349: She Was Murdered While Visiting Mozambique & They Covered It Up: Justice for Elly Warren
01:09:10 Share

Now more than ever, Lowe's knows you don't just want a low price. You want the lowest price. And with our lowest price guarantee, you can count on us for competitive prices on all your home improvement projects. If you find a qualifying lower price somewhere else on the same item, we'll match it. Lowe's. We help. You save. Price match applies the same item. Current price at qualifying retailers. Exclusions and terms apply. Learn how we'll match price at Lowe's.com slash lowest price guarantee.

Looking to buy your first car or home? Understanding your FICO score is key to achieving your life goals. Knowing your FICO scores helps you apply for loans with confidence and avoid surprises. With MyFICO, you get access to your FICO score, credit reports, 24-7 monitoring, and alerts on the go. Take the mystery out of your score and get your FICO score for free today. Visit MyFICO.com slash free. That's MyFICO.com

slash free and discover the score lenders use most. Hey, what is up everybody? And welcome back to Mile Higher Podcast episode 348. And I'm your host, Kendall. I'm your host, Josh. And we are joined by Tom and Ian.

How you guys doing? Hello. I'm good. Yeah. Hanging in there. I feel like Tom's been on here a lot lately. And I love it. And the audience loves it. Yes. We love having Tom. Well, thank you to everybody who likes me being on. This is what now five episodes in a month. Yeah, I know. It's been kind of weird. We haven't had Janelle here a lot and Janelle's going through a really tough time right now, guys. So definitely maybe send her some love in the comments. I'm sure she'd appreciate that. But yeah, it's been it's been nice to have you, Tom. It always is nice. And

You two were co-producing the sesh for us this week, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was amazing. I can't wait to... I told Josh we need to sit down and listen to the episode. You guys, if you guys want to hear these two... Yeah, I definitely got to hear some of these stories that were shared. We were divulging information too much, but it was really fun. So thanks for helping out during these times. But yeah, guys, today we have a...

Really, really difficult episode, to be honest. It's very, very exciting. It's horribly tragic, horribly sad. It's infuriating on a whole other level, as are many of these cases. But this one just especially hit home for me, which I'll talk about later. But it's just, ugh. I know. It's horrible. It's horrible. But yeah, we're going to be talking about the...

suspicious death which it's definitely a murder yeah i feel comfortable just saying murder of ellie warren and the reason you know i don't just flat out say murder is because the investigation into her murder is just such a mess uh she she was over in mozambique in africa at the time of her she's australian and she was visiting there traveling there

And so the authorities over there just absolutely did nothing and actively covered up what actually happened to her in just the worst way possible. It's truly horrible. And her family has just been left with basically nothing. And they had to do all of the investigating themselves because not only did the Mozambique authorities do a horrible job, but also the Australian authorities, the Australian federal police,

Knew a lot of things at the time when this all went down and didn't do anything either. And it's like, the big question is why? Why not do anything? And, you know, there's obviously lots of theories there. And also what's really horrible is that the family doesn't know what happened to her exactly. Other than what's been sort of divulged via the autopsies. But even those have been confusing. Yeah. And there's a lot of, I mean, just outright lying going on.

But yeah, just the journey of her father in his pursuit of justice is truly, truly inspirational. Honestly, it is. It's beautiful, but unbelievably tragic and heartbreaking to see him. There's a...

It's a 60 minutes, but they're the 20 minute episode. Yeah, it's it's it's just it was a segment on 60 Minutes Australia. So it's part of a larger. Oh, OK. I mean, I've always wondered when it's short like that. OK, that would make sense. But yeah, it's just that episode just tore us both to pieces, especially as parents now just his.

to figure out what happened and get justice. And he's certainly not giving up. Yeah, it's a real story of a father to go to the ends of the earth to, as he puts it,

defend his daughter's dignity at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is very admirable and yeah, motivational. Honestly, it's just a father's love. A parent's love is unlike anything else. And so truly, truly inspiring individual. But let's let's go ahead and get into the case here, beginning with who Ellie was, because Ellie was a really, really cool

Very young. Only 20 years old at the time of her death, but she really had already lived a full lifetime by that point. Very adventurous and down to earth. Seems

Seemed like a good, good salt of the earth person, you know? Definitely. So Ellie Rose Warren was born on June 24th, 1996 at Sandringham Hospital in Melbourne, Australia, where she would spend most of her early years. And she was the first child of Nicole and Paul Warren, who divorced when Ellie was still young. And Nicole went on to marry David Carafella, who was a very present stepfather for Ellie and her younger siblings as well, Sam and Christy, whom she loved spending time with.

And according to Ellie's father, Paul, quote, Paul did say that Ellie's teenage years were trying times, but nothing outside of the usual. I think it is always pretty much trying times for teenagers. I am dreading those days.

But he said that she could be loud, argumentative, adventurous, defiant, rebellious, but still maintain her caring and strong-willed personality. And Ellie and Paul often argued about issues that Ellie really had set beliefs about, but he said that these arguments were always good fun, which I feel like is such an Australian dad thing to say. Like, the arguments were good fun. It's true. I mean, that's exactly the way he puts it on the blog. It was good fun. Yeah, I know. He's...

I loved him. He's so cute. I just love Australian people. And even her teenage boyfriend, Luke, said that Ellie would debate anything because she was so intelligent and always right. Paul noted that Ellie had the upper hand in arguments because she made a lot of sense and you never needed to question what she said. So she sounds brilliant.

And as Ellie got older, Paul said that she became one of the most fearless but fair, caring, loud, opinionated, and talkative people that we all knew. And after a family trip to Africa in 2012, Ellie had a quote addiction to traveling and fell in love with the people that she would meet when she was in new countries and the abundance of wildlife in the areas that she chose to travel to. And

And after this first family trip to Africa, Ellie started working part-time jobs in addition to her schoolwork to save money for future solo trips. And by the time Ellie was 20, she had already self-funded trips to Bali, to Thailand, Central America, Africa, and all throughout Australia. But despite her constant traveling, Ellie was also able to complete year 12 successfully and

and planned to study marine biology. And this is what led her to Underwater Africa, which is a volunteer organization that teams passionate young people with professional marine biologists on daily dive trips off the coast of Mozambique to study sea life. And the group is also dedicated to marine conservation and research, spending time studying the waters between Mozambique and Madagascar.

And so Ellie planned to spend six weeks with underwater Africa before heading back to Australia on November 13th, 2016, and then going on another trip to New Zealand with her boyfriend the following weekend. So it just shows you how busy and energetic she was. I don't think I could...

do that much traveling, honestly. But this is before she began her secondary education career at James Cook University in Queensland, where she would officially study marine biology. Ellie's future, like her beliefs, seemed to be pretty set in stone, and she was excited to explore Mozambique when she arrived in the tourist town of Tofo in October 2016. Yeah, Tofo looks...

Really scenic. And it's definitely kind of known mostly for its diving. Yeah. Seems like there's a lot of really good scuba diving off the coast of Mozambique, specifically whale sharks. It's a big tourist draw to go snorkeling or diving with whale sharks. It looks so beautiful there. But otherwise, it's kind of this quiet, cozy place.

You know, that's got your restaurants. It's kind of touristy, I think. Yeah. You know, just reading through like travel bloggers reviews of Tofo is interesting.

There's a lot of like vendors and a lot of sort of people trying to get to sell you stuff on the beaches and things like that because there's lots of expats and tourists there. But Australia with its location down there, they have access to a lot of really great vacation destinations. They do. They do. Real easily. Bali is like one of the most popular ones, which I'm kind of jealous of. Thailand. Yeah. Yeah.

The Maldives are over there. All the really nice beach spots. Yeah, not too far to Singapore. Yeah. Yeah. You got the Philippines, Malaysia. Yeah. And then, yeah, Africa is not too terribly far. Tofo's colonial history dates back to at least the 16th century when Portuguese traders set up a trading post in the town of Iambanye, now the largest city near the small village only about 13 miles away.

During the colonial period, locals were forced to work on cashew plantations for the Portuguese merchants in the region, a system that lasted until the mid-20th century. During the 1960s, amidst Mozambique's struggle for independence, Tofo actually became a major center of resistance, housing, and supporting the revolutionaries with their easy access to the beautiful Indian Ocean. After Mozambique gained independence in 1975, Tofo became a major tourist destination, with most businesses supporting tourists through hotels,

restaurants, bars, and offshore experiences. Tofos year-round population rests around 15,000, which is not super small, but it's not also super, super large as well. So a lot

Most people, I would say, probably know who's living there. Something to keep in mind. However, as a major tourist hub, that number can swell considerably depending on that time of year. So obviously when the weather's nice during peak season, that number often fluctuates up. Tofo has a long, sandy beach, and right off of that beach is clear blue waters that attract many visitors each year. And a sizable portion of the town's population is made up of Western expats.

who visited once and then just were like, hey, it's beautiful here. I love it. And I can live here for, you know, not a whole lot of money. So I'll just stay here. However, the situation wasn't exactly perfect in Mozambique following its independence. And really, even to today, Mozambique is still a place you got to be careful in for sure. There's definitely travel advisories and a lot of safety concerns, especially for foreigners. But

Following its independence, Tofo largely stayed out of the conflict, but the Mozambican Civil War raged from 1977 to 1992, after Western-backed militias attacked the socialist revolutionaries who'd won the country's independence back in 1975. And while the war ended in 1992 following the fall of the Soviet Union, the two groups still fought periodically, and even most recently between 2013 and 2018, which was right when Elie was visiting.

Other terrorist groups have also engaged in activity within the country, mainly in northern Mozambique, which I was looking up the travel advisory and it's like, Tofo, relatively safe place to go. You know, your basic safety things, don't go out by yourself at night, you know, don't go in the rural areas. But it seems like if you go beyond some of these kind of tourist hubs,

The risk of danger goes up significantly, including terrorist activity, kidnapping, all those things. And also human trafficking is another big issue in this region since at least 2009.

And in 2009, Mozambique was specifically known as a source and destination for those engaged in human trafficking. And recently, the country has put forward measures to try to stop the spread of human trafficking within the region, especially in tourist destinations, which currently has a 4.5 out of 10 for prevalence of human trafficking. It was placed on the U.S. Department's tier two watch list in 2017, one year after Ellie made her trip.

But tourist destinations have other more unique issues as well, since the entire economy is geared towards tourism, especially in smaller towns like Tofo. Measures to combat street crime and investigate crimes are basically non-existent, which you kind of find interesting because in other places I feel like Mexico.

For example, I feel like the Mexican government has put quite a bit of money and resources into keeping the tourist towns safe. And for the most part, most people feel safe going to Mexico because there is a large police presence. And for the most part, you know, things things don't go go crazy, although things do happen. I don't know.

But it depends on the situation. But I think for the most part. And so, yeah, they have. But in TOFO, it seems like they kind of do that, kind of don't do that. But it really, as we'll get into, it seems like law enforcement is almost non-existent, if not completely corrupt. It seems. Because there's gangs operating in the area, basically. Yeah.

without any sort of oversight from law enforcement or enforcement from them whatsoever. And there's a lot of paying off the police here. So can you really trust the police to keep you safe? Likely not, as we'll see. While usually the gang operations going on doesn't usually affect tourists in this area, especially towns like Tofo, it is still important to keep this in mind when Ellie settled in at the Casa Berry Lodge on the beach in Tofo.

These days, I don't carry cash ever, really, unless I absolutely need to. And so, you know, if I'm out with friends, you know, we're like, who's going to pay for dinner? You know, I have to go through all the pain of like, how much cash do you have? Oh, I don't have any cash. All right. Well, you have to pay me back later. Well, what app am I going to pay you on?

Just stop all that nonsense. You don't need to waste time getting cash from the ATM. You don't need to waste time figuring out what app to use. Just get Cash App. It makes everything so much simpler. When everybody's on Cash App, you can...

split the bill super easy through the app. There's so many different ways that you can ping people for requests for money. You can even personalize your payments to your friends. There's custom text stamps or backgrounds that you can choose. It just makes it so much more fun to split the bill with Cash App. It's fast, it's safe, and it's just way less stressful. Plus, you know, nobody's got a checkbook anymore. I mean, what are those? Literally, just use a Cash App.

You don't need a checkbook anymore. I don't even have one. I go to the bank and I ask for a check once in a while and they're like, why aren't you using Cash App, bro? And I'm like, you're right. And I walk out of the bank and I go use my phone to pay whoever I need to pay. Friends, vendors, whoever maybe, the handyman, better have Cash App or I make them get Cash App right there on the spot. It's just super easy, instant setup. You don't even need to put your bank account info in, just an email, phone number,

there you have it safe and they'll let you know if you're being scammed if you you know are texting a number putting a number email in it'll warn you be like yo this is scammer stop what are you doing there's so many reasons to love cash up i could go on and on just just get cash up already for a limited time only new cash app users can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash

For real, there's no catch. Just download Cash App and sign up. Use our exclusive referral code, MileHigher, in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days, and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. It's beautiful. Terms apply. That's money. That's Cash App.

While usually the gang operations going on doesn't usually affect tourists in this area, especially towns like Tofo, it is still important to keep this in mind when Ellie settled in at the Casa Berry Lodge on the beach in Tofo. So Ellie's official role in Tofo was to help a team of scientists research the marine life in the Indian Ocean off of the coast of Mozambique. And according to Paul, Ellie loved every minute of it. And it truly seemed like she was...

destined to do this type of work. The team dove just about every day, weather permitting, of course, and was exposed to the expansive array of marine life off of the coast of Mozambique. And Ellie's mother, Nicole, recalled getting a call from Ellie after seeing her first whale shark in the wild. I mean, what a cool experience. How many people can say they've seen a whale shark?

Not me. Pretty fucking awesome. Very jealous. But yeah, she had always loved sharks and had never gotten up close and personal with one before this instance. And according to Nicole, when the team was alerted that a whale shark was in the area, Ellie asked to go in the shark cage and get a better look at it. I'm sure that was such a cool experience. But aside from the marine life, exploring the wilderness on land and befriending the locals, the trip was pretty non-eventful.

Most evenings would end up with Ellie and her friends hanging out at the beach and relaxing in the lodge, maybe grabbing a few drinks at a beachside bar that operated out of a tin shed called Victor's. Sounded like a great trip. But that was the plan for November 8th, 2016, towards the end of Ellie's trip to Mozambique. Ellie had a flight to travel back home to Australia on November 18th, and she wanted to get as much out of her final days

with underwater Africa as possible. So she had a planned diving excursion early in the morning of the next day, November 9th. But still, her friends were planning to grab a few drinks at Victor's that night and hang out on the beach. And an interesting side note, it's actually illegal to drink alcoholic beverages on the beaches in Mozambique. However, we're not completely sure if this is enforced across the entire country or just for certain non-touristy areas. But yeah, that was

I've never heard of that. Yeah, it was interesting that I came across that because in every other story I've heard about people vacationing, specifically in Tofo, they're like, yeah, you know, we grab drinks at the beach late at night. Yeah. Maybe it's just like it's technically a rule, but it's not. It's not enforced. Right. So their night began around 6.30 p.m. when Ellie, Jade and other friends from underwater Africa met at Kasa Berry Lodge for a few drinks. And in a few recent interviews, Jade and her friends

Jade has said that Ellie only drank water that night, so she wouldn't be hungover for her scuba trip the next morning, which makes sense. However, in earlier interviews with other friends, they stated that she had one or two drinks, but she definitely did not appear drunk or even tipsy. We're not sure if she

drink at all. It's quite possible she didn't and people were just confused or maybe she just had one or two. Later in the evening, the group went to Victor's and had a few drinks before going to the home of a local friend. However, it was here that Ellie decided to part ways with the group. She then headed back to Casa Berry Lodge to grab her phone and told her friends she would meet them again at Victor's. When Ellie returned to the bar, she saw the group drinking on the beach outside and went inside to grab a quick drink.

Jade said, quote, she was planning on coming back to us. Ellie definitely wasn't drunk. She was completely coherent and sober. However, Ellie never did return to the beach. Eventually, her friends assumed that she had just gone back to the lodge for an early night in.

Because, again, she had to prepare for the next day's scuba trip and get up, you know. And that's a pretty physically grueling thing to do, and you want to get a good night's rest. But in reality, this would be the last time that anyone would ever see Ellie alive. At around 5 a.m. on November 9th, 2016, a local fisherman found Ellie's body lying in the hard dirt of a public toilet block only 40 meters from Victor's bar. Which, a toilet block is just...

A lot of the buildings don't have toilets in them, so this is like a group of essentially outhouses kind of all together that everybody in the area uses. So she was right outside one of these. When this fisherman discovered her body, she was sprawled face down in the dirt with her underwear pulled halfway down her legs and her shirt torn violently from one shoulder. The fisherman went to tell the authorities, but luckily he snapped a photo of Ellie's body before he left the scene. And you might be thinking,

Like, why is that lucky that he did that? Well, we'll tell you here in a minute. But then around two hours later, another local woman came upon Ellie's body. And this time she was in a completely different position. Her underwear was pulled back up and she was lying in a bowing prayer position with her face in the dirt as if she had fallen face first. While an investigation was launched, Ellie's family was informed of her death. And Paul, her father, found out from a phone call with Ellie's sister, Catherine.

who said explicitly that Ellie was murdered. And from early on in the investigation surrounding Ellie's death, both Paul and other members of her family knew that Mozambican investigators and the Australian Federal Police were not doing all they could to look into her death accurately, quickly, and really in any way at all.

And it was possible at this point that they were even actively trying to cover her death up. The real reason for why she died. Because just from square one here, Mozambican officials are running with the idea that Ellie had taken a bunch of drugs, had overdosed, and then just fallen face first into the dirt around this toilet block, which this is just how she died. She overdosed and then died.

ended up based down. Ridiculous. Honestly, so offensive. Especially like what is that based off of? And as we'll see here in a minute, there's no evidence to suggest this is true at all. According to the first official Mozambican autopsy report, which listed death homicide as the most likely cause of death,

She was actually killed by a large amount of sand that had entered her throat and blocked her airways. However, Mozambican investigators maintain that Ellie was not killed but instead died of an accident following heavy drug use, even though her autopsy report did not reveal any sign of drug use. How can they say that? I don't know. That's a... Just insane.

It's just blatant cover up. It's like blatant incompetence or cover up here. I mean, not in competence. I don't think it's just we're going to lie and that's it. Fuck you. That's what it seems like to me. But even though the first official autopsy says, yeah, homicide, it's like, what? How do we go from that to this? Hmm.

It's not makes doesn't work with the narrative they want to spin here. Exactly. So following media reports in the wake of Ellie's death, most seem to point to the possibility that she had been raped and murdered. This prompted local police detective Juma Duato to give an interview to The Age in November of 2016, saying that he was worried reporting that Ellie was murdered would give Tofo a quote bad name like it's not safe. She didn't have a scratch.

didn't have a bruise on her, indicating there was violence or rape. And that is his quote. However, this is not true. Ellie did have injuries. Two pathologists who had completed autopsies on her body found that she had sustained abrasions on her knees, her face, her mouth, and her nose. The second autopsy, which was performed by forensic pathologist Dr. Patricia Klepp in South Africa, found that Ellie's death was, quote, "...consistent with aspiration of sand."

and that the sand in her throat had been packed in there. Both pathologists noted that Ellie's body had tested negative for any sign of drug use. And we will explain the sand here in a moment because that is such a disturbing part of this and something that I personally never heard of. I'm sure it's happened before.

many times but yeah I had never heard of something like this and we'll have to go over exactly what happened but it is so disturbing to think about what the end of her life was like yeah so to make matters worse despite the finding that Ellie's body attested negative for any signs of drug use her clothes and belongings were incinerated by Mozambican officials following her first autopsy what the hell's up with that I mean I've never heard of that before

They're like, oh, we're not going to need these anymore. Just incinerate them. Is that standard protocol or is that just like, you know, they just...

did that for this particular case. Who knows? But private investigator and retired Victorian homicide detective Charles Bozina said that Ellie's clothes should have been forensically examined by Australian authorities. He said that the Australian Federal Police should have told Mozambican officials, we'll take possession of that clothing, and that Ellie's injuries and cause of death were consistent with assault, and that her attackers had used the sand to quiet her. He said, quote, possibly she's screaming, they've got to quiet her, so

They just got a handful of sand and pushed it into her mouth.

While the AFP is very limited in foreign jurisdictions, there is a process that can be undertaken to allow their investigators from Australia to come into Mozambique and take a look at the case. This would be a mutual assistance request that the Australian government could have filled out if there was enough cause for concern, which obviously in this case, there is cause for concern. According to a later inquest into Ellie's case, the Australian Federal Police filed no MAR. What's up with that?

The AFP would later state that they attempted to take possession of Ellie's belongings before Mozambican officials destroyed them. But again, there's no official proof that this request was ever even made. So we have to just take them on their word. And I think their word is cheap at this point. And so it sounds like they just fucking dropped the ball and.

Mozambique just did whatever they wanted. Yeah. Which is really sad. The only item of her clothing that was returned to her family was her badly ripped t-shirt. And I want to play this clip. This is Paul being interviewed on Nine News Australia. I think it says everything you need to know about the impact that this has had on Ellie's family. Especially when I know that it's covered up. Now, look.

The Mozambique authorities said there was no signs of struggle at the crime scene, right? And this is how he's told. Look at it. It's totally ripped apart. The coroner knows this. Oh, Paul. They should be ashamed of themselves.

The AFP and coroner's court, I tell you what, six years this has gone on for. She's got blood force for trauma on the face. Her top's ripped apart. Her body was moved from the beach to another location. They've got all these facts.

We can sense your anger and your frustration. It's clear. I mean, that's proof right there that we need the answers. And not only have we don't have them, but there is somebody walking around out there who committed this and we don't know who that is. And that's the worst part about it. Now, I know, Paul, that you're calling on the Attorney General, Mark Dreyfus, to step in. Do you think that's likely to happen? Well, it has to. Because the AFP have covered this up as well, right?

He has to now have an inquest. The Prime Minister has to step in here. We can't have this. Other Australian families, this will happen to if we don't do something about it now. It's clear to see your passion is still there, Paul, and let's hope for your sake, for Ellie's sake, of course, and for everyone else that we do get some answers that you very much deserve. Paul, thank you so much for your time this morning. Thank you, Sarah. God, it is just heartbreaking to see him wearing that shirt and he's just so...

Like you can just tell the toll that this has taken on him, the absolute mental anguish, just horrendous to have no answer. It's just got to be so frustrating. Yeah. When there's just a couple things that were mentioned in there, one being, so the area that her body's found in near the toilet block, again, it was just like hard dirt, not sand. So he mentioned there that clearly her body was moved. The sand found there,

by the pathologist during the autopsy was sand from the beach, it sounds like. It was not sand in this area, so therefore... Different color. Body was moved. Yet there's no mention of that whatsoever in any sort of investigation. It's just this is what Paul found, you know, Paul put two and two together. Right. And Paul's really done all of the investigating in this case. Yeah. Which is really frustrating. And he's obviously frustrated at, you know, his own government for not doing more to help him

try to figure out what happened to his daughter. You know that moment at night when you're locking up, turning off the lights, making your routine checks around the house. I know we all do it. I do it every single night. I have a specific way I do it to make sure every door is locked, every window is closed, every security bar is pulled down. I make sure my house is so secure

certified Fort Knox. But what makes my house truly secure is the security system because it is top notch. Cameras are something out of the future. We're talking simply safe home security because here's the thing about simply safe for all of you out there who didn't know most security systems only take action after someone breaks in. You know, you hear the alarm. It's too late. The person's already in your house.

Well, with SimpliSafe's new ActiveGuard outdoor protection, it helps stop break-ins before they happen because their AI-powered cameras and live monitoring agents detect suspicious activity around your property. Somebody's slinking around your property. They're going to get hit with some annoying, annoying vocals coming out of your cameras that are telling them, like, get off the property now. We're calling the police.

people are going to turn around and run away. And that's all thanks to Simply Saves Live monitoring agents and their AI technology that's keeping your house certified like crazy.

Fort Knox, man. Those live monitoring agents are ready to talk to those potential burglars in real time. They'll even turn on the spotlights, which will blind them. And then they'll call the police all at the same time. Burglars have no chance of getting in and they proactively deter crime before it even happens. Plus there's no contracts, no hidden fees. None of that nonsense that all these other security companies are still doing in this day and age, which blows my mind. Nobody wants to mess around with that.

Nothing makes me more mad when there's a hidden fee or a surprise contract with something. Not with Simply Safe. 4 million plus Americans trust Simply Safe, including myself. It's ranked the number one in customer service by Newsweek and US Today. And guess what? Monitoring plans started around $1 a day. Your security is worth $1 a day. 60-day money-back guarantee. No reason not to try it. You can make a system for all homes of all sizes, even apartments. You name it. A tent.

In the park, you can have SimpliSafe protect you. All you need to do is visit simplisafe.com slash milehire to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com slash milehire because there's no safe like SimpliSafe. So at this point in the case...

The Australian Federal Police now have two independent autopsies which stated that Ellie was a victim of a violent homicide. There's former homicide detectives saying that she was murdered, and there's evidence that proves that there was some sort of cover-up, and yet they still did nothing. As early as 2016, the AFP had seen the photo taken by the fisherman who had initially found Ellie's body before its position was changed to the prayer position.

which had been cited by the Mozambican investigators. But still, even with this knowledge, the AFP never filed a MAR to investigate the death of Elliot Warren, which just...

It's just like, what? Just gross negligence here. Why? What are we doing? Clearly something happened here. There's a cover-up going on. Why isn't the Australian authorities trying to get to the bottom of it? Her body was embalmed following the second autopsy. Without her belongings and any additional forensic analysis of her body, there's not much more you can get from it. ♪

At Bright Horizons, infants discover first steps, toddlers discover independence, and preschoolers discover bold ideas. Our dedicated teachers and discovery-driven curriculum nurture curiosity, inspire creativity, and build lasting confidence so your child is ready to take on the world.

Come visit one of our Bright Horizons centers in the greater Chicago area and see for yourself how we turn wonder into wisdom. Schedule your visit today at brighthorizons.com. Looking to buy your first car or home? Understanding your FICO score is key to achieving your life goals. Knowing your FICO scores helps you apply for loans with confidence and avoid

And discover the score lenders use most.

However, Paul and the rest of the Warren family had no idea how badly both the Mozambican and Australian officials had handled the investigation into Ellie's death until April of 2017. On April 6th, Paul received two official police reports from Mozambique's top criminal investigation police, CERNIC, the first of which stated that Ellie had died of an overdose. However, CERNIC was unaware that Paul had already seen the two independent autopsies that stated Ellie had no drugs in her system.

I'm just like, critical clerical. Yeah, like how badly of a fucking clerical error is it to have an entirely wrong cause of death? Yeah, come on. When has that ever happened? I can't believe they even tried to make that statement.

that as an excuse so stupid that's just infuriating honestly yeah was that a compute what somebody pressed the wrong but check box on the computer or what does that even mean doesn't even make sense i mean i refuse to believe that like a police data computer you know is like a multiple question like select this yeah and you accidentally selected it yeah whoopsie little slip of the finger yeah no fucking way and where's like the chain of custody there is there anybody who's like

double checking this before it goes into like the records you know what I mean like there's got to be some chain of command here that's actually processing this but in Mozambique who knows I mean it could just be literally some some guy yeah doesn't even know what's going on and dude think about how like infuriating and frustrating it is just talking about it here imagine this being your child your sister your brother your family member and dealing with shit like that

It'd be hard not to go to Mozambique and bring the level of this place to the ground. I'm just so impressed by how...

calm Paul has stayed and like focused and you can see how it's like eating alive the frustration the anger but he's staying you know true to the mission and just have so much respect for him and their whole family Paul's obviously extremely pissed about the two separate police reports made only four days apart and he reached out to the Australian Federal Police to see if they could file a MAR and investigate the case themselves and not only were they aware of Cernak's extreme critical clerical error but now that

that her death had been ruled a homicide, it had reached the classification requirement for them to file a MAR, since Ellie, an Australian citizen, had been the victim of a homicide or murder in a foreign country. However, despite this, the Australian Federal Police still did not file any sort of MAR and even claimed at one point that it had not received the Mozambican police reports, even though they had been logged on both the 6th and 10th of April 2017. So, what the fuck? What is going on?

It's like we can talk all day about how fucked the Mozambican police are, which they are clearly. But also the Australian federal police, again, they now this is the requirement for you to fire a mutual aid, a mutual assistance request. Yeah. And still they're like, we're just going to sit on this. And this isn't even a year after she was killed. Like this. It's it's really, really frustrating that like.

both jurisdictions are just basically turning a blind eye to this. Yeah. And that's what we were talking about kind of earlier off the show. It just seems like around the world, the law enforcement and judicial system, the justice systems are just so fucked up. It's insane. Like never ceases to amaze me. Well, I mean, it's also no coincidence that most violent crimes in popular tourist areas typically don't ever get solved. Yes. Because you don't want to give your

your money, your cash cow, you know, a bad eye. You don't want to discourage people from coming to your spot. Same thing in the U.S., like a lot of places that are like beach tourist vacation spots in Florida. Yeah. Tons of unsolved cases. So according to Paul, in October of 2018, he had had enough of the AFP and there was no trust at all in anyone. Don't blame him.

So he decided he needed to go to Mozambique himself and investigate the case independently if anything was going to be accomplished. And he literally went by himself. I was asking Ian, did he have a friend there who wasn't on camera that he didn't see? No, he went there alone, which it's not the fact that he was traveling that amazes me. It's just to go on...

A journey like that to go and investigate your daughter's murder by yourself is so taxing. And I don't think I would have the strength to to do that alone. He's very brave. But he said during his first visit to Tofo that his heart was heavy, but his adrenaline was pumping. And I can see that.

what he means by that. He visited the beaches that Ellie had spent time at. He spoke with the locals at Victor's bar about her death. And he visited the lodge where Ellie had met her friend Jade. And he actually sat in the chair where she was last seen alive by her friends. And there's a clip of that actually in that 60 minutes short episode we were talking about. And oh my God, that is what like truly...

There were several parts in that where I started crying, but that was just so, so hard to see. I can't imagine sitting in the spot where your child was last seen alive. I mean, it's just, it's horrific.

But early on in this trip, it basically seemed like Ellie's murder was an open secret. All of the locals suspected that the Mozambican officials either didn't investigate thoroughly or were covering up the truth to maintain tourism or were working with those who killed Ellie. She also made a impact on people while she was there, the short time that she was there. One of Paul's cab drivers had actually learned how to swim from Ellie during her short stay in Tofo.

which allowed him to get his first job working on a charter fishing boat. So that's just amazing. And what are the chances that he ends up being the cab driver that Paul's picked up by? I know. Reading that was also another thing that's in his investigation blog. And it really is just like, I mean, it speaks to Ellie as well. Just like the fact that she was so extroverted, so willing to connect with the people and the places she visited.

That there's just this random dude who she was like, I'm going to teach you how to fish. And then years later, only two years later, teach you how to swim. Yeah, that's crazy. I know. That's crazy. I know. That's like a really personal thing to open that up to a stranger. And then it allowed him to get his first job. That's just wow. Ellie seemed so awesome. Yeah. But he was still trying to find any piece of new information that could somehow push the AFP to file a MAR and actually investigate Ellie's death.

So he ended up placing a sign in the middle of town asking for any information regarding Ellie's death. And within just two days, he was informed by a local that they had evidence that Ellie's body had been moved from her original death position. This was huge. At this point, Paul had only heard the version that she was found in that downward prayer position.

And this local informant told Paul that he actually had a photo that a fisherman had taken of Ellie's body before police arrived at the scene. And he paid this informant five bucks for the photo. And there's also a clip of that in that same scene.

60 minutes, the 20 minutes, 60 minutes. But you can see the whole exchange happen where he pulls it up and his phone is like, oh, I can send you this. And it's just crazy how quickly he was able to access it. And he saw clear

as day that Ellie was lying face down in the dirt with her underwear pulled halfway down her legs. And we're looking at the picture right now. We're not going to insert it for you guys. It's it's pretty blurred out anyway. It's in the 60 minutes. If you do want to see it, you can you can find it. There's really not much to see. You can just kind of see like the out

It's blurry, blurry outline. But it's just upsetting. I didn't want to put it in that episode. We never want to do things like that. But I think I think their family wants people to see the photo to some degree. Just so you can clearly see how she was found. Right. And just to understand the gravity of it. And it really like paints a picture for you.

But yeah, he uncovered this evidence very, very quickly, this major evidence. So he visited the spot in the photo near the public toilet block and said, the first time I walked up and saw where Ellie's body had laid, imagine if you're a father and you've seen that photo and you knew your daughter's body was lying there. It was hard. It was really hard.

I cannot imagine. But Paul immediately informed the AFP and the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs that he had a crime scene photo before Ellie's body was repositioned. However, he was informed that the AFP and the ADFA had the photo since 2016 and did nothing about it.

Can you imagine that as a parent after finding that? I'd want to beat my head on the wall. It's crazy. Like, again, the people you've been petitioning for, all they're saying this whole time is like, yeah, we can't do anything about it. We don't have enough. We don't have enough. And then you show them the crime scene photo that shows clearly that her body is in a different position than what's being described by everyone else. And they just say to you,

oh yeah we've seen this photo yeah like you'd be so thinking oh I just found this piece they're finally gonna listen this is gonna be huge and they're like oh we know about that we have that and sorry we didn't mention it to you right oh my god which just continues to add more credibility to this is a cover-up yeah clearly there's no denying it why else would you not do anything if I had this photo yeah

And you know the things that you know. So Paul said the clear crime scene photo was the main critical piece of evidence I acquired on my first trip to TOFO. And it was just filed away by the coroner's court in 2016. Paul continued with his independent investigation after learning the AFP had this information from the jump and did absolutely nothing with it. He met two different witnesses who provided the same information. Quote, Ellie's body was in a different position leaning over, not laying down like in the clear photo from the fisherman.

and they described Ellie's position as being like in a Muslim prayer position, proving once again that at some point, Ellie's body was repositioned. After only a week in Tofo, Paul had learned more than the local authorities had in nearly two years, and they had still never seen the photo, even though the Australian Federal Police had, and they had never interviewed the locals, which is absolutely insane. It seems like the first thing you do in an investigation like this is go around and interview people

the people that live, work in this area where she was found by the beach that she was at a few hours prior to that, see if anybody could track her movements or knew who she was with. But none of that was done. At this point, Paul was not only convinced that the local TOFO police had completely botched the entire investigation, but they had become his number one suspect. ♪

At Bright Horizons, infants discover first steps, toddlers discover independence, and preschoolers discover bold ideas. Our dedicated teachers and discovery-driven curriculum nurture curiosity, inspire creativity, and build lasting confidence so your child is ready to take on the world.

Come visit one of our Bright Horizons centers in the greater Chicago area and see for yourself how we turn wonder into wisdom. Schedule your visit today at brighthorizons.com. This wasn't coming out of nowhere either. Aside from the locals saying that they were frightened of the police, there had been other instances with tourists and TOFO police officers. And in this next story...

blew my fucking mind when I heard it. I mean, this is scary stuff here. In 2010, Sarah Harikian was vacationing in Tofo when a strange man followed her from a bar onto the beach. The man then grabbed her, held a police baton to her back, and threatened to rape her. Sarah was able to get free and throw the baton before she struggled with the man, and luckily, the commotion caused other tourists to run to the scene and it scared the attacker off.

She then went to the police station with these other tourists that came to her aid and a local who had witnessed the assault in order to report the crime. However, she soon realized that one of the officers that was at the police station was in fact the man who had assaulted her on the beach. And when she pointed this out, the other police there threatened the group with AK-47s and said that they would file drug charges against Sarah if they didn't give them money right now. This whole situation...

says it all of this is the people that are supposed to be there to protect and serve and solve the crimes there. Don't think much crime is getting solved, unfortunately. They're extorting tourists and the extortion is a huge thing. Just if you look at

reviews from people that go to Mozambican and Tofo Beach specifically. I was reading through a travel blog. She's like, even at the little hotels and the restaurants, they'll overcharge you constantly. Like this is a major problem. You have to constantly look and check your bills and stuff. That's pretty common like all over the world. True, true. I mean, yeah, in most places. But I mean, to be straight extorted in the way

Where they're like, oh, you think you're coming here to get help? How about you pay us right now or we're going to basically throw your friend in jail for fraudulent charges. You know, it's just insane. Well, remember, God, this is such a tangent. That story of the guy who broke his back. Where was that? On the beach where they extorted him. Remember that? Oh, yeah.

That's the worst extortion story I've ever heard in my life. I can't remember the name. Yeah, it was a story that I covered on Lights Out. Oh, you covered it? Oh, right. Yeah, it's a Lights Out story. It's like a worst vacation story. Oh, it's horrible. Yeah, he... They wouldn't call the ambulance to the beach unless they paid. Yeah, long story short, he got injured in the ocean. I think a wave or something toppled him. He...

was basically paralyzed on the beach and the lifeguards wouldn't help him. Nobody would help him. Nobody would call for help.

Do you remember where it was? No, I don't. It's fine. I mean, if you want to go watch it's Vacation Disasters on Lights Out, but I have a whole episode that goes over a bunch of different ones. But he ended up finally, he was like on the beach in agony for hour plus. Finally, an ambulance shows up. They have to pay the ambulance. He finally goes to a hospital in Mexico and

They demanded like tons and tons of money up front. Was it Jared Hill and his partner, Justin? Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it was Mexico. Medical extortion. Yeah, they were extorted like tens of thousands of dollars at this hospital before they even were willing to help him. It was so awful. This was like doctors. He was laying there on the beach. They wouldn't even like...

Yeah, it's crazy. So just an average American ambulance style of health care. Yeah, not a bad point. Yeah, that is a good point. But at least in America, they'll charge you later. They'll charge you later. They'll give you all the help you need and at least save your life. This guy would have died.

And they were willing to let him die. He was just like lying on the beach. Had his partner not like ponied up the money with all of his credit cards and stuff to pay these bills, they weren't going to do the life-saving surgery he needed. They were going to let him just die on the beach. Yeah. It's a super fucked up story. Mm-hmm.

But yeah, to your point, this does happen all over the place. But luckily in Sarah's situation, the tourists that had come to her aid ended up having some cash and paid for her safety. But still, it just really proves that the police in this area are in fact involved in crime against tourists and locals alike. So.

Seems like there's rampant corruption going on, unfortunately. However, when Paul met with the Tofo police superintendent, she told him that the criminal investigation unit in the nearby city of Ijambanye had taken up Ellie's case. Paul met with Mr. Kudze, who was overseeing Ellie's case, and Mr. Kudze told Paul, quote, her body was moved after her death because the sand found in her body was loose, beach sand, whereas the ground where her body was found was packed with dirt, which we have

We talked about this a little bit earlier, but on top of that, the color was completely different and matched the beach sand instead of the dark dirt near the toilet block. And Paul also realized that this unit could not produce a suspect because they lacked resources and funding and they didn't even have a photocopier at the police station. And once again, Paul thought that this knowledge of the different sand would spur the AFP to conduct their investigation.

However, Mr. Kudzee informed Paul that he had already told the AFP about the sin in 2016, and still, they did nothing with it. Then later in 2018, Paul returned to Tofo with 60 Minutes Australia, where he explicitly stated that the police in Tofo staged Ellie's death to look more like a drug overdose after she had been murdered.

And after that episode aired, Paul received a tip from a woman on Facebook who had visited Tofo. And she said that a man named Tony ran the gang and drug trade in Tofo and hung out near Branco's Pizza Place. I think it's Branco's, possibly Bronco's. Possibly Bronco's. It's just, it's like...

B-R-A-N-C-O. So it's, I feel like it's, you know, it's just they're doing an Italian name, like a random Italian name for a pizza place. Yeah. And the woman stated that the locals not only warned her to stay away from Brankos, but they explicitly told her that Tony was behind Ellie's murder. Then in June of 2020, Paul was approached by a German private investigator and ex-neo-Nazi gang leader, mercenary, and government contractor,

Nick Greger. This guy is whack. I don't know how to describe him. Yeah, he's he's he's nuts. He's he's nuts. I it's crazy to see a lot of like just professional news coverage on the case. They'll be like, yeah, and you were able to get a private investigative Nick Greger onto it. But then when you look into Nick, he is he's just insane. He's got this thing called the Mad Nick Society.

And it's a it is a association, an organizational network of people from different countries who are committed to justice and act accordingly. According to the motto in silence, we serve freedom. He has been tapped by the IRA and several other just like random groups to to serve different. Yeah. You know, mercenary things. But we can't even confirm that he did any of that because he's always saying crap like.

Oh, I can't reveal it because it's classified by the government of origin. You know, he seems a little up his own ass, but for sure, the truth is he did have contacts in Mozambique from his work throughout Africa. So there is some nugget of truth to his insanity.

But he's also got like a crazy song that's written about him. That's like, Mad Nick, he fights for justice. Oh, he made it. He loves all races. Yeah, yeah. He's, yeah, dude. He loves all races, isn't there? Yeah, yeah. Because he's an ex-neo-Nazi. He's not a current neo-Nazi. He loves all, I think he's got an African wife too. Okay. Well, Nick, interesting. Yeah. So just, that's, this is all to say before we go into Nick's investigation that he's a,

He's got a very big personality. But at least he's willing to help. Exactly. To the extent we don't know, but it seems like at least somebody's willing to go out there and try to get some answers. Yeah, but I don't know. And put himself in some dangerous situations, I'm sure. I don't know. I have. Well, when you have no help from the authorities. Yeah, of course. I'll take a mercenary. Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. I would take anybody. Yeah.

If somebody is willing to be like, I'll go talk to these gang gang members and I'll try to figure out what's going on. Yeah. I'd be like, sure. Thank you. Yeah. No, I get what you mean. Like, fuck whatever his past is or whatever his. Right. Yeah. Who cares at that point? But if he's actually willing to do the work, then why not? Yeah. If it helps potentially solve this case or get justice, then I get it.

So Nick agreed that the tip seemed genuine and organized a sting operation in Tofo. And throughout his years as a mercenary, Nick had contacts with in Mozambique who interviewed sex workers to see if they could catch Tony admitting to the murder. And then this is just a clip of basically it's like Nick Greger explaining the sting operation. And then it's the actual audio recording that the sex worker got with Tony. We don't have any photos of Tony because he's not

been like officially charged with a crime so you know photos of him everywhere are blurred out yeah but that's allegedly what this audio clip is of is him speaking about killing people where I come from do what you want to do I'll show you who I am he's like no I can't call you no I can't say I'm only a good person I can't say that

Because I kill you. You know, but he basically admitted, like, this is what I do. I kill and I rob people. And again, it could just be a guy who's, you know, streetwise and he's just kind of, he's trying to impress the sex worker by being like, no, I'm so dangerous, da-da-da. Potentially, yeah. Right. I don't know, that sounded pretty honest. To me, too. Yeah.

I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little OCD. I like things neat. That's not OCD. I'm Howie Mandel, and I know this because I have OCD. Actual OCD causes relentless unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything, and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy.

Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NoCD. NoCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for OCD. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually, and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans.

If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15-minute call and learn more. That's nocd.com.

At Bright Horizons, infants discover first steps, toddlers discover independence, and preschoolers discover bold ideas. Our dedicated teachers and discovery-driven curriculum nurture curiosity, inspire creativity, and build lasting confidence so your child is ready to take on the world.

Come visit one of our Bright Horizons centers in the greater Chicago area and see for yourself how we turn wonder into wisdom. Schedule your visit today at brighthorizons.com. But Paul said that he and Nick are still attempting to build evidence against Tony. And they also have another suspect who has left Mozambique. However, he hasn't revealed anything else. So that's all we know as far as Nick's investigation goes.

In 2023, after Paul had built his independent case, which was dozens and dozens of pages of information, the Australian government finally opened an inquest into Ellie's death. They took oral statements from Paul, Jade, and Mozambican officials to determine whether the Australian federal police should file a MAR and work on the case themselves. That's all this guy, that's all Paul wants. Just file a MAR. All this work, all these years. Yeah.

Unfortunately, this inquest hinged on an additional autopsy performed in Melbourne that could not rule definitively that Ellie died due to homicide. So now we're going backwards now. Now it's like,

Well, we can definitively say that this is a homicide. This pathologist could not locate any sand inside Ellie's lungs, even though back in 2016, according to Dr. Klepp, she was, quote, chock-a-block with sand as if it had been packed into her throat and lungs. This pathologist also failed to locate a tampon that Dr. Klepp found in Ellie's body

And when she learned that the Melbourne pathologist hadn't found any sand in Ellie's throat or lungs, she said, quote, how could that be? I found plenty of sand. Because the findings couldn't definitively state that Ellie was murdered, nothing else was done by the Australian government. The Australian Federal Police released a statement saying, quote, we have made numerous offers of assistance to Mozambique authorities despite the fact that they have never filed a MAR. So they're just saying...

stuff publicly to be like, yeah, it's on them, but there's never been a MAR filed. Pass the buck. I also think that it's ridiculous that this inquest where we have dozens of hours of oral testimony from people, including Dr. Patricia Klepp, saying like, no, she was murdered, da-da-da. The fact that it all hinged on this new, this brand new autopsy performed years after the murder

years after her body was embalmed, that now says, oh no, no, I can't say it definitively. It's ridiculous. And again, she couldn't even find a tampon that Klepp found. The fact that you could miss that as a pathologist, it's like,

It's just, how is that even possible? Right, right. Yeah. It's honestly just so offensive that they even put that out there and then stuck to it. In 2018, Ellie's mom, Nicole, started a Change.org petition to hopefully get then-Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison to intervene. And despite over 67,000 signatures, nothing happened, which is the unfortunate reality of these petitions. We were just talking about that before recording. Like, we...

I'll still put petitions out there if they're there, especially if a family wants me to share them or feels like it's going to help. But I've become so discouraged. It seems like nothing ever happens with petitions. Do any of you out there know of or have an example of something actually being done after a petition? Maybe outside the true crime world, but we've done so many petitions over there. We've started them for families and we've never had success. It's so frustrating. I used to think it was a really great

tool and power to the people. And now I just, I'm like, God, 67 signatures. No one cares. Nothing's ever done. Like, what the fuck? It's so frustrating. You just feel completely helpless. But anyway, Paul still advocates for Ellie's case, often doing television interviews. I mean, he'll do any interview he gets the opportunity to. And he wears her ripped shirt in an attempt to show how violently she was murdered. And every time I

See him in that shirt, it's just... I cannot imagine the pain you must carry every single day.

And in an interview with Marie Claire magazine, Paul called Ellie his soulmate. That was really sweet. He also said that he takes a candle to Melbourne's Seaford Pier every year on her birthday and sends a happy birthday text to Ellie's number. And he actually said that in one of her diaries, she had written that she was happy she had gotten a message from him on her birthday. So he likes to do that every year, which I thought was really sweet.

Paul said that he will continue to agitate the Australian and Mozambican governments for answers. He said, I've done a lot, but Ellie would do the same for me. But it's not good enough still. He says the AFP just doesn't care. I mean, it's like too much of a diplomatic nightmare for them. And I think he is spot on with that. I think they absolutely just do not care. I don't understand what the Australian government has to lose here.

Is it is there some sort of like tourism pact between Mozambique and like wire? Why isn't Australia going full steam ahead at Mozambique trying to figure out what happened and make it probably for a variety of there's other Australians that are that travel there that probably live there and but again, I understand the geopolitical issue

of it's another country you can only do so much you can only ask to come in and investigate I get all of that yeah but why not at least submit this mar request that's what I don't get and why not disclose this information that supposedly had from the very beginning to the family especially if you're not going to do anything it just makes no sense it's like is it just a couple people drop the ball and then I don't know or is it just they were hoping to sweep it under the rug they hoped

This wouldn't blow up into a bigger thing. Yeah, that's always the hope for them, right? I do wonder, and this is just purely speculation. This is not really based on anything except for the research in the episode. I do wonder if there's this general perception of Mozambique and a lot of African countries from...

Western countries like Australia to where they're like, well, in order to do this mutual resistance assistance request, we are relying on their investigators as well to help us. And if there's this perception of them that these police officials, but also just people within the country are not competent or are or are engaged in unsavory things, then they're like corrupt or whatever. They're like, we don't we don't want to touch any of that. We don't want to touch any of that. Yeah, I think that's probably part of it, too. Yeah.

I think it really is just kind of this overarching Western perception of stereotyping, which, you know, in this case, like, yeah, the police are certainly corrupt. The Mozambican police are corrupt.

Fucking up like consistently, but also they are not given resources to investigate crimes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, in in Ihan Banya, like they don't have a photocopier. Right. Like even if they wanted to in Tofo, I think it's a separate issue. I think those police are like straight up gangsters. But, you know, Cernic, they're like top criminal investigation unit. Even if they wanted to investigate something as complicated as a murder case.

It's like they just aren't given enough resources to do it.

Right. And just get some names and info and sit some people down in an interrogation room and be like, who was she? Were you with her last night? And just question people. And just I think this is this is probably a very easy thing to solve. I think the the forensic part is definitely where they probably fall short in so many different ways with DNA testing and collecting and preserving evidence, things like that. That obviously didn't happen. But I think at the very least, this is a

a murder that could be solved the old-fashioned way without technology, without all this other stuff, just by getting up and knocking on some doors and talking to people. Maybe not be solved, but at least make progress. Yeah, at least get some suspects or some names and start putting the pressure on. It's a very difficult, layered issue. It's not something you can just sum up in an episode. It's so complicated, and there's so many reasons why

It's so horrible. I feel so bad for Ellie. She had such an amazing life ahead of her and was going to do so many more trips and sounds like great work and help more people, impact more people. And it's, you know, just beyond words, the pain that Paul has to carry the rest of his life and her whole family. Obviously, we haven't seen as much from Ellie.

the rest of the family because Paul's really been kind of the spokesperson and just it's devastating um thinking I don't know I really don't I hope that there's answers one day it feels very hopeless um and I hate I hate saying that there's always a chance right um but this it just seems like it was fucked up beyond um in the initial stages and

I think there's still no cooperation now or urgency or I just don't. I don't know. It's horrible. It's horrible. I wouldn't wish this on any family. Well, Paul said something else that really struck me as being very true in any place that you live when it comes to being a victim of crime. And it's you can't just sit there.

and hope and expect and wish that the authorities are going to do things the right way and that they're going to thoroughly investigate your loved one's murder because that's just simply not not the case in so many so many different examples i mean he's like you gotta literally go do this yourself you gotta go investigate yourself you gotta travel to where this happened yourself you've just got to do it all yourself and he kicks himself for not going sooner

when this happened, he wishes he would have gotten there like within a couple days as opposed to a little bit later on because he feels like there was time that critical time that passed when he thought the authorities were doing their job and they weren't. And that's just what you think and you shouldn't as a family member even have to those thoughts don't cross your mind because you're still just trying to process what just happened and start beginning to grieve and you know, that's the last thing in your mind. You just assume and you know, that's

no matter where a crime occurs, those are your thoughts immediately. And we've talked to so many families just in person where they told us we would have done things so differently if we knew how bad the police were going to drop the ball. We didn't think it was going to be on us. We just trusted that we could do what we need to do as a family to mourn, to deal with this loss, and that the police are going to do what they need to do to solve this murder. And

It's sadly something people don't realize until, you know, you're in it and it's too late. And a lot of people don't have, you know, the knowledge from maybe a lot of people aren't, you know, true crime consumers and aren't seeing like just how bad it is where you just have this overall trust with law enforcement. Yeah.

And that's the sad reality that many people have to feel and then deal with this guilt where they shouldn't have to feel that way. Right. You should have the authorities and law enforcement coming to you being like, we tried everything.

That's how it should be in a perfect world. And again, this does happen from time to time. It's not all the time that they fail. Oh, of course. Yeah, no. A lot of times they get it right. They do do everything they can. And there's great, great law enforcement people out there. We don't often cover those cases because they don't need that. We don't cover those cases, right. Yeah. Because they did a good job. But we often cover cases where help is still needed. One of the primary reasons the case is unsolved is because law enforcement was incompetent or dropped the ball in some way, shape, or form. Right.

It's just, I think it's a good thing. Yeah. It's a good thing to keep in mind. You got to be extremely careful when you travel outside of your country. You know, that's why they recommend like registering with the, uh, uh, U S ambassadors, uh, officer and things like that. And just being aware, being aware of, uh, travel advisories, traveling with traveling alone is a lot riskier. And,

And again, even then, it still doesn't negate the inherent danger that's there. But I think. And again, we're not Josh isn't saying that to put any blame on Ellie. I mean, there's there's no blame to be put on. No, absolutely not. Something to keep in mind and learn. Yeah, it's just it's a real just a real thing that at least that's what comes to my mind as I walk away from this case. Like there's lots of things to think of and.

Um, like since we started, you know, covering true crime over the years, the way we travel is completely changed and like the precautions we take, like back, like when we went to Thailand and Australia long time ago, we weren't as, I think, as cautious or as, um, I don't just as aware of what, you know, what dangers could, could lie ahead. And we've just learned by covering all of these cases, but yeah, it happens everywhere. It could happen at home.

Sorry, I feel like I'm being like so down, so negative, right? I just feel. No, there's nothing good that comes from this at all. It's infuriating. It's so sad. It's hard to come to these cases sometimes. But yeah, we definitely send our best to Paul and, you know, the whole Warren family because this is the absolute worst case scenario that could possibly happen. And all we can do is hope. Yeah, hold on to hope. Yep. Even in situations that feel hopeless.

But we definitely want to hear from you guys. What do you think on the case as a whole? Yeah, but that's going to be it for us this week. We will be back next week. And until then, keep on taking your mind a mile higher.

At Bright Horizons, infants discover first steps, toddlers discover independence, and preschoolers discover bold ideas. Our dedicated teachers and discovery-driven curriculum nurture curiosity, inspire creativity, and build lasting confidence so your child is ready to take on the world.

Come visit one of our Bright Horizons centers in the greater Chicago area and see for yourself how we turn wonder into wisdom. Schedule your visit today at brighthorizons.com. Hundreds of thousands of people are struggling with substance use disorder in Illinois, and they need someone to help guide them toward recovery.

Certified alcohol and drug counselors have the skills to help people reclaim their lives. Financial resources are available to help you become certified. Find your why at ilcadcworkforce.org and join other compassionate professionals making a difference. Visit the Illinois Certification Board website today.

At Bright Horizons, infants discover first steps, toddlers discover independence, and preschoolers discover bold ideas. Our dedicated teachers and discovery-driven curriculum nurture curiosity, inspire creativity, and build lasting confidence so your child is ready to take on the world.

Come visit one of our Bright Horizons centers in the greater Chicago area and see for yourself how we turn wonder into wisdom. Schedule your visit today at brighthorizons.com.