Chiefs Steve Spagnuolo on Building an Elite Defense, Bribing Andy Reid & Battling Brady | EP 143
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Do you remember the pass that I threw against you? Wait a minute now. That was against the Giants? Ha ha!

Did Landon pick it off? Oh, yeah. Well, I think I more so just threw it right to him than he picked it off. You threw it right to him, yeah. It was the most impressive 80-yard torpedo of an interception. Coach Reed knows not to put me in that situation ever again. I appreciate you doing that that day, though, Travis. I appreciate you doing that. The funniest part is Alex Smith comes running over to me, and I'm just like, I can't even look Coach Reed in the face. He's like, don't worry about it. It was like a punt. I was like, it was second down. It was like a punt. It was second down. It was second down.

Welcome back to New Heights, a Wondery show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment. We are your hosts, and this show is brought to you by Zillow. Download the app today. I'm Travis Kelly. This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Shout out to those Bearcats. Subscribe on YouTube, Wondery Plus, wherever you get your podcasts.

podcasts and follow the show on all social media at new heights show with one S Jason, tell the people what we have for them this week. You got another great episode for you guys. Got a little merch update for you guys. And we're going to get to a guest. You guys have all been asking for that. We've been asking for that. We're excited to have on that Steve Sampson.

Spagnola, that's right. Defensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs is on right now. You're going to want to see this one. Spags. But first, before we bring in Spags, we're going to get a little bit of that new news. New news. We got new merch. We're going to have Jake model these new bad boys off just in time for July 4th. We're kicking off the summer with the Red, White, and Blue collection.

We've got two new teas out now, a red, white, and blue New Heights logo tea and a Brew Heights tea. Ooh, I like that. Perfect for those backyard summer games. The Brew Heights are nice. I like that. Yeah. Brew Heights, it's such a good name. It rolls right off the tongue.

Man, makes you want to have a beer, to be honest. Jake, can you step back and give us a little spin? Did we get a little... Oh, God, Brandon. I mean, are you going to do it or not? Be a part of the damn show, Jake. There's nothing on the other side of the shirt. Bye, Em. Oh, Em, making her first New Heights appearance. Hey! All right, give us a little hold it. Yeah, now give us a little spit. There it is. There's nothing on the back here. Wait, I'll hold up the other one. Looks very good, though.

Red, white, and blue. Red, white, and blue. All right. My dogs are going to go nuts. I'm going to hop out of here. Thank you, Jake. You nailed it. Thanks, Jake. That's the red, white, and blue collection. We've got two new tees out now, a red, white, and blue New Heights logo and a Brew Heights tee, perfect for those backyard summer get-togethers. Get yours now at homage.com slash new heights. There's also time to submit your team for Beer Bowl 3. Ooh.

We need you, 92%ers, to send us your team submission videos. Reminder, we are judging based on team name, costumes, and vibes. That's right. Gotta be the vibes. All about the vibes. Drinking ability is an added bonus. All right. Big change from the previous beer bowls. I will be competing this year, so you'll be able to compete against yours truly and Bo Allen. To submit, post your video on your preferred social media platform, tag New Heights Show with one S, and use the hashtag Beer Bowl.

Deadline to submit your team is Wednesday, June 18th. There may be other Eagles players participating. I'm not really sure. Last year, Sidney Brown was in. Russ Tucker, I would assume, is going to want to be back in. Big Jordan Milata in that thing or what? Jordan's usually out of town. All right. Let's get to our convo with Chiefs defensive coordinator, Steve Spagnola. Spags. Yeah.

Joining us today from Wittensville, Massachusetts. Hey-oh! He's been a football coach for over 40 years, had nearly two dozen coaching roles in three countries. How about that? Nine states and the District of Columbia. A four-time Super Bowl champion, the only NFL coordinator to win a Super Bowl with two different franchises. Woo-hoo!

Tom Brady has called him the bane of my existence. That's a heck of an accolade. And he is now entering his seventh year with the Chiefs as the most successful defense coordinator in franchise history. Please welcome Steve Spagnuolo. Thanks.

You guys are the best. I'll tell you what, I paid Tom Brady a lot of money to say that. I don't think he worried about anybody, to be honest with you. Coach, thank you so much for joining with us, though, man. I love it. Appreciate you taking the time in the offseason. I know things are starting to get riled up and everybody's starting to get excited. You've got the rookies coming in in a few weeks, maybe even this weekend coming up, huh?

Coming up, yeah, about four days. It will be Saturday, Sunday, Monday. We'll be cranking. You already know, and we'll get it rocking and rolling on Tuesday, man. I'm pumped. Yeah. It's really good.

rookie minicamp is crazy for the coaches as it is for the players? It's crazy in that, well, you know, I mean, you got a bunch of guys in here that it's hard to get the scheme to them all at once. But I will say this, what I really like about it, and I think Andy would tell you the same thing, and Jason, you could appreciate this, like, it's been, now, it's been however long it's been, Trav, since we had the last game. And so even the coaches get out of

You know, we've got to get tuned back up, too. And I think the rookie minicamp kind of gets us back in the groove. You know, the oil up your teaching technique, oil up the words, right? Put something new in. And it's kind of a little bit of a trial run, Trav, before you guys come in on Tuesday. And then we hit the ground running. We kind of get going. I've always, yeah, I've always liked it. That's awesome. Yeah, it really is. Well, we just got some new pieces released.

I know you're excited to work with revamp the, uh, the offensive defensive lines and, uh, you got it. How about that corner? We got, uh, seven picks. You can, you, you know, we can never have enough corners. All right. You know that you're going to never have enough. Oh yeah. In this day and age, you can have a never enough. So we, uh, so we drafted those three defensive guys on, uh, on Saturday, right? Yeah. And so Sunday, when we're coming in here, Jason, uh,

Clark Hunt, Mr. Hunt, and some of the other guys around. They said, boy, you got plenty of guys. Last night. Hey, Trav, you know what I said to him? I said, you know when you're a kid and you get eight presents under the tree and you're opening them up? After you open the eighth one, what are you looking for? One more. One more.

That's what I said. We might have gotten three, but I'm looking for more. You know, we're going to have enough good defensive players. That's awesome, man. You already know. We're pumped to get into the building, man. Where do we even start with this career, big guy? I mean, you've been with the Chiefs since 2019. It was honestly surprising to read because it feels like you just got there. But, I mean, seventh year.

You've had so much success there. I don't know. Yeah, how's it been being with the Kansas City Chiefs coach? I owe that all to Andy. I mean, I've sat so – you know, I was the interim head coach of the Giants in that –

end of the 2017 year when you guys won, Jason, and decided to take the year off. I thought it was a good time to do that. And when you do that, guys, listen, you just don't know whether the next opportunity is going to come. But thank God, you know, Coach Reed and I are really close and he had enough confidence that he was, you know, he said, hey,

Come on here, let's roll. And it's been nothing but a huge blessing since. I mean, look, when you can be around the guys who are around Jason, you know, you know most of them. It's not just the Packets and the Travs, but all these guys we have on defense, right, Travis, that are just good character guys. And just being in the building makes it all worthwhile. Now, look, winning helps. We all know that. We all enjoy this profession when you're winning. But the way, you know, Coach Reed has built this thing with the guys that he's built it with –

To me, that makes coming to work a joy every day. It really does. And I'll tell you what, Coach, the first day in OTAs, when I saw this new defense and our new D.C., and we had guys like Frank Clark and Tyron Matthew. I mean, it was a completely different look on defense, especially in the offseason. Yeah.

And there was a completely different energy, camaraderie. And I think just the way you – like you said, Coach Reed does it a certain way. You do it a certain way as well where you bring everybody together and really work as – like you bring everybody together to work –

to like find one goal. And it's been so cool to see how the defense has gone from the beginning of my career to where it is now. It's so amazing how well they communicate and they all know what each other is doing. You know, Trav, you're hitting on something and I appreciate you saying that because I respect, I mean, you guys know football. So when you see something and say something like that,

uh that means a lot to me but i will tell you this and i i don't know if you guys i think you would agree jason you just got done talking about uh jeff stoutland our assistant coaches now i'm not talking about the coordinator i'm talking about the other guys i don't think get nearly enough credit yeah for what you're just talking about travis like when you start talking about guys that communicate and how it kind of gels together that doesn't happen if you don't have a

you know, a D-line coach in the D-line room doing it, a linebacker, and now everybody being on the same page and you take the egos and you throw them out of the room. And we've got guys that do that. I've been really, really fortunate that way. Trav, you know. Oh, yeah. And I'll tell you what, because we've been fortunate enough to go as long as we do,

Our staff has kind of stayed pretty much intact because by the time we get done, a lot of those jobs are gone. But we've got a lot of guys on the defensive and offensive staff that deserve to be coordinators. And I think that's as important as anything myself. I'm with you. Coach, what do you think has been the biggest thing that has allowed you –

To continue to have so much success. Like, listen, I played against you when you were in New York and some of the things you did as a coordinator would give us so many fits from the blitzes and the different looks and the multiplicity of things you'd have to be prepared for. But in Kansas City, it feels like it's

gone to another level like you've and i'm not saying this just because i'm on here with you right now and i've told this to people the job you and your staff and everybody and the players have done in kansas city the past two or three years on defense and everybody wants to talk about travis kelsey and patrick mahomes and andy reed but you yeah everyone we all do we all do but what you guys have done over there has been absolutely remarkable

And it was absolutely remarkable all season long this past year. Is it anything that different from what you've done before? How have you continued to evolve with the game to make it so dominant? It's just been remarkable to watch. I appreciate you saying that, Jason. The easy answer to that is players. And I mean that because if you don't have that, there are a – I might be willing to say that most coaches that make their way to the NFL got a lot of ideas, are very creative, and

And but you can only do so much with the guys you have if they're able to do it. Now, I've said this before. I started this saying this two, three years ago. And it's still true now. Travis knows this because he knows the guys on the other side of the ball on defense that this is the highest percentage of cerebral players.

in one room, in the defensive room, that I've ever had. And when you have that, then you can do the things that you're talking about, Jason, because it's hard to do it when you can't, you don't do it up here. And do you rate that...

at a premium to run your system in particular? Because, I mean, listen, you got these four, three defense that are playing cover three. How much do you really got to know? No, that's true. You guys have so many different packages, different fronts and alignments. Anyway, sorry. That is – and I'll tell you what, to Brett Veach's credit and all the personnel people, and Andy included, I mean, I value –

what I call football get it. Yeah. Right. You know, listen, you don't have to be a 4.0 student in college. I mean, I don't ask about GPAs, right? Trav wouldn't be able to play defense if we were asking about GPAs. But football get it. Like you guys know what I'm talking about. They get the game of football. And the more guys you can get in your room, especially on defense. And Trav, you know, the guy in the middle that we have,

Nick Bolton. I already knew he had to. Yeah. You got to have that guy in the middle. I mean, the entire room legitimately, like him and Trank, and then you add the safeties. And even somebody that's an outside piece that you can move around, like Trent. I mean, his understanding of the game and his understanding of offenses and

and at this level they're all those guys are at that level leo chanel is the same way you know i don't think there's a if you're going to be a multiple defense

That guy in the middle has to be that. Like, here's where I've been really lucky. So I've got Nick now. Anthony Hitchens was like that trap when I first got here. When I was in New York, I had Antonio Pierce. Antonio Pierce became a head coach in this league. I mean, Jeremiah Trotter was really good. Kelvin Shepard is now the defensive coordinator of the Detroit Lions. He was a Mike linebacker for me in New York. So if you've got those kind of guys,

It's like the center and the quarterback chasing on offense, right? Yeah. All right now. I mean, if you don't have that guy, you can't do all these things. Yeah. It reminds me of what Philly went through this year. We haven't had a great off-ball linebacker in a long time, like a game-changing guy. And when Zach Bond brought to the defense, it was so apparent how much better it made all three levels in playing in sync. Yeah.

And it feels like connect connecting it. Whenever we watch Nick on tape, it was just so apparent how much of everything he was helping orchestrate and get lined up. And just a tremendous amount of respect for that guy. I bet if you talk to all the other guys, I mean, he makes the other 10 better. Like he's telling the D line what to do with his signal back here. And,

And listen, when in doubt, I tell them, do whatever Nick says. Whatever Nick tells you to do, just do it. It might not be exactly the way we put it. But at least you'll be sound. That's exactly right. Everybody will be doing the same thing. We've got a lot of trust in Nick. Good, good, good. We just had the draft. Do you want to talk about any of these guys in particular? What do you think of this D-tackle from Tennessee? What's your strengths?

Omar. I'll tell you what. You know who he's a little bit like, Travis? It's Turk. Ooh, nice. Yeah, a little bit like Turk. Yeah, we lost Turk to the Carolina Panthers, one of my favorite teammates of all time from St. Louis. Yeah, I love Turk. But this young guy, Jason, is a movement guy. He'd be really good. The defensive end, Galletti, that we got, I think he can play anywhere. And both these guys are real smart.

The corner, Noel Williams, the same way. And then we've got a linebacker I think is going to be really good. But all these guys are – I feel like will fit in the rooms they're going into. I think they will be kind of the mold that we just got done talking about. They have football, get it. And again, give Brett Veach and his crew a lot of credit because they come around. What's great, we collaborate regularly.

better here than anywhere I've ever been. I'm talking about personnel and coaching. And I think that is one of the keys to, you know, the success we've had. Coach, you just said you look forward to all the players when they're getting back around, not just the veterans, but these rookies when they're going to come in. Is there anything right away that you look at and that you love to see out of like a young play? Like what's that attribute that you're like, man, this is the guy I want on the team. This particular camp, I'll be keeping my eyes on those guys that –

pick it up the quickest. Now, we actually, listen, some of these guys are coming in here, they're going to be swimming. Sure.

But you can weed out the ones right away that can't. And we purposely put probably too much install in, Jason. We probably do. Sure. But we do it on purpose to see who can handle it. And so the first thing I'll look at is guys that can get it mentally. And then the next thing will be, because we're talking about guys that come in trying to get a job, the guys that can play more than one position. Like if you're a guy that's a nickel safety or a nickel corner, if you're a guy that...

that is a defensive end that can kick inside on third down. You know, that's... And linebackers that can play all positions. So I kind of keep my eye on those two things. The football get it and the guys that are a little bit versatile. Yeah. That versatility running, especially your system, always gave us fits offensively because it's like...

Is this guy a DN? Am I counting this guy as a down lineman or a linebacker? Is Leo Chanel responsible by the offensive line or the running back? Who am I giving him to? Because I don't want to give him to the running back, but I might have to because the safety's over here. Go ahead, sir. Hey, Jason, so what would happen? You're an all-line coach in the league, right? What would happen if we came out of the locker room

before the game and everybody just switched jerseys. Oh my gosh. And Nick had Leo's shirt on and Leo had some. Because you're working off of numbers all week long. You're always going off of numbers. You got to roll it next. You're like, okay, 42 and 52 and 55.

or down. Yeah, we consider them this. We consider them that. Especially when it comes to those situational downs where the packages are so much different than the base personnel. Oh, yeah. Hey, Trav, I want to do that someday. Maybe at halftime. Just do it at practice one time. You'll get fined by the NFL. Just eat it. Just see what happens. It's definitely a fine. It's definitely a fine. So for everyone listening who doesn't understand this, the way protections work offensively, a lot of it is based on personnel and matchups.

And what Coach does so well and what these versatile guys are so great at providing is they're a mismatch for a running back, but then they can also drop in coverage and be reliable to the point that if you put offensive linemen on them, now all of a sudden Coach is getting numbers away from them in like a blitz package. So it always gave us fits. It gave us fits when you were in New York, and it definitely gave us fits

when you were with Kansas City. Well, that's good to know. Spags is the ultimate chess player, baby. The ultimate chess player. Yeah, don't tell him. Stout's going to be mad at me. He's going to be like, hey, don't tell him. We were just watching film this morning. I won't tell you what team it was, but I don't know why this happened, but two snaps in a row, this offensive team put the running back on Chris Jones. Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, wait a minute. What is this? We need to shut down more often. We need to shut down more often. Chris is licking his chops. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Let's go to your relationship with Coach Reed. You talked about he's a big reason you're there. How long have you known Big Red? Yeah, that's a good one, guys. So I go all the way back. So the connection was, I'm going to try to get the year for you. It had to be...

It was late 80s, let's say, 88, 89. Oh, man, the late 80s were – those were good years. Yeah. You weren't even born yet. I snuck in there, Coach. Don't cheat me. It was October of 89, but I snuck in there. So you were hitting like seven decades already, right? Andy took a job at the University of Texas El Paso. Okay.

With a head coach by the name of Bob Stull, who was the head coach of Missouri here for a little while. Yeah. And a friend of mine that I had worked with at the University of Massachusetts got on that same staff. So Andy and Steve Tlander, who was my friend, were on. And I would go visit.

this friend, Steve T. Lander. And it was just, when I was there, I was coaching, I think I was coaching at the University of Connecticut at the time. And you'd go, listen, in college football, you'd go visit other staffs all the time, share information. That doesn't happen in the NFL. That's the one thing you lose when you get to this level, because nobody's sharing ideas, right? Nobody's telling you what they're doing. They're always keeping it up. But so that's where I first met Andy. And then he went from there to Missouri. I was still coaching in college somewhere. But

But we always kind of – we just kind of had a connection, loved football. He was over on offense. I was on defense. But I enjoyed talking with him about that. And then eventually he got the job in – he leaves Green Bay, gets a job in Philadelphia in 99. And at the time, I was coaching in NFL Europe. That was one of my overseas deals. And because of the connection I had had with – Andy asked me to be a part of his staff, which was great. That's great.

That's awesome. I owe him. I mean, I'm not in the NFL if it's not for Andy Reid. The big red. He doesn't have three rings without you either, big guy. Well, that was a pretty good group effort, Trav. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

We all had a piece of it. Yeah, exactly. That's cool, though. I didn't know it went all the way back to El Paso, man. How about it? All the way back to El Paso, Texas. Yeah. I remember playing in a – Andy wasn't a golfer, but I think he came to the golf event. I just remember it was a heck of a time. And that's where you get – listen, players, coaches, it's a paternity, right? Yeah.

And you get around as many of these people as you can. Usually down the road, it's a contact you made a long time ago that gets you a big step. That's what happened to me. I know you said there's not a lot of...

philosophies and techniques and things shared in the NFL but I'd imagine you being around one of the greatest offensive minds in the history of the NFL has shaped how you prepare and game plan like I don't know what what what has that been like learning from the big guy awesome I mean listen it's

Travis and his crew, we were talking about our side of the ball. Let me tell you what the headaches we've got to go through in OTAs. The one headache, though, Travis, we don't have to go through is we don't have to worry about defending the run. There we go. Every call we make in OTAs and training camps, we stop the pass. It could be second and one. We're going to go quarters. We're going to go quarters.

Well, it's always special situations. And yeah, we like to have the ball in Pat Mahomes' hands. Maybe just a little bit. It's probably pretty smart. Yeah, getting back to your point, Jason. I mean, Andy, listen, the great thing about Andy is you guys have seen how he has changed over the years. I mean, when we were defending him in 1999 and 2000 when I was just an assistant coach, it was –

different. We had Donovan McNabb and, you know, his boots and it was when it was two backs and, you know, flow pass and things. And now, you know, Andy's got people all over the place. So he's evolved with the game as good as anybody and give him tools like,

87 and 15 and the rest of them. And Andy's going to find a way to score a lot of points. I mean, the offense from my rookie year in 13 to now is night and day different. It is night and day different. I look at some of the – I'll have fun when we're in training camp and I'll just peek at a few training camp clips from 2013 just to see how far I've come or how far I'm going back. Yeah.

I'll tell you what. Lining up at fullback for, you know, Jamal Charles and Niall Davis back in the day. It's a pretty funny sight to see trying to meet Derek Johnson in the B-gap. We don't do that that much anymore. Sure.

Shermanator's no longer there. Yeah, exactly. No, you don't have him there. You know, Jason, because I was thinking about it today, the year you came out was the lockout year. Is that true? It was, yeah. I took a visit. That has to be. I visited you when you were in St. Louis as the head coach. When I was in St. Louis. But I always thought that that, now you would have been in college, right, Trav, still? You would have been in Cincinnati at that time. Yeah, I was still in Cincinnati.

I would have thought that would have been one of the toughest things to do as a rookie coming in that year. No offseason, boom, right into training camp. Talk about a challenge. It was odd. I got the playbook, believe it or not, Coach, two days before training camp started because they had just released. Yeah, because we couldn't give anything out.

Especially for the later round picks. For some reason, there was like something that happened where if you were a first day pick or a second day pick, they like let you come to the facility or they gave you the book. But there was one day. That's what it was. We drafted Sam Bradford in that draft and he was able to come to the office for one day. And then that was it. They locked everybody out again. It was nuts. It was nuts. Yeah.

So, yeah, I remember showing up and I got into a really fortunate situation because Howard Mudd wanted a more athletic center. So I had an opportunity, but it was it was swimming. It was swimming for sure. And we were running like in Cincinnati. We never had run these two back plays. We didn't do a lot of two back offense. That wasn't a staple of what we were doing. But like.

Fox to run and Fox. What are all these? I don't know what this is. Seven man protection. So it was it was a learning curve for sure. But it was fun. It's funny when you say that. So it really the college football has all of that is kind of made its way now.

into the NFL, right? Oh, yeah. 100%. That's kind of how it's... It usually goes the other way, but it kind of went that way on the open... You know, on the no huddles and all the... I think it was around...

14 or 15 maybe that we, we brought in, I believe it was the head coach in Nevada because he was running that air raid offense. Chris Alt, was it Chris Alt? Yes. So we were bringing it, we were bringing in coach and he was, and he was like kind of like implementing some of the stuff that he was doing, knowing that Alex Smith that we had a quarterback had ran that spread offense in college under Urban Meyer at Utah himself. So,

I mean, it's sort of made its way in. And then all of a sudden these RPOs come in and Chip Kelly over in Philly actually brought a lot of those RPOs and spreading the teams out. Nick Foles throwing seven touchdowns a game.

over there in Philly. It was a fun year. So Jason, you know, and Travis, you probably know when I first went to Philadelphia in 1999, I worked for a defensive coordinator by the name of Jim Johnson, who is legendary in Philadelphia, right? Jason. Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. You guys know that. So I can remember it was probably early two thousands. Cause we're talking about how this football changed and you know how travel on Saturday nights when we have our snack, uh,

that the college games are on. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And we're always watching the college games. And I can remember sitting there with Jim.

in one of those years and watching a college game, and they were running option football and Jim going, this is in 2000 now, right? I'm sure glad we don't have to worry about all that option shit. Really? I don't want to be dealing with all that. And lo and behold, you know, 10 years later, 12, 15 years later, and God bless him, we lost Jim and he wasn't coaching then. But now it is all in this league and we all got to

worry about it makes it challenging yeah and the quarterbacks are much more dual all of them can run and move to a certain extent and

And what is, do you think it's reverting back a little bit though? This air raid offense spread stuff. Now you're seeing, you know, the, what San Fran and the Shanahan offenses are doing so well, Detroit, Philadelphia, obviously has been running the ball. They're still doing the zone reads, but they're finding ways to implement some of these smash mouth concepts that have kind of fallen out of favor. You know, it's funny. I keep, you know, I'm listening like you guys in the off season to all the talk and, and,

You know, will it convert completely back to the way it was? I don't think so. I think the throwing the football is still so exciting in this league. Defending throwing the ball is still exciting. Yeah, but I do think you will see more teams

Maybe the percentages of running will go up a little bit, but not everybody's going to have a Saquon Barkley. You know, I mean, everybody's looking at that right now, but those guys are tough. I guess running backs really are important. Yeah, I guess so, right? They're an offensive line, right? They're an offensive line. Listen, offensive coaches are really smart in this league, so they'll go with anything that's working. I think there'll be a little bit more of a turn toward – I don't think anybody will get away from –

you know, winning games ultimately with throwing the ball. That's all. And especially when let's face it, most of the time, the great teams are close games and close games come down so often. And this is why Pat has been so successful in you guys, Kansas city, you guys, I mean, how many close games you guys close out last year? There were one score, just like,

Whether it's a block kick or a late minute. I mean, it was unbelievable. All 15 of them. That's the truth. I mean, some of them you can't even explain, Travis. I mean, how did that happen? Who knows? I said, I don't know how the hell Leo got that block in Denver. So crazy. Called it too. Yeah, he did. Yeah, right. Do you think some of that –

That conversion back is also what defenses have done. Like defensive now, and you guys have done a lot of this, playing a little bit more like shell, like two safeties back. Still aggressive though. And teams are trying to figure that out. That quarter shift.

And what's the best way to attack it? Well, and what you're on to then, Jason, is because we're so past defense oriented that, you know, running the ball and softening the, you know, getting you out of that and trying to throw the ball is still going to be the game that's going to happen. And I, you know, listen, you guys remember way back when, when, I mean, when the 4-3, remember when the University of Miami had all those

Warren Sapp was there. And they just sat in that shell, took care of the pass with those guys back there. But they didn't have to worry about having an extra gap on offense because Warren Sapp and the rest of them. Vince Wilfork, all those guys are clogging it all up. Oh, yeah. They were just too gapping. Yeah.

putting guys so when you when you when you i mean listen it's and again i go back it comes back to players when you've got players like that you can play virtually anything right and and be successful now when you're not quite as stout up there and and and uh you're trying to defend the pass and you guess wrong and they run the football and it's a 12 15 yard run and then you got to change it up and that's where the game gets a little bit tough i think you'll see more of that though jason i agree with what you're saying

I really do. Yeah. All right. Before we move on from Coach Reed, you got any like favorite Andy Reed stories from back in the day or any gold? You can tell us to keep it kicking, but you know I had to at least ask. Well,

Well, I will tell you this, Travis, and you'll be able to appreciate this. So now I'm a, I get the job in 99. Um, there are two years. I, about, about the third year, Travis is when I met Maria, my wife, and you've, you've met Maria. And you know, you know, she's legendary Jason for the food that she makes, but, but here's what, here's, and so now I'm going to sit, I think I was like quality control or maybe I had become the safety coach or something, but I'm trying to climb the ladder. Right. So, so,

The one way to climb the ladder is to keep the head coach, you know, you keep it, stay on his good side. So on Friday, on Fridays, when Maria would make the, whether it was banana pudding or the sweet potato pie or whatever, I'd always sneak one of those bad boys, maybe two or three of them. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach, these are for you. These are a whole separate package. Just if you need some fuel to get you through the evening. Hey, Travis, maybe that's why I got the chance to come here. There we go. There we go. It had nothing to do with my coaching ability. It had to do with the banana pudding.

That is too funny, man. That is a fucking golden Andy Reid story. I don't have any good dirt stories or anything. No, no, that was golden in itself right there. Yeah, I love Andy. You know that. He's the best. Thanks for presenting sponsor Zillow. Hey! I love Zillow. Love going on Zillow. Who's ready to spend millions of dollars? Me!

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How did it all start for you in the coaching world? How did you know you wanted to get into it? Was it always a passion of yours? Yeah. I'll tell you what, Trav, I can go back to –

I remember being in high school. Now, listen, you guys know I didn't grow to be big like you dudes. So I didn't – we all wanted to be pro football players. I grew up outside of Boston, so it was either that or hockey. That wasn't going to happen. There we go. There we go, baby. So I decided that I did want to coach. And I went to Springfield College in western Massachusetts. It was a big phys ed school, had pumped out a lot of coaches, coaches.

For that reason. And listen, when I went to college, my goal was to go to college, play Division II football, get a phys ed degree, come back to my high school, teach phys ed for the rest of my life, and coach high school football. That was the... That's a pretty good gig. That was the gig. That's what I was going to do. And then along the way, I got there, and that school had a lot of...

guys that had graduated and were coaching in college. And so I got to meet those guys along the way. One of them was at Wake Forest and this guy was at Boston College. And so that kind of sparked my interest. And so I kind of set my sights on coaching in college football, which I did for 15 years. And, you know, in the back of your mind,

you know look at you you're hoping that maybe someday you get a break in coaching the nfl but you know then you were looking at a you know short white dude from new england who else gonna hire that guy to coach football you know uh but luckily we go back to the story of the connection with andy that i was able to get a break but it's all trav it's always my mother uh was a teacher for

35, 40 years. So that, I think that bug of teaching and helping other people and being able to see somebody go from being non-skilled or slightly skilled to getting really good because you've helped them, that's kind of always been there. And that's what I enjoy. That's what I really enjoy about it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's awesome.

What did your mom teach? She was actually a special needs teacher. So that takes a little bit of patience. English and special needs that she had in mostly the junior high and elementary school levels. That's awesome, man. Shout out to Mama Spags. Absolutely. Yeah, why not, right? Yeah, got to, got to. She pointed me in the right direction. Yeah. We all needed that. Everybody needed that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Well, you won your first Super Bowl in 2007 as a D.C. with the Giants against the undefeated New England Patriots. How crazy was that to go into a game with the Monstars that they had over there on that offensive side, as well as the fact that they were going –

into it as unbeaten throughout the season. Listen, Trav, when I, before that game, and we had a, you know, we had a good group of dudes, you know, you know, Michael and Strahan and you guys, you guys know all those guys. But I will tell you this, when, when we started game planning for that game, because they were a juggernaut,

with the guys they had that most points scored ever in the nfl in nfl i thought if we could hold them under 30 points that that that that way might have it that would be a good no that's that and jason that's not usually what you say right right right right but i just felt like that if if we didn't do that we had no chance at least and i thought our offense would score a little bit and it kind of went a different way it became kind of a defensive battle but they were that good and tom was so deadly

You know how he is. We're talking about cerebral. You do one thing, you know exactly where to go with it. There were two or three wrinkles.

And in every game, we always do that with changes two or three. They don't always work, Jason. You know, you figure out a way to pick it up. But the two or three key things that we had actually worked in that game and made a huge, huge difference. The guys executed them perfect in critical situations. And I think that kind of built our little – the best thing that happened that year. And really, I think Mike Strahan and the guys would tell you this, Trout and Jason, that the key –

to having the confidence to beat them was when we played them in game 16. They beat us in the final game. They went 16 and 0. We just kind of, it was a slugfest. And we were right in there. And I guys, I remember Justin Tuck walking off the field. I vividly remember this. We were in the end zone at Giant Stadium and him saying, coach,

If we get to play them again, we can get these guys. Like he, just walking away, he felt that way that day. Now, we didn't know that, you know, fast forward a month later, we were going to be in there playing the undefeated Patriots. But our guys had that kind of confidence going into it. And when you got the leaders breathing and speaking confidence like that, man, it just oozes into everybody else's, like, veins. Yeah, we just got on a roll. Justin Tuck is...

He's one of those guys. Do you guys know Justin? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's the real deal, man. Notre Dame guy, smart. You talk about another cerebral football. So this is what Justin – so Justin was –

Right now, Trav, I usually use Leo for this and sometimes Drew Tranquil, but he's our – Justin Tuck was our joker. Yeah. You know, Jason, the guy that – Oh, no. He had a D-Lineman number on, so you count him as a D-Lineman. He's never going to be counted as a linebacker. Not going to happen. No, no, no.

or in the D line. So Thursday is the big third down day, right, Trev? Yes. Jason, I'm sure you've done the same thing. And so we would put these blitzes in and he'd be the joker and I'd put them in all different spots. Moving on, moving on. He would mess everything up on Thursday. And he'd say to me,

Coach, I'll be good. I'll be good. And ultimately, by the time Sunday rolled around. He was. He had. Yeah, he had. It was awesome. But he was good, too. Doesn't breed the most confidence from the coach in the middle of the week. When you walk away, you go, should we take this out? Should we take that out? Yeah. He was the best. Those guys, that crew was a special crew, too. Really was. If you don't mind me asking, what were the wrinkles that you did to throw Tom or the New England offense off?

Just give us one. Just give us one good one. Okay. The one we did was, and you guys will know this, so you know I like to run overload pressures, right? So, photo side. Free safety wheel or nickel mic or whatever. Yeah, yeah. You know, and typically the linebacker away from the overload, Jason, would kind of sugar up. Yeah, and he's pulling out. And the minute he pulls out, everybody turns over that way. So, that particular game, I said, look, the first time we run this,

Antonio was supposed to come and said, Antonio, you don't go as the Mike linebacker. And Kavika Mitchell did what we call a coffee house. He made it look like he was, but he ended up going. And by the time he turned and went, nobody picked him up and we got a sack out of it. The old coffee house. Yeah, exactly. And we did it early enough, I think, where once that happened, and it's something you would practice for two weeks, right? I think the guys go crazy.

Holy shit, that worked. That's great. We're on a roll. Let's do the next thing. Let's do the next one. So that helped that it worked on that particular day. They don't always work, like I said, but that was one of them. And just blitzing that guy once makes us be honest with it.

Because we were going to it a lot of times and like, hey, every time this guy mugs up in the A gap, he bails and they blitz. With the free safeties down over here, they're running the four to a side over here. So you're like trying to play that where it's like, hey, number, like this guy's right up on the ball. If he comes, the back better be pretty stout picking this guy up. Otherwise, it's not going to be good.

So you just do that once, and then all of a sudden, the whole game plan, now you're chasing that one right from the get-go. Because you're like, hey, nobody – Because it might happen again. Yeah, it's like, hey, nobody got – I don't think we ran it again in the game. I think it was just that one shot. Yeah, but sometimes that's all it takes. Just need one. And then it's in our heads. Now we've got to hire that guy. Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yep, yep. I love it. Coach, I've got to ask you about your time –

In Frankfurt, dude, I think it is such a unique opportunity. And it was cool. It had to be cool to go back to the city and actually play there last year. You were the defensive coordinator for the Frankfurt Galaxy in Germany. And what did you take away from your time in Europe before coming back to coach in the NFL? Yeah, listen, the first of all, because it was from there that Andy called me. I was going to go back.

the next year in 99 back to frankfurt really how about this how about that you had that you'd love those schnitzels that much huh i was good well here's the thing i i i actually i at the time i think i was living in toledo ohio i was in ohio you guys oh yeah oh yeah i i took a german class to

to try to learn a little bit more German because I thought I was going back. I learned nothing. I learned Dankeschön and Wienerschnitzel. That was about all. What else do you need? You only learn a language if you're over there and you're speaking it. But listen, I spent two years in NFL Europe. One year in Barcelona, Spain. That was in 92 or 93.

and then in '98 in Frankfurt, Germany. And those were two of the

Funnest, most enjoyable coaching experience. And one of the reasons, not only being over in Europe and seeing all that, that's kind of cool. You guys have been there and everybody should go travel abroad because it's five figures great. I love it. Yeah. But the other thing was, remember this now, the guys that we were coaching were all guys that might've got cut from an NFL team, right? That were looking for another shot.

And so they were so – it was the most motivated, in-tune, embraced group of guys you could have because they were all trying to get somewhere else. It wasn't like they were chasing money. They were chasing another opportunity of playing football. So I valued that. And to go back, Trav, with you guys and –

It was two years ago we went? Yeah, two years ago. To Franklin. And it was at that same stadium. The last year I was there, we played in the World Bowl. We got beat by the Rhine fire, but it was in that stadium. It looked completely different when we went back, Travis, because it was different when I was there. But it was a great experience. And some of the people were still there that did remember that I coached there. That was really cool. Not as cool, actually.

I wish that league, I wish it was still, listen, Jace, I'll tell you what, you talk about developing O-linemen. Yeah. That league was great for it. You know, who was just over there was, it wasn't, it's not NFL Europe anymore, but we just had Joe Thomas on. He was coaching over in Munich last year and he said, yeah, he loved it. And in particular, the O-line guys and you're taking these guys that are new to the game and it's a little bit different than what it was with NFL Europe, but it's,

He still loved it. I went over when I first got here, Trav, in 2019, I went over to Italy to do a camp with some coaches from the Chicago Bears. It was a tie in with one of the, one of the coaches for the Bears was an Italian guy coaching that league. When you go over there and you work with, um,

European people that are into American football, you have the most captive audience. They're dedicated. Oh, they're into it and they love it. And listen, the level is completely different. But I just think it's great. I wish the NFL Europe would make its way back. But anybody that's ever gone over there to do that, just like Joe Thomas, they've always come away loving it.

Yeah. Let me ask you this. Do you think we'll ever see a division over there? There's been talk of it. Ooh. Maybe one team in London, one team in Germany. One in Milan, one in Dublin. It'd be fun. First of all, I would love that, number one. But the thing would be – all right, so here's the hard part. You can go to – let's use the Dolphins.

You go to Miami – you're a free agent, right, Travis? Yeah. You go to the Miami Dolphins for X number of dollars. Yeah. Or you could go to London for X number of dollars, which is basically half because London's pretty expensive. I mean, you've got all those dynamics that kind of make it tough, but I sure wish that would just. I think it would be terrific. It makes the game global, right? Yeah. I think it would be great. And it's starting to feel like –

from what Joe was telling me, from what you're telling me in Germany, like, I think the global demand for it is higher than it's ever been. And, like, when we go over to London, it's insane. I mean, it feels like an all-star game because there's people in jerseys from all over the place. That's true. But it's pretty cool. But I don't know. The only time those trips are really fun, though, Travis, when you win, when you don't win. That's a good point. That's a good point. Playing right back, baby. That is true.

It's like, never going back. You got to win. That's how it always works. We've been fortunate. We've won all our international games. We did. We've been fortunate. Thank you to our sponsor, Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Do you know how to check if you've got all the equipment before getting to your kids' games? Like you know to check if you've got enough chargers?

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Let's get to our last segment and get you out of here, Coach. We appreciate your time, but we got one last segment called We Gotta Ask, But You Don't Gotta Answer. We always end the combos. You can either answer it or you can tell us the kick rocks. Yeah, I can plead not guilty. There you go. Plead the fifth. I can plead the fifth, right? I can plead the fifth, yeah. All right. What was your initial reaction to Justin Reed's In Spags We Trust t-shirt? Oh, man.

I was trying to burn those so quick, Travis. I couldn't.

I mean, listen, humbling. So humbling. I love Justin. He's the best. But every time I had to shake my head, that's just hard for me to see. Yeah, I was trying to burn him up. No, man, you know I had to get one of those things. I know, you're the best. Those things were selling like hotcakes, Coach. So cool. I don't know about that. So you don't have one yourself? You didn't just sneak one for old memory? I can honestly say I don't have one. That's too funny. I can look at my face. I can look in the mirror and see that same thing.

I love it. So you're talking about Maria being a tremendous cook earlier. She's known to cook an Italian dinner for the players that have the best hit every win, and it's called the Cram Award. Is this real? That's real. When did this start? That is real. And who gave her that idea? So we've always had an award. It's been called different things, but two years ago, because it's been two seasons now,

My wife loves animals. And so she gets on these videos and she found Tony Breaker is a comedian. He does these voiceovers, Jason, of like, just imagine two rams, you know, they're doing this, right? But he's talking through, they're funny. They're funny as shit. And we always play a clip of it because

before we give the award out. So Maria is the one that said, you ought to do this. You ought to make the award this Cram Award. She's the one. And then she offered to, you know, I said, well, we got to give them something. So that's where the pasta came in. But they love it. Listen, they wait for Saturday morning's trial.

to see who's got it. Chris Jones said to me one time, listen, I don't want a game ball. I can give the game ball to somebody else. I just want to win the crown once I get Maria's pasta. That's Maria's pasta. It's so good. Is it always red? What's Maria working with usually? She'll change it up? Yeah. Nick's not a red sauce guy, so the fettuccine or the white sauce. You name it, Jason, she can make it. I guarantee you.

You want to put your order in? I was about to say, I've got to get involved on this now. You're going to jump in on that bad boy. We've done it everywhere we've been. When we were in New York and we would do it for the defense there, the old lineman, Jason, found a way. Oh, yeah. Friday, they found a way.

I heard later on that for some reason all the defensive guys weren't getting the banana push. Yeah, what's going on here? It was Chris Snee and it was – O'Hara or – Yeah, O'Hara, Sean O'Hara. All those guys were getting – Deal. Yeah. Deal was a big part of it. He was a big part of it. Hey, you got to feed the old linemen, right, Trav? It doesn't matter.

Come on now. You always got to look at it. You got to take care of the O-line. Always. Just like you knew to take the pies to the head coach, the offensive linemen know where the pies are coming from. They know where they're coming from.

They sniff it out. That's right. I got to ask you this, Coach. What was your first impression of Travis Kelsey? Oh, God. Well, the first impression would have been having to defend him when he was playing. And that was like, what a headache. I'm going to go against this guy. Now, Trav, I think the one game when I was in New York, I think I got fortunate because one of your wideouts didn't play.

And we were able, Jason, we put like three guys. Double them. At least doubled. Might have been tripled, but. Landon Collins plus the linebacker plus. Exactly. Yeah. All over the place. We weren't going to let 87 be this place. And then when I got to meet him here, I mean, listen, I'm not saying this because you're sitting here, Chad, but you're one of the purest down to earth players.

that anybody could ever meet. And I just think that's a great quality for both of you guys to be who you are and what you are in this world and just be regular guys. I mean, look, I'm sitting here with the Kelsey brothers. Yeah, bro. You're the best. That means the most coming for me, coach. Here's what I would say is don't ever change. Yeah. Because you guys are the real deal. And I know you won't. You got it, coach. Do you remember the –

The pass that I threw against you back in 2000? That was against the Giants? Oh, my gosh! Man, I remember it like it was yesterday, and now I see it more than ever. Did Landon pick it off? Oh, yeah. Well, I think I more so just threw it right to him than he picked it off. It was the most impressive 80-yard torpedo of an interception, but it was...

Well, he was going back to his Cincinnati days. That's right. Exactly why I was in there. Playing Wildcat. Yeah. Exactly why I got moved to the tight end. Hey, Travis, have you thrown – well, you have thrown since. But, I mean, that season, the boss, go back to the well. Oh, he did. That was good. You got to understand, I went gung-ho. You went rogue. You did. I decided to – I had one read, and it was throw it to Tyreek. And Tyreek looked like he was double covered, so I looked to the backside. Yeah.

Back across the field? Yeah, back across the field where Coach told me not to throw it. You don't have a regression, Travis. You have one guy and then you run the football. And I was just like, man, I'll tell you what –

I don't know. I can do it. I'm just going to assess the defense. And as soon as we got into a funky formation and the linebacker at the time – I forget the linebacker at the time, but he immediately checked a cover two to just kind of – It would have been – I think it was Calvin Shepard. Yes. Yeah. And it was just kind of just to make sure that they were prepared and ready for anything because we were in a weird –

And sure enough, I get the ball. I see the backside safety kind of close on Tyreek to the point where it kind of felt like I was hoping that would happen just so I could go and do my own thing. He wanted to go a little rogue and show everybody he knew what was going on. Coach Reed knows not to put me in that situation ever again. I appreciate you doing that back there. Thank you.

The funniest part is Alex Smith comes running over to me and I'm just like, I can't even look Coach Reed in the face. He's like, don't worry about it. It was like a punt. I was like, it was second down. It was second down. Good positivity, Alex. No, you guys got us that day. Let me ask you this. Other thing that Travis is known for is laterals out of nowhere. Do you think that's an underutilized offensive tool? Is that difficult for defenses to defend?

Oh, no question. But I'm not sure I'd want anybody other than Travis doing it because that's a tricky deal from when I see it, when you're doing it, Travis, I go, huh? Yeah. Everybody's heart stops for a second. That's all good. That's all good. But no, that's a... Like, I watch these guys do it in practice all the time. And I think, Travis, because...

The other guys now know that you're capable of that. They're aware. They get around. I've watched that kind of develop while we've been here. It wasn't always like that. But then once they know that when 87 gets the ball in his hands, he can do something special with it. And

That was the one that – what was the one, Trav, we had that we were offside on? Oh, Baltimore. Oh, not Baltimore. Buffalo. Buffalo. It was Buffalo. It was Buffalo, I think, two years ago. Because that was sweet. That was so good. That was a sweet, sweet play. My God. I felt that it was man-to-man coverage, and I just – I don't know what was – that was a bad – now, that was the best throw of my NFL career right there. I threw that one about 30 yards across the field.

That was awesome, man. I figured then we were in. We were good. That was beautiful. It's like you're playing with Larry Bird. You're going to have your head on a swivel. Be ready for it, right? And, Jason, going back to your point about, you know, now with Travis doing that in practice, because I think I see a little bit of that sometimes.

up from other people. Detroit did it a few times this year. Yeah. Since we do it in practice, that will help us defend it if it gets done against us, which I think is good. Yeah. There you go. As someone that has done it, is throwing an NFL challenge flag fun? Because it just looks like it's got to be a blast, right? Yeah.

Or running down and calling a timeout when you're not supposed to, like I messed up doing last year. I'll tell you this, because I was a head coach for three years. That's one of the, that's a pressure-packed, tough thing to do and to put on. I mean, listen, it's a, you got to trust the person you got upstairs, right? You got to, if you can't see it, you got to feel good. It's got to, because nobody really wants to throw that thing.

And have it get overturned. And every wide receiver is going to come over to you and tell you that they caught the ball. Absolutely. Now, I had that happen when I was a head coach. Come running over. Now, I think it was my first year as a head coach, a rookie head coach. But if he's saying he caught it, he must have caught it. So his eye goes out. It sure as shit. Incomplete. Incomplete. But they all want to say that. Thanks for the tip.

But you know what, Travis? There are. Listen, I'm sure Coach Reed does this with you. There are certain guys, I'm sure, on his offense that he trusts. And if they say, I caught that.

and he didn't see it or they didn't see it, then I'll bet you he's throwing it because he just believes in, you know, somebody's not saying it just to say it. And vice versa. I promise you, I'm not going to be that guy that tells Coach Reed I caught the ball and he has to win. If it's a question, I'm going to be like, Coach, I'm not going to lie. I have no idea. You're going to have to go to somebody else on this. You're going to have to ask Fraze up there. Yeah. But it's a chat. That's a tricky deal. Do you have a favorite Super Bowl win of your four? No.

Oh, well, listen, well, let's put it this way. So back when, when we won in 07, and that was a, that was a great Superbowl winner. So it's the first, you know what I, you know what I prayed that that wouldn't be the most special moment in the NFL. And fortunately for me,

other ones came. Because if that was the peak, I mean, at the time I was 47 years old, so I had a little bit more time in the league. But every time you win one, that one at that time, right, Trav? Oh, yeah. That's the special one. I mean, but they all kind of

rest on their own. Yeah, they have their own place for sure. I'm with you on that. I will tell you this, Jason. The one when we beat the Eagles a couple years back. I know. I will tell you this, Jason. I still was not happy because you guys scored –

Too many points, you know. You know how I am, Travis. It's about not giving up points. So that kind of ate at me, even though we won the game. You bowed up when it mattered, though. Well, yeah. But thank God our offense scored as many points as they did. No doubt. Man alive. We've had this conversation before. It was hotly debated on the Internet. As a defensive coordinator, do you think the average person could get one yard in the NFL?

Just put somebody out there. Can they get a yard? Take somebody out of the front row and just throw them in there and see. And that guy's for real. Oh, yeah. No, I don't think that.

Our guys are too good, too big, too fast, too strong. I mean, come on. You got to know how to set up a block. You got to know how to, like, there's so many. It's not as easy as these guys are making it, man.

Do you guys remember the show? Didn't they have Pros vs. Joes? Yes. Oh, yeah. Great show. Oh, yeah. You guys ought to be on that. Jesse Armstead. You guys know who Jesse Armstead is? Yep. Linebacker in this league. Real good friend of mine. He's great. He's a University of Miami guy. He was on – I got the clip somewhere because when Jesse was with us in New York, I pulled it out. But he was on Pros vs. Joes. And this guy came out. I don't know who the dude was. He was in Jesse's face and everything.

I'm going to tell you what, man, Jesse near killed him. Yeah. And I was like, Holy cow. I thought that was a funny show. That was a pros versus Joe's. Yeah. No, that show was one of my favorites, man. It's hard for guys to do that. And, you know, I don't know, come back to play in the NFL, but, uh,

That show was a blast. Hopefully they can remake that thing. Yeah, I thought it was. I guess it went away. I haven't seen it in a while. Yeah, I haven't seen it either. Who was the toughest player you ever had to game plan for in your career? Well, I mean, listen, Tom jumps out there. I was about to say, yeah. Yeah, because he was Tom Brady, and we had some pretty good battles. But I will say this. These quarterbacks nowadays that run and pass, and Travis, it seems like we see him every week.

You know what I mean? To me, they're the... So if you've got the quarterback that's smart and intelligent, can get you in and out of a bad play or a new good one, that can throw the football and that can run it. And they're in this league. Yeah, it's deadly there. There seem to be more and more. To me, that's the...

That is simply the toughest challenge. You can take a – you can double a wide out. I mean, listen, if it's the running back and you want to overcommit, you can take away a running back for certain periods. But when the quarterback can do all of that, yeah. That's what I always felt. And, listen, I think Saquon deserves all the credit he can get. But I've said this multiple times. When you have a running quarterback –

It forces the defense to play it honest. They can't cheat to get those numbers right. No question. Where are you going to give at? You got to be in some place where we're going to have leverage. And that has opened up so much for the Eagles in my time there. And it's the same thing. It's happened across the league with Lamar. It's even Josh Allen. Like all these guys, yeah, they're all doing it. Patrick does it. Listen, when you – third down to me, I love third down –

We take a lot of pride in third down. And to me, when you can win third down, you've got a pretty good chance of keeping the points low. When you win third down on offense, you're going to score points. And when you add to defending on third down that the quarterback can pick it up with his legs for seven or eight, that makes it really hard.

There's certain things you can't do and open up a lane for Josh Allen to take off and get a, or, you know, Jalen did it in the, in the Superbowl. We had, I thought we had really good, you know, you get the perfect coverage, but he finds a pass rush lane and boom, he's the first out because he gets it with his legs. Those are, those are the challenging guys. Well, we always ask everybody that's in the NFL, this question, what was your welcome to the NFL moment? Ooh, yeah.

Welcome to the NFL moment. Okay, you ready for this one? Yeah. I'm in Philadelphia as the quality control coach, the first year in 1999. We're in our first OTAs. Maybe it's the

fourth, fifth, or sixth practice, whatever. I'm the guy in charge of bringing the book out that has the cards, you know, so you can stand up there and show the offense what to do, right? Well, at the time, in Philadelphia at the time, Jason, we were in Veterans Stadium. The vet. The vet. And our offices and locker room was in the vet, but our practice fields, you had to drive or walk across the parking lot. So it was a...

A quarter of a mile. And then the fields were out there and there was a little bubble there. Well, on this particular day, the quality control coach is supposed to have the book when the whistle, the horn goes and we're going to now we need to cut. I forgot the book. Oh, no. I'm in a flat out.

Oh, no. Because the book's all the way in the vet over there. And listen, and I remember it to this day. Jim Johnson was terrific. He's like, no big deal. He walked over to like the quarterback coach and said, listen, give us a little bit of this. Give us a little bit of that. You know, he ran 10 plays. And then the offense goes now, right, Trav? They were up. So at that time, I was sprinting, you know, through the parking lot. They're kidding.

to go get that book. And I got back before the next period began. But that was when I thought my NFL career was done. That's amazing. I would have been in pure panic. I'm panicking right now just thinking about being on the show. I thought I had ruined the whole thing. But that one just kind of sticks out because it was early. But it was great. That's incredible, Coach. 92% as Coach Spence.

Thanks, baby. Yeah, baby. Man, I love you guys. You guys are the best, man. Thank you so much for the time, the stories. That was awesome, Coach. I appreciate you guys asking me to do it. I really do. When I was your guy's age, I was dreaming about being on the Kelsey Brothers show.

It's too good. You're the best, Coach. I always wanted to be on the Kelsey Brothers show. A dream come true for all of us, big guy. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go up right now and take another hour or two, Jason, to figure out how to stop whatever Coach Reed and Travis and Patrick are. They're driving shit in the dirt trying to beat us in the OTA. I love it. I love it. You know it. You guys are the best, man.

Alrighty, that wraps up another episode of New Heights. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the New Heights channel. Follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Once again, New Heights is a Wondery show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Zillow. Download this app today.

Follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with 1S. Thank you to our production and crew always making us look good. And shout out to Spags. Can't wait to run it up with you again this year, man. Had so much fun with that one. 92%ers, appreciate you guys tuning in. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this Spags episode. Peace. Thank you, everyone.

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