Shownotes Transcript
Hey, weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.
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I have been ordering a little bit on Prime lately. I had to get some earplugs the other night because my husband was a snorey-snore-snoring, and I said, please send them to me the very next day. And they did. That was great. Loved that. Whether you're a total bookworm, a gaming fanatic, or you just really like trying new things or sleeping through the night without your husband snoring waking you up, Prime's got your back. Ebooks for days, free in-game goodies, and everything you need to make your next DIY project.
From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. Lamont Jones is shattered when his cousin dies just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. Wondery presents Death County PA, a chilling true story of corruption and cover-ups. Follow Death County PA on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid. This is Morbid and it is humid and swampy outside like it's fucking Florida or some shit. Oh we haven't even been outside today though. Yeah but I was told by reputable sources. Ha ha ha!
Yeah, but I know. Meaning my husband texted me and said, it's like Florida outside. It's humid. No, he's a very reputable source. Well, the problem, it wasn't even fucking humid in Florida when we were there. So now we're back home and we have to deal with humidity. And guess what? Not good for my hair. Yeah, I don't like it. Not good for my hair that I blow dried this goddamn morning. One thing I am excited though. Thanks for caring. I don't. Moving on.
Wow. You guys know I don't love summer, but I've decided to get into it this year. Because? Because Summerween and Slasher Summer. I'm trying to get in that vibe. It's going to be fun. And I'm excited for that. So I'm trying to get in a different...
state of mind for summer. Because this is usually the time of the year when I say, fuck it, I need fall more than I need oxygen. Wow. And it hurts. I want it so bad. No. Like I'm there now. Like it's hurting me. I'm in pain right now. Literally May 2nd. Yeah, that's my favorite response is whenever I say that, somebody just goes, checks calendar. It's this date. And I say, no, I know that.
That's what hurts, is that it's not October. She's going to square up right now. She said... That is always the response. She said, I know what the fucking date is, but you're fucking...
Arms up! It's always the response. I say, wow, I really want fall and people are like, it's May 3rd. And I'm like, I know! If it wasn't May 3rd, I wouldn't be missing fall. I would be in fall. I know that. I think we're going to have to noise regulate this episode because we screaming. We screaming. Listen, I like summer. I'm ready for my birthday, which is in one month. We're not even in Gemini season yet. So...
I'm excited for Summerween and you can feel how you feel and I can feel how I feel and we can still run a successful podcast together. Just so you know, it's May 2nd. It is. I know. Do you know? Listen, I was being mature. I was being mature. I was being mature right there and you weren't. Maybe that's why Nicholas has a problem with you. Oh, we got to talk about that, guys.
This is a fake fight, by the way. It is. I think we've opened up a few episodes fighting lately. Yeah, and I feel like that's going to start a whole thing where I'm going to be chased with pitchforks. Maybe they'll chase me. No. I can't run, so don't do that. I won't run. I will not run. No, this is totally fake. We're totally fine. Jokes. We're in a silly, goofy mood. Help.
Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. But no, on a lighter note, but no, on a little bit of a scary note, actually. Elena has a problem with a poltergeist. Okay, so here we are. Maybe not a poltergeist. This is a spooky episode. We didn't, we started out with a theme and then we said, no. Are you okay? Oh, see, he's trying to make it right. Maybe he asked me if I was okay because I said, I mean, I'm okay.
Damn. That's like a ghost lyric. I like that. Maybe that's Fall talking to you. I think that's Nicholas. Mother. Mother. Okay, we're back. Me and Nicholas are back. He heard me starting to talk about it and he was like, I'm sorry I hurt you. I'm sorry. I'm not sold. He's responding. Okay, Nicholas, I'm sorry. I'm going to talk about our fight, but...
We're fine. We're totally cool now. Okay, wait. Going back, if you guys watched or listened to Listener Tales episode 666, we had a special guest Nicholas on. It's the GhostTube app. We're going to put it up whenever we do spooky episodes. Yeah, just spooky episodes or maybe when we feel like it.
Yeah. You guys seemed to like it, though. It was fun. He doesn't interrupt that much. And when he does, it's very pertinent information. It's worth it. We named him Nicholas because he named himself Nicholas. That's how that works. We said, what's your name? And he said, Nicholas. And we said, okay, Nicholas it is. Nicholas and I were bro-ies the last time. I felt a deep connection to him. So we started off this episode and I was like, Nicholas, what's going on? And he said he was struggling. Yeah.
And I was like, oh, no. And I said, tell me your woes, Nicholas. And he responded, you. And I said, whoa, this is our first fight. Okay, but maybe his woes are you because, like, he lives here. Because he can't, like. He can't love you. Because you're not even on the same plane and you're married.
I'm telling John. I think that's me and Nicholas's dynamic. I think because he just, he. You're his forbidden love. He heard that I misunderstood here. Although he did just call you mother, so. Yeah, that's weird. Maybe he thinks you're an icon. It's okay. He thinks, yeah, he's like mother. I'm lost. He's lost? He's lost without me. See, he said, no, he said, I don't even know how I feel. Resist.
Possessed. I'd like to not be, personally. Nicholas, we're okay. We're okay now. We understand each other, Nicholas. I get it, okay? Yeah, it's complicated on Facebook. Some people don't understand our snark, okay? But this is how we do. That's right, mother. So Nicholas is going to be around. And Nicholas will chime in when he feels like he has something to say. When he sees fit. Okay.
And again, we were going to make this like a themed spooky episode, but then we just got crazy with it. And Ash chose a cemetery. I chose an institution, like an asylum. And we're just going with that. So there's no real theme except spooky. This is fucking spooky. So Nicholas is the theme. He's the common thread. Nicholas. Serving Nicholas. Serving Nicholas. Mother. Very much so.
He just said that. Oh my god, wow. He's a king. Nicholas for life. He said serving Nicholas very much. Very much. Okay, I think Nicholas is a gay icon. I love Nicholas. Personally, I'm obsessed with him. Is he going to be on the season of All Stars? I'm obsessed with him. Maybe. Oh my god, did he say maybe? Bitch, we have a full-blown relationship with a gay paranormal icon. Get on our goddamn level. I am.
literally upset. I've never been, I've quite frankly never been happier. He said, maybe catch me on RuPaul's Drag Race season 17. I love you. Wow. Oh my goodness, Nicholas. You bring joy.
Wow. Okay. I don't even know how to follow that up, but I don't think we can. Episode done. Bye. Thanks for listening. So I found this. So searching for spooky places. I didn't know what I wanted to do. At first I was looking for cemeteries. That's how this did lead me here. Because Ash had found a cemetery she wanted to do. And I was like, all right, I will find a cemetery.
So the reason I found this is it's an old asylum. I'm going to get into all the nitty gritty. It's really horrible, so buckle in. But there is a cemetery on the site of this place, but it's like a mass grave. Oh. So it's technically a cemetery, but that's what led me to this. And then when I found out the history... Water. You need some? I'm empty on water, actually. Are you asking? Yeah.
So when I got further into like the history of this, that's when I was like, I have to include. Are you literally about to take a sip of your water because you told me to? He told me water, okay? He said water. This bitch just yeeted down to her water bottle. Yeah, he said hydrate. And I said, okay, Nicholas. She said, as you wish. Yeah, as you wish, Nicholas. So I'm going to, and then.
As I got into the background of this place, and it's just a horrifying history, I found that Sam and Colby had gone to this place. Our bros. And explored it. So I watched that video because I wanted to see what that was about. And they experienced something crazy there. So I urge you to go look up there.
their video about it. But yeah, it's a very scary place. It was a very scary history. And again, this is going to be a little upsetting at times. This is not, it's a, it's like an institution. So that's not great. Mine will palate cleanse a bit. Yeah. So this is Forest Haven Asylum. It was opened in 1925. It was opened under a much more offensive, but very of the time name. Yeah.
So part of that was the district training school for something that I will not say now. It was named Forest Haven Asylum in 1963. That's better. That's when they changed it up. I mean, still pretty shitty. Yeah, and somehow it got shittier after that. So I don't know how that happened. Oh, it did? It was intended initially to treat children and young adults in more...
It was a really bad hotel. They were treating children and young adults in Laurel, Maryland, and it was serving the people of the District Columbia as well. Like, it had a big range. It was going to be taking in people who were deemed mentally ill at the time, like severely mentally ill, but later it went way far out of those parameters. Far enough to bring in kids and young adults that were just deemed mentally
not quote unquote normal by society or were just people that nobody wanted to deal with anymore. That's horrible. There was also times when people were taken from their families against their family's will and put into this place. How did that happen? It was really bad. I mean, there was a time, and we'll get to it, that an orphanage closed nearby and 20 orphans were just
written down in documentation as being mentally ill to be put into this place because they didn't have anywhere else to put them. Holy shit. So completely, you know, like just like average kids happen to be orphans, don't have any illnesses that we could see. Right. We're just put in this place to be forgotten about. Yeah. Yeah.
So this is huge. This place is gigantic. It has 30 structures. It covers 250 acres. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere in a forest. Like it's definitely pushed off, which a lot of these places usually were. On the entryway into the main building, and it's still there, there's a bronze plaque that says, yet while I live, let me not live in vain.
Which is chilling because all of them did. Yeah. Like they did not follow that. Right. At the height of its operation, it had over a thousand patients, which they were referring to as inmates at the time. Way overcrowded. Way overcrowded.
When it initially opened in the 20s, and this is what's wild, it was initially created as like a progressive farm colony style thing. Like they had opened it as an institution, but what they wanted to do was make it more like a wellness thing. They wanted to actually help these kids and these young adults like grow and thrive and like nourish them. Yeah, like truly make it like a wellness thing. In the beginning, they were learning life skills, farm skills. They were like...
doing work and training for certain things and having like a real feeling of being part of a community they were providing for the community as well with the farming stuff so like they were they were given purpose like yeah everything there was supposed to be like super chill there was a lot there too in the beginning there was basketball courts a baseball field they would publish the scores of the baseball games in the papers sometimes at first oh that's cool so initially this was like
Like a community. And it was being held up as this great place. Great stories were coming out. I mean, they had theaters there. They had a gym. They had all kinds of things to keep the patients busy and active and their minds working. How did it all go to shit? Everything was calm and nurturing. Well, in the 1960s, the funding started to be pulled back. And once the funding got pulled back, the asylum was suffering. ♪
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They started to take in people outside of the, way outside of the parameters. Mostly, like I said, without their family's consent. Some of them were like basically kidnapped. Like people with epilepsy were put here. People with just hearing problems. Why?
What? People with tuberculosis. Oh, my God. Kids, the kids from the orphanages without any known disabilities. According to Ghost Adventures, in the 70s, there was a lawsuit about this. But I'll get into these lawsuits, too, because they were wild. But, like, nothing fixed anything. Even these lawsuits. Yeah. Plausible. It is pretty plausible. But, like, they didn't fix anything. Chris, Chris. Wednesday. Okay. Whoa. Your leg. Okay.
Honey? I'm sorry, what? Your leg? He said, Mistress Wednesday, your leg. You better put your legs back up. Mine are exposed. Goddamn. That's your man. That's your polter man. I think there might be two in there. Two manses. So yeah, they kept on taking patients. You know, like I said,
Of all different kinds, like people who didn't wouldn't necessarily be, quote unquote, institutionalized. Sure. And, you know, now the recreation programs were being cut like it wasn't this nurturing farming community anymore that they were learning things. It became crazy overcrowded. Right.
They were not being monitored. They were not being stimulated in any way, shape, or form. They would just leave them to just like wander around doing nothing. That is my life.
I do like you. They are monsters. They would end up being like sexually assaulted, physically assaulted by staff, by other patients. Like it was a literal, it was a hell house. Like it is called a hell house. Yeah. It's awful. And the only attention these patients were receiving at this point, like they were being totally neglected. Right. And if they did get attention, it was abuse. That's all it was. That's all the attention that they were getting.
And so staff was also being replaced with completely unqualified people. They were allowing doctors with suspended licenses to continue working there. Meaning the state of Maryland had deemed these people not suitable to practice medicine anymore. What? Yeah. What? I agree. Yeah, it's nuts. Nicholas gets it.
Again, the abuse was widespread and it was awful. Aspiration pneumonia was a leading cause of death there, which happens when, and especially in this kind of environment, when feeding procedures are basically not being followed safely. They would force feed patients. They would feed people laying down oftentimes. They would use improper feeding tubes like
they in fact the laying down while feeding was like a thing like they were constantly being fed while laying flat on their back so stupid that is stupid nicholas this is wild this is a little legitimately wild something he's really kind of freaking me out yeah that is stupid but no like it's also just fucking like diabolical it is you don't need to do that it's senseless and it's
Like, how is nobody training them to do a better job? Like, to learn feeding procedures. Because it would cost money. Yeah, exactly. Now, deaths from neglect and torture were just skyrocketing at this point. There was also punishments. Like, they would be, you know, thrown into rooms by themselves and left there for days. They would be hit with bats. They would end up with missing teeth. They would be hit with belts. Like, horrible shit. Horrible shit. Yeah.
Mayor Vincent Gray, the director of the D.C. Department of Human Services at the time. Were there human services at the time?
And he told the Washington Examiner his most vivid memory of the place was seeing, and this is very upsetting just so everyone knows, was seeing nude residents paraded outdoors to be hosed down by staff members. Oh my God. Yeah. You have to be demonic to do that to somebody. You really do. You have to be demonic.
So a Washington Post article, there was a quote in there that said, workers here, because of frustration and lack of help, tend to abuse residents. Of all of our residents, I'd add some 400 don't belong here. It's difficult. It is difficult. It was difficult. That's not frustration or lack of help, though. That's lack of humanity. Exactly. You can't claim overstimulation and frustration. Control yourself. Right. In many incidents, the facility is contributing to the handicapped.
So they're saying, like, a lot of times these people aren't coming in here with any issues. But they are staying because of it. But they are creating issues while they're here. Medical experiments were happening. They were putting them naked in freezing cold baths. What the fuck? Which often caused the deaths. Some death certificates would say... Be quiet. Some death certificates would say they died from burns.
Which is awful. Tons of patients were crowded into padded rooms together and left for days with no food, nowhere to sit, nothing to do. They also used, they utilized like adult cribs where they would strap them in there and they wouldn't be able to leave. That's really sad. There was also a morgue in the basement, obviously, because these places have to have one. Yeah. That makes sense.
But this one was like one that they could like expedite. If someone died, they would just rush them on down there and scoot them out to get buried with no one looking. Yeah. And they were buried in unmarked graves in a big field right on the property. Mass graves, like tons. That is so fucked up. Nothing. And it's very creepy now because if you look at like aerial shots of this place.
Or if you go there, which, by the way, you can't legally go there. You have to get permission to go there now. It's, like, a government area, and it's patrolled by security guards. Okay. And it's also, like, highly dangerous. If you watch the Sam and Colby video, they literally had to, like, dodge security guards. Like, don't do that. Yeah. Like...
But like they, it's, you'll get in big trouble now. So I don't want to send anyone there. But if you were to get permission to be on these grounds, you would see that there's depressions in the field. That's the cemetery where these people were buried side by side, like hundreds of them. It's so difficult. It's weird you keep saying that. I know. And they're all like side by side in rows and it's like erosion is happening. So it's starting to show where the graves are. It's very spooky. Yeah.
A woman named Tina Simmons from the Laurel Historical Society, she worked in genealogy. She has done a ton of research naming these people, like finding out who these people were. Oh, good for her. Finding their graves. And she had found 16 individuals that...
Like there's a monument to these people that was finally erected. But she found 16 people who are not listed on that monument. What? That like weren't listed. So they don't know who they are. They didn't do the monument right? Yeah, like I have no idea. But she found deaths because she found all these death certificates for these people. These deaths in this institution range from three hours old to
So somebody three hours old to 65 years old. What the fuck? And the three hours old ones, they said those are very nefarious because that means somebody either entered in pregnant, which was rare, or something happened in there that they became pregnant. And it's like, that's scary. That's like, there was so much sexual abuse in here. If you are looking it up, sometimes this cemetery, this makeshift cemetery is called the District Training School Cemetery. Yes.
The first recorded death here, and it was recorded according to the Laurel Historical Society, was 1928. So three years after they opened. In 1950, this is just an interesting one that I found in a newspaper, two boys, Arthur Swan, who was 16 years old, and Raymond Thorne, who was 17, escaped from the institution after stealing a rifle from an employee's locker.
Damn. They left for a night and then Arthur returned the next day without Raymond. The director said he wasn't super concerned when they ran off because especially Arthur was a, quote, regular absconder. So he would escape a lot. Okay. When Arthur came back, he started teasing and hinting that he, quote, knew where there was a dead body. Oh, okay.
They ignored this for a while, but then they called the authorities finally when he started like really ramping these things up and they were able to locate the murdered body of Raymond Thorne, who he had run away with. He had killed him with the rifle, left the rifle on top of him and just like dumped him in the woods. Yeah. Now, again, in the early 50s, Geraldine Griggs, who was a 15-year-old patient at the institution, was paralyzed. She had gone in paralyzed. She will touch you.
I don't like that. That one wasn't good. No. Nicholas, I didn't like that one. Nicholas, stop it. Take that back. That one was upsetting. Yeah. This one is horrifying because this nurse never really faced charges for this. What would she do? She was 15 years old. She was paralyzed. She drowned in a bathtub. So a nurse, Elsie Stambach, put her in the tub and then left her alone to take care of another patient, and Geraldine drowned.
She's paralyzed. You can't leave her in the bath. What are you doing putting a paralyzed young girl in a tub and leaving her there? Oh, my God. If something happens, she can't move to get herself above the water. That's so sad. What are you doing? This should be pretty common sense. Charges were brought, but they were dropped, and she resigned. But, like, that kind of shit was pretty regular. In 1970, and this is really awful, just to...
tell you. A young eight-year-old girl named Joy Evans was sent here because she required 24-hour care and her parents had to work and couldn't provide it.
Her mother, Betty, said when she was first sent there, she almost immediately started seeing issues happening. She would find injuries on Joy like chipped teeth to scratches, lacerations, bruises all over her. Get her out. One horrific thing was that Joy's back, she said, was raw because she would be strapped to a rubber sheet and her back was raw from urine burns. They would just leave her there.
to lay in it. How do you do that to anybody, let alone an eight-year-old? And she, the thing is, her parents couldn't get her out of there because sometimes once you would institutionalize someone, they like wouldn't give them back to you. What? Yeah, and also like they still couldn't do the 24-hour care. She died there as a teenager of aspiration, meaning she was fed improperly, lying down and choked to death.
That's horrific. Yeah. Betty, the mother, wrote in an affidavit, Dogwood, the cottage where Joy lived, was a veritable snake pit. I once witnessed a nurse open the cottage door only to find 80 half-clad screaming women come running to the door. The nurse quickly closed the door. Nicholas. Say Nicholas? He just said Nicholas again.
That's weird. No, that's crazy. That was like two, three weeks ago. That was weird. That we did that episode. Yeah, that's really weird. So they, she just shut the door on 80 women? Like they all came running towards the door to try to get out and she just closed the door and walked away. Like just like, I'm not dealing with that. Oh my God. Yeah. And a mother later said once committed to Forest Haven, the only way out is to die.
Oh, that's chilling. In the mid-70s, this is when the families filed a class action lawsuit against the institution for how they were treating their children and family members. And the lawsuit said, To say the least. The Department of Justice got involved and more court cases came in, but things just got worse for a bit.
The lawsuit stated at one point, staff members locked dozens of residents, naked except for adult diapers, in rooms stripped of furniture other than wooden benches. Like, why? You have to be, like, an actual monster to do that. Like, you literally have to find some kind of something out of that. You do. Like, you really have to be. That's not even being, like...
You have to either be entirely detached from humanity, which means you are a monster. Yep. Or you have to find some kind of enjoyment out of it. Both ends are just the worst kind of person.
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Now, as it went into the 80s, there was way more deaths occurring very rapidly in succession, and they were really tragic deaths. They would strap, you know, patients to beds and just leave them to die at times.
Finally, in 1991, the institution shuttered. I can't believe it was open that long. Yeah, and it was like during these, like after the lawsuit in the 70s, it was like they slowly started moving patients into different group homes because that was their solution was like, we got to shut this place down, but we can't just like move everyone out at once. Once they were completely traumatized. Because there's over a thousand patients in there. So they were doing it slowly. And it's like at the end, there was like,
15 residents left in there and they were just being complete. I mean, that would be perfect under normal circumstances because you shouldn't have that many people. Right. But they were being neglected too. Right. Because everything was just like, whatever, let's forget about it. Now...
In the 80s is when the families of those who died funded that like big stone memorial marker that I told you about. Yeah. And it had 391 names of children and adults who died there. Wow. And this area is called the Garden of Eternal Rest now. Oh, wow.
If you were to go there now after getting permission to go there, everything is left behind. I mean, suitcases, toys, clothing, paperwork, medical devices, equipment. Oh, that's so scary. It's all there. There are photos of people, of kids in the facility. Oh. A ton of shoes, like baby shoes. Oh.
Kids shoes, slippers. No. High heels, like all kinds of shoes. No. It's very stressful. Again, it is patrolled by guards. Apparently it's all very dense woods around it. You have to do like hiking through it. And then you just like come upon it. Like everyone says it's like all woods, all woods, all woods. And then you like come to this point where it just appears. Like it's like a jump scare. That's scary. Yeah, that is scary. Now, of course, with a history like this,
It's going to have hauntings. I mean, yeah. I mean, it's... Are you rife with hauntings? It is. There's crazy... I mean, you go in here, supposedly, a lot of people hear screaming and groaning. Like people say legit people crying and begging for help out of rooms. And when they go... And this place is completely... Experiment. What the fuck?
That's literally what was happening. Because of these, they would do medical experiments on these people. Yeah. And they're all. And that's why they were screaming. You can hear that shit. People hear gurneys being pushed down the wall, like the squeaking of gurneys. Something about, I literally just got goosebumps from that. Ugh. Yep. I don't like it. People often hear the morgue door, because the morgue's in the basement, obviously. They hear the morgue door slam. Oh.
And when they, like, no one else is in there. Just residual hauntings. And one of the things people really talk about is just the intense feeling of dread in that place. People say it's like sadness is something you can touch in there. Like, it is so...
in this place. Like sadness has permeated every part of this place. It's not the kind of place I would want to investigate. It looks scary. I want to, now I want to like hear from people who have investigated this people. I want to talk to them. Yeah, I want to know like what the feeling was here. Now,
Now, a lot of people report feeling someone with very cold hands grab them or just touch them in the hallways, which also like you always think of like doctors having cold hands. Yes. Like that's like a thing. Yes. And it just makes me think of like doctors and cold hands. I don't like it. I don't like that. There's a clinical smell, like an antiseptic kind of smell that will sometimes happen. Like a hospital. Yeah, like a very hospital type smell or that like musty hospital smell, you know, like, yeah. Yeah.
EVPs from this place go crazy. I mean, it's like you look them up. Go ahead and look on YouTube and all that. There's tons of EVPs. Charm City Paranormal is one in particular. They did a really good. I haven't like watched any of their videos, so I know nothing about them. But I do know this one video I watched was very well put together and they did like a very deep dive on the history and stuff, which
which makes me think that they, like, really care about these places they go to. Yeah, of course. So they visited this place. And when they were there, they caught, like, crazy EVPs. And there were, like, voices when they'd walk through hallways of things. Like, one was, I wanted you to find me, Michael. Oh. And one of them was, please take John. Oh. Which makes me think of, like, somebody bringing their family member in and saying, like, please take him. Yeah. Which, like, oh, like, I just got full chills from that. But...
Nicholas, I don't know what you think, but that freaked me out. And I highly recommend looking up those kind of investigations that people have done here. Yeah. Look up the Sam and Colby one and look up the Charm City Paranormal one. Those are the ones I took a peek at. Damn. But yeah, it's a wild... Just knowing that there is a makeshift graveyard map...
mass grave on site that they have proven. Like, it is 100% there. This is not like rumor. This isn't one of those things that they're like, they think there's bodies. Nope, they know there's bodies there. They're all listed out. And on the marker, they are listed in the order of when they died and they're listed in the order of where they are buried. How do they know? They were able to go through and I guess they had like...
Some of them have markers, but they're like buried in the ground and they're just like a little marker with like a number on it or like an initial. Don't leave me. Oh, so don't leave me. He said, don't leave me.
Oh, yeah. Nicholas. I was just thinking it's sad that they had to stay there. Like it's sad that they couldn't. Obviously, there's way too many bodies to. Yeah. Exhume. And that's like a whole. Oh, it's awful. A whole thing. It's awful to think about. It's just sad that they're stuck there. Yeah. Like that's their resting place is this awful nightmare. And it's like the building where all that stuff happened to them is right there. Yeah. It makes me want to cry. It is. It's awful.
Very sad. I know. I'm sorry. It was just, it was one of those that I looked at and I was like, I have to tell this story. It's fascinating. Because this is a horrific story and it's one that I'd never heard of. Thank goodness it closed. Fuck that place. Yeah. Oh, it closed. 1991, it was officially closed. It was open for like 70 years. Yeah.
And it's really sad to think about like the people's intention who got together and wanted to make that a great place and like had the baseball games and had, you know, let's teach people how to farm and get back to the community. Like it started with such pure intentions. That's the thing. It seemed like they really wanted that place to be like a place where people could thrive and get better. Yeah.
It just shows you when you take away funding from things that matter. Yeah. Things get real fucked up. It's true. Which is so sad. Ugh, I hate that. Yeah, that is Forest Haven Asylum. Damn. Well, I'm taking us back to Massachusetts. Cool, bring us here. We're going to Leicester.
Leicester. Leicester. In Leicester, Mass, there is a Quaker cemetery that dates all the way back to the 1700s. Whoa. Officially, the cemetery is known as Friends Cemetery. And still to this day, it's actually run by the local Quaker community, who are now called Worcester Friends Meeting. Worcester. Worcester. Worcester.
But to many, it's better known as Spider Gates Cemetery. I knew I've heard of this one. Spider Gates Cemetery. And it's said not only to be haunted as fuck, but also to be the eighth gate to hell. Oh, shit. Ghost to Hades.
Apparently the other seven are at various locations spread throughout the country. I don't know where they are. Oh, I want to know where that is. But this here cemetery is kind of like the final boss. Oh, shit. Yeah. Once you get to this one, eighth, boom. Hell. You're on your way. Yeah. I don't understand why you would want that.
Yeah, I don't know. Right? That's, I mean, yeah. I mean, maybe like shit's tough. You're curious. Yeah. Well, first things first, the cemetery got its nickname, Spider Gates, if you can imagine, from its gates. From the gates. Yeah.
The design that repeats through each panel was actually designed to be sun rays done in kind of like an art deco style. But people think that they look like spiders more than anything else. And I kind of agree if you look up a picture. Yeah, I think so too. Unfortunately, though, the original gates aren't actually even there anymore because they got stolen. Oh, shit. Which is fake as fuck. Who would steal those?
No, I don't steal things. I don't want those. I don't want those. They're gorge. They are. But don't steal. They're a cemetery gate. Exactly. A tallow ground. A tallow ground. That's fucked up. You don't steal from there. Yeah, you can't do that. Well, and the thing that sucks even more is that when they got replaced, people vandalized them and graffitied them so often that the Leicester Historical Society said, okay, fine, you don't get them anymore. Okay.
And now they're safely storing the gates. They had them removed in, I think it was back in 2022. I was just going to say it was, it must've been recent. It was. Yeah. But they've been working out a plan on how to properly display the gates somewhere else, most likely. As they should. Yeah. So they're working on something like a big project right now that's supposed to be done in spring of this year. And then I think that's their next project is figuring out the gates.
Figuring out those fucking gates. Just in case you were worried. I was worried. But anyway, when you first walk into the cemetery, this is really sad, there's an oak tree off to the side.
And legend has it that a young boy hanged himself on that tree back in the 40s. And for a while, people said that if you visited the cemetery, you would still see a line of rope hanging from the tree, which is like fucked. That's chilling. People who have visited recently say they don't see the rope anymore. But people do claim to hear voices in that particular area and see shadows. Damn. Yeah. That's scary. Now, in the center, there's a whole section. You're welcome. You.
You said that's scary? Nicholas said, you're welcome. Thanks, bro. In the center, there's a whole section of land that just never grows grass. Oh, those are always the scary things. Like, what the fuck's up there, Kyle? Why? Why, Kyle? Like, what's going on? Well, apparently the old Quaker meeting house used to stand on this exact area, which is interesting. But now it's just surrounded by four posts made from stone and like a ton of large trees, which like...
Maybe it has something to do with the trees blocking the sun. I don't know. I don't think so. I think it's pretty fucking scary. I think that's scary. Plenty of places have trees that are blocking. It's true. And they still grow grass. It's true. This place, not so much. Not so much. But like I said, people call it the altar. And they say it's a place where some seriously nefarious people have come throughout the years to perform satanic sacrifices and rituals. You know?
My personal favorite legend connected to this cemetery is that of Marmaduke Earl. Let's go. Which I'm probably going to name my future child. Let's go. Mr. Earl, if you're nasty, was buried all the way back in 1839. Damn. Legend has it that if you find his grave at midnight on the dot, circle it 10 times-
Oh, no! Oh!
I'm not going to lie. I want to know what he has to say. I do as well. I desperately want to know what he has to say. Well, you're not a lone girlfriend because people do this so often that the area around his grave also has no grass. Yeah, because it's just like trampled down. Yeah, it's literally trampled down. Damn.
There's also a river on the property that a lot of people think is the River Styx. Of course. Of course. Of course. That river comes from Greek mythology, if you didn't know. And actually, it's very interesting. Oh, I love this, like, tale. It's cool. Styx is not just a river, but a goddess. Yeah.
Yet you a girl who could do both. Be a river and a goddess. Hello. She was the daughter of Oceanus and was said to be given one-tenth of his water. And that water became a portal to hell. To Hades. To Hades. So that river being on this property pretty much lends itself to the fact that people think it's a portal or gate to hell. Let's go, Riverstick. I see what you did there. Hell yeah. It's fucking metal.
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A lot of people who visit Spider Gate Cemetery will leave coins in or near the river to pay another figure from Greek mythology, Charon, who it's like kind of Karen if you're nasty as well. Hell yeah. He's the ferryman, yeah. I love that tale. I think Greek mythology is cool. Greek mythology?
Super cool. We spent a lot of time on it in like seventh grade and I remember just getting like interested as fuck. It's fascinating. It is. But so he's the ferryman who will guide you to hell but only if you give him a coin. He does not guide for free. No.
No way. And if you show up with the intention of heading to hell and you don't have payment, I don't recommend that personally. No. Because they say that if you do that to the ferryman, he will fuck you up and you will have to wander around the river, the shore river, the river, the shore of the river. All of it. I'm all fucked up right now. For over. You didn't bring up the cold again. For over a hundred years. No.
Just wandering the shore of the river and the river shore. Oh, no. The shore river. No. I mean, I don't blame him because it's like he provides a service that you cannot provide yourself. Yeah. And it's not like you can. So don't expect him to do it for free. He can't contact a local lawyer. Yeah. So. It's like, come on. I just want to say it's a little bit fake that Nicholas was like commenting a lot on your story, but not on mine. I'm telling you, we are, we have a connection. Yeah. I just wanted you to know that, Nicholas. Okay. I'm feeling a little bit left out.
Are you sure you turned it back on? Nicholas, do you like me better? Oh, honey, put him up. Anyways, a woman named April spoke with the Worcester Telegram and Gazette about an experience she had while poking around the cemetery. And she told them, I would definitely say the feel of the cemetery and surrounding area was spookier in the evening compared with midday.
Of course, April. I mean, yeah. She said,
I later read some lore for Spider Gates that says you will see a second cemetery once, but never again. That's cool. Isn't that fucking rad? I love that. And that is something that is reported on a lot. Really? A ton of people say they go, they will see like another cemetery in the distance, but it's hard to get to. And then they'll go back to be like, oh my God, no, I'm like, I'm telling you, I saw that. This is where it was. And it's not there. Oh, that's cool. I love that. I wonder what the significance of that is.
I think it's just like hellacious. It's just shenanigans. Yeah, it's just fun. Just hellish shenanigans. It's just like Hades being Hades. She also said that the second day they went back, because I think she went back to be like, am I going to see this again? Yeah. And when they were by the river, she said she swore she heard a woman's voice.
Which is another thing that's reported on a lot. A lot of people say that they hear a woman's voice. And I couldn't find anything to substantiate this. It's really sad, though. People say that a woman was murdered in a cave nearby and dismembered. Oh, shit. Like way back when. But again, couldn't find anything on it. Okay. But people do hear a woman screaming a lot. Damn. When they visit here. That's scary. Yeah. Yeah.
And then honorable mention goes to the mysterious rock formations that people will see with runes on them. That is so Massachusetts. I can't even stand it. We love a rock wall. We love stones here. Stones. We just love rocks. Do you know that I was literally thinking about putting a stone wall up in my home? Yeah, as you should. In my yard. Stones are our thing in Massachusetts. I like stones. It also affects the... Idiotic. Idiotic.
Did he just say idiotic? He sure did. I will not have this. I will not have this. He said that stupid as fuck. He doesn't like stones? He didn't like your idea. No, he doesn't like stones. Listen, I'm not going to be bullied. Help. Help? Yeah, you're going to need it. Nicholas, I'm on your side. No, but stones fuck up. Isn't it like the radon levels or something like that?
Isn't that why the radon levels are so high in like Massachusetts? Yeah, because we have like a lot of stone in the ground. Yeah, exactly. Stones. Stones. Honorable mention also goes to the white ooze that visitors have seen emerging from random spots in the earth. I don't like that. In the cemetery. I don't like that. It's pretty gross. Yeah. And of course, the demon creature said to be living in the surrounding forest. Failure. Yeah. Turn him off. Why am I being bullied?
Nicholas just called me a failure. He literally has. Why are you being so mean to Ash? Nicholas, why are you being mean to me? Nicholas, don't be mean to Ash, okay? That won't work. It won't endear you to Elena. And I'm also going to have to revisit this in therapy, okay?
But anyway, don't make fun of anything when I say this, Nicholas, because this is a listener tale that I found from one of our good-ass precious listeners, Nicholas. Oh, man, Nicholas. So one of our listeners went here and had some crazy experiences. Oh, girl.
Okay. It says, Hey, weirdos. I am so in love with your podcast. My name is Dee. You can use it. Thanks, Dee. Hey, Dee. I'm a true crime enthusiast, and I have to say, out of all the podcasts I've listened to, yours is by far the best. Oh, thanks. Thank you. You're beautiful. Dee says, And I'm saying that with my whole chest, ass, tits, everything. Thank you. I'm a fellow mass hole, and I feel so connected when y'all talk about spooky references or locations in mass. However, there is one place I haven't heard you mention yet until now.
I'm still catching up on the pod, so if you have, please forgive me. You're forgiven. Spider Gate Cemetery was built in the 1700s, also known as the Eighth Gate to Hell. This place is known to be haunted and has super weird happenings.
She shared some spooky facts, but I already told them. So let me get to the story. Dee says, I am a full out spooky bitch all year round. I absolutely love fall. Yes. Halloween and supernatural phenomena. I love you, Dee. We love you. I run into some demons back in my day, but that's a story for another time. I feel you. What a casual sentence. Haven't we all?
So yeah. So here we go. I'm in my single hoe phase because a literal garbage human did me dirty. Oh, fuck that. I found nudes of another girl on his Nintendo DS. Shut the fuck up. You dodged a motherfucking bullet, my friend. Solid. Solid. That's a, see? Nicholas is like, yup, yup. I agree with you, Nicholas. Yes, you read that right. Stop. I am getting angry. I am getting angry, Nicholas.
You can't make this shit up. He's being so mean. You're friends with a bully. Your poltergeist mans is a bully. Oh. All right. Yes, you read that right. Nicholas is having a bad day. Maybe, no, maybe he meant stop. Like, that's crazy. Like, she found nudes on a DS. That's nuts. Yes, he read that right. Pixelated pictures of a girl's bare ass on a fucking DS. Damn. A grown ass man. So, yeah. Wow. I was done trying to find love and I hopped on Tinder. What can I say? I was having a moment.
That's where I met my date. We were supposed to be a hookup, but eventually my hopeless romantic tendencies started to creep up and I fell for this guy. And the voice of that GTA character. Oh, shit. Here we go again. I don't know that guy's voice. I'm sorry. At this point, we've been dating for about a month and he knows how much I love spooky shit. So he suggested we have a date at night in Spider Gate Cemetery. Wow, that's a keeper. I know. I hope he was good to you.
Oh, just wait. Okay. Y'all are probably thinking, you dumb bitch. You just met this guy and you're letting him take you to a cemetery in the woods? Meanwhile, I'm like, nailed it. Elena's like, you should have gone. Looking back, I realize how dangerous that was. I mean, yeah, it was. But at the end of the story, it will make it all okay. I promise. Okay. I didn't know much about Spider Gates, only that it was a haunted cemetery. But of course, I agreed to go there as any spooky bitch would. Hell yeah. Keep in mind, it's super dark outside, 1 a.m. Oh, damn. The only light came from the moon.
Oh, okay.
I love that he knew that. Yeah. He's just out here spitting knowledge about the cemetery. He's like, just so you know. He said from one spooky bitch to another. Yeah, he said contain them. Yeah. Dee said, girls, I could feel poop knocking on the back door. I was so fucking scared. We both walked together toward the center of the cemetery where the grass seemed to stop growing. The altar.
Please go.
What did he say? Please go. Please go. He doesn't want them to get hurt. He's like, leave. Yeah. We stood in the quiet embrace for what seemed like an hour. As I was hugging him, I looked over his shoulder to the tree line and I saw it. A foggy mist lingering among the trees resembling a human form. Oh. A bitch has astigmatism, so I didn't want to react right away. Me too. I don't. I closed my eyes and opened them again and the mist was gone. I brushed it off considering I can't read the license plate of a car that's in front of me when I'm sitting in traffic. We
Oh. Yeah.
Goodbye. Literally goodbye. Goodbye. A shiver went down my back, through my crack, and around the corner. I had never in my life been touched by a spirit, and it was the most natural yet unnatural feeling ever. That's when I ran over to my date and told him what happened, with the mist and with the touch. He was so amused while I was just shitting myself. So we took one last walk around the tombstones and decided it was time to leave. As we were heading toward the exit, I heard a scream coming from the forest.
Oh. Yeah.
As we left, I made sure those damn gates were shut. I said a small prayer so that the spirits wouldn't stick to me and we were out. Five years later, my date is now my husband. Oh, I knew it. I felt that in my bones. I knew it because I read it, but I just knew it. Oh, I just knew it. It was beautiful. I got pregnant on our honeymoon and my due date is December 2022. So this was written like a while ago. Oh my goodness. Congratulations. Congratulations.
To this day, I talk about that experience with my husband and he still laughs at how freaked out I got. But it's okay. I get him back with my constant jump scares and by hiding his video game controller. Hope y'all enjoyed my story. I love it. D. D. Damn. And Spidergate Cemetery. I want to go to Spidergate Cemetery.
I do too because I need to talk to Marmaduke girl. Yeah, I need to. And I need to hear what he has to say to me. I do too. I gotta know. And I don't think I'll pay the ferryman because I'm not trying to go to hell. I'm not trying to go to hell right now. Right now, she said. Right now. She just wanted to clarify. Iconic. Well, thanks, Nicholas, for joining us. Period. Thanks, Elena's friend, Nicholas. Thanks, Nicholas.
Do you have anything, any last comments that you want to leave everybody with, Nicholas? Do you have anything nice to say? Understand. Understand. Do you understand that I'm mad at you? I do not understand. Do you have anything else you want to say? No? Okay. We love you, Nicholas. Elena loves you. I love you. I tolerate you. Oh, wow. You speak really mean to me. Mikey's face was like, whoop.
I'm happy that he's here. You had a rough day. I'm tolerant. It was your first fight too. It was. It went a little deeper. Anyway, thanks for listening. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you get bullied by a paranormal ghost. Thanks. Bye. Love you, Nicholas. Stannic. What's that? Stannic? Stannic? It's not stannic. It's Nicholas Stannic.
What was bad? I mean more, Nick. What is, who's bad? Or what's bad? Are you done telling us? Okay. Alright.
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Hey, weirdos, if Ash and Elena's episode on Ken McElroy left you wondering how someone could become so cruel, manipulative, and untouchable, you'll want to hear my psychological breakdown of this case on my podcast, Killer Psyche. I examined the twisted mindset behind McElroy's reign of terror, how he exploited fear, used charm as a weapon, and turned an entire town into his victims.
Understanding what made him tick is exactly the kind of insight I bring on Killer Psyche, where I use my experience profiling criminals for the FBI to uncover what drives people like Ken McElroy to become predators. So if you're curious about the mind behind the mayhem, join me for an inside look at the psychology of a man who got away with everything until he didn't. Follow Killer Psyche on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.