Friends & Finances - How to Maintain Important Relationships
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Why do you think we've stayed friends for over two decades? I use retail therapy as a way just to relax or cope. I feel like you and I will like punch each other to pay for the bill. Yeah, yeah. Querido invierno, Toyota no se cansa de ti. Porque Toyota tiene 25 vehículos con tracción permanente en las cuatro ruedas y tracción en las cuatro ruedas, más que cualquier otra marca de autos. Hasta siempre. Toyota. Toyota. Vayamos juntos. Basado en las páginas web de los fabricantes a partir del 2010-24.

What's up, rich friends? Welcome back to Net Worth and Chill with me, your host, Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF and your favorite Wall Street girly.

And in season one of Net Worth and Chill, I would alternate interview duo versus solo, interview duo versus solo episodes for the podcast. But I thought to make this season a little bit more interesting and share a little bit more of my personal life, for today's quote unquote solo episode, I've actually brought a personal friend of mine.

Someone who has been in my life for two decades, someone who knows all of my deepest, darkest secrets, where the bodies are hidden, but this is where we're going to start today. Her name is Carol Wu, and we have been friends since we were 10? Yeah.

Yeah, sixth grade, however old we are then. We were young. We were super young. And today we're going to talk about money and friendship. And we're talking about the best kinds of friends, the worst kinds of friends, and pretty much everything in between. But before we start, I do want to tell a quick story. And Carol actually knows this person. But I had a friend at one point, Venmo me,

like $8 for light bulbs for her lamp because she said, and I quote, you also get to enjoy the light. And I am tired of friends Venmo charging each other 30 cents for breathing in each other's direction.

And I feel like today is a good chance for us to talk about friendship and money. What do you think? I love it. Amazing. So first off, I definitely blackmailed Carol to be here today. But I want to just ask, what was your earliest memory of money? And I'll tell you mine.

I think my earliest memory of money was when I was little. And I think it was a period where my parents were going through not financial trouble, but I think they were just trying to make sure that all they could make ends meet. And I remember, I don't know how old I was, probably early elementary school age. And this was my grandfather was in the U.S. as well, living with us, taking care of me. And he made a comment about, hey, you know, we just got to be careful about money. You know, maybe...

Things are tight, so just be cognizant of that. That's like my very first— How old were you? I think I was in first or second grade. It was definitely quite a young age. Yeah.

And we grew up down the street from each other. This is how we became best friends. I used to cut through your backyard because we lived in a development where there were townhomes. And we were living in townhomes at the time in one of the better school districts. So we had the smallest homes in one of the best school districts because I think both of our parents really valued education. Yeah. Yeah.

Did you ever feel some type of way because we lived in that neighborhood and there were kids that we went to school with who had like those massive mansions like right down the street from, you know, the high school or what have you? Like, did you ever felt like very other than because of that?

I don't think so. I feel like I was conscious of money and knew roughly my family's financial standing. But I think at that age, I didn't think too deeply about our classmates and friends and maybe their financial backgrounds the way that we would now looking back. Yeah. Did you guys talk about like money in your home a lot? No, never. Because my parents would always be talking about money. Really? Yeah. And I'm shocked yours weren't. No, I...

We don't talk about money. I think even to this day, obviously, I know more now because we're all adults now. But I think in my family, it was unusual to talk much about money other than, hey, we should always be conscious and we should save. But not so much about where do we stand or how do we think about budgeting. It was always just save your money. Don't spend it if you don't need to. So Chinese. It's so Chinese.

And like when things would start to like pile up, whether it was like your spending as like a kid, I remember we used to go to the mall. Right. Did your parents ever like say anything to you about that? Like when we would go shopping?

No, but I think it's because when you think about me now, I'm such a consumer. I don't think I developed that habit, though, until I started earning my own money. Yeah. I think as a child, I would just take my mom and dad's cue about when to spend, whether it was back to school clothing or school supplies. I don't even know. You were good about that. I wasn't. It's actually quite a role reversal, don't you think? Yeah. But I think it's because of my upbringing. At least this is

my own self-reflection that I think I'm such a consumer now and I use retail therapy as a way just to relax or cope. Yeah. Because of the way that I grew up. Yeah. Because I feel like I was very good about it as a child, but as soon as I had my own money, my own budget, it almost feels like out of control or on a spree sometimes. I'm on a shopping high. Can I say...

You can't make me better, but I definitely made you worse. What do you mean? Because when we first met, I felt like you were very, like, chill, go with the flow. Like, I'll wear whatever my parents buy for me. Yeah. And I was, like, in that mode of, like, I want to be, like, dressed nice. I want to look like the girls in the magazines. Yeah. And then, like, we started hanging out more and more and more. And you were like, well, I want to dress that way, too. I would come over to your house and you would have a huge haul from Abercrombie. Yeah. No, I'm serious. Yeah.

That's one of my earlier memories of our friendship. Really? Yeah. And then you would go home and be like, I would like to go to Abercrombie. I think I learned about Abercrombie from you. But like what happened? Because these days, Carol, like your husband texts me regularly and is like, Vivian, she must be stopped. Like you love to online shop. You love to go in-store to shop. I don't know what happened to me. I hate shopping now.

Yeah. When did that change for you? I don't know. I feel like it's just because like when I had like less and less time, I went from like in-store shopping, which used to be like a fun activity to online shopping. And now I almost exclusively online shop. Like I hate going into the stores because I feel like it takes too long. And then I've wasted so much time. Yeah. But when – like you started making real money as an adult and then the floodgates just opened. It just popped off. But like why? Yeah.

Well, actually, I don't love in-person shopping either, but I love— I don't mind in-person shopping. I'll do it. Yeah. It's not my preferred shopping mode, though. I prefer to have 20 carts open, 20 different tabs, 20 different shopping carts. Just browse, browse, browse. I get influenced a lot, too, based on what I see on social media or different fashion influencers. What's the most recent thing that you've been influenced to buy? Most recent thing I've been influenced to buy—

Okay, nothing – it's not one specific product, but I've been buying more sweaters recently in the last year. I think it's because of a variety of probably social media posts that I've seen. And I was like, I've got to revamp all my sweater collections. I don't – I hate all the cardigans and sweaters. I have got to get new ones. So I've built that up a little bit over the last year. Like the –

Like the one that you're wearing right now. Yeah. Oh, my God. Okay. So this is so humiliating. She just really put me on blast. If you're listening, you can't see it. But if you're watching, you are noticing that I'm in a beautiful oatmeal-colored sweater. And it's Carol's because I had a tank top on that I didn't realize was slightly see-through for a podcast.

So I am wearing Carol's sweater. Sorry to put you on blast. Carol, you have bailed me out of so many like both fashion but also like life emergencies.

You were the big sister I never had. Like, honestly, I feel like any time I come over to your apartment, I take something and then you never see it again. But I think that's meant that's nature just working itself out. Yeah. The sweater distribution. This is mine now, by the way. You're not getting this great. It's a wonderful. I highly recommend. Yeah.

So I want to talk about, you know, how money changed for our families once we kind of got into high school. I don't know if you like vividly remember this as much as I do, but we lived in the townhome neighborhood in, you know, elementary, middle school. And then halfway through like high school.

It felt like both your family and my family got more comfortable financial footing. And your family moved into a single-family home. And then my parents were like, well, the Woos moved into a single-family home. And then we moved into a single-family home. And what do you make of that? How has your parents' relationship with finances and yours changed during that time? I don't – yeah. I'm trying to reflect. I don't know –

If something actually happened because neither of my parents changed jobs, it's not like someone got a huge promotion. Of course, you know, there's promotions or upwards movement over the years, but nothing in particular happened. I wonder if it was just a mental state where they were more comfortable about, okay. Because we were older. Yeah, I'm comfortable now. Or maybe there's enough saved up for college or for other things.

whatever big purchases that they had in mind. So let's just move. And it was unusual at first. I don't know what spurred it. Yeah. I don't know either. I'm like trying to think. But like I feel like having immigrant parents, like we had a different relationship with money than many of our peers. Like I feel like we had to be more acutely aware of it than like people who weren't the children of immigrants. Yeah.

Like, do you feel like your husband, I'm not going to say his name out loud. Do you feel like he had that same experience?

I think so. And I think, I mean, I think his family. Carol's husband is also Asian, in case anyone is curious. That's why I asked. Yeah, and also the child of immigrants. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I think it, I think had a very similar experience to us growing up. I think parents started out more cautiously with financials and then got more comfortable at a certain point in time. I think for him, though, the lesson for him is that it taught him to be very conscious and be a very thoughtful manager of his financials and our financials.

And I guess it just had a different effect for me, as you can see. So he became the really responsible, frugal one. Yeah. And you became the consumer. Yes, but I'm working on reforming now. Reformed consumer. You know what it is? I feel like every single saver ends up marrying a spender so they can torture them for the rest of their life. It's just how it works out. It's just how it works out. Let's take a quick pivot. Okay.

And I want to talk about our friends, our different groups of friends. Yeah, yeah. You and I went on each other's bachelorette parties. We've met all of each other's friends. Like, do you talk to your friends about money? I do with some. I wouldn't say with everyone. But how do you decide who you do and don't? Honestly, I take the other person's cue.

I think it depends on the situation too. I think if I'm doing something that requires spending or something that impacts a friend's financials, I'll be the one to bring it up. But I think if someone were just to openly want to share, I honestly don't think I start first, but I think if someone starts to share, I'm open about talking about it. Do you feel like that's how our friendship happened? Because I literally, you don't remember this. I do. When we first met, I basically was just like,

We're friends now. And you were like, okay. But we met selling scholastic wrapping paper for that school competition in front of, we'll call him Colin's house. Yes. And we were all trying to sell this wrapping paper and you and I teamed up. Mm-hmm.

And then we sold one set of wrapping paper to your parents and one set of wrapping paper to my parents. For a whopping total of two? For a whopping total of two sold and we did not win any prizes. I think we got like a pencil with like a smelly eraser on it. But like it was just how we became friends. And I feel like I have always been the more eccentric one and you have been –

The more stabilizing factor in my life. And that's why my parents were so happy when you became my best friend. Uh-huh.

I feel like I tricked your parents into thinking. What do you mean? Like I tricked your parents into thinking that I was like a good influence when in fact I was not. No, but I feel like you helped me come out of my shell. I feel like I, I wouldn't say I'm super shy, but I feel like I kind of like to feel out situations first before I jump in or say something or share anything. Yeah. And I'm like already in the water. I'm like, are there sharks in here? Yeah.

Um, so when it comes to friends and going out with them, because you do this a lot because I see it on the stories and then I get kind of jealous. But like when you go out to dinner with your girlfriends, are you guys splitting the bill or is one of you picking it up? Because I feel like as you and I have gotten older in our relationship, we used to split the bill. But now it's like

One of us will pick it up and we'll just alternate. Yeah. But like do you split the bill with your friends or no? Okay. So I have many thoughts on this because I think it depends on the situation. I think if it was like a group dinner, three or more, we either just split it evenly if everyone – if we shared things or if we roughly got the same number of drinks and entree. I'm also okay if someone wants to pay for it and then they'll itemize each person for what they got. No, Carol. You know that person is just trying to take all the points. You want the points.

But that's okay. That's not a hill I need to die on. Okay. But I think that way of splitting is fair too if someone feels strongly about that.

I think what I do look out for, and I don't ever like to cause this on anyone. If we're at a dinner and someone's had five glasses of wine, another person just sipping water and someone got a steak and the other person got a side salad. Yeah. I think I will say, hey, let's actually just itemize it because we kind of got different things for dinner. So I think it depends on the situation. And I do look out for it because I never want anyone to feel like,

it's unfair or that they're taking on a financial burden for a night they didn't think that they were going to have. Yeah. You have always been about fairness.

Like, yeah, like you were just such a good person. Like you've always done things by the book. You're a rule follower. You want everyone to feel included. I'm not like that. Let's just be entirely clear. Yeah. Like I was like, we're going to do whatever I feel like it right now. But like you and I have been friends for so long and I don't know how like looking at our personalities. I'm shocked. We've been friends for so long, but it just works. It just works. Yeah. It's 20 years of just working. Yeah.

I want to talk a little bit about friends in different financial situations. Yeah. Because a lot of your friends are from college in the same way that a lot of mine are. But also a lot of your friends were from your first and only job. That's right. Carol is loyal, unlike me. I'm on my third do-over. But you've stayed at the same company since your first job.

day out of college and you've gotten raises, you've gotten promoted multiple times, and a lot of your friends do the same thing as you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have friends who have like a lot more or a lot less money than you? I was thinking about this. I don't think so because...

Almost all of my friends, we work in some kind of corporate setting. Yeah. Different jobs for sure, different types of companies, but all in a corporate world. So I would say it's more similar than if someone worked in a completely different line of business, like healthcare or education or government. All of my friends just happen to be in the corporate world. Yeah. Okay. Awkward because none of my other friends are in the corporate world.

But, yeah, I don't know. I feel like I have been navigating, like, how much more I should be covering for my friends so that they don't feel uncomfortable. And you are my wisest friend and most compassionate friend. So I'm curious how you would tackle it because, like, you know, I have friends who –

have gone through higher education, become doctors and lawyers, and they have a lot more debt than I do. And they also aren't making the kind of money that even like a corporate person is. And I do have corporate friends and other friends in finance. Like what advice would you give me? I think it just depends. This is a very consulting answer. Yeah. Oh gosh. Okay. Carol's a consultant. So she's about to like Jedi mind trick me. Go ahead. I think it depends on the situation. I think it depends on

If you're leading the charge on wanting to do something that might impact someone else financially or if it was a group decision, I think that that makes a difference in terms of what you should do. I think if you are leading the charge, whether it's a trip or a dinner. Let's take my bachelorette, for example. Well, I feel like you were so compassionate and conscious about thinking about everyone's financials. You think? Yeah. Okay, great. I need your validation right now because you also went. Yeah.

Well, you might have forgotten about this, but when we were in the planning stages for your bachelorette, we talked about what would be the easiest location and type of trip that makes sense. We did send out that stupid survey. I thought it was great because it talked to, you know, it covered logistics and financials, which are the only two things that people need to think about when they plan to go on a trip like that. Yeah. And you had everyone's convenience in mind. A, what's a location that's easiest?

or that everyone agrees is a good location to get to. And two, like what are the activities and where should we stay and what should we do that financially makes sense for everyone? Yeah. I don't think we balled out. I think it was a perfect balance for everyone that was there. Shout out Survey Bunky. We sent out a survey that basically was like, yo, which of these weekends works, which of these locations works, and how much do you want to spend on this bachelorette? Because I recognize it's my bachelorette and not your life moment. Yeah.

So that's a hot tip for all of the friends who are planning any sort of big getaway. It's a good thing to check in advance. Yeah. Wait, quick side story about that. Wait. Well, because of the survey, you know how I also sent out a survey for my bachelorette? Because you told me to, and that was such a good idea. So it's just a full circle moment. Yeah, because I put that survey together for you, and I remember being like, what are all of these people's emails? Yeah.

But yeah, that ended up working out pretty nice. A great tip. Yeah. I like that one. So I know we texted about this and you told me the answer was no, but I'm going to press you. Okay. Do you have a financial... You're like, what the heck did I get myself into? Do you have a financial friend horror story? Or even have you heard of one? Have I heard of one? Give me a juicy one. Okay. Not that juicy, but interesting. I've heard of...

I've heard of couples who are married who keep entirely separate financials, separate savings, separate checking, separate credit cards. What do you and your boo do? Okay, so we have...

Separate savings from savings that we accrued before we were married. Yeah. And now we have a joint savings and checking account for all shared expenses. But you guys still keep your separate accounts as well, right? We don't actively contribute to it. Like our paychecks now all go into our joint account. Oh, interesting. But we have our own savings from before we were married. Okay. I like that.

I like that. It's a yours, mine, and ours. It's nice. Yeah. That is nice. Everyone has their own rainy day fund, but we have joints for everything that we have in our life today. Okay. But when you are online shopping, where does that money come out? Oh, that comes from our joint. That's why he hates it.

This is why he's texting me. Yeah, yeah. And we get notifications. Oh, so he gets a text every time you spend money. Not text. We track our financials through an app. Okay. So just every transaction, there's a notification. So it's all out there. So there's nothing that I'm spending that's not known. This is not financial infidelity. He's probably going to listen to this episode and be like, this is so stupid. But like, he sees. Yeah, yeah. And do you guys talk about that when you're like...

Has there ever been a month where you've just been like so down bad and you've spent so much money and he's come to you and been like, Carol, what are you doing? Well, I feel like I've been more reformed. I am very good. I always declare my intentions before I do something. So I put it out there and there's a chance for the answer to be no. I might still do it, but I at least put it out there. Wait, what do you mean by that?

Hey, I'm going to buy this. Oh, so you announce. Yes. And then he's like, don't do that. And I might still do it, but I will always announce. I don't know if that makes it better. It was transparency, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, literally. You can call her a lot of things, but a liar is not one of them. Okay? Can I tell you a financial horror story? Tell me. Okay. You know this girl too. Okay. We'll call her Alicia. Okay. You've met her.

in college when, and this is also why I was so triggered when you were like one person can put their credit card down for dinner. This person used to be the girl who would order like the pizzas from Pizza Hut and then she would Venmo all of us for whatever we owed based on how many people were splitting the pizzas, how many we got, whatever. And we started to notice that she would round up

to either the nearest dollar or the nearest like five or 10, like an even number. And we would pay her for that. But then at one point we realized she was spending less and charging us more and cutting like a commission essentially for being the one to order the pizzas. Like- Delivery tip? Yeah, like I don't understand like why she did that. But like, if that was you again, cause you are my wisest friend, how would you confront that situation? Yeah.

I just stopped being friends with her because I didn't know what to do. You cut ties. Yeah, I literally was like, okay, we're not friends anymore. I mean, it might be, you know, cut ties worthy, but I would just ask someone about it and be like, hey, I thought the pizza was $25. How is it $40? Yeah. Why are we spending more? Yeah. Like that was one of many things, by the way, that we did not like about her, but like

It just makes me laugh looking back on that. I'm like, why did we keep letting her be the one to order the pizza? Do you know why she did that? I don't. Trying to make a profit off friends? I don't know if she was trying to make a profit. This was also somebody who like, if she wanted to go out and one of us...

didn't want to or couldn't afford to she would give us a hard time but then like if we all wanted to go out and she couldn't afford to because she had spent a lot of her money on something else like she would like try and convince us not to go which I think is like a marker of a friend who like doesn't want the best for you right so I think that was frustrating in itself yeah but

I don't know why she did it. Like we don't talk anymore. Right. And she doesn't talk to a lot of the other gals that were at the wedding. And like, I just don't think we have a relationship anymore. But that was like both financial and also just like how she treated some people and spoke to people. And, you know, I think it was indicative of a larger issue. Totally. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to play a fun game now. Yeah. Because you know me, I'm always about them games. I love it.

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Let's go through a few money scenarios and you let me know how you would respond. This is Carol's best advice hour. Okay. She is, you know, again, the most compassionate person I know. Scenario number one, the group gift. So we're all chipping in for a friend's birthday or special occasion and one person suggests a really pricey gift. And-

we love the idea or let's say you love the idea, but you can't afford it right now. Yeah. How would you respond? I would text that person. Okay. I'm assuming this is a very close friend and I would just text them and say, Hey, I didn't plan for this. How about these other ideas? I think so-and-so would like these gifts as well. And I think I would also take this as a lesson learned that if I'm organizing a group gift, I think it's always nice to ask everyone what range they're comfortable spending.

Because you never know, like even if you've on the surface, you feel like everyone's on the same financial standing. I feel like you never know what, you know, what's everyone's financial circumstance, if they're saving for something to buy a house, a major purchase or just things that you may not be aware of. I think it's always a good practice just to ask everyone, like no matter the situation, even if you've asked them the same question two months ago for a different friend's birthday. Yeah. Just ask them, hey, what are you comfortable spending? Yeah. Before you throw out ideas. Communication is key. Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay, scenario number two, the expensive weekend getaway, bachelorette parties. So you get invited to a super bougie weekend trip with your friends. It's not in your budget. What do you do? And on the flip side, what if it's you who wants to go on an expensive weekend trip and not everyone can afford it? What do you do in that case? Okay, so I think in the first scenario, if I'm invited to a trip and I can't do it,

I think if everyone else in the group is down, I don't want to cramp their fun. So I think I would just bow out and I would feel sad. But at the same time, I feel like it's better for everyone. Mm-hmm.

If the majority is already down and it's in their budget, you just bow out. Don't necessarily have to explain. Maybe just say like, I can't make it this time or I'd love to join, but right now is just not the right time. So please include me next time. Yeah. I also like the idea of like afterwards being like, but I am available on this date. We should all get together and do Keats in a movie or something. Totally. So it's not like you didn't want to hang out with them or you didn't like the idea of it. It just wasn't the right time or place for you or financially for you. Yeah.

I think if I'm the one with, if I'm the mastermind behind the weekend, I think it depends on for what. If it's just a girl's trip and it's not my bachelorette or like some type of, you know, once in a lifetime type of occasion, I would be open to discussing. I probably ask everyone first what their budget is. Yeah. And what they're down for. So I would be open to negotiating. Now, if it's a different situation, like it's my bachelorette and I have a dream destination, I just have a dream vision. Yeah.

I think I have to make the call if I really want all the girls there on my bachelorette as an example. I think I would help out financially if it was important to me that everyone was there. Yeah. Or the reverse is kind of what you did for your bachelorette, right? You can take a group consensus too to kind of find the happy medium that works for most. Yeah. Okay. Love that. And scenario three, lending money to family. Mm-hmm.

I don't think so. Carol has a sister, but I was her maid of honor. So let that speak for itself. No, I'm just kidding. She's not going to hear this. It's fine. But say your sister asks you for money. Yeah. Do you give it to her?

Okay, I think it depends on the circumstance. Is it for something fun or leisurely? Or is this like a dire life situation? Like I can't pay rent or... Are the answers different for the two? Yeah. Okay. I think it's circumstantial. What if she says, I want to start a...

side hustle. I want to start like a photography business or something. Yeah, yeah. In that case, it's not dire, but it's also not like I want a new pair of like, you know, designer shoes. It's not frivolous. Yeah. What would you say? Okay, this is a consultant to me coming out. I...

The answer is yes, but I want to hear about the business plan and business model and how you plan to become profitable. Because I think if that thought has been put into it, then definitely the answer is yes, of course, for family. But if it's like, I don't know, I just want to throw some money at it just to get started, I might question and say, well, maybe you got to think through your plan for your business first before I lend money.

Yeah, that's a good answer. But also you're going to be so annoying when you have kids and they're like, I want this mom. And you're like, are you going to make a PowerPoint and explain to me why you deserve it? Absolutely. Yeah.

Teach them young, right? Teach them young. You got to start those PowerPoint skills early. You got to know how to make your business case. That's right. That's right. Okay. So let's pivot out of the game. I want to talk a little bit about your career. You have stayed in one role since I've known post-college what you have done for a living. I still don't know what you do for a living. I barely understand. Yeah.

I did, however, go to a work event with you. Yes, yes. You were my date to a gala. To a gala. So it was a lot of fun. And everyone recognized you. So you were the star of the hour. Oh, my gosh. Always blowing up my spot. You're so funny. What made you want to just stay there? Like, especially given that I am your best friend and I'm constantly telling people, you know, get a new job, like job jump, demand more. Like, what made you want to stay? Yeah.

Okay, so I think the interesting thing about consulting is even though you are a career consultant, because our work is very much project-based, it does end up being different experiences. So when you rotate clients or if you rotate roles, even if you're on the same client, it almost feels like it's a new job, honestly. I get first day of school feelings when I change a role. Do you? Yeah. It's like a new job. Yeah, it really is. Sometimes it's an entirely new team. But what if the team sucks? Hmm.

I mean, you certainly have projects that you like better than others. Yeah, yeah. You have to. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you make the most of it. I think if you're not happy because of the project itself or the people that you're working with, I think you give it your best shot and kind of as soon as it makes sense to move on to the next project, you do. Yeah. And then if you enjoy it, I think you – I soak it in and I stay for longer. Oh, nice. Okay. I didn't know that you had like that kind of flexibility that you could just be like, oh, I want to be on this versus like you're assigned. Yeah.

I mean, it's a little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, honestly, in consulting network really matters. So a lot of times we end up working with people that we know or they pull you onto different projects or different roles. Okay. And into kind of the like life stage that we are in. Yeah.

I got married this past June. You were my maid of honor. You got married the March prior, the May prior. May prior. May prior. And I was your maid of honor. Like, talk to me about wedding planning, spending money on that, because I know you were the baller there and Charlie was just like, I have to go. Oh, wait, shoot. I shouldn't have said his name.

Do you want me to go back and do that, Carol? That's fine. Oh, you don't care. Okay, great. I've been hiding his name the whole time, but it's fine. So Charlie was the saver and you were the big baller, I'm assuming, when you guys were planning your wedding. Yeah. Well, we had a budget. We did overspend, but not crazy from the budget that we set. Okay. Yeah. And how did you guys come up with that budget?

It was all thanks to our wedding planner. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the process all started with, hey, what's your total budget? And she kind of recommended how much you should be spending in each vendor category. Yeah. So she helped us manage it. Oh, that's amazing. My planner basically was like, yeah, whatever you want, whatever you want. And then the number ballooned. I spent way more than I had anticipated. Yeah.

But that's wonderful. And like, do you and Charlie these days talk about money often? Yeah, yeah, all the time. I think he has made me for the better because Charlie makes me think about, hey, it might feel good to spend in the moment, but here's, you know, if you buy all this clothing this month, it means we can't go on a trip. Oh, okay, okay, okay. The opportunity cost. Yeah, exactly. So he helps me put into perspective. And I feel like as I've matured and become a fully formed adult –

I have taken it in and I feel like I am more conscious. It's not to say that I don't go on shopping sprees. Yeah. Especially if I'm feeling down. But she can never afford to feel sad. Oh, my gosh. True words have never been said. But I do think I'm better about it now. I think before I would just the thrill of hitting checkout pay now confirm. Wow. You know, all three.

That was great. But now I always give it a second thought and I ask myself, do I really need this? Yeah. And I also, I've tried to live more into the buy nice or buy twice mentality. Oh, explain this to me. So I feel, okay, so this goes back to when I started earning my own money. I feel like I was just really obsessed with volume, just buy all the things, all the variety, maybe not the cheapest thing, but also not the best quality thing. Yeah.

But I feel like now it's I'd rather spend more on one nicer thing than to buy three or four lower quality things. And I'm talking about clothing. Oh, okay. Yeah. What other things do you like to spend on? Like what do you guys like to spend money on together? I think our biggest spending categories for me is shopping. And then together it's travel and dining. Probably more on travel. Well, I think travel and dining come together when we are traveling. We'll go big on dining.

And then when we're at home, though, we're pretty good about it. We don't dine out too much because we like cooking at home, too. Yeah. Can't relate. What about you? I mean, we spend all of our money on travel and all of our money on dining out. Yeah. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like you guys. But the problem is...

Our DoorDash bill is also astronomical because we oftentimes like are splitting time in different places. So it's not really effective. To cook for yourself. To buy groceries. Because by the time I finally get around to using that bag of spinach, half of it's like moldy. Yeah. And oh, I can't get through an entire thing of ground beef or like ground turkey in a certain amount of time because I'm only here for three days and I'm going somewhere else. And it just gets kind of hard.

I mean, we did, like, I love a meal kit. Like, I love a HelloFresh. I like, like, doing something that's, like, fun and already pre-portioned for you, but then I don't have to worry about buying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just hard to be consistent with it when you're traveling so much. Totally. Yeah. I can relate. When I'm traveling for work. Oh, yeah, because you travel every single week as a consultant. Not anymore. Not anymore, okay. But I have, but I still travel. Yeah. Just not every week. And when I'm on the road, it's always eating out. Yeah. So I can relate. Yeah.

So let's pivot into kind of the last big question that we will discuss in today's show. And this is a big one that has stemmed from my psyche as a child and being friends with you. Yeah. The comparison game. Whether it was...

That one math teacher who shall not be named who would hand us each other's tests or our parents – because my parents would always be like, oh, I bet Carol got 100 on this test when I got like a 98. I'd be like, no, she didn't. She also got a 98. But like I feel like I have been compared to you for a lot of my life. And –

What are your views on like the comparison game between friends? Okay. I'm split on this because I think it depends on –

If it's if the comparison makes you for the better or if it makes you chase after or aspire for things that weren't meant for you. So I'll explain. That was kind of woo woo. OK, go ahead. OK, so I'll explain. I think if you're surrounded by high performing, high achieving, high achieving friends and they challenge you to do better. Right. And they challenge you to do something that you didn't think you could or.

To study harder because that will drive you to get a better grade too. I think that's not a bad thing per se. I think when you're surrounded by role models like that, like everyone just builds each other up and then everyone ends up for the better. Yeah. I think if you're comparing yourself to others for things that they have or experiences that they have. Yeah.

That don't make sense for you or isn't, you know, if it's like especially if it's like a material possession, right? Like so-and-so has so many beautiful clothes and bags and shoes and that drives you to try and like imitate their lifestyle even if maybe you're not in the same financial standing. I think that's no good. Yeah.

I think it just depends on what you're comparing yourself to others for. I like that a lot. I also find that like what frustrated me about comparing is I never did it. Like I don't feel like you or I ever did that in our heads ourselves. It was always from another source, whether it was teachers or parents or what have you. And like as an adult who like is not influenced by teachers or my parents as much, like I

I don't actually notice myself doing that with friends anymore. And it's like a lot more like calming because I'm like happy that everybody's shit is going right. Yeah. You can just be happy for each other's successes, right? Yeah. Because there's space for everyone. Yeah, there really is. And I feel like one other thing that we talked about a little earlier is like

Now that we are both in like a financially stable position, like when we go out, I feel like you and I will like punch each other to pay for the bill. Yeah. Oh, yeah. OK. So I didn't really answer this question earlier. But if I'm with friends one on one, what we do, I do think that as we grow older, it's kind of like I'll get the bill this time. And then it's not like a mental tit for tat, but you'll just recall next time you got to dinner. Oh, you know, Vivian grabbed the bill next last time. Let me grab it this time. Yeah.

I also like if I have friends visiting and I'm hosting and let's say whether they're staying with me or not, I also like to grab the bill sometimes too because they traveled out to come see me or spend time with me. So I like to do that. I mean, it's not like a hard and fast rule, but I generally try to do that. Yeah. I love it. You always give such good advice to me when I'm down my lowest. I mean, I even remember the time that

I got home and realized that I had forgotten my house key. And I was sitting outside in the rain and I called you and I was like, Carol, come get me, please. It's raining. And you drove all the way and got me even after our families had moved. Yeah, yeah. And then I went to your house and it was nice and dry. And I got into your clothes and then stole them again. Yeah.

So to kind of wrap up our show, I want to get your POV on why do you think we've stayed friends for over two decades?

I think we complement each other well. Our energies complement each other well. Was that woo-woo? Yeah, that's very woo-woo. But you've always been more woo-woo than I have been. Like, you're not, like, collecting rocks or, like, crystals or anything. But, like... Yeah. And I think, and this is something that Charlie pointed out to me, too, just kind of who we surround ourselves by. I think life is more interesting when you're friends with people who are different from yourself. Yeah.

How fun would it be or not fun would it be if everyone was just a clone, right? You thought the same way, had the same opinions, did the same thing. I mean, that's not a bad thing either, but I think variety is the spice of life. Oh my God. Like a personal self-help episode. Okay. So to close us off, I will ask you one final question and Charlie's going to hate me for this, but what is one thing that you have been eyeing to purchase in the next month or so?

Oh, next month or so. Okay, so we're currently in austerity saving mode. Okay. Because we have a lot of travel coming up next year. So Charlie's been reminding me that every...

piece of clothing that I buy means that's one less thing. Yeah. Or that's the opportunity cost or decrease in budget that we can spend on our trips next year. But I am eyeing some jewelry for my birthday. You answered that so quickly. You were like, it's austerity mode. But yes, I am eyeing some jewelry for my birthday. I love jewelry. So I can't wait to borrow this jewelry and never give it back. No, I'm just kidding.

You can borrow. I try to do the reverse. I try to have you take stuff back to your place, but then you never do. And you're like, Charlie will be mad if I come home with your stuff because we're trying to get rid of my stuff. But sometimes I do ship you stuff without asking. Just a little treat. Oh, okay.

The treat that you recently shipped me, I unpacked it all recently. Well, it's been unpacked, but I took it out of all the boxes and all the wrapping this weekend, actually. It was very, very soothing to unpack it all. The clicking ASMR. I know you love a little soothing beauty routine. But I think that's all for today. I just really wanted to explore money and friendships and our friendship and the fact that we've been friends for so long and

I like to think that what's the rule? They say if you're friends for seven years, you'll get to be friends for a lifetime. Yeah. I really think that we will be. So thanks for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me.

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you liked the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcast at yourrichbff.com. Follow Net Worth and Chill Pod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news. And you can follow me at yourrichbff for even more financial know-how. See you next week.