#734 - Dean Phillips - Just How Broken Is American Politics?
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Hello, friends, welcome back to the show. I guess today is deemed phillips is a member of the U. S. House of representatives, a presidential candidate and the former owner of talented geeta and belva of oda. Whether its stories in the press or scenes in house of cards, no one seems to have much faith in the american political system at the moment. Dean has had a front row seat to this world very long time and is now running for president, so he should be able to give some insight just how bad it's become.

Expect to learn whether congress, all the business world has more back stabbing in IT, the perverse incentives of donors and funding, deans background building, belva of vodka, whether politicians are smarter than the average person, what deeds predictions for twenty twenty four are. And much more honestly, it's quite rare to kind of get this level of insight and transparency around what's going on inside of the U. S.

Congress and the house of representatives. And regardless of whether not you want deem phillips to get the democratic nomination ation for the twenty twenty four election or you hate amErica overall or whatever, is very interesting to see just how the incentives are aligned and just what the internal culture of american politics are, for Better or for worse, what happens in amErica ends up casady down to the rest of the world. So is prety interesting to to work out what's going on this episode or is brought to you by all state?

Some people just know they could save hundreds of car insurance by checking all date first, like, you know, to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your twenty of wedding anniversary and have to spend the next twenty years of your marriage making up for IT. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check all state first, first quote that could save you hundreds. You're good with all state savings. Very terms apply all state fire and casualty insurance company annihilate north a oy but now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome dean phillips.

Did you found bevy of oka?

I did not found below bocca, but I help find about to. In fact, we had a wonderful experience back in nineteen and ninety three. Chris, I was, uh, twenty four years old. I had recently joined our family business after working for a start up company in the bicycle for a couple years. We are my grandmother who was the advice column.

Darby introduced my father, edi phillips and me to amending ted daughter who was a poll, a polish uh, gentlemen who had a proposition, uh, reluctant to the vocal business so we thought we could sell our phillip's pepper erman snap which we made in minnesota uh to the polish market and we went on a trip to poll in one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. My father, Steve gille are is a partner ted daughter. Uh, we thought we could sell some snows.

What IT turned into is the discovery essentially, uh, of what we thought was the most beautiful packaging we've ever seen in the world and the most disruptive idea that the biggest category and spirit had ever seen. And that was returned into both belva and show pan backup and IT was that trip that changed our strategy. We negotiated with the polish government to obtain the distribution rights some years later, purchased the intellectual property and the stiller's and created the world's first luxury about a brand. And by the way, took on two big brands, absolute solutions. Ia, that is a little bit of a metaphor for i'm doing .

right now what was disruptive about IT.

What was disruptive, Chris? First and foremost, in a lot of industries, especially developed industries, you'll have a couple of really big brands, uh, that essentially command most of the market. And they spend all their time kind of fighting each other to the bottom and Price attacking each other.

By the way. The analogy, of course, is democrats and republicans here in the united states. And what was disruptive is that we went into a category in which the most expensive voc at that time was about fifteen dollars a bottle.

And we came in at twenty five dollars bottle. We came in with a cork finish. We came in with a very different proposition predicated on authenticity.

But here is the special sauce. We recognized that this isn't the analogue r, by the way, Christian, well before social media and the internet and like, and people. But people are aspirational. No, people want to always live Better, do Better, be more happy, have more stuff.

And what we recognized is, you know, people couldn't buy the same house as the biggest celebrities of the day, or to have the same car or watch or dresses, but they could buy the same bottle lavaca for twenty five dollars that the most famous person in the world was drinking with his or her friends. And there was the disruptive nature of this whole thing. The luxury voca category was created IT endured for over a decade now been replaced by tequila, of course. But IT was the brand belt er that really redefined luxury that the marketing and recognize that it's a fashion industry just like so many others.

What is the competitive relationship of what was IT between beveland great goose? Because if I was to show my mom two bottles of oka, SHE might even think that IT was two different versions, perhaps from the same company. This is one time, this is another.

My background is in nigh life. So I run nightclubs for a decade in a off a million, a million entries across my my career. So i'm intimately familiar with vodka, with spirits, with working in bars and clubs.

But talk to me about that, the competitive landscape. You guys come first. You've got this sort of frosted finish on the box.

It's very distinctive. What what does? great. Go to grey, see that and then try and copy what's story.

So case you're get, here's another untold story. What most people don't know is that when we launched belt or bocca, we also launched another brand, brand called rowed R O H O L, which means motoring oil. In german, IT came in a little black drum like, looked like an oil.

And we introduced that to take on eager minister. We thought eger minister could use a disruptive friend, and at the same time we introduced royal. In the very beginning case, we got a lot more interest and excitement and orders for road then we did for belt here. And we were really excited about IT.

Well, sydney Frank, who was the now deceased owner of yager minister, I don't think he was very pleased seeing his baby being taken on so he that he would go after us as as the story goes, and came out with a voca that looked exactly the same as belt here. So we suit and we won. But here's the lesson learned.

We were able to have our graphic design team redesign the greece bottle. And let me tell you, the lesson is, never ask a graphic design agency to redesign something to make IT look worse. Because IT doesn't happen.

They made IT look Better. And we essentially settled and they redesigned great goose that look Better than ever. But i'll tell you, I give sydney Frank credit because what he recognized, crisis.

We thought the belt are vocat category without luxury. Voca might be a nice market, you know, not a huge one. So we marketed IT with a very, very small aperture ure in sydney.

Frank, he came out with a huge Operator advertise in USA today, big displays on the floor, big retailers. And he did a Better job of recognizing, uh, the size of the market. And we didn't.

So greg s outperformed belt ter. Eventually, we sold the brand to L V. H, did very well, of course, but said knew Frank did even Better when he sold his brand to bacari.

And like anything else in life, you win some, you'll lose some. You, you learn lessons. And next time you do Better.

this feels like a vari lambkin I battle between between two sort of premium brands.

Yeah, you can say, you could say so, you could say so, you could say so. And a great story. And and the other untold story about belt is a the fact that J Z had a lot to do with its early success.

IT didn't do that well in the beginning. And I was getting ready one morning, and probably one thousand ninety six, one thousand ninety seven. And I have mtv on and loan.

Behold, Chris, I see a music video, J, Z, video, where he's pouring belt, dear, are all over the place. He opens a refrigerator, is filled with belly or vaca. I call my dad the analog here.

And my dad turned on mtv. He didn't know a channel that was. So we waited. We got to the office that day and the whole company sand around the TV, waiting for mtv to replay the video. And when we saw, we knew the brand was changed forever.

And one behold, Chris, we got orders that may be tripled within a couple weeks from all around the country. And J Z in my dad and the having dinner, uh, probably a year later, J Z introduce his own voca called army dail. I don't think anybody remembers because he saw the opportunity to do for his own brand what he did for us. And that's the story of belt. People don't really know IT .

talk to me about the principles that he Carried over from that into the ice cream company .

yeah so the same notion of disruption. What we like is to look at a category that has two big brands that are not particularly special that dominate the category in half for a long time. And when we looked at ice cream, you had ben and Jerry and haggas on by big multination. Your food companies essentially doing the same thing that stole an absolute not a lot of innovation, a lot of confrontation, a lot of focus on Price verses value uh or or quality or innovation and we recognized there's a grand opportunity. Um the founder of tAllents was a Young guy named josh hawk ruler who became our partner.

And the beautiful part of that story is because he had so little he had a gelato shop that was not doing well, and dallas, texas, got an order to package the giladi and containers for the local grocery store, but he could not afford to actually print like a nice ice cream pint that you see all over the world. So we had to go to a, uh, basically a surplus store. And he found on close out a bunch of clear plastic jars that he could just put a label on was the only way he could do IT.

And that is the beauty of planty galada. IT was transparent. IT was in a redefining package just like belva, and we did the same thing. We Priced IT just a little bit higher, more luxurious, and we elevated a category that was still an affordable luxury.

So you could drink, you can drink the finest back in the world for twenty five dollars, and you could enjoy the finest giladi made on earth for only five dollars a pint. And it's the same notion, affordable luxury, branded very, very well. And we sold IT to unlimber seven years later.

What did you learn from the L. V, H, and you leave in negotiations. I've had a number friends that have exited companies to one of them to to unbeliever and a bunch of others to equally large a negotiating the competent companies. What were the lessons that you took that you took away from that?

I will tell you without diving too deeply into the details, let me just tell you that I think you in a liver is more principled. A corporation uh that I think stands more by their word and um a company of great character uh that does a lot of good for the world. Uh I think I could not say quite as kind of things about L V H and that transaction, and I will just leave IT at that.

I understand. And then there's a really interesting principle from a Chris voices never split the difference. Well, he talks about in in negotiation. You can get yourself to the stage where you get absolutely everything that you want. But if it's so aggressive that the other party feels like they've been bent over a calls, there is a it's almost it's not quite a pyi c Victory. But there is a loss in the Victory to some degree because you know, unless you don't care about the way that you leave the world after you leave IT, you have sort of fundamentally, it's become A A zero some game or even less than a zero some game.

So ture, i'm glad to say, in fact, I had a great grandfather, Chris j. Phillips, who emigrated from what was then ballot. Well then the russian empire mins came to the us.

As just a little boy at age eight years old started selling uh, newspapers on the street corner outside of mowcher washen eventually moved to minnesota and entered the spirits business right after prohibition uh and became one of the biggest distributor's of spirits in the country. And of course, the company that ultimately introduced belt with your voca. He told me three things when I was a Young man and he said, dean, money is like manure.

If you stack IT up, IT stinks, and if you spread IT out IT fertilizes. He said, business as a means to an end in the end is not aggregating as much wealth as humanly possible. The joy business is to share IT with as many people as possible in the communities that make the business successful.

And he also said, dean, you always have to leave a little something on the table for the next guy, which was his way of saying in a negotiation, you know what is actually the mench? It's actually the strong person that leaves a little bit more, uh, even when you're in a position of strength, which, by the way, have seen the same dynamic player in congress a number of times, but those are the his lessons. And the same is true, I think in business negotiations, no, it's not just about the capital, not just about the money, about how people are treated afterwards, your employees, how the communities in which you've done business are treated.

I I wish more entrepreneurs would be mindful um of how their exits sometimes impact families and communities in ways that they didn't anticipate. And I wish more deals were structured to guarantee a little bit more left over for a lot of people who work really hard to create success and are not really thought about at the end. And we've done, I think, a very nice job in our businesses to make sure those who make IT possible share.

And I that's kind of part of my notion in congress and um about government now too you know how do we ensure that everybody has a foundation from which they can pursue their dreams? And right now, I don't think the united states in particular is doing a good job. And I think too many companies a reward the very top of their management team and do not express the same consideration and empathy towards those in the bottom end of their so economic scale.

okay. So you pivoted from the mucking miro of business into the mucky or myriad den world of politics, which ones more .

cult throp other? No, congress is more cutthroat. It's because the rules of engagement are a amorphous, uh, friendships are not legitimate. Their transaction. Al and IT is a strAngely talk about zero, some game of the spirit of collaboration, of of a culture of debate, deliberation, of learning, of discovery. You know, the basics of doing Better in one's life, whether it's business or any kind of pursuit, are almost totally absent.

IT is almost an exclusively crisis, a culture of self preserve, people who wish to simply be a part of the club and to stay a part of the club and do what IT takes to remain a member of the club. And as the only one, you know, there are five hundred and thirty five members of the united states senate and house, and the only one that doesn't take any pack money with this political action committee, money, which is money from special interest groups, corporate or union. I don't take any money from them.

I don't take any lobby st. money. I don't give money to fellow members of the U. S. Congress or accept theirs. And I don't have what is called a leadership pet, which is a basically a slush fund that american politicians can use IT their own disposal, which makes me the only one out of five hundred and thirty five people that doesn't play that game.

I was the vice chair of the problem solves caucus, intending to get together with my republican friends and talk, build trust, gets to know each other because leaders on both sides of the IO don't do that. I serve on the modernization committee in the last congress, trying to fix the social organization and physical design flaws of congress. And then last congress, I was elected to a leadership position by my peers, hoping that I could really affect change.

But as long as the culture attracts people who are almost exclusively government service folks that don't have a lot of private sector experience and as long as the culture reward silence and staying in line, uh and obedience cy, it's going to be the same disaster for the united states. And Frankly, I think for the world, as long as we populated with people that beholds in flat system, that's when reading them running for president to expose the truth, uh, provide a little bit of common sense and component y to a place. And at the time we really need IT.

it's becoming more and more like house of cards. Every sentence that you say, it's weird, right? Because you know, as a model outside of the system, we see the rumors and the accusations and and and the the gossip and stuff that creeps out. And then we see the dramatization, no shows like house of cards, west wing or whatever and veep veep which i'm under the nutty who originally did uh, defect of IT, which is where that came from the british equivalent, which is for not is my favorite comedy of all time that both of those actually play off the back of it's the some game's ship and the sum corruption.

But the the main joke behind both whip and the thick of IT is an attitude, is that the people who are in such it's idiot all the way up, the people who are in charge are not only no smarter than you average person watching this, but perhaps actually a little bit more stupid and an awful lot more shelter. What is the average leader as smart? Is the average watcher in your opinion.

Curse you are going to give me a trouble um let let me tell you the oldest joke congress. And I felt IT the first day i'm elected. I'm sitting on the house floor.

I'm looking up at this massive eagle in the ceiling of the united states. Tester representatives in the literally the temple of democracy is recognized by the whole world. And it's the evening and its dark.

And with all my new colleagues, and I look around, and I think to myself, Chris, how did I get here? How in the world did I get here? And then about a week later, i'm sitting in the same room, all places filled with democrats or republicans from all over the country. I'm looking around and I think, how did they get here?

So to your .

point, that's an old joke in washington and look at, I don't there are some wonderful, smart, uh, remarkable people in washington. Uh, both democrats and republicans. Are they the majority? No, absolutely not. And I think part of the problem is we are now in a in the era, not just in the united states, but where public service and politics are attracting the people who are there for reasons that are much more personal than they are out of principle and and because of the culture of condemnation and entertainment and a constant fund raising IT doesn't attract the kind of people of competency, of life experience, of professional experience that should be populating at least to some degree uh our institutions of uh of government so the answer is I think that's a big part of the problem and one of my Mandate and personal missions is to reintroduce the notion of public service to the Younger generation that have great ideas that right now don't even consider IT. And I think that's a big part of the problem. If we only hand the keys to people who have their own personal agenda uh or the uh interest is in ten year and preservation of power, um we're going to be poorly served as we have been in recent years. And that's something we've to change fast.

I read something that said it's recommended when people join congress that they spend twenty five hours a week on fundraising calls. And if you are what you do, we're primarily sending fund raises to D. C.

And if you include flights and travel, it's perfectly likely that you'll basically have no time to actually get anything done. So how much do you do that work and how much do you do that's fluff? How much game's is occurring in how much actual graph gets to ris?

I'm getting in good trouble by saying the quiet part out loud and here's the quiet part. Members of congress are spending ten thousand hours per week raising money. You you just said the number twenty five hours times over five hundred people do the math, ten thousand hours per week collectively.

In fact, I wrote a bill um that is pending that would preclude fundraising in washington from breakfast to dinner time because all my colleagues are constantly raising money. I told you earlier, i'm one of five hundred and thirty five that does IT differently, which means it's hard for me to find a friend, have dinner with on a wednesday night because they're all at funded raisers. And even during the day at committee hearings and educational opportunities and constituent visits, people are not around because they across the street, either dialing for dollars or raising money from packs or lobbies or at a law firm or something.

It's sickening, but it's legalized. And here's the the biggest issue of grits. If I get to say the biggest issue is this, yes, the money corrupts because if you are getting paid by somebody, even if it's gone into your campaign covered, if you're getting money from somebody, they're generally doing IT because they want something in return, they want influence, they want access, they want you to vote a certain way.

Of course, we're not stupid. The biggest issue is this though, when you only congregate with the wealthy and wealth connected, even if you don't mean to, but the system requires that you do, all you're hearing about is their problems, which tend to be issues that are the last things on the mind of struggling people all around the world. So we have a system right now that forces everyone to spend their time with the wealthy and wealth connected democrats and republicans.

And that's why we have trumps m in america, because hundred and fifty million americans are saying, you know what? My member of congress never listens to me. They never show up in my neighborhood.

They've never called me to ask me for anything. I don't know how to reach them. I'm unheard. My issues don't matter. I can barely afford my life.

And all you all are sitting in washington having state dinners, getting your money and acting like morons. That's what people think. And that's when trying to do this differently.

Chris, is the fact that our system is forcing people to behave in a way that is destructive to democracy. And all we have to do is change the reward system, and we empower voters, and this empower the wealthy. Well connected in washington is not rocket science, and I know how to do IT.

It's why the richmond north of richman song, I think, caught fire exactly .

exactly. He was speaking for tens of millions of frustrated people. And i'm hearing IT every day. I get IT. I don't know, you know my story, you know.

But Chris, I was I lost my dad in vietnam when I was just six months old. He had no money, uh, which is why he earned an rtc scholarship to get his education and then went to vietnam n and lost his life. I was six months old.

My mom was twenty four in the window. We lived at my great grandparents and same poe, minnesota until I was three years old. Uh, and then I was adopted.

I got really lucky. I got adopted into an amazing family with all kinds of blessings and privileges and love. You know, very few kids who lost their dads in vietnam got lucky, like I did.

Very few kids who lost their moms are dad in afghanistan, iraq got lucky, like I did. And i'm realizing right now that we have to recognize our good fortune. Every one of us who has succeeded had somebody that believed in us, somebody that gave us a hand, somebody that recognize something in us.

This notion that only doing IT alone is the american dream is nonsense. Co, and I think what we're seeing right now is a real erosion of a belief that things are possible in america, around the world if people work hard because the system is stack to support the wealthy and the wealth nexi. I know IT having lived on both sides of IT.

it's like i've got IT in my head, but it's kind of like A A state driven panzi scheme. So IT constantly needs more favours to be bestowed from the bottom to pay the favours at the top. And no one really except for the fact that in a ponzi scheme, the people at the bottom at all of the people, except for the people at the top, no, are unaware of the fact that it's going on.

Where is this? It's a cartel. It's a cartel of people permanently cycling through a variety of things.

And everyone is that seems what you're saying is true. Everybody is on board with just don't stop the music from playing. We just need to keep the status go going.

That's and that's what happens. And they do apply and they do offer both participants wish to protect the status quote because they know how to manage IT. They are custom to IT, they know the game and they don't want competition.

And whether its coconut psy with rebel, whether IT was Benjamin with talented, whether IT was absolute to nia with belva, when you disrupt the category, they come at you hard, man, and they're coming at me hard. They don't want the quiet part set aloud. They don't want the truth to be told.

And they don't want the fact that this is corrupt to be exposed, even if it's legal, because they're trying to protect IT. And I have faith, I have faith that if you tell the truth and let people know what's really going on, that they'll take notice. And what you just said is absolutely true.

I don't want to in pune, all the people, because the fact is this system requires this behavior for you to stay alive. I I made the decision to torpedo my career in the united states congress after three terms. I knew by making this decision that I could probably never come back.

And that's unique because there are very few who are willing to give up their careers to do the right thing. And then what makes me a little, what did I do? Wo I? I resigned my house leadership position, and I decided i'm going to run for president to the united states against a sitting in combat president, which is rarely done.

But this is not a Normal time. This is not a Normal election, the opponent is not a Normal human being, and our current likely nominee is an una lector human being. But I tell you, the party does not like that.

I'm getting out a line that i'm not waiting my turn, that I am not abiding by those unspoken rules of what you do or don't do with an a combat president. And I recognized if I did this, I would be spending every ounce of political capital that I earned. And I were tired to earn IT over my three terms. But I recognized that if I didn't do this now, I wouldn't be meeting the moment and its not about twenty twenty eight or twenty thirty two or about a lifetime aspiration to become president about doing this right now because IT is existential and Donald trump in my estimation is an existential threat to the united states of amErica and to the rest of the world, period.

Do people not say that before his last time?

Sure they did. In fact, a lot of my colleagues, my republican colleagues, said the same thing quietly. And then they get in front of the cameras at nicky is and say something totally different.

And lone behold, little did I know that that disease was contagious, because suddenly on my side of the isle, democrats were having the same conversations about joe biden. He is not electable. Bynner ics is ridiculous.

His approval numbers are horrifically, though he's not going to win the battle ground states vice president Harris is even in worse shape as IT relates to her approval numbers. But then they get in front of the cameras and is a totally different story. And we wonder why americans have lost faith in their government, because they know.

And when two hundred and sixty or so democrats serve in the U. S. House and senate, and we see data that says over fifty percent of democrats want a different nominee, eighty three percent of democrats under thirty want a different nome, but only one person in the whole congress out of two sixty, is willing to say IT out love publicly.

That's me. You can imagine there's something wrong. There's something really, really wrong.

What do you think happens in twelve months time if there's no change for me here? Who who do you think becomes president? If nothing else changes.

I think I will ultimately become the democratic nominee. It's onna take time. Many people right now don't see that path. I certainly do. I think I may of junior a june of next year, we'll see head to head polls that will show me ahead of Donald trump. I'm a former business man in the a board chair of health system region to the university and the chair of the board of a charity.

Philanthropy serve three terms in the house of former democratic leader and the ranking member of the middle sub committee and foregone affairs and the vice ranking member of the small business committee have done a lot of experience, I think I will be able to put together to the coal issue. You need to win in amErica by writing Donald mp supporters who deserve in our worthy of invitation, not condemnation. I will be ahead of Donald mp.

Joe biden is almost certainly, certainly going to be behind them even further. And then democrats will have a choice at the convention. Do we elevate a candidate who is likely to win? Or do we literally choose the candidate that the data is saying is likely to lose? That's a pretty clear choice.

And I think it's one that democrats will do well in because I think they're choose me. And by the way, cripp, some other candidate appears, enters the primary and has approvals or polls that are even Better as a related to Donald d trump. Then I should get behind that person.

That's the whole point of democracy, is let people decide who is best position to win. But in the united states, we are not a culture that is supposed to endorse and tolerate coronations. But that's exactly exactly what this country is doing right now despite the fact that IT literally secured its independence from that very system .

of coronation yeah of every four years cycle of a heroditus us. Why who is in gets passed on again and that goes down. What in your estimation if it's a biden trump had to head come twenty twenty four while the outcome.

oh, almost if I had to put all my money, if you had this, if you said, dan, you have to take every dollar in assets you have and put IT on just one or the other based time.

What I think is gonna en, sadly, i'd to put IT all on trump, every single bit of data, every single bit, Chris, his approval numbers, the intuition when you speak with voters in our country, the intuition that job in is nonetheless, zy not Better off than he was four years ago. He is so much worse off. Uh, the the the polling data in the battleground states, in the national numbers, you know, all of the points to the same thing.

And by the way, the world, if IT is today, there was a poll that was just released today that shows that voters in the united states between eighteen and twenty nine years old favor downal trumpet by six points, that that is a classroom c change for democrats. And that is why my proposition is we got to wake up before we sleep up into a unmitigated disaster. So that's the way things are going.

But that's why running is because we need an alternative, need a change to a new generation. I'd be the first gens president in american history. You know, joe biden was born before the advent of television, before the advent of television. How in the heck can hear Donald trump address the issues of A I, for goodness sakes, everybody, you know, what have you?

What have you learned observing R, F, K juniors trajectory over the last few months?

I have to say, generally speaking, I admire how he conducted themselves. He's appealing to people using non traditional platforms, which by the way, you can imagine the minute I declare my canada c uh, and was no longer part of the establishment and I get stone world from a lot of the core of the major media platforms, msm c and some of the others. I think r fk junior suffered the same thing.

He saw the writing on the wall. So he started going to where people are, which is exactly what i'm doing. I'm doing that with you right now, for example.

Uh, i've think his videos, the way he expresses themselves, the way he presents information, i'd say eighty percent of what he says sounds pretty done reasonable to me. Now there are a couple things twenty percent of body says is pretty. I am unreasonable to me.

I have to say, uh, we see science a little bit differently, we see, uh, health and medicine a little bit differently, and we certainly see vaccination a little bit differently. But I do believe he should be heard. I believe there's a place in space for people like rfa, american, Williamson and others to be hurt.

I just wish they were running in the democratic primary so that we can all make our cases within this constructive, you will, that allows democrats to choose the persons best position to win. Because when you run as a third party candidate case in the U. S, T.

IT has the tendency to draw votes from the person you actually are trying to, you would rather see win. And since we don't have rank choice voting yet in the united states, that can be very dangerous. But I think, I think r fk is appealing to a lot of people for a good reason.

People are sick, tired of the nonsense. They're sick and tired of the corruption. They want someone to tell the truth.

And of course, he's got to an extraordinary political name. But I also have to point out the other obviously, to Chris. You've got joe biden has been do this for fifty years.

You've got before that you had the clinton, Hillary and bill clinton. Then you had the bushes. Now you've got the trunk family right and and the Kennedy family is back. You know, I think it's time for a little bit something new um not a political dynasty persae, not a coronation but it's time for america, I think, to move to a new chapter and that's why I wish there were more candidates who are come coming from the outside that are not part of that political industrial complex which do I think is why Donald trump's so well he appealed to people who who saw him as a little bit of a massa, if you will, as an outsider. And I have that ability kind of build the bridge of both. I came from the outside of a business person and i'm taken on an establishment in the structure that is that they're defending almost at all costs from the truth, you know, from us telling the truth and that respect Kennedy and I and some others, I think, are going to expose what people should really know more about. And it's not pretty just how by .

vocative is the current system inside of congress? How hard is IT to talk across the isle?

Why i'm unique uh, out of five hundred and thirty five members of congress and fifty U. S. Governors and ranked number two, most by partisan.

I'm a progressed my hearts of progressive who's number one a susie lee, my friend, democratic friend from nava. I gave a hard time on the house floor the other days it's susie, totally room, my old deal. Number one, last congress.

No one, number two, but like AV is currently i'm number two, but I try hard. So that's how I I do with the old fashion way. Chris man and I know I break bread d with people like grab ba beer. I get to know them. My dear ist friends and congress are both democrats and republicans.

My wife, finally, and I we'd be friendly, wonderful couple by hosting them at our house for dinner, getting to know each other, spending time with each other, other's families, because you can't work with people you don't trust, and you can trust people you don't know. And when you've got in the case of Nancy polo, sy and Kevin mcArthur instead of them pushing members of congress together, when I joined the, uh, congress in twenty nineteen, they did just the opposite, you know, they put us on separate buses going to separate events. They didn't get us to tell each other our live stories.

They didn't give us much education. They wanted to consumed with fund raising because they didn't want the power structure chAllenged. So I had to do IT differently, and that's what I been doing.

And as president, I should tell you the most important, when i'm president, i'm going to do IT fundamental tally different. I'm going to have a team of rivals in the White house. I want democrats and republicans on my cabinet. I want extraordinary, the very best and brightest americans running the agencies who are competent managers, who've run multi billion dollar enterprises before, who focus on customer service, who can deliver Better value at lower costs. I am going to a have a youth cabinet of, uh, high school or college student from every state in the country, fifty total, sharing ideas on policy with me in the White house.

I'm going to have common ground dinners in the White house where we have democratic and republican americans from around the country having dinner with their president in a casual setting, getting to talk to him, in this case, sharing what's important. No, not just black tie affairs with celebrities and heads of state. no.

IT is the old school notion of people with people in an error, where everything we're doing increases behind screens. A lot of IT valuable, but it's also destroying the very fabric of what the world is gna need much more of as we move forward, which is relationships between the U. S.

In china, between fellow americans, you know, between britz and americans. And if we don't build relationships by breaking bread and looking each other in the eyes, ah IT doesn't matter what the future holds in terms of technology or wealth, it's going to destroy humankind. And that's just the truth.

IT seems from the outside looking in to the political sphere and also to the cultural sphere of looking at the left. There is a huge amount of purity ism, a massive purities spiral, where any dissenting voice is treated with a unique kind of scepticism. absolutely.

How would I just looking at that from the outside? What what do you wish that the left stopped doing so much? Why is that purity spiral so rampant? And how can you maintain any in group favoritism without being totally at the mercy of ideology?

At one I answer question very directly. I I think those on the furthers left who believe that they believe in an inclusion are actually practicing the very worst form of exclusion. And that's as IT relates to debate and conversation. You know, the only in business the same grandfather I told about my great grandfather, used to say, if two people in a business I was agree, you only need one of them. And his message was, surround yourself with people who have different opinions, who who have different life experiences and have different ideas.

And when you solicit them, don't just solicit them from the management class, go into the, gone to the production department, talk to the sales reps, right? This notion of discovery, the beautiful part of being a human being, is learning, you know, what a blessing to be you, where you get to listen to fascinating people, provoke you all the time. A, what a cool thing.

So why would we, as human beings, wish to deny ourselves of the very opportunity to learn from another human being? Doesn't I? I don't .

disagree. But IT has become almost the signature ure of the left now to not listen to dissenting opinions, to take a minority opinion and allow that to terrorize everybody, including the people that aren't even a part of that party. Is that something that can even be fixed? You thinking about that?

Yes, that's why I run to look at that great. I want to I don't want to say a last dish effort because I hope this is the beginning of some fundamental change and a lot of issues as a relates to my party and my family, if you will.

And that's one of my my missions is to restore those conversations, restore the public square, restore debate, not stifle, not shame someone for look at if someone express is a hateful point of view that puts another human being at risk. I think that is that I do dry the line there. And I do think there are some bigots and some usages us, and some racist and anti sets and islam folks out there that will, that are terribly hurtful to other human beings.

And I do. I take exception to, and I have animists towards them. But as IT relates to political perspective, as IT relates to policy propositions, as IT relates to differences of opinion, we should be, for democrats, should be Fostering those spaces in places not shutting IT down.

And yes, IT is salvagable, but IT takes leadership. President biden is not creating that space in place. I want americans to see, I want a model by the president about how you actually engage different opinions.

That's why i'm going to have a cabinet that is going to be very different. And I like to have some of these meetings televise so that people can see how different opinions can be shared without condemnation and separation and segregation to the just the opposite. And that's why i'm grateful for platforms that are willing to invite different people with different ideas to share them.

If you don't like IT don't listen. You don't like I don't listen, or if you don't like IT take your turn and explain your perspective but don't shame and shout people down into um into um N D humanized them in that way unless it's painful speech that is hurting other human beings. And Frankly, I think most of what the left is doing right now, the far left at least, is just shutting down .

all debate. How do you know when the left gone too far?

Look at IT. I believe first, i'm a common sense human being more than anything else. Perform an american before.

I'm a jewish american before i'm a democrat before i'm a father, a son, a husband. You know, i'm a common sense human being that has an open mind and an open heart. Have a high threshold for anger when I get there, I get there and i'm resolute and i'm principled.

But I have a pretty good instinct when something doesn't seem right, when someone seems to be lying, when something doesn't seem to be reasonable. I love no ideas. I love IT when people try to convince me to this very day that the earth is flat or that we have UFO.

I love those conversations, Chris. We should have born those. No, but when someone says something that is just baseless, ly horrifying, dangerous, that's a little bit different.

And I can tell you i've got a meter or some type of a red light, Green light system. But I tell you i'm feeling more and more that there are things that I want to say that I sometimes can't. Then I know a lot of people want to say that they sometimes can't.

And that's why when my slogan is, i'm going to say the quiet part out loud, no matter what he does, no matter the implications, no matter the consequences, because i've actually suffer probably the worst, essentially ended my career in congress and have drawn the ire of probably hundreds of people in washington that used to be my very, very good friends. And i'm doing so because I think the truth has to be told that sometimes will be very much aligned with those on the left and sometimes will be very disappointing when they hear the truth. And I would ask my friends on the right to be open to the same thing. There are going to some things I say that you are going to totally agree with, and you're going to hear some things that I Frankly think you need to hear that you may not at all and be IT. I'll hug IT out afterwards as long as you're not threatning another human being IT .

seems pretty easily defined when the right goes too far. But we've seen over the last few years a total inability or inaptitude or just unpreparedness from people from the left to call out the extreme parts of that. You mostly fibre, but peaceful protest comes to mind. Uh, why do you think it's so hard to call out groups like antipho and other what a supposedly left the lines groups causing havoc? Chris, i'm i'm .

strongly with that right now as IT, as a jewish an you can imagine people who I consider to be protector's defenders, progressives who were was the protector of the underdog. I've kind of seen that affection um stop at our front door and that's hard you can imagine that's really hard right now and i'm trying to reconcile that um there are lot of communities that have been disfranchised, that oppressed, that have been mistreated uh in this country and all around the world.

And rather than condemning one another or separating from one another, my proposition as we should be united with each other and I don't quite understand that i'm processing that right now. I don't want people to be color blind. I want people to look at each other and love our differences and actually be attracted to those differences.

And I don't quite understand what this disease is. There is a disease on the right, and there is a disease on the left. And IT is not pervasive. But I think it's contagious, and I think it's afflicting more and more people every day, is still a small minority. And Chris, I would say that I represent the massive number of the exhausted majority, not just in the united states, but literally around the world.

People who just want decency and respect have a chance to put food on the table for their families, taking on vacation maybe once a year, retire with dignity and have the joy of living a life of pursuits and discovery in love. You know, it's not that much. And governments have not done a good job of protecting that, encouraging IT, investing in and enabling IT.

And these on the far right, in the far left, I think, have to be disenfranchise. And that's my proposition to americans right now. Go and vote in the primary change.

This nonsense break down. This do apply. And let's demonstrate to the world that IT is still possible. That's exactly i'm trying to do.

I do like the idea of the exhausted majority. I think that's A, A, A good way to categorize IT. Would you define the problems of the extreme right and the extreme left in different ways?

How do you how do you conceptualize those? What is the problem of the extreme right and what is the problem of the extreme? Laughing your perspective.

I say, yeah, I think there's actually more that similar than that's different. I think at the core of this believer that cries is groups of people who who believe in their hearts that they have been mistreated and that they've been disenfranchise. On the far right, it's just a very different version of IT.

On the on the left is a lot of people who are representing legitimate gripes about this treatment. Black americans have been horrible, mistreated by the united states of america. Slavery was a repulsed policy that should have ended far before I did.

And IT has a long, long tail. Native americans were horribly mistreated in this country. Uh, muslim americans? Is jewish americans, right? His panic americans, asian americans, L, G, B, T, Q, plus americans, everybody who can feel some degree of animosity, this in franchise's persecution, you know, have been mistrial. And they have rightful grapes about the need and desire and their rights to be included.

So if you look at both sides and they're very different circumstances, I believe on the left, I understand that this in franchisees that persecution on the far right IT tends to be more White americans who feel that they are being replaced to feel that somehow their cultures is being changed, how their um no longer and at some point the White americans are going to be the majority there, that they're being persecuted, they're being kept down, there are being a eliminated. And I think that is actually interesting ly enough, a very kind of a similar ethos that actually connects the far right in the far left, IT is this notion of miscreant ment, and they're angry. I believe, like I said, I believe my brother's and sisters on the left, I understand that Better.

But on the right, I think in terms of their hearts and minds, that is the root of IT. It's this notion of being replaced or being second or being a lower class citizen or something that scares them. When the other side is saying we've been lower class citizen forever, we just want a fair chance. But that connects people. I think we just SAT back and acknowledge, you know the human elements of both of these conditions um we can actually have conversations about IT and um instead we do through television screens, often through anger tainted or tiktok and we're only getting further and further pushed the corners which is what alvin taller warn is about in future shock. Uh, you know.

fifty years ago, I think the problem that people have when you look toward the left and the empathy that is proclaimed to kind of drive that we are helping the underclass. We are in these people along. Is that they don't believe that it's genuine empathy, it's performative empathy or its toxic compassion.

So ACC compassion is the prioritization of short term emotional comfort over everything else. So it's saying saying the good thing while while doing something which may be bad or giving somebody a solution which in the immediate may make them feel okay, but over the long term could even result in worse outcomes for them. Defend the police coming from people that live within gated communities like it's it's all, well, good saying defend the police when you've got private security or a locked compound or you live in a suburb that doesn't have any crime.

Uh we talk about single parent households being no worse for children's outcomes in due households like it's just it's factually not true and IT doesn't inform parents, teachers and uh the the friends about why the kids are behaving in this way. If the body positivity movement saying that there's no link between body weight and health outcomes because they don't want to hurt the feelings of people that are overweight, even if IT causes them to die soon IT literally to die sooner, that's toxic compassion, prioritization of short term emotional comfort over everything else in the long term. And I think that that's the skepticism that a lot of people have around the left that IT is been. So it's been the signature move to say the thing right, to post the tweet or the square rather whatever IT is, and then to forget about what the actual outcomes are and do not even bother to scrutinize these companies, do not bother to scrutiny whether or not be able or actually taking the money and putting IT in anywhere that's supposed to be profitable or useful for the outcomes that they spouse in the beginning.

Um I I think what you share is um is is compelling and you know anybody who's a parent knows that that's the daily struggle of being a parent short term you know pain for long term gain. How do you incentivize, encourage without diminishing? How do you though people have means, you know, how do you reward your children with enough to start their lives, but not so much that you literally limit their their aspirations, right?

Appearances from households that don't have much. How do you how do you manage your kids? How do you give them hope and opportunity when you don't h these are the chAllenges that I think every community, every household faces.

And now we're just talking about entire cultures. And I think you're absolutely right now, I think we should be using evidence to enlighten our decision making. I think we should be even if it's tough love, I think democrats should be more focused on generating and encouraging and investing in independence.

That's why I think we need health care for all, housing for all and education for all. And then once you have the foundation, then IT is up to you to either succeed or fail. But I think we should be raising the foundation.

I think that's what the left should be doing. But I see the toga war you're talking about right now, and I don't think either side has IT entirely right. I do think the exhaust majority, which combines elements of conservative principles with more progressive principles, both physical and socially, that's where most of IT is that that's where most americans are.

But we don't have a system that allows such leaders to rise. We have a system that, by definition, by almost by definition and by intent, pushes candidates the further left and further right, and then puts voters in the horrifying position of having to choose between the lesser of two evils time and time and time again. I just want to have Normal conversations, acknowledged the truth, you know, say things that we do have a border crisis that define the place is foolish.

You can embed social workers in police departments, which we should be doing, what we should not reduce, laender cement, especially communities that needed the most incoming for mini applys, where George floyd was murdered. Were we misunderstood that? Quiet does not mean peace, you know, increase.

We must took quiet for peace. There's a lot of anger around the world, lot of anger in this country, in the america, and now a lot of anger and a lot of communities right now. Just because they're quiet does not mean things are peaceful.

So yes, we're going to say the quiet part out loud. We got to stop the nonsense. We're going to speak the truth. We're gone to have people at the table of different perspectives and opinions coming to Better conclusions, and we're going to do that fast. How to do IT fast?

What would you say the structural pathologies of the left? When you're looking at the a democratic institution, the democratic institution, what is IT getting wrong? There's obvious ly, the sort of purity test cannabis alm m thing that IT cause what is IT from being inside of the machine? What is IT? The democrats are getting wrong structurally.

Well, I think I first, I think, you know, i'm a democrats because I believe that hubert humphry was my idle and he said the moral test of a government is how he treats those in the dawn of life, the dusk of life and in the shadows of life I think that is the fundamental role of government to protect those uh that need defense and support uh and to look out for those who are struggling.

And I do think democrats generally come from a position of fairness, pointing out in equities unfair circumstances and trying to fight for fairness. But I also believe that democrats, the left, if you will, are employing stereotyping just as um dangerously as as any group I believe um the lack of willingness to look at um uh talent um to look at possibility versus just looking at categories or identities. I think that's hard um for a country that prides itself on being a multi cultural basin where mary tok acy should be ultimately the goal where as certain communities, I think you need a little extra boost, not a hand out, but a hand up.

I think that's not unreasonable. But I do I look at I know I not I think I know that democrats are being subject to the very some of the very disenfranchise dangerous practices that um we have long accused the right uh of of practicing. And that means stereotyping and that means not looking at people for who they really are, rather just what they represent. And I think that's dangerous. And at the end of the day, crisis all comes back to the same thing.

If we don't create space in place for human beings to not get to know each other, we're gone to lose, particularly in an era in which we are so able to self select, not just with whom we live and eat and pray and sleep and think, but even where we spend our our virtual time, we can micro target just to be surrounded by people who see things and think exactly the same way. Not only is that a boring life, if you ask me, it's a really dangerous condition that I think needs an antidote. And I think a people like you and people like me, and I think people who are watching right now can all play a little bit of a role in doing something over the next year that maybe opens up the opportunity to break bread with someone who see things differently, or looks differently, or praise differently. And there we can actually leave some change and maybe end this nonsense.

I observe this really interesting dynamic OCR with A A lady called millican. I, so he walked out of washington actually he is a uh, statistician, a demographer looking largely at the outcomes of single parent households. And he just wrote a book called the two parent advantage.

Uh, the clue is in the title. This is the difference between single parent and dual parent households outcomes. I pushed IT quite hard on the episode to try and get out over her statistician skies and think about think about mechanisms like what is IT that's going on. So get IT you know, a little bit of bro psychology. Uh, SHE was fine to sort of give theories, but he was very reticent about about saying, you know, this is not my area of expertise so and so forth.

So what i'm saying is that he wrote a book that was planned to try and inform people coming from single parent households, people considering that people working through relationships and marriages and and family life and so in, to Better understand why the outcomes that they are looking at and why the dynamics and phenomena that little looking at are the ones that are happening. And when I asked her to get out of her ski, SHE said, no. So he is very ware of her own restrictions.

Before her book went live on twitter, uh, just the title of the book was released. No one had seen a gali copy. No one has seen a review copy.

Nothing like that. And he was destroyed mostly by people from the left. For this is conservative thinking being repurposed. This is you back to a Christian nation, or this sort of stuff. It's interrogating people from underprivileged, like working class backgrounds, such a setara.

And what I saw was a lady who, when I spoke her on the show, very touchy feely, didn't ask her about her politics, but I would guess that she's probably sent a left. And I saw online the exact dynamic that we've observed occur publicly with tons of people that the democrats under the left have made life so inhospitable to anybody who doesn't told the party line, even if they actually do. But IT doesn't sounds sufficiently like they do because of that toxic compassion thing where you need to say the thing up front.

That sounds right, even if and the long run results in bad outcomes. And as you and inevitably meet the eye of your own side, you will inevitably get by the other side. So I observe, I didn't see this happen with militia.

I am not saying that she's like swing, right, and she's now going to be employed by the daily why or something. But I saw the only support that was available for this lady that had written a very well thought out, very meaningful book. And SHE wasn't prepared to get out over a ski.

SHE wasn't trying to play game of ba ba ba. And I I saw this like, you know, period in spiral witchhunt, lambasted. And then the only side that left open is the opposite.

So know there is this sort of polarity where people just swing straight back across and go across. The other side is like, hey, guess what? You know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And if my x friend turns out to actually become my enemy, i'm gonna where i'm welcomed.

That's totally y and by the way, two things you shared have personal intersections with me, starting with single parent household. My, my father died when I six months old in viet. Now I was raised by my mother for three years alone.

We lived with my great grandparents. Ah i've explored my personality and how those three years without a father affected me. And they did I be lying if I didn't tell you they didn't.

Would I be Better for every child in the world to grow in a nurturing, loving, safe, secure household with a two parents? Doesn't doesn't matter if it's a mom and dad advised me, but a nurturing household with love in support. Yes, of course.

Do I think government can incentivize that or make that happen? No, I do. I think people have to. This is my argument, crisis. We have to start rebuilding communities.

And I think that starts with rebuilding the foundation so the people have a chance that we have health care and housing, education for all. In that way, we have raised the foundation. We can change that.

But here's the other thing. When I after october seventh, what happened in israeli, I got a lot more text and calls. This is, this is before I declared my candidacy for president, I got more text and calls from my republican colleagues so saying, I got you on my mind.

I'm so horrified. But what happened in israel? I know the jewish d aspera. Must be suffering. I only got like two for my democratic colleagues.

And then when I went back for votes after declaring my campaign for president, my democratic colleagues greeted me warmly, but my republican colleagues came up to me and look me in the eyes and said, man, your courage. I got to tell you, wow, and I got so what you just said is i'm human. No, I am adept enough and mature enough and have enough life experience to process some of these uh, these circumstances.

I'm not becoming a republican tomorrow, but I see exactly what you just shared in practice as a human being. And when you drive people out of your tribe, of course, they're going to a filler with the other side. Liz chain did that with us when he was pushed out of the republic lan conference.

SHE started hanging out on our side. And you know what, he started voting with us a little bit more. And you know what, I did an advertisement for her last campaign who would have fun fat because I saw her principal and full display.

So all i'm saying is there's a lot of truth out there, but you got ta dig for IT and you got to open your heart and mind. And my goodness, i'm learning things every day, some things that I kind of thought we're true, other things that have shocked me because I was on the totally wrong side, a fact. And it's been a joyful experience.

I just want to maybe end with that because I got to get running, Chris, but buy a message for anybody. Look beyond go abroad, right? Not just in you're reading and your your google in and your your podcasting, but find people and do things that open your mind and make you see things differently and um and lead with decency. And if we all did that just a little bit Better, my goodness, the things we can learn in the places we can go, and I can't wait to help lead us there doing phillips.

I appreciate you. Thank you that .

day as I do you, chis, be well and keep the faith.