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cover of episode Sapphire anvils squeeze metals atomically-thin

Sapphire anvils squeeze metals atomically-thin

2025/3/12
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Guangyu Zhang
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Javier Sanchez Yamagishi
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Sharmini Bandel
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Sharmini Bandel和Benjamin Thompson:二维材料在电子等领域具有重要应用前景,但大规模制备二维金属一直很困难,因为金属原子之间存在强的三维键合,传统的剥离法对金属无效。 Guangyu Zhang:受到工业金属锻造的启发,我们开发了一种使用蓝宝石压机挤压金属的方法。该方法的关键在于使用原子级平整的蓝宝石砧,我们使用二硫化钼涂层来实现这一点。将金属放在蓝宝石砧之间,加热熔化后,施加高压进行锻造,外部的二硫化钼层帮助稳定金属结构并防止氧化。该方法对五种不同的金属都适用,研究主要集中在铋上,制备的二维铋晶体厚度约为0.5-0.6纳米,是两层原子厚,直径约为0.1毫米,比以前的方法制备的晶体大两个数量级。未来研究方向包括制备毫米级晶体、制备超薄合金以及突破铋的两原子厚度限制。二维金属及其独特的性质有望应用于微型设备的计算机芯片和灵敏探测器等领域,可以提高芯片的连接性和灵敏度。 Javier Sanchez Yamagishi:这项研究成果令人印象深刻,大大提高了二维金属晶体的制备能力,这项新方法有望促进更大尺寸的二维金属晶体的生产,这项研究成果将激励更多人从事二维金属的研究。仍有很多问题需要研究,例如如何制备更大尺寸的晶体,以及原子如何排列。二维铋中的原子可以采用不同的二维构型,这会影响其性质。

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Welcome back to The Nature Podcast. This week, a new way of making metals two-dimensional. And lessons from the virus behind the COVID-19 pandemic. I'm Sharmini Bandel. And I'm Benjamin Thompson. When materials get thin, like really thin, strange things can start to happen. Think about graphene, made up of carbon, just a single layer of atoms thick.

This 2D material has a number of useful physical and chemical properties not seen in its larger cousin, the multi-layered material graphite. And researchers have predicted that other 2D materials made of elemental metals could have important applications in things like the electronics of the future. However, 2D metals have been hard to make at any sort of scale.

That might be beginning to change though, as a team have shown a way to squeeze metals flat using a sapphire press. One of the reasons that 2D metals have been hard to make is that metal atoms have strong bonds between each other that are inherently 3D.

These bonds prevent them being teased apart in the way that's used to overcome the weaker van der Waals bonds found in other 2D materials, as Guangyu Zhang from the Institute of Physics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences explains. Most of the 2D materials are actually Vanuatu structures. So from the structure point of view, you have many, many layers. And Vanuatu's force is very, very weak.

So that's the case why you can exfoliate graphene from graphite. But for metals, you cannot do that. This exfoliating is a bit like stripping individual playing cards off the top of a deck. And as Guangyu says, it doesn't work for metals.

But 2D metals have been created, although the methods to do so are tough, and the produced sections of 2D metal, known as crystals, have been small, nanometer-sized in diameter, perhaps only a hundred or thousand atoms across. And while this has allowed researchers to begin probing the properties of these materials, if they're ever to be used in a meaningful way, these crystals need to be bigger.

And making larger crystals of pure 2D metal is something Guangyu and the team have demonstrated in a Nature paper this week.

thanks to some inspiration taken from the molten environments of an industrial metal forge. So about six or seven years ago, I see a video for a forging process. The factory workers use a high-pressure machine to make this metal thinner. So I think that kind of process motivated me. Guangyu wanted to see if this squeezing of molten metal could work effectively.

at very small scales to make 2D materials. So he and the team built a press. At its heart is a pair of centimetre-sized sapphire anvils designed to squeeze any metal between them flat.

But although sapphires are tough and their surface is really smooth, it's not smooth enough on its own for this job. If the anvil's surface has many fluctuations, that should be copied to the forged metal, right? So if you want that metal to be very, very flat, you should make the anvil very, very flat first. So that's the key.

To remove the fluctuations and get the silky smooth surface they needed on the sapphire anvils, the team coated each of them with a single layer of a 2D material called molybdenum disulfide. This provided the atomically smooth surface for successful squeezing. And then we put metals in between it.

and heat it up to let the metals melt. And then we forge it using quite high pressure. And it turned out this strategy works. What resulted from the squeezing was a thin layer of metal sandwiched between two layers of molybdenum disulfide. These external layers helped stabilize the metal structure and protected it from oxidizing, essentially going rusty.

The team showed that their method worked with five different metals, but they focused much of their attention on bismuth, a metal whose predicted electrical properties when it's in its 2D form have been of interest to a lot of researchers.

Guangyu's method created bismuth crystals that were very thin. Our metal has a thickness of around 0.5, 0.6 nanometre. For comparison, a human hair is about 100,000 nanometres across. Because of the way the atoms need to bond, the 2D bismuth Guangyu has made is actually two atoms thick, unlike single atom-thick materials such as graphene.

The team report the crystals they produced of their 2D bismuth could be around 0.1 mm across. This might seem small, but the team report that these crystals are up to two orders of magnitude larger than those made before.

Javier Sanchez Yamagishi works on the physics of very thin metals, and he's written a News and Views commentary to accompany the research. Javier produces crystals of bismuth for his research, and was impressed with the two atom-thick ones that Guangyu has achieved.

When I saw this paper for the news and views, I was, you know, let's say, outstanding. I thought, wow, this is amazing. This really kind of blows us out of the water in terms of what we can do. Javier says that his own crystals give him plenty of scope to probe the properties of thin bismuth, but says the new method shows promise for the production of larger 2D metal crystals.

I think these results will inspire a lot of people to get interested and involved in this type of work because what they achieved on such a large scale is something that can, I think, easily be adopted by other groups. And that really helps to then grow this subfield of people interested in growing thin 2D metals.

But although impressed, Javier says there's a lot more to learn. Like whether it's possible to refine this method to make even bigger crystals, understanding how crystals grow in confined space, and why the atoms align themselves in the way they do.

The authors demonstrate certain crystals in 2D form, but these atoms can actually adopt different configurations, which are two-dimensional. So there is a question of why certain structures are created over other ones. And depending on what structures are created, the properties will be different. In 2D bismuth made of two layers of atoms, these atoms can be arranged in either a rectangular or a hexagonal configuration, which are predicted to have very different properties.

Being able to make each of them consistently will be important if researchers are to probe what they can do. In this work, the team showed some preliminary work on 2D bismuth with the rectangular structure, showing, for example, it has enhanced conductivity compared to 3D bismuth. But this paper is primarily about showing that the method of squeezing metals can be effective. Guangyu thinks that this is just the beginning.

For example, he wants to know whether crystals can be made at millimetre scales, whether different elemental metals can be mixed to make ultra-thin alloys, and even if it's possible to break the two-atom thin limit for bismuth. These are all questions that will undoubtedly be investigated by groups around the world, because the field of ultra-thin metals is a growing one.

It's hoped that 2D metals and their unusual properties could one day find a home in a variety of places, such as the computer chips inside miniaturized devices, as Guangyu describes.

The chips inside involve so many, many metal layers. And I think if the 2D metals can be incorporated, it will give you a very excellent connectivity and also very thin and cost-efficient from the materials. And also, this kind of thing can be used in some very sensitive detectors.

like photoelectric detectors, because it's a very thing, it's very sensitive. That was Guangyu Zhang from the Institute of Physics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. You also heard from Javier Sanchez Yamagishi from the University of California, Irvine in the US. To read Javier's news and views article and Guangyu's paper, check out the show notes for some links. Coming up...

In the five years since the COVID-19 pandemic started, what have researchers learnt about the virus? Right now though, it's time for the Research Highlights with Dan Fox. At the top of an ancient pyramid in what is now El Salvador, archaeologists have discovered five puppets with faces that either smile or scowl depending on the viewer's perspective.

The five clay figurines measure between 10 and 30 cm tall and date to around 400 BC. Three of the puppets even have moveable heads, much like modern dolls. The puppets position on top of a pyramid and their orientation suggest they were used in rituals such as funerary practices or public ceremonies. The puppets have striking facial expressions that shift depending on the angle from which they are viewed.

From above, they seem to grin. From eye level, they appear angry or disdainful. And from below, they look scared. The authors say that similarities between the puppets and artifacts found in other Central American countries suggest that some rituals and customs were shared across the region, challenging the view that the ancient inhabitants of this site were culturally isolated. You can view that research from any angle over at antiquity.

A certain pattern of brain waves recorded during sleep could help predict whether an unresponsive person with severe brain injury will ever wake up. Severe brain injuries often cause some form of impaired consciousness and it is difficult for clinicians to predict whether people will ever regain consciousness and to what extent.

To develop a metric to predict these outcomes, researchers recorded the electrical activity in the brains of 226 people in a coma who had experienced brain injury in the past week. The authors focused on a specific pattern of activity called the "sleep spindle" which is also seen during regular sleep.

They found that 28% of those exhibiting a well-defined sleep spindle went on to regain consciousness, compared to only 14% of those who lacked this pattern. The team say that these results show that testing brain activity for the presence of sleep spindles could improve predictions for long-term recovery. You can find that paper in Nature Medicine.

Next up, reporter Nick Petridge-Howe is here with a story about the lessons from the virus behind the COVID-19 pandemic five years on. There is a virus that has been sequenced more than any other organism on the planet. In the space of just five years, there have been 17 million genome sequences and 150,000 research articles on it.

I'm talking about SARS-CoV-2, the virus behind the COVID-19 pandemic.

And with all these sequences and data on this famous pathogen, one of my colleagues, Ewan Calloway, has been writing a feature article asking, what have we learned from all this? He joins me now. Ewan, hi, how's it going? I'm all right. Why were you interested in writing on this topic? Yeah, maybe podcast listeners will remember me from CoronaPod, but, you know, I was in it. I was writing about this virus every day for several years and

And like a lot of people, it became my life. But looking back on it, I think I wanted to ask the question now that we're out of the emergency phase of the pandemic, what

was this an air quotes opportunity for scientists? You know, we've never watched a pandemic pathogen emerge with the resolution that we have with all the modern techniques we have like DNA sequencing. And I want to ask the question, what did we learn that we can take to this virus that we can take to other viruses? How did studying this virus so closely change virology is what I was after. Yeah, because I guess with this virus,

Researchers had almost a real-time look at how it changed, how it evolved. What did they learn from this detailed analysis? I think one of the first lessons that we talk about is just what you can learn from paying attention to something so closely by sequencing now 17 million genomes. I talk with people who are part of this kind of nascent field called genomic epidemiology and

With each kind of outbreak, I'm thinking of Ebola, Zika, et cetera, you know, they were getting better and better at sequencing viruses or pathogens in near real time, but not quite. But now, you know, as one of my sources told me, you know, we had the tools, we had the technology, we had the sequencing. It was now time to like put up and show up and show what sequencing a virus in near real time at scale can do. And it can track its spread. It can uncover worrying mutations. You know, we were all

You know, sitting on the seat of our pants, kind of, you know, watching viral sequences coming in and say, is that a worrying variant? So this is a huge lesson, I think, is what we can gain from sequencing so many viruses and looking at it so closely. And I think people will want to apply that to pathogens we encounter more regularly and just to keep tabs on them and maybe learn something new that surprises us because SARS-CoV-2 surprised us.

I was going to say, I was paying attention back in those days when the sequences are coming out. What does this one mean? What does that one mean? What's happened to the spike protein? That sort of thing. But for the researchers, there were some surprises for them. They had some ideas maybe of how things might go because of flu, but COVID was a different beast. That's something that really came across in my reporting because I think a lot of people's

thinking, especially around a pandemic caused by a respiratory pathogen, was that it was going to be influenza-like. And influenza is a virus that, you know, circulates globally, and it gains new hosts largely by evading immunity from prior infections. And so I think that maybe one school of thought with SARS-CoV-2 was like, well, nobody in the

to this. So the virus isn't going to change a whole lot until we start vaccinating everyone or until lots of people get infected. And instead, we saw the virus just gain in transmissibility and its ability to spread, you know, in leaps and bounds already in the first weeks of the pandemic. And then we had the emergence of these

ever more transmissible, ever more virulent variants with alpha and delta in the northern hemisphere. And then we had beta and gamma, which were more common in Africa and South America, respectively, but they did go global, both of them. I think that was a big surprise that a virus would change this much this quickly without having an entire population immune to it.

and forcing the virus to change. Yeah, and the virus also changed where it infected and how it infected, which is quite unusual, or at least was unusual before this. Yeah, I think that was something that a scientist I spoke to were really struck by, that, you know, the virus is...

Not only becoming more transmissible, maybe this is part of its gains in transmissibility, but it's changing how it infects people. And one of them is more common in lower airway cells. And so that's what kind of the ancestral virus did. And that's what Delta really ramped up.

and made it so, I think, deadly that it was going after cells deep in the lung. And then, you know, a virus can also infect cells in the upper airway, and it goes through a different entry mechanism. And what we saw is, especially with the emergence of Omicron, is that the virus kind of really shifted its preference to those upper airway cells, which is something we haven't, I think, really documented before happening. So that's something that, you know, people are really interested in looking at, those sorts of changes, and still understanding the basis of

for you know the leaps and bounds in transmissibility i think you know there's still a lot to understand we haven't figured this virus out by any means no and speaking of leaps and bounds the other thing that the virus seemed to do was it seemed to evolve quite quickly and one of the things you talk about in your feature is how this had to do with people had longer chronic cases so

When you think about the variantification, which is a term I came across of SARS-CoV-2, kind of after Alpha emerged and we started seeing these more transmissible variants,

which is one thing. But when scientists looked at their sequences, they weren't like descended from the variant that was around before. They had been evolving for a long time, it seemed, without being detected. And that was a real head-scratcher for scientists. People were like, you know, what could be causing this? Could they be evolving in animals that we're not sampling?

And gradually, I think most people have come around to the idea that these variants that are very different from what came before are evolving in chronic infections, long-term infections, potentially in people whose immunity is compromised, either through drugs they're taking or health conditions, you know, and what scientists have observed in actual patients.

people with chronic infections is that they see kind of like a melting pot where the virus just gets to mix and match all these different mutations until it hits on the ones that

that are basically the jackpot and create this highly transmissible virus that can also evade a lot of immunity. And these events, they seem to be pretty common in immunocompromised people, but we don't have so many variants. So we don't know what makes an immunocompromised infection turn into a global variant of concern. That's something that's still very much an open question that we've never, ever traced.

a variant like Omicron or Alpha. People have found some hints about Alpha, but, you know, we haven't traced it to like an individual chronic infection, but it just is kind of like a preponderance of the evidence sort of thing. And could there be lessons for how other viruses evolve in that? Could a similar thing be going on there? Or is that still an unknown? I think it's an unknown. So like,

When I was reporting on this at the time and started people starting to come around to the idea that chronic infections could play a role in global evolution of SARS-CoV-2, they were like, this is different from flu. In influenza, people can get chronic infections and you get interesting viral evolution. And I think there was even an argument that the evolution going on in individuals was maybe predictive of what would happen kind of

globally with influenza, but we didn't think that these chronic cases were a source of the next strain or next variant of flu. People still don't think that's so, but people will be looking more closely at other infections that we tend to think of as traditionally being like acute and asking, are they chronic? And if so, you know, is something happening in chronic cases that can contribute to viral evolution? Some of the ones that I think people listed to me, I think were

respiratory syncytial virus, which causes common colds, but also can be quite worrying for very young children and for older people, the virus that causes MPOCs disease, chikungunya, Ebola, you know. I think people are going to be looking at chronic infections anew, was the sense I got from reporting and keeping kind of an open mind. I think that's really a theme from this story is that...

SARS-CoV-2 opened people's mind to things that are different from what they'd seen before. And hopefully that will stick. Speaking of things that were not seen before, you've obviously been covering SARS-CoV-2 for a long time. You did an in-depth look in this feature. Was there anything you learned through doing this reporting that surprised you? Actually, you know what really surprised me?

was how few people are still working on SARS-CoV-2. Because what happened, pretty much not every virology lab in the world, but lots of virologists stopped working on or paused working on what they were doing and started working on SARS-CoV-2. And of course, they're not going to abandon their careers and their fields, but I assume that there would be a kind of a new community of SARS-CoV-2 scientists, of coronavirologists, and

There really haven't been. I spoke with one scientist, Keisato, in Japan, who's really gone big into SARS-CoV-2, having kind of been a retrovirologist studying HIV, but he was the exception. And, you know, funding was really the reason that people cited, you know, the funding that appeared was kind of like, let's get out of this emergency. But I think it doesn't seem to be

that there is a whole lot of continued support. But I was surprised that more people haven't stuck with it. And do you get the sense that people were maybe, I guess, a bit burnt out after all this effort? Yeah, I mean, I did speak with somebody. They said they were quite burned out. They said they felt like

a production line. They were just, you know, a new variant would appear and, you know, they go back in and do, you know, the same test that they'd done for the previous variant and crank it out and then rest and then do it all over again. I mean, for another scientist I spoke to, they saw that as a kind of their raison d'etre, you know, to really go into responsive science mode is the term they used.

So, yeah, I think a lot of different things for a lot of different people. I mean, I think it was an intense period for all of us. And I guess the big question when we're talking about lessons from SARS-CoV-2 is can all this effort, can all the sequencing tell us how to deal with future pandemics? I mean, you'd hope so, right?

We've got the tools. I think the scientists I spoke to said nothing was perfect, but how science and research responded to the virus is probably a standout example. And I think there's a sense, though, especially after the election of Donald Trump, that science

that the opportunity to take what we've learned from SARS-CoV-2 to do better in the next pandemic, those opportunities are being squandered, at least, you know, in the United States, which is global leader in virus research. So, you know, there is a real worry that these opportunities are being missed. Nature's Ewan Calloway there. For more on that story, head to the show notes for a link to Ewan's feature.

Finally on the show, it's time for the briefing chat, where we discuss a couple of articles that have been highlighted in the Nature Briefing. Sharmini, you and I haven't done this for a while. What have you been reading this week? I've got some gravitational wave news for you today, which I certainly haven't also done in a while. You remember lots of big, exciting gravitational wave news. We were watching black holes merge. We were watching neutron stars merge. Big news when it first came out, but

what's been happening since and what's there still left to see? I'm guessing there is an awful lot because these mergers, I mean, they're few and far between, I guess, but we've been learning loads from them. There's always more to learn in science. Gravitational waves, obviously quite a new field. And I've been reading an article in Nature about a paper that is using AI to predict what's going on.

When these big gravitational wave merger events are about to happen, with the idea being, if you know when it's about to happen, you can ring around all your mates and say, hey, point your telescope here. We're about to get some very cool data. Right, because I guess you want to make sure you're looking in the right place. The sky is a big...

big place indeed and the key thing is that you've got these big gravitational wave detectors at various points in the earth with their sort of like long arms ready to detect these slight fluctuations and when you have big events and in this case we are talking about neutron star mergers so these two dense neutron stars coming together they will then give off a whole load of gravitational waves now your gravitational wave detectors are going to detect that

But you've got all these other telescopes and things on the ground, in orbit. They have to be looking in the right direction. So one of the researchers has likened it to sort of like...

The gravitational wave detectors are sort of like hearing the event and looking with the other kinds of telescopes is sort of like seeing it. So if you want to both see and hear your neutron star merger, those telescopes have to be pointing in the right direction. And I guess one way of doing that is just being lucky. But I'm sure this article has come up with a new way that is a bit smarter than that. Absolutely. And the key change here is the ability to take data from gravitational wave detectors and process it chronologically.

quickly enough that they can then analyse it, say, yes, we think a stellar merger event is going to happen and then send out an alert to everyone. So it's all about the speed and the accuracy as well. So this team has used AI, they've used simulated data and a neural network, trained it to basically estimate speed

when one of these things is going to happen, where one of these things is going to happen. And rather than the kind of calculations that would be done in hours, they can now do it in seconds and with 30% more accuracy than existing rapid response techniques. So as the plan then, as these two objects spin closer and closer, you get more and more of these gravitational waves being detected by a detector like NASA.

Yes. And then what you get when you point everything in the right place at the same time is as well as the gravitational waves from the actual merging, you also get gamma rays, X-rays. You've got your different types of telescope that can obviously look for different types of waves. And then you get the gravitational waves from the actual merging.

Neutron star mergers are very important. They're thought to produce the heavier elements in the universe like gold and platinum and uranium. So having a little bit of warning that one's going to happen and being able to study it would be very exciting. So this has only kind of happened once before. So in 2017, there was a neutron star merger that the gravitational waves detected and then loads of different types of telescopes were pointed at it. But that was the aftermath. It's called a kilonova when the neutron stars merged. They were able to study the aftermath of the kilonova then.

So this hasn't actually been tested in real life. And I guess they're waiting for these waves to undulate across the universe and then it's go time. The algorithm is trained and ready. I remember the excitement when those first gravitational waves were detected.

were detected. Are researchers equally as excited about what this might do? Yeah, there's several quotes in this article from some rather happy researchers. One of them points out that, as far as they know, neutron star mergers have never been observed in real time using optical or radio telescopes. So this would be, will be, will hopefully be an exciting first. Well, that's such an interesting way of learning more about these kind of enormous galaxies.

catastrophic comings together that happen in the universe for the second story let's go closer to home and a lot lot smaller and i've got a story that i read about in science and it's a follow-up of sorts to something that you and i chatted about over a year ago and that was a story about unusual birds nests and this one yeah is two okay yes i vaguely remember birds making their nests out of

materials in strange sort of places, right? Absolutely right. So that was a story back in 2023 about birds making nests out of anti-bird spikes, which is an amazing story. Oh yes! Oh no, the spikes! Oh yes, these poor people trying to keep the pigeons and the bird poo off their

And it was cool because it showed, you know, how birds are interacting with the modern world. And the person behind that was Oka Florian Himstra, a researcher in the Netherlands, who is back with some more research published in the journal Ecology. And this new research is looking at ways to date when birds' nests were built in

in a very unusual way, and one that focuses on single-use plastics and the dates written on them. This is bird nest archaeology using plastic. To an extent, yeah, it is. And so Oka Florian hit upon this idea, apparently, when studying nests of what are called common or Eurasian coots in Amsterdam's city centre. And these birds are known to incorporate plastic particles.

bits between the twigs in their nests. And the question was, could this give any indication as to when the nests were built? And in this work, coot nests were collected after the breeding season had finished, right when these nests had been abandoned. And the team kind of teased them apart and sifted and pulled through them and pulled out any plastic and

And some of this plastic contained legible text, including expiration dates. OK, now, some products last for a very, very long time and the expiration dates can be years away kind of thing. But in some cases, these could be super specific. The article talks about avocado or milk packaging. These are obviously short shelf life.

food stuffs and so they give like an idea of when these nests were built now most of them weren't very old the data suggests that they were kind of three years old or less but there was one in particular from a canal which had over 600 bits of plastic in it some with expiration dates over 30 years old 30 so that's potentially a 30 year old bird's nest

Absolutely right. It's a time capture, a trash capture, I suppose. And what's interesting is it does give you a sense of time passing in a similar way, I guess, to tree rings. And in this case, the outermost layer of this nest had a bunch of face masks from the pandemic. But the very base of this nest had a wrapper from a chocolate bar, which was promoting the 1994 Football Soccer World Cup season.

Was that 30 years ago? I was thinking 30 years ago. Oh, that must have been back in the 70s, right? Yeah, sadly, the 70s wasn't 30 years ago. Anyway, the researchers think that three generations of coots could have used this nest over 30 years. So just like tree rings, they've come back to the nest and they've added more plastic, whatever the most available bits of material are. It seems that that's the case. And what's interesting is that in the wild, coots build a new nest

every year but in urban environments it seems that the long lasting plastic might mean that they have to spend less time building their nests right because obviously plastic isn't breaking down anytime soon giving them more time to do things like looking for food or whatever

Obviously, it could just be that there is absolutely loads of plastic in the environment, and so they're incorporating more of it. So there's a lot to know about why this is being done. And obviously, it's not all good news. Let's be honest. Plastic can get tangled around birds' feet. It can harbor parasites as well. So on the face of it, this is quite a fun story, but there is a serious side to it as well.

And what are the researchers hoping to deduce from this other than, hey, this is a really old coots nest? Yeah, as I understand it, they reckon that this might just be sort of scratching the surface. There could be a lot older nests to find, but it could ultimately prove a good tool for dating birds' nests.

and help researchers understand more about, you know, how birds are doing, why they're reusing a site. Are they struggling to find a new place to build a nest, for example, because of environmental changes, that sort of thing. So once again, it shows this kind of interaction between nature and the environment. And in another article about this work, the researcher has got this amazing quote, and it says, history is not only written by humans, nature is also keeping score. Oh.

Oh, I love that. Well, there's plenty of coots around here in London. So yeah, next time I go wandering by a canal, I shall have a look and see how full of fascinating archaeological treasures their nests might be. And listeners, for more on both of those stories, you can check out the show notes. We'll put some links there and also a link of where you can sign up to the nature briefing so you can get more stories just like these directly to your inbox.

And that's all for this week's show. If you want to keep in touch, you can follow us on X or Blue Sky, or you can send an email to podcast at nature.com. I'm Benjamin Thompson. And I'm Sharmini Bundel. Thanks for listening. Hi.

That sounds good, doesn't it?

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