if you went to Sparky forty years ago for summer late, hands on the back and said, what do you think this will be like in forty years? I would have assumed that would have been much more how two thousand like I feel like, you know, there will be a voice interaction and you know a lot of things that are now starting to seem possible with the rise of A I and some other technologies.

I thought we would have already been there, but I hope that apple is continues to kind of push towards that stuff because I I really do feel like a keyboard and mouse after forty years. Then I know I know I just felt like we would have something Better and IT would be more intuitive, like the reason this show exists because people need to learn to be power users because, you know, it's not good enough yet without you bringing the power user juice. And I thought we would be farther than that by now. But but I also looking back see why it's not know and but but we might be at the crossroads of something much Better with just kind of emerging .

technologies. Yeah mean, it's interesting like from the user experience perspective too, especially counting from the maoist era forward. Like if you go back and look a screen chart of the public data of macos stn and you jump straight to zoia and you can do that on vital pixels um in the screen chat library .

yeah is the .

same thing like theyve add a lots of complexity and like lots of new things. But I think that peace to two things, what you nail the first, like we haven't had a paratime shift in in terms of input in control that I think a lot of people thought we would have. And apple has tried like series been the map for a while.

But the idea you're gonna you to like, find all your files that are P D F with dogs in them like this is not how people use their computer on the the other part of IT is like IT speaks to how good apple got IT on the first try. They like, yes, early versions of macos and early version of macos tent particular had some weird ideas in them, but the basics were so good in the beginning that they've really been able to build on those over time. And they ve evolved IT, right?

Like you IT doesn't look the same and it's got more controls. I you know this year, we got out all the window management staff, but the bones were really good from the beginning. And I think that's something that they don't get enough. Cardiff.

yeah and and honestly, just kind of get into the feelings part. I I think the mac is in great shape and very happy. The hardware is great, the software solid. Um there's things i'd like to see them do differently.

But a few years ago, like we were actively wondering, well, what happens to a show called back power users of apple stops making the mac? No, yeah, that's not a working far. The mac is just such, such a utility player.

yeah. And just so important. And they will have to take IT from my cold, dead hands as they say.

And if you're still worried about that, look no further than the apple silicon transition. Apple would not have done this if the mac was going away, right? IT would just linger on intel and slowly fade away.

And that is not what has happened. They continue to make massive investments in the mac. They just redesigned the mac mini like the mac line is not going anywhere. And yeah, that was a scary time that that five or six years was really hard. But they've come out the other side.

And I I think the mac has renewed enthusiasm with an apple and and in the user base, I think people are excited about the map in a way they haven't been in a long time. And it's it's very encouraging as someone who truly like out of all of these platforms, the mac is the one I care the most about. You know that question of like, oh, if you to get if you only could use one upper product, what would be I would be the mac. I would give up all the rest of IT in a keep my macbook. And so as that person, i'm very happy that is in the place that IT is yeah .

you know i'm the same. My answers is the same. As great as the iphone is, I need my mac.

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okay. So a new piece of hardware that we've never covered in state of the platforms, vision pro. Welcome to the state of the platform vision pro.

Can I I have an opening statement on vision pro please? I I like the vision pro. I I i've been listening to all these podcasts ers dump on IT and I just don't understand.

I I have I understand that why people don't like IT and feel like it's not what I could be. But earlier, I was saying apple needs to place some bets. I feel like this is a bet and they released the saying it's kind of beta in a lot of ways, right?

I mean, they had they weren't exactly sure what people would do with IT. We're still figuring out the software situation there. There's clearly a lot of improvement to be made, but I like and use the vision pro regularly even though it's still rough around. I just yeah.

I think you are more optimistic about IT or or more enthusiastic maybe than me. But IT is really exciting anytime there is a new platform. And I think like the ipad, like the more of the more have thought about this in preparing these two episodes in the really kind of being reflective on this.

The more I sort of come to realized the vision pro has a lot in common with the ipad sort of in terms of of where IT is. But um we get on a second, I guess I guess we can stay on hardware for a minute. But the hardware for like A A version one is incredible.

IT is the only device like this that has not given me emotion sickness. Everything else i've tried has made me feel sick and i'm i'm mixing insider to that like i'm i'm not reading in a car. I can barely be a passenger in a car after a while. But all of the hardware, the im to the r one, which does this like dedicated processing input staff, uh, the screen refreshes, ate all of that comes together and and make something that I can really use. That's a first for me and all credit to the hardware team that made that possible because I was nervous, I said on the show, and are connected as like i'm really afraid that i'm going to spend all this money not able to use the thing because that makes me sick and i'm very happy report that's not true.

Yeah I mean, IT is a version one hardware like that. Apple makes IT with nice materials and they're trying to make you look nice, but it's bulky. The battery isn't contained in the device.

You got run a core down your shirt. I I am sure that is not like the in game for them with this product. But the same time, IT is what IT is to get IT out the door and run hardware.

That's enough that Steven doesn't get sick when he wears IT. And I think that is kind of like I really think that is kind of like the entry level for them. If they wanted to make something that had a framing and sufficient graphics, that, you know, most people will be okay using IT.

And and I think they that was a mission accomplish. But of course, IT could be Better, right? I mean, you know that even like the way like I am plugged when i'm done, but I have to go in and shut IT down and I am plugged and like when I wanna start IT up again, it's a thing.

It's not like an ipad where get up and you push button or Frankenstein other apple device um it's a process you know um and all of that can get Better. But I just like I like wearing IT. I like working in IT.

I'm in there two, three times a week. I do a lot of writing in there. I I consume a lot of media.

I finally got around to watching silo because you told me I needed to watch IT. Yeah, I haven't watched the new season yet, but i've almost finish the first season. And I love going in there and watching that show in the theater mode in vision pro. I having a movie later in my house. It's just I don't know.

I just I think it's more of A I think it's more of A I just feels to me like to talking to people that, that haven't use IT or bought them and are unhappy with the purchase that like it's a big bus and I think it's kind of what they expected from its the first version of something that they're working on for the future. And I sometimes I think i'm too much of a fan boy, but I I like IT. You know, I to say I think there's a turn wrong with IT.

Like I said, the hardware needs work. H the software is shocking to me that like apple's own productivity apps are still that negative conditional. I mean, after worn version too now and they're still not out. So like like how is like reminders not a native you know, when army focus pulled off very quickly and you know the and a bunch of other productivity understood as well. So I feel like that's kind of bad.

The new feature in beta with the the new wide screen mac display has suddenly made using my mac in IT much more use as IT is a massive improvement and if we ve tried to yet. But so now the mac becomes a screen when i'm in vision pro, so I can do mac things in there as well. So there's good things about the software.

The third party story is just kind of sad. I feel like there's some good stuff in there bit a lot of developers are sitting and waiting. Yeah and and I don't know apple needed to seed more hardware out if they needed to do work on developer relations or whatever. But is there's a bunch of apps that I think would benefit from being there that just aren't there. So I told when people tell me all the complaints about IT, I absolutely hear you and agree with on a lot of them, but i'm optimistic about the platform because it's delighted that strap that thing on and work and be able to put myself in new semi or somewhere else. And I find IT just a real key player for me now even if i'm the only person in podcast oline, IT does.

I think the I think you're write about some of the harbor stuff being a bit weird. I need the battery life particularly kind of not great and mine because I don't use that. I often like takes a long time to boot up and like sometimes I got on the gun plug.

The thing like there's some wear this around that. But and I totally agree with you about the the sweet of apple apps, not only is IT frustrating as a user of those apps, but honestly, IT also sets an example. First, third party developers like if apple is not excited about bringing its own apps of the vision pro, why should developers? It's really pensive.

And I can tell you if someone who has worked on a APP in visions O S, you can only get so far with the semur tor like IT really pays off to actually have one of the things and run your APP on IT. And that's an expensive proposition. And i've seen a lot of developers on on mass dan in other places talk about, look, my users run here.

I I can't really justify the expensive of owning one of these things in the development time of keeping my vision O S version on my APP up to date with the iphone version. And and that's all that's solve if the user base just really takes off. But there are people who aren't going to use this thing until their apps are on IT. And you do have two degree at a chicken and a problem .

that I think yeah agreed in the same thing with I an even mention content. I feel like apple needs to not wait for the content to come to the platform. They need to spend some of their money to make sure he gets her to pay for.

And they're doing that to an extent, but I expected more, Frankly. And and that seems like that wheel is turning fast now, but not fast enough. I really do think of all apple product pleases i've ever experienced. This is the feels the most like a beta product.

Um the the original apple watch felt a little bit like IT was too early when I got released like IT wasn't fully cooked, but this one really feels like something like, okay, well, let's put this out there and see what happens. And and I I understand why that's a complaint that that can also be a compliment. But I can tell you if IT is a ba product, i'm finding ways to use IT and and i'm generally positive about IT.

I don't know you know what the future holds. I hope they have you know, I hope you've got the the wear with all to keep developing IT and see where this goes. But I do feel like this is a product that forty years after a release, if they're still making IT well look very different. It's not gonna be the similar that we see between a modern and an old mac. I think it's going to be something entirely different in the future.

I think so too. I tend to think that the future, the other companies i've shown us of, like you see through the product and not through cameras that that feels like the direction and not sure passed through, is the the ultimate destination in terms of the the visuals of IT. But I think the other part of IT is like as good as the controls are, like the eye tracking and the hand tracking like teams worked very well.

I want to say something here. I thought about IT feels like visionless feels like an ipad that's even harder to use from from a power is a perspective. You're doing a lot of window management, all the window managment yourself, you are bouncing between things in a way that is kind of clunky.

And you ultimately dealing with apps that are really outside of a small number of upset of really made for the for like the spatial environment, like some games and some entertainment experiences. But from the protectively standpoint, the apps or ipad apps, you know, they may not be stuck in compatibility more. They may have the fancy visuals.

But in terms of complexity, that's where a visionary s is, is much closer to ipad OS than macos. And that for someone like me, or someone who is really max centric in their, in their usage, know, this thing is not a computer, right? This thing is a, not the way that I want to use a computer.

This thing, incredible for entertainment, is incredible for connection with the spacial al face time calls. But it's hard like I don't i'm not thinking about this in the same category and thinking about my macbook. And I think apple wants IT to get there and maybe I will, but it's not there right now.

Maybe we should start doing some V P, U planning calls in IT because I almost never use IT to talk to other people. I mean, you know, I just don't really have other people to talk to in IT. But but the eye tracking thing, it's good enough to launch apps and move around the interface, but it's not good enough to do work. That's the thing like there's nothing more frustrating than willing to click a button looking at the button, tapping your finger and then the button next to IT clicks, right? And and that happens. I mean, there's a reason when I work on this thing, i'm sitting in a chair with a keyboard and track pt in my lap because I can't rely on the the visual, the eye acting thing to be refined enough for the kind of work I want to do and they want i'm actually doing work and and and I want to be able to click a button without having to like, tell my eyes to look harder at a button. You know.

that's early a thing. I know look look .

more as yeah. So yeah, there's there's work to be done. But i'm just in in terms of feelings. I am I like that this exists and I get enjoyment out of using IT. I like know there's a lot of IT that I see the direction it's going and I hope they continue down the road.

Yeah I think they will. I think people who wonder, like is this going to uh to go away or is this a dead in? But I don't I don't think that's the case at all.

I think they're going to continue to invest in IT and maybe IT won't be as fast as apple once thought that would be. But I don't think this thing is going anywhere. I think .

it's going to fork at some point. It's going to be apparent glasses, but it's also gonna a full immersive thing because I think the immersive thing is really useful. I'd like that. I like there to be both products.

Actually, a one thing I meant to ask you a second ago, when you're talking about, uh, entertainment and IT are using airports or are using .

the button audio, the button audio, it's really good.

It's really good. I think they really know that. I think a lot of discussion on the the vision pro rightly signers around the visuals, but they did do a good job with the audio as well.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of like the kind of I don't watch a lot of TV and entertainment, but there's a lot of great little like many series, you know the side I kind of space over fantasy space that's kind of the stuff that that I want to watch. My wife and kids are zero interest in IT, so this is like the perfect place for me to go do that. Like now they've got a new doing one out on max. I haven't watched IT yet, but when I get around do IT.

i'll do IT in the vision pro. Yeah yeah. I think that I think that's really like they're really done a good job.

But that but IT does like ten like right ngs order that thought is that that's fantastic if you are watching IT by yourself, like you said, right IT is is one a reason like my wife is not a friend of this product and why I lives in my office. Um SHE doesn't like the barrier IT creates right is not something up like about to a lot of heat. Write fully.

So about the video that launch of like the guy taking the space al photo of his kid, the birthday party, like special photos are incredible. And they look, I mean, the experience is kind of overwhelming. But hey, i'm looking through this thing that will change.

Like if they fork this and IT becomes a pair glasses, this kind of part of the argument goes away. But the vision pro inherently is a lonely product and that's great. If you're on an airplane or on a train or by or buy yourself in a hotel room on a trip, you just want to uh watch a football game and and or watch a movie and that's fine.

There is something different about IT than even the iphone, which is also can be a very longer device and distract us. But distance between us and the people around us and apples are doing giant airports. Solution of that, like having fake eyeballs on the front of IT, is in a solution like that creepy. And I think it's gna go away.

And I might actually saying that anybody listening to go out and spend thirty thousand dollars all of these things, right? Yeah, yeah. But but I I can like getting a peak of the future in playing with the stuff and figure outward fits in.

And for me, that there was a worthwhile investment. How about you? Are you if someone, if apple said he will give you your money back today, if you give us back the thing, would you turn IT in?

I feel like for me, like the line of like I need IT for my work like the vision pro is so close to that line, it's basically on top of IT like IT is useful for things like this. IT is useful working on which math, uh, there are uses ford in my work, but IT is basically entirely a work device for me. I'm not watching stuff on IT.

I'm want to face now called a couple times of months and friends on IT. But if I didn't this for a living, I would want my money back. I do this for living and like is basically a coin flip.

You don't really have a choice honestly yeah because of what you do but but yeah I get I kind of hear what you're saying yeah if that wasn't for the fact you doing these things, this wouldn't be for you. Especially if you're not using IT for like media consumption in doing any of the productivity stuff.

Like then what's the point of only in IT? 哼 i'm very curious to see how the development cycle others works。 The update we ve got from visionless one to two felt like kind of a point five update.

yeah. But in fairness, they just released the product this year, so it's not like they had a lot of time. I would like to see you know how aggressive they are with the software updates, the gestures and what not when they have a full year to develop IT.

So i'll be very curious to see what we get in, in june of next year. And i'm you know like I said, I like the product. I understand why it's a very small seller and why most people are not interested in IT. And I know there are a lot of things that need fixing, but I am glad that exists.

And it's it's the first year. And thinking about like the apple watches first year or the iphones first year, they sort of struggled in weird ways to the ipad, I think, is the only one in sort of recent history that I kind of note IT out of the gate like this is what the ipad good for.

And all these up here, because iphone was already successful, the vision pro is more like the apple watch in terms of, not sure how that fits, not sure what is good for if. Remember, the original apple watch pitch was like Kevin litters up there demming a billion things your watch is going to do for you. But here we are, ten years later.

And its notifications of fitness. And when they pitched a vision pro IT, was Allen die up there showing us a billion things this thing can do and is that gonna come down to entertainment and face time calls like maybe we're in that face deal is just it's a bit more awkward and it's a bigger magnet for criticism. When IT cost thirty five hundred dollars, an apple very clearly was very excited about IT in a way that I I think tim cook personally was excited about this. I'm not sure I felt that in the other thing that happened in his rain in terms of product, maybe other than the apple watch. And so all of that, you know, IT turns up the heat on this product and apples gotta continue to move forward.

okay? You want to switch over apple TV and apple TV plus?

Yeah, I I think we put this together because they are hard to separate.

You've got they have the .

same name of my d yeah. So you have the apple TV hardware that runs the apple TV APP through which you can want to apple TV plus content. And the TV APP is also one about of things like what are we are doing is very complicated per tradition.

Maybe we start with the apple T V hardware. It's a couple of years old now. It's powered by the eight fifteen bionic from the iphone thirteen series. Um the you got the new series remote. It's four k it's doby vision hr plus like the the hardware seems a pretty good to me.

Yeah, I think I agree. You linked the daring fireable article john guba road. You arguing that, no, they should make a sick. They should keep doing what they are doing. And I largely agree with you. I thought one of the big points from john's article that I would agree with is that i'd love to see IT get down to one hundred dollars like it's currently one thirty here. One twenty nine get IT down to ninety nine if you can yeah it's .

it's a little too expensive. And they also do this weird thing where there's two models. So the hundred and twenty nine dollars sixty four gabatha storage to this day, no one knows the storage is four on the apple TV like knows everyone in our store to on apple TV like known is downloading tones the games.

It's fine. That one is wifi only. And there are people who do want gig a bit ether net to their apple T V. You don't need IT, but people want IT at that one is one forty nine and IT doubles the storage.

Um but the awareness there I think you know maybe keeps the more expensive one about told degree nine nine dollars is where this should be. It's competing with things that are much cheaper than IT. And that's weird and it's always kind of been that way with the apple T V, but it's especially two years into IT, like I could see this thing going to come down in Price, some .

something about the apple T V. This is kind of tides over the hardware and the software is that modern T, V manufacturer make a lot of their money selling your data, right? You get A T, V, you connected to the internet, then they they know so much about you.

And apple doesn't really do that. You hook up an apple TV and it's just the box. It's the internet for you and I feel like that is a big advantage of the apple TV.

If your privacy focused like my tvs, I never connect them to the internet. I don't get like hardware or firm more updates to my tvs, whatever they are. When I take a out of the box from costco, that's what they are until the TV dies and just plug a apple T V puck into IT, not your T V.

And I think there's an argument for apple to make with that. Um if if they can get their act together with apple intelligence, there may be some way you can leverage that to make a Better TV view and experience I don't know um so long as you can do IT locally and safely and privately. Yeah but but I think if there's a future apple T V, it's to argue that it's Better rather than try to get down in the like low Price but sticks yeah .

yeah I agree you tvs should not be the internet only bad things happen. Um mine I put on the net everyone once in a while just to make sure IT is up to date and then I take IT back off. I don't warning that going on.

I don't even know if L G does IT, but two T V manufactures do IT. Um I think the the other kind of interesting thing here, hardware wise, is that apple really struggled in the remote department for a long time and I is pretty good. And I think what most people want is for to be find my compatible yeah .

because I don't .

know about you but in my house with you know two high schools ls in an element school kid no one knows where the apple T V modes at any time. And I even three d printed this thing. IT sits on top of the apple T V in its a little bin in its stores, the T V remote and the apple T V remote up, right? Do you like government into IT? It's like, hey, this is whether remotes go. No, whenever does IT, it's always gone.

But the couch, the couch is IT. yes. Yeah, we are about cRicky dads about that self. A few years ago, I bought a thing of amazon on epitope ink in the notes. IT was nine dollars, still nine books.

It's kind of bulky, but IT has an air tag holder in IT, and I just put air tagged on them and occasionally I R tag the remote. And I find IT like in the refrigerator or between two cushions or whatever. And this little rober thing I recommend is as good as as two years old.

And historically, when I bought those ruber inserts for the apple TV, they would always get loose after a year. So like the rubber starts to to sophy or relax. I think because of the bulkiness of this thing, it's never done that everything holds together really well. Yeah that's so if you want if you want a nine dollars solution to that problem, well, nine plus the cost of an attack, yeah yeah what .

you're always on sale, by the way, never painful Price for your tags. Someone always has them on sale. Um my dad let me think that the day he bought a four pack best buy was having them for black friday he know and was like IT was way cheaper and yes to go do IT like um the um say I think the hardware is yes culp he is old.

Yes it's a little too expensive but I think they're do a good job with IT um mine I think like yours and like most people like I never think about my apple TV hardware like I never acts up IT never doesn't anything weird, is just super solid and that's what I want in right we talk about the appliance nature of the mac that's super important to me at least and something that in my entertainment system is like, no, no, no. Like you will never misbehave, like you're always going to be there. You're always going to wake up and I hit the button. It's it's been very good.

I feel like the lost opportunity in the software stack is something a kin to panics. Old status board. Yeah A T V APP you know where like because because it's site into your apple IT would be easy enough to do.

I make a map APP that fed IT like news feds and your calendar and you know things that are your reminders list or whatever. And you could have that run like a satisfied independently connected to your cloud data. And i'm just kind of surprise apples never made that for the TV because IT IT just makes a lot of sense.

And I think that would be like the perfect way to get people to buy them for like you know the conference room TV and things like that to yeah and honestly, there's no apps that really do IT either every six months or so. I look through the T, V, P store to see if somebody's made one. And they've been a few, but they've been very, you know lackluster.

yes. And maybe it's just something that apple means to make. But but I feel like if I had the the software team might say, guys, come on, just just make this thing.

You know there's rumors of like some sort of thing. You mount your wall that like controls your whom kid and audio stuff in your house. Like maybe that would have some benefit to this, like apple TV dash thing.

And they'll ve done a little bit. Like if you have home kit cameras, it'll give you little preview when a camera goes off. Like if you know the alarmist set or something, you get notification, but they could do so much more.

And I think you're write in particular in corporate spaces where it's basically just made a tory but an apple T V in for airplay purposes. Um if if your TV doesn't supported directly, then um why not is just like a extra benefit. So that would be really cool.

You want to switch over the apple TV plus?

Yeah it's a before we get to the content side, there's something on the business side that I think is really interesting. And I was kind of aware of this, but until I looked into IT for this episode, de honestly was overwhelmed. Apple TV plus, the service is on just a huge list of televisions made by SONY and rogue.

And on the fire T, V in android, TV in google, T V in light, these these things are, you know, samsung and visio sonic all over the place. Apples gone out and made deals just for TV plus, not the whole TV APP with, like everything else, but apple TV plus content a being available on other hardware. And that's really interesting because apple Normal does that do that.

And there is a version of apple that would say no to watch you know soo to watch ted lasso, you got to an ipad and apple TV. I think they realized that their content businesses different than some of these other things. I find that really encouraging that they're doing the work to get content into a more people's houses kind of regardless of their set up.

Yeah, agreed. And and I think it's the right move. I mean, if they want this apple T, V, plus to be success, they want as many people watching IT is possible even if you don't want to buy an ipad, you know yeah and and I think the apple T, V plus has the content, right? They've done a really good job of of of coming up with great country.

Mean, ted lasso, kind of the poster child of this. But we talked about silo earlier the episode. I really thought foundation was well made.

I mean, as somebody who grew up reading the books thinking that you could never make IT into a successful show, they make compromises. And i'm sure here from foundation and that tell me that they messed up. And I think I think they're in a pretty good job with that.

And like the types of things that Green lighting are kind of like on the nerd spectrum. So it's all kind of appealing to me, and I did not expect that I would enjoy their shows as little as I watch T V. A lot of IT as apple TV plus. And that's not out of some loyal data. Apple just they're making the stuff I want to watch yeah .

I think you're doing a really good job with the content. And there is definitely a lot of beauty science fight stuff, but then you have something like shrinking, which is this incredible, thoughtful, heart warming T V. show.

That the opposite of I fight like the bread is also really impressive. And I think a lot of people think about size fier fantasia y first, I think that's where apple's strongest. But they are they are branching out of that.

And um yeah i've had a pretty good hit rate on on apple TV plus. Uh they did uh a short series about war two pilots that was unbelievable. Good OK.

yeah. Now they're writing the checks to make that happen. And there's been reporting that maybe they were writing bigger checks and they should have and maybe they're going to make some adjustments.

It's also weird that abbot v police started with no back call ogun of like other content rag netflix, they have netflix originals and then they paid to have friends or the office or you know, whatever else. I just named two nbc shows that are probably not on IT, but they pay for other content to be on their service. Apple started out not doing that, but now sometimes is the right stuff, not all the time and is not a very big selection.

But I think they're also dipping their there are toes into that. And I think it's all very compelling. And I think that going back to that sort of wear twenty eighteen, like apple TV plus, if if then member like the lights were out like, boom gennifer innocent, stand on stage and let's go out like, boom, someone else is there. Go to watch that. You note sometime it's it's weird, yeah but all of us like.

what?

What do you do IT like the history was you made planet of the apps, which is like the all time T, V. show. But they've come so far by hiring the right people, paying for content, working with good studios. I think it's all very impressive. I really it's surprising to me how good how good I think they've done .

yeah i'm gonna have to watch um shrinking your not the first person to tell me that that's a good show. So great. I love to get .

that one of my list. It's a tear jerk at times.

But okay, I can take IT. I can take IT. It's interesting as we record the show, we're starting to hear news reports of apple showing interest in making A T, V, which is like an on again, off again thing.

We've fert from apple. I I don't want to get into the rumors. That's not really the point of the state of the platform show. But just almost curious, do you think apples should make A T V? I don't think so.

I think if you're talking about the great cycles, TV are like the longest great cycle, and I just don't see them. I mean, they would be at the high end, right? They would be competing with a really nice stuff. Others don't see what they could bring to IT that's different than anybody else. Like maybe they would have some interesting spac audio stuff, but then put that in in a sound bar, put that in some kind of home part thing, like I just don't see the benefit.

I feel the same as you and not having seen what they have in mind. And maybe you've got some great idea, but to me, like put that money to just continue to make the apple T V box Better you know find a way to incorporate apple intelligence. Let us use the benefits of apple software within T, V. Don't make us buy an apple TV. Yeah and and that's my kind of got reaction to IT but will see, I mean that this can all just be empty rumors to the stuff that feels like every few years there's a rumer apples gona make a TV and .

they never do yeah my gene monster was baying the dam kind of infamously for a long time that apple was gonna making a television like dating, packed like two thousand nine or something. I mean, this has been this has been a thing that that people have talked about for a long time. But I think really like the reasons back then, I didn't make sense.

I think also a reasons that doesn't make sense now. And what's different is you have players like roku in TCL who is eaten the bottom of the market. And so SONY and samsung and LG, or just about to have an L G.

OLED. Dave moved into the middle and high ground. And like there's just not room for apple there unless there is something truly remarkable and then that would be really expensive.

And most people don't like, I did my research. I wanted, I wanted OLED. I had a specific size way that the din is set up.

And so L, G was the option. I was happy with that. Most people, when they buy A T, V, they they go into costco or sand or warm mart and they get the, the, the.

Only that they're doing is dollar per inch, right? And like, does this fit on my wall without my spouse killing me? And how cheap can I get IT? And like, that just not a market. Apple is very good at the iphone. And the mac exist the hind of markets where people upgrade much more frequently and the Price difference tween loan and high and really isn't that great.

Like, yes, a twelve and iphone is expensive, but it's competing as eight hundred and like six hundred dollar phones you talking about, like a cheap T C L T V you've bought on amazon all the way up to like a you know ninety six q OLED samsung, you couldn't get a wider breath. And like where is apple fit to that? I just I don't see IT being worth their time. honestly.

You I talk my feelings for the apple T.

V. Yeah, yeah. Um I think it's, I think it's both of us. It's IT. Is television in our house, right?

I made my window to T, V. I. I would not be qualified to make a apple T, V, power user show.

I am as likely to spend the evening with my head in a book as I am watching T, V. me. To the extent I watch T, V, I watch IT on apple TV.

And it's always good enough. I mean, recently the the local badgers got in the world series against yankees, and i've kind of lost interest in sports as i've gotten older. But when I was a kid, that was always to think the ankles and a daughter in a world series that was very nostalgic for me.

So I bought a month of of youtube TV, and I was able to watch the world series. And then after the month that was over. So the think I feel like whatever I need to do with A T V, I can pull off with a apple T. V. And yeah, that's good enough.

Same I am using hulu live T V, and I can turn IT on and off throughout the year. I actually um well then I move for the disney S P N, who live on also baskets on all the time. Yeah, but IT is our window in a television.

And I will say if you aren't looking for an apple TV power users magic rays of light on mac stories as an excEllent podcast segment. One of the host was on in P. U.

Not that long ago. So i've got links to that. So no people go to check IT out those guys are doing a good job there.

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Uh, we are running a little long. But look, we got to talk about high cloud and there's, I think, confusion. We get emails about this sometimes like what's I cloud? What's I class plus? And so uh, if you look at apple's website, I cloud is basically the free version.

So you get fogging the storage you're gone to talk about, uh, you get data sinking with that basically IT. So no private relay, no home kit, secure video, no fancy email stuff. Eyes cloud plus is what they rebranded IT.

Basically if you pay for eyebrow d. And so you get all those features, but really what you're paying for, again, air quotes as storage, starting at a dollar a month in the U. S. For fifty gigs, three dollars as two hundred, ten dollars as two terror bites, and you can go over up to twelve terrorists for sixty dollars a month. And um you can move between those in IOS or macos pretty easily. And so I cloud is the free one five gigs, basic APP data sinking in the eyes cloud plus paid extra storage and you get home kit, secure, video, private, rely in the fancy e mail stuff.

And it's still the free tear is still five giggle bites.

Yep, after thirteen or fourteen years, it's it's mind boggling. Now to give apple is like one I oder of credit, a few years ago they did change IT where if you are moving to a new phone, they will temporarily give you in a space to back up your phone to eye cloud can move to a new one. So you don't have to like direct transfer.

I don't give .

them molecules of credit.

No, it's time that it's like acknowledgement that they blown IT. It's like, yeah, our free tier is so bad that if you give us a thousand dollars or a phone, there's not enough to move IT over. So we have to give you a little extra for that.

That's fair. I mean, that's like a stain on apple. I mean, yeah, I get that they're making a lot of money on services and that they need to and it's a it's a four profit company.

But five gig bites was at fourteen years I I eat my joke used to be that um that the bear together longer then no, this has been going on longer than the beatles were together yeah but that was like four years ago. I would say that it's still true. I don't even know what .

to compare IT to but yeah and just for some reference drop box the free version is two gigs. A google drive is three fifteen gigs and then office sixty five the free is a it's five gigs and so they are in the middle but what I think that I cloud apart, especially from drought box uh and office, is that I cloud powers so much about the apple ecosystem experience. And you don't like photo thinking, notes, reminders, email, like on and on.

I just APP thinking, right? Oh, I set my favorite tes in this ports, APP. And I picked up my ipad and knows my favorite. How does to do that? Because is singing with I cloud like IT is so much the glue that holds all these products together.

When you hit that, that limitation, the whole thing kind of comes off the rails in a way that is not very Graceful and IT really feels punitive, right? And then they put them then like that, just the the Cherry on top of the terrible ice cream sunday is then they badge your settings APP say, hey, you're out of space. Give us two box or ten bucks or whatever IT is and is really, in the beginning, I felt like an up sell.

Now fourteen years later, IT feels like you're holding people hostage to their devices in a way that I think I think you said that right? It's sustain everything. It's out of everything in apple's whole business. This is the part that feels the gross us to me yeah and the .

difference of drop box and google is we're not give we're not buying thousand dollar phones and three thousand dollar computers from them, right? And that this is what you need for that. I mean, I mean, I don't need to say anymore that is that is bad because it's bad to me.

The solution would be um just to move everything up. One the free tears, fifty gigs a dollar month or two hundred gigs, ten dollars a month or two terabytes. And apple, I feel like I know you're not supposed to say how to spend your money in the 布 啊。 布布， i would spend their money on this.

I think this is what they should do when I sell stuff. I also think when you buy a new iphone, you get two years of free photo storage, unlimited photo storage. yes.

And after two years then you can say, hey um we gave you two years of this ref ery, but you know if you're going to if you're not upgrade your phone, you'll get another two years. If not up, then you're going to pay some more because you help you know a terribly of photos or whatever. And everybody that I know that's not a mac how you just listener but knows kind of that I do something with apple.

This is the one thing they complain to me about and I think it's the worst um facing, think it's it's where they looked the cheapest and the um I don't know. I just feel like I get that services are an important part of your business, but this is too much and and that's that's all I have to say. I think my opinion is now, but but I feel like there's an easy fix and it's time, I hope next next time we do this, we don't have to have this discussion again.

Yeah, I was just looking at my family. I cloud plus usage. I've got family sharing set up and we are at one point seven of two terabytes and when we cross, that is gona cost me an extra twenty box a month.

There's also like a weird gap here. There's that there's nothing kind of in between two in six terrible tes. But you're right, everything should be knocked down, knocked down a notch.

And the storage issues aside, like I was just I just going through on my mac and like looking at everything, I use an I cloud and use almost all of the it's all pretty good. Like it's been a long time as i've had a sink mishap in notes or in photos, you you do still run to the occasional weirdly. But I think the age of apple's badat services is is basically outdated at this point.

And I would always want more control over like, oh, what isn't my context? Think like, I don't know. Like turn IT off and turn back go on like we still, I think, need more trouble shooting options and more data recovery options. But I think overall, this stuff is really at a place that is is is really solid for just about everybody.

Yeah I mean, an in fairness, bad at services is back when cloud sink was hard. Yeah you the early days of cloud think like google could do IT almost nobody else. And now small developers are building their own cloud, think it's it's just it's kind of a solve problem.

And your apple has in the background built many, many server farms, which is another reason why I think they can now afford to make this jump with the free tier. They should I should be a sole problem, right? I mean, now the modern version that is artificial intelligence is like, oh yeah, apple is bad at that.

They're not doing good enough with apple intelligence. But that too will be solved problem once we get a little bit to the future. Um so it's just you it's just a thing where they're figure ing ing out a new tech, a new piece of their business. But i'm with you like the using the features of my cloud are great everything sinks um you know and even the files of its not as good as drop box in some ways but you can absolutely get by with IT. And you know I use mail, I use, I use at all, and it's fine.

Yeah if you, if you wanted know how bad IT was, go read the singer about libel me. But if you really don't remember what I was like, that article will will do your memory, I think you know.

So I would give them thumbs up for all the progress I have made with IT. And and you know, don't be cheap.

don't be cheap that that's a huge, a huge thing here yeah, I use IT all to except for male and it's maybe Better now, honestly. But I for a long time had a lot of pain issues with I cloud email and just eventually went to I had a zero account all long just made that my primary and that's been years are not really looking to change that. But there are some features in mall that I think um I think I am particular as dub itself when they announced.

But I heard from people then i've heard and read things more recently that the a particular using your own domain for I cod email, which is like the reason a lot of people use google at first was like I want to use my company domain name I don't you know I don't want to be you know uh dave pressure washing at at g mail dot mce or I lad 点 com um they've got on that up and running and i've reheard from people who are using and pretty happy with IT and the had my email， I think is actually really a really nice innovation. So if you sign up for something um or if you sign in with apple, which is the other service, you don't pass your real email address along to them. It's like this string of random stuff and you can go in there and disabled those. But so if like if you know I put my e mail address in some website as can expand, I can go turn IT off, which is really, really cool and know what more companies in more email services to do that. I think it's a great, great feature.

Yeah I feel like apple mail is excEllent for consumer as a consumer yeah actually I still have a dot. mac. My my personnel is a don't mac, yeah email e and I was in an apple store that guys like, well, that's a humble brag.

And mike, no, i'm just old. But but yeah so I use that but for the working stuff I use fast male because you know I have collaborators and there's some stuff that you know apple mail doesn't really made to do some of that stuff. But but yeah, it's good and it's solid and occasionally as downtime like any other service.

But IT doesn't feel to me like it's like out of the ordinary. And sure. And you know I I do think apple has really that the modern product of apple is services. You know that's kind of one of the big tech ways of the cooker as he figured out how to moitie services to the benefit of the shareholders. And and as a user, am generally okay with its along as they do a good job and they're doing a good job.

Uh there's a lot of other services too though um you know I mean an abundance apple music right 哼 so got their music service is to go while to get that kind off the ground is good。 You know are you using IT? What do you think of IT?

Yeah yeah. Well, I mean, that's in the family plan, all apple music. I did the thing where I back in the day I had used itunes match and that's including apple music.

So if you're bang for both, stop paying for itunes match. It's including our music and it's fantastic, right? Like a new album comes out or players to describe, to click on on one device that shows up on all the others.

Um really my complaints about apples and music situation is that I can't like it's not in the the world of continuity. So I can't have my music playing on my phone and my truck via car play. And then that music is I cued up and ready to go for me on the mac. And that's I think the mac music APP is period. But I would like to see them modernized that on the max so um I can move more freely between my devices like I can with with everything .

else yeah I feel like it's good enough, right? I'm not a again, a power user subscription service like one of my kids subscribes to spotify because all her friends have the various less and they're really into IT. And like great, you get to pay for that now and but I have A A family plan and and they've got a great selection of jazz that which is what i'm looking for.

If you know I can find undiscovered dexter gordon, i'm happy and I do wish they would kind of give jazz the same treatment to give classical music. But maybe that's you know maybe it's one of people interesting atter, whatever. But it's good. And i've got a time of great players. I've got my eal players.

You know, i'm going to put that in the showut I announced every year after the blog but I have a Christ's flash jazz yers i've been curating for over ten years now it's a lot of music but every year I hear from listeners that still use IT um but yeah it's kind of fun. I get to share through apple music. No problem, all good.

Uh, one thing about apple music that you and I have never talked about to show a spatial audio that's kind of the new thing they do where they remixed stuff. That's Stephen. What do you think of the spacial at you?

I'm not A A big user of IT. I mean, there's the aspect of IT is like, oh, the sound is coming from my phone and that that part is weird to me, the directional stuff but in terms of like space al audio and like, okay, i'm listening to an album and it's it's been masters or mixed where IT has this separation, like this three sort of sound. I have found the equality of that is unbelievably varied, that some albums that come out in special audio or really good in an ads like something compelling and others IT clearly wasn't after thought or was done after the factories s just like it's done poorly. And so i'm not a big honestly not a big, not a big user of IT.

Sometimes that feels like a stunt.

like the mix is and and I think it's one of those things where A A A double to you.

you know yeah but and i've got these albums i've listened to my whole life and when I am space al audio, I kind like that they're little different so long as they don't go over and with IT and and that's that's cool but you know I don't really everything against IT. I'm not like hugely into IT, but I do like to hear when some album that I love gets the treatment just to see how they did IT.

Um but yeah apple music solid you know again, I feel like it's good enough. Apple arcade you know apple kind of apple in gaming is such a thing and we should probably have somebody on some at some point. He is an expert in this, but neither than one of us are big gamers.

But like in some ways, apple has always ignored gamers in other ways. There are a huge gaming company because of their mobile platforms. Um I think the vision of apple or kate is a good one where they are kind of like nice games that are mobile friendly, that aren't going to be asking to buy more coins every five minutes.

I think that's kind of a vision for I feel like they more less delivered on that. And occasionally I find myself getting hooked on one and playing IT a lot. And then I don't play any games for several month. I find one .

yeah I think it's interesting that they're using up our arcade for software preservation that these old titles come back, but i'm not a gamer and yeah, sometimes i'll place them for a little while. Basically basically, I have IT because I pay for apple one and I would not have .

IT otherwise. Yes, what about fitness plus?

I should use IT more. That's why I wants in this review, I should use IT more.

Yeah, I I like IT Daisy having on a health push. We do plots two or three times a week, and I walk at the dog like a two mile hike most days and and you know i'm working on IT and and apple fitness plus become a part of the mix. I do some of the stretches, I do some of the body exercises, I do some of the core stuff and um and I find IT a nice mix like I was thinking, do I want to try something more like a gym or something but i'm not really a gym guy.

Don't like people yelling at me um but I feel like between the other stuff, i'm during the apple fitness plus stuff is definitely piece of what I have a TV here in the studio and a yoga at and and I you know often will come down and and do a session before I take shower and I felt i'm using IT kind of the way they meant IT to be um i'm disappointed they haven't expanded more like know they made a tich tracker and I was something tii would be kind of fun on apple of fit this plus they ever did that I IT feels a little stuck to me and maybe it's just because there's none of people using that to justify the expense. But I feel like um they've put the investment in building in the studios that got these great coaches who are kind of like the right match. I feel like for me, they're not like you don't have any of the coaches and apple in this plus that make you feel like dirt. And um and I would like to see them put the gas down a little harder with more different vary types of workouts. But overall, it's good and I I get my mony's .

worked out of IT what about apple news .

plus my thoughts on this are complicated um I feel like in general, I don't in no matter which side of the political spectrum on, I feel like the the news is entertainment thing has really heard of all know it's put us in tribes where we don't like each other, total strangers we judge because of you whether they're the left side of the bird or the right side of the bird. You left winning, right, right, whatever.

And I feel like news is becomes such a part of that that it's made a hard to consume news without realizing that another just trying to get you in right so you stick around longer and watch more ads. But I feel like apple has an opportunity with apple news to make something that gives us a way to consume news without you know getting caught IT since we're paying for IT. I don't know, I am really kind of a rambling here, but I was thinking living up to the show won't be nice if there was an online new source that that didn't try to mess with you um in order to get you to watch longer.

Yeah and wouldn't apple be the perfect company to make something like that? I don't think apple moves plus is that then. But but I I wish that I would be so yeah yeah .

I am an agreement there. I think giving you what could pull that off IT could be something like apple news plus um i'm just continually surprised how many people in my life use apple news like I just get apple news links from people who aren't nerdy, who aren't listen to my show. So you know but it's it's how they consume news because they can put in their interests. And like I want to learn to you over time and that's really interesting like I think apple news is is more widely used than I give a .

created for yeah but I do think they have an opportunity there. IT would be nice to have new source that actually I was like the old days and just keep the news.

Yeah, i'd like I like to see them improve the add situation. Ads are pretty bad and apple news stories that's more on the publisher side than apple. But I think but kind of gross um and they do the thing where I say that I don't I don't want to see the source anymore. Well, IT doesn't really go away. You d just get a big block and he says you .

block the .

source and like don't show IT to me then like seems like a pretty simple thing to fix.

Yeah, did you understand what I said? What I said, I don't want to see this anymore.

Yeah, exactly. Apple podcast, I think, is also something that much bigger than we could give IT credit for in our little corner of the internet where like everyone is used over cats or pocket cast or something about podcast is huge. Uh, their paid services is really interesting and I hear advertised.

And like big podcast c hey, john, in apple podcast, you know, like what we do in our membership, but doing is solely in the apple ecosystem. And I think apple is continue to a good job with its APP. I think in places the apps a little convoluted, I think they're they're doing a good job in in making IT more clear what you're doing.

But most importantly, the apple podcast directory continues to power the directories and most other apps. They've continued for that to be an open thing and that I am glad for. Abbot has a lot with podcast in terms of the specifications and other things that sometimes are good, sometimes are weird. But overall, I think apple holds its power over podcasting pretty well.

Yeah um the APP self had a really kind of checkered beginning that was remember when I was the real real in the IT was IT was bad in the early days. And like every year when we get into beta season, I just run apple part from like june to september. And this year, I noticed like I did not really miss my my overcast as much as i'd had in the years past.

Like it's really got to a point where it's a very functional podcast APP. And like I actually like the way its services new episodes of the stuff you subscribed to yeah and they've clearly put a lot of thought into you and it's a solid up now and you don't have to pay anybody, you know if you will save money. That's it's good up, you know good for them.

And um I still prefer you know kind of the power features that marco gives us with our cast. And he just did his big ray released and redesign so I can like that I was as part I come on to support a friend. But IT, I I, I think of, you know, overcast for me. So I preferred podcast player. But y the the distance between apple podcast and and something like overcast is not as big as I used to be.

Apple books, I honestly forgot, existed until we are playing this list together.

I like that and .

and I I got books in there, you know, for sale. But I prefer reading on the kindle with e ink and basically following the amazon ecosystem for my e books. And yeah, sorry, apple books I mean, over the last couple .

years i've gotten increasingly where i'm buying physical books is in. But um there's kind of like lines in my head I draw or like if it's like a book, a proper book that I want to read an animate, then you recruit in book for example or even like i've been reading lot of cinna chicago presses a bunch of those and i've been buying those as hard cover books.

But if it's like, you know the productivity book over the month kind of thing, I just get them digital. I don't want to feel I don't I have a limited shelf space and I don't want to stick all those on the shelf. So so where do I buy? I buy him from .

kindle ah IT musn't as a good job of IT yeah and he is really nice yeah and .

like you, I have books there too but but i've just for whatever reason over the years, and I think that is the the thing that is the one thing in is really good for as reading books. And I have two kindles at this point. I've got the big one that I keep in the studio where I read, and i've got the little one which I keep mixing the bed and and I I find myself going .

to those things.

Apple intelligence, we're gonna talk about in a separate show coming up. We're still in the beta of the first release of IT. The total thing isn't even out yet. So once we get a Better idea like how does that work with the new theory and things like that, we're going to give IT its own show. So we're we're holding judgement on that at this point.

Uh all of this or a lot of this can be had through the apple one bundle. I got a link to this um we do this because like everyone wants someone, I go in this actually this is really clever user in the face for this where you can like check and uncheck what you want and the bundle is a Better deal for me even though not using apple are at all and barely use apple in this plus that um it's cheaper for me with the eye oud storage space.

I want an apple music basically that's when i'm paying for and the other stuff comes along for free but that's done in the settings APP in macos or IOS whatever. Um but they have bordered all this stuff. And for individual is starts at twenty dollars a month, for a family is starts at h twenty six dollars a month.

Um and there's premiere, which is thirty eight dollars a month. And you can see all the Price breakdown, of course, that maybe different uh, where wherever you are. But I think generally, if you're using more than a few of these things, a apple one is is probably a good deal. So I would go so in the time of that website when the settings en and see, you know, could you be could you be making some money? Save me some money rather?

Yeah no, it's good. And like I even if you don't like the games or you don't like the news, that so may make sense for you. So take a look.

And then once you get those things, you start finding uses for them, like the fitness plus. I think I never would have paid for, but because I get IT, I use IT. Yeah I think .

that services in general.

I just wanted to point something out. Maybe listers, I not track in the stuff. Apple's iphone revenue in twenty twenty three was given, take two hundred billion. Apple's services revenue in twenty twenty three, eighty five billion, almost half. Yeah the iphone, I will say i'll .

put on my panda half for us. I D, the source of revenue includes something things that are not really services like google paying apple to be the default arch engine, which is not gona that's going to come doing .

IT looks like .

a bit that's going to go away. Probably the APP store is also in there like the thirty percent or the fifteen percent they are making from a developers. They also counted services revenue. But no, there's no doubt that a lot of that money is coming from apple music customers and eyes cloud plus customers.

And look, they've in a weird way, they've kind of sold as many iphones as they can sell, right? Like the world is only so big and only a set number people want an iphone or can afford an iphone. And for them to continue to grow, which is what wall street demands of these publicity ated companies.

They've got a look at monodist ing the users they have and to a much, much mary degree monotasking new users, two things like TV plus the same sung T V, right? But getting more money out of the pockets people already have, their hardware is the name of the game now. And a lot of people with our bit and interest look at this and think it's gross in apple to get out of these businesses.

And I totally understand that and even sympathize with to a certain degree. But I think living at eat service individually, integrating its worth and its value for me, he shows that on the whole, most of these services I find useful, and even they don't use all of them or even that of them were good. Apple continues to improve on them just like they do their hardware, just like they do when the software. And that's that's interesting yeah I mean.

i'm willing to spend money on apple services if they make them good. I mean, I like the general company. I think the way they generally lead towards privacy, um I think there's a lot here that that I would prefer apple to be the winter than someone else. I mean, like just like the recent room that apple might make cameras like I would much, much more likely trust the camera from apple and one from a third party that I don't know where the camera feed is actually going and things like that. So so I think there's there's a lot left for them to do with services in this kind of income, but it's just something to acknowledge to H I also because I also think that you know this can also turn into chiselling very easily, and I hope that they are they're careful about that.

Yeah, me too.

alright. We are the mac power users. You can find this, that really out of him. Slash, M, P, U.

That will wrap up our state of the platforms for this year, curous, to see what happens between now and the next time we cover these, you can go to relate out of him session P, U for feedback and membership. If you want to get in more power, you get the add free extended version, the show regardless. Thank you to our sponsors today, square space and e cam. We'll see next time.