Ep 278: John Kearns (Tasting Menu)
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Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, or is it, James? Now, some listeners already will have, like, they'll be walking along listening to this on their headphones and they've already stumbled and tripped up because they're like, hold on a second. Why isn't Ed doing one of his brilliant well-thought-through introductions? Where's the brilliant well-thought-through introduction? Now, the reason is, is because, listen...

We've got loads of formats knocking around in our heads. Oh boy, we're format machines. And often we thought, how would we be able to get some fan favourites back on the podcast so they can experience it all again and learn more about these wonderful guests that have just been on it once. Isn't it unfair that because of our format, we only give everyone one dream meal? Well, we've decided.

We're going to bring people back, but instead of just asking the same questions again, they're going to have a meal tasting menu style. Yes, tasting menu style, but they'll be eating the dream meal of another previous guest. Yes. We're not quite sure what we're calling this format yet. Off-menu switcheroo. Yeah. Off-menu jumbled up.

You know, like when you're a kid, you both got your packed lunches and you trade. I don't know what that's called. Off-menu, you know, when you're a kid and you've got your packed lunches and you trade. Yeah, could be called that. Yeah. But either way, that's what we're doing and you can't stop us. Yes, we're doing it. So this is the first one we've recorded of these. I'd imagine what will happen is they'll be released sporadically. Yeah. As you know, they're not going to be...

every week because we've still got the main podcast there's still plenty of people we want to talk to yeah we're spoilt for choice we're spoilt for choice so these will just drop in now and again a little treat into your podcast app yeah and we are very excited to have a returning guest of course

a returning guest everyone loved his first episode and now he returns it's John Kearns John Kearns look we know John Kearns we love John Kearns he's an amazing comedian he's done Taskmaster he's done plenty of other things he has got a special available on Sky called The Varnishing Days so make sure you go and watch that what an amazing show I mean it's one of the best shows I've ever seen yeah

Fantastic. Flawless. Flawless. But that does not mean we respect John, and I'm sure we will bully him. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, we're definitely going to bully him. And we're going to be feeding John the menu of Miriam Margulies. Yes, John will be receiving the menu of Miriam. Yes. I just like the four of them together, even though she's not going to be there. Yes. And it'll be interesting to hear John's reaction to her menu. Yeah. You know, this is not so much the dream restaurant as they're going to an actual restaurant. They're still having a dream meal.

But it's not, it's someone else's dream. It's not their dream. It's so, you know, that's what a tasting menu is essentially. Yeah. It's someone else's idea of a dream meal. Yeah. And you don't get a say in it and they're serving it to you. And obviously because of that, no secret ingredient. Nope. Because it's all predetermined.

It was originally a stick of rock when Miriam came on it. That was the secret ingredient, if she mentioned rock. I guess if John says, this is all delicious, do you mind if I add a stick of rock to it? Then we will chuck him out. But I can't foresee that happening. You have my word, listeners, we will do it if he says that. But of all the people we thought of to do the first little go of this type of format...

John was top of our list. He's a good sport. He's a good sport. So, how we can even introduce this bit, James? This is all very exciting, isn't it? Yes. This is not the off-menu menu of John Kerns. Welcome, John, back to the Dream Restaurant. Thanks for having me back. Hello again, John. Is that the new catchphrase, is it? Yeah, it had to be. I thought as I was about to do it, oh, I haven't settled on anything here.

Like, you know, normally I know what I'm saying when I've burst out the lamp. But I guess for these ones, it's going to be hello again and then their name. Hello again. On first name terms as well. Originally, when they were on it for the first time, I said their full name. Welcome, John Kearns, the dream restaurant we've been in for some time. But like, now it's hello again, John. Hello again, John. So when I left, you went back in the lamp? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I hate to break it to you, he has popped out the lamp for some other people since. Yeah, that's right.

You know you weren't the only ever episode of Off Menu, right? Well, it's the one I've heard. Yeah, yeah. Did you listen back? No.

That should be the question we ask every guest who comes back on. Did you listen back to it? I don't know what order this is going out in or when it's going to go out, but I mean, it should be fairly obvious now. This is our first time attempting the new format. Who listens back? Sorry? Who listens back? Well, James doesn't. I'll tell you that much. Imagine you're on the train, right? Yeah. And someone spots one of you two and they look at your phone and you're listening to off menu. That's a nightmare. Yeah. Imagine. Do you listen back?

If it's been like a year since we recorded it and I really enjoyed it, I'll listen back, yeah. But I'll do it in the privacy of my own home, locked in my toilet so my wife can't see. But she can hear. Oh, you've got headphones on? Yeah, I've got headphones, man. We're doing all right now. I'm playing out the speakers in the toilet. Do you not have headphones? You could have the door open if you had it on speakers. Yeah, yeah, exactly. She'd still know what was going on in there. Yeah, come on, John, get real. I didn't grow up with any locks on the...

bathrooms or toilets in my house. Really? Yeah. Why? Did none of them work or was it just they were removed and your parents were like... There weren't any locks. No locks at all. So how did you... You just put your feet at the door, base of the door. What, hang on. So you'd still have the door shut, you'd be putting your feet on the door? Of course I'd have the door. Yeah, the door's shut, but like... I thought you were saying you grew up in like a very free household where... God, no!

I'm just saying there's no locks in case you just... I don't think there are any locks in any door. Front, back. Front door, back door. Locks. No locks on other doors. Windows? Yeah, windows are locked. Yeah. Anything...

but like inside the house. No locks. But then why were you having to push your foot? I mean, surely everyone in the house knows there's no locks. You don't know if someone's in there though. Yeah, so you knock. Yeah. I would get pretty accustomed to knocking and not just opening any closed door where someone could be having a shit. But there's only one door where that's happening. There's not any closed door. So what, are you in your bedroom? Do you have your feet on the door keeping it shut?

How small were the rooms in your house? Were they all built so you could, small enough to put your feet on the door? The toilet, yeah. You could put your feet on the door. Like main bathroom? No. You're kind of just staring at it open for the best. But you are staring at it so that if they do come in, you're looking right at them. Yeah, it was small enough where you'd know if someone had come in. Yeah.

Can't think of a room where you wouldn't know someone had walked in. Did you ever do sock on the door handle? Sock on the door handle. Let him figure it out. Sock on the door handle. Right. I'm just picturing like a video game, me walking up to a door with a sock on the door. Right. Yeah. I think I know what's going on in there. Okay. Yeah. I'm not walking in. No. Yeah. If you see a sock on the door handle. Is there only one person in there? Well, yeah, I guess so. Talking about your bathroom in your childhood home.

I'm not saying if you saw a sock on the door handle, you'd be like, oh, my parents are banging. Well, that's what it usually means. If people put a sock on the handle of their bedroom door or whatever, it means they're getting down to it.

What are you telling your parents that? Huh? What do you mean? Is that a symbol for your parents? I don't think people do it when they're living at home. Yeah. So their parents know not to commit. I mean, maybe some people have that. This isn't a thing. What? This isn't a thing. This is in movies. Neither.

Neither of you have done it. I haven't done it. I don't know anyone who's put a stop on that. No, I understand that. Also, I don't have many... There weren't many... There weren't many doorknobs in the house. Hang on, no doorknobs? Or locks? Yeah, what's going on? A flat door. You don't put a doorknob on every door. Oh.

I think you do. In a house? Yeah. How are you even shutting the door? Is there no latch on it at all? It's just a bit of wood. I knew you were going to say a bit of wood. It's a bit of wood. I bet you're even going to... I know how it works. You two are going to say it's like cat flaps.

Or saloon doors. James would probably say saloon doors. No, I wasn't going to say that. In your house, with no locks, saloon doors for the bathroom would be perfect. Yeah. You'd see my feet and my head. That's fine. You don't know what's going on in the middle. Yeah. Saloon doors, you don't know what's going on in the middle. Yeah. You could let them do their thing. Actually, saloon doors in toilets is fine. Yeah? Yeah. You'd be fine with that? In Japan, they don't have... The idea was that they'd build the toilet with the most beautiful view from the house and there were no doors.

Well, it's your second time on the Off Menu podcast and the second time you've started a sentence with, in Japan. What do you mean? Oh, what? Ghosts. No, you didn't listen back. Ghosts don't have feet in Japan. Is that what we talked about before? No. We talked about low light, I believe. Low light, yeah, yeah. This is all from the same book, actually. Ghosts don't have feet in Japan. In Japanese cartoons, ghosts don't have feet.

Traditionally, that's where that comes from. What do you mean by that? If you draw a ghost, I doubt he has feet. Yeah, but that's not just Japanese ghosts. So that's why they have saloon doors and toilets. Is that what you're saying? There's no saloon doors in Japanese toilets.

But is the ghost thing anything to do with the... No, that's because we challenged it with Japan. I know three things about Japanese culture. Yeah. Low lights in restaurants. Japanese ghosts don't have feet. And traditionally, toilets were built with no doors facing the most beautiful view that they could get in the house. Right. So when we bring guests back on the Off Menu podcast, John...

What we want to do is a tasting menu for them. Right. So it's one of these restaurants where there's no menu. You don't have a choice. Yeah. There's a menu, but you don't choose from it. It's a set menu. So there is a menu. Yeah, set menu. It's a tasting menu.

What do you mean? You don't need a menu. You got a problem with this already? I'm not just saying you don't need a menu, do you? You just sit there and it's brought to you. Yeah. Like, Mishler's a guy in North Wales. You must know this guy. In North Wales. Gareth Ward. Is it him? In a sheer? Three stars? Yeah. Two.

Two? Well, then, are you talking about the same person then at this point? No, it is him. It's Gareth. Is it? Gareth. Yeah, so different name. Near Mac. It's near Mac. Yeah, man. Yeah, I've never been. I'm going in September. Yeah. You know the guy on social media who's got like... I'm talking to a granddad. Take a...

If you can't take a mate, take a date. The other way round, I don't know where he is. He went there. Do you know this guy? No. Tell me about this guy, John. He goes around. You must know the guy. John, you've got to give us details about him before we say if we know him or not. He's a guy who reviews food. He's a guy who takes the table and sits outside. Not him. Again, different person.

The guy who walks around with a table and sits outside restaurants. Sits outside takeaways. That's cool. Yeah. He's from Bolton, isn't he? Yeah. Well, I like him. Yeah, he's quite funny, actually. This guy, he's quite young, he's hip. Well, if you've not heard of him, then what's the point? Well, you can tell us about him. I thought that was the point. He goes around. The conversation in your mind was going, do you know this guy? We go, yes, and then we'd move on, right?

I'm just saying, the guy, he goes around posh restaurants and he goes anywhere, it doesn't have to be posh, and he just raves about it and his catchphrase at the end of it is, if you can't take a date, take a mate. And he went to the restaurant in North Wales that is two-star Michelin and it was a tasting menu. Yeah. A bit like where I am now. Yeah. Wow.

Oh, so this is what you mean. So that's what that prompted. Okay. So like, but I think they still have menus in those places. Right. I didn't know that. Because you can look at them. Yeah. You can look at them and go. They might not get to you until the end sometimes. Really? So you can see what you've had. Oh, I like that. You take it home. It's a nice memento. Take it home. Yeah. Frame it maybe. Yeah. Some people do that if it's a great thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get the chef to sign it maybe. That's good. Yeah, nice. Nice. Also, how do you know how much something is? Well, I guess it's like when

when you book it, it's like a set price. And also they will say sometimes like, we do like a six course, an eight course, a 12 course. This is how much they all are. This is how much the wine pairing is. We should ask that. Yeah. So you've got to know you like it before you go. But I guess that goes for all restaurants, right? Are you proud of yourself? You feel good about that? What? You must feel good about saying that to me.

You must feel happy. I feel neutral. No, you must feel like... Because of your blip about your... You feel like you got me. Yeah, yeah. You must feel really good about it. I definitely got you there. Oh, no. I'm not denying you didn't get me there. You're scorched earth, mate. But I'm scorched earth. Yeah. It's just my shoes. I'm like the witch, wizard of Oz, just gone. You won't need those shoes where you're going, guys. No. No. No.

No, I'm happy for you. It can be a clip, maybe. I don't know. Because you're English, though. Because you're English. It could be a clip. Well, you have legs when you're a ghost, though. Well, when you picture, like, Henry VIII as a ghost, he's got feet. So, yeah, probably, yeah. Don't know. If I visit Japan as a ghost, maybe they're off. I don't know how it works. Border control, take them. Customs.

Yeah. It's like a bowling alley. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to take your shoes off when you go through security, at least. Yeah, yeah. That's nice. Makes it easier. That's nice. That's too... That's like... I don't know. I'm on the ropes early. You started on the ropes, let's face it. Ever since you were born. Yeah. You're always on the ropes, John. You can't come out swinging. No, yeah. It's quite fun to be on the ropes. Yeah, yeah. Because then the person gets cocky. Yeah. You know,

Like, round one, you start on the ropes. Are you rope-a-doping me? Is that what's happening? Yeah. The tasting menu that we're going to be serving you today is the menu of another guest who came onto the podcast. Now, I wondered whether you were going to do this. Yeah? I wondered whether you'd tell me or if I had to guess. Is that a thing? Well, I'll tell you what. Do you want to just guess now? The worst option out of both of them. Yeah. Actually, you've added a third one that's rubbish. Yeah. John? Ainsley Harriot? Nope. Two more guesses.

Right then. No. These are good guesses though. They've all been guessed so far. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe someone does listen back more than they say they do. I mean, I'm...

What am I thinking? I'm just thinking, what am I basing it on? Whose dinner would we most like to serve to you and think that that would be entertaining? Munya Chihuahua? No, but that's good. That would have been good. We should have done Munya's. Yeah, yeah. Because he knows Munya. Yeah. Yeah, that would have been good. Too late to switch it to Munya? Probably. Yeah. Miriam Margulies. Okay. Okay.

Are you familiar with the work of Miriam Margulies? Yeah. Thoughts? I liked recently, did you see she was on Romesh's show on Radio 2? No. Oh, I did see that actually, yeah. Did you see that? No, go on, tell me about it. He just told her he was a comedian. Yeah. And she stops him. And she's like, are you? Did you see her? No, didn't see her. And he's like, yeah, yeah. She's gobsmacked. She just can't believe he's a comedian. And she's staring at him like, yeah, okay. Yeah.

Yeah, Robesh is pretty famous for being a comedian. Yeah, pretty successful. That's why he's on the radio. Yeah, yeah. I don't know who she thinks. Yeah. I saw a clip with her on Loose Women. She lives with... She's got flatmates, just with two... She's got a lodger. She's got lodgers, yeah. She had a lodger when she was on this. Also, when she was on Loose Women, so I saw that episode, Loose... Well, I think she's on it quite a bit. Oh, is she? But I saw an episode of Loose Women where she starts off by eating a raw onion because they've asked her to do it because they heard...

In another interview she'd done, not naming the interview, that she eats raw onions. That's us. This has started to happen, John. The amount of content we've provided for light entertainment ITV shows without being credited. Yeah. They just go, okay, on off menu they said this, let's get them to do that. They made Timothy Spool's two bag cup of tea on this morning. Yeah. Someone in the ITV offices...

listen to this podcast on the regular and writes down ideas and they chuck them in their shows. You better believe Good Morning Britain are doing a thing about Japanese ghosts having no feet next week. Yeah. You watch it, they're going to absolutely eviscerate the culture. Am I on Good Morning Britain? Or they just, what, they pluck ideas? Oh, they'll say that. No, we've heard. I know I watch Good Morning Britain, but maybe they get people to text in about it. What are your opinion on this? Japanese feet have no ghosts. Japanese feet have no ghosts. LAUGHTER

I suppose that's technically true. It's a weird way around of saying it. It's true. It's true.

Yeah, well, I like her. I like her vibe. You know, growing up, she was... Well, she's interesting. Like, she was the, you know, Graham Norton. She's the crazy one. Graham sits her next to an A-lister. Yeah. And the A-lister doesn't know who she is. And they cannot believe the filth. Like, she jumps out of a tree and gives someone a blowjob. That's like a staple. What a...

I don't remember the tree. Yeah, she jumps out of a tree. She talked about blowjobs on this. Yeah. And then when we ran with that, which we try and do, John, when we're interviewing someone. Well, you go. We try and be like, okay, they're going down this road. We'll go down with them. We're trying to be good hosts. So we tried to make blowjob jokes off the back of that. And she was like, now watch it. That's rude.

Filthy. Did she? You boys are filthy. Did she? Yeah. You boys are filthy. We're not here for filth. And we'd go, okay. And then we'd stop. And then she'd do another joke that's even worse. Yeah. Even more grotty. About being fucked up the arse or something. Yeah. She played you like a violin. Yeah. She absolutely played us. That's what she does. Yeah. So the idea that she shot... I've never seen her shot it down. But she's a contrarian as well. So it's like she doesn't want to...

she wants to be the odd one out she wants to be the crazy person next to the A-lister she doesn't want to be so when she's on her own I think if everyone else and Graham Norton yeah

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to jump out of a tree and give people a blowjob. She would be like, no, that's just rude. No, come on, everybody. We're all better than this. And they'd be like, oh, fuck, okay. I guess we're not going to do that. What was I thinking? I can't believe I even said that. Yeah, yeah. And then as soon as she's got everyone back... What, she then tells the same story like it happened to her? No, no, no. She wouldn't steal it, but like...

If she went on Norton and she was like jumping out of a tree and giving blowjobs or whatever you said. I'm not sure the jumping out of the tree thing. She definitely spoke about the BJs on this podcast. So I believe that she would have brought that up. It's a raison d'etre. And...

if she said that on Norton and then John Cena or someone went yeah yeah and then I grabbed their dick and she'd be like no you do not John this is a chat show on the BBC can you please act like that and he'd be like I'm so sorry she'd be like yeah and then the next thing that gets said to her she would be like never get fucked

get fucked up the bum my son's a bit like that if you're playing cafe with him your son what will he say when you're playing cafe absolutely awful segue John think it through the contrarian John no no no I'm thinking nothing the contrarian thing yeah if you like kids will be having fun with you right

So say you're in his cafe and he's going, you know, we've got six ice creams. Now, you're saying this, obviously I know about your son's cafe, you've told me about it. The listeners don't know. Yeah, I think we need to hear about your son's cafe. So when you're talking about your son's cafe... So you're basically on an off-menu every day of your life, really. Yeah. How old's your son? Three. And he likes to play cafe. Yeah. That's his life. Yeah, yeah. That's his life. This is raison d'etre.

That's one of the dishes. So he's running, is he running the cafe? He runs the cafe. Yeah. I did message James. There was one day he goes, right, uh, you know. So is your son as world weary as you already are? No, no, no. Right. He's like, right, cafe. So you sit there. He's like, okay. Never doubt it'll work. If you don't like it, the cafe gives you a plate empty. Yeah. Uh, if you don't like it, that's fine. Uh,

You just spit it into my mouth. That's his cafe. That's the rule of the cafe. The way you phrased it when you texted me is that he said to you, if you don't like the food I serve, you can spit it back in my mouth, which I find, if you don't like the food I serve, a really funny phrase to be chucking in there.

If you don't like the food I serve, you can spit it back in my mouth. Really aggressive cafe owner. But still making himself quite subservient at the end. Yeah. We're getting the food spat back in his mouth, so it's like he's in charge, but at the same time... Have you ever mimed spitting the food into his mouth? No. No. Because you always like the food. I mean, the thing is, like, if you go to a restaurant...

If a waiter has to do that, the waiter's going, you should really be spitting this in the chef's mouth. Do you know what I mean? So is he not the chef as well? He's everything. He's the proprietor. He runs the place. So yeah, in that respect. Does he tell you what he's serving you? Well, he's never got what you want. He says...

No, but it's usually ice cream. And he goes, what do you want? Strawberry, chocolate or yellow? Yeah, yeah. And you go, yeah, I'll have some chocolate, please. He goes, we've run out. So you go, oh, that's a shame. He's just offered it. Yeah. So then you go, well, okay, I guess I'll have some strawberry. We've run out of strawberry. We're closed.

That is how it happens. Does he think that's funny? Is he laughing at that? No, because, no, no, no, you can't laugh. But is he laughing? No, he's serious. He's like, what are we going to do? We're closed. So then you go, oh, I've got to come back. He's like, yeah. So then you walk out of the room, and then just as you're about to walk out, he says, we're open. Fantastic. He's got to think this is funny. Yeah. What?

Do you get annoyed? You think he's messing with me? I think he's got to know that that's funny. Do you get like mock annoyed about the weird opening hours of a cafe? Yeah, you've got to go like, I can't believe I've come all this way for a chocolate ice cream. And he's loving it. And it's closed. Yeah. And he's like, what do you... You know, he's like, oh...

you can't believe it. And I'm like, I can't believe it. And then he's like, he looks at you and think, Oh, I'll come back off the work. Okay. And just as, as soon as you turn your back, we're open.

what's your job in this pretend play world? Cause it can't, when you say I'm going to come back after work. Yeah. Are you still a comedian in the pretend world? No, you've got an office job. What is the job? Uh, I stand in the garden. Is that a job? Hang on. So when the cafe is closed, you know the answer to that. Yeah. You go and stand in the garden. Yeah. But where's the cafe in terms of your house?

living room yeah it gotta be but you go outside and stand in the garden can you see into the living room if he hasn't opened it before I leave yeah because you've got to keep walking normally it gets you before you open the door you know that scene in is it Goodfellas where De Niro is looking at the I can't remember the wife's name now but there's some new dresses and she thinks she's going to be shot yeah and he keeps telling her yeah just go down that alley there's the dresses that's like my son

He just goes, keep going. Keep going. But you're, you're like, you're going to say it's open before I've got to the door. I know I'm not going to be standing in that garden. No. And then when I'm in the garden, why was he forgotten? How long am I going to stand there? Do you not pretend to be at work when you're in the garden doing your office job or whatever it is that you do in the pretend game? There's a, uh,

there's a berry bush. There's like some black colour, I don't know what they are. Blackberries. Yeah. So I pick them. Oh, so you just pick the blackberries. Yeah. Yeah, and he watches me do that. He watches you do that from the, he's just standing in the living room at this point, owning the house. And you're in the garden picking blackberries. Because he told you that they've sold out of ice cream and they're closed now. Well, it sounds quite idyllic. Sounds quite not a nice way to spend a day. It does actually. Well, actually it's a tough way to spend a day.

Ten hours of that. Because he's got wooden... This is the thing. This is the thing. He does have wooden toys of ice cream. It's not like they're imaginary. You can see it. So he says it's sold out and you can see the chocolate sat right there. He says they've gone, disappeared, sold out. Don't have any. Look.

And they're there. They're right in front of you. And also, kids love, like, if he loves chocolate ice cream, as the owner, he can't sell it to you because he likes it. He wants it for himself. So what's his least favourite flavour? Yeah, he gives you his least favourite. So you go, oh, fantastic. You've got chocolate, strawberry, yellow, and whatever the green one is, right? Mint. So you go, oh, I'd love chocolate. Different classes there.

I'd love chocolate. Yeah. And he goes, yeah, you could have that one though. It's like, well, I don't want the grew. How about the strawberry? Yeah. But you have that one. You have this green thing. So this is like what we're doing. I mean, an owner of a shop who doesn't want to sell the things that they like in the shop. Oh, a bookshop. Yeah. I like that book. That's for me. Well, I want it. Well, no, I like that book.

When are you going to try and teach him that lesson that he's being a bad, bad cafe owner? When he has to, when he understands business rates, you know, paying tax, an electricity bill for the free, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Once he knows life. So welcome to the dream restaurant. No, it's,

We have a wonderful tasting menu planned for you today. Brilliant. Would you like the wine pairing? Yes, please. Thank you. So that means Ed is going to, throughout the meal, pair wine with what you're having. I don't think it does mean that, James, because I'm not improvising wines. You're good at wine. You know your stuff. But I just don't think that would be entertaining me improvising a wine menu. Well, we can edit it out if it isn't, but I reckon it will be.

We'll edit out every wine pairing. Yeah, yeah. We'll keep this bin, but we'll edit out Ed saying that. So people will know it didn't work.

This will be quicker. We'll leave this bit in and then I won't do it. No, no, you can do it. And just let everyone assume it had been edited out. Ed, I believe in you more than you do. I think you should do a wine pairing for me, of course. I think you know your stuff. Every time wine gets brought up on the podcast, Ed knows what wine they're talking about. He knows what it tastes like. He vibes with them on it. I'm going to speak for you here. Thank you. I think if I was you, I'd just want warning. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Because if you know your stuff, I know he knows his stuff, but I imagine he would have like maybe 20 minutes to think about it. Yeah, maybe a day or so. But you're just going to throw him. Well, I didn't think of it a day ago. Right. I thought of it while we were talking. To be fair, this is how all the best format points on the podcast have come about, though. Yeah, yeah. So you just thought off on the hoof, you've got to come up with some wine.

Yeah. Or any drink, I guess. Or any drink. Did Miriam not have, she hasn't included wine? She didn't do a wine pairing. No, she's got a dream drink, which we'll come to later. I'll just have that with every course, yeah? No. Good luck. You got a wine pairing? You said yes to one. All right, well, you know, it's nice to be here, yeah.

Did she talk about what the restaurant looked like and the ambience? She didn't, but if you want to say what you think Miriam Margulies' restaurant looks like, if you look around, it says Miriam Margulies' dream restaurant. What does it look like to you? A lot of trees. A lot of trees. Yeah. What's that cafe in there? Rainforest Cafe. It looks like the Rainforest Cafe, but I mean that gorilla. You're not trusting that gorilla. Yeah.

That's been rigged up to do some pretty sus things mechanically. Every hour. Every hour on the hour, the gorilla jumps down and sucks someone off. Could jump down from anywhere as well.

Oh, you don't know where he is? No, they've got it rigged up. It's all random. Who knows what seat it is? It's not like if you're sitting in that seat. Oh, no. Could be anyone. You've got to be able to book the seat. You don't tell your mate. Yeah, I've heard it's good, man. Yeah, you don't get a menu. What the hell's that? Yeah, sit there. Just sit right there, mate. Did you see something? Just sit. Just stay still for a second. Why do you keep looking up? Just...

Just stay still for... Just stay still for just a second, Will. Down he comes. Imagine taking someone he didn't know. Woo!

It's someone in the gorilla suit. No, it's mechanical. In Rainforest Cafe, if you go to Rainforest Cafe, they've got a mechanical gorilla there. Yeah. His head's going left and right and whatever. That's more dangerous in a way, isn't it? Yeah, you wouldn't want that. Left and right. You wouldn't want that. Can't go up and down. Back and forth. Not up and down.

He comes down. Depending on angle. Yeah, yeah. He comes down sideways. Fair play to the gorilla. Yeah. He's trying his best, isn't he? Do you know what? It's his job. Yeah. He's thinking in the 90s, I just turned left and right. People love that. Now I've got to do this. Kids listen to this, don't they?

Last time you were on it, John, we talked about putting our dick and balls through a bread basket. I wouldn't worry. Anyone who was a fan of that episode isn't going to be disappointed by a mechanical gorilla blowing people.

So yeah, Miriam Mugley's is a rainforest cafe. So it's nice, happy, happy to be here. Fun, fun. Looks nice. I'm just going to put some water on the table for you first. Some still water with cucumber or lemon is what was specified by Miriam. That means you've got a choice there. Are you a fan of the cucumber water? Yeah, it's nice. It feels posh. In my mind, it's like in a big, it's kind of something like your mum did in the summer. Like a big plastic kind of thing.

There's a lot of water there. There's a lot of water. Yeah. You can't have a little thimble of water with a cucumber in it. Well, it's got to be more water than cucumber, hasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cucumber is water. Really? Well, it's not exactly the same. No, I know that, Ed. Because then why would you put it in water, right? I do know that, Ed. I do know that, Ed. Yeah, but you said cucumber is water. No, but you're saying to me...

I know cucumber isn't water. Hang on. Well, let's rewind to what you just said. Cucumber is water. Imagine if, like, John was ever on trial for something or, like, even a witness in a trial. You would be absolutely ripped apart on the stand. They would make mincemeat of you. You know, in Blackadder.

when Baldrick's Blackadder's on trial. Yeah. And for killing the pigeons. And then the witness is brought in. Baldrick walks out. And Blackadder goes, I'm dead. Yeah.

Whoever I was going to help out, they'd be like, well, fuck. Might as well say I'm guilty. Might get a few years off. Absolutely. Character witness. I'd be a good character witness for someone. But when it comes to facts, I don't know. I don't know if you would be, man. If you're ever in trouble. So let's say Ed's in trouble. Right. And you're brought out as a character witness. Yeah. Mr. Kearns, how long have you known Mr. Gamble for? Decade. And, uh...

Good start. Really angrily saying decade. The stenographer just writing that. One word answer. Decade. They're happy. They usually write loads. Yeah, they're happy they've got this guy. He's like, brilliant, I hope this guy carries on like this. I don't. Yeah, no, you're in trouble. And what is your experience of Mr Gamble, Ben? What can you speak? Can you speak to his character? Handsome man. Not a personality trait. Thanks, though.

Yeah, it's nice. It's feeling better in court. Went to school in Wimbledon. Fucking hell. It's Wikipedia. At university, I remember watching him, watching a clip of him doing a student stand-up heat and thinking, oh my God, this guy's phenomenal. Yeah.

He does podcasts. Oh, fucking hell. John, he's going to prison, man. I'm being led away while you're still in the stand. You're avoiding saying he's a good guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. What do you want me to say, Your Honour? Well, that was the judge examining you. You're not being cross-examined by the judge, are you? So you've just spun around screaming at the judge for no reason. Or you're calling the lawyer Your Honour, which is also wrong. If you start saying that to the lawyer, going, what do you want me to say, Your Honour? Everyone's going to be like, this guy's fucking...

He's a phenomenal man. They're asking you to speak to this guy's character. You're a character witness, John. So you can't just say, well, he grew up in Wynwood and he's handsome. I saw a clip of him doing comedy once and I thought he was good. Yes. Stand by it. Stand by it. But all of it is you avoiding speaking about if Ed's a good guy or not. All my character witnesses are going to be character comics. You're there with the wig and the teeth on the stand. Call in the lawyers, Your Honour. Back out. Well, he's a great guy. How do you define a great guy?

A great guy hasn't done anything wrong.

If there's someone who's done something wrong, then that would be the first thing I'd say. But the fact that you haven't done anything wrong in my mind means that you're a great guy. Yeah, but you didn't say that. You just said some facts about him which can't be disputed. You said you know me for a decade and I went to school in Wimbledon. Yeah. You watched a stand-up clip of him and it was good. You thought it was phenomenal. I grew up in South London, Your Honour, my lords, people of the jury.

He's a South London boy. Oh, fucking hell. Straight to prison. I would trust him with my son. That's good. You shouldn't, because I will flip out if that chocolate ice cream's not served to me immediately. Yeah, that's true. And I've met his partner, his wife. I don't know, they seem pretty cool. I think it'd be the first trial where the defence... I go to prison. Well, yeah. LAUGHTER

I think this is the defendant and the character witness. They do a swap deal? No, you both go in. Yeah, we both. I think they'll just chuck you in the cell with him. They'll be like, the defendant's going in and chucking that character witness as well because clearly something's wrong with him. Something's wrong with me? Yeah, he's clearly done something. How do you say someone has good character? You've got to give an example. I would say Ed's always there for you if you need him. Well, he's not. Ha ha!

For me, he's not. Because our friendship isn't that deep. I've got maybe five other people... You still understand? You've never requested me to be there for you, though. I've never reached out to Ed in a moment of crisis. Yeah. Your Honour... Do you feel like you could if you needed to? I think if... So this is the sort of thing you should be saying. I think if I had a moment of crisis, he's in the top...

don't do that top 40 people I'm calling that's actually better than I thought yeah that's not bad I don't think it's good enough for the court room well you make your own minds up wow

If you say that on the stand, he's dead. I'm dead. He's getting fried. He's on the electric trip. They're bringing back the death penalty. That's it. What, just for that? Yeah. What if you're telling the jury you make your own minds up? If you get a character witness and you sit them down and go... You keep banging on about this. I know. You know, I don't have any examples. I can only give examples. If someone was a bad person, then I'd go, yeah, I've got an example when they're bad.

But a good guy, what the fuck are you going to say about a good guy? You've got examples of when they're good. Do you know what's too good about him? The fact that I don't have anything about him is actually that maybe there is something about him. Maybe there is something. He's walking the green mile. He's squeaking clean. He's too squeaking clean. He's walking the green mile. So, John, can you see why James said you'd fall apart in court? Because this is a fake court, then. Imagine him as a lawyer. Yeah. Into your fucking head.

Twirling round. Twirling? Yeah, twirl round. You'd twirl round, mate. Imagine him as a judge looking at you. Fuck me. Kangaroo court. Kangaroo court. Now we have some heavy sourdough bread. Or...

brown bread this is another one where yeah there was an ore in there you did a little sigh when you heard heavy sourdough yeah it seemed to be that spoke to you there's a nice bakery near me but you buy this sourdough unless you're eating a whole loaf in a day the next day it's heavy it's like it's gone yeah

It's gone. Do you not use it for toast in that instance? Well, I read that if you wet it and then put it in the oven or something, it brings bread back to life. You've got to wet it and put it back in the oven. If you get a baguette and it's gone hard. Yeah. If you dip it in water, put it in the oven, it comes back to life. You know, like in Fantasia when the brooms all come back to life. It's like that. So you keep on getting more and more bread. Yeah, you open the oven. It keeps on duplicating. Yeah, there's like 40 of them in there. Jason, yeah?

Chasing you. The baguettes. Chasing you. Remember that in Fantasia? Remember that? Yeah. With the brooms, yeah. Scary. Scary, yeah. Stressful. Genuinely stressful as a kid. Yeah. Thinking, what is he going to do? This is awful. And the pink elephant stuff. Crazy thing going on there. Is there any butter? Not mentioned on this. Maybe it did not specify any butter. Dry, dry bread. Yeah. How are you feeling about that?

My nan used to make sourdough until she was like 90. Wow. Not sourdough, soda bread. Quite a hip nan, I was going to say. No, no, no. I got the bread wrong. This is your Irish nan. Yeah, soda bread. If anyone listening has never made bread before. Benito's lost it. Benito's absolutely lost it that you got the bread wrong. I don't know what you're laughing at. Well, it's funny that you said sourdough. Yeah, what? It's how quickly you realise you'd made a mistake. Yeah.

Sal, I don't know. Soda bread. No, I'm completely wrong again. Soda bread. If anyone listening has never made bread, make a soda bread. You need buttermilk. He's lost it. Ben's gone. Ben's at the point now where everything you say is funny. For the listener...

I don't know what he's laughing about it. Well, there's a thing. I think you know. But like, there's a thing that you do, John, where you can be earnest to the point where it's very funny. So you go in. If anyone's listened, this has never made bread. Yeah. Make soda bread. Yeah. And you're being really serious. And you're stroking your beard from your chin down to your neck. That's right. And you're going like.

Because, ah, buttermilk. And you're just listing it like it's... And when everything you're saying now, I'm imagining you're still in the stand. Yeah, you're still on the stand for this whole thing. Why am I... Buttermilk. When you got the bread wrong, the jury were like, mmm, we don't like this. Ed's had another ten years added to his sentence. And you are on the stand as a character witness for Ed the whole time. So, like, when you go, my nan made sourdough, no, soda bread, they're like, oh...

If I'm in a jury and someone went, my now-made sourdough, sorry, soda bread, I'm not going, hmm. If they're a character witness. I can't trust this guy. If they're a character witness, yeah, I'd be like that. I'd be like, we're supposed to believe this guy. My main thought would be this feels irrelevant. Buttermilk, flour, I don't know, a bit of water in a bowl. Just do it. No proving. You don't have to. You don't have to prove it. Correct. What are you doing, court? LAUGHTER

Yeah, you do. It's a court, then. But burden of proof, mate. You've got to prove lots of things in life. But to make soda bread... List some things you've got to prove. You've got to prove when you go to pay a bill. Yeah. You've got to bring a... When you go to the post office or something, you've got to bring a bill. Proof of address. Proof of address. When you go to an airport, you've got to prove that it's you with your passport. Yeah, proof of identity. Making sourdough, you've got to prove it.

wet cloth over it for an hour, put it in the sun, be proved. Soda bread. You don't need to prove it. Takes 20 minutes, whack it in the oven, nice bit of butter, unsalted butter, then crystal salt over it. Add your own salt. Maybe a bit of jam, whatever you want to do. Blackberry jam? Handpicked? Yeah, my mum took the blackberries to make jam. You don't need to. There's an apple tree in my parents' garden. Were you about to ask me if I knew that there was an apple tree in your parents' garden? Yeah.

No. Okay. I'll have some sourdough. You're going to tell us about the apple tree? What was it about the apple tree you were saying? It's year on, year off. I didn't realise apple trees were like that. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. We've got a pear tree in our... Is it year on, year off? Don't know. Is there a partridge in it? No. Merry Christmas. Here, Mr Kearns, we have for you some chopped liver from Panzer's with IKEA round crisp bread. Thank you.

I wait for you to go before we start talking about it. Yeah, I don't want to upset. I do have to stay for it though, so we can have the conversation. Oh, and the wine pairing with this? Ed?

Now, John, you're acting like you're about to say what the wine pairing is. You can if you want. What is it? Round crackers from Ikea? Yeah. The round crisp bread. Yeah, yeah, I know. Some chopped liver from Panzer's. From Panzer's. Yeah. Deli. Panzer's Deli. Ed, what's it being paired with, Ed? A cup of coffee. A cup of coffee. And a cup of liver and a cup of coffee. Fantastic. Fantastic.

Fantastic. Wow. I like liver. Do you? Yeah. Because it's quite an acquired taste and like... One of the best lasagnas I ever had had chopped liver in it. Wow. Said it really... Got it really meaty. Yeah. Yeah. And I had liver on Pat Cahill's Stag Do. There's a really posh Italian restaurant. What a Stag Do. It was... Because with B. What? In Piccadilly. Italian restaurant. Posh. Posh.

Bella Italia. I reckon loads of people listening would have hoped you said that. Yeah. Went there. And I had the offal. Yeah.

Did you feel brave when you ordered it? Well, no one else ordered it. Yeah. Were they impressed? Was everyone like, ooh, John's getting the awful. Yep. Yep. Cause I said, I've never been there before. You know, you can go anywhere and get a carbonara or anything, but I regret it massively. It was like heart, lung, disgusted. It's awful, isn't it? I'm like, Greg's got a ragu. I'm like, I'd rather have that. I'd rather have that. I,

How many people on the stag? Ten. No, only me, Greg and Pat on the... And this is Greg James? Yeah. You can decide if we edit that out or not, but I think that's a funny detail. It's you, Greg James and Pat Cahill on a three-man stag and you've ordered offal. LAUGHTER

Well, you know, yeah, I ordered offal. But I liked the liver bit. I remember that. Yeah, but you didn't like the heart or the lung? No, God, no. Is that because you were thinking about what it was or did you genuinely not like it? Yeah, that's pretty high up on what I'm thinking about. Yeah.

Pretty high up. Do you know the heart rolls out? Did you know that? It's a muscle. I actually did not know it rolled out. I had no idea. The heart. So you picture the heart, you go, oh, it's the size of a fist. It rolls out to like a stretch of like, I'd say a foot long. Wow. It's all wrapped around. Ugh. Yeah. Wow. How was the, was there like a sauce on the offal? No. Just grilled? It's like a delicacy. Yeah. And I don't think any Ikea crackers are going to...

I can't even put my mind off it. But I think chopped liver, like from Jewish delis, is more like a sort of pate consistency. It's like chopped and then you can sort of spread it on. Yeah, like a chicken liver pate. Sounds lovely. This deli, is it like a famous Jewish deli? Yeah. In London? In North London, yeah. Fantastic. Panzers. Yeah, I love that. Thanks. With a nice black coffee. Yeah.

really get it through me. So yours is the black coffee. Is that how you have your coffee? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Nice Americano with a sugar. Nice. I like hot coffee. Yeah. Can't drink cold coffee. So even if I have a sip and it's cold, it's done. John, you arrived here today drinking an iced latte. I literally saw you today walk into this building drinking an iced latte. I never get out.

never ever ever get it you're on you're on a send me down now could not be colder cubes of ice in it oh yeah i never do it i went in i went do you do ice coffee she went yeah so i'll have one

No, I never have it. I never have it. Mad that, I know that sounds mad. Yeah. I get it. The jury are pretty cool with this. No, they're not. No, they are. No, they're not. No, they're not. Because in my mind, you're in the court. You're going, I never have an iced coffee and you're holding a laugh. I just need to know where I am. You said, I just need to know where I am. I am in,

Good God!

Right. Well, do you know what? Fine. I'm in a restaurant and I'm also being judged by a jury. Yeah. There's a waiter, a genie, obviously, and there's a lawyer pacing. All right. Well, there we go. I do like black hot coffee. I don't know, once every two years, I'll have an iced coffee. Crackers from Ikea.

Ikea that everyone knows Ikea's that's the fun bit at the end yeah that's your reward that's your treat that's like you know parents evening let's get McDonald's you've done the Ikea let's get some hot dogs meatballs yeah good value as well Mappy nice restaurant love it love it come back bring people

Bring people. Miriam has added a soup course. Right. So after the liver and the coffee, there's now a soup. Yeah, the coffee was my addition, remember? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's just the drinks pairing. You won't pair a drink with the soup. Well, you will. Chicken soup with matzo balls and carrot, celery and onion. Goodness me. Paired with, Ed? Banana milkshake. Banana milkshake. Chicken.

I don't have to drink it, I suppose. Oh, yeah. Leave it there. The gorilla can have that. He won't know the difference. Yeah. He won't know. That's for the gorilla. Grabs the straw. Can't believe his luck. It's a decoy. Think it's on this one. It's a decoy shake. This one keeps going. Freezing. I tell you what. Not much girth to it, but it's a giver.

Bendier than normal. Shocking. No, it's shocking. It's shocking. I hope the windows... That's what a happy gorilla... I hope the window... I hope there's curtains or something. Foliage. There's some trees. No one can see it. Urgh.

Well, I mean, is there anything better than, you know, a fortifying bowl of lovely chicken soup with some of those balls? Lovely. Bucks of balls? Lovely. I don't know what they are really. Are they dumplings or something? Yeah, so much of dumplings. We definitely spoke about it with Miriam. I know that it's a very salty soup, but I only know that because of the film Love and Mercy. Have you seen that film? The Brian Wilson film? Love that. When you cook pasta, there's a rule, and I...

It's about how salty you get the... How much salt do you put in when you're making pasta? I just put like a big sprinkle, I guess. I do big sprinkle. But apparently it's got to be loads, hasn't it? It's like a tablespoon. Yeah, yeah. And there's a phrase, it has to be as salty as a certain sea, maybe the Atlantic. As a particular sea. Who knows that?

I don't know, I'm watching this thing and the guy goes, it's got to be a salty... I don't know what sea. I don't know what sea. What's the saltiest sea? The one where you float? Dead sea. Dead sea is the saltiest. So it can't be that. It has to be salty. Can't be that, okay. Because then all the pasta's floating up at the top, popping around. Floating, yeah. It's all on top of it. Yeah. So it got maybe Atlantic. Yeah.

Probably the Mediterranean, I guess, if it's Italy. Mediterranean. Ben's saying the Mediterranean. It'd be weird if it was a sea that didn't touch Italy. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that. A lot of salt in that soup. Yeah. So I'm going to have some nice, that cucumber water's still there. Again, the banana milkshake is whatever that banana milkshake can do, whatever you want.

I tell you what, I'm bringing people here. Yeah. Maybe a birthday. I'll have a birthday here. That's nice. Which birthday? Are you going to warn them about the gorilla? No, don't tell anyone about the gorilla. No. Greg James having an unpleasant surprise. He can't be seen. He's big time. Yeah, so he can't go there. He's top 10 BBC. Yeah. He can't be seen being surprised and noshed off by a gorilla. Yeah.

And it's not a gorilla before anyone, you know, writes in. Well, it's a mechanical thing. Yeah. Yeah.

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Your main course now, I'm going to give it to you. Do you want to read it out? Thank you. What have you got for your main course? Mummy's Fried Place with Olive Oil and Matzo Meal. Who's Mummy? My Mummy? This is what you have to decide, I guess, because obviously for Miriam...

This is her mummy. She didn't say John Kearns' mummy. So you would think that, yeah, like the main course is Miriam's mummy's fried place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you go to a restaurant and it says mummy's fried whatever, you don't think of my mummy. No, you're thinking the mummy of whoever owns the restaurant. But like for you, I mean, this is Dream Restaurant. You're here for, I mean, we could, I don't think it's out of the question that we can make it your mummy's fried place. I don't think, place, yeah.

Nah, she doesn't. Didn't really cook fish. No? Fish was, you went out for fish. Yeah, you went out for fish. You know, it stinks the kitchen. Yeah. Mummy's fried plate. I wonder how she, does she say how her mummy does it? Is it like, you know, what's the difference between fried place and Miriam Mugley's mummy? Easy for you to say. Olive oil. Yeah. A matzo meal.

Is that what was in the balls? Yeah, I think it's the same stuff that's in the balls. It's a little matzo. It's a little matzo. But, you know, Jewish food is delicious, man. Yeah. Well, it's just fish and matzo meal. Miriam Magalese's mummy's matzo meal. Lovely. How fast can you say that, John? Miriam Magalese. I mean, you want to go? Do you want to have a go? I'll try. Miriam Magalese's mummy's matzo meal. Ed? Miriam Magalese's mummy's matzo meal.

Miriam Margulies's Mummy's Matzo Meal. No. You said Margulies's. Both times you've fallen at Margulies. Yeah. I'll be honest, when you said it slowly the first time, you said Miriam Margulies. Yeah. What's wrong here? So it's Margulies, it's not Margulies. Margulies, okay, all right, okay. I think you need to maybe just... Miriam Margulies's Mummy's Matzo Meal. There you go. There we go, brilliant. Yeah, brilliant, sounds nice. Some chips? No, that's not on there, is it?

Tell you what, that's quite healthy, that. Yeah. Place is quite a delicate fish. John, just for the listener, John said it's quite a delicate fish and then looked at me as if he wasn't sure and he was just checking that he'd got it right. Yeah, the jury can see that. They can see you looking to the accused with guilty eyes after you've said something. It's quite flat, isn't it, the place? Huh? Flat, big flat fish. Yeah, flat. Yeah. That thing's flat. Flat fish.

Do you get any seasoned... Can I do anything with this, or is it just how... Would you want to know what you're having for your side, and then you can... Ed, what's it paired with, the main course, the fish? Oh, yeah. Oh, come on, give me something nice in there. Rosé. Oh. There you go. Dry Provence. Yeah? I've had that. Yeah? The paler, the better. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. When did you have that? I think I've been to Provence. Had it there. I think I've been there. Yeah? There's a chapel. Mm. The, uh...

You know Matisse, the artist Matisse, he built this chapel there and it was the last thing he did before he died. And he painted from his bed, like on the walls with a long paintbrush. With a really long one. It's like a Taskmaster task. Yeah. Matisse, he'd have been good at Taskmaster. Yeah, yeah. Picasso, Taskmaster. I think Matisse would have stood up to Greg tearing him apart though.

Like he might have been alright at the tasks, but then getting told he's rubbish in the studio. They'd storm off, artists. Comedians, you sit there and take it. Maybe they did a kid's one. I don't know. Happy to meet Mike. Matisse meeting Mike. You think Matisse would like to meet Mike Wozniak? Matisse doing the kid's one? Is this Matisse as a kid? Or as an adult? Inexplicably entered into the kid's taskmaster.

Well, the kids don't know who he is. Well, they know he's an adult, though. They'll be able to tell. They know he's an adult. He's bigger than them. Massive. He was massive by the end. Was he? Yeah. What's the, you know, is there like, I'm thinking about art now. Yeah. I'm thinking, you know, candlelight maybe. Nice placemats. Place like the fish. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

place like the fish flat fried fish I mean the thing is right let's be honest I don't know a mummy and it's a bit of fried fish and some matzo meal yeah yeah well yeah great would you like to know a mummy yeah

Yeah. Would that help? Miriam Mugley's his mummy. Would that help if you were introduced to her mummy? Yeah, I think, you know, the apple don't fall far from the tree. I think you'd be like, this all makes sense. You know, like, I met Sam Campbell's parents in Australia. Mm-hmm. Bang. It all makes, it just fits. Do you remember the first time we met Sam Campbell? Well, maybe you, right, okay. We didn't meet him at the same time, but the first time I... He was an arsehole to me. Yeah, so the first time I became aware of him... He knows I told him this. Yeah, yeah, he knows.

at the Melbourne Comedy Festival it was probably like I don't know 2013, 2014 something like that and we were in one of the festival bars in the evening and you came up to me looking grumpy and you went have you met this Sam Campbell and I went I know who you're talking about

And you were like, he's a comic over here. He's really over familiar. He's rude. And I was like, big for his boots. I thought, I don't think you said, but you were like, he's over familiar. He's rude. I was like, Oh, I don't know who he is. He's rude. We stood next to the bar.

And then like, literally like, within a minute of you saying that to me, Sam was like doing a lap of the pub. And he just, he didn't even stop walking. He went past. And he said something, he went over and went, Mr. Kearns? And he was like, that's fucking, that's the guy. He just kind of, he just looped around and carried on going. Yeah. And I was like. He's a wind-up merchant. Yeah, that's what you said. He keeps winding me up. He's a wind-up merchant. He's a wind-up merchant. You were like, he's winding me up. All festival. He keeps winding me up.

Yeah, he'd say stuff like, the great John Kearse. Yeah, that was it. And I'd be like, I don't know you. Yeah. He probably meant that, though. Not the way he said it. He's winding me up. Over-familiarity. Yeah. When you don't know someone. Is that getting in your nerves? What the hell's going on? Yeah. Or someone being a bit like...

I love having the piss taken out of me, but I've got to know where that's coming from. Yeah. You've got to know the intention. Yeah. And if I know someone and like them, you can say anything to me because I'd find it funny. If I don't know who you are and you're doing that, I put the drawbridge up. Yeah. And then I look through the little hole going, what's going on out there? Who's that? And then I go back into the castle, chat to my friends, come have a look, look through there. Who's that?

Who's that Australian guy on the other side of the moat? Just doing weird dances and shit. This castle analogy, where's the drawbridge? You've got to let things go, man. Because I'm in a forest. Now you're going to start saying... It's an expression. It's an expression. I'm not defending you. I don't want to argue in front of the lawyers about this. Or the gorilla. Or the gorilla. You're spinning a lot of plates at this point. Because now you're in a castle with a drawbridge. I'm not in a castle...

Not in a castle. Well, you are. Not in a castle. You just said you're looking at a little man dancing on the other side of the moat. So you're pulling up the drawbridge. I'm dancing on the other side of the moat because I brought the drawbridge up. The metaphor being that I don't know him, so I'm not letting him in. Now I let him in. I know who he is. I like the guy. So he's in the castle now. He's in the castle now. He still winds me up. He goes to me, creator of worlds. He keeps introducing me like that. And again, I'm like, what the fuck's his game? He means it.

Yeah, but he's got a smile. He's got a thing. Yeah, well, he knows it's funny to say it, but he does mean it as well. But it's like he's going over your head to the audience. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, no, you do it to me. You do it to my face. I'm kicking him out of the castle. He's gone. He doesn't need my castle. He's got his own castle.

He's got his own castle. It didn't last long. He's in another castle now. He's got his own castle. Sam didn't speak to me for ages and then I found out he'd been texting James saying he was in the same room as me. Yes. This is... He plays games. He plays games. He was texting me saying I can't believe I'm in a room with Ed Gamble. Yeah, he plays games. Yeah. He plays games and he's...

And he laughs about it, pissing himself laughing. This guy always laughing. Point is, I met his dad and I went, Apple don't fall far from the tree. Yeah. I met your parents. Yeah. Don't think I've met...

I don't think I've met anyone. I don't think so. Have you met Ed's... I don't know if you would think Apple falls far from the tree with it. No, I didn't think that with you, actually. Maybe a little bit. Yeah. Really? I didn't think that with you, really. No, when you get to know him. Oh, really? Who? My dad. Both. Perfect mix. When you're young, you think it's one, though. Yeah, when you're younger, you think... I went through different phases of thinking I was more like my dad, more like my mum. Same. But now I can...

Both their voices are in my head all the time. Same. Especially since having a kid. When I'm 15, I'm like, yeah, I'm a dad. And now I'm like my mum. And now it's that realisation as you get older that you're that mix. And there is getting away from that. But also you feel very lucky. It's a good mix. I'm not moaning about it. But yeah, that's something you don't really...

it's quite it's on the surface in your 20s or when you're a teenager you're like yeah i'm like my dad because he likes music and i like music he can't stop buying cds he has to hide them in the car because you know my mom my mom won't let him in the house with cds anymore you know i'm like yeah i buy cd all that stuff classic and now now i'm an old now i'm older i'm like yeah my mom i'm like i'm like my mom because you don't like cds in the house yeah

I like CDs in the house, but nothing to play them on anymore. He used to always buy music. Yeah. I'd hide them in the car. Yeah. And then he'd smuggle them in. He'd make me smuggle them in. I was like a mule. He'd go, just bring them in. Up your T-shirt. The reason why I talk about parents is Miriam Margulies' mummy's fried place. I've never met Miriam. I've never met Miriam's mummy. But I'm sure that's going to be lovely. Fried flat place with olive oil. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

And a side dish of roast potatoes, small frozen peas, braised celery and braised carrots. Fantastic. Yeah, happy with that. Absolutely gorgeous. Yeah. It's already, sounds a bit dry. Well, maybe a drink pairing with it to... To drink the gravy? Good.

Go on, I'll give you that. Pint the gravy. Roast potatoes. Beautiful. How do you make your roasts? Pretty classic, I'd say. Parboil. Parboil. Parboil the potatoes. Shake them round. Some semolena. Ruffle up, ruffle up. Don't do any of that. Some what? Oh, no, no, no, no, don't. No? Well, I don't know how to say the word. He's on me. I'm on him because he said semolena. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is it? Well, no, so you have another go.

I'm doubling down. Salmonella. Salmonella. Salmonella. You don't want that. You don't want salmonella. Salmonella. That's Sam Campbell's nickname. Yeah. That's what Nigella does. She puts the salmonella in it. Yeah, I'd go maybe a bit of flour and then very, very hot fat. Put it into the hot fat. Love that. Cover it with the hot fat into the oven. Brilliant. Love that. I'll have them braised celery.

It's the second time celery's come up. I've never cooked celery. You ever had cooked celery? Celery goes into the base of a lot of stuff. So you will have had cooked celery. I've had a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've actually done it myself many times. Yeah, celery, onion, carrot into the base of like a stew. Yeah, I do that most weeks. Yeah.

Braised. Never braised it, though. Never. I'm not going to start braising it. Well, that's delicious. I mean, look at that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty basic, isn't it? It's pretty basic, but I thought you would like that. It's very comforting, though, isn't it? It's very homey. I know that you like a roast and you like talking to people about how they do a roast. I was pretty sure you would ask Ed how he did his roast potatoes because you love knowing that about people. Well, everyone has their own way. Yeah, exactly. Well, how do you do it? What's the James Acaster roast potato? Parboil them. Yeah. Yeah.

put them on the tray with loads of olive oil and salt and pepper. That's it. I forgot salt and pepper. That's it. Then squash them, squash them all into that, so push down on them with the back of a spatula, squash them all so they break a little bit, not fully, break a little bit, and then put them in the oven, roast the hell out of them, you get those nice little crispy bits where you've smashed them. Put,

Put your herbs in 20 minutes before the end. Don't put them in at the beginning. Good tip. Rub the herbs with olive oil so they don't burn. I love it. What I like about this menu is you do feel like I'm in Miriam's brain. I'm in her house. Another place. Like this is no, no, no. Yeah. Oh, man. No, no, no. So is the castle inside the brain? No.

So your castle is in Miriam's brain. Because I can picture it that you're in the castle with the drawbridge. You can look out of it and see people dancing on the other side of the moat. And then inside the castle... There's a gorilla up the turret. Yeah, inside the castle there's like trees and stuff and there's a gorilla up the turret. And then you're sitting on the stand having your meal. And there's a jury in there. So I can picture it all. So there's a Bible as well? There's a Bible there. You've got to swear on the Bible. Yeah. Does that mean anything to you?

The Bible? Yeah. Like, if you're swearing on the Bible, are you thinking this is serious stuff? Are you thinking, I don't believe in that anyway? I don't care. Are you asking me, if I swear on a Bible, am I taking that seriously? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do they have another option now? They must do. Like the Da Vinci Code or something? If that's your book of choice. That's your favourite book. Book of choice? It's your choice. You could be like, Nigel Slater's Real Food. Yeah. What book means the most to you? Yeah. Yeah.

what would be your book maybe that Japanese book In the Shadows swear on that I've learned a lot from that well you've learned three things three things that's a lot what's Kermode's rule about comedy films if he laughs three times it's a comedy film Kermode yeah

I think that's anyone who doesn't know you, which by now everyone knows you who's listening to this podcast by the time they got to this point in the episode. But like, if people didn't know John Kearns, I would say he's the kind of guy who takes Mark Kermode's rules for life very seriously. And will quote the people. When you hear someone give a rule, it's fun and it's nice. You go, well, is that a rule I want to live by? Yeah. Because I'm always, I think, looking for rules. Yeah.

I'm always looking for things to hang the coat on, hang the hat on. Yeah. Yeah. Cause otherwise you're just scrambling around in life. So if someone goes, if I love three times in a film, it's comedy. I'll go, Hmm. Well, okay. How often do I laugh at comedy films? Not a lot, but there's like side films and stuff where there's three laughs in. Does that make it a comedy film?

No. Also... That's the problem with comedy these days. You don't know what's comedy anymore. Well, Mark Kermode does. If he laughs three times. Do you think Mark Kermode, when he's laughed twice at a film, gets in his head because

Because then he's like, uh-oh, am I going to laugh a third time? That third one's got to be difficult because now he's thinking, if I laugh again, it's a comedy. If I don't, it's not. And now he's overanalyzing it because the first two laughs might have come easily. He's been like, oh, that's funny. He doesn't get on with his son and his son had to go at him and that's funny that Mini-Me humped the laser. And then after that, is he like, when am I going to laugh? Austin Powers? Austin Powers 2, Spike Shumpert. Yeah.

Yeah, God. You're laughing at the title for that film. Yeah, so that's one. Holy moly. You're laughing at the title immediately. You've laughed before you've gone in. It's by Shagmeet. Laugh. I'm laughing at the name. Yeah. I saw that film with my nan. She fell asleep in the trailer.

I just watched it. Just you? Just me. Well, my nan was there. Yeah, but she's asleep. Yeah. She's still there. You had a good time? Loved it. Funny film. I'd run away from home. Sorry? I'd run away from home. I was sick of it. What? I don't know. I don't know how old I was, but I was sick of it.

So I went, right, I'm off. And then I got to my nan's. Hang on, you ran away from home and went straight to your nan's house? Yeah. I'm not at home, am I? I've run away from home. Yeah, but to your nan's house, which is basically your house. I think she's going to basically tell them where you are. Anyway, she calls my mum. Yeah. She went, he's here. Yeah, of course. And I was, I remember being at the top of the stairs looking down, sick of it.

Didn't your nan live in Ireland? That's pretty impressive. No, they're from Ireland. She's in Tooting. I thought you'd run away to Ireland. And I'm looking down the bottom of the stairs like, yeah, I'm here, what are you going to do about it? And I can just see my nan talking to my mum. She's like, okay, okay. Now I'm thinking they're going to collect me. Yeah. My mum clearly went, he can stay there. So I was there for three days. I'm like, this is backfiring. How old were you? Well, a spy who shagged me. I went to see...

Well, that was a 12, and I'm probably feeling a bit cheeky seeing that, so maybe I'm 11?

98, 99. So you ran away from home. You went straight to your dad. I ran away from home and I'm thinking, yeah, my parents are going to be like, where is he? Like, oh, we've got to get him back, our beautiful son. Yeah. My dad crosses me up. She says, he's here. He's here. And my mum clearly went, fuck him. Have him. Yeah. And I remember going, hey, that's not... Totally called you bluff, wasn't it? Oh, they called me bluff. But then it worked.

My nan went, do you want to go to cinema? Went to Wimbledon, went to cinema. So your nan said to you, do you want to go and see Spy Who Shagged Me? I just, I remember thinking, I want to, she didn't say that. I said that. You said that. Did you say, I want to go and see Austin Powers' Spy Who Shagged Me? Well, you know, younger listeners, they'll think it's crazy, but you've got the local paper out. You've got the listings in there. It's the only way of finding, you're picking up, calling the audience. You're calling the cinema, man. Yeah, yeah.

And we went there. Remember? Yeah. Great movie. Funny movie. She fell asleep. You watched it. Yeah. Probably, you know, I wear a wig. I wear fake teeth on stage. Maybe formative. I don't know. Yeah. Have you seen the film? Oh, fuck. Yeah. German film. About four hours long. Das Boot. It's not Das Boot. Oh,

Tony Erdman. Tony Erdman. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. Is it that long? It's a long film, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. Beautiful film. Yeah, yeah. About a guy who wears a wig, false teeth. You can't be serious with people. He's always got to be joking. Yeah, and his daughter doesn't like that. Yeah, it affects his relationship with his daughter. And beautiful moment at the end where she finally embraces it. Yeah. She puts on the fake teeth and the wig. Yeah. And...

She's finally kind of being silly with her dad and he's like, oh, fantastic. And he runs back into the house to get a camera to kind of capture this moment. The film camera stays on her, just stays on her face for about a minute. And within that minute, you see her become self-conscious again. The silliness is gone and she slowly takes it off.

and then you don't see him come back. The idea of being silliness, being light, being funny is just so, it can just go in a second. The salad, she added a salad course to this as well. Just tell me you're going to edit it out.

Just tell me you're going to edit it. No, that's staying in. You started again like you were going to edit it out. No, no, I just thought there was nothing to add to that. It's beautiful. We don't have to punch through everything that you do. We can just let you talk about silliness in a passionate way. Green salad.

yeah green salad a green salad for you remain potatoes no endive endive endive endive rocket with a french dressing on the side yeah brilliant well no go on be honest be honest i don't want it with my potatoes maybe nice with a bit of fish which you got you haven't got mummy's fried place oh i'm not i'm not eating the salad

I'm just going to leave it. Just, yeah. I admire your honesty with that. You're not going to eat that. It's not. I mean, what? I like salad. Yeah. And a nice French dressing. I make my own French dressing. Yeah? Talk us through it. White wine vinegar, Dijon mustard, salt, pepper, lemon. I don't know if that's French, but that's what I do. Put it in a jam jar, shake it up. Do you pretend to be a cocktail waiter when you're doing that? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't want it, though. It's hot food, the hot-cold thing going on. Yeah, you don't like hot-cold. Who does? Not me. I don't know. Somebody who arrived today drinking an iced coffee might...

Might enjoy playing with temperatures, I don't know. What about in a dessert, though? What about... Yeah, that's nice and azalea, brownie ice cream. Lovely. Love that. Love that. I'm a contrarian. You don't want cold salad with a roast potato, though. I kind of agree, because it, like, wilts the salad. So every now and again, it's like, I'm thinking of, like, all the different settings, and just imagining someone on the witness stand saying the phrase, I'm a contrarian. LAUGHTER

Again, if I'm in the jury, I'm looking at the guy going, well, you know, he's telling me that. It's worse if you're watching someone and you lean over to the next person and you go, I think this guy's a contrarian. Whereas if I said, I think this guy's a contrarian. And then I look up at the stand and the guy goes, I'm a contrarian. I'd be like,

Hey, he's telling me. Like Derren Brown would do. Yeah. Why is he doing that? Derren Brown tells the audience what he's doing. Yeah, he said. So then they trust him more. Well, that's the thing about magic. Yeah. It's the most honest art form because they tell you. You know it's a trick. The first thing you are told is I am going to trick you. Yeah. This is bollocks. Nothing is real. Welcome to the show. You should open your shows like that.

I'm going to trick you. This is all bollocks. It's all a trick. Welcome to the show. Curtain up. And then curtain up. Then curtain up. So what you're saying, you're saying offstage. It's a voiceover. Offstage mic. Hang on, curtain up. No, curtain down. You're behind the curtain. Oh, yeah. The start of the show. Lovely stuff. Maybe shoes. Just the shoes. Smoke. Then I appear. In the shoes. Yeah, I walk on wearing shoes and throw them.

Throw the shoes away. Don't know who left them there. Off you go. That's a funny beginning, isn't it? It's a funny beginning. That's funny. You walk into the theatre, blackout. Yeah. Voice over. It's all a trick. This is all bollocks. This is all bollocks. I'd watch this. It's got a pack of lies. Okay. Welcome to the show. Curtain up, pair of shoes. Smoke. I walk on, wearing shoes.

Throw the shoes in the audience. Don't know who left them there. Great.

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Virgin Mary, no ice, plenty of Worcester sauce, slice of lemon, more celery. We've got celery again. Virgin Mary, so no booze in there. No booze in there. How do you feel about that? Great. No ice. No ice. Plenty of Worcester sauce, slice of lemon, celery. Celery again. I don't really want to take the lemon out.

Worcester sauce, great. Plenty. Yeah, I love that. Do you prefer Virgin Mary or Bloody Mary, in all honesty? Do you know what? I probably only had it twice in my life. It was these people that are like hungover going, let's get the Bloody Marys down. I've got shit to do, sorry.

Does Miriam drink? Not sure. I mean, she didn't want any booze on this menu. It sounds like she doesn't. I mean, I'm on antibiotics at the moment. Yeah. I can't drink till next Sunday. So it sounds good. I went to the dentist last week. I've been to the dentist with you. I said, thank you, dentist. Do you know that when you say, thank you, doctor? I said, thank you, dentist. It did sound right. You called him dentist. I went, thank you, dentist. Yeah. They are doctors, though, you know. Eh? Yeah, they are doctors. They are doctors. Yeah.

I thought they were dentists. Their title is... No, they're dentists. No, their title is doctor. I'm calling them dentists. You don't go to the dentist to call the dentist a doctor. We've got good news for you, though, John. The dessert. I've just realised. Ben's laughing. Ed's laughing.

James composed with the killer punch. This is good news. This is good news. Why is he laughing? Because it's perfect. It's a coincidence. Let me think. Why is it perfect? Why would Ed laugh like that? I was laughing out of happiness. Oh, okay. It wasn't a cruel laugh. It's either ice cream or something to do with the gorilla. Coffee and dark chocolate ice cream.

From Narduli. Something that's in Clapham, I think we talked about. Ah, I live near Clapham. What is it, an ice cream shop? Yeah. Maybe Marley says it's the best ice cream. She gets a scoop of the coffee, scoop of the dark chocolate. That's her favourite dessert in the world. Clapham seems like it's got some nice food places. Oh yeah, man. Who's the chap? Roo?

The chef, he just closed... Michelle Rue Jr.? Everything on top jaw, he said Clapham. And I wrote them down on a bit of paper. I was like, I live near there, I need to do all that. Does he live near Clapham? I guess so, if that's what he was picking. A lot of chefs live in Wandsworth area. Yeah. Ramsay? Does he? Yeah.

Big house. You'd love Ramsey. He's one of the kind of people I think you would love to meet. Yeah. Like, you would love to meet Gordon Ramsey. I would, yeah. There's certain figures in pop culture. Kermode is a perfect example as well. Like, certain people who just seem like they're staples now. They're part of the furniture. They've been there for a long time. I like meeting the furniture. And you're like, there they are. Yeah, I like meeting the furniture. Mark Kermode, Gordon Ramsey. Because the thing with Ramsey, right? Yeah. He's...

we all know him as like, you know, just almost like a TV personality. He's on the Mount Rushmore. But it's how good he is at the, like everything else is noise. Yeah. And like everyone knows him, maybe like everyone knew him from the telly or like just the Hell's Kitchen or that. And know him now, he sells pans. He'll flog you anything. But 90s, he worked his ass off and he was the best.

And I like that. I like when, you know, like when you like a musician and you love an album and then the other albums are shite. Yes. But you don't care because you're like, well, they did that. Yeah. Like, I like Rufus Wainwright. Uh-huh. And, you know, the last few albums, whatever, not for me. But because he did what he did, early 2000s poses, he could do anything. It's that freedom of like, he could do anything. I'm up for it. But you've got to defend them because they gave you that moment.

And like, if you go on YouTube and watch the, uh, there's a documentary about Marco Pierre White and Ramsey cause they work together. It's fantastic. Keith Floyd turns up, Marco Pierre White's hero. He makes him lamb chops and mash. They just sit there in silence eating it. And you know, that's good. Lamb chops and mash. Fantastic. Yeah. I'd love to meet Ramsey. I mean, I think he'd hate me. I think he'd just be like, what's your deal?

He'd slap me about a bit. He'd point at something I'm wearing and he'd go, he'd go.

But there you go. Ice cream. You've got your chocolate ice cream. We're not sold out. It's not sold out. It's not closed. You've got it. A coffee vibe? What was that? A coffee ice cream and a dark chocolate ice cream. Brilliant. Happy with that. It's a really nice meal. You love iced coffee, so... This is like a meal that, you know, your favourite back school, your mates, like you went, I can't wait to go round to their house. Yeah. Because, you know, matzo meal, flatfish, liver and coffee. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, the more I say it, the more I'm like, you know, you can give or take some of this. Now, what I've noticed has happened as well is that normally when we do these episodes, the normal episodes, we ask the guests what they're going to eat and we don't know what they're going to eat. And as they're saying their courses, Benito will write it down on his notepad. And then at the end, he will hand it to me so that I can read them their menu back and see how they feel about it. Now, obviously, with this one, I've got Miriam's menu written down in front of me.

but I've noticed out the corner of my eye that Ben has still been writing the menu down as we go along and is literally teed up. He's about to hand it to me so I can read you your menu back, even though I have read you the menu throughout the whole episode. And you've got it in front of you. He's already in the rhythm of what it used to be like. We added drinks to it, so he wants me to say that as well, but I don't think... I don't think we need to read the menu back. But I love that... Do you want me to read the menu? Yeah. Your honour. Yeah. Yeah.

Members of the jury, uh, Gorilla, James Ed, Sam Campbell, Castle, Castle. Uh, well, fantastic menu. Uh, Miriam Muggles is tasting menu. I had water with, uh, some still cucumber. Uh, no, no, no,

That's the way I want my cucumber. If you get a fizzy one. I like my water still. I like my cucumber like I like my water still.

I don't trust a moving cucumber. Imagine a cucumber just flew across the room now. Yeah, yeah. It's a snake. You wouldn't put that in your drink? No. Well, you saw a cucumber in the pool, you think someone's drunk a cucumber. That's why cats are scared of cucumbers. Are they? Because they think they're snakes. Yeah. What's the Ken Dodd joke about a cucumber? Go on. What a lovely day for sticking a cucumber through the vicar's letterbox and saying, Vicar, the Martians have landed.

Frank Skinner's favourite joke. I mean, I'm told by Ken Dodd. Still with cucumber, sliced presumably. Yeah. Some soda bread, brown bread, chopped liver with panzas, from panzas, with IKEA round crisp bread. Chicken soup with matzo balls and carrots, celery and onion. Mummy's fried place with olive oil and matzo meal. You got coffee with the liver. Coffee. Banana milkshake with a soup. Banana milkshake!

Mummy's Fried Place, olive oil, matzo meal, roast potatoes, small frozen peas. Specifying that they're small. And frozen. Small. They're all the same size, aren't they? Braised celery, braised carrots. Pineapple gravy. Green salad, fuck that. Virgin Mary, no ice. I'm having ice. You can give me ice. Coffee and dark chocolate ice cream from Narduli. Yeah.

Happy with that, John? I'm coming again. That's absolutely beautiful. It's a really genuinely beautiful meal. I'm happy and I'm going to bring people back. Well, thank you very much for coming back to the Dream Restaurant. And after you've paid the bill, there's a little rustling in the trees above you. Oh, yeah. It's gorilla time. I hope you left a tip. You're about to. Yeah. I mean, someone had to say it. Taking a prison. Thanks, John. Bye.

Well, there we are, James. I think that actually, that's got legs. That's got legs. That was good. Yeah, that was fun. I mean, look, we're saying that now, you know, it could be that the off-menu Twitter account is just inundated with tweets being like, never ever do that again. I don't like change. I don't think they will because it was nice chatting to John. Look, the format is even looser than it normally is. Yeah.

It's an excuse to chat to these people again. It's nice to hear from John again, learn even more about him and his life and where his life is now. Yeah. And also just be reminded of Miriam's menu. Yes, exactly. And how tasty that was. Look, the hardcore are going to love it. Yeah, the hardcore are going to love it. And there are going to be some people who that's the first episode they've ever listened to. Crazy. And they'll be like, oh, cool, I get it. Yeah. It's a podcast where they say to a guest...

Here's a meal that another celebrity likes. Would you like to eat that? Well, seems cool to me. Yeah. Look, there's plenty of people that we want to get on again. So if you have any requests for people that you'd like to hear again, maybe do this format. Get in contact with Benito and he'll send you a signed chopping board. He will. And also make sure you mention what guest menu you would like them to eat. Yes, exactly.

Don't forget John's special The Varnishing Days is available on Sky. Thank you very much for listening to this new... It was like a pilot, wasn't it, James? Yes, it was a pilot. And fingers crossed we get a full series commission. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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