Man Utd’s Transfer CRISIS – Pogba Return, Striker Hunt & Onana Debate! | The Midweek Debate
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Hello and welcome to the Manchester is Red podcast, this edition of the midweek debate with me, myself, Stephen Rylston and Tyrone Marshall. We're back in the office today, the work has been done and there's some construction going on and thankfully we're not freezing in this episode, Ty, because the heaters have actually been put on as well. That's a relief, isn't it? Doing the cold parma there if you're watching on YouTube. How are you? I'm good, thank you, Stephen. Yeah, have a good weekend. Very good.

Yeah, it was nice. I was at City Liverpool yesterday. You were the Joyce of the last trip to Goodison Park, if you can call it Joyce. Yeah, it was pretty good. I'll be honest, I barely saw any of the United game. My five-year-old has got into football in a ridiculous way in the last few months. And all he wanted to do from about midday till four o'clock was play on the field outside our house on Saturday. And what he wants, he does get usually. What he wants, he gets. That's the way with five-year-old children, unfortunately. I felt your rage on Friday night because I was obviously getting up.

I was doing the game very early on the Saturday morning with it being an early kickoff. So I think I was in bed by half eight, just watching some severance. Do you know what? It wasn't too fussed. I was quite relaxed. And then an early start, nice drive across to Goodison. The weather was, the sun was brilliant. It came out. It felt like summer. And a 12.30 kickoff is really ideal, especially when it's just across a Merseyside. Half an hour, half an hour, 40 minute drive. Fantastic. Those 12.30 games are really exciting. Maybe we had swap roles on Friday night then because I was out in town. I didn't get out until about one o'clock and

I had to be up at eight o'clock for junior football. So yeah, that was a bit of a fuzzy head on a Saturday. So maybe we've... I'm not, I don't want to walk in your boots permanently, but maybe just for one night. Right. Let's actually debate some topics. I think we do try to debate some topics. I'm not sure we had many disagreements on the last podcast, did we? Yeah.

But we're going to get into a few transfer bits. We're going to focus on transfers in the first part. And as usual in the second part, it's going to be a bit more relaxed. We'll look back at Goodison Park and chat a bit about that. But we'll start with Paul Pogba, Ty, because all of a sudden, Paul Pogba has been linked with a return to United. Having said that, I will caveat that. There hasn't been any credible reports. It has just been kind of a load of waffle, you would appear to think,

But we are going to talk about it because United fans are talking about it too. What do you think? He left the club in 2022 upon the expiry of his contract. His last game was against Norwich. He cupped his hair to the fans who told him to...

F off. Last game against Liverpool, wasn't it? Did he not play against Liverpool? I think at home he was not against Norwich that game. I thought Liverpool was after that, wasn't it? Let me check. I'm sure, because he played against Liverpool and went off injured after 10 minutes. Yeah, so it would have been the last home game, sorry. Last home game against Norwich and he was booed off. So he went out in a disgrace, really, at Old Trafford. It would be a big shock to see him back. I'd not have him back at the club. Would you? Yeah.

No, I mean, we were throwing about some ideas for a debate this morning. You mentioned Paul Pogba. Is that going to be a debate? It feels like it's going to be a very quick one. No, I don't think it makes sense on any level, really. I mean, Amarim was asked on Friday, actually, about whether he was looking at free agents and shot it down pretty quickly. And obviously, he's not going to say, oh, actually, that's a good question. Yeah, I'm looking at Paul Pogba. Now you mention it. But I just don't think it makes any sense whatsoever. I don't think he fits the system.

And the biggest issue is he's not played in two years. 2023. Yeah. So around 18 months, 18 months at least he's not played by the time he's fit. It's going to be the end of the season. Nothing about it makes any sense. So I,

I don't see it happening. When we were talking about what we could possibly debate, I did say, you said, I presume you agree with me. Yes, I thought about you. And I said, well, I wish I had a bit of a crazy opinion and it would make for a more entertaining podcast and a more entertaining conversation. Look, he was found to have elevated testosterone levels, I think it was, in late 2023. His ban is then being reduced. So he's available to play from March. As you said, yeah.

You could look at the free agent market and United do need new signings, but Paul Pogba just does not make sense because he has not kicked a football in a long time. And even when he did, he was below the level required then. I mean, he was really poor for United in his final kind of season. Obviously, it was a really bad campaign. His performance is on a whole and...

his whole time at the club, his return, were very inconsistent. And he did not look the same player when he was at Juventus again for his second spell in Italy. No. And obviously, you know, he had some pretty serious stuff going on in his personal life with the whole blackmailing thing and his brother being involved. I mean, that sounded... Just a normal day in the Marshall household, isn't it? Me and the Pogba's.

Hand in hand, yeah, hand in hand. You know, that sounded pretty horrendous. But yeah, he's, you know, and it's not, I don't think it's a position United are desperate for strength in. I mean, I think the Fernandes-Ugarte partnership has looked all right. It was Ugarte and Casemiro on Sunday. I mean, really, they need Diego Costa more than Paul Pogba if they're going to look at a free agent. But I just don't think it's going to happen. And I don't think they're going to waste any money doing it, to be honest, because that's the other thing to...

to bear in mind that I think I mentioned previously that the wages they're saving is about a million pound a month since the January business with Anthony and Rashford going. It's going to be five to six million pounds saving by the end of the year. They don't want to waste some of that on signing Paul Pogba for...

you know, what might he get? 400 minutes or something by the time he's back fully fit. Just a total waste of time. And he'd probably play him on the number 10 rules, wouldn't he? You wouldn't really see him as a deeper line midfielder, would you? No, to be honest. I think, I think. He's a six and eight, isn't he? That kind of blend. Yeah. If he was next to someone like Ugarte, like for France, when he was next to Kante, which probably is his best football. So I don't know, maybe you could make an argument that next to Ugarte, he was 31. He's only 31, did you say? Do you think he would have been older than that?

Yeah, I think I did, to be honest. I thought I'd be more like 33. So, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see where he goes and if he can get any of that kind of quality back. But,

let's be honest it was you know it was disastrous when United spent 89 million exactly I'd be very surprised if he rocked up at a top European club you could kind of see him I think he was into Miami the other night although surely they will not have room for him on the wage bill considering Messi Jordi Alba etc Busquets is there as well I think they've got the whole band across there really the Barcelona band

Come on then, we'll move on after that enthralling debate about Paul Pogba. More specifically with transfers, which positions do you think should be the priority for the summer? It's an interesting question that because you look at the season and you could argue they need a new player at almost every position. Yeah, you've taken, you've stolen my punchline there because I was going to say goalkeeper, right wing back, not a left wing back, three centre backs, two midfielders. But no, they don't need everything. But I think,

half a dozen starters maybe, maybe four starters, five starters. I mean, I think they still need another wing back.

I think probably another midfielder still. Either a deep-lying one to play next to Ugarte. Probably at least a deep-lying one, to be honest, because Casemiro's got to find a way to get rid of Casemiro. I don't know how they're going to do it, but they've got to find a way to get rid of him. And then probably at least another number 10. I still think there's got to be a good chance Garnaccio's going to go, or at least one of Garnaccio and Mane is going to go. So probably one of them is going to need replacing. They clearly need a striker.

so they need that spine though I think a striker a midfielder and they're going to need a centre half there's going to be departures at the back and then their right wing back probably Dorgu has looked quite good actually I've been impressed with him in his last few appearances he emerged with quite a lot of credit actually at Everton as we'll get on the second part but

But I think those four positions would probably be the priority for me. I wouldn't say central defender. They've spent a fortune on central defenders in the last few years. To say they need another is embarrassing. Do you know what? We've finally got a disagreement. Deal with what you've got. They cannot spend more money on another central defender. They're going to have to because... De Ligt, Martinez, Maguire, Yoro, Heaven, Shaw, probably...

Shaw's not going to go in the summer is he Lindelof's going to go Johnny Evans is going to go so you've got two senior centre-halves another part of the play there's still six there and the sixth is arguably Martínez has become injury prone he's started to pick up a lot of injuries and he's not going to be back until I think they're going to have to Aidan Evans 18 years old he's had one senior appearance to his name in the Carabao Cup tie for Arsenal Lenny Yoro obviously you think would come good and

Harry Maguire, again, he's become injury prone, hasn't he? Although I think he deserves this. I don't know. Do you think it's harsh to describe him as injury prone? He has. Well, everyone in this squad have been injury prone for the last two years. I'm a big advocate for Maguire. I think he's done very well in the last year or so. And he's proved his quality again in short character. But he's picked up a lot of problems. Yeah. I don't think, well, you don't need seven centre-backs. So if we're saying they do need a centre-back, one of them has to be sold. They have to sell someone. They can't carry seven centre-backs.

when they haven't got any money to spend this summer. So they'll need to sell. I think if they want to sign a centre-back, they've got to sell someone. They might sell Maguire. I don't know whether he'd want to go. Can't imagine anyone's going to pay great money for De Ligt. I mean, but Joroh's probably the only sellable centre-back. They're not going to want to sell him after a year. Is that backline good enough without a new signing to kick on and do what Amrim wants to do? Yeah. I feel like they need a better centre-half in there as well. I don't know. I think...

I'm not sure they do. I think if you get the system working, I mean, in a way, the centre-back should be the easiest bit to do. Whether you're a centre-back playing in a two or a centre-back playing in a three, it doesn't really change that much. We spoke to De Ligt after Van Nistelrooy's last game, I think, and he said, I've played in a two and a three, and as a centre-back, it's pretty similar. So I don't think their role really changes, to be honest. I still think...

Picking four from De Ligt, Martinez, Yorua, Maguire should really be good enough. And I know Martinez is going to miss the start of the season. If you can get Shaw fit and keep him fit, I think he can play that left-sided role. That's just a pointless suggestion, isn't it? When we always say that, oh, if you can keep him fit, because history tells you he can't keep fit. Yeah. I mean, history does tell us he can't stay fit. And we all say he'd be brilliant if he can, but he can't. You only need, you know, he's not going to be first choice. He's going to be second choice behind Martinez. So you only need...

20 games out of him. What you need is to get lucky and have the 20 games. Martinez has become an injury pro and you look at his...

Since the end of his first season, he's picked up injuries, a lot of them. And they have been unlucky because it's been... Yeah, they've been unlucky injuries. One of them, United mismanaged because they played him with a broken foot, a broken metatarsal. This latest one, you know, I think... Just the way he landed, wasn't it? Yeah, I think he was unlucky. So I'd be more concerned about Luke Shaw getting muscle injuries than Martinez getting some bad contact injuries and, you know, a serious knee injury that feels a bit unlucky. So...

He has had a few injuries, you know, you are right, but I don't necessarily think he's injury prone in the way that Luke Shaw is.

Yeah, the word injury prone suggests obviously you are prone to picking up lots of injuries. With Martinez, it's just the fact that he has picked up injuries. I'm not saying that it's a regular occurrence and it's his fault as such, but there is obviously a huge element of bad luck there. But the fact is he has picked up injuries and he has missed time. I do think they need a new centre-half. Who would you try and get? I'm sure they can't carry seven centre-halves in the squad. Well, hang on. So it would be Lindelof and Evans are gone. You'd have De Ligt, Maguire, Martinez, Joroh,

Heaven. Heaven. And Shaw. Five, five excluding Luke Shaw. You play a three at the back. Is that enough? That's six with Luke Shaw. Well, okay, go on then. I'll say I'll put De Ligt up there. I'd rather keep Maguire over De Ligt. I've still, I've not been as critical on De Ligt as some other people have, but he hasn't had a good season. No. Yeah, he's not been convincing. No, he's not. And he wasn't good last weekend. No, he's been hit and miss, I think it's fair to say. Yeah.

But I don't know. I also don't think you're going to get a buyer for him this summer. You're going to get a buyer for him. The only one of those you'd be able to sell would be Yoro when they're going to want to sell Yoro. And I just don't think they've got the room in the squad or the budget to sign another centre-back, really. Unless you're saying Heaven goes out on loan, then maybe you do. Or you find a way to get rid of Shaw.

And then maybe you sign someone else. And I think there is an argument to get rid of Shaw. His contract expires in 2027. If he performs for now to the remainder of the season, his market value is going to be reasonable. And if you cut your losses now, you're still going to obtain a decent fee for him. If you roll the dice one more time into the next season, chances are he probably picks up more injuries. His value depreciates significantly.

And he's almost into the last year of his contract. So you lose power in negotiations there. I don't know. I would say the opposite. I can't see anyone signing him this summer on the back of having played... Well, it's three substitute appearances in a year, isn't it? I think it's 60, 70, 80 minutes. Everton. And he's not back in training yet, I don't think. Even when he does get back in training, it's going to be a good few weeks before his starting games. You know...

Best case scenario, he might play 10 times between now and the end of the season, I would say. I don't think that's enough evidence for a club to sign him, to be honest. I think you're better off hoping that he stays fit next season. Yeah. I mean, it is... That's the thing. A club like that could take a gamble. It would require him to want to go. And I don't think you're going to get...

wages and transfer fee are going to be a problem. I think now people wouldn't take a risk on it. It is only two years ago that he had his best season for United and his longest season of staying fit for United. That first season under 10 arguments... You say it's only two years ago, but still two years of not doing that. Yeah, it is two years of not doing that, but this is the reality now. He hasn't started a game for United for a year. No, he hasn't. But it's also worth remembering, and everybody liked these injury...

so much. And, you know, anytime you post anything about Luke Shaw on social media, it gets hammered. And I know the European Championship thing was obviously a mark in the sand, a line in the sand for a lot of United fans. But,

this isn't his fault. He's not getting injured deliberately. As disappointing as it is to a fan that he's not available, try being in Luke Shaw's shoes when the prime years of your career are unavailable. He ain't getting this again. You know, you're not going to let him go. Fans will just support a different player. It's like with Phil Jones when he used to get so much criticism and, you know, it's incredibly frustrating. But,

Try being in Phil Jones' shoes when you had all that potential and didn't make it because your career was wrecked by injury. They ain't enjoying it. They ain't doing it on purpose. It's not that they're not doing something in their recovery. It's just that they are, you know, injury prone. And when you're getting muscle injuries regularly, it is injury prone. So they...

They need a lot of luck, I think, with Luke Short. He was definitely mismanaged last season. There was games where he'd just come back from muscle injury and he was playing an average of a game every 2.5 days or every 3.5 days. And that is just asking for trouble. If you've come back from a muscle injury and you ask to accelerate your load, increase your load that much, it's stupid. But you're right. If any fan was in his shoes, major tournaments come around every two years. They all would have done what Luke Short did. And Amran even said a few weeks ago...

He said he's done everything right. And if he hadn't done everything right, I wouldn't be open to keeping him. But he has done everything right. You'd know about it if he hadn't done everything right because they wouldn't be carried. But like I say, two years ago, I think he missed three games to injury and he played...

A lot of that season, it left back really well. He replaced Martinez. He played centre-half against Erling Haaland. But it was two years ago. And marked him out of the game. It was two years ago, but it's only two years ago. You were 48 two years ago. He does show he can do it. So, like I said, I just don't think you're going to get a market for him this summer. So you have no option but to keep him, cross your fingers, hope that he's fit when Martinez isn't and that it all sort of comes together. And I know it's not a great scenario, but given that they've got

They haven't got a pot to go to the toilet in this summer, really. I don't think they can afford to sign a seventh centre-back. We've not really whittled down which priorities...

We would like to see him strengthen. Yeah, but no, it was a good discussion. I mean, right wing back, I think we'll both agree they do need a player there. Diego Dalo has moved to that side recently and you'd like to think he's more comfortable on that side, but he's struggled this year. He's had a poor season. He's regressed, hasn't he? A lot of that has been, in my opinion, because he's been on the left and in the new system, which obviously makes it difficult, but he's not exactly showed great signs of life since moving back to the right. And...

on top of that watching Patrick Dorgue a player who has been signed for Amram's system it's no coincidence that he looks good in that system and we've talked about on a previous episode how important the wing back roles are in that formation and they need a top right wing back don't they to compliment Dorgue on the left you'd think yeah you'd have thought so it does you know it does feel like they need another one I mean it's interesting the other day when

Amarim was talking about playing Dorg who won the right against Leicester and he referred to those players as wingers and said he wants wingers that can play

in modern parlance and he did mention Dallow amongst it I just thought I don't really see him as a winger to be honest I'm not even sure I see him as a wing back but I wouldn't be getting rid of him I'd certainly give him another chance He's a very good squad player Dallow he is but I don't think he should be starting in the top four I've just forgotten the centre back discussion are we passing Masraoui as a centre back now because I think he's even less of a wing back

than Dallow. And if you strengthen a right wing back and you get another player in, then you would look at him as a centre-back, wouldn't you? So that would damage my case of saying he's centre-half. I'm never wrong. Lastly then, we'll briefly touch on a striker because we've talked about... I think there's two positions left which would be striker and goalkeeper. Well, to be fair, that was on the bullet points for the podcast. But if we're going to argue they can't afford to get

sent off him right now and it's not a priority right now i would argue anana you have to kick the can with anana down the road a little bit maybe that's a next summer job not this summer coming up yeah you could probably survive another season with them so i say survive a bit dramatic um but if you want to compete at the top of the premier league and non is not that man but united is going to be competing at the top of the premier league next year no if if the one who it's going to be the air off that i think that's i think that's probably fair um like you said there's

I mean, he's a bit of a strange one, isn't it? He did, he did seem the right goalkeeper two years ago, but he's been too inconsistent. And the, the,

The biggest criticism is that I don't think he's transformed the distribution the way that it was expected he was going to. Remember the Champions League final, right? Yeah, yeah. Into Milan, Manchester City. I was there. Were you there? I didn't realise you were there. His footwork was just unbelievable. Yeah. And he was just spreading the ball out, the dynamic range of passing 40 yards, 30 yards, crisp. And we just haven't seen that, have we? No. I remember in that game, when Inter were chasing a late goal, he was playing in front of two defenders at times. Like, he was more trusted to create something than the two defenders were.

You know, it was bizarre to watch it, but Guardiola had spoken about it pre-match and really talked it up. But you're just not really seeing it at United. He goes along too often and that kind of is an issue for the strikers as well, which we'll maybe come on to. I think the only reason it's maybe an issue this summer is that you're probably going to need at least one keeper. I mean, I think, you know, Tom Eaton's out of contract.

It's going to be 39 in April, I think. He's had a couple of injuries this year. Probably call it a day. Altai Biender clearly wants to play and isn't going to get that opportunity. I think he'll stay now. I think if Tanag had continued as manager, his policy with goalkeepers was very, I've got my number one, he's playing in cup competitions. But to be fair to Ambrim, he has given Biender...

responsibility in the FA Cup for example in different games and I could see him being sweetened by that and being happy to stay and then you've obviously got Hubert Grasic I think you pronounce his second name who's I think around 21 22 signed for Arsenal last summer and I could see him being promoted to number three because let's let's be honest realistically your number three goalkeeper it's not very important is it well you see it's it has become more important and if they did that I can't

imagine there's many if any Premier League clubs who have an inexperienced goalkeeper as their number three maybe a few lower down the table do but most clubs now carry someone experienced as their number three

Well, then the solution to that would be Lorne Nagrassik, which is very potential. He's quite likely because he's young and getting in another experienced head. It's been that trend, hasn't it? You're right, to be fair, that these old heads are getting these jobs. John Ruddy at Newcastle, I'm thinking of. Obviously, Scott Carson was the OG. Tommy Wonner, Lee Grant. Yeah, so Scott Carson set the trend, didn't he? He was a trendsetter, yeah. They had them, I think they had...

I was going to say Joe Lewis, I'm not sure that's right. I can't remember who it was at City before Scott Carson. It wasn't Joe Lewis, but obviously Joe Lewis came and helped United train for six months of last season. Yeah, it was Joe Lewis, but it was someone else. I can't remember who, but it has become a trend. And, you know, maybe with United and the financial situation they're in, and, you know, if you can't have free lunches, then maybe you can't have a third choice goalkeeper on 25 grand either. You know, that's a saving. And you just hope that one of your other keepers don't get injured. I mean, it'd be unusual to have,

It's unusual to have two injured, but you know, I have got two injured at the moment. Thankfully, one of them's not a Narnia, but they have for the last few games been in a position where if anything happened to him, then it is, you know, you're either looking at Eli Harrison or Hubert Grachik. Hubert Grachik. You realise you mispronounced his name. Yeah, and one of them on the bench. And as highly rated as both may be, Harrison's only played for Chester. Yeah. And...

He's only played for Slough. So it would be, if, you know, if an armour got sent off 10 minutes into the game at Goodison Park and Harrison comes on...

he's a superb prospect Harrison I think a lot of them and he's got a big future ahead of him but it's a different ball game playing in the Premier League against seasoned professionals in high pressure games imagine them swinging crosses onto his head Beto coming in attacking balls it's another world isn't it really I feel like we've probably covered the transfers I mean in terms of yeah with strikers I was going to say in terms of who would actually like to see coming through with strikers because it's all well and good seeing United need a striker

And we do make the point, it's not our jobs to do that. United, the staff at United who are paid very well to find those players. There's still some stuff at United. Apparently so, yeah. They might leave after they realise it's just soup on the menu. Yeah, possibly, I would. What about Jonathan David? Because he's been linked quite a lot now. He's been linked to Juventus and a few other clubs. Obviously he plays for Lille. He scored 26 goals last season. He's got 20 this season. That's more than Hoyland and Xerxe have scored between them in their entire time in Manchester.

Yeah, yeah. How mental is that? Yeah, that is mad. How old is he? 25. He's 25. Yeah, so I don't understand why he's still at Lille when he's 25, I would say. I don't see enough of him to know what his flaws might be, but... I think players can age, sorry, mature is the word, later than...

what everyone expects. Maybe. And I quite like that when a player comes into the room in the mid-twenties and starts to really thrive. And if it was just after the back of last season, I would say he needs to do it again. But his overall goal scoring record is really good. And obviously, League One, one of the poorer divisions in Europe. But he's done it in the Champions League. He scored goals against Real Madrid. He scored against Liverpool. I think he's a

Someone else he scored. Atletico Madrid as well. Yeah, there's another club. He's done it against top teams. Yeah, he has. Sorry, we've missed the key part. He's available on a free transfer at the end of this season. That's the key part. That is the key part. If United's recruitment team are watching this, they've just pricked up. I didn't know he was available on a free transfer, actually. I don't know. You're right. His goal-scoring record has been good.

for quite a few, even before that 26 goal season last season, I think his goal scoring record is pretty good. And he's been linked with transfers for three or four years, but never goes anywhere. And that just kind of, you know, I'm not a scout and I'm not watching Lille games regularly. So I'm slightly guessing here, but it always makes me wonder why a deal has never happened for him. When so many clubs have been looking for strikers in recent years,

why has no one gone for him? Like, what are they seeing that maybe we're not when we're just looking at his numbers that makes them think he's not cut out for it? It does seem too good to be true. And it might be. Maybe. It's the honest truth. Maybe, yeah. But, you know, looking purely at seeing clips of his goals, seeing his numbers, seeing his availability, you'd say he makes a lot of sense. But loads of teams have looked at him

and it's like like say his numbers are his numbers are obvious that any recruitment department needing a striker would be like let's have a look at him and like I say lots of teams have needed a striker in recent years and he's never moved which is the only thing that makes me sort of question it really it'd be fascinating to see where he leaves where he joins in the summer where he goes yeah and we'll come back to this if he's back in the goals in next season yeah wherever he goes maybe at Old Trafford but I mean

For me, if they're going to pay for someone, which they're probably going to have to then, I mean, Guacarese is the obvious target. I'm not sure it'll happen, to be honest. Other than that, I'd say the best alternative, I think, would be Liam de Lappe. I think there's a lot of similarities to Guacarese in the way he plays. I'm not hugely inspired by Liam de Lappe. Watched him a lot at Manchester City.

interviewed one of his former PE teachers at the time. I think that was like three years ago now. And he obviously is a good prospect and he's powerful and he's piercy and he puts himself about, doesn't he? He's a real menace. - Yeah, he does. - And he's clearly got a lot of potential.

But again, young striker, United need a proven goal scorer. Are they really going to go back and sign another? Ain't going to happen. Ain't going to happen. Who are they going to sign? But then we're just going to have the exact same conversations next season where we're sitting here thinking they've bought another young striker. This is their reality. This is their reality now. They had the chance to sign a proven goal scorer two years ago and they blew it. So I think this is the reality now. There will be someone out there. I mean, even if it's Jonathan David, for example, like,

Patrick Schick, is he still at Bayern Leverkusen? I don't think those are more a guarantee of Premier League goals than Liam de Lappe. I'd rather have Schick than Liam de Lappe. Not long term. Really? Well, I think...

I don't know. I mean... Is that a controversial statement? Yeah, I think... Kind of regretting seeing it now. De Lappe... I mean, Schick looks all right, but I just think De Lappe is... I mean, he's younger. He's got to be a couple of years younger than him. He scored nine goals, I think, for struggling in Twitch team this year. Schick's, I'd say, 27 now. Liam De Lappe is, what, 22. Yeah, De Lappe's 21, 22. And I just think De Lappe... De Lappe has got the traits that Amorim wants for a striker. Amorim wants...

runs in behind, runs into the channel. He wants strong defenders. I mean, arguably, Hoyland's got the traits to do it as well, but it's just not working. Sorry, can I address the elephant in the room, Victor Arshamon?

obviously a big name. He's on loan to Galatasaray currently from Napoli. United have been linked with him. He will be available because Napoli do not want him. Conte has made it obvious Lukaku's a striker. We're going to sell him. So there will be an opportunity there. That is the obvious name to go for. Yeah, and he's scoring records good this season. He's a top player. He looks...

He looks a top player. I know it sounds weird, but he moves like a top player. I think when you watch some players, when I watched him against Tottenham in the Europa League out of interest, I've watched him a lot over the last couple of years, but I wanted to see how he was now because he had a bad season. But Napoli had an awful season that year, so I don't think you can necessarily play more than that. What I would say is he's probably had two great seasons in his career, Osserman. If you look at him before Napoli and before that title winning season, I think his numbers were pretty average. I like the look of him.

He's 26 years old. 26 years old. Pardon me. I mean, I think he has had two good goal scoring seasons in his career for Napoli and for Galatasaray. Okay, so I'll give you an example. Don't want to hop onto it, but we were talking about Alexander Isaac before we came onto this podcast and seeing how good he is. He had a bad season at Real Sociedad and someone took a chance on him and look at him now. In the market, you have to take a calculated gamble, don't you? You have to look at what you've got in front of you. Osherman, I think, is the best of the...

an uninspiring kind of market at the moment yeah I think I think you're probably right again I just wonder if there's you know if there's some baggage there things turned very sour very quickly for him at Napoli that can happen with Conte come on it can happen with Conte yeah it's a fair point I guess

The fact he ended up at Galatasaray rather than moving anywhere else. Well, you agree personal terms with Chelsea. I think the fee was the stumbling block. He also was set to go to Saudi Arabia. The transfer window closed. He was kind of left in a bad place. Yeah, Galatasaray was the only option. Yeah, had to join Galatasaray. And their tax rate means it's a very lucrative place for European footballers to go. Yeah, I mean, I do think he's a good player. Like I said, I don't think we've seen the consistency from him, but then you have him with the lap. But I just think...

If they could get Osman, then it'd probably be good. But he's going to cost more than De Lappe and he's going to want more wages than De Lappe. De Lappe would be something of a gamble, but if it was between De Lappe, Ireland and Zirkus, he'd lead the line for United, it'd be De Lappe by a million miles for me. It has to be someone proven. I know that's easier said than done, but it has to be someone in their mid-twenties. I've spent £108 million on strikers in two years. They haven't got any more money to sign a proven goal scorer. You might be right.

I think just you have to take a gamble on someone. Take a gamble. Roll the dice. It depends what you get. It looks like it's going to go down after the weekend, doesn't it? That's true, yeah. And in that case, if the lap's available, I mean, it seems pretty clear Chelsea want him. There's going to be competition there. Don't know what his contract situation is, if there's a release clause, if they go down or anything. But you'd imagine 40, 50 million probably do the job. I can't.

can't get behind that unfortunately 50 million for Liam Dalab I can't back that I think 40 to 50 I don't know I just think I know he's done very well he's going to get 10 goals this season in a struggling Ipswich team probably top of 12 or something wouldn't he and I just think Rasmus Hoyland got physically 16 goals in all competitions in a struggling United well yeah not this season well yeah not this season very much so should we leave it there for part one yeah we'll leave it there for part one we'll be back in a minute for part two

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Welcome back to part two of the midweek debate. We're going to touch on Goodison Park, obviously on Saturday afternoon. I was at the game, Ty was covering the City-Liverpool match at the Etihad, so I was there with... Your first trip to Goodison? I've been there as a fan before, yeah, but yeah, in the press box. I was there with my mum,

I see it go or knock it down immediately. It's got a lot of charm, doesn't it? It's got a lot of character. And I've always realized whenever I've, if I've been on the blog and yeah, it's gone by and you and Samuel have been there, you wax lyrical about Stanley Park, the walk, the kind of the character it's got when they score, like the beam shake, don't it? It's such a, it's one of Premier League's most iconic rounds. Yeah. I mean, the beams do shake. And sometimes when they score, you don't see the goals because the beams are in the way.

Yeah, it is an iconic ground. The problem now is that there's too many like identikit grounds, isn't it? Identikit? They kind of all look the same. Have you ever heard of the word identikit? No, okay. Maybe you have to teach us that one after in the dictionary, yeah. What are they doing in schools? We'll start debating dictionaries and words after this. You know, basically stadiums that all kind of look the same. And that's, I mean, Everton's new stadium looks in an even better location, to be fair.

But yeah, you do kind of lose something with those old stadiums going. But the press box, right? The press box. You warned me about this because it was my first time in that press box. Incredibly tight, very difficult. When you type in, you kind of, you're almost jostling for elbow room, aren't you? And it does make it difficult to type what you want in. Yeah. It's hard to describe how close you are with everyone, how little leg room there is.

you cannot get out over people. Like if you need to, if you're in the middle of that row and you need to get out, you need to get six people that way or six people that way to move. And all right, you don't normally need to get out, but if you suddenly find yourself feeling unwell or something like that, you're on a world of pain. And if you feel claustrophobic, you'd hate it in there. It is, you know, it's a ground that's got a fair bit of charm. Um,

Yeah, from a press point of view, I don't think I'd be so happy to see it again. The press room is tiny as well. And it should be brilliant at Bramley Moor Dock from a press point of view because the facilities will be great. It'll be a spacious press box. It'll be good. I can imagine that's going to be a great away day as well. You know, the fact that you can get the train into Liverpool, do a few pubs,

kind of wander down to Bramley Dock or get a taxi a couple of miles. I mean, that is going to be a great away day for a lot of fans, I think. Dave Hughes used to work for them, yeah. I remember Ty did bits and bobs as kind of an analytical writer. He's now at Everton. He works in their club media. I was speaking to him before the game and he said it was the first time ever in his life, obviously a big Everton fan, that he'd been confident of beating United. Yeah.

2-0 up, they were dominant in the first half. They just couldn't get that third goal to kill off United and credit to them because the last half an hour, they showed character and it was an unlikely comeback into the game. I didn't expect that to happen. Okay, I'm telling the absolute porky there because I turned to Samuel and said, you just know they're going to score and they will produce an equaliser here. You could gradually feel it. And when United score a goal at an away ground, even though they're quite bad now,

the fans, the home fans, just kind of get a little bit nervous. Some start to kind of groan and you sense it. You could see it coming after the Fernandes goal for sure. I'm not sure before that you could really see it coming. I just thought it's typical United away day. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the only way it was going to happen was the way it happened with two brilliant, not individual, kind of individual goals. And that they're two strikes that...

you know, the combined XG was probably about 0.1 on them and they've both gone in the back of the net and it feels like pretty much the only way United can score any goals at the moment is through that. So, you know, maybe it felt fitting in a way, kind of felt from, I mean, like I said, I was on a field chasing a ball around with a five-year-old so I've only seen extended highlights but it felt like they'd kind of stolen a point in the end and then maybe,

Could have won it. Yeah, well, that's the thing. Once the second goal went in, you got a, obviously, you felt they're actually going to go win this now. And Everton were really nervous at that point. They were. And then they go up the other side of the pitch in added time. Let's talk about that penalty decision. I think this is going out on Wednesday. So hopefully it wouldn't have aged too badly and United haven't played Ipswich yet. But an interesting penalty decision for me because VAR did not look...

at the late pulling Ashleam's shirt. There clearly was not enough contact from Maguire on Young to justify a penalty. But for Yvonne not to look at that, look at the shirt pull was surprising. And David Moyes was asked about it in his press conference and he said he didn't understand it. He was taken back by it. Yeah. I mean, it was just, that Premier League match centre ex-account said that they reviewed the foul by Maguire on Young. And like you said, I don't think there was a foul by Maguire on Young. Yeah.

so I don't know if the referee said I've given it for a foul by Maguire or what but there was there was a shirt pulled from Dulict and it wasn't enough for Ashley Young to go down I think that's pretty clear but the reality is if you don't go down you ain't getting penalties we see that every single week it's why players do go down they probably wouldn't go down as easily if they ever got a decision when they can be impeded and still stay on your feet and it still be a foul um

And, yeah, I mean, it's one of those where if that happens 30 yards from goal, clearly a free kick. Like, if a defender pulls an attacker's shirt 30 yards from goal, clearly a free kick. It feels soft, to be honest. Is it a penalty?

It was a penalty for me. Yeah, I think, I mean, once it's given, I was very surprised that it was overturned. If it's not given, I also don't think it's being given by VAR. Well, clearly not. But, you know, it falls in that category of, Dilip pulls his shirt 30 yards from goal and the referee just gives a free kick and no one says a word. The fact it's a penalty, it feels a lot softer to get a penalty for that. But just don't pull a shirt in the penalty area would be the...

the easiest way to go about it. And I think, you know, the argument that if you gave a penalty for that, you'd have to give six a game for things at corners is probably true. But you do see more penalties given now for shirt pulling at corners, especially if it is the player who is attacking the ball. I think you see them given more. So, you know, I think once it was given, I think they have slightly got away with one there.

I was down in, pardon me, the mix zone after the game. We've kind of explained how the mix zone works. If United don't win... It's a great mix zone, isn't it? Yeah, well, it is very well positioned because it's right next to the dressing room. So the players stand outside the dressing room, chat to each other, and you can get some, gleam some really good colour from it. David Moyes was speaking to Darren Fletcher. He was asking about his kids.

pickford came out quite early harry mcguire was one of the first to be showered came out they were chatting um about the penalty incidents and me and peachy were trying to simon peach of pa trying to efs drop in the efs drop and see what they were saying you could kind of hear bits and bobs and i think pickford and mcguire actually noticed we're trying to listen to the step back a little bit the journalists are trying to get an article here um but i think i heard mcguire say surprised it was overturned but he was arguing that it wasn't a penalty and he said i

I think I heard him say Ashley Young didn't help himself there because he went down in such a dramatic fashion. And he didn't help himself. Ashley Young was bouncing along. He seemed in quite high spirit. He was catching up. Hoyland was speaking to Lundström. Is it Lindström or Lundström? Yeah, in the Scandinavian contingent were there because Lindelof joined in and they were chatting. It was interesting to see that up close. And then James Tarkowski comes out. He bounces out and he goes, hey, she goes, you better get over here quickly. You, the S word, yourself.

about the penalty so they were laughing about that and then James Tarkowski dropped his fruit after that so he was picking bits and pieces no no that was the actual that's actually what happened as he was talking to Pickford he dropped his fruit after saying that to Maguire he was picking up his pineapple and his melon off the floor surprisingly he didn't just get a new one but he was picking it up off the floor and they obviously known each other for years them two in Pickford and Maguire international teammates so

interesting and then when I walked to the press conference I walked along with David Moyes and I said David what do you think about leaving stadiums and he went oh well fantastic Goodison but really looking forward to Bramley Dock which is just what we said really isn't it yeah yeah an interesting day out at Goodison what are your memories of Goodison Bart what games have you done there

I did the, what I saw Samuel refer to as the Easter Sunday massacre, which it kind of was when, and it feels like that was the first of these defeats that almost become common practice now with United where they essentially, they don't lose, they don't, you know, too often this team doesn't lose in, you know, there's ways to lose games and a lot of, ever since that Easter Sunday game,

Too often, United lose games in disgrace and lose games in shame. You know, the amount of time they've lost games 3-0 or 4-0 since then, or 7-0 or 5-0 is incredible. And that was, it feels from memory, like that was the first one, really. It was that, you know, it was the season when Solskjaer had replaced Mourinho and things had been so good for a while. And then almost as soon as he got the job permanently, they started to unravel. And that must have been, I'm sure it was like April 21st or something like that.

So it must have only been six weeks, seven weeks after he got the job permanently and they lost 4-0 and probably the first, like I say, the first of those really embarrassing defeats and the first time you kind of looked at it and thought, maybe this is going to be a mistake. So yeah, that's probably the one that is most memorable there. I've done Burnley a few times there.

I mean, Everton, Burnley, they're not going to remember those games, are they? Not fixtures. I think I forgot them as soon as I left. If that's the 5-30 kick-off, you're not turning it on. No, definitely not. I don't think so. Nice stadium. And like I said, that mix zone is nice too.

you know if united don't win a game these days it's pretty much pointless going to mix zones but well at least you can actually do something with it i guess that's the point and it helps if there's a controversial decision like that at the end of the game and mcguire's chatting about it in the tunnel at least we got something ferdinand came along he was clasping hands and uh there was actually a court on the rail and i thought it was this woman's next so i moved it along to get my position and then it was getting a bit tight so i moved the court along again

And do you know whose coat it was? It was Ruben Amrim's. So he came and got his coat and Peachy said, I was wondering whose coat that was. And Amrim looked a bit confused at why we moved his coat. He wears the same coat every week, doesn't he? For the first time, he wore a hoodie. Because as I said in the opening, the intro, it was a lovely day on Saturday. So he had a hoodie on. I think it's worth quite a lot of money, that Paul Smith coat. I believe it is. Maybe I should have put it in my bag and darted. At least got something.

Should we end by briefly touching on loans? I think we talked about Anthony on this podcast, on the midweek debut. Exactly. Well, it's his goal. I can't remember who it was against, but it was a standing volley. Yeah, that was last week when we were trying back from Tottenham. I've not seen his... He was sent off last night. Oh, was he? Yeah, sent off in the final. After he got a really good assist. Pretty sure he was, yeah, sent off. I mean, it's...

it's the type of thing that only happens to united isn't it that he basically goes and looks really good for someone for someone else it's just typical isn't it yeah typical of that football club players the last few years players signed for united look all right for a few games

suddenly fall off a cliff, go somewhere else and then look good again. - It's obviously mostly on the players, but you're not thinking it's part of the club as well because there must be something in it where like, talent is where players go to die. - Yeah, there's clearly something in it. And you know, you're right, it is mostly on the players. It's worth remembering he started his United career very well as well, to be fair. He got three goals in his first three Premier League games and then two in his next 59. So it's no surprise he started well.

But he's clearly a better player than he showed in those final 59 games for United. I was having this conversation with someone on Friday, I think, and said, it's just typical that when players leave, they look good and mention Rashford. And they did make the point that the blame for Rashford is mostly on Rashford. In terms of energy and commitment and hunger, he looks a different player for Villa than he did for United.

And that shouldn't be the case for a professional footballer. But there is clearly something in it that too many players are coming to United and... Their careers are really regressing. Yeah, I mean, I can't think off the top of my head of a signing that you look at and you think that's value for money or they're worth more than that now. The only one at the moment is Dorge when he's played two games, you know, given 10 months. We're still waiting for this kind of...

We mentioned Mikel Arteta a lot. And I know he's not won the Premier League, so he's ultimately, you could say he's failed. But the way he's turned around Arsenal, they'd become such a joke and they were kind of meandering around the European places, struggling quite a bit. And he really changed that culture, got rid of a few bad eggs, had the argument for Bamiyang, didn't he? Which...

You could say it's very similar to Amrim and Rashford. That could be his Aubameyang moment. And we're still waiting for that United to become a serious football club again because I look at Arsenal now and they are a serious football club again. I can't see them dropping out the top three in the next couple of seasons. I don't think I can anyways. I think they do quite well now and they make clever signings. And their culture's right. Yeah, and the culture's improved. I think he's... I think Arteta's a little bit too... Overrated? Dogmatic, to be honest. Maybe not overrated. He's just...

I don't know, I mean, he clearly needed a striker and... Well, exactly, yeah. You know, I think there was an argument in the summer that they looked at Izak and he felt he didn't fit his system. I mean, if he thinks that the answer is Kai Havertz rather than Alexander Izak, then he's asking the wrong question. And... What would be the question? Yeah, exactly. Which one is German? LAUGHTER

I think he's a little bit too inflexible, maybe. The funny thing, and we're going to get into a debate on Arteta here, but the funny thing with Arteta is that he's a Guardiola disciple who has become more like Jose Mourinho than Guardiola by a long way. And I think he probably decided that he needed to try and beat

city that way but but he has turned that club around but he has turned the club around and he made some big decisions in getting rid of big players I guess with Rashford Amarim's kind of started doing that he's kind of said this is how it is you're not playing you're gone that's you know that is kind of what Arteta did and it was it was slow progress after that and that's what

That's where United are now. I mean, I don't think Rashford's going to come back this summer and be eased back in under Amarim. I think it's, I mean, the way he's playing for Villa, you'd probably say Villa are signing permanently at the moment. Yeah, we talked about the transfer bit in the first part and there is an importance of selling players and we talked about Rashford, Anthony. Those are obviously leading candidates to get out the door, bank some money to fund some transfers. Yeah, and it's helpful in that instance that they are doing well out on loan. Although we thought that with Jadon Sancho at Dortmund and it still didn't create a market for him.

Looks like Chelsea are going to... I think Chelsea have got... 25 million, yeah. 25. So I'm guessing that's going to happen now that they won't be able to get out of that. But yeah, in a way it's helpful that they're playing well, that there might be a market for them now. Certainly Rashford and all of that will be profit for PSR. So that'll be particularly helpful. But it's still not a good look that...

players are leaving United and doing well elsewhere really yeah and the way they're acting on social media as well it makes you think I mean don't like what did Sancho comment on freedom freedom I just think I mean that was weird that was petty you wind it in don't you yeah yeah and I don't know what point he's trying to make no um

just a bizarre one that, you know, regardless of Sancho's falling out with Tanag, he was rubbish at Old Trafford and he's been rubbish at Chelsea. It's hard to have some shame in that, isn't it? Well, yeah. And it's not, you know, all right, you've got your freedom if that's what you want. You're not at Old Trafford anymore, but you're only on the bench for Chelsea. And,

you know, you're not playing particularly well. And by all accounts, they don't want to sign you permanently. They've just got to. I think they've started to see the light with Sancho. Yeah. If they could get out of that deal, they would get out of that deal. 100%. He had a good start, didn't he? Or a reasonable start. And everyone was saying, oh, it's a bargain.

comes down on you like a ton of bricks doesn't it the realization that sancho is not the same as he was when he was a teenager at dormant those sort of posts on social media were just embarrassing yeah yeah you're at that level focus on your own career mate just like your social media posts as well just embarrassing wow yeah i know should we leave it there why not yeah um thanks very much as usual thank you steven and thanks to listeners hope you enjoyed this episode of the midweek debate

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