#761 - Noah Kagan - What Are The Biggest Regrets Of The Super Rich?
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Hello, friends, welcome back to the show. My yesterday is no a cagan. He's an entrepreneur, founder of APP sumo and a youtube a does money make you happy? What about a lot of money? Like billions and billions of dollars, a lot of money.

No one has spent years around some of the richest people in the world and deconstructed some of their biggest regrets, thinking patterns and hacks for success. Expect to learn the most commentates of super rich people. The advice? No, I wished people would stop talking about why having a day job can be risky than starting your own business.

How much money no is spent on coaches is best tips for how to overcome self out. And much more, this episode is brought you by net sweet. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten answers. Rates will rise or for inflation up or down.

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If you wanting to read more, you probably want some good box to read that are going to be easy and enjoyable and not boil you and make you feel despondent at the fact you can only get through half a page without bowing out. And that is why I made the modern wisdom reading list, a list of one hundred of the best books, the most interesting impact, ful and entertaining that i've ever found, fiction and nonfiction, real life stories. There's a description about why I like IT, and there's links to go buy IT and it's completely free.

You can get IT right now by going to Chris will x dot com flash books that Chris will x dot com sush books. But now, ladies and gentleman, please welcome. No, what cagan.

No OK good OK of the show to see you.

I was so impressed to see that you email in twenty yeah .

tell me about that. You are reading the archive emails back.

It's just interesting to see who makes IT right. And I think I emailed you as a million dollar week was coming out in a team. Oh, there's a few shows I D love to be on and you are one of them.

I think Stephanie reached dad and reached dad and was a gas can happen like that's interesting. And I saw when you're clips about success by us as the world works, I like, I just want to tell my love is stuff. And I think that's such a thing that anyone can copy, like reach hot to someone. Just tell them that you ve made a impact or that you like what they are doing.

And so let me just search my gmail so I search Chris illian s in my gmail and he was in twenty, twenty and january he said, hey, mh said, I love you to come on the show and I just couldn't believe and then what was even crazy as reading into my girlfriend today I said, hey, i'm busy with my with a suma can you follow up in march? You said, no problem you follow up in march I said i'm busy in march. Can you feel in two th you followed up every single time and you don't know who's really going to make IT? But I said a lot about your character that you kept falling up, falling up and following up. And I, how was IT admire people that follow up?

thanks. All appreciated. Yes, it's come full circle. It's only what five years later or whatever find i've god got you .

in the end mother fucking yes no yeah.

I think look, there's a lot of disadvantages to being a obsessive and compulsive like um even if he doesn't meet the medical criteria of of that. There are a lot of disadvantages like you you see things and you don't let things go and IT causes you to move slowly like I find.

And a lot of the people who also have an attention to detail that probably over the top will notice that they leave things on the table because they can't move as quickly as people who are a little bit mobilizer. You know, if you're able to just like move fast, break shit, like that whole kind of like silicon valley S F thing, that's never been me, never, ever, ever been me. And i've kind of i've come to terms with that now and I realized why my competitive advantage of lies and it's being thora and paying attention to detail and winning in the weeds and other people can win with velocity.

But that's not the game I, I, I would need to. I do not just permanently bond like N D, M, A or something. If I was going to do that, you know that the only way I be able to get away with that.

So yeah, I think playing to your strength um whether it's in business, whether it's in content creation, whether it's in finding a partner you know uh crafting some sort of uh, persona outward brand for whatever is you're trying to build. I think to all of those things playing to your strength because that swimming down stream, like if I was trying to be the move fast break shit guy, things would go badly. But for me to be the detail orientated, like sprinkling of autism guide, what do you think that ever held you back?

How do you think that held you back in here? is? And then how did you get the podcast started? If you're someone who takes a long time to do things yet.

it's definitely held me back, but is very interesting. Being detail oriented and being obsessive about things results in you being held back in ways that are very invisible. Being moving fast and breaking stuff causes you to be held back or to fAiling in ways they're incredibly public, you know I mean, so a lot of this stuff will be um i've basically launched to zero businesses since running the podcast, even though we reach like half a billion people a year. I'm done any of that because I moved slowly and take my time with things.

And I don't tend to like experiment publicly all that much apart from with the one thing that I do all of my experimented with, which is the show. When IT came to launching the show back in twenty eighteen, IT took me six months to come up with the name. You come up with the name and come up with the branding and pick hours going to make IT all work.

So yeah, for for all that, perfectionism is procrastination. Master ating as quality control, and I do believe IT all the rest doesn't up a bound donor on how quickly certain people can move that stuff. And just like are IT will focus on the weeds instead.

I think what i've observed as people have IT backwards is that we stick too long on things not working and not enough on things that are are working. And the things that were not working, we could find out really quickly, maybe weekend. Yeah, that's more mystere le. And then once you find the thing that working.

how do you actually stick with that? I was reading this program. I say how to do great work and um i've been pretty obsess by this idea recently. He says the activation energy needed to start something is significantly greater than the activation energy needed to keep IT going hundred percent. But the inverse is true with your results.

So your results in the beginning of the lowest they'll ever be in your results toward the end of the highest theyll ever be so far, every episode that we put out now, it's like two hundred thousand times what I would have been six years ago, right? But in the beginning I was also the hardest that IT was ever going to be to do. So it's the hardest and the lowest return.

And then if you get further along, you've got Better consistency and motivation and systems in place and you get more return. But here's the kicker that pulled in right about, which is if you're not carefully, you don't protect your passion in your motivation through that journey from going from start to maturation. If you don't protect IT by not celebrating wins, by not having both internal and external motivation, by not having a team that helps to support you, by not all of the things like the motivation stuff, if you don't protect IT, you actually end up getting to a stage where is the easiest it's ever been.

It's the most returns that it's ever been, but your motivation is the lowest it's ever been. Because at the very beginning, motivations quite high. It's just that the returns in the difficulty are also like low and high respectively.

So you need to protect that passionate else. You end up in this this awful kind of like reverse hell where everything's going great. Apart from the fact that you don't have the energy, other motivation to keep IT going. So it's an interesting oc.

You started the show to take you six months from when you have the idea to get the name .

and launch IT pretty much um because was working on a turn of different I was running a business at the same time. And again, I wasn't just like I think maybe four months, I think I september or something twenty seventeen and then january of february twenty eighteen, we launched with alabama work in all the rest but even tif did A A podcast about how to launch podcasts, which you might remember pretty famous ages ago.

And there's a way that you can accurate at the top of the apple podcast charts by releasing multiple epsom within the first couple of days. I'm pretty sure the highest ever chart position that we had like the first five years was the first week, even though is completely terrible plays by using tems playbook. So yeah just it's a lot of preparation in the build up.

I guess what i've observed for for myself is that winning is motivating, right? IT was just sound so stupid and obvious. Most of the country, as i'm getting older, most clicks or obvious programs, got two great ones.

Makes something people want. How do you know when they want? IT right? But ever would like, makes us if you want.

But then I like, are you having trouble selling? You have in trouble marketing? Yes.

no one want what you write. I mean, I I must quote that about thing. You are doing sales because you sucked at marketing. You're doing marketing because you sucked a product. I must quote that to myself, like once a week .

and I would have all funded, uh, my last company and I was interesting to work with him. The thing that people here, and I think that's what i'm hoping just to reemphasize the thing you hear that might be create, maybe think about how you can apply for yourself. Like how do you know someone wants that? Maybe they're giving you money with.

My first youtube video was about three years ago. My first real one, IT, was just on my phone. But a few hundred people watched IT. And so talking about starting, which most will never do, which we I think you can do in a very short time, and then sticking with IT once is working and once you're sing some that early validation.

The other thing that that paul says that I think people here but don't do, and I didn't with no dollar weekend i've done that would ve up suma. I've been with me theyve one with all these things time and time again, is how do you do things I don't scale, right? Kind of another annoying one.

This is stuff i'm like, yeah, I know. But then people like, what how do you do my ads? I like, have you reached out to ten people that probably want this product? No, no, no, no.

That's I think I know same thing that you would know. I literally messed to thousand people. That was my goal.

Can I get a thousand people to be in my launch team and then help me with giving reviews and feedback on the book? And I now, you know, my my whole marketing plan is little, just a spreadsheet, a thousand lines. That's not really sexy, right? But that works. And I already validate that people said about the book. I got started two thousand and eleven with this concept, how to get things done really, really quickly.

Yeah, I think one of the other means that I wish IT caught hold. And then it's been sort of bestialities the most. Someone asked me, what's a piece of business advice that you think needs to get in the bin? And leverage, despite the fact that I love IT, has also been completely used and rep uri sed in ways that are wrong.

So people start learning about leverage and they think, oh my god, my inputs can be magnified. So I get more outputs, fantastic. But they then start to forget that there are like high touch advantages to people who are prepared to not use leverage.

So for instance, my backgrounds and club proa, when I first launched my podcast in twenty eighteen, i've still got the messages in my whats up. You used to be able to chunk your address book together into fifty person broadcast lists on whats up. And I had two and half thousand contacts from being a club promote for a decade in a half.

So I put fifty, fifty, fifty, fifty, fifty all the way to two and half thousand, and send every single one of them a message saying, hi. I just launched new podcast IT would mean a lot to me if you could subscribe an apple podcast. Here's the link. And I did that just myself on my phone for like weeks. IT took weeks to do, but that resulted in us getting a turn of reviews at the stop.

What are you telling yourself at that time? I think that's the part people might hear this. And a lot of people aspire to, to have a business, be an entrepreneur.

Guess what? You don't have to be tall like you'll fit. You don't have to be fit to be successful.

Endurable could be anywhere in the world, right? Like how great is that? Like you could be born anything and be successful. But I I think it's interesting you'll never get started.

Some clears what you are going through in your head because a lot of people feel like, oh, I don't want to bother people. I don't want to ask people that something I i've learned as one of the things holding must feel back. They are afraid of asking.

yeah I that that fear or that bar to get over is completely removed by being a club promoter. Just doesn't. It's like we've spent our entire career standing.

People unwarranted unsolicitous ssa's asking if they're going out on a tuesday, a cold, wet tuesday in middle october. You're fine with sending people messages. You're fine with asking for things.

Chilly hoop had tried to reverse engineer some of the stuff that I do. He said that I do and he came up with one that I hadn't realized that I do. I when IT comes networking and one of them is, I assume, familiarity.

So i'll send him messages that are like there's no hay. There's know how you there's no nothing. It's just like the meat and potatoes of what you would send your friend.

You know it's just uh automatically you ve got to read this like just that without any couching and it's degree of familiarity in that um because that's what we used to do with nightlife. But I basically what i'm saying is become a club promote to for fifteen years years and everything, you will be fine. What one of the things that I love about your youtube china, you've managed to get yourself into some very interesting situations with some very wealthy people. You've spent a lot of time interviewing billionaire and then watch your way up to billionaire as well. What are the common traits that you found, some of the on commonalities between a lot of the very wealthy people that spoken to?

Yeah I think what's interesting is going back to promoting its asking. I just asked different people if they new billion's, anyone can ask. And it's a skill you can get Better at because you did IT yourself. You asked and ask, ask when you had your own product, your show, you ask. So one of things that I would say it's a similar to what you're already talking about in your show, all of the billion's not not some of all the billionaire I worked mark izoka er mock the Angel know got a beer amperes to a little bit billionaire. They all got rich on one thing.

So if you think about yourself, you like i'm just doing the show and most other people, like diversify, do these other things like for myself, I really only got rich on assuming i've done a lot of stuff and i've tried so many things you have never heard of in the same thing with these billionaire like I was in fetis kink's in the polar Philip, he found a kinko sold for two point four billion. He's like I just did copy's for thirty four years. That's a long time and I was joking.

Um the guy on my house from as a football player is a kicker. Do you know I was joking about IT this morning. You know, this day is like this, what his day is like as a professional and ethical ker, think about his monday, lots of kicking and then tuesday and wednesday and then, okay, at night he watches kicking, and then wednesday and thursday and friday and he kicks for ten seconds on sunday.

And I, hey, loves kicking and he's a great person. I think it's finding the thing that the world once, and that you enjoy doing, that you can do ideally at six, ten years, twenty years, most of billion's. I say the second point, once they found the one thing that's working, they stick with IT for an extraordinary long for the time, extraordinary.

And I almost none of them got Richard in one way, like very quickly. I I generally believe that this coming, if IT works quickly, great, but if IT the business gets built slowly, IT goes wasteful. But IT compounds time and time in time.

So I think that's a huge thing that doesn't a talk about because it's like these guys aren't in rich overnight, in rich in twenty years. The other thing a few other things that i've noticed is that they are working in billion or trAiling of our markets, right? And a lot of IT, let's take up suma, were almost one hundred million dollars in revenue doing software deals.

Yes, we're skilled. Yes, we're stuck with fifteen years. But also software went from. There is ten software products available now.

In fifteen years later, there are tens of thousands of, not hundreds of thousands software products. So we are in a good wave. And so being mindful OK, youtube, if I started in that, that might get bigger.

So can you look at google trends? Can you have your own intuition? Like how can you look at some data to get that indication? And so social 点 working， there wasn't any sacd right inking kink's.

There wasn't copies and things like that, a basements later jessi. You know, there wasn't as money, anyone doing basements. And his his funny line that I love was we showed up on time in sober so professional blue collar work and you know energy traders and all these different things that have interviewed.

They work in errors where you can make that amount money. And I noticing, like an a funny example you can think about at home, is physical therapy, or mass or misuse, comes from how shadow clear SHE has made one hundred forty a session, which is great. It's like how many sessions you need to do to make a million.

That's a lot of backs, right? okay. Well, maybe should hire people great. Or th then maybe you create the platform great or maybe you create software that can go to local businesses as well as online businesses.

And so I think you have to be mindful of the opportunity you're thinking in uh, for the market size. Now say, lasting from billion's, I don't know. All them are very happy.

I'm pretty happy being a multimillionaire. I really have beautiful ultima. I think when you hear people I want to be a billionaire, one of these billions, like I wanted be a billionaire, they were very excited about problems.

And I I I wouldn't say there I don't have data, didn't survey like you're happy. You're not happy because it's also a subjective, but I don't know a lot of them being really content with life. I got to interact with one of them and I I want call him out.

But he liked, he was just crazy shit. And I like wild. This guy has got a lot of things going on.

And I was the reason I left slow king valley. The reason, you know, for me doing a lot of things is like, I wanted to, I wanted live. I'm not here just to make so much money that I can have the nicest cemetary grave.

I like, okay, yes, I want to Carry okay, machine and my cemetery. Y, I think that be really fun, thinking how could be come over and like party of means, like the feel. But I would say a lot of them seem regret that they didn't baLance the time with their families, because I know death, bad people know this stuff.

We get very fixated on how much money what's like, how my comparing to the other person um when you know my phenomenon, SHE doesn't care. She's like I just care about who you are. And I think a lot of the people aiming sometimes for billion or so on the overall bounced up for themselves, for their family, for their friends who are so sess to .

work did so much to go through that. Yes, that's really, really great. okay.

So um first of the doing one thing going narrow and incredibly deep, the very, very correct that there is this you've got something going on now it's time to diversify after having done IT for A A small amount of time. Um that doesn't that really, really mega wealth and mega, mega success. I don't look at many people unless you're a personal brand.

M what you're doing is kind of bestower like you if you're shack right or like if you're bestower your a seal of approval on multiple of the businesses, but you're still only working on you, right? It's still it's not shack giving himself a Monica or like becoming a you know a cape crusader at night or something like that. So just in so that's very interesting.

The consistency thing and being prepared to play long term games as well makes complete sense. Finding a very large ocean, one that's hopefully getting bigger, I think in other podcasting audience is growing around about thirty percent between twenty and thirty percent a year ish, something like that. So if you just hold on to your market change, guess what you get to grow at twenty thirty percent of you.

I would think what that question specifically, are you seeing a market that can be bigger? Others don't realize it's going to be bigger. When I started up, I I was always fixed on the problem. Most people, when the certain business are fixed on solutions A I don't care like crypto, don't care what is IT solve for the actual in person, and ideally yourself as a customer, but also others.

And what are you seeing that if this problem actually helps someone? Can there be a lot more people in the future that you can help? And so when I start up, so I went to my mentor.

And K, I ve got this idea, software deals, I think, cool. I like all these business, are the prom. Getting customers I can solve that is, yes, my works. And the only way you can find out is what the customer. And very quickly, I tested IT. People wanted IT and I was like, oh, so I think I was inspired by by mark manson n but it's like find something that other people are doubting or not sure. Get validation of IT, if you can, very quickly. And then later, I would say if you stick with that, I can prove to be a very successful business because if there's market opportunity and then there's market awareness, there's market Prices, there's market everyone's then try to get in IT follow so you have to find the thing where it's like a lot of my best marketing is I found things before everybody else found IT, and I took full advantage of IT.

But they going to find .

IT eventually yeah I mean, after up soon, I think six other people, maybe ten, fifteen copy me like, oh, off for you, that's cobs copy him and then none of them took IT seriously. I think that was among a few other things they took as a hobby, right? It's like, okay, i'm going to learn to swim, but i'm going to swim.

Maybe want to week, that's fine. I'm smiling everyday. If i'm trying to get a professional, there's a different and in a professional, there's a major leagues and minor leagues and and a lot of the time is just that.

Are you putting in the effort to focus on the one thing? And i've tried IT. I know when I was doing social media launching my youtube. Now I tried every platform, instagram, tiktok, linked in youtube, twitter, blogging.

And I like it's really hard to win all of these, even podcasting like let me to fix one that I feel like the work i'm doing has proportional to the results in terms of the views on getting relative the effort. And i've always stuck for me was love one hundred. So it's like, how do I do one hundred videos before I quit? Because I think we all know we quit too soon. Everyone has. So i'm curious for your journey well.

how you've not quit, and that's mostly joy. Know I did this long before anybody listened. Like if you look at the graph of the shows growth over time, it's flat for three and a half years. Three and a half years in, we'd had Peterson on the show. So it's still flat comparatively to them.

Only eighteen months ago did I do rogan and IT was if you look back at to the point at which I go on rogan, it's like that is so small we did more plays in december of last year than in the entire first three and a half years of the show. We accumulated more subscribers in one month that we did the entire last three and half hours. Of the first three and half hours of the show, eighty five percent of the audience found this last year, and we were at half a million subs at the beginning of last year, and eighty five percent of them found.

This is just the the compounding. And this is going back to that pulgram thing that was talking about before. As time progresses, each unit of your effort will be worth so much more.

And that's why the stick with IT muscle is something that's very important. But the easier way to stick with IT is to enjoy what you're doing or to do IT regardless of what the external accusations are. If you would do this thing for free, you will win.

Because the person that loves walking will weigh out, walk the person who has to walk every single day. Oh my god, i've got ta get myself up and go for another walk again. That guy just want he trying to stop him.

He just wants to walk. So for me, yeah, I found the intersection of of having conversations, learning in curiosity. And that was the show.

So have you ever given up to him, or when he would have stuck with something? Because everyone has, I want, like my podcast, I started IT crushed, and then IT wasn't at one hundred thousand dollars in episode. I build out. And I gave up for six months and I came back, and now at seven thousand and episode. And I would beg for and happy with that.

And I focused on other things, but I was a good reminder of like, same thing with up soon, same exactly with you were first year three hundred thousand, second or three million, then we were flat, and then last year was seventy six point seven million, right? And what's crazy is we've had and its amazing, you know, the partners are happy, customers happy to happy. What's amazing of we have days now that were the same as years. And so I think one of things that i've been really reflecting on my leadership style and business strategist is less aggressiveness. I know that kind of two most of we will talk about and something i'm not saying this in a solly approach, but if you're less aggressive, it's more sustainable.

Well, you you can jog for longer than you can sprint, right? Yeah and and gc ally, that is that is the way you you're dealing with this staminate b inside of your mind did you don't know how you don't know where IT is, like playing my computer, but you don't know where the bottom is and you just thinking, I just presume that you need to do the thing that you're doing for another ten. Yours just presume that you always need okay.

could I keep doing .

alright so huh because .

so this is the thing. And I think this is such a powerful moment. Most you will just not start most we were like, I like to have a podcast. I like to have any commercial. I like even have a wife.

And so for me, what i've noses like, what's the thing you could do right now like everyone could put out a show? And if for me, that sounds somewhat i'd love doing IT like i've been putting out stuff since two thousand before they turn that was around, right? I think you are what held twenty three? what? How you .

thirty five?

Okay, so I just think before you were born, but you're just look and so i've just been doing and I like IT people like what to do this, so I enjoy IT, but IT is there's definitely that they are getting started and then finding away maybe love one hundred, three, two hundred episodes. But doing IT ideally find something people want and then finding .

ways to stick with IT. So ninety percent of podcasts don't make a past episode three, and over the ten percent that do, ninety percent of those don't make a past episode twenty. So by making twenty one podcasts, you're in the top percent all of all podcasts ers ever in history.

And so you're doing your podcast, and I think these are the kind of stories more people need to hear something with my youtube channel when I was on my youtube and I when I first put first three of three interviews, I was just sure, listen, my room, my phone, second video. Same thing I don't think I put a sure on.

And then I was like, a thousand years and I just kept sticking with and I was like, I just like this, and I was playing around with things. And I did three, five days a week for every single week for year. And then finally, thing in the year is like OK, I want to get more subs.

I'm doing the same, what everybody else is doing, but I want to try different. And so we did at one eighty, we just like, let's go crazy, knocked on doors. But I think the fact they were like we can do at least one hundred videos this whole year definitely kept us going.

So i'm curse for you. Besides, we enjoyed IT. What are you telling ers of these first three years? And I think that's the part that people don't really in here.

but that's what they need to hear, to be honest. Man, I wasn't telling myself much. I was hungry to to establish myself in a world I respected. So I respected a lot of the people that I was on.

I was in the wake of, I respected the rogan and the Petersons and the joke s and the summer harasses and the land button in the school school of lives. I respected them, and I, they gave me so much, they improve my life so much they helped to understand myself, that I figured, well, luck if I can, even if i'm a thousand miles behind them. If i'm moving along that same sort of a track, it's definitely going to benefit me. And if it's going to benefit me is almost certainly to benefit some non insignificant minority of other people as well.

So let's just keep on doing this thing and um then yeah before you know what kind of everything catches up is very strange and IT must be the same with you too like when all of the things that you wanted to have happen kind of OCR and like you go a holy foot like is this what arriving feels like? Have I arrived? Have full of myself? I am I to think that i'm arrived? How like an congratulatory? Am I to think the thought?

Am I the sort of person that has the thought? Am I the sort of person that thinks have I arrived like I needs just this infinite, regressive like self mile station but yeah, it's like it's very interesting. It's very, very interesting.

Have been reflected on this like the the trajectory of of journeys and stuff and why people stop and why people keep going, and things a awful a lot. But you know, the thing that you touched on at the end, which I was really fascinated to get into, is billions. And whether or or not they say that wealth is worth IT, you've SAT down opposite these guys that are worth and all a lot of money. What do you see in their eyes when you talk to them?

It's the things unsaid. And one that stood out was powerfully, if I am kingo's sold two point four billion, what's kingo's fedex, right? You know, fedex has stores. Yes, when you go everything, one of those sources was a kink's.

Okay, so that was the brand before. Yeah OK. So back in the day.

my my father in amErica sold copyright. I'm familiar the copyright and fact businesses. And yeah, so all these stores that had copy machines around because I was the way you printed things back on day. And so one of the things he said and that kind of excited me a little bit, was he like I was stress for every year thirty four years, like that doesn't sound really enjoyable.

And is is there other ways? And there are other ways, but that was definitely telling the other people out there outside, john paul mital h apple dejases, you know, a mitral hair care of a he was on a few where I really, I really idle ze him. I'd love that guy doesn't have a computer.

The have computers. Death, nothing. And he seems very kind to himself, into others. And I felt really inspired by his story, where his whole thing was, and he was homeless twice.

His story is kind of crazy, right? The things that I really took away was I felt like one, he didn't try to do a lot of stuff. It's like let me find something I really believe in.

Just one thing, if you think about he really is two products, hair care and kila. That's IT. That's IT both billion dollar business.

So the term for three or five billion. The other thing he said that I was really telling and interesting was selling is the most important skill for him selling. And he says, I love to be in the reorder business, so I try to find a product that's the best.

And at the time, now is obvious. But I can we come back to non obvious, obvious things. There wasn't a thirty dollar bottle of tella. Now hundred dollars will kill us like the narm. And he said, people have to reorder IT.

And to your original point, to my experience with up to and the customer youtube and I watcher my book and the reader, he tried that tequila shown he's like, holy shit, there's nothing else like, I love IT. And this is the part again that people never hear these parts of the story. He spent two years without a lot of sales.

He just believed that, though he's like, this is something here. With that, I think you have been similar. I worked at facebook. We saw the early data of people going and saying on this, even though externally, people to know how big we're going to be. And so I think you have to have some early like success or win to feel like, okay, I like IT and people seem to like IT. I'm going to stick with that because I think what happens if people find something known once and he's stick with that probably too long and so what him is after two years finally, I don't think of the Oscars are some finally huge celebrity thing finally like, okay, now people know that I know like while purt killer. And seven years later.

then I only saw I had a conversation with deem, phillip PS, who is a democratic candidate for the presidency. This he's also the guy who found belva of vodka and a talented gilo. Both of them, yeah.

And with belt ity of odd, they were pretty flat, pretty flat, believed in IT, believed in IT, believed in IT. And then one morning he puts on mtv in je s there, which just bottles and bottles and bottles about the deal. And everything just goes completely bizarre. After that.

yeah, you can definite increase your chances of luck, right, if you but is not sitting at home waiting for the looking in the mirror in an first IT like there was john pll dedit selling IT and selling IT and selling IT. And so I love that he talked about the reorder business selling a one off something that like a bug. Gac, maybe people want to keep listening to IT.

And then I was lasting that I admired about him and a contract with the other person as well. The day he sold his company, he donated fifty million box. And I think a lot of people like I know i'm I donate, I do these things and it's kind of shit.

It's not authentic. And IT reflected to me how genuine he is about being just a kind person. And I felt like he to me in my interview with him, in the hour and half I got to spend with them at his house.

IT was just like, wow, what a person who seems to be content. He's got enough. And I think most of the other billion's have read.

I don't know it's ever enough. And it's like what you just gonna be fully contain with life. I know I think that's something i've worked on in the past few years. Just like is enough money ah to have a great enough growth and not great. She's amazing.

I an amazing girlfriend, do you know like to have enough attention, right? Otherwise is this external chase that just can never end, were never satisfied and definitely some these other billion airs. I don't know that I appreciate them sharing their stories, but they seem like IT has never been enough, seem like they never spend our time with their family. And I even got some I get text from them and .

my irl's end what are the biggest regrets of .

rich people and a family? It's almost always the family. It's like I just wasn't direct my family. So they got divorce. The kids don't really interacted thum or maybe the ideal um and I just say there's some level, especially below.

It's just like it's never enough and you still out there chasing IT and I did that level of dissatisfaction, which is helpful in being entertained. An entrepreneur is someone who says, hey, I have a problem. I can do something about IT. great. Eventually, though, you might need to be satisfied that the problem is solved, that you can be content with dissatisfaction .

and satisfaction. There's an idea that I came up with that IT, turns out, was really a named for. I hate IT when that happens.

they're all i'm .

forging new cognitive ground here. Let me explain the world of psychology. So I called IT the vestigial patent bias. And IT was already called the installing effect. So do you know why quality keyboards are quality, why they have that those letters .

at the top it's not the fastest? Um I don't know.

So when typewriters were first made, if you have letters next to each other that they commonly use, they can often stick. If you try to use one, then the other theyll stick in both. I'll fire when you want you meant to one.

So what they did was they try to create a map of the keys where letters that were commonly used were not together so much. And that would free this up. So this is a good path dependency, right? It's the same reason why um railway tracks are now just like locked in like at what point are we able to change the width of railway tracks from whatever they were originally?

So there's actually a myth. This isn't true and I propagate some disinformation. There's a myth that the the size of the space shuttle is the wit of two horses asses.

It's not true. It's not true. sorry. Like I must apologize to the internet. My point being the patch dependency is there is a pattern that existed before and you are kind of locked as you move forward.

I think that there's an equivalent here with people that want to improve and grow their business that especially when you begin, you're the guy that puts a thousand people in a spread sheet or you're the guy that split up two and a half thousand people into fifty percent broadcasts, lists and sense of our individually to the the person that follows up every other month for six months to some guest that doesn't know who the fuckyou are like. That is a very specific skill set and it's very, very useful in the beginning. But IT is a fuel that holds you back when you get later on the line.

The tools that got you here won't get you there. yes. And letting go of that is particularly difficult because you think, well, you have proof, especially if you come from a working class background, specially if you come from that spit and sodas and from the northeast of the U.

K. You know, a thirty thousand pound wage there is like, you've done really fucking well. So these are people that earn their stripes. These are people that just, you know, roll the sleeves up and get back to work, then realising the the skills set is now to relinquish h all of that, to tell other people, to encourage all the people, to teach other people to be able to do that on your behalf is is a completely new skills ser, to completely new skills ser.

What happens when you arrive? I, I, I resonate that so much. My twenty years, I was really angry and litter, I got fired.

Facebook, I got fired at meta common. And my holy shit, this is a great motivation like that's great fuel. And at some point though, all my content I says for the underdog and someone said to me like .

I don't think you're dog dog no.

maybe I still like that message in some way. But then I I also think it's from going to therapy, having relationship coaching, have a business coach, have a CEO coach journal, whatever is reach person finding regarding maybe that vision read dusting like, okay, maybe I don't need to stop proving them wrong, maybe can to start proving myself right, maybe don't need to prove anybody else anymore. And I can just think about what makes me proud.

And then maybe a lot of IT for all of us, which we can all do, it's truly, really scared of. And the thing of what what that isn't be like, okay, let me go into that a little bit and see what happens. And so you are right with these people.

Hey, were dissatisfied, he some daddy issue ever. Whatever is that leads them to the success at the beautiful, you put IT maybe reevaluate because they still over you in the next phase. And now let's take exec an example.

He didn't start facebook to be like, i'm going to take over the world. He's like, it's going built something in the weekend. See if I can change my life and meet some girls and then as a word is like, oh IT my vision change now and take of the world and then now is really change one shot, something else.

It's interesting to think about the arriving pot and about the what does IT mean to let go of what used to feel you like. That's a very I think a lot of people have this concern um and I here this quite regular. I did this like to towards back end of last year, which was fun.

I did to buy the U K. Island, canada, U S. Where everywhere like seventeen shows in twenty eight days of something is really fun. I wanted the most common questions that people asked a couple of them.

How do I know if to think that i'm about to pursue what thinking about pursuing or pursuing is the right thing? So like optionality and multiplicity of options is a chAllenge. And I get swamped with the paradox of choice, basically, is that one.

And then another one that was really common was i'm scared to congratulated myself too much because if I do, i'm worried that i'm going to kill my drive and my motivation to keep going forward. And I used to have that in my experience and be interested to know your thoughts if you are the sort of person that sufficiently driven that also has the ability to do that level of introspection. Your drive is like a nuclear reactor inside of you.

That just isn't going to stop. And by the time that you've got to the stage where you can ask that question because achieve may be a bit of success, oh, comfort, whatever the habit and the consistency in the momentum is just your free eeling downhill at one hundred miles now. And now you're like, I try to pump ed the brakes, but IT doesn't really work.

And if I take my photo of the accelerating ss, what we still go quicker so um yeah those those were two interesting things. But I think the the fear of being thankful, being grateful, it's like this is my edge. My edge is my my bit ness, my resentment, my desire to prove people wrong, my underdog story that I continue to tell myself.

This is where I get my fuel from. This is what pushes me forward. And I don't think that IT IT may be what gets people started, but IT IT doesn't seem to be what keeps healthy people going.

I would I would agree. I would. I think you can end up in the same destination is just more how do you want to feel along the way? And in myself, i'm i'm like the worst person in the world to myself. I think we all are actually, for the most part. And what are reflected on on twenty forty recently was like, wow, I could have gotten here just in a lot friendly of away.

I didn't have to be literally are you're guilty about you drink too much? Or why is this business failure? Why is this girl soccer? How come you're not doing Better here? It's like, who are you talking to? And so one of my bodies taught me this thing few years ago.

It's like anytime a negative thing you criticized yourself, say positive thing right afterwards. And it's silly. It's silly. A lot million like a little silly things, but you start doing IT and also doing this stupid stuff. And then i've noticed now I don't think about anymore. But when I try to usually guilt myself, IT doesn't come up and i'll do silly like a mountain biking and remember, I want over A I was like, good job and I was like, fuck said that. Like.

where did that come from? What are you disapproving? Fucking like P, E. coach. yeah.

But do this is for all of us, man. Like h my data or my person would be disappointed me. Who who is there? Who is that boy, you know, like the surrender experiment.

if you ve read that, yes, by Michael sing buster book.

I know that one. And it's just noticing these these negative things that were criticizing what doesn't mean we can't acknowledge IT like, hey, you just selling wrong like I wrote an article that I sent to near you all and he said, hey, had sucked I like, yeah, he's right but I didn't have to be mean and take myself down in that moment I could be, yeah, he's right I think of a Better here does a great feed back think and I like article and good put more effort to do IT.

I'm proud of IT and I think we can if we are all more mindful of that and just even small moment like cooking or are we talking other people or I was on a show yesterday. I was like, I don't know if I did my best and guess what? That's okay. I can get Better.

I can ask them like, did you like to show what did you guys think giving feedback? Actually you good OK 这样。 So that's something something where uh, years now, maybe past three years, just like any negative that you say about yourself, just at least try to say positive right after to get them to have a negative.

I can change that. That's not going to go away. But the more you recognize positive in us, which we all have way more than we realize, did you just do that over over over, over over? You know like overall.

eventually you're like pretty good person does a lesson that the internet seems determined to not learn, which is people with success aren't allowed to be unhappy with their lives. And IT blows my mind because I completely understand. And still me, you looking up, like you look at A A rogue or whatever who's a friend and you go disguise, got his fucking of a nice conversation.

I can open the door. Spotify, briefly, a couple of about month a half ago, added a new piece of functionality onto their platform. They added stories, which are these vertical scroll clips that people could swipe through when they landed on a channels account on spotify.

So you'd have that little circle kind like you do on instagram. And when he pressed IT A, I would have gone into the episode and found maybe a ninety second salient. Section and you can swipe through, and I would tell you stuff, what IT also did was IT was the first time ever that spotify made follow accounts public.

So for about two and a half to three weeks, you could click on this little circle and IT would come up, and I would show the follow accounts of all is the all of the night, like everybody on the planet. So I see this and immediately just light up every whats up chat that i'm a part of word, like, can you see this on your account? And some people did been rolled out, some people and not to others.

So we paid some like vietnamese V A to scrape the top five hundred shows and put them all into a spread sheet. And then they removed the the functionality. But rogan is in a different universe to everybody else.

Just for context, he shows twenty six times bigger than mine, just by followers alone. It's a complete other other world. But you would look at somebody like joe ago, you owned design comedy club and he's got this beautiful house and he's got the big gest forecast in the world, and everybody knows his name. And he moves culture, and he does he like while having fun, and he can take mushrooms and he can smoke away, and he's got the like.

And if he was to complain about something that he was dealing with psychologically or the side effects of some of the fame of the success or whatever, it's like champagne problems, right um alright yeah yeah difficile for you like such as such can't pay bills this week and you you told the right like the material conditions of that person can be perfectly illustrious, right? And yet that inna experience can be not only as bad as somebody who's done there, but they also have got the layer guilt on top that they don't even have any material concerns to users. Excuse, I have been fascinated by this, by this problem, like champagne problems or titanic problems is another one.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I regret that I was so unhappy along the way to get here that I made IT so much harder on myself and someone we're disappointed in myself.

And could you have done IT without that?

I don't think so. That is, I don't know. Mam, I don't know. I definite motivated me feeling that so many people doubted me. I got fired once and fired twice. Realize, unless I want to be not for nurr, then no one else going to take my livelihood way again. You know, mark did IT once and then earned IT meant and I thank them because they did with me on a path.

It's hard to replay the entire game, but I do recognized, like, did I need to make IT so hard to myself along the way? And now in the forty stage, which remember being twenty thing in forty years, like the set table, man, now let me just have some my ass off and ground is like, okay, tried out. Do IT your way.

I think my what i'm noticing as i'm getting older is that my baseline is generally more content. And what's crazy, i'm having the exact same problems. Not not i'm creative process, but like someone quits, this person does not work out.

This customer didn't happen, this partners upset whatever is. But my understanding and way i'm responding to IT is changed and evolved and so my baseline overall of contentment is higher. And then my swings of, oh my god, i'm doing party and i'm whatever it's happened in going to the playboy mansion, which is crazy and on german, yeah i've got cut out of the party but like german.

you're doing to go you kicked out .

with a play party okay, i'll tell this, but the swings are just so much crazier was like that is high versus like, you know then i'm feeling bad of myself going to india, right? Like I don't know what like I feel like india is the place. Get answers from, obviously, that party.

Uh, I start a business doing payments for facebook games. No, like farm of all is annoying ing things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we are building the games. And my dreams is to move to argentina, build those games, and have all funded me. When argentina realize I hate in making games, then ten fair rs came in, hang out.

I mean, it's just a story. And then I moved back amErica to here because my partner, we're going to quit. And we're like this to build something that we need.

So we built payments for games. And one of the payment was signing up for like a fillide office like signior neth lix subscription. I got these different affiloir leads.

And so if you were in the top three of filling at sales with one of the add networks, that you've got to go to the player I mention. And so we worked our asses off to go to the player mention, that was there was just three of us. Now, intern, you imagine an intern shat out song hao.

He had a great year that year, and yeah, got a bus ride. And the, I had sex in the grade as as you gotta do IT take all, yeah. And then ran journey was there. And I .

was so for the pump.

I grew up with him. So I go off. I'm so bluster on man, and I am like, ground german y, you're my dad, you're my dad and you raise to me and you think, fuck are you?

I like, sorry. He's like, yeah, it's like, fuck. He's like trying to talk to the chicks. And then I got into an argument with the playful bunny.

I don't remember what about, but I got kicked out, still had a great time, still a great time. I like the zoo they have there and all that forever. Ah that was an experience, alia. And so that's like a high that I never going back to the hotel room and having a role that argument with my girlfriend.

I can imagine that would have been an issue yeah so the looking back and it's that insight that the resentment, the pain, the bitterness is really, really potent field to get you started but is pretty toxic to keep you going. But I really don't know how you have proof that this is an effective strategy and letting go of something that you know what to be like oh yeah like you know I did the I covered every um email. I ensured all of the stuff.

I was every single slack message. I made sure that I was on top whatever is like the level attention to detail or the level of iterations or the whatever is that you do and then to go and now it's time for me to transcend, to grow out of that somehow. Ah that's really hard.

But all my Marcus, when he released his book, and this is at the announcement, I think, for hitting the new york times is list, maybe like four or five years ago, he gives this speech and IT sound very similar to something you were talking about. He said, I spent so much of my life terrified what I was going to become and whether I was going to be right here, right now. God, how much time did I waste afraid I wasn't going to be right here right now? If I could change, the only thing i'd change about my whole life would be feeling less that I wouldn't get right here the place that I was going anyway.

I wouldn't change all the mistakes, and perhaps I needed those, but all the constant worried that I wasn't going to make IT that took me out of enjoying the moment IT took me out of enjoying these experiences, smiling or eating my lung shot, doing whatever I was doing. Know your mission. Have fake you going to get there wherever you go? It's going to be all right. Just find ways to get out of your .

head only football. Ls, I was great out out for thank on. Yeah, thinking that the failures aren't so bad. We ourselves are not so bad. One of my best friends, tiny and I here's a hack and life, just beer and positive.

People I know sounds silly, but in your town, if you around, people are like, hey, you can leave here. Hey, you can do anything. You one may be, it's online.

I don't know that that was the case, but I know for time and he's always saying, no, your life is awesome and can get Better and needs start that all the time. And it's like, that's a great person. Be around.

And so noticing George mac has this idea of sofa friends and trade friends, so some friends have you to spend time with them. You need to go online, the cell and other friends after you spend time with them, we want to go run on a trade mill, and you should aside to have as many traditional friends good at .

time in your life yet. And I mean, I done. I need, I record my conversations with him, so I listen to him back and that's whether you put that out publicly or just for yourself. It's been helpful.

I think one of the transformative i'm trying to I love you your post about success cause it's easy when people are successful, but they don't have a lot of podcast of all the people who failed, right? Like those is not okay. Do you know maybe you arn from that too in some china reflect like where was this transformative moment?

I don't think there is one defensive like kate changed everything, but if I had a summers ize and try to boiled down when I stopped avoiding, when I stopped that in, my my old therapy would say the only way in is true. And so I quit his therapy and I found a new one. But afterworld.

I don't like, I D like the only way through is around here.

What's the shortcut? Is there a long cut? No ever talked about the long cuts. The long cut, which is the, I would say, the right cut for me, as I transformed my life to feeling more content and a piece inside, was, what are the hard things i'm really avoiding in life and I was avoiding, I was avoiding work.

I was avoiding what's the worst thing I really want to do in in work that I can do, but i'm scared of. And I was being back at up o because I was obvious ly to three years off, and I was just make IT all this money, not doing really anything. And the guy, the guy was running a quit.

So that was kind of a forced thing, were like, I have to face this. So that was then getting back to being A C E. O and ruining and mess up the company for two years.

And finally last year. Like, oh, shit. Okay, maybe I can. The thing I was most afraid of and I thought was scary, I can overcome. And this is true for everyone.

Like what's the hard thing boarding next with relationships? Okay, I would like to have a partner. I'd like someone to like me. I like to like myself. But then my behavior was party.

My behavior was like, gone on china, a hookup s so like, right? Well, that's not what you say you want to do. Your behavior is not alone to what's the hard thing. Hard thing is taking yourself seriously, not say can have fun, but okay, you wanna have a farmer partner, let's take that.

There's let's get a coach this woman's defne rig, she's amazing in scram sha, great stuff, really pro working with her, feeling more worthy through that practice, just talking with her about IT doing things I maybe feel good about myself like there's a simple question. This is make me feel proud myself doing drugs or not doing drugs sometimes no, mostly IT was is not doing IT. I like, wow, i'm feeling Better and Better.

And then you know, two months later I found a partner like, oh, that coincidence? We know it's like because the discomfort in a moment of not doing the thing, I was easier LED me them to find a thing. I was Better.

And I I think was just like this. And you know, work myself, the relationship and all these things, like giving million dollars kend. IT was like, I can make a book that's going to help people. You have done a time and time, and i've held all these people.

And then finally, facing IT in doing IT, I was like, and I think that kind of message myself, the book we can do IT, whether you from a small town in, in, in north england, right, or ever, we all can face, these are things that we can all live these great lives. So just, are we willing to face? H and I think most people can just like, okay, what can you do today to face IT and how do you start that right now?

The magic you are looking for is in the work of avoiding.

I know, but I just want to get around IT. Yeah and eventually you can, you can. But I think when you I think the question you said earlier is so interesting because I don't think about am I reaching my potential anymore. I don't doesn't even cross my mind. I don't wonder .

if I am or not. I could you. So this is a really good question, and i'm glad I got to talk to you about IT. Can you transact that concern about whether or not and reaching my potential? Or can you move to one side and dispense with that if you haven't done something that gives you a sufficient amount of validation externally from the world?

What i've noticed is that there's never enough. He is in therapy with the a new therapies. And he's like, one is IT enough. If you had all that fame, what's gona change nothing? So we have to change something else. And so what i've recognize for everyone out there is what's something that matters to maybe the podcast, maybe it's a relationship, maybe threading a book, maybe to be a good father and that so part one is something you want, whatever ever would get their own desires. And part two is putting to work on IT.

And what is when people put the work? Most work, can you tell you? The work is like doing IT and doing IT and doing IT and doing and all the things for most proud of ourselves are always the hardest.

I would stuff you're proud of. I think I would bet a lot of money in your proud the show. And why? Because you did IT when no one was watching, you stuck your ask with IT.

You kept going and going and yeah, now there's some resorts for but I I think even if that was not as big, I think it's still proud because you did things that was something was chAllenging yeah. And I think that's true for most things that all of us recognized that we'd ever said that our potential or not, we're just were proud. And so how do we build up more than internal validation, mostly, again, things you want and things that you work taron.

But this, again, this comes back to that question. Can you take pride in internal validation without external validation? As so is the naval court, where he says, IT is easier to achieve our material desires than to announce them. And h not you to say, um I don't care about driving beat up toyota Carola picks my last cos a fri it's way easier to do that.

It's easier to say, you know i'm really happy to settle down with my girlfriend and and do this thing after you've been pumping at the playboy mention you know I have A I A friend um who was a pick part is for a long time and I remember asking him a question about to really into this picker partition ry thing that was a revolving door of checks right? And like this, you're really, really passionate about this thing is like, yeah, yeah, I am my future wife. Better to be thankful for all of this.

Hi, please explain to me how you have somehow laid the feet of your future wife. All of the efforts for you to spray IT across the north of england at the moment he's like, well, know, when I with my future wife and walking down the street without two and a half kids in a golden retriever, I don't ever want to look at two brazilian chicks and think I wanna know what it's like to fuck two brazilian chicks I wanted have ticked off all of the different things that i've got to do all the way down. And although that I think was quite largely just cope, reverse engineered cope, there's something true in IT, which is we need to prove a lot of the time we need the world to tell us that we are enough before we can say to ourselves. And maybe some of the billionaire you spoke to a really far down that spectrum where there is basically no amount of world saying yes, well done, that they can get to before or maybe would be a true one hundred trillion or whatever you inning at yourself for themself.

They never get to open where they can save for themselves. It's like i'm with my partner now. She's amazing.

I don't question having more because I have enough and I do think, yeah, I think you have to try things out. It's like, yes, you can learn your first boyfriend. Yes, you can do those things and you can work too.

But try think on life experiment, find the job that i'd try to date of that suck. Try work for the people got fired. So I got to find another way.

And so at at this point I don't yeah we D I don't think about finding another personal that, oh, men, I love to have sex more you like. I'm really deeper with this one person. There's I don't know if it's exter product bi Brown. It's like if you want variety relationships, you are this quote you want of a inning relationship date. One person .

that's good, good. I do what I was single like it's good.

And there are sure to that, right? We think we need more of these experiences, and I think it's good to get them. But sometimes you find something and you have to know, like if you hire someone, we never any of the people have to know how good they are.

And I think with a lot of these experiences we talk about take iowa or doing anything. I got IT IOS ask a few times years ago, influenced by opery talking him about IT. And I think the whole point of I osa that I learned afterwards, it's not, I was gona crying in the puck.

I was like, well, I was a hard, I can do IT that was a takeaway, not whether, yes, I recognize things about my stepfather and things about my my biological father and other areas, but ultimately as like, well, I could something and we all can and then we can overcome IT IT. Doesn't matter whether you're already a millionaire, whether you're a zero on air, right? But it's that you can do these things. And I don't think people, I don't know, I don't know people recommend that they have more Billy than they can do. And that's when when they asked a question, I think they know the answer when they like, do you ask yourself.

are you eating your potential? Be a pretty regularly yeah i'm still pretty rough with myself about falling short of some arbitrary le that i've met like some bar that I should have got over some something that I should have done um it's Better than IT was, but there's still a lot of that to be deprogrammed, but i'm also in therapy. So you know that's that's helping.

I mean, that's that's another interesting thing that the people just there is a lot of fear around uncertainty. And we don't know we don't know what's coming next and we don't know if we can deal with IT and we don't know if we're going to be good enough. We don't know who are worthy of love, an acceptance, and we use observable metrics in place of metrics.

So the best observable metric in the world is money, single, single numerical value, which can be translated across the entire world, most standing. Or you've got five million dollars. I know what is in, yes, I know is in ounds.

Best is the best game in the world, but people will often trade observable metrics s the hidden metrics. And the hidden matrix will be something like a piece of mind, quality, relationships, amount of sleep. That's a big one.

Like all of these things, bringing the hidden into the observable is something that i'm trying to do an awful lot. Now I got my trading my sanity for accolade and trading my piece of mind for status. Or am I trading?

But the thing that you're saying, especially from your old clip, which I love about successor, also hope to get you where you are course. And so how do you continue maybe don't get to do that. And that's okay too.

there. Do you know joe hudson? No, I love Johnson. He has a core cal connection course phenomenon is got a great show to, uh, art of accomplishment.

And one of the things that i've taking this course of my girlfriend is that, and that's OK. That s just that phrase, and I see this phrase all the time. Hey, I don't know this answer.

That's okay. Hey, what helps you do what you're doing maybe isn't how you can do the future. That's okay. And so I wonder for you, IT doesn't have to also be you're going to solve IT immediately.

I don't think, king, I was thinking about this morning about a lot of successes, patients and not just patients in time, it's patients with ourselves. I got observe like k, it's probably gonna out. Let's be little patient and not make IT so hard along the way. So I I wonder and cares how you're going .

to evolve yeah, me too. IT IT has been significantly Better which I got speaks to just how like unrequited I was for a very long time. I felt like I wasn't.

I was built for more. I felt like I was built for more, and I hadn't fulfill my potential and that I should, if only I had. And worked harder, taking that chance, done the thing, but been less afraid, been more brave, be more courageous.

But whatever IT is that I needed to do, if only I done that thing, I would have got the outcome that that I wanted. And that was that was like a very sort of powerful. You're not you're not doing enough good enough, whatever IT might be really, really strong motivation for a long time.

And then it's interesting when you get to decide to go, okay, well, how much is enough because that's a question. And this sort comes back to the people that have achieved success or accumulated welfare, whatever they can suffer with all of the same mental melodies that the person at the bottom right of the later kind as well. But the differences, they look up and there's only two more wrongs.

So they're like, hey, if the answer isn't there or there, whether fuck is IT and that's something that, again, this sort of champagne problems, ideas, why i'm kind of obsessed at the moment that the lack of sympathy that everybody but myself included, gives to all you know, such in such a rich person complained about the fact that the food was called in first class on the way from dubai to to use whatever you know. But it's like, I understand, I understand why that's such a like ludi ous position to be in. But if we assume that people who have money in status aren't necessarily always happier than the average person, in fact, what got them there might be exactly the reason that they aren't happier than the average person. If if people took more of a baLanced view about how they perceived the downstream effects of wealth and status and the attention, I think that IT would disappoint SE. A lot of people who think that they want that of presuming that the answer is on the other side of IT present.

that once I get there solved not what I thought like once I get rich or be happy, that's not the case. And what I noticed, someone like yourself, where you start to show cause you love IT and you create this prison that you may be not love and then you are undervaluing the reason you started IT ne're like, oh, I love IT again, it's so funny, man. right.

And and part of the journey, there's nothing wrong with that. That's not a right or wrong to do that. I would say it's nice to be rich and hf problems than porn, half problems because at least there's a little bit options. If you if you have money or you have your own business, which everyone can do, at least you can maybe hire someone to talk you about IT or maybe you can not do meetings for weeks or months or years.

And you've spent a lot, a lot of money on coaching. You mentioned that yeah, early on. yeah. How much money do you spend .

on coaching collectively with myself and the team? At least a million, at least million dollars in coaches.

And what things .

have you worked on? So an hour before this meeting, I was with our CFO coach. So she's the forma C F.

phone. The coaches ee higher. They've done. They've they're looking ahead and they've been ahead.

I like people have been in the game that I want to, that I would like to be at. So he was a fool. Mt, champ, after free from my champ.

You know, this solved for twelve billion. And so she's advising us on A R V P. I finding to quit again.

Problems still happen to matter what, how you want to respond them. I think I, my twenty year old self was very emotional and reactive. Now the only difference, I still can be reactive.

But I pause and then I respond. So she's A A coach that we hire, ava therion, and that's what we worked on really about pausing. And I write myself every single week.

Last week of four, I got up triggered. So I rate myself on my consistency and emotional behavior one to five every weekend and why? And just having at every single friday helped.

Four of that seems good.

Four was not bad. But someone of my, I do. Youtube offers for the book launch in the sky was complaining about abydus rab share. And like, did you don't know a rip here? And I was just like, and then I pause after trigge.

I was like, oh, I don't want to behave like that and that's okay, means I did that, but that means that next, next week can improve. IT before is not bad. That's much Better than the past.

So that's therapy. So therapy worked on pausing, responding of work, on being alone. I just don't like being alone, like being active. And so, you know, it's not to say I should go force myself to live in a cabin, a woods, but on a saturday afternoon, it's a noon. How can I just be happy being with noa?

How can I just be OK and to read the wall street journal or discover her bike ride or just be at home? And it's OK not to have to distract myself and that let me than to feel more happy just being with myself. I've A C E O coach, ema eda.

He's the former C. E. O of a suma. And so a lot of my strength to stork has been maxed.

A one my god, love starting as only on wicket. Are you starting with quick time? Aim in superpower's consistency aim's.

Like, what's working? okay? Make IT work Better. Like even a month ago I went to amin.

I said, ayman, we've got this tidy cw product. I don't if you it's a colony alternative. So it's twenty nine dollars for a life instead of twenty dollars a month.

I like aim and the things doing super great to blown up. David, in the team that are running IT is an awesome. We're going to do something new, things like, alright, so you have the thing that's working really great and you want to do a new thing.

You think you want to do a new thing or maybe just keep doing thing that's great, make that work Better? I like there is your money. I'll setting your pair invoice relate right away.

So he's a lot of um you know I think higher to your higher to your weaknesses. And so he's a lot of the consist I have a business coach then so he's more strategic, have a business coach. So that stand cut from remote di o anyone have a great podcast, great book and dan's arts.

Annoying is always asking about my feelings. I like good short time of my fears about the business. So like I know but I know how your feelings are. Packing the business is like shop um so a lot of IT you know for instinct I was feeling very disconnected from the leadership team of like what hello we do in this quarter and he's like, what if you don't know, do you think that the us leadership knows? And I like no.

And so then literally the next day, this is two weeks ago, next day we put together one pager, which is like, what's the one? What's the exact thing we're doing in q one? So that we know the leadership he knows in the rest of team knows.

And a lot of that is just him expLoring how feeling about the business of things are going to personal life. A lot of business is a projector who you are direct, like you, with the lighting for the show, got on projection crisis preferences about how things go. And your business is gonna reflect good or bad, who you really are not good or bad.

but just reflect you are. Yeah, this is a very interesting uh, signature. The trickles down from whoever at the top of the business down. So we is so funny running, running night life stuff because the owners, the organisations tend to be very flat. So the owners is snowberry close to the ground floor of what I was going on.

And we would be able to walk down the street, and without looking at the company on the back of the hoddy that the person was wearing, just by the way, that they were dressed, we would be able to work out, out there from Juliana, there, from vu, which was our company there from, like the posh kids, one there from this, one there from that. And we would just be able to tell because there, this signature that the kind of came from the top down and IT was the same in the marketing copy, was the same in the way that the events were run. IT was the the way that the DJ were back was the same in the way that the entry pricing was done.

There was some companies like us that would be overcomplicated in some ways with we would have tier pricing and we d have all of this extra stuff that would be put in to be others that wouldn't even remember to increase their pricing. Then we'll some that were cheap and there were some that we're expanded. And so as a so this just IT IT really is is IT James clear that says a running a business is a vehicle for personal growth disguise. Ed, as a wealth making enterprise.

I think about best way to know about yourself is starting a business. And I always think you got me think about toilets.

Obviously, I have a super nice thing .

about the way like rich life japanese yeah the total is like a six thousand dollar toilet and everyone to go and get actually staring at at this toilet okay, point though, I like, I like on the bathrooms or restaurants and businesses and then you can like uh, how much attention that they pay to. I don't think that to be all the details of a screw that does not mean, but um this is what they think about their business.

And so I always faster people meet people from APP mo and like, hey, some guide today was like a mital from map. M, he's great. I like, I know I love Mitchell too.

He's like my little optimism, Angel. And it's interesting about the people around. And you know, the way we represent business represents us. I think business are great way to learn about ourselves for the coaches. I guess if I had the theory and whether I approached IT is what are the areas for myself and really anyone that I like to improve? And just go pay someone for the ten thousand hours you could pay someone five hundred box, two hundred fifty books, a thousand box an hour for for literally ten thousand hours of experience.

So as a marketing adviser, many glasto simo glaston up here and a lot of the times it's I thought about this because it's a lot of the stuff I don't want to hear, because if you thought you could do everything, you ouldn't an advice or you ouldn't need a coach. And I think they're some people like god don't do IT in coaching. It's like, are every sport seem ever in the world has a coach? And we have teachers out to school. But when we get out, we're like now I will get out figured out OK. How does that make sense?

What is the difficult? A couple of the reasons why I think coaching is sometimes hard for people because is up front, but the returns are down the line. It's very difficult verify.

It's very difficult ify whether or not this person actually is going to give you the sort of returns that you want out of something. Um does no coach stop me? You know yellow pages yeah rating for this stuff.

It's always by word of mouth and referral and bent pieces. And if you do end up getting burned or disappointed, perhaps by one, that then starts to sort of smear the rest of the coaching world. So I I understand why people are reticent about doing IT. I should be Better at IT. I should be Better leaning in um what would you hire?

So by the way, I think no matter what, we just we self we self preservation hier, we self preserve.

No matter what country added a business coach, I won't shot him out because it's horrible, but it's ten thousand dollars a day and he this guy like he's polymers and just as will work shit, know stuff, a lot of people and remember afterwards, because I was so lost and I just want someone to tell me what to do you and the main thing I took away from him, he's like, no, you know this this twenty three thousand dollars because I harder for two and a half days he's like, that twenty three thousand dollars you gave me could have been in your pocket that was, that was my takeaway where I wanted something and meaning that the money of my business is mine, right? So I need be mindful of using IT. Maybe i'm giving IT to him.

Maybe i'm good to others. But I think in almost every single time, whether you have a coach you like or don't like, you're learning, you're learning something. Ideally you're doing in with someone who's done the thing and there like that i've done IT. I can ideally share you how you to do IT and you're getting .

through referral too. Yeah, I think one of the areas that people get into get something else, i'm kind of obsess by the moment, is believing that our situation is unique, particularly unique. No, no. But you don't understand because me the way that everyone together for me that you would not do, you would I would take ten thousand hours just to begin to understand this, you know.

And it's because I had this idea on the on the live talk where if there was a cookie here on the edge of this couch, and I decided I was about to make the decision whether not tweet inside of my mind when I looked toward that cookie. This unholy war begins between two different versions of myself in this battle plans and platoons. And someone has got to drag in, and there's a catapult and stuff.

And then the Better version of myself succeeds. And I don't eat IT to liven another day. If you'd seen me do that, what you'd you've seen is some block start to cock for a while and then turn away.

Looking hungry and sad are in experience of ourselves. And the external of observation of other people are so asmai c that everyone else sucks like a rational agent, and we look like a wavering idiot permanently. You've as late ten thousand times a second, but that person just seems like they go about their day from thing to thing.

And even if they trip over the kind of meant to do that to like, and because of that, we IT obviously IT feels like our issues are so personally cursed to us. IT feels like A A designer disease meant just for us. It's only me that has this very specific way of life basting myself or speaking to myself. It's only that has this very specific fear about relationship, about changing or about moving or about the about my whatever is because nobody else cutting it's, I think, because you only ever going to experience your own consciousness.

IT also gives them an excuse if they're unique. That gives them a reason to say, well, i'm unique and it's so hard than it's obviously not solved. But if you know, like my book starts with frequently made excuses, why? Because when you realize that most of the things you you've avoided or actually very solvable, like how should I actually can be sold, I can stop having to be a victim in the situation.

What are the frequently made excuses?

I don't have any business ideas. I don't have. I have too many business ideas, which is tolling the moon.

A, I don't have a technical co founder. I don't know how to do marketing. I don't have money.

How do I use AI? Those are definitely, I think that's top seven. And I look to the book for another three. And these are one that are super cut, by the way, to quick shut out, I ve also hired a health coach. Know there's help. There's little coaches for everything figure out which coaches you need and know have a ash coach boxing coach but I ash for sure ah shut up you squash barcelo um but my my body to the doc m and I worked with him for years and now how I interrupt food, how to rect my self feeling about food, has been changed permanently for that experience.

It's fun. It's fun to think that there are people out there who have answers to the questions that you think are unanswerable.

Remember with up to o so one of my best friends is Andrew chan. He's like a big show. H Andrew, yeah, yeah. And so I love Andrew and he's very strategic and he always been helpful.

And remember with up sumo and trying to innovate our hr stuff, and i'm trying to innovate our sale stuff, and I trying to innovate our programing, trying to innovate our marketing. And he is like, why do you try to anyway, just one thing most of that should have figured out and find one thing innovate on. And the other nine.

Could probably just copy other people who solved IT, for instance, even in a silly example, Jenny, whose are a super adviser, she's like, I have to got job rucks. You know how to write your whole brand new job. You can use ChatGPT ford but she's like, here's the criteria that I look forward to hire A V P. Finance like it's not Better to be innovative from hard.

Yeah yeah. Yeah what .

culture would .

do you higher today? Uh, someone for the business, I think um I need to build out the I I hesitate even calling an organza because it's not IT was just supposed to be me talking on on the inter net. Do you start talking to people and then IT accidentally becomes a job? And then before you know you, like all this, i've got like sixteen fucking reports.

I have sixteen direct reports. So like our organisation is this very, very flat two dimensional octopus with sixteen fucking in legs on IT. And then a couple of more the trickle, trickle up some of those legs. So for me, like I can't we can't keep, we can't keep doing this. And there's only one person that's the herb in the middle of the rest of IT r is what do I need?

Do I need a cmo? Do I need C E O? Do I need the chief staff? Do I need A C O? Do I need the right hand? Do I need an enforce? Do I need someone? And do I need a second youtube p strategies? Do I need third youtube p strategies? Do I need someone that just copy? What about somebody that helps to sit on top of, you know, I mean, and again, it's the belief that your situation is sufficient, unique, that nobody else could would be able to understand there? No, of course not. And in the sum regards, the world of you know like independent creator is relatively new, but they're also going to be an awful lot of rules and procedures that you can just be that yeah but I mean, it's very similar to x established business has been run fifty years and there's the playback from that and we just chink turn this things slightly and IT slots to right away.

What's the voices in your head like?

Frantick sometimes, but I meditate a lot as well, so I goes away. Excited encouraging.

Like there's A A degree of trepidation, which is another thing that kind of interesting before you've got to any.

Until you kind of raised yourself up out of some mid quadrant of like where almost everybody is may be beyond what most people quit, but still where most people end up.

The pressure is still like in some ways, a little bit lower because you go, well, you know, if this thing doesn't work, or if you don't really sort of fulfill stuff now, what is IT matter? But when you go like, oh, this could really be a serious shot at something very special here. I genuinely believe that we make the most beautiful podcasts on the planet.

We make the most beautiful podcasts that have ever been recorded. I want to keep doing that. I want to keeping world class of the things that we do.

But that comes with its own degree of pressure, right? This is no longer little leagues. This is now, oh, you you said that you wanted to become one of the best in the world of doing this thing. You realize the Price that you need to pay to be able to do that, realize how hard you going to have to work, to realize how much attention to detail you going to have to pay all the rest of IT. So one of my end of your reviews are one of the questions that I ask for myself for this areas.

Can you be well class and have fun at the same time? So that's something that i'm thinking about, know of a lot like I want to still dot every I across every tea, but I want to have fun along the way because, you know and this is one of the beautiful things about people reflecting like yourself opening up about anger in your twenties, or or right, opening up about fear during the process of a writing his book. But you get to see, you get to see the pitfalls that other people nearly tumbled into.

And by looking at that, you go HMM. That kind of sounds a lot like how I feel, and maybe if that's how this person, that's five or ten years along the road for me says, and if I can kind of imagine me as them, well, maybe I can find a way to bring some of that learning and wisdom down into the present. And there may be even avoided.

Maybe I can mitigate what they did. And you know their insights can help me to expert ite my growth and my and my progress. So yeah, that's that's i'm thinking about this year can to be world class and have fun .

at the same time you got me reflecting next you're sharing. You know, I think sometimes people think the kitchens clean. A lot times kitchens messy. What they see is the they see the dish. But I don't see .

what's really going .

on like couples. I can tell there's couples that I want to be like them divorced, they're horrible together. Maybe this is bad, but you don't really know what's going on in uh in these different experiences.

And you know want to think that every person can do is get out your phone watching youtube or podcast, just grow up on your photos, go back up or down. I almost everybody, I think if they do IT at least how I phone was, like, ww, i'm proud of myself. And think if you actually just scroll back and like, look good on a cold shit that I did, yeah, just look at where you are today.

And I think if we can give ourself a little bit of kinds and Grace anyway to see the photos, I can go back if you like. I went, looked at my old house, and I think this house represents me everything where I was, where it's eight hundred square feet. It's a literally falling down to just a got flooded few days ago from the freeze.

And I was like, don't care. And I went back and i've seen IT in the photos and something I like a, well, i'm proud of how far i'm come. I'm proud of the house i'm now and who I think I am today not to see what others think, but I think and that that does take time. And I think we also just if you see in your old fotos like why I am already making progressive IT doesn't .

feel like IT yeah I always said elan musk with neurotic can may make this happen.

But i'd love for that to be away, for you to go back in time in your own mind, not to go back in time to a different place, but to be able to revisit the texture of your own existing from ten years ago or twenty years ago, and think, what was the sort of things that captured my attention? What was the Normal rythm and cats of my daily existence? Like what did I think about? But I think it's .

also crazy because is that the story's change over time, we change the our own narrative by the day of IT or when you ask me or a year and like all the service is actually this is like was IT or am I shifting IT to create the narrative of that working best for me in my life?

I dude, I mean not you know whose sam .

of says he must do sounds.

Remember he had consulting doc m so that the reindeer, he not to school docs com S K.

O O L big online .

market to go. Anyway, I was at some like neuro divergent to generate retreat in the middle, the desert.

What does that mean? Neurodiversity.

a drug autistic group of degenerate people. And we were all just catching up. And at some creative, some business people, he was really cool to be onest.

And I knew about them for a long time, and I knew what he did, and we got chance to have a catch up. And I asked him about why to stop making content. And he been pretty prolific at he of this, like forty eight floor penthouse apartment with a motorcycle in IT overlooking float the ceiling.

Glassman is in new york at some big city like that. And he said he'd found that the story he was putting out publicly was one that he'd begun to feel the need to live up to privately, that he had created this narrative about being the guy with the motor ycl in the window and about this is what I do. And whatever, whatever.

Alex becker is a good example of who alex is yeah so alex, who just high ross hydras, he's been the cell of my possessions and go living in apartment we'd like just to a mattress on the floor guy he's now even got rid of that. He's sleeping on the floor and the like fitness guy and now the whatever whatever guy and I do think a lot about um because everyone's doing this, everybody has a public facing persona. Everyone's got a social media can my mom has won, my dad has won a summer god and feeling the need to live up to the public persona that you are putting out there in private.

First time i'd ever heard anyone say i'm still thinking about what that means to mean. Now I like, you know, back in in this really interesting reflection on IT for six months. But yeah, that was very formative, very, very unique insight. I thought I was very useful.

Yeah, if you may be my girlfriend. Remember the first time game meter in barcelona? We spent half to hear there and had like a multimillion dollhouse.

And I ve got to show, because i've lived so cheap and so crappy for twenty years that finally I got a sick house. But I can, I, I can't believe that every day like this so cool. I remember bring up the house like, oh yes, SHE you found all my baby .

this you don't have to worry .

about who I am inside. Look at my external avoidance like .

the motorcycle in the .

window score. I've seen .

you on that going around the last yeah yeah yeah yeah White vesva.

I got stolen en from my front yard that was doing from front yard jesus, remember he came in the house and I was just like. Nothing SHE didn't say shit and remember, you know this just start dating and a few months later was like you're the first person ever to come into the house and was not impressed and just like I wasn't, it's a nice house and I I like all you know the the stuff it's cool, like it's nice, but I just care who you are.

The best part about the .

house is you to avoid in the past years, I think that's finding a partner just looking for me. She's not looking for me to be anybody else so interesting and that that's been a terms of a game changer from a baseline models being with her game changer .

yeah because you don't have this sort of if I lose IT, what if anxiety that sank behind you if you'd gone like dambulla an route and everyone is kind of just that for the .

experience he just cares to I am enables me to feel I can just be myself.

Do you ever feel resentful that the efforts and fruits of your labor monetarily isn't more sort of like wide died? So so I think you know, I mean, because I think this apart, I sometimes think about me, me and some of my other friends as well. And I think that there's a part in men that wants that look at my resources I ve acquired like he kind of want that to be a bit of like in a panty drop in results from that. Yeah, I mean, I think we want our .

fathers to acknowledges a lot of the time. But I never I went to my dad, he was on, he was going to dying. Who was dark, was just drink and beer and I was like, a minimum dollars.

He's like, okay, I call a man good job. Like, that's a hit. And then, you know, I think over time I was thinking about my youtube videos where, you know, we get videos, got a million views.

But my favorite video, still, I only know I think he has like ten thousand views and it's about a Fishermen. This guy, nick, from florida, he's a millionaire Fishermen. And I just loved that he makes one is fishing. And I wanted to make a story about him.

And I think that kind of the lesson where you get going and you find the thing you enjoy and there's a baLance of what the world wants, right? Because if you do what you and now wants IT like that, you're not kind of a business or not have any audience. But I was proud of that.

And I think with with mathew, my partner as I am more with her just being more okay with myself. And yeah, I think I would have like to have money. I I thought we need get money straight up. This is rota.

I thought your money, like all these people come and all the girls come and all the stuff energy didn't right, is still just you alone in a house? Yeah, you can have party and connect distractions, but it's still just you by yourself. And that's amazing.

That is lucky that I had that chance I I thought I was have a great didn't and then it's like I will i'm so myself have to find a way to enjoy this life on this planet that, by the way, no knows what fuck we're doing here. No one, anyone who tels you others SE for shit. And yeah, the money didn't fix who I was. I definitely now was easier. Some feeling good about myself.

and the journey was, yeah.

I think all these cliche as the market, all the more like the cliche. Ation is all true.

bill, right? This god, this court, he says, money is like gasoline on a road trip. You need enough to keep going. But you're not doing a tour of gas stations either.

That's good. Bill rally said that, yeah, that's good stuff. You yeah, nothing ever came.

There's no party. No one ever cares. Everyone cares about themselves. IT has been nice. I think part of this, this book to our stuff, even this been special, how it's creating a kind of excuse go hang out people and excuse to connect people, talk about different ideas, whether it's self worth with other business, which really is what you said about from all you like to go with out our games to learn about yourself and all businesses been that like how my interacting with other people. How's IT when someone leaves me like my dad left me, or someone that's a tema leaves me and just chances to in approve to ourselves who can who we can be. And I think that's not talk about where people like people can be a lot more than they realize, but they have to realize that is even possible.

And if you get started on IT, you said starting a business isn't risky. Working a day job that sucks is risky. Why is that the case?

You're original thing. The number one question said you got from people is how do you know releasing my potential? If you ask that question, you're not releasing your potential, just question.

And so for me, being at intel in a cubicle with gray walls, having to be dressed up going ATM felt risky that this is the next four years of my life, knowing that there is probably something else I could be doing that I really want to do. And it's listening to that voice or that is my evolo tina girlfriend. Listen to that feeling, acknowledging IT and then maybe embracing a little bit about fear, leaning into IT.

And doesn't mean if they quit the job, I never quit jobs to go sort of business. I thought I was risky. It's starting IT at night, night, weekends when ever to get IT going, and then when IT works, then quit.

But I i've seen this guy, there's a getting rick. And this is the thing I I think is not recognize. There are so many ordinary people being rich.

I think people think it's like some special ability. You have to be tall or you have to be now, or people be rich. But they start, and most people just done.

And there's a guy, rick, and remember, we'd in these meetings at intel, all we do with meetings then to shit at the Scott and I don't know business and rick, I always was like, man, you are so more he's so much smarter than me. He's more impressive to me. But he was afraid to find out who he could become and only he could do that night.

And I, he talked to about his a get the other things that I probably wanted do. But i've got socket practice at five, and I want to be there for my kids, which is great, but that means you can spend a thirty your life in which you didn't want to do. And so how do you start planting seeds like I planted six, fourteen years ago that I finally, I am really, truly enjoying today.

And I felt risky. I really spent that ten, twenty, thirty, forty years in an area like, I don't want to be here and what's crazy that was on the other side, there are engineers until fucking love IT. So like i'm building chips, which is great til it's finding that thing for yourself. So you're not feeling like I am going to spend ten years and then finally enjoy life at sixty. That to me in fun crazy, which know of what we tell most people to do.

James smith, my business bonder in the drinks, says, if you're succeed at a job that you hate, imagine how could you be at one that you love. And that's that, you know so many people, especially where I went to university, is a lot of sort of recruitment.

You know these guys who are on a twenty twenty grand, twenty five ground based salary with pretty good bonuses and its sales like hard court sales they doing recruit for I T or construction or whatever is they're not placing super hind net worth individuals, but they like garden, they doing the thing and that fucking destroying IT, mostly because they were trained by me, my business partner, in in nightlife, but also because they're very, very talented. And we found these kids that are just driven and they want to do things, but lots of them like, love the money, hate the job, and I do like the money is the easy thing. Like you can replace that skills that with something that so much more job like, think about how you hate the thing you do and you're driven by the thing you get. You still get the thing you get, but the thing you do wouldn't something that you loved as well. Imagine if you had double drive that fight, nico boost in too fast to.

well, IT sounds like with you in the past, there's no reason for wherever quick because you enjoy IT. And I doing that on a business. I I think one of things from from the the youtube channel in a million dollar weekend was how many different ways in the rich.

And I think people think there's like some secret door or there's some secret course. Is there just not? But it's about getting started on the podcast, putting out the episode about asking someone to be a customer fighting something people actually want. And I guess what if you do that you enjoy to you can do this as of your career? I don't know, people realize as possible, know I see these people like, no, I didn't have to be this way and you could change IT today.

He is hard to think, because so much of my life has been around people that are self employed, that have online fitness coaching or then business coaching for online coaches, or selling courses, or or being doing whatever, right. So many people were failure, renegade self employed people over and over, over again, until they found something that work.

And sometimes some people didn't but IT was so obvious to me that that was just a route that was available. The I I never really questioned IT as as something and yeah if the that I didn't think about that, I didn't think that some people believe that there is a secret doorway in between them and being their own boss, then in between them and starting their own business. Nothing like, hey, guess what? If you fucked in love dogs, if you absolutely love dogs, there is a dog walking business that you will adore every single second dolf.

and you will crush.

and you'll care more about the dogs than the competitor who's just doing IT for the money and all that you'll do all day. Spend time with awesome animals that you love, and you'll make great money on your own terms, doing something that you get to choose. And then maybe the high and staff, and then you'll love the dogs as well.

And then maybe you set up a sanctions that maybe you get to be able to contribute to a charity as well. And maybe you can take him take in dogs and may be he becomes a canal. Maybe you even roll this out and IT becomes the. The premier dog care franchise in england or something that sounds exciting.

And even if you don't want to make IT bit like the Michael gob is the most visited, even if you don't want like go full, I don't know how to bake cake anymore as the lady that the Bakery thing he gets spend every day with dogs and. A question would be, if it's so easy, why isn't everybody else doing IT? And that question is both the question and the answer to the question.

You know, I mean, like that is the selection effect that stopping most people from doing IT? Because most people think if IT was that easy, everybody would be doing IT. But you don't realize that the feel that you feel is precisely the selection criteria that stopping everybody else from doing IT as well.

Yeah, one of my favorite tes of my body, adam, is like a discomfort is your compass. So maybe noticing where there's a little fear and then thinking about if I went into that fear, what would happen and where would I be on the other side of that fear? You know, I love doing a finish year. Sounds like something you're doing on the review. But if you had to end this year, where would you like to be? And then you can literally create I few years I write like beyond your rogan show and you read all these crazy fantasies and you like, I think when you realize that I could be true, at least gives you the belief you could be in these different levels IT sounds like you in in myself fare both born pretty midd class that no.

no, no. Very.

very working class, working class. Okay, I was going middle class. And so you think I get some stuck here, then you starting other people, maybe listen to your show, maybe realized that things like um maybe there's some other levels of what I can do and what i've noticed from so many people who inspired to be millions.

And for me, I expect never to have someone control my livelihood and take away that, which is you can, when you have a job in that, if you, anna, be there, what's the thing you can do? The data actually make that happen. They don't ever make a meeting because they're like, how do I just get one dollar there? Like, what about this? What I don't worry about.

Event, what can you do today? Can you help one person today in a service? Can you post one podcast? Can you post one video? And i've even done myself just to show IT. Like the best way to tell anything is to get happy customers or prove IT. So uh, two weeks ago, I like people.

I didn't use any social media, which by the way, you can cheat your social media user emails, use your context in your phone and I let I said, give me some business ideas from the audience, and i'll could do prove IT. So I tried knocking on doors and just asking me, if I can mother alone? I just went door to door in awesome n taxis.

Can I go on now? Who are you? No, this is hard.

Is our easier way. Yeah, that's a whole point. If it's not working, great. Let's finding people are excited for you to service them on because just because you want to do IT doesn't mean people want to pay for IT. That's a big business conception.

But finding people who are excited to pay for so then was like, what's another problem? Have paying for software? Hey, I don't like subscriptions.

That's what I have similar. So started contacting people that anybody who emailed me a docs, you know, doc yi, I looked through my gmail. And I like, I hate dockyard, I descriptions hate using.

Let me look at anyone who has ever emailed me a document de and contact them. So I just call people. I called my account. I called people who use work up. I called the boys to pay for.

called a being friends with you must be a fucking in nightmare .

don't ever enter my call is like.

no is outside what is this time is got a bucket in a sponge pretend is no I ens ee and .

what you know, to be clear, you know, my neighbor, I asked him lawn, he said, no. And then I went to him and I touch this idea. He said, now.

And you asked, like, what's holding people back to fear? And the fear failure, the fear rejection, is the fear of who they can become. And we make these things so fucking scary.

Oh my god, do oh my god. They say, no, it's overall i'm not and worthless. I'm not good enough.

I have my potential. Or if you practice IT, they say no, you're like that's IT. There's only girls like out of skill, but there's no business book out there.

Why are people, everyone getting? And because these fears have stopped them. And when you practice so I like coffee chAllenge. You're in my coffee chAllenge stuff.

Just ask for coffee.

ask for a discount h discount .

I so will you anything to do with the hundred days of rejection thing?

Are we was the agent guy. There is a bunch of people talk about rejection therapy. This is the one that that I I used talk about on the book that I found the most life changing because of you.

What is? And so we talk about the fear starting. We talk about the fear success, talk about the fear of asking. And so you can go out today and any time you buy a coffee or newton's or ever don't do for your brand, but other businesses in person, you ask your team son off, that's IT.

You just go up and you have to commit for you going and anyone who's watching if you wanted change your life to commit to this. Just one thing is simple, silly, easy. And either people will say why i'm experienced in sales, great that will be easy for you or i'm really afraid, great, that i'll mpower you to feel good about yourself.

And when you go and after the discount, you say, I want ten percent off to say, why can say, oh, no cagan nine doors weekend. Or you can say nothing, make IT harder in yourself. And the beauty of IT is the reject to you.

And you realize the fear that we created about these things, about what they thought about these strangers, about this doesn't matter, and the reality about our ego and separating out from this horrible experiences that, wow, IT wasn't so bad. huh? What else can I ask for? What else have I ve been afraid of that maybe is not so scared.

And you do IT in small, silly ways. Even today I was driving home. I do even, even doing a very easy way.

Compliment the compliment. chAllenge. Ask someone, hey, would you buy that shirt? Compliment them.

Hey, I like this guy. The car next. Hey, I like your shirt.

Would you get IT and he's like, he's smiles. He's so happy. He got, I got from goodwill. You like, seven dollars. He was so excited about IT.

Again, it's putting yourself alternative where you maybe get rejected, realize is not so bad and then you can move forward. And the more that people build this confidence, things is the same thing that we're talking about. Like starting the business is the best way to feel more confirmed about yourself.

You're helping other people. So with this doing business, my neighbor, he rejected me and I asked him to getting rejected to me, ask her to me, rejected, but I didn't take IT as him rejecting me. Just this is not helping him right now.

And out of the twenty seven people I contacted that day, I didn't make them buy anything. I didn't say, hey, i'm doing a video. I need to do this say, hey, here's something i'm excited about.

I think it's a million opportunity beyond dog sends eleven billion dollar business, which crazy and realized so big. Tell me about your problems. I listen to, they told me the problems.

interesting. I'm creating an alternative. What do you think about that? Oh my god. Yes, great.

Would you be willing to put down a deposit today? It'll be ready in thirty days. I made three thousand dollars in twenty four hours.

It's coming out for five nineteen. So come back to Reginald tion. Why are people doing? Because they think it's harder than IT and they're afraid of themselves. And so how do we do in stupid, silly ways? Maybe it's getting a dollar, maybe it's complimenting someone, maybe it's asking for a discount coffee doing IT.

And IT doesn't an you ever I don't get afraid, but IT doesn't an that gets easier and easier and easier and you get more confident and confident and confident than you realize, li said. All this is just me putting myself in a little bit of discomfort, which ultimately becomes fun at some point. IT doesn't become rejection such a bad thing and becomes a good thing.

yet overcoming the fear of projection or of asking for anything. It's kind of like a superpower. IT probably is.

I've got the hundred days of rejection therapy, a website open here, borrow one hundred dollars from a stranger, request a burger refill, asked for olympic symbol donuts, deliver peace of dominoes. Have a tour in a grocery store warehouse. Play soccer, someone else's backyard. Speak over costco. overcome. Get the number one spot in best by thanksgiving line sense stuff that sand to close through fedex s taken unregistered exam give five dollars to five rondon people be alive at manica at a crumbly borrowed dog from the humane society give a weather forecast on live t be difficult .

to I these are all extremism. I think to do this extreme, like go do this tons of things and again, and I think I can work, but I think for for business, business like a few you can to do over and over and over, like I was done someone a few weeks ago. I I wanted to do all these rejection and my discomfort challice. I did naked yoga and I just like, okay, and I just don't want to be naked with bunch of other guys do like push each other.

I'm not sure if this is me overcoming is .

that big fear? Just it's unclear. I don't want to do IT. But what I I think the bigger concept for most people, authors, how can you get started right now and stop avoiding the self, stop avoiding who you can become.

In the second part, I would say, is how do you practice asking in a controlled way that you can repeat over and to over again and get more comfortable with IT and realize this whole thing? There's a guy that son, he he was watching was talk with him. He did IT. And I already asked some question, would you learn about yourself? Is like, I made IT so much scared than I was, and I realized, now there are so many more things, but I can get what I want that to get what I am getting, because i'm asking for whether you want you, you want cheese off your pizza or you want a wife or you want to raise, or you just want someone to be your first customer or be your first podcast cast.

Have you read Normal mister nice guy by a doctor Robert lover a while ago? Yeah, he was on the show a couple of weeks ago. I'm still kind of digesting everything that he. He taught there and a lot of the stuff is in that as well. And lot of guys have been listened to show a lot of girls as well.

But especially for the guys, I think it's a degree of like extra embarrassment ramping a man whose not doesn't have the bravery to maybe go about and do this sort of the things. It's like a massu late, right? It's like like I should be. Not only am I not doing this thing, but also there's something weak of fragile around being the sort of man who doesn't. There's an extra layer of expectation, perhaps wherever that comes from .

the hood. I think you scared, yeah, right? Maybe I could protect you in the past, but now if you could face, I fear working, I can also get you. And again, I don't think IT has to be such an all or nothing mentality.

Not saying that's what you're saying and you don't have to do in this big dramatic way, create but practiced in simple ways like compliment and ask where they ve got to from or asked for this kind of coffee and then you realize you could go to another person. And so here I think you're really interesting like, tell me who you are and then well, that's an ask that eventually maybe you'll get and the same but you know dating, same with custom, all these things. And I I think when people realize is not as scary as they seemed, they realize there's much more elder for themselves than .

they expected earlier. No cagan, ladies and gentleman, million dollar a weekend. The surprisingly simple way to launch a seven figure business in forty years. Where should people go if they want to keep up to date with the stuff to edo?

This uh million dollar we can do com at no OK and everywhere it's onny. I've been telling people it's a business book wrapped in personal development allia. So it's like what an identification the book to everyone willing to take a chance of themselves.

And I think everyone can do IT. Anyone can be not sure. Everyone can not be an employer. Ric, have a risky day job and realizing that there's just more out there, men, and you can live whatever kind of life you want to live, but you do have to start and if you stick with IT, just like your show, and then eventually those compounded returns .

pay off and then five years later they'll replied, you remain can point yeah.

men, I think that know, you never know. You know, one of things I love about being public is you never know who you're going to run into. So not think about how you're interacting with other people you know with this book and in general, like one then god, I wasn't super rude to you back in the day I of the I read my responses, I was just saying, hey, I have a priority.

My priority was absolutely that's great. I'm okay with that. But being nice to other people and then also noticing, who can you text when you help? Who can you call on you help? And most the time is because you've helped them yeah so I I think about this especially now a lot like, you know, how might be my to help the other people out there where in the selfish world .

couple my friends that have been cancelled, said to me, you know here are real friends are because are the ones who pick up the phone before you ring them i'm in the cancellation hammer comes down dead the ones that ring you in like what can I do? How can I help? How can we make this Better as opposed to you ping, like, do IT, i'm strugling. Oh yeah.

And I saw that. I'm so sorry. What can be like? Very interesting.

Do you appreciate? I think this is, I think this is really, really great. I'm glad that it's taken five years.

I'm really glad really that that we want to get this done. I love the embodied vibe that you've got going on genuinely. Ly obviously done a ton of in a work, and I hope you continue to be a good role model. There should be more like integrated, successful business flowerlike psychiatrically and and like, you know, wishing wishing for your money to come to you and IT doesn't have to be hot nose like knows to the no to the ground done stuff yeah .

I think what of things I reflect on as i've done so much to get to this point, like with the therapy, with the coaching, with being alone, that's when is going to work through. And I think we also remember to keep doing the work, keep doing those things, like keep showing up for therapy, keep showing up for your coaching, keep showing up whatever does that help and you get to these places and being mindful, like is still serving you.

If not, okay, you can change IT. But I think it's very easy to be like unfeeling. Great this time.

See if there are no need to go to the gym anymore.

Don't need to do that. There be yes, right well, coast now. And you know, I think it's still showing up me stinging and still keep reinforcing the the positive self talk.

Then just been okay with that. Like if it's not great right now, guess what? You can improve IT. okay.

polio? no. I appreciate you. Thank you.

Much good to see you.