223 - The Infamous Interrogation of Ryan Waller
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Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. This week has been such a long week. Like it feels like it's been so long since we last recorded, but I feel a lot better just sitting down right here. I feel like we have a community of love and support. So thank you so much for making this be the place that I want to go after a long week. We just wanted to say thanks to everyone who is supporting us.

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can't say that oh my gosh people really want you to tell the story i should have paused a little bit longer just to see if everyone was like oh my gosh i keep telling him that you guys keep sending in a request for him to do it and he just he won't do it i will do one eventually one of these days okay but what's your real 10 seconds my real 10 seconds a couple i'm still playing pickleball our lawn is still green and the last one is the other day i was scrolling through the dms

And there's a DM that said a group of us, a group of guys, they listen to the podcast and it's a bunch of construction workers and they all work on it while they're building homes. I don't know exactly. I forgot because it was a while ago. Yeah. And I just tried to find it, but I couldn't find it. But he said, if you could do a shout out, that'd be awesome. I thought it was, I thought it'd be pretty funny if they're all like working it. Anyways. So I saw the DM shout out. I did.

I had no idea. I had no idea. Our DMs have been very packed and we are very behind and they've been flooded. And so we're trying our best, but just know that we are seeing your messages and you are not forgotten about because there are a lot in there right now. Anyways, I hope they're listening to this. Yeah, me too.

Okay, so our case sources this week is some YouTube videos, This is Monsters, Explore With Us, The Waller Family, and then also CelebSaga.com, Medium.com, MaricopaCountyAttorney.org, and Legacy.com. So our case this week begins in 2006 in Glendale, Arizona.

It's actually Christmas Day and families everywhere are spending time together on their days off. But specifically, father and husband, Don Waller, is looking forward to Christmas dinner that night with all of his children. But as dinner starts and the Waller's adult son, 18-year-old Ryan Waller, fails to show up for the family dinner, the whole entire family is confused.

They try calling but they get no answer and their confusion turns into worry when the night comes to a close and they still haven't seen or heard from their son Ryan. Don decides to head over to his son's apartment in the late hours of Christmas night but he also actually calls the police to have them come along and be the ones to conduct the welfare check on his son at his apartment in Phoenix. So with Don Waller waiting outside the police arrive at the apartment and

They knock, but no one answers. They announce themselves and knock again. And this is when they hear the deadbolt unlock from the other side of the door. Standing there at the door is missing Ryan Waller himself. He's alive, but he does have an intense bruise over one eye that is now like completely swollen shut. Like you can't even see his eyeball. He also has some other minor scratches and bruises to his face.

The police ask him, like, hi, are you Ryan Waller? And he doesn't reply. He just looks at them. They tell him they are here to conduct a welfare check because his father called them because he missed the family's Christmas dinner that night. And once again, Ryan really doesn't respond. He just kind of stares at the police.

They look inside the house from the front porch, kind of like looking around him. And they notice a woman laying on the couch. They ask Ryan, okay, hey, what happened to your eye? Like, why is it black? Why is it swollen shut? And once again, he says nothing. I wonder, it sounds like there's almost someone behind him.

Well, there is a woman laying on the couch behind him. A little on edge, the police ask him, hey, is that your girlfriend Heather on the couch? They tell him your dad told us that she was supposed to come along too, that you had been with her. So we're checking to make sure she's okay too. And Ryan responds with, I don't know. He says, I don't know who that is on the couch. They ask him, okay, well, is that woman back there sleeping?

And Ryan becomes defensive. He says he doesn't know. He becomes very annoyed with them. He's being short. He's rolling his eyes. Police tell him, hey, well, we need to go inside. We need to check on her too. Like we're here for your girlfriend, Heather too. Ryan becomes agitated with them at this point. He says, he says, no, he's like, no, you can't come in. And they say, okay, Ryan, calm down. We're the police and we get to come in because we need to

like perform this welfare check. But Ryan really isn't using like complete sentences. It's more just like short answers. He just seems very annoyed with cops. Eventually the police tell him he's going to have to move over so they can check on her. And so he does step aside upon entry into Ryan's apartment. Phoenix police come upon a disturbing scene.

21-year-old Heather Kwan, Ryan Waller's girlfriend, is on the couch, but it's pretty clear to police that she is not asleep or alive or well. Oh, she's dead, huh? Heather is dead on the living room couch. Okay. Police noted that she had been shot in the head. Don Waller, Ryan's father, is waiting outside for any news. He is relieved when the front door opens and the police walk out with what appears to be his son.

The bruise on the side of Ryan's face kind of made him do a double take, but after a second look, he confirms that is his son, Ryan Waller, walking out with police. The relief Don feels is quickly overcome with confusion when he also notices that the police are escorting his son, Ryan, out of the apartment in handcuffs. Ryan is taken to a police car and put into the back seat of it, like basically in holding.

Phoenix police had dispatched paramedics for Heather to also assess the situation. And when they arrived shortly after around 1.30 a.m., they rush in to tend to Heather. But they, too, confirm Heather's status and they deem her too far gone. Like there's nothing they can do. The responders walk back out to their vehicle and they drive away. This seems too simple. Like...

Like he just answered the door. His girlfriend's dead on the couch inside. Like it seems like he's annoyed. He doesn't want him to come in. Right. There's going to be more to the story. Well,

I'll find out. So why was Ryan Waller what appeared to be injured, but sitting handcuffed in the back of a police car while paramedics drove away? Police say that after finding Heather dead on the couch, they asked him what happened. He once again wouldn't talk much. He just kept saying he didn't know. Almost like he's in shock. Almost like he's in shock.

They ask him why he was in there with her dead on the couch and like didn't call the police. He ignores them. He says he doesn't know. He doesn't know. When he would talk, he would like kind of contradict his last sentence.

He doesn't know what happened, but he mentions the names Alicia and Eric like out of the blue. He just starts mentioning these people. The strange behavior from a very conscious and coherent and also alive Ryan combined with his dead girlfriend on the couch made police suspicious and they immediately look at him as a suspect.

They quickly assumed that Ryan and Heather had gotten into a fight that morning that escalated to him shooting her. And so they're going to bring him in for questioning. What I thought is weird is it didn't seem like he was trying to hide her. Well, he was like annoyed and agitated, but it was very obvious there was a woman on the couch behind him. He didn't like put her in a different room. He didn't put like a blanket over her when someone knocked on the door? Nothing. But he was defensive when the police got there. Yeah.

So as Don Waller stands outside watching the scene unfold, which is police investigating the crime scene, the medical examiner looking at Heather Kwan's lifeless body inside, Ryan Waller is eventually driven away to the police station to be interrogated.

He had been sitting in the back of the police car for over three hours as they like sat there and worked the crime scene, got the paramedics there, sent them away. Um, and they eventually arrived with him at the station around 5:00 AM. So we are now going to dissect the infamous hour long interrogation footage of Ryan Waller.

And this footage is what breaks this case. So hold on to your seats. Every detail in this interrogation is vital, which is why we will be dissecting it. We will try to insert some of this footage onto YouTube and maybe some audio clips here and there. So the footage begins with Ryan alone, sitting alone in the interrogation room. He is now changed into a white jumpsuit. He's handcuffed to the table with one arm.

He has a very noticeable large and graphic bruise to one of his eyes. It's so large that you can see that his eye is swollen shut from the corner camera that's in the room. He also has noticeable bruises on his face. As he sits alone in the room, you can tell that he's uncomfortable, he's agitated, and occasionally he lets out like

these short moans like, or sighs or moans. Like he's just, he's not talking. He's just kind of letting out these noises. He stands up and sits down multiple times, but he's still handcuffed to the table. So every time he stands up, he like gets tugged on and then he sits back down. I think it's strange that he hasn't denied anything yet. Like it wasn't me. I don't know what happened or nothing. Nothing. Just, I don't know. I don't know. Throws a few names out.

Eventually, a detective comes into the room to take some pictures of Ryan. And it's during these pictures that Ryan talks really for the first time in the footage. I just want to go home. You're not going to go home right now.

They're like, hey, can you turn to the side? And he'll turn and then just say, I just want to go home. I just want to go to sleep. I just want to go home. That's all he's saying. The detective kind of mumbles back to Ryan at this point. You can hear him. And he says, you should go to the doctor if you're going anywhere. And Ryan's like, why? Is it because of my eye? And he's like, yeah. And Ryan says, is my eye bad? And the detective tells him, yeah, I would say it's really bad.

During all of this, Ryan is still periodically letting out like these weird noises. Eventually, another detective comes in to start the interrogation. And one of the first things he asks Ryan is if he knows why he's in here and being questioned. Ryan says no. He's fidgety and distressed. He can't stop moving. And from an outside perspective, it's almost like he's really annoyed that he's sitting in there being questioned. Has he not looked in the mirror at his eye? No.

He didn't know what his eye looked like. Yeah. But it's swollen shut. Like he can't eat it. And it's big. Like the bruise is almost half of his face. I can just imagine him going like, is it bad? Yeah. He points up to it and he goes, is it really bad? Okay. When the detective begins to read Ryan, his Miranda rights, he asks Ryan if he's ever seen cops or CSI to try to explain to him like what he's doing. And Ryan goes, no. And the detective is like, you haven't seen cops. And he's like, no.

He goes, okay, well, I'm reading you your rights. And then Ryan goes, yes, I have seen it. So the detective's already like, okay. After the detective reads Ryan his rights, he asks him, okay, what's the highest grade you made it into school? Like he's trying to get some details on Ryan. He's, I mean, detectives do this. They like set up a relationship with them first before they jump right into the heavy questions. Right. So he says, what's the highest grade you made it to in school?

And Ryan says, I don't know. I don't know. And he's like, well, like, did you like, did you graduate? What's the highest grade? And he says, eighth grade. Did you graduate? Yeah. Have they talked to the dad at this point? Yes, they've talked to him, but not a, not a ton. Like they just said, we're taking him in for questioning basically. Um, so the detective says, did you, do you have a GED? I don't know. You don't know what? I don't know.

I don't know. I just want to go home. You're not going to go home right now. He basically just, he wants to go home. He wants, that's how it feels. Yes. So the detective asks Ryan, okay, um, do you have a girlfriend? And Ryan just kind of goes, he then asks if he knows Heather because Heather is the woman on the couch. And so he's, the detective is kind of like, he's ignoring me. So I've got to start jumping into like these questions. So he says, do you know Heather? And Ryan says, mm-hmm.

And he says, okay, what's Heather's last name? And he says, mm-hmm. What in the world is going on? He says, okay, what's the last name? And Ryan's like, I don't know her last name. And he's like, you don't know Heather's last name. And he goes, it's Kyman, which is not Heather's last name. And he says he can't spell Kyman. He's like, it's Kyman. Okay, can you spell Kyman? And he's like, no. So the detective's like,

Why is he lying about these simple things that don't matter? Like he knows Heather, but he's not telling me her real last name. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't sound like he's there at all. Exactly. The detective is like obviously suspicious of this behavior. Ryan is acting like he barely knows Heather, even though Heather was just found in his house where she was murdered. Ryan was dating Heather. And no matter what happened at that house, he would have feelings about what he's being asked. But

but he's acting like he wasn't even there. He's like not even pretending to care. He asks how old Heather is and Ryan says 16 or 17. We know Heather is 21 years old.

The detective asks more questions about Heather and the majority of the answers from Ryan are, I don't know, or sentences that don't really make much sense like we've seen before. Okay. All right, you guys, we are getting into an ad and this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now my self-care non-negotiable is I always go on a hot girl walk most nights of the week. It really helps me clear my head, move my body and get fresh air.

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I don't know. I think it was Heather. Why would Heather hit you? I don't know. It was an accident. I forget why. What was an accident? Heather's last name? No. What was an accident?

Heather hitting me. He just completely jumped back to the subject they were talking about earlier. Yeah. Even though they had moved on to Heather hitting him. So do they keep interviewing him? Are they going to just stop and be like, we need to take a break? Well, so I think the detective here is thinking this is pretty common. Like sometimes...

If they're questioning someone, they'll go in and they'll purposely act like this or they'll, they'll purposely lie or be defensive or be like too smart for the detective. And it's not like, I mean, he's acting agitated. He's, he's like frustrated. He's raising his voice. He's like, I don't know. I don't know. Like he's acting annoyed. And so I think the detective is also on edge. You know what I mean? Yeah. So despite the confusion, the randomness and the irritation in Ryan's voice, um,

The detective keeps on asking about the injury, but his answers only get worse from here. Ryan says that Heather hit him with her hand. And then when he's asked why, he replies with, she was helping Christina with her head doing her hair. And the detective is like, Ryan, who is Christina? And Ryan says, she's on the couch.

And the detective asks, okay, what's Christina's last name? Like, what does Christina look like? And Ryan raises his voice and in a very annoyed tone says, I don't know. I really don't know, man.

So confused so the detective asks more questions about this new Christina, but after some more annoyed I don't knows the detective displays frustration. He begins shaking his head. You can tell he's annoyed He's probably so confused as well and he's just annoyed with Ryan's behavior like Ryan's not answering any questions Ignoring him half the time so at this point the detective starts asking Ryan about a couple different people that he had like mentioned earlier back at the crime scene and

And Ryan claims to know none of them. So after some back and forth of this, the detective just jumps right to the point. He's annoyed. You can tell he's annoyed. So he just jumps right to it. He asks Ryan what happened last night. What happened last night? I don't know. You don't know? I really don't. I just want to go to sleep and go to sleep. Oh.

The detective tries asking more questions about Christina on the couch and Ryan says no, Heather was on the couch. Oh my gosh, this is giving me a headache. So when the detective confronts him about the contradiction in his statement, he's like, Ryan, you just said Christina was on the couch. Ryan once again raises his voice. He's moving, he's agitated, he's slamming down in his chair and he says, I don't know, I just want to go to sleep, man. I just want to go to sleep. The detective asks, okay, Ryan,

We're gonna start over what happened last night. He's like, I don't know. The detective is like, why is your nose all beat up? He's like, I don't know. Who is Heather? Eric's girlfriend.

Okay, Heather's Eric's girlfriend. No, she's my girlfriend. I don't know. I don't know. I just want to go to sleep. I don't know. I don't know how the detective is still asking him questions. I'd be so frustrated. I'm frustrated and you're just listening to this. So once again, the detective asks, okay, let's go back to what he just said. So Heather hit you in the eye, right? Like you said that earlier, Heather hit you in the eye. Ryan goes, no, Alicia did.

He's just saying random names. What is going on? So the detective asks, okay, then why did Alicia hit you? And he says, she probably hit it on something. Confused, the detective asks, hit what on something? And he's like, I don't know. I don't know.

So as you can tell, this interrogation is going in circles. It's not cohesive. It's not productive, but it's as if the old, like only the detective knows that it seems like Ryan isn't even comprehending or recognizing how his story is changing. Yeah. Like he can't even keep up with the conversation enough to realize that he just said it was Heather and then Alicia and then Christina. Only the detective is like,

Am I real? Like, is this happening right now? Is this what's really going on? So the detective just flat out kind of tells Ryan in a very forceful voice, you know that girl in your house is dead. That girl that was behind you in the house, she's dead. And Ryan says, Heather? And the detective says, you tell me. And Ryan says, the girl on the couch is dead? And he says, I don't know if she's on the couch. Ryan then says something that will confuse everyone even more. Well, these people came over...

Richie and his dad with shootin' arrow bow and darts. You know what I'm talkin' about? Yeah. They hit me and her with those. That's it. And Heather wasn't there. And Eric wasn't there. It was just me...

and Heather. - It's like he's in a dream right now. - Yes. So Ryan has now been in the interrogation room for over 30 minutes. And this is the first time that he's mentioned intruders coming over. Like really it's the first time he's talked about any possibility of what could have happened that night.

And he also name drops Richie and his dad, these two, another two names. So the detective thinking that Ryan is finally creating a fake story that somewhat explains how his girlfriend was dead on his couch, asks him again, okay, okay, so what, tell me exactly what happened.

Ryan says that Richie and his dad tried to break in through the back and that Richie used to live there in that apartment as a roommate of his and that Richie and his dad hit him because they were trying to get their stuff. So the detective then asks, okay, and they did this with a bow and an arrow. And Ryan says, mm-hmm, they each had two revolvers and they didn't let off any shells.

So the detective, extremely annoyed, tells Ryan, you just said they had bows and arrows. He's not even... He's speaking English, but he's not speaking English. He's like, you just said they had bows and arrows, and now they have revolvers? And Ryan goes, no, that's what I meant. They had revolvers. I meant they had revolvers. So this next part is the most important part of this whole footage. The detective asks, okay, what happened next? And Ryan says, they shot us both. And the detective says...

They shot both of you with revolvers? And Ryan says, "Yeah, they shot me in my eye." They have revolvers. Yes. And then what happened? And then they shot us with those. They shot both of you? Yeah. Where'd they shoot you at? They shot in the eye. You got shot in the eye? I think so. With a revolver? I think. I don't know, man. I don't know.

Holy crap. And the detective says, you don't know a lot, Ryan. And he says, did you shoot Heather? And Ryan's like, no, I didn't shoot Heather. The detective says, tell me the truth, Ryan. He's so frustrated. Ryan says, Richie and his dad came over and, and, and I don't know. I don't know. I, they came over.

He says that they put him in a sleeping hold and he lived through it. I'm almost starting to believe him because this story is so confusing. Yes. So the detective's like, okay, Ryan, what's a sleeping hold? And he just continues to say, I don't know. I really don't know. The detective confronts him with what has gone on in this interrogation. He says, okay, Ryan, listen up. According to you,

Heather, Heather hit you. No, Alicia hit you. No, Heather and Christina are on the couch. Nevermind. Alicia, Christina and Eric aren't even there. Richie and his dad broke in through the back and shot him with bows. Nevermind. It was revolvers. And then they shot him in the eye.

And he's like, mm-hmm. The detective is like, okay, was the gun a BB gun? Ryan goes, no, it was a revolver. The detective says, Ryan, if they shot you in the eye with a revolver, you wouldn't be talking to me right now. Ryan says, how do you know? He says, because you'd be dead. Ryan says, well, I thought that too, man.

He just says over and over, he wants to go to sleep, he wants to go to bed. The detective says, that's not going to happen, bud. Like, your girlfriend was just found dead on your couch and you're lying right now. You can't even tell a straight story. He asks if Richie and his dad shot Heather after they broke in through the back door of the kitchen. Ryan says yes.

And this part takes a lot of pull from, um, like in an insinuation from the detective as he tries to piece together Ryan's story for him. Um, and so he's like, maybe Richie and his dad knocked and you open the door and they push their way in and they shot you. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he goes, and then they shot Heather in the

in the face? And he's like, yeah, yeah. Oh, and Ryan says that during this time he was trying to get up off the ground, but he saw Heather sleeping, so he just laid back down. Okay. The detective says none of this makes sense. He confronts Ryan saying, right now you're saying that you've been shot in the eye with a revolver. Ryan says, yes. The detective doesn't believe him. He tells Ryan to tell the truth. He asks him, what happened to Heather last night? What did you do to Heather last night? And Ryan says, well,

Her dad came and shot up the whole house. Oh my gosh. I can't. So the detective at this point, you can see he throws his arms up in the air and frustration. Like I've seen some pretty frustrating interrogations where people are lying. They're not telling the truth. I've never seen a detective so frustrated. He throws his arms up and he's like, her dad came and shot up the house. Um, and he's like, yeah. And he goes, so Richie is Heather's dad. Ryan says, mm-hmm.

Ryan says that after he was shot in the eye, he tried to go back to sleep and he didn't call 911 because he wanted to go to sleep. Cause the detective's like, okay, well if Richie, Heather's dad, who is not Heather's dad, by the way, Heather's dad is not. No, but according to Ryan story right now, it is after he shot her. Why didn't Ryan call 911? He's like, well, I just wanted to go to sleep, man.

He's like, okay. So the detective asks, why did you shoot Heather Ryan? He goes, I didn't. She was shot once by her brother, I swear. So it was Richie, her dad, and now her brother. The detective says, and you were shot in the eye too. Ryan says yes. Okay, I want to reiterate something to you. The whole half of his face basically is black. His eye is completely swollen shut. So I'm thinking, don't know if...

So when he said he got shot, does he mean he actually got shot with a gun or a bow and arrow? He said, no, I meant a revolver. He said, I got shot with the revolver. So I'm thinking that a revolver, he had a gun or there was a gun and a revolver hit his face. Oh, like with the butt of the gun or whatever. That's what I'm kind of thinking. Not that he was actually shot with a, but he was hit with one and that's why he's saying that. Yeah. Okay. So at this point,

With all of the things going on with him being so agitated with him talking in circles, not making sense. I think, sorry, before you go on, I think he probably has a concussion. I mean, his half of his face is bruised. So that could be why he's speaking like this. I have no idea. Yeah. So the detective at this point, his frustration starts to turn into like worry. Okay. Because he's like,

Something's wrong. Like he's like, something's wrong. I'm not sure what's going on, but he's not even making sense. All he wants to do is go to sleep. And so he's like, he starts to worry. Um, so he asks Ryan, Hey, can I take a closer look at your face?

Oh, my head hurts.

So the detective like abruptly gets up and exits the room at this point. Like he just walks out of the room. And when he comes back into the room,

into the room, it's like a completely new detective, but it's the same guy. His demeanor has changed. The way he's talking has changed. He comes walking back in and in a very compassionate and calm voice, he tells Ryan that the fire department is coming back and they're going to take him over to the hospital. They've dispatched the fire department to come look at him. Ryan goes, you're taking me to the hospital? And he's like, yeah. And he goes, why?

I don't want to go to the hospital. I just want to go to bed. And the cop uncuffs him and says, we just need to make sure you're okay. The cop uncuffs him. So he was a suspect and he was cuffed, but now he's uncuffed. All right. So what happened? He just needs to make sure he's okay. So they both sit there and they wait, despite Ryan's pleas to go to sleep. He's like, I don't want to go to the hospital. I just want to go to sleep. Finally, the paramedics enter the room. And as they do, the detective mumbles, you're not going to believe this one.

He tells them, I looked closer at his face. He keeps telling me that he was shot or hit by a revolver. And he starts whispering and he says, I think these wounds right here near the nose is a gunshot entrance that passed through his nose and went into his eye.

Oh my gosh. So he's actually shot. So the fire department walks in, they start looking at him and it's a, it's a big rush. And you guys are all probably as heartbroken and sick as I was when I first heard this. Um, because now what, you know, this whole story is awful. Yeah. He was like, I, he was telling the truth. He was telling the truth. He couldn't speak because he was just shot. He literally has a bullet in his eye.

Holy crap. Yes. So Ryan Waller was shot in the face, the bullet lodging in his head. And then he was forced to wait in his house, holding on to life until the police showed up and arrested him, holding him in the backseat of a cop car for hours and

And then demanding he talked to them, treating him like he was a criminal for almost a whole hour before finally calling for medical attention to him. So they literally had no idea. I mean, could you just not tell that he was shot? You couldn't tell he was shot. There was no blood. I mean, you would think if someone was shot in the face, they would die, number one. And number two, there was no blood. But-

looking at him and we will post pictures. He needed to see medical attention. The second they, he answered the door and they saw his face. I haven't seen the picture yet. That is how bad his face is. Like I'm saying the tiny little corner, like you can see how injured his face is just from the corner camera. Poor guy. I don't know how paramedics showed up to look at Heather on the couch to make sure he was, she was dead. Um,

While Ryan was in the back of the cop car and they never once stopped to make sure he was okay. Even though half of his face was black and you couldn't even see his eye because it was so swollen. So did he live? Is he okay? So...

Ryan Waller was actually held by police for roughly six hours with a bullet in his brain. How was he a lot? Wait, a bullet was in his brain? Yes. It's in his eye, which went into his brain. And he had obvious signs of trauma and pain. Like he was sounding like he was not okay. He wasn't even speaking coherent sentences. So...

six hours during which he was experiencing worsening brain damage, six hours where he could have been getting surgery for his active injuries. And at this point, the police department is hoping that it's not true. They're hoping this isn't a bullet because if it is, there really is a bullet in Ryan's head. They have neglected a victim for hours. Even after he had tried to tell them he had been shot. He,

He said, I've been shot. And they sat in there for another 30 minutes questioning him.

At 6.30 a.m., Ryan was taken to the hospital after casually walking out of the room when they tell him his ambulance is there. This part of the video was gut-wrenching to watch because there's a piece of paper that they put on the table so if he has notes he wants to write, he can. And as he gets up, they're like, hey, buddy, your ambulance is here. And he stands up and he looks at the table and he grabs this piece of paper that has no writing on it at all and he walks out with it. He grabs it like it's important.

And he walks out with it because he's that confused. Poor guy. And my heart just breaks for him in that moment. I, that's so hard because I don't, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't there, but the way you were telling it, it just sounded like he was being kind of,

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Well, after being rushed to the hospital with what doctors determined to be life-threatening injuries and in critical condition, police went back to Ryan's apartment and checked it out. They tracked down Richie, the possible ex-roommate that Ryan had been kind of talking about, and discovered that Ryan's sad and fogged recollection of the events that night were true.

On December 23rd, 2006, Ryan and Heather were spending a night in together, eating pizza, being in love. When,

when they heard a knock at the door. Some sources say that Richie and Ryan had actually gotten into a fight when they lived together that possibly involved a standoff with guns. And so Richie came back that night for revenge. Richie and his dad, Larry, ambushed Ryan and Heather. Ryan fought back, trying to force the door closed. So they knocked. He opened it, realized it was them, tried to force it closed. But Richie got his arm through the door and shot Ryan in the face.

Twice. Oh my gosh, that's horrible. The first bullet was the one the detective finally noticed and the other one actually skimmed the side of his head taking a piece of his skull and then exiting.

Ryan fell to the floor and Richie and Larry pushed their way in. They reportedly only walked over to Heather on the couch and shot her because she was a witness. They took some weapons and a computer from the house and they left, thinking both Ryan and Heather were inside dead.

Richie Carver was sentenced to a term of natural life in 2008. And Larry, his father initially was released because the only physical evidence from the crime was only linked to Richie. And all police had were Larry's wife's confession that he told her he did it. So they had to let him go because... Did Richie not...

Tell them that his dad was with him? Mm-mm. But according to AJ Wiseman with TheMedium.com, Heather Kwan's family actually appealed to Arizona legislators to use what is now known as Heather's Law, which revokes the marital privilege law. So Larry Carver was finally re-indicted in November 2011, and he was convicted of first-degree murder and is also serving a life term. That is so crazy. I didn't think that he was shot.

I thought maybe he was just, oh my gosh, I'm mind blown. Yeah. So after being rushed to the hospital, Ryan was immediately taken into surgery where they had to remove a section of his brain.

He had a shattered eye socket, swelling, bleeding, bone, and bullet fragments in his brain. It's also known for sure that his one eye was removed due to the damage, but there is speculation that the hospital actually removed both eyes in order to appropriately fix the damage to the brain. So this guy sat here with the police and then went to surgery and got both of his eyes taken out because it was that bad. So he's... Permanently blind. Okay.

If you remember, I said that this happened the night of the 23rd, but Ryan wasn't found until Christmas, the night of the 25th. So this means not only was Ryan held by police for that long, he also spent almost two whole days shot and confused in his apartment with his girlfriend decomposing on the couch. That is crazy.

Crazy. No one knows what happened during this time, but it's heartbreaking to even think about those two days that he spent so confused in his house. So if you're confused right now, you have to understand that Ryan was shot in the brain. It ruined the part of his brain. He couldn't function. He could function like he could talk. He could walk. He could kind of

follow a conversation, but he wasn't there. He wasn't there. His brain had been shot. He's more just kind of like a robot. Like he, it took a ton of pushing for him to even be able to say I was shot. I don't even think he knew he had been shot until

this detective and pushed him over and over and over again. And he was trying so hard to remember that he finally like said it. And this is why he said bow and arrow, no revolver, no Heather, no Alicia or guy. He was just, and this is why he wanted to go to sleep. He was in so much pain, but he, because he had been shot in the brain, he couldn't look at the detective and say, I've been shot. I need help. Yeah. He couldn't, he couldn't say it.

Ryan's life after the injury has remained private out of respect for him and his family. He was permanently blind though, but because of the injuries, Ryan also repeatedly suffered seizures and heartbreakingly he passed away at the age of 28 on January 21st, 2016 due to a seizure caused by these injuries. So to me,

That means that Ryan was not an attempted murder by Richie and Larry Carver. He was murdered by Richie and Larry Carver because he died at a very young age because of the injuries from them. Yep.

According to a YouTube comment supposedly from the Waller family on This Is Monsters episode about this case, the Waller family said, For all of you that have asked if we filed a lawsuit against the Phoenix police, we did. We had a $15 million lawsuit against the city of Phoenix.

The lawsuit went on for nearly three and a half years and just three weeks before the trial was set to start, the city filed a motion for dismissal with the court because they had stated that they had found a brain expert that said the six hour delay where Ryan was with

the cops in Ryan's treatment probably didn't make a difference in his outcome and that he would have had the same damage had he received treatment right away or six hours later. The Waller family says, I paid an expert witness brain surgeon a $10,000 retainer and

And he would have testified something a whole lot different. He would have testified that when a brain is bleeding, it is swelling. And when it is swelling, catastrophic damage is being done. So every minute that he was with the police was critical. This motion went before Judge Robert Budoff, and he dismissed our case. There's no doubt in my heart or mind that he was paid off. There's no way that this should have been dismissed.

There were many other issues besides the six-hour delay. What about pain and suffering? What about extremely irresponsible negligence? The city of Phoenix attorneys, police officers, and detectives involved in this case were collectively corrupt in getting this case dismissed and swept under the rug.

We were three weeks from getting our day in court when magically they got this case dismissed because they knew if it had gone to a jury, there's no way they would have had a chance. But rather than take responsibility for their horrible crimes, they showed they are not much better than the two men that shot Heather and Ryan.

- Dang, poor Heather and Ryan, that is horrible. - And even if Ryan looked only badly beaten, he should have been examined first. If you remember one of the first things said in the interrogation video is a detective saying, "If you're gonna need to go see anything, "you need to go see a doctor." Him saying, "Is my eye that bad?" Yeah, I would say it's really bad.

So they knew. They knew that something was wrong, but they just thought he was the suspect. Once again, the boyfriend, the husband is the first suspect always, which is how he was immediately treated as a suspect. No one has been held liable or accountable for the negligence that happened that day. It was really disturbing for me, and I cried watching the interrogation footage, knowing what we all know now. You feel so disgusted when the sweet...

victim with a bullet in his brain who is barely functioning, walks in this room, is moaning. - It almost seemed comical like it was an act. - But think if you can sit here and say, this is almost comical, it doesn't make sense.

Where was the adult in the room saying this doesn't make sense? Something's going on. Something is wrong. Where was the adult to say half of his face is black. There is a hole in his nose. The bullet entered the tip of his nose, exited through the side of his nose and lodged in his eye. Yeah. There is a bullet hole in his nose. And...

no medical treatment for six hours. It's insane. He was in such distress. He was so confused. He's in so much pain in the video. And you can tell the human body is a complex thing. And you want to believe that if he had been shot, he wouldn't be able to talk. He wouldn't be able to walk, but his brain had been hit. He had immense swelling and bleeding. His thoughts were second by second.

He was living in the moment. That's why he didn't remember what he'd been asked before or after. Like his, his brain just wasn't there. He was in survival mode. And I think the only reason he was able to actually recall what happened was because the detective was pushing him so hard. And he just kept saying, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know, man. He was frustrated. He couldn't remember. He couldn't figure it out. Ryan Waller is a hero. He was strong enough to capture his and his girlfriend's murderers all on his own after being shot twice. He was able to say what happened after being shot twice. He cared and he fought.

So there's this website called legacy.com where people can be remembered and Heather Marie Kwan has a profile on there. So you can log on and you can read the amazing things people have written about her and who she was before she was a victim of this senseless crime. It's really beautiful. Like I, I love this website. I will be using it from here on out.

Heather was a graduate of Mountain Ridge High School. She completed her education at Glendale Community College and at the time of the crime, she was a student at ASU. She wanted to become a defense attorney. She was a volunteer as a big sister with the Valley Big Brother Sister Program. She gave friendship to those who needed it most and she was strong-willed. So we are taking this day to remember Heather and Ryan and what they went through, Heather being a victim,

of a senseless crime and Ryan being a victim of a senseless crime and then continued to be treated as a suspect. So crazy. When you were telling the story, I had no idea. I thought honestly, because I didn't see any pictures of him. Yeah. So you were just reading me the interview or telling the story of the interview. Um, it just sounded like he was on like on drugs. Like I said, like it didn't sound like,

- It didn't sound real. - And here's my thing. - Like if you, I kind of wish we could go back if you would have showed me the picture, if that would have changed how I was viewing the story. - I mean, it's bad. Like he looks badly beaten up, but he's talking, he's walking, he's being defensive. So I think- - You thought maybe they thought he was just on drugs or something. - And I think when he first answers the door, you're not like, oh, this is a victim. But the second he can't put a sentence together,

This is why this interrogation footage is so infamous. Yeah. Because he's sitting there the whole time with two gunshot wounds to his head. Horrible. I thought there was going to be some...

Good news, but there was... No one's been held accountable. There's no good news. Heather died. Brian died. It's... Yeah. What we can do is continue to tell the story and help him receive the justice, like, publicly that he deserves and help Heather be recognized. Yeah. That is this episode for this week. Thank you again for all of your support. We love you guys so much, and we will see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. Bye.

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