Chickenization: An Odd Lots Crossover
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Hello, i'd welcome to a very special classic episode of the money stuff flash bots buddhists I am now in and I had the money stuff calm for blender inie and i'm kd gry .

felt reporter for bloomberg news and an anchor for bomberg television.

And we have two very special guests in the studio with us today, kate.

Their names are joe wise all and Tracy away. Wo, this is very exciting.

I like the pause to build suspense case.

I've been told to pause and insignium slowly for gravitas. So working.

And yeah right.

strix.

For what is worth, Tracy and I like spent three years of all lots workshopping ways to introduce guests. And I know early the second time you've had external guest, so don't feel any my heart is counted, don't feel any anxiety about the guest. Do you remember how we used to do a Tracy?

Yeah, we used to pretend that neither of us or one of us didn't know what we were going to talk about. And I was like, guess what we're going to talk about? They didn't make any sense because, like, we clearly knew what we are going to talk about.

So how are we doing so far? Because I feel like it's not going super wine.

What are we going to .

talk about? Someone should .

make us here.

Let's talk about chickens. You guys obviously have a lot to say. You did a three part series on chickens recently, which was pretty cool because I feel like this was something different for you guys.

Yeah, every once in a while, we would like to shake things up and do something slightly different. Last year, we actually did a three part series on the rollout of new york's legal marijuana market called pot lots. This one was a three part series about chicken, and the code name for IT was squad lots. But the actual name was beat capitalism. And the idea was, you can actually explain a lot of really interesting themes in the american economy through the medium of chicken.

You just from like egg to chicken sandwich, or egg to chicken tender, or egg to make. No.

I speak for yourself.

There are just so many interesting, like the sort of premise. There are just so many really interesting things that can be discussed along that entire supply change. So whether it's avian flu and how do you keep the flock of the bird, whether it's concentration in the poetry market, whether it's the nature of the labor market, how the big poetry companies contract with independent growers and so forth, through out raise the tRicky to themselves, which is interesting. Then there's pressures about pricing into worth and then commodity Prices.

And then the chicken of the sand, which war is in the consumer experience of why top as versus panda express vers? However, there is a million different things, we even within all these things. So it's like we can learn a little something about how the economy works through that trajectory.

How did you decide? And that was that like you're like we want tell about chicken first and then later you realized there a .

lot of hands or really like we need to tell about anti trust what I actually I was .

struggling to remember what the exact remember yeah.

I have a long term love of chickens. And my great ambition in life is to one day .

have backyard chickens and some, or both totally different, both arms like one, the other.

Well, I would raise chickens and I would have eggs. In that way, I would be immune to egg inflation. But I know some people who raise meat chickens, and I don't think guy would do that, but it's depressing because meat chickens are very different to eggs chickens.

They look different. They don't really do anything. They kind of just like water around and flop .

one day you kill them.

Yeah.

it's sad. The other thing to IT addition to traces infinity for we've done a lot of chicken episodes to the past. So there's this guy, glen hitmen, that we talked to.

We've talked to him twice on the show. He has a big egg Operation in zona. And so we talked about when eg Prices were a surging.

We talked to him when avian flu, which unfortunately like getting headlines again, we talked to him. We've talked to see me your rides and analysts who thought that winged up the country's biggest chicken chain and the biggest single buyer. And there are certain lessons about pricing power that we learn because, you know, as whole sAilings went up, they raised the Prices is aggressively.

When whole sAiling Prices went down, they did not cut their Prices. So we've done a lot of chicken related content in the passes. I H put this together.

This was the surprising thing when we were putting together, you know, the list of people that we wanted to speak to for the series, like eighty percent of them we had actually spoken to before. So unknowingly, we were already a chicken podcast .

like IT found yoga.

Yes, when you are putting together that list.

where was IT would .

just very delicate.

are you? No.

I know you. Does he have that huge chicken cup?

Ono.

so OK, so what is .

what .

the urban legend .

according to radi .

comes from?

Red dolla, like, including on podcast. And I think i'm like the bridge water or website when he was working on water street before he started a bridge water, he was like doing commodity stuff.

And one of his clients with bank als, my Donald, where I think this is like, according to your history, like this is a few years after they like introduced the chicken out, but before they rolled IT on national, and they were worried, apparently, about volatility of chicken Prices, because they are like why we can't put chicken nugget on the menu if the Prices is going to go up and down, because they have to pull off the menu, is the Prices that we terrible. We need to take the volatility at a chicken Prices. And they came to rad olio and and they're like, can you sell us .

chicken hedge?

And red dio is like rather is not like a liquid chicken market at the time. This is I think from the the bridge water website. He argued that since a full ground chicken was nothing more than a baby check, plus corn and soy mail, the Price of the Greens were the vital costs, and they could hedge corn and soba Prices. And they said, and so he sold my dodd's vents of four and seven derivations, and they were .

able to to check my now, yeah, first of all, I love the radler as, like chosen creational, a story for himself, his background. Legend is I helped invent chicken.

Secondly.

mcDonald street, which is something that we learned from the podcast.

is, is that invent the chicken nugget, but radio shepherd the chicken with nugget as a menu item OK.

First i'll let them have that one. But the interesting thing is we did learn about volatility in pricing because this is something that the wing stop s so actually brings up. One of the reasons we saw chicken wing Prices specifically go up so much in the aftermath of the handex c was that IT turns out they are the most volatile like part of the chicken.

Can I say I have a feature, an opinion? I think great. Dollier did input the chicken, make knock anyone could event a fried lump of chicken IT takes a true genius to invent the financial hedging instruments that allows you to be commercial. So I now accept the premise that actually he, and not the person who like, put the chicken meat in batter, should get actually .

be the true fathers, really because I moving, forcing like the real economy. And he did the financial doing behind the trice shaking ahead.

Well, you're right. IT gets some interesting question about what drives progress underlying technology or is that the .

finance first the .

chicken and duck.

which gave first the duck or the financial engineer get a bad rap? And IT turns out if you need that to commercialize .

you to sum product.

you I take IT, I now give the ground that like .

every like major innovation, like there's the step of physical impression and then there's step of working out the financing here. And like the financing people are generally unheralded but well .

paid and paid half is managing yeah but this is joes pitch to try to get right on the podcast I think to .

talk about chicken you know um .

who is the new york mets manager who claim to invent the rap? Do you remember that do is that you know the rap sandwich? Rk meta manager in the days claim to have invented the rap state. I can't remember his name right now. Anyway.

a sort of mines with of that, like claiming to invent the apple pie, like if you just say loudly enough, it's proudness true. Can we talk about White wings were the most vital part of the chicken? And I did not know that I would have thought I was because any other part of the chicken and from your party.

guess, I thought I was that the supply of chickens is set by the demand for chicken breast. And so and for chicken breast goes down, the supply of chickens goes down. And wings do not drive the supply of chicken. So so the wing Prices is just like .

thank you for listening.

That's exactly you learn something.

The chicken the .

chicken breath is like the benchmark .

from which all the part. So essentially, if you're wings that you're buying .

like a sort of like so you I like die, by the way, it's more than the breast. I think it's a Better. It's like the best.

Have you guys had chicken feet? There is really good. And in asia, people always say there are a really good source of colleagues, like a lot of Young women, or also women, will eat them for skin purpose.

You say.

no, you.

At most dim, some play trying to own here so we ever want to take a trip. I it's actually, I really find him a quite .

delicious love to watch you guys eat that, or not very adventurous myself. But boy do I like being included.

I have a new puppy and I get served a lot of about a lot of and for the product. And there's definitely like extremely foolish ken.

I do my cat dried chicken hearts. Like that's a good country .

or chicken liver. Is that something?

Chicken yeah like chicken make thanksgiving stuffing out of chicken liver really good. Timely will provide our recipe for chicken liver thanksgiving stuff after this point.

Can I say so this is three part theory ah. The part that caught my ears the most was just like the physical of the chicken and how it's changed that the idea that like a chicken in the nineteen nine looks so much different than a chicken in the twenty twenty. And I feel like I knew that somewhere in the back of my mind. But this really brought IT into stark focus for me. Just how much we've changed chickens?

Yes, chickens, like a lot of domesticated animals, are the products of, you know, centuries and certainly decades of evolution. Chickens, in case, are wondering, I think they originally came from force of indonesia, and back then they were like skinny little jungle birds. And I think they are mostly like black.

Anyway, they spread around the world IT. Turns out everyone loves chicken. What are the most fascinating parts of chicken history? And I don't know why I know this, but for some reason I do is in the eighteen fifties there was a chicken bubble.

So what happened was queen Victoria got really into chickens, like breeding chickens, exotic chickens. And because he was the queen, a bunch of other people got into IT. And IT sort of became this fat, where people .

were paying .

like lots and lots of fun to get. Really people burst, by the way, and the really interesting probably, but the really interesting thing is because exotic chickens became cheap, Charles Darwin started doing research with all these different chickens from around the world on evolution. So the Victorian chicken bubble indirectly .

influenced our understanding of evolution. The yeah that because of the that we had the evolutionary theory of dark I didn't know that this didn't .

come up to the I figure out I saved IT for this podcast. There's a really funny book that was written sort of contemporary ously with the eighteen fifties all about it's called hand fever and it's about the chicken bubbles o and IT has the most amazing illustrations, including IT has this picture of a guy blowing a bunch of different bubbles.

And some of them are like what you would expect, like the south sea expeditions and railway stocks and things like that. But then some of them are shang highs and coaches, which are types of chickens. And then there's one that's labelled female novellas. So I guess in the eighteen fifties.

female novels were fast too type down, by the way.

that I was my favorite of the really liked the consumer angle. Obviously, it's fun to talk about the chicken of sandwich wars. Interesting like the market structure and some the N I trust questions and the power.

But like, I do think like one of the great sources of wealth in modern society is abundant access to fairly inexpensive protein. Yeah, in the story of the chicken getting plumper and plumper, the antibiotics that are used to keep them alive and keep them growing and yeah, avoid sickness, the sort of feeding mechanism. So what that have turned the sort of stronger, but the tracer is talking to in a sort of very tasty bird like to me that's like that's riveted, that's excited. That's progress.

right? And the soit .

future, which of course, are crucial, which we really like. There's the thing we could have done, like because chicken is so we could have done episodes on feed futures because chicken is a cont.

Everything s been like a twelve part series easily.

I think I can you god, get read on yeah in a booking.

Victorian chicken bubbles, the Green market that under pince chicken nuggets.

Exchanges the goldman sax podcast features exchanges on rates, inflation, a us. Recession, risk exchanges on the market, impact of A I for the sharpest analysis on forces driving the markets and the economy, count on exchanges between the leading minds at golden sex new episode des every week. Listen now.

I want time of the market structure. Yeah there's an episode and essentially like how chicken is, like uber, where yeah like the farmers who farmed the chickens don't own the chickens. They are outsource from like these big they call them integrators like test and purdy, where they, like the integrators, deliver hours old checks to the farmers. The farmers, they care them for a couple of weeks and then the interrogation, take them back and turn them in the chicken and nuggets. Why is that like that?

That's a really good question. I think it's just like an outcrop of the way the chicken industry evolved. By the way, I have an interesting fact.

If you don't know, chickens can still be sent live through the U. S. Mail, so you can live order.

No, but I don't really want to. I would rather go to like a local agricultural structure. And yeah exactly.

But anyway, so the way IT worked is in the sort of nineteen and twenty is one thousand and thirteen ties. We started getting these big boy laer houses so people discover this is actually one of joes favorite stories. The .

woman in deda me still, and SHE ordered what? SHE ordered one hundred chick's .

and I was like ten chicks.

SHE ordered like ten chicks in the male and accidentally ordered a thousand. So you like.

I guess I need to become a farm that .

never happens to me. No, IT doesn't happen to me either. The point about uber. So then people get into the farming, like the idea of farming that to be a chicken farmer, but like they're extremely, highly constrained, the integrators, they deliver them the chicken as they tell them the exact specifications of the born, the temperature of the feed, how much feed and so worth, and then they compete against each other in what's called the tournament system.

So you, as the farmer, are actually responsible for a lot of the capital investments that are needed to raise chickens. Meanwhile, the big integrators like a tyson or purdue, they provide a lot of the inputs. So the baby chicks themselves theyll tell you like what medicine to use, what kind of food. And so in the eyes of the farmers, they feel like they are absorbing a lot of the big risks here, while not really having a lot of control over stuff that ultimately affects the end product.

And then the tournament is you have this pool performers in an area and you're pay for some period. Is how far above below the average of that you .

put IT against .

each other, there's like a fixed pot. And then each round, you know, some people had the best check as the heavy chickies or whatever IT is, and some had the worst and so far. And so it's very type of forming, if you imagine farming and iola. And so I dillie sense ah I think some people still do, but I think we also know it's big industry business. It's not that .

vision yeah kind of like retailers like not only that realize it's like it's like we're like the the capital requirement comes from the individual small farmers like the big companies arent making a couple investments.

IT seems to be a super beneficial way of structuring their business for the big companies, right?

You can see why they like IT.

And yeah, that's exactly. And they will argue that actually providing the initial round of chicks and the food and the medicine is like a big cost center and they are taking that on. But again, like all the farmers we spoke to had pretty similar complaints.

It's uber. It's literally like matching to have a lot of yeah.

yeah that's right. That's right. But you know sometimes like uber is like you like be an entrepreneur, like they pitched that. But in the end, the rules of the business are heavily constrained. And it's always in the context of uber and policy changes that uber to make, right? It's similar to that in that there is a cap on one's ability to be .

sort of like actually a business owner. This.

speaking of uber IT also gets to something else in the modern U. S. Economy, which is sort of the prevalence of the middle and the power that they wield over the economy.

So uber basically matches passengers with drivers, and IT makes a lot of money from doing that. If you look at the farming industry, for every dollar that comes out of agriculture, farmers get like twenty cents. The other eighty cents is going to someone else. And a lot of the someone else turns out to be a middle like the you know distribution networks, the integrators in summer pect packaging.

things like that. And there's the role of the pricing algorithm setting. So this is really interesting because we talk all is like antitrust experts that interleague various targets to the integrators themselves, whether they're uncompetitive things, and this has come up over the years. But another thing that come up across a range of industries, again, chicken is the lens to uncover other aspects of the economy, is, can you have tasted Price setting systems, not via people getting in a smoke filled room.

and do the famous .

thing via a third party pricing entity that everyone uses as some agreed upon oracle? And people make this claim in all kinds of different industries these days. And again, i'm not an antitrust lawyer expert. I don't have a view on this, but IT is certainly one area that the anti trust focus people are like eager to sink their teeth into.

We tied to this on our podcasts about farmers markets because there's like a coronel l project that like gives this a good like market Price information to people of running stars at formers markets. And I sort of jokingly suggested that that is an allegiance to, like, you know, the D. J.

A. This is the real page in the rental business. And then you talk about the rather case against agre stats and the sort of .

big agriculture business can beneath every anti trust case is a discussion over whether you're actually breaking the law or it's it's just good business.

It's well because it's like, you know the olden days, like you get together in a room and you know these are our Price, these our Prices and you like winker, whatever. And we've agreed to surprise here. There's no like explosive agreement, but it's just if everyone has each other surprises yeah then there is an argument that i'm not really sure true that seems be there's an argument that that like allows .

the molting changes according mean.

if I know everyone's Prices, I can undercut everyone by a penny and I can gain market. And that doesn't .

seem to be I know the question is in some of these instances, whether you get zed or whether now I don't have any I do not know whether this ever came up with the aggression claim in some of the interest. And but isn't one of the arguments, at least in real page, that some of the allegations are that there was a penalty information .

are also providing a rising recommendation and a real page and pushes those OK, lets say but if you're providing pure information.

yeah if I have A S P, Y etf, i'm going to look at the ticker on the bloomberg terminal first before I sell right .

you'll do market .

really yeah yeah. Did that actually happen in the old got a smokey iled room wink like did that really happen? Or is that just a metaphor or that we use to describe cording?

Are you .

asking that is a lawyer?

The most famous cartel is OPEC where they meet in area, right? And they're been recent cases, you know like the ftc is little concerned about some like u at shell producers go going to those meetings and like there's like a dinner and like was the dinner to discuss raising Prices are not like the people say no. The fc says yes, it's like a little.

There is definitely a dinner. What of the kind one of the there's a famous story and i'm not forgetting where where IT was. There's a famous story of a company like there was a formal policy that they would say we are not going to include with competitors and then they would wink. So they were and then like they sent out a memo or like there's like a recording of someone saying I didn't wink like this like sick of famous story and a dress and form.

but not to your point. Your point earlier about like, okay, if you could see everyone's Prices or you have like a rough guideline about what's going along with Prices, why don't you just undercut your competitors?

This is something that we talk about in the first episode when we're talking about the consumer experience and inflation and the answer as well, if you only have a handful of big companies that are doing this, you, first of all, the is not necessary easily there to try to get into a Price war. This is the classic like anti trust argument. If you consolidate companies and they raise their Prices, they have more market power.

But there's another aspect going on in the past few years, which is we had the big pandemic, we had avian flu, we had labor shortages, we had all these massive one off specific events. And when that happens, you know, consumer is hear about them. And so if companies say, well, we have to raise our Prices because of avian flu or because of the pandemic, consumers are more willing to kind of accept that and they have fewer alternatives, right? If everyone is doing IT at the same time because of the same like exogenous shocks, then where are you gona go to get cheap eggs or chickens?

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Do guys know about the georgia dock?

No.

like dog, like D, O, C, K. This rings a bell. actually.

I this years ago, I don't know if it's still a thing. There have been like period waves of antitrust interest in the chicken industry. And there is one in like twenty thousand nine hundred and twenty eighteen that I used to referred to a chicken labor.

There is a thing, an index called the georgia dock index, which was set by a guy name was artisarlook s. He worked for the georgia department agriculture, whatever, and he would call chicken produces every day, every week or whatever, and say, what Price are are you getting for, like two and a pound chicken? S which, as I learn from your pog, as no one producers, to enough hand check and anywhere, so the people would like makeup a number, and they tell him the number and he'd write IT down, and that would go into the georgia dock index. And then a lot of chicken and supply .

contracts were said as like premiss IT off.

There are allegations that they were not reporting to high Prices to the country.

We have another episode for our twelve part series.

It's interesting. I over the years, you learn like how many indexes that exist you can find a part of are essentially put together. Like this years ago, pray about nine years, government were talking to someone is working a bloomberg actually and IT was like some scrap metal index and I was just like you call they were like a handful of junk metal yard that you call up and then you get th Epace.

Actually, you don't speak of another one is and what's really interesting. So the company that create the number index that is called random length, actually there are the ones who create the benchmark future. They also have a very interesting thing. So they do this. They call various places how much to do, sell a piece of number for each day.

And then what actually cool is you can read the contract that they talk about all of the ethical things that like the rules of the question, because they are aware that all indices such as these create situations potentially like georgia dogs or library. And so they actually have a whole set of rules about the collection process. The address is basically .

exactly this question. I thought you were going to bring up the dog kill index. That's I don't think anyone is pushing up the Price of that venture.

This was this was one of our questions at a recent quiz, was like, which of these indexes is actually real? Ed, which of these personal indexes? And the one that was real was the dog kill index? Almost no one got that right.

No one believes .

that that actually exists. You know, we used .

to have A H colombia.

Oh yeah. So it's basically the number of dogs that die in the position of airplanes when they are in air transit. I know. But speaking, the cob index is we used to have a columba kidnapping .

index. I want to talk about the Price .

of eggs more.

Well, it's sort .

of become one of at least in mycal cle, one of the most watched indexes because you talk about inflation and the thing that people complain about is gas and eggs. And I mean, Tracy, you are mentioning that there's well explained reasons why the Price of eggs has been, so bird flu being one of them. And i'm never quite sure where we are in the cycle of bird flu because it's an issue and then feels like I got down again. Now we're talking about bird food again, and I just don't know where we are in terms of how worried I should be about bird flu.

Uh, so when we started the series, we did not really expect eggs to become this huge political talking point, but they did during the election and a where we are with bird flu. okay. So we had a really big Spike in twenty twenty two, and we saw the Price of eggs shoot up that since died down.

But if you look at the egg Price index on the bloomberg, there's more than one, by the way, we have a bunch of different ones. You can see there starting to go back up again. And that's because we are getting more bird flew reported.

The interesting thing is we're starting to get IT in other animals too. yes. So you know, cows, pigs are the really worrying one because pigs have like a genome that is very similar to humans. And so the concern is that if he gets into pigs, it'll beauty into something that .

I was my question, like at what point? Personally, I need to be concerned about contracting .

births in someone when more pigs start getting .

bird flu and stunting. I anxious.

yeah, yeah. You need to pick mutation index on the bloomberg terminal that would be really worrying kind .

get our best and brightest on us. That's a worrisome well, before I spiral this, just keep IT too like the chicken industry because I do wonder, I mean, how does IT spread one of the parts that was a hard listen when I came to this episode was listening to, I think that was crowd watts describing how he had like, thirty thousand chickens in twenty thousand square feet. That sounds like these birds are just on top of each other. So I mean, how quickly does bird flu spread and what does that mean for yeah the industry.

So you're right. This is one of the downsides of industrial scale chicken farming, which is you have a lot of birds and you have them in a relative crowded space. Joe has heard me tell the story before.

Not many people know that I was born in arko, and so I spent time there with my grandma, and he used to take me to like chicken farms for fun or something. I don't know why, but I would walk into these like giant warehouses thinking like, i'm gonna fun. I'm gonna play with like fluffy baby chicks and I love chicken and you'd walk in and you'd be like looking around.

And there are a lot of dead chickens. They're just like lying there know they get cleaned up once a day or so, but there's a lot. So yeah, this is the issue.

So you have crowded conditions. It's very difficult to segregate farm chickens from the wild bird population like wild birds that have avian flu can still get in. They can eat the grain, infect IT that way. And so that's one reason why it's been really hard to stamp out .

speaking on this point. You know another interesting angle here is the sort of externalities of industrial was the name Austin ferc yeah. And how about the waste water run off? And is so like like I said, I am an optimist about the existence of cheap protein, and I think it's a marker of a wealthy society.

But there are some interesting costs that we have to take seriously, and one of them is environmental. And what that does to sort of the various water streams and some of these areas where there is a lot of industrial firming and extreme gets in the water, which is really bad, obviously. And so there are you obviously bird flu itself in the potential for that to move into other animals is scary. But then there are also this sort of like slower burn issues and why in some farming communities there's been like a push back about like how much more of this do we want and how much everyone else is cheap chicken? Is sort of slow degradation of the environment around IT?

So depressing .

we've left you speech.

They're like is they're an artisan chicken firing? Well, I mean.

backyard chickens would .

be if you go to a story by like .

the fancy checking you can find. Is that still from a giant warehouse? Or or that's .

actually a good question. I I know of one again, i'm slightly obsess for chickens. I know of one like avian genetics in the northeast who breeds really interesting chickens. And he sort of like on a small scale, maybe well.

on a slightly bigger scale. I interviewed the sea of vital farms last week, and one of their advertising points is that is like a hundred and seven square feet per chicken. So that was really addressing.

He also said I thought this was interesting to, on his most recent earnings call. Our chAllenge now, as always, is that I can cut the chickens to lay more eggs in the short run. So lot of a man and not a lot of eggs. But I mean, that's interesting again that they're advertising on that point.

that we have these seconds on the space like nice. So I think people assume they must be either Better for the .

environment, healthier. Have you seen the easter egg chickens? These are the ones that lay eggs in all different colors, so blue and Green.

And my question, you do them different? No, no.

you they just do IT. I one thing I don't know is like whether one eater egg producers like only Green eggs and then another easter egg will produce like only pink coins.

I thought that the bunny rabbits like the easter gs.

yeah, that's right, Kitty, that's chick .

initiation. I said that, right. yeah. Do other animal industries look like this? Is the port industry look like this? What does the cow industry look like? Is IT as depressing?

yeah. So this is another talking point from the podcast, which is this very, you know, up until now, unique model of producing chickens where the big integrators are outsourcing. A lot of those big capital is becoming more common in agriculture itself.

So the big example and brought this up earlier would be pig farming in AA. And IT gets to interesting questions in business about who should bear the ultimate cost of a business. We kind of talk about that earlier.

But again, to joe point earlier, IT gets to interesting questions about who should bear the environmental cost. So maybe all of amErica is OK with IOS like being responsible for raising our pigs and having to deal with like run off and stuff like that and boiling its water systems. But probably IOS is not.

Can I just say like after having done this series, I don't really view IT is depressing. I don't want this to be seen as like started genie about against the country. I did just think there's a lot of interesting tensions, right?

Like there is benefits to industrial scale chicken firming, there is complicated market aspects of industrial chicken scale of farming. There is amazing consumer outcomes like the check sandwich wars, and like those are very delicious and their costs, whether IT is the risk born by the farmers, the risk of disease and the risk of environment is the next right. Like I, but I didn't perceive the whole project to be like anti chicken thing at all.

No, I want both the people and the chickens to be happy. Yeah, that's my version of an ideal future.

That's like I, as an animal freak, can get past the chickens and lake, you know, then falling over because like theyve been here related .

to this point where you .

know they can send up straight. I don't know if this came up in any view discussions, but like where are we on lab grown? Chicken.

because I know, is that .

like cheap protein, is great for a society. It's the marker of a successful society. But surely there's a way to achieve that without what's open to these animals. Really shown my true colors on this park. No.

I was for several years.

And then, you know.

I like.

you job is vegetarian.

I rays vegetable. I had me was twenty four wow, when I moved to new york is like, I and just .

too much good for that.

I did. And I like, I was like, I .

tried.

remember I that's a hard launch. yeah. It's a hard, hard launch yeah. My parents were happy. So I raised vegetarian.

I was a vegetarian for lake ages eleven to fourteen. I feel like I stunted my growth. I'm shorter than both my parents.

But anyway, doesn't matter your pod. yeah. Thank you for.

Letting us talk about chicken.

No one made chicken sound or a pun.

yeah. No, you made one. Pn, I did. Yeah, I was very proud. I can't remember, but you did make one.

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