David Hale, ESPN sports writer, tells McElroy & Cubelic what we learned from ACC Media Days after day 1, what Jim Phillips plans and goals are moving forward, and why the ACC is suffering from an identity crisis
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This Chalks94.5 podcast is brought to you by Millennium Satellite and Video. Log on to MSPNOW.com. TV excellence everywhere. That's Millennium. McElroy and Kubelik in the morning starts now. All right, welcome back in. McElroy and Kubelik in the morning. Going to get to our guy David Hale, who covers the ACC for ESPN here in just a moment.

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Iconic Carts has the solution for you. They also have master technicians who are qualified to work on all makes and models of cars and off-road vehicles. Check them out at one of their two locations, downtown and in Chelsea, or you can go online at iconiccarts.com. All right, let's go to the Buyer's Right Hotline. David Hale in Charlotte now for ACC Media Days. David, let's start first before we get into some of these teams and maybe your expectations. This grant of rights for the ACC, sort of where we are as to

Is this going to be presented? Are we going to learn more about it? And then obviously the exit potentially of Florida State and Clemson. Can you just give us sort of an update on where we are with all of that here today?

Well, I showed up at the Hilton in uptown Charlotte, and the ACC still exists. So that's a good start for today. The rest is such a mystery still. What we heard from Commissioner Jim Phillips yesterday was, I think, by far the most forceful, impassioned, emotional version of him we have heard in years.

really since he's been the commissioner of the ACC. He was pretty adamant in criticizing the lawsuits from Florida State and Clemson, saying that they were damaging the league, saying that they're not owning up to agreements that they not only voluntarily signed, but eagerly signed multiple times in the previous decade.

All of these things are true, but what is also true is that Florida State and Clemson are looking to win championships at a national level, and revenue is at the forefront of everyone's discussion if you're not the SEC or the Big Ten right now. And frankly, they're probably looking for more revenue too, but there is an obviously clear gap right there that...

Florida State and Clemson view as a potential existential threat. I think the ACC views their departure as a potential existential threat. So when you have two sides basically fighting for their lives, what you have is not a lot to give. And one of the things that I think Jim Phillips was...

as forceful as he has ever been in saying uh... yesterday was that uh... we are not giving up this fight we will we will fight this as long as we can to preserve the future of the a_t_t_ uh... as far as the legal battles themselves go we've had a number of hearings largely based around uh...

where this trials are going to take place. We have a lawsuit in Leon County, Florida, and Pickens County, South Carolina, and then multiple suits filed by the ACC in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina.

Everybody's won their home court version of this, and I think it's probably a little like the NBA playoffs. It doesn't really start until somebody wins on the road. So that's kind of where we're at with things with the ACC right now. What do you think is the first order of business for Jim Phillips that he can do in the near term? Obviously, there's nothing he can do about what's going on on the perimeter with Florida State and Clemson and the current

I guess lawsuit that's going on to get out of the grant of rights. But what what can he really do in the near term? They added Cal SMU Stanford. But is there anything else they can do to stabilize here in the next 12 to 24 months to kind of solve this problem?

I don't think there's a solution to the problem, but there are a couple of things that I think are at the top of his to-do list. The first is ESPN holds a look-in, basically, on their current TV contract, which has been reported myriad times, runs through 2036. That's part of the problem for Florida State and Clemson. But

Basically, ESPN can decide to opt out of this contract in 2027, and they would have to decide that by February of next year. So getting that picked up is actually a huge priority for the ACC. And everything that I've heard from reporting from both inside and outside of ESPN and the ACC is that it's likely to happen.

But of course, there's so many moving pieces right now with these lawsuits that it makes it more complicated. So, you know, job one is to secure TV rights, a TV rights package through 2036 to make sure that no matter what happens with Florida State and Clemson, everybody else is still going to get their current share of TV revenue for the next decade plus.

Step two, I think, is changing the narrative a little bit. And that is one of the things that I think he was really trying to do with his speech yesterday, is that you look at how the Big 12 is portrayed. And Brent Urmark, to his credit, I think has been a very good face for that league in being very adamant. I don't think he necessarily has the facts on his side all the time, but he will get out there and say, we are the clear-cut number three.

reaching conference in the country and, um, you know, has, I think the, the, as the kids say, the vibes around the big 12 certainly seem a lot better than the ACC right now. But if you look at on paper, the ACC has a network, the big 12 does not. The ACC is bringing in more revenue than the big 12. The ACC has more national championship contenders than the big 12. The ACC has put more teams into the playoffs than the big 12. Like all of these things are, are incredibly accurate. Um,

But the talk around the two leagues is markedly different. So I think Jim Phillips really wants to try to remind people that, like, yeah, there's trouble in the ACC right now, but it's not doom and gloom any more than everybody else is facing that is not named the SEC or the Big Ten. And all of that sort of trickles down to what I think is the most important thing in all of this is, like, could the ACC survive in some sense the loss of Florida State and Clemson?

you know, it certainly would be a different product, but they could survive. But what they don't want happening is a chain reaction. So if they're the big 12 that loses your two marquee brands, but kind of re-evaluates and grows and sets down a new flag, that's not the worst possible outcome. But if you're the Pac-12 and you lose your

lose your two marquee brands, and the whole thing falls apart from there. So Miami and North Carolina or Virginia all look to get out and go somewhere else, too, and the whole league goes away. That's the ultimate problem that they need to avoid. So I think a lot of what Jim Phillips needs to do is shore up his base a little bit over the next year, year and a half as the legal proceedings with FSU and Clemson play out.

Next year, as we enter ACC media days, are Florida State and Clemson going to be a member of this conference? Yes. I think that's pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point. Just, again, not enough has happened in the legal – the courtrooms to say that one side really has –

any clear advantage right now. And so there's not a lot of incentive for either side to negotiate any sort of conclusion to this bitterness. So what you're going to have is the two sides still probably battling in court well into the early part of 2025. And by that point, it will have been way too late to sort of shift gears and move. So I think if you're talking, and I've had conversations with

folks at Florida State and Clemson who knew going into this, the runway for an exit was a long one. This wasn't going to be a, hey, we want to leave and we're going to leave. There was going to be a lot that went into making that happen. So I think they were entirely prepared for a three- to four-year period

process. And I think that's why they filed their lawsuits when they did, is to sort of get the ball rolling before time came that they didn't have any other options. So my guess is the goal would be at this time next year to have a lot more clarity, but I would be shocked if there was any scenario in which Mike Nordell and Davos Sweeney weren't at ACC kickoff this time next year. Finally, onto the field, looking at Florida State in particular, defending champs,

I think most people envision them coming back to earth a bit, but they have reinforced in some places along the line of scrimmage defensively, and they have added, obviously, DJ Uyungle in the portal. So how competitive do you anticipate them being this year? I think they're still going to be pretty good, but it's going to have to be a little bit of a different version of pretty good. The defense is going to be, I think,

every bit as good as they were last year, which I know sounds sort of weird to say when you're losing Trenum Fisk and Jared Burst and some of those guys that were such impactful players, particularly down the stretch last year. But Mike Norvell could not be more enthusiastic about where they are at the line of scrimmage. I think offensive and defensive line, he's thinking this could be as good as he's had it. The secondary is as deep and as good as he's probably had it. So I feel like they're in a good place defensively. Offensively, though, the question is you're replacing –

a guy like Jordan Travis, who is incredibly dynamic as a quarterback, with a guy in D.J. Leungole, who has been a mixed bag, I guess, to say the least. I think that D.J.'s skill set can actually translate pretty well to what Mike Norvell, in an ideal world, wants to do with his offense. But it's going to look different than Jordan Travis. I mean, it's going to be much more of a let's-hand-the-ball-off approach

probably 55% to 60% of the time. We're going to chuck it deep more often. We're not going to have as many sort of inventive quarterback runs, but we're going to play some power QB run with DJ. All of those things are going to probably look a little more similar to the Mike Norvell offensive line.

we saw during his time at Memphis and what we saw him running with Jordan Travis. They need a receiver to step up, probably a tight end too. But they're good at the line of scrimmage and I always think that's probably a good sign for the team moving into the season. But, you know,

13-0 is a big task to live up to a second straight year. And I'll be honest with you, the other thing that was hard to ignore as I've talked to FSU all offseason and again yesterday is that that playoff snub last year is still a very fresh wound for them. And I think that can go one of two ways. Either it is a motivating factor to try and stick it to everybody who didn't believe in them,

or it is a black cloud that sort of hangs over you and proves to be a distraction. And I think it'll be interesting to see how Florida State, you know, I just get the sense they're not looking to turn the page, but maybe rewrite the script on that.

David Hale joining us on the Buyer's Right Hotline, live from ACC Media Days, covers the ACC for ESPN. Find his work at ESPN.com. I'm sure you've seen some of the buzz, some of the conversation around this, but I'm just interested to hear your thoughts on it. Do you believe the ACC is currently suffering from an identity crisis? Yes, but that is a bit of their own making to some extent. I mean, I think, look, I will tell you just from my own perspective, I don't think that the ACC's

around the playoff decision last year was heard enough. And some of the more, you know, I don't want to put

put this all on ESPN because it's certainly not all of that on them, but I think Florida State had a good case to be made that just was not the easier case to be made, and I don't think it was made very articulately by a lot of folks in the media, but I am not a blame the media person for obvious reasons, and the fact of the matter is Jim Phillips was not forefront around the playoff time last year, and Greg Sankey was. The ACC has shot itself in the foot again and again and again on the field over the years, and while that was not

largely the case last year, those narratives take a long time to change. So that's on the ACC. So, you know, I think if you want the media conversation around where the ACC is to change, you can bang your head against the wall and say, start saying nicer things about us, or Clemson can go out and beat Georgia in week one. Tennessee can go out and beat Tennessee in week two. These are important games that will shift a conversation and force the media to talk about your league differently. I just

Like, I don't think they're necessarily wrong in some of the complaints that they have, but I definitely think that they could do themselves a lot of favors in easing everyone else's burden on how they talk about them. David, we appreciate the time. I do want to ask you one more before we let you run. When you look through the ACC top to bottom, how many teams do you think their fans should expect them to be in the college football playoff this year?

Expect? I might say zero on that one. I'm not sure that there is. Okay, let's say have realistic expectations of maybe making the playoff. And that's a much different conversation because I think this is as deep as the top of the league has been. Again, I'm not sure that there's like a team that you would say in a four-team playoff era has a great

but certainly FSU and Clemson. But I think Miami has gone all in. They are the proverbial poker player who pushed their chips into the middle of the table, and they have not done it before, and they've had a lot of talent. But this is a very talented Miami team, and Mario Cristobal, I think, needs to prove something. Their fans reasonably expect

big things. The way Virginia Tech ended the season last year, I think their fans are very excited. Louisville, I think, has put together a very good team again this year after coming off playing in the ACC Championship last year. NC State, I think, has probably got their most talented team that they have had certainly since the Ryan Finley era and maybe going back to the Phillip Rivers era there. So they're in that conversation. And look, even North Carolina, I think they're going to have

to look a little bit different depending on who the QB is. It's not going to be the Drake Mayer-Sam Howell show, but I think they've shored up that defense a lot. They've gotten a lot better at the line of scrimmage. They're in the conversation. So they're a little like the Big 12, and I think it's going to be a super fun league where not a lot is going to be easily predicted. On the other hand, it's a little like the Pac-12 used to be where maybe they chew themselves up and spit themselves out throughout the season as well, and the end result is you've got a bunch of 9-3, 8-4 teams.

You had to bring up that NC state team. Didn't you? Hmm. I just kept that in my back pocket waiting, waiting for the right time. Cool. Thanks, David. We appreciate the time. Uh, have fun in media days. We'll catch up soon. See you guys. There you go. David Hale covers the ACC for ESPN. Find his work at ESPN.com at a David Hale joint on Twitter. Always does great stuff. Great conversation there around that conference. Um,

You won't be able to watch football for a little while, but there are a couple of things that are coming out before actual games begin that you will be able to watch. Will you watch them? We'll discuss what they are and have that conversation next on Mac and Cube in the morning. Catch up with all things McElroy and Kublik in the morning by subscribing to the podcast. Mythically, he's grown. He's almost like a little bit bigger than a player, right? Like the myth of Bo Jackson. Like, rate, and download the show from the Jock Tap or wherever you get your podcasts.

At your job, do you ever have to deal with a nose roller? How about a snub pulley? Well, if you're installing a new conveyor belt system, dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language. Luckily, you've got a team ready to help. Grainger's technical product specialists are fluent in maintenance, repair, and operations. So whenever you want to talk shop, just reach out. Call, click Grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

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