FROM DELOITTE AND FASTCO WORKS: Racing Past Limits — A conversation with Deloitte’s Deb Golden and Professional Race Car Driver Toni Breidinger
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Hey, Most Innovative Company listeners. It's Josh here. Today we have the next episode in Lead Through Disruption, our special mini-series from our friends at Fastco Works and Deloitte. Enjoy! Brought to you by Deloitte Cyber and Strategic Risk. Helping your organization drive peak performance through crisis and transformation. So no matter where you're at in your journey, you can move forward fast.

I'm Deb Golden, Deloitte's U.S. Chief Innovation Officer, and this is Lead Through Disruption. As businesses look for new ways to maximize opportunities and innovate in a post-pandemic landscape, some of the strongest leaders emerging are those who've had to navigate and endure professional and personal disruptions in their lives. Through these challenging moments, these individuals have embraced curiosity, creativity, and the courage to think outside the box and have reimagined the possibilities of what could be.

They've forged new paths and have broken barriers that changed the way we experience the world today and see the potential of tomorrow. In finding their resilience, they've been able to turn these bold moves into lasting change and have inspired others at every level.

In today's episode, I'll be chatting with Toni Breidinger, a successful female professional race car driver in the United States Auto Club. Not only is she an incredible athlete who has made history as the first Arab-American female driver in NASCAR, but she also champions confidence, mental and physical wellness, and what it takes to operate at peak performance, racing past visible limits and charting new paths, paving the way for herself and so many others.

So thank you so much for joining us today, Tony. I think we'll just dive right into, you know, as we think about leading through disruption, obviously the podcast and what we're here to talk about, and you have absolutely led through disruption. And one of the key things that I think continue to drive us is our life experience. I often talk quite a bit about how our experience is what

creates that trajectory for us in our lives. And so I've read a lot about you and when you describe your first time in a go-kart, and that was the most pivotal moment for you to recognize your love for perhaps speed and also the racetrack. And so maybe can you give us a little bit of history about that defining moment and how it set you on your path that you're on today?

So I started go-karting when I was nine years old and basically started off as purely something just for fun, a family activity. My dad took me and my sister Annie to the go-kart track about Sonoma Raceway. And we both had...

Like no clue anything about racing. It was something that was just totally new for us, but we both fell in love with it. And for me, I think the biggest thing when I first got on the go-kart was I loved the sense of independence and freedom. And I remember I just kept wanting to do laps and laps and more laps. And I just got instantly addicted to it. And so did my sister and my

Yeah, the biggest thing for me is I just fell in love with the speed and kind of the thrill. And it was I just felt confident in the go kart. And it was cool. I felt like kind of almost like a superhero gave me this little confidence when I was little. So yeah.

Definitely a superpower. I think that the need for speed is certainly there. And I think one of the things, did you ever think about, and maybe not as a young child, but as you've gone through your career, did you ever think about in this realm how you might be changing the face of the sport? Obviously, you're challenging stereotypes along the way. Did it ever dawn on you or was just like, this is something I love, I'm going to keep doing it? And then, you know, with that, obviously, and as you've evolved over time, did you ever think about,

perhaps you've become more aware of that, but I'm curious just how has the thought of truly changing the face of the sport impacted you? Yeah, I would say when I was little, I was a little bit naive. I didn't think that I was doing anything different. Like I just was doing something that I love and I never saw myself as changing the game or like changing anything with the sport. And I really didn't,

I guess I wasn't really familiar with stereotypes at the time. Like for me, I was just doing what I love. I had never noticed that there wasn't many people that looked like me at the track. And so for me, I would say when I was little, I was a little bit more naive. And then I would say when I got to around maybe like 13 years old, once I got to become a teenager, then I feel like I kind of hopped on social media. And I feel like then you start reading like comments and I was like, oh, there's

all these stereotypes, people are saying that girls can't race and all this stuff. And I kind of got more of understanding that I wasn't doing something in the norm, but yeah, definitely when I first started racing, I was just doing something that I love and I still am, but I'm definitely a lot more aware of, you know, this isn't the norm, something kind of like out of the box and I am kind of paving a path.

I would go so far as to say you're courageously challenging the status quo. I mean, you've made history as the first Arab-American female NASCAR driver. You've dreamt big, leaning into that art. I mean, it's a lot to put on. You said when you were 13, you started to realize some of the challenges.

That's a lot to put on a 13-year-old as you think about how to adapt to the facing headwinds, particularly, I think, when you think about things like social media and there's so much impact. You mentioned comments. When you think about whether it be people not knowing anything about you, just making comments behind a screen, whether it be you reading somebody's feedback that might be anonymous to you, but also just, I'm sure, the huge amount of support that you've got in your career as you continue to push these boundaries

Was there ever a point when you said, is it really worth it? How do I know that just continuing to move forward is the right way to candidly create a pathway that never existed?

I would say for me, it's always been worth it because racing is something that I've always loved doing. And for me, I never felt like I was making any sacrifices pursuing this career. I mean, I definitely have, but I love it so much. And I don't see that I'm making a sacrifice. I see that I'm like doing something to help like further me or like take that next step in my career to like, you know, help improve me as a race car driver. So yeah, it's like, I never, I never felt like I was making sacrifices. Yeah.

What fits in the improve me to be a race car driver? I have to know what are the tips and tricks? What is the both mental and physical stamina that you do to help improve in that capacity? Yeah. So like you said, racing is very, you know, mentally and physically demanding. So on the mental side of things, I do different things from, you know, like journaling in the morning and, you know, showing gratitude. And then when I'm in the gym, like forcing myself to do that extra rep. And when

When you're out on the racetrack, you're under so much pressure from your team and you have like fans that are supporting you and your coaches. So I think you're under so much like mental stress that I think grounding yourself in the morning is really important for me. And then also, you know, in a race, you can't just stop.

Like you can't stop to like the checkered flag. So if you're in the gym and you want to stop, it's like, that's not really an option on the racetrack. So I kind of push myself that extra little bit. I'm like, if I can't do this here, I can't do it on the racetrack. So it's kind of like two parts mentally. And then physically kind of how I mentioned before, you know, cardio strength training. I have a simulator that I go on. So there's so many different pieces to the puzzle to be, you know, a successful race car driver. I mean, I'm in awe. I mean, I think it takes just such mental agility to be able to make

literally life-depending second questions. Like every second, it's, you know, is it raining? What's the weather? What's the trajectory? Is something going on with my car? Let alone all these other pressures in the external world. What is someone thinking? I am racing with a team, but also against a team. And so I think just the capacity of

so many different physical and mental perspectives coming at you has to be a challenge, I think, in and of itself. And one of the things I want to pull a thread on, you talked about journaling and showcasing gratitude. One of the things that I think is truly important to us as humanity is the notion of self-reflection. And so as you think about your own reflection, as you think about consistently performing at a high level and having so much pressure and

there has to be a moment where you're like, to your point, I can't just stop in the middle of the race. I mean, I guess you could, that would be a sight in and of itself, but you really, you really can't stop. And so you kind of almost also have to be telling yourself, even throughout the race, keep going. Like, what do you do in the moment? So in the moment when something is not going its way, you have to make a decision in a second. Like you literally have seconds to make some of these critical decisions. So how do you train your brain under such pressure to

to make decisions that quickly, not knowing candidly what the outcome's gonna be. - Yeah, I mean, when you're racing, so much can happen in front of you where you have to react really fast. You can have a wreck in front of you. For instance, I just raced at Daytona, you're going 185 miles per hour. So if someone's wrecking, you can't just stop and you have to make that decision. And you have a spotter that's kind of like your eyes

around the racetrack and that kind of helps guide you, but you still are the one behind the wheel making that decision. So I think you always just kind of have to be on your toes for something like that and

kind of going back to like showing gratitude. Like I think the biggest thing for me is like, I feel like that helps with me being present. I almost have to be calm to make really precise and fast decisions, which is kind of sounds like it's counterintuitive, like calm, but like you have to react really fast. So I think practicing things like, you know, being really present and, you know, journaling and being calm kind of helps me make those fast

split second decisions. And I think you always can have to be looking at things in a perspective of like a positive light in a way. I think if you're always looking like, oh, if I go here, I'm going to wreck, then you are going to wreck. But if you think, oh, I'll go here and like, I'm going to get by, then it's kind of like looking at the glass half empty versus full. I think that kind of like helps decide your fate on things sometimes. Yeah. And you had me at being present in order to be calm. It's something, you know, I would...

sustain as our grit factors, the things that our experiences provide to us. And I too also maybe very differently, while I appreciate everything you're doing around the racetrack, I'm not running around a racetrack at 185 miles an hour, but having that innate ability to adaptively bring order to situational chaos. I mean, a race in and of itself is always going to be chaotic

There's lots of things happening. There's lots of things that could go right. There's lots of things that could go wrong. And your ability to think in the moment by probably being as calm as possible in and of itself is not only chaotic, but you've got to kind of fine tune that. And I think having that self-awareness and that insatiable desire, like you mentioned, to be able to, well, if I do this, I am going to bounce forward, not backwards, right? So I think being able to have that fortitude and recognize that is

by the way, is applicable whether you're racing around the racetrack or you're in an entirely different profession, having that reflection is certainly, I think, going to be advantageous to all of your competitors because you really are thinking about not just that immediate risk, but how can you create your own opportunity. Exactly. Often it's

Bold moves, right? We're really solving really tough problems. Your tough problems will look different than my tough problems. But nonetheless, we're trying to find a way to make those problems be opportunities. And as you think about creating these environments, obviously, it probably also has failure in it.

Because to your point, I know I saw some of the race from this past weekend, you could have mechanical errors that you would never even know about. Have nothing to do with you. Candidly, it could have to do with the weather. Maybe it's something completely out of your control, but it may cause in your mind something that is not gonna go the way that you intended it to. And so when you think about

how high the stakes are and the margin for error is so low in what you do. How do you create that environment even mentally for yourself that says, okay, things didn't go my way today. So how do you kind of build yourself back in to not only learn from that moment, but to continue to let yourself to fail forward? I would say the biggest thing for me is I feel like sometimes I'm, you know, my biggest kind of enemy. Sometimes I am

I'm kind of critical with how I do, especially when it comes to racing. So I think the biggest thing for me is surrounding myself with really positive people because sometimes I'm not a positive person. So, yeah, I think just surrounding yourself with really positive people like for me this past weekend, I felt like my team did a great job. I did a great job. Like we did everything that we could possibly do. Great job.

But then there was that factor of having mechanical problems. That's out of our control. But I mean, it's still easy to kind of get down about that. But for me, like my crew chief and my team in itself is very positive. And they kind of say like, well, you did your part and you did really great. And they kind of like...

think it's just important to surround yourself with really positive people because I think if I didn't have them, I'd be dwelling on it the entire way home because I'm not always that positive person for myself. So I really think it's important who you surround yourself with for sure. How do you find people? Do you have people in your inner circle that are outside the race circle? And how do you lean on them to help you with that motivation?

Yeah, I would say, you know, my sister Annie, she doesn't race anymore, but she used to race. So I feel like she's kind of the first person that I go to because she still gets it. She is always positive. So I would say I would lean on my family. Obviously, my team is a great option at the track, but I'm always very in touch with my family. And I think

It's sometimes hard to find out who those positive people are in your life. Because I know for me, like I've had friends before that I love them. Like they're great friends. I'm like, you know what? I don't think this is beneficial for me. Like they're like a little bit toxic or negative sometimes. And it's sometimes hard to identify because I think sometimes when you're surrounded by negativity, like you don't really see it because you're just like almost used to it. And you kind of like have adapted your brain to thinking like them. So it's hard. But yeah, I would say like,

Always surround yourself with like really positive people that, oh, like looking at the glass half empty versus full. If they're always looking at the glass half empty, then they're probably not the best person to surround yourself with. So it is hard sometimes. I mean, it's not always easy to find those friends and we have to like search for them a little bit.

I do try to find the optimism, even in some of the most negative situations. And so even that toxicity, not only does it test you, but it probably also teaches you in the moment because I'm guessing in that moment, you didn't think, well, these are toxic humans. I probably shouldn't have these relationships. But now perhaps you've learned a little bit more about the traits or the situations or the circumstances. And ultimately those things

situations also become fertile training grounds for you and your evolution in who you are and what you want to do out in both the racetrack and personally. And so I think understanding what those areas are is equally as important as trying to be able to predict them and to be able to deal with them because it's not like

once you deal with someone in this particular situation, like you were explaining in a toxic situation, it's not like you're going to live the rest of your life with never having that situation again. And so maybe that experience is giving you the tools for you to kind of continue to master and thrive regardless of the situation. Because again, I just recognize that that situation is going to continue to pop up. May not look exactly the same, but it's certainly something you can learn from. And I think you are certainly a role model for young people

across the globe in terms of, I have a dream to want to be in a race car and this is what I want to do. How do you explain to people, like find your grit, find your passion. Like how do you harness that moment? Whether it's in the moment of the go-kart, whether it's something else that's a passion, how do you help individuals see that

kind of harnessing the passion is going to help you thrive in no matter what you do. Grit kind of comes from within and, you know, so does passion. Like you can't force yourself to be passionate about something.

you're either passionate or you're not. So I mean, for me, like when I was younger, I was trying so many different sports and I wasn't really passionate about it until I got into go-kart. Like I was just kind of like, whatever, like I don't really, like I wouldn't care less if I didn't go to soccer practice that day or not. But if I could do another lap in a go-kart, I was going to be like super bummed. So I think you can't really teach yourself grit for something you either have or you don't. And I mean, it's hard. You can't create passion for something if it's not

there. Like I feel like it's something that has to like naturally be there. And I think I got very fortunate that I found something that I was passionate about at such a young age, because sometimes, you know, people go through their entire life until they find something they're passionate about. You can't force it. It just happens. And I feel like if you're looking, trying to be passionate about something, you're almost working against yourself. It just has to really come naturally and from within. It's not really something somebody can teach you in a sense.

And I think the notion of it's candidly the combination of both perseverance and passion that's going to ultimately fuel an individual's performance. And so I think if there's challenges along the way that help you overcome, it's because of that perseverance and passion that you're going to continue at it. Because if you fall down and you don't love what you're doing to try and be better, quicker, faster at what you're doing, then

you might easily either give up or decide that it's not something that you really want to influence and encourage yourself along the way. So I definitely believe that there's a combination of grit, that perseverance, that passion. And so when you think about, again, let's go back to the team around you.

It sounds like you've had, obviously, some very positive experiences as well with not only working with others, but collaboration. And again, the racetrack is for sure collaboration at its highest, right? There's so many things that go into this. I mean, if you even just think of pit crew strategy, right? Things that are happening when you're not even in the car that you need to understand. And you're putting a lot of trust into the humans that are around you. And so maybe you could talk a little bit just about

Obviously, you have such an immense impact on others, but the fact that there's so many other people in your day-to-day that have an immense impact to you that you may not even see. So how does that shape and how do you candidly build some of that trust? Because that pit crew strategy better be on point as you hop into the car and you've kind of built that trust with the people that were closest to you. So maybe you could talk a little bit about just leveraging your network and really building on that trust.

Yeah, I would say like this past weekend, for example, this was my first time ever working with the crew chief that I had. So you don't really have time to build trust sometimes. Like I can't go into Daytona not fully trusting my crew chief. It just has to like happen already. So I feel like you almost have to let your guard down. And for me in racing, like I don't like I feel like if you don't fully trust somebody, then you're not going to succeed. You're going to have like this guard up and you're not going to succeed together. So you just have to kind of let your walls down and just

just trust somebody, even if you don't totally know, like if you can trust them, like you just kind of have to, and you just have to let your walls down. And I think the easiest way to do it is to just let your walls down, which is easier said than done for sure though. Yes, that is often easier said than done, but I think it's critical. I mean, to any relationship trust is,

absolutely a factor and particularly when you're putting your life candidly in the trust of others. So being able to get there as quickly as possible is going to be for the betterment of everyone, yourself included. We'll be right back after this short message from Deloitte Cyber and Strategic Risk.

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I've read a bit about how your dad has had an immense impact on you just in your career and helping you on your path. And it sounds like your sister, I've also read about her and the fact that she's been there for you and your support system. So who is your mentor? So when you think about, and it may change from day to day, but in addition to your family, who is your mentor and what are the things that you're looking at continuing to evolve? Yeah.

Yeah, I would say, you know, my family, they're my biggest supporters. I lean a lot on my dad, my mom and my sister, all three different things. And kind of going back to mentor, I don't really think I necessarily see any of them as a mentor, because none of them have really been in my shoes with what I'm doing. So I definitely lean on them for support and for advice. But personally,

they can't really be my mentor in a sense that none of them have been race car drivers. My parents didn't get into racing until I did, until their kids were in it. So I say I don't really necessarily have a mentor. And actually, the biggest questions that I get is like, do you have a mentor within the sport? And there really hasn't been that many females in the sport. Danica Patrick has been the biggest one. So there's not really that much opportunity for mentorship within racing. And yeah, I feel like I'm still kind of looking for that mentor because I think

Sometimes being a female in the sport has its disadvantages because the guy racers aren't always going to relate to you or they're not always going to understand your intentions. If you are asking for advice, they might think otherwise. So it's kind of hard to find a mentor within the sport. So I'm honestly still looking for one. But, you know, in the meantime, I'm constantly leaning on my sister, my dad and my family in general.

I feel like we could have very similar conversations, but about two totally separate worlds, which I mean, is also interesting, I think, just in terms of how we champion for one another as you think about, I mean, so you mentioned you may not have that mentor today, but again, the fact that you're a mentor to so many people, I mean, you are literally creating

new pathways. You're creating new access. You're creating someone who can look up and say, I want to be like her. I want to be the, not now the first, but maybe the second, the third and the hundredth female Arab American driver. And so your diversity is impacting. I think it's upon us as trailblazers to be able to actually challenge the understanding of quote unquote normal. I think normal is a myth. And I think it's because

you know, again, everybody's perception of what normal is, is completely different. And so maybe perhaps the friction that you're creating with change and resistance and quote unquote, the perception of normal is actually the right approach, right? Yeah. All right. So let's go with that real quick. What if you are like one on your worst day, like when you absolutely just worst day, what is the phrase or catch mantra that you say to yourself to keep going? I would say,

I would say if I'm having a bad day, something that I've done in the past is I've kind of like written down like all my accomplishments because something I struggled with last season in particular was kind of having imposter syndrome and not really feeling like I belong. So I had a therapist tell me, you know, make like a brag sheet, write down everything that you've accomplished. And then you're going to write down this entire list. And it's something like, oh, wow, like I actually do belong. I've accomplished so much and I came this far. Why stop now?

Well, I mean, you continue to just change the dynamic in so many ways. I mean, whether that's

That's racing, you've traversed into many different components of the world, including modeling and taking different leaps into different territories with really both of those having high levels of uncertainty. And so think about how much more change you're going to affect by being that positive force. And again, I will just tell you being in your circle for this little bit of time, you certainly are a force multiplier when it comes to channeling your passion and being able to create new access. So thank you for that.

All right. We're going to get into a couple of lightning round questions, which whatever is first that comes to mind, some of these may cause you to think a little bit more maybe than first word, because I've often been told that when I do these lightning round questions, people are like, Debra, that was really challenging. So they're not intended to be challenging, but just whatever comes to your mind. And so we talked about a little bit, I was talking about debunking misleading myths and the art of the normal and how we

can challenge orthodoxies in the world. And so as you reflect on the art of the possible, beyond what you do today and all the things possible, what is a myth that you would like to tackle or unmake?

I would say the first one that comes to my mind is that guys are better athletes than females or like better at something. Like I think we can do everything they can just as good or even better. So I think that's a myth that I like to tackle. What is the last thing that you've done that really pushed you out of your comfort zone, but left you feeling incredibly fulfilled and satisfied in the end? I would say...

say, this was kind of over the summer, but the first thing that came to my mind was I have a really big fear of heights. And I went to this place that has kind of like obstacle courses and they have this one where this is a very long answer. But they basically have this 50 foot drop

You have like a harness on and stuff, but you can't jump. You can't run off. You just have to take like a step off, which I think was worse. Like I wish I could just like jump off and like, you know, curl up in a little ball and just like do it. But you just have to take a step and then you just drop straight down. And I have a huge fear of heights. I felt like my body physically would not like I was shaking bad, but I finally did it after, you know, I probably stood up there for like a good 15 minutes and I had my friends cheering me on down there. But yeah,

Once I did it, I was so relieved. And I was like, I did it. Like I just did something that was so out of my comfort zone. And then I feel like the more you do things out of your comfort zone, it becomes in your comfort zone. And that's kind of like your new standard. So that's a moment where I felt kind of like relieved and proud of myself.

As you think about today's day and age, I mean, there's so much available on social media. Digital transformation has enabled so many new things today that we didn't have two years ago, let alone a year ago. If there's one thing that you're like, oh, I had that idea or I wish I could have created it. Like, what is that thing? You're like, oh, that was my idea or I wish I had created that.

That's a good question. I would say something that I love on social media is kind of like the support pages and like the women's like sports pages. I think that's really cool that there's like a place and you kind of like put a spotlight on all these female athletes or female race car drivers. I think that's really cool. And honestly, I never thought of doing that. Like I think it's easy to always think about like yourself and your social media and like your presence on social media. But it's really cool to like uplift other females because I feel like it's a win-win situation.

Yeah, I think it would be well needed. So if you want to keep doing up with the support pages, I feel like particularly for women at times, there's the notion that everybody's quote unquote fighting for the same spot when in fact there's hundreds and thousands of spots that we all need to have that encouragement for one another.

All right, the last one on the lightning round question will be, and we talked a lot about obviously family. A lot of your career was jump-started with go-karting when you were younger. If you had one thing that you could say to your younger self, I know we often think about

It's not about woulda, coulda, shoulda, but as you think about your younger self, as you think about disruptions, as you think about the world and society today, and a young girl that might be listening to this podcast, what would you say to either your younger self or to them as you think about so much that's happening in the world today? Yeah. I mean, there's so much that I would want to say to my younger self. But I'd say the biggest thing would be

And don't be afraid to be the first you. I think especially once I got to kind of like my teenage years, I was like a little bit insecure and I felt out of place at some times. And I always wanted to fit in. Like I was always trying to like, you know, look like this person, do something like this person. And I never fully embraced who I was as a person until like honestly a couple of years ago. So yeah, like don't be afraid to be the first you. Don't try to fit in this box. Pave the path and just be fearless about it.

It's super interesting too, again, that we've got individuals in our lives that help encourage that, particularly when you go through all of our awkward teenage years, by the way, not just your awkward, everybody's awkward teenage years. I think it's a

and challenging time of our lives. For me particularly, my mother had passed away when I was a teenager. And so it was incredibly difficult there. But I think when you think about to your point and I would agree, not only embracing that, but finding that voice and being comfortable with that is a challenge, let alone throw in life, throw in teenage years, throw in disruptions that's happening and everything else now that is thoroughly available on social media.

It makes for a pretty challenging point in anyone's lives. And so I think being able to help younger selves, all of our younger selves and the younger generation find confidence to help them build their strength and their resilience. And I love your comment around being able to create and don't be afraid to be the first because we need lots of firsts. We do. I mean, we have so much challenge in the world. We need lots of firsts to help us continue to change the dialogue and to look at changing the

the disruption that's happening in the world around us. So thank you for challenging yourself continually. I appreciate that. All right. All right. And I love to end with the same question. I end the podcast with the same question. And again, not intended to throw you for a loop, but as you think about

If you had to nail it down to one thing, and I know there's so many things that make you who you are and make the situation that you're in what it is. But if you think about the one thing, the one trait, the one characteristic that has best enabled you to lead through either your personal life or your professional life as you think about disruption and really coming out as a change agent, because that is truly what you are. What would be the single most important trait or characteristic that one, you have, and two, that you've honed to continue to evolve?

Might be the same one, by the way. Yeah, I would say my ambition, which some people might just say it's me being naive, but I've never thought that something was too far-fetched for me to go do. Like, I always believe that if I put my mind to something, I can do it no matter what. Like, if I wanted to be, let's say, like, the president or a singer, like, I would fully believe that I can go be, like, the biggest pop star or, like, the president one day. Like, I've always just thought that I can achieve anything, and I think it's, like...

it came down to like my ambition. Like I never thought anything was too large and I thought as long as I put the work towards it, I can do it. Um, which again, that might also be me being naive, but, um, yeah, I would say that's kind of carried me through. I don't think it's being naive. I think it's actually being quite brave and quite passionate because you are absolutely breaking grounds and you're doing it at 185 miles an hour around a racetrack. So I appreciate all that you're doing.

Tony, and it's been an absolute pleasure to spend this time chatting with you today. So thank you. Thank you for having me. This was really fun. Tony Breidinger's story is one of fierce competitiveness grounded in self-confidence, and she's been chasing her dreams since the age of nine and doing so at speeds of up to 300 kilometers per hour. Thank you, Tony, for sharing your story and challenging the normalcy of some societal myths, further unlocking the art of the possible beyond the status quo.

Lead Through Disruption is produced by FASCO Works in collaboration with Deloitte Cyber and Strategic Risk. Our show was produced by Avery Miles and Matt Toder, as well as editor Nicholas Torres. We'll be back with more incredible stories from disruptors who are positively impacting change in business, culture, and society. We hope their journeys filled with curiosity, courage, and resilience inspire your own as they have countless others. I'm your host, Deb Golden. Thanks for listening.