SCOTUS’ nationwide injunction decision and the economy
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Hey everybody, I'm Rima Grace. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where we make today make sense. And I'm Kimberly Adams. Thank you for joining us on the podcast and on the YouTube live stream for everybody who is able to tune in. It is Friday, June the 27th. If you're new around here on Fridays, we have our weekly happy hour episode, Economics on Tap. Hi. Yes. Thanks so much for folks who are joining on YouTube.

we are gonna get into some news then play a game but first why don't we talk drinks what are you drinking yes uh i didn't have a lot of time before the show today so i just went with the box yeah same it's one of those days yeah i i feel like i'm just falling behind today i also had these grand ideas for like a fun drink

but ended up just pulling this sparkling peach water from my fridge. I did like stuff a couple of basil leaves in there though. I was like maybe that'll make it feel a little bit more special. I feel like that officially makes it a cocktail or mocktail at least. Right? I think that counts. Yeah, yeah. It's from my garden so that feels good. Oh yeah, if it's from the garden that definitely makes it count as like something amplified and fancy. Yeah, what's your news Rima? Oh, do you want to go first? I feel like you have a bigger news item.

Yeah, okay. So... No, it's okay. I spent...

My whole day of reporting a story for the morning show about the ruling that came down from the Supreme Court. There were a couple of big ones today, but the one I was focused on was the birthright citizenship ruling, which actually wasn't about birthright citizenship. It was actually about universal injunctions and whether or not the federal court, lower courts have the power to put a hold on the president's policies, federal policies nationwide when

someone in a particular jurisdiction actually asks for relief and the court said, sure you can but not like this. And they are saying that rather than making such use of nationwide injunctions as has been the case in recent history, instead they want everybody filing class action lawsuits which of course make

you know, pursuing these cases much more expensive, much more complicated, and places an additional barrier on it.

You know, I was looking at the implications for businesses and consumers, and it, you know, basically means that whereas before maybe it would be good enough for a trade association to go to a court and say, hey, this is going to hurt all of our members. Now maybe you're going to have to get every single business owner to be like, hey, here's how I'm hurt before you might be able to get a nationwide injunction. It's just it's a very big ruling. This is the way that.

under this administration as well as under the Biden administration, people who have a problem with federal policies get relief. It takes so long for things to work through the courts that an injunction and putting a hold on a policy, at least while the case plays out, has been a really meaningful tool. And this going away or at least being reduced significantly is pretty huge. I was reading some excerpts from Justice Sonia Sotomayor's dissent.

and thought I'd share some quotes. So the federal government was making an argument or tried to make an argument that it'll suffer irreparable harm by not being able to enforce Trump's executive order. And so she wrote, quote, "The injunctions do no more harm to the executive than the Constitution and federal law do. The court's decision is nothing less than an open invite for the government to bypass the Constitution." And then, you know, she went on to say that, "No right is safe in the new legal regime the court creates."

So this is it's a big deal. They're going to be lots of legal battles to come. I was talking with a lawyer today who works with business clients about sort of how this was going to play out. And one of the things that she said was that she was helping her clients kind of adjust their

and had been for some time waiting on this decision, adjust their arbitration agreements and their sort of how their terms of service and things address class action lawsuits. And it wasn't super focused on what I was looking at today, but I was just like, oh yeah, that's right. There are all these businesses that won't allow you to, you know, have a class action lawsuit against them because of their arbitration agreements. And I wonder, like,

an injunction against a federal policy is in a different category, but I imagine there's going to be some kind of overlap. Because also, if the courts get all full up with class action lawsuits for all these different policies, it's going to make it take even longer to actually get stuff done. Yeah, and class action lawsuits are notorious for taking so long.

Okay, well, I'm glad you're talking about that today. I because there yeah, we could keep talking about it because there were also five other opinions, I believe, right? Including decisions allowing parents to I think there were five. There were several. Yeah, a big one that got a lot of attention today was a decision allowing parents to opt their children out of school lessons involving LGBTQ books got a lot of attention. Anyway, check them out. The thing I was going to talk about today that I am going to talk about. So

You know, we talk a lot on Marketplace about the University of Michigan's Consumer Sentiment Index. That is a survey where every month thousands of randomly selected Americans get a letter in the mail asking how they're feeling about the economy. There were new numbers out today. And, you know, no surprise here. People feel bad. They are gloomy when it comes to the job market, the housing market, business conditions.

The numbers showed that people are tiny bit more optimistic, which sounds great. But when you take a step back, you'll see that the numbers are still very low. Like consumer sentiment is still down 18% compared to last December, which tells us that folks are bracing for higher prices. They slow our economy in the coming months.

Now, you might ask, and I've asked myself this, like, why does this matter? And a lot of economists will tell you, like, maybe it doesn't. Like, these are just soft indicators. Feelings are squishy data points. Like, you know, sure, they're near record lows, but like, look at the job market, look at the stock market.

Like things don't look that bad right now when you look at the hard economic data. But I bring this up because I bring all this up because I read a great piece in Bloomberg this morning profiling Joanne Hsu. She's the director of the University of Michigan's Survey of Consumers. And she was like, I mean, first of all, it was it was really well written. So if you want to check it out.

you should but she was like listen like these investors these critical analysts are missing the point consumers drive more than two-thirds of the economy like we have a gut sense of how things are going whether it's out at the grocery store or we're gossiping with our neighbors and co-workers or when we're paying the bills and so she was you know because a lot of times you'll hear critics say like well your age or your health or your political views all shape how we feel like wouldn't that make the data

not, you know, a little problematic or just not accurate. And so she was making the point that these feelings influence what we do with our money. And that way, consumer sentiment becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

And so I found it really interesting. And then she pointed out that this survey is actually rarely wrong. I'm going to read a quote from the article. It says, 1973, for instance, it spotted the worst recession since World War Two, while ever rising sales of TVs and cars and other consumer goods were tricking economists into thinking things were fine.

So who knows what will happen? Obviously, none of us know. But just because sentiment is down right now also doesn't mean that a recession will definitely hit. I think consumer moods go up pretty quickly when the climate starts to look a little different. Like if we get more certainty around tariffs, that could shift things. When I say that at the same time, Trump announced on social media today that he wants to end trade relations with Canada. So who knows what will happen? Yeah.

I'm looking at the chat here. Jin Peck says, I would love for someone to ask me what I think about the economy. I have time to fill it out in detail. Lots of detail. So, Jin Peck, what do you think about the economy? Tell us.

- Impromptu poll before we even get to half full, half empty. What do you all think of the economy? What would the consumer sentiment of the Make Me Smart live stream chat look like? - I wonder. - Mike Marsh says we need to stock up on maple syrup.

Because of the Canada thing. I just got back. I was in Canada a couple weeks ago. You were in Canada. I was and I didn't I did get some maple syrup. I also got some maple flavored bourbon because I am me. I am me. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a must. Every time I go to Canada, I have to get my maple syrup. Yes. That is it for the news, huh? Yeah. Let's play a game.

Well, we're going to take a quick break first, and then when we come back, then we'll play the game. All right. Maybe I should look at the script.

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All right, so now it is time to play a game. Drew Jostad is here to host a round of Half Full, Half Empty. Take it away, Drew. Okay, first up this week, we have an essay from the New York Times that calculates the cost of following sports, that is game tickets, watching on TV, and buying merchandise, has gone up more than 250% in the last 20 years. Are you half full or half empty on the rising price of being a sports fan?

So I saw this article over the weekend and I think I posted it in our like shared here's what we're reading channel on like Monday because one of the really interesting components of it was just how hard it is to like watch a team that you like for

for a whole season because you have to subscribe to like 10 different streaming services to get like the day-to-day games, the home games, the away games versus the championship games. If you want to like watch all of the games of the season of your sport, you need all of these different subscriptions and different tiers of subscriptions. There were stories from business owners who people who own bars talking about

How they're sitting there fighting with their TVs trying to get the game on and watching customers leave just because they don't have the right exact subscription to put it on. And it's just like I am very empty. I'm not a huge sports fan, but I think that like –

At least when I was growing up, it was like a middle class pastime. And if not like something that everybody could do, you could at least get like bad seats in the baseball stadium, you know, and have a day of it. But it feels like that kind of stuff is impossible. We did an interview with...

you know, the head of Angel City, the soccer team in Los Angeles. And everyone was like, Oh, Kimberly, you need to go see a soccer game in DC. And I was like, I want to I will. And then all the tickets I wanted were like sold out at that time. I will go I will go. It's not impossible. I'm not saying that I couldn't get a ticket. The ticket I wanted was not a

um but I'm gonna be going to a soccer game soon what about you half full or half empty on sports yeah I'm also half empty I mean I'm I'm not a huge sports person but it does feel like yeah people are paying more to consume less and I don't love that so I'm gonna say half empty I did go to a pickles baseball game that's the local Portland team here and I had a good time I went a couple weeks ago and that was fun so they're the Portland pickles

Yeah, it's like there's a big old pickle mascot that goes around and you know, went on drag night. It was a good time. Pickle was in a big drag outfit. Do they serve pickles at the stadium? Of course, of course. I had to eat pickles with ranch. Yeah, that was definitely the highlight of the night.

Love it. All right. What's the next one? Next up after a dramatic fall in their share price since the IPO Bumble is laying off 30% of its employees. Are you half full or half empty on the struggles for dating apps? I mean, I probably my opinion about this would feel would be different if I were on the dating apps. But I was just talking with a friend the other day and she was like, I'm done with the I can't I can't do it anymore.

and so from the perspective of my friends who are fed up with them i guess i'm half full because it seems like people are not having luck on these apps yeah our attacks you have some what are what are your thoughts our text has brought me a toy that he wants me to throw and that is that is the please throw the toy yell let's see if he goes for it um

I'm hearing the same thing from my friends where they're all done with the dating app. I've been off of the dating apps for more than a year now. Just it doesn't feel. I said, do you feel lighter?

I don't feel anything anymore about it. I just don't think about it very much. And I've not heard enough good reports from the folks that are on the dating app to incentivize me to get back on there. They think their problem is Gen Z, but it's not just Gen Z. Their problem is Gen Z. Their problem is millennials. Can you all see this? What is he doing?

He's decided that now is the exact best time to be playing with a toy that he wants me to throw. At least your cat's playing with you. Mine has been hiding because I had to give her a vaccine shot yesterday. Now I feel like she's punishing me. She hates you.

Yeah. All right. So I think I am half empty on the future of the dating apps. I don't know what they do to turn things around. I know they're trying from, you know, wanting a business to do well perspective. I wish them the best, but the streets are not in their favor. Yep, they're not. This week, the... All right, what's the next one, Drew? Oh, my God.

The new American time use survey came out and Americans turn out are spending more time at home. Are you half full or half empty? This is a tough one because on one level I am very half full as a homebody. But the part of me that knows I my soul like withers a little being at home and knows that it's actually best for me to be out in the world.

I'm half empty. Like, do you feel like that this week I was inside for most of the week and it felt good in the moment, but holistically, I know it's not great for my mental health and it's a, it's a struggle. I'm a bit of a home body anyway. And so I don't mind being at home and I'm definitely more on the introvert side to where I feel like I do get a, um, a,

my mental health is restored when I'm at home by myself, but I also have a job where I talk to a lot of people on a regular basis. So I feel like I don't get like a realistic understanding of what it actually feels like to be at home and isolated. I have, I'm very lucky to have a really robust friend group and if I want to go out, I can go out. And so from the perspective of me,

I don't mind being at home. But I know that America does have a loneliness problem and people crave connection. And so I'm going to have to say...

half empty because, you know, let's let's all get off of our phones and actually I know that's really what it is. I think my ideal day is being at home most of the day, but then having a lot of touch points like even yesterday, I feel like was a good example where I was at home. But then my friend who's also a neighbor stopped by and we chatted on the front porch for a while. And then I went out in the garden and talked to my neighbor through the fence. And that was really nice. It felt like I wasn't you know, I could stay in the comfort of my space while still interacting with the outside world.

And yeah, I love the comment in the chat again from Jen Peck introverts assemble but not in public. Boy, what's the next one? Next up? Are you half full or half empty on colleges investing in ultimate Frisbee teams in order to boost enrollment?

I heard this interview that Kai did on the PM show. This was really funny about all of these like ultimate Frisbee teams that are cropping up at different universities and stuff. And it's getting quite complicated.

quite competitive and apparently there's like a part of ultimate frisbee where you have to have like good sportsmanship and if you don't like you like lose points or whatever and some teams were getting like knocked for not having good sportsmanship and so uh i i kind of love it i love the idea of you know sports that don't give you cte getting um some play at the university level i guess but yeah so i'll say half full what about you

Yeah, I'm half full on that. Yeah, I'm not a frisbee player, but I appreciate sports that are a little bit chiller, laid back. Why not? There's several folks in the chat pointing out that it's, you know, spending money on sports at universities rather than education or lowering cost for students is kind of another thing. So that's a good consideration. I was just thinking of the spirit of the game, but that's fair too. The spirit.

And Ian Panzer says Ultimate Frisbee is not a chill game, apparently. Is it not? No. All right. Is it time for the poll, Drew? It is.

All right, everybody in the chat, get ready. We're going to lean on you to get the answer. This is another story from Marketplace this week about the reinvention of American malls. The reporter profiled some people who have opened, among other things, a wrestling gym in an old, in a vacant space in a mall, a wedding venue, also apparently even an elementary school. So you have full or half empty on that.

turning these malls into something a little different. Yeah, I'm happy. I have to say most of the malls where I hung out when I was a teenager have either been shut down or they have all these new rules about like when teenagers can actually go there and whether or not you have to be supervised and stuff. And you know, like the mall is sort of this cultural touch point has really shifted with online shopping. And I think

the mall is kind of like one of those third places is I'm sad to have seen that go. And so the idea of there being like enough other things in a mall space to potentially bring back some of that third place enos of it. So if you can go to the gym and drop off your kid at daycare or school or

you know, do whatever else and do some shopping too. I like that idea. And also this like, this is huge infrastructure that otherwise gets destroyed, wasted or just let, allowed to be one down. - Yeah, they've just become like economic dead zones. Yeah. - Yeah. - And it just feels sad.

Yeah, people, Elizabeth Bear has a good idea saying they could be community centers for all of the lonely homeowners. All the lonely home bodies, sorry. And Jason Perringer says they could be pickleball indoor courts. All of those are good ones. Oh, yes.

Yes. Oh, Mighty Unlikely says, I loved the indoor go-kart revamp that happened to a mall. So many malls have become neighborhood spaces. I would definitely go to an indoor go-kart track for sure. Yeah, inspire people to get out of their homes.

Yeah, there's a mini golf course that opened here in DC and it's outside and I, you know, have had a few occasions to be out in the sweltering heat this week and I'm walking by and I see people outside playing mini golf and I'm like, you're a better one than me. If that was inside, I might be tempted. Yeah, maybe. Right? Yeah, but not that. No, no. The conditions have to be right for mini golf. All right, so we've got some poll results. Yeah. Yeah.

We've got some poll results on the reinvention of the American mall. Drumroll, please. Rima, you want to read them? Oh, you're going to give me the drumroll instead. Half full, 94%. Perfect. And then half empty, 5%. Well, thank you to everyone who voted. Yeah, thanks for voting.

That was a fun game. So thank you to everybody who played and that is a wrap on this week. We are going to be back on Monday. In the meantime, you know how to reach us. You can email us at makemesmartatmarketplace.org. You can call us at 508-U-BE-SMART. The cat's totally worn himself out. Now he's just like laid out. Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergseeker. Today's episode was engineered by Charlton Thorpe.

The team behind our Friday game is Emily McCune, Jamila Huxtable, and Antoinette Brock. Daisy Palacios is our senior supervising producer. Sorry, scratch that, our supervising senior producer. I'm going to get it right. Nancy Farghali is executive director of executive producer of Marketplace shows. It's because I drank most of the wine. And Joanne Griffith is our chief content officer. Got any fun plans tonight?

I'm going to bed. I'm tired. You're like, I'm staying home. I'm staying home. I'm being an introverted homebody and I'm taking a bath and going to bed. I'm jealous. Did it occur to you that he'd charmed you in any way? Yes, it did. But he was a charming man. It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story. Because this ties together the Cold War with the new one. I often ask myself now, did I...

know the true Jan at all. Listen to Hot Money, Agent of Chaos, wherever you get your podcasts.