Complacency Lingers In The S&P 500
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On the Tape.

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Welcome to the Risk Reversal Podcast. I'm Dan Nathan, joined by Guy Adami. Guy, good morning.

Good morning to you. Good morning to everyone on this somewhat dreary Monday, but yet another important week here in the markets and at the risk reversal offices, I guess, for lack of a better word.

Yeah, there you go. We do have a full slate of content this week. WWDC, that is Apple's developers. I love that. Can I tell you something? That's my favorite. No, it is. It really is. So I'm going to have Gene Munster of Deepwater Asset Management breaking down everything that he saw there this afternoon, and that will drop tomorrow morning. I also have Rishi Jularia from RBC KCB.

Capital. He is the software analyst over there. We're going to break down some of the names. I know Oracle reports this week, as does Adobe. We're going to look back at some of the other SaaS names. So that is going to drop on Wednesday. And then we have Imran Khan. He is the portfolio manager of Proem Asset Management. He is a prolific tech investor, former COO of Snap.

That's going to drop on Friday. Guy, we still have, yeah, we got a lot going on there. Danny Moses on the On The Tape podcast as Dennis DeBuscher. I know you've been with some of those conversations over the last couple of years. So he's going to give us the 411 of what's going on in DC. But

Today in London, it's the U.S. meeting with the Chinese counterparts on trade. We have Mike Wilson talking a little bit about what's priced in to the markets right here as it relates to an economic slowdown. We have Senate Republicans who have been in

boldened, I think, by that back and forth between Trump and Musk that started about the tax bill. So, I mean, I think the two main things, Guy, if you want to start here, and we've been talking about this a little bit, a lot of folks thought that the tax bill

was kind of done and dusted. But the longer that the trade war has played out, I think a lot of folks would be like, listen, these are two sides of the same coin, at least as far as the agenda is concerned. And both seem to be mired a little bit here. So

That's one of the main points I think folks like you and me would say, if you can't get these things sorted out in the near term, you might see U.S. growth go into the shitter. And, you know, whoa, whoa. But relative to what we heard out of the OECD, they were bringing down their global growth forecast for 2025. But ours were going lower than that of the rest of the globe.

All right. There are a lot of sayings that market participants and pundits use that make me want to scream. One of them is the market hates uncertainty. That's sort of thrown out there all the time. And my retort typically is there really never is any degree of certainty. It's just the level of uncertainty that matters. And I think you bring up a good point because

This tax thing, I think, throws a bit of a monkey wrench into everything. Now, we had Gary Cohn on Fast Money at the live event on Thursday evening, and he was somewhat, if not pretty confident that by whatever date that needs, the X date he called it, this thing is going to get done. And he's probably right. But I think we've thrown something in the mix here that was seemingly unthinkable.

a bit of a slam dunk that's not as much of one now, and it comes in the form of this whole tax thing. So throw that in the mix. And then throw some other things in the mix. I mean, this U.S.-China meeting, I think, is important. And we'll see what the takeaway is. I'm sure we will paint it through somewhat rose-colored glasses. We'll see what the Chinese say. But that's out there as well. And then obviously, there's some economic data this week that I think could be somewhat market-moving. And on top of all that, Dan,

Growth, no growth, robust growth, slowing growth. You're still talking about a market now at $6,000 in the S&P that yet again has gotten itself a little bit expensive on a myriad of different valuations. So, yeah, I think this is a really important week. Yeah, no doubt. Especially, you know, Friday, it was interesting that the S&P closed exactly at $6,000. We know that. It's sorely higher.

yeah 61.50 or so was the prior high from february so there was a lot of talk over the weekend about you know we are probably going to retest that get through it what are the conditions in which that happens you know i want to go back to this kind of trade you know today obviously important and you just said they're going to paint it one way or another as you know somewhat constructive um that's what we kind of thought was going to happen in geneva you know they were kind of taking a win

And when I think about this, I think about how an administration, you have a certain amount of, let's say, political capital. You talk about the honeymoon period that a new administration is going to have, not just with their own party, but also folks on the opposite side of the aisle who are probably going to have to give in to one legislative win. Right. And when you think about what's happened here, it's.

basically the exact opposite of what happened in the first administration. They came in and talking about a pro-growth agenda. They came in talking about lower taxes. They came in talking about being tougher on our adversaries about trade. But what they did was they went after the tax. Gary Cohn, who you just mentioned, they got

a consensus about this bill. Now, Republicans obviously were a lot more for it, despite some of the sort of spending that did not get cut, right? Democrats were very much against it. But when they pushed that through, they got their first legislative win. That gave the economy a bit of a tailwind. It gave the stock market a bit of a tailwind. And then they were able to kind of work into the trade thing.

And remember Trump used to say that trade wars are smart and easy to win or something like that, but that wasn't the case, and it's not gonna be the case this time. So if you have folks going out there suggesting that this is gonna be easy to do and it's also gonna be easy to fight your own party because their own party is the problem with tax right now, in my opinion, it doesn't matter, and Gary Cohn said this,

the way that they can get this bill through reconciliation, they just can't lose any Republicans. And that seems to be where it is. And sooner or later, Guy, that has got a way on growth expectations and it's got a way on a market that is very complacent. And when you talk about uncertainty, what I would say about that is like, okay, markets hate that. That's the expression that you hate. But to me, it really has to do with complacency.

It has to do with conviction rather than, you know what I mean, being able to put your finger on what the likely outcomes are. Does that make some sense? Yeah, I agree with that. Listen, you know, we've talked about this, but it's important to mention again, that word you just used, complacency, is a word that Jamie Dimons used a number of times, most recently sort of a week and a half, whatever that Friday prior to this past Friday was. I mean, he said that a number of times and

I think he's right to bring it up. And in complacency around all different things, you know, the fact that everybody seems to think it's a fait accompli for you French majors out there, that these things shouldn't get done, that there's going to be a U.S.-China trade deal sort of hammered out, that all these geopolitical unrest will sort of

figure itself out. I mean, that's a lot to ask for. But again, it's a lot to ask for in the best of circumstances. But it's also a lot to ask for through the lens of the market when you're talking about a market that, again, has gotten itself as expensive as it has. And there are a number of things that point to the economy slowing down, regardless of what you may hear.

And the question I think people have to ask themselves is, is this a reasonable valuation for a slowdown in the U.S. economy? And I would push back and say, no, it's anything but reasonable. And I think a lot of people feel that way. Now, in the throes of early April, we got ourselves to probably the biggest oversold condition that we've seen. But, you know, within two months now, and that's June 9th, I think we're looking at

As quickly as we got ourselves to an oversold condition, that's how quickly we've gotten ourselves to an overbought condition. Yeah.

Yeah. And I guess part of it maybe is going to be quarter end. You know, you think about it, you know, the S&P is up 2% on the year right now. And, you know, we were probably at our highs up four and a half percent or something like that. So if you think about all that's happened between February 19th and where we are right here, you can say no harm, no foul. You know what I mean? But I think coming into this year because of valuations, which you just mentioned, and equity risk premium and a whole host of other things,

A lot of strategists were not suggesting there was going to be massive upside after two consecutive 25 percent gains in the S&P 500. Right. I think a lot of the you know, the targets with an S&P that was just below 6000 coming into the year were like 6500 or something like that. So mid to high single digits is what, you know, folks had hoped for and then they were

all chasing their tails as soon as they were trying to figure out, you know, just how difficult it was going to be for U.S. companies to kind of manage around, you know, these sorts of tariffs. Now, you know, I'll just say this is that every piece of data, you know, there are very few companies coming out of Q1 earnings guy that felt like they had their arms around what a tariff, you know, like what

the baseline tariffs look like and what the reciprocal tariffs look like. And I think they're still seeing some pairing on the hiring front, despite the fact that market participants not so unhappy about that May jobs report, you know, and the like. So I guess, you know, when I think about this is like if you want to throw caution to the wind right here and you want to make the bet,

that there are not going to be like some push outs and these really important, you know what I mean? Like negotiations, whether it's here on the tax front or abroad on the trade front, I guess I,

I just feel like this trade thing is going to linger a lot longer than folks who are buying the S&P at 6,000 feel it's going to. Yeah, I think linger is the right word. By the way, a great song by the Granberries for you Irish music fans out there. But yeah, I do think. And no, listen, people will then say, well, wait a second, guy. The market has a discounting mechanism, and they understand that as well, and they're looking through this.

And they're saying, you know what, maybe it'll linger a little bit longer, but it's going to get hammered out. You know, we don't want to be behind that. We want to be in front of it. I get it. You know, I understand all the things that people will say in response to that.

But my then response to those responses are that's fine. But at a certain point, everything had sort of been discounted in. I mean, so much good news, in my opinion, at 6,000 in the S&P has been built in that you really have to sort of stick the landing on a number of different fronts. And, you know, when I say number of different fronts,

i mean it's at least a four or five sided different coin you're trying to sort of deal with right now and i don't think that all those things are going to land the way the market wants them to land yeah and this goes back to you know some of the commentary we heard you know late april into early may you know from paul tudor jones and ray dalio and steve cohen and um you know i'm missing a few here um you know where there's no regrets in when we had him on our podcast i mean there are a myriad of people that have been saying

not the same thing, but saying very similar things. And their concerns, I think, are warranted. And these are not people, you know, again, people say they're talking about, yeah, they probably are. You want them to, number one. People will say, well, they have the right to change their mind. Yes, they absolutely do. But there's been a common thread through all this. And it's the word you started the show with, complacency, but it's other things as well. And

People like Steve Cohen, you know, rarely, if ever, you know, make comments like they made. Paul Tudor Jones, you know, who will talk a couple times a year, you know, maybe he speaks in platitudes, but you have to take into consideration what he's saying. Novogratz on our podcast.

Jamie Dimon, you mentioned Stan Drunken Miller. There are a lot of people that have been saying the same thing, that have been waving the same flags and bringing up their same concerns. And their voices are sort of being tamped down because you've had an S&P that's rallied 1,200 S&P points since early April.

Yeah, and I wonder if folks like us who know those names, we've been in the markets for decades and we've always kind of, you don't want to cross them. You don't want to be on the other side of their trades. Now, the problem I have right here, Guy, is that that was some thoughts about retesting those lows. I think all of them were in that camp. I want to say it was like a half a dozen or so. And you just said they reserved the right to change their minds. I'd love to hear that.

where they are right now. And, you know, maybe retail investors don't care. And this kind of goes back to the sort of meme stock sort of situation from a few years ago. If anything, they think that they're as smart as some of those folks that, you know, have been doing it for decades and made billions of dollars and all the power to them, you know. So for whatever that's worth, Mike Wilson,

head strategist, friend of the pod over at Morgan Stanley. He had a note out this morning suggesting, I think this is kind of reiterating something he said on our pod a couple weeks ago. He's saying we've already priced in a slowdown in growth while macro data and earnings results may look softer in the summer months as a result of continuous tariff uncertainty and payback and demand post the pre-tariff period.

Pull forward, we believe the market has already priced this type of moderate slowdown in growth. Thoughts on that? It seems like there were a lot of strategists who, like I said, came into the year, they were mildly optimistic. I don't think anyone expected wild sort of returns like we had over the prior two years.

but they all chased their tails lower in April, right? And now they're all kind of coming back a little bit. I don't think Mike got particularly bearish. You know, I don't think a lot of strategists had so much time to get really bearish because everything happened from April 2nd, crescendoed into April 7th. April 9th was the kind of beginning of the kind of march back towards 6,000. So, you know, that V reversal was really quick, but at this point,

you know, the game, you kind of start having to think, okay, what could go wrong? Not what could go right.

I think so. You know, I think you have to you always have to be thinking about these things in terms of when markets are troughing, you know, what can go right here? What am I missing? What am I not seeing? When markets are sort of having this sort of parabolic move to the upside that we've seen, you have to say to yourself, OK, what is the market price? All the good news in and what can go wrong? You have to constantly be challenging yourself. I think.

That's something that we attempt to do. And now at the other side of this, you know, April low, I think we're saying, OK, what can go wrong here? I will tell you, and I think I know you feel this way, you know, in early April or so, we were pretty bearish into April. I think we remain bearish. And then as the S&P 500 traded down to that upward trend line that's been in place for the last decade,

I want to say five and a half or six years, we collectively said that you probably don't want to be pushing to the downside here. We're going to see a bounce. Now, I didn't think the bounce would be as robust as it is, but here we are. So now what is this bounce? What is it pricing in?

Why is the market, again, paying a premium? What are the other metrics out there that you should be concerned about? And they are many. Now, there'll be people that say, we hear what Jamie Dimon and all these people you just mentioned are saying, we are nimble enough to stay ahead of them. When we see or sniff out a turn, we'll be able to pivot. And maybe that's true. I mean, maybe that's the level we are. And people want to sort of wait until the event happens before they sort of flip the switch. But

events are out there dan i just don't think the market wants to recognize them right now

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One market that is not recognized is the options market. And CeCe Lagader had this in our newsletter that came out last night previewing the week here. And if you look at the at-the-money SPY, the ETF that tracks the S&P 500, the straddle that expires on Friday's close, okay, so that's Friday the 13th, it would cost you $8.50, let's just say, to buy that straddle. So what does that mean? That's the...

Put premium plus the call premium, you put it together. That is the implied movement between now and Friday's close. That's about 1.4%. So let's just say you think that we're going to break out to new highs, that the market is going to look past the CPI on Wednesday, the PPI on Thursday. There's a couple of earnings. We have these other events. Let's just say you wanted to be bullish between now and Friday's close. That would cost you a little more than a half a percent.

I mean, just think about that. That is cheap as chips. And the flip side of that is if you were looking at cheap as chips, Guy Dommy, cheap as chips. You have a VIX that's 17.3. You have a 10-year yield at 4.5. You have the dollar at basically 99 and change or so. And I remain pretty focused, Guy, on where the 10-year is and where the dollar are.

Okay, so you're selling treasuries higher yield. You're selling dollars for a lot of the same reasons, but you have an S&P at 6,000 up 2% of the year. Forget the VIX. This to me is the, that's the volatility gauge that I want to focus on right here. Yeah, and I'm looking down because I'm looking at the 10-year yield here, which is, you know, as you just said, either side of 4.5% resilient. I think, listen, you know, maybe I'm somewhat dogmatic, but, you know,

To me, the fact that it hangs around here is concerning. I think if you look at the 30-year yields, I think that's got to be concerning. The whole housing trade, to a certain extent, is built on where interest rates are, but it's also built on the job market and what's going on around there. We have heard not only around the edges, but we've heard

And more than anecdotally, I mean, there are a lot of companies that are laying people off right now. So despite the fact that the unemployment rate is 4.2% and people are championing this job market, I mean, there are things underneath the surface that you have to be concerned about. So you throw that in the mix, you throw higher yields in the mix, you throw a weakening dollar in the mix. And again, what is that telling you? What is the market trying to tell you right here?

But when you look at an S&P, again, as I said earlier, it sort of drowns all that stuff out because the S&P 500 becomes the judge and jury for everybody.

Speaking of a judge and jury, this would be on the generative AI trade. So Jensen Wang, he's still speaking like he's still out there talking. It's like the Cory Booker of AI. Yeah. Well, you know, so we had kind of highlighted this in the weeks leading up to their earnings, I think, at the end of last month. I mean, he was on a whirlwind tour.

speaking anywhere there was a mic or a camera. They put that quarterly result out and the guidance and people seemed really kind of excited about it. And I think this is something that we've been talking about for the last sort of few quarters or so. The percentage of the beats are obviously getting smaller and smaller. The response of the stock

are getting smaller and smaller. I think the implied move was seven and a half percent into that print. I think it moved a few percent or something like that. And after giving it all back a couple of days, it's kind of worked its way a bit higher, but he's out there again, speaking at this is GTC Paris this time. And he's talking about, you know, some sort of deal with the Chinese and you know, how important that is for them. It's not just rare earth, but it's access to their markets.

And you know, the thing that I take such issue with, it just seems like such a false narrative, this cognitive dissonance that like exists out there, this intellectual dishonesty, you know, go back three months.

The rare earth materials weren't an issue. They didn't put the curbs on exporting them yet because we hadn't put 145% reciprocal tariffs on Chinese goods that were coming in here. You know what I mean? So like if you look around and you look at what we're deeming to be wins in a trade war that's only been on for a month and a half, it just seems like a lot of nonsense. And so, you know, when you have someone like Jensen Wang, who his interests for his company are at

direct odds with what we are trying to achieve with a trade war specifically focused on China, it just doesn't make any sense to me that, A, market participants are rewarding people like him for having opposing views against what the administration is trying to accomplish and also opposing views to the way the administration keeps kind of pulling back. That's the whole taco trade. Do you know what I mean? So to me, it just seems a bunch of bullshit, but the market keeps rewarding that bullshit.

Well, I will tell you, and I think you would agree with this, he's done a masterful job of sort of walking that tightrope between, you know, speaking to the investment community and sort of, I'll use the word, placating the administration to a certain extent. You know, he's ingratiated himself, I think, pretty well. And I think he's also done a good job on the flip side, which is talking about his company and some of the concerns he has

around the tariffs and what it would mean. And that's not an easy dance to navigate, but I think he's managed to do it. And the company, for a myriad of different reasons, has been rewarded on the back of it in terms of what I still think is

is a premium valuation in terms of price to sales. Now, we'll see. I think NVIDIA, as we're sitting here, is trading about 142, which I think is the levels we traded sort of post earnings. They had a little bit of a sell-off. You know, maybe it's just lower left, upper right. You know, maybe that move in April was just sort of part and parcel with what we saw with the rest of the broader market. I think there's something else going on here. I do think he said he tells

a wonderful story. I think he has a wonderful story to tell. I also think that he's being rewarded to a degree that, in my opinion, doesn't make a lot of sense at these levels. No doubt about that. I agree. Let's talk a little bit about WWDC today. So this is Apple. And, you know, the reason why I bring up Apple and Tesla here is because these are the two worst performing stocks in the MAG7 or whatever you want to call it. You know, so Apple is down considerably on the year. We just saw some

Somebody downgraded it last week, I think, put like $170 price target. Here the stock is trading at what, $208? Ahead of this event, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think the good news for Apple is that the expectations are really low. You know, there was a time, I want to go back 5, 10, 15 years, where these things were big surprises.

You know, like Steve Jobs used to have the one more thing, you know what I mean? And so now it's pretty well telegraphed, largely because a lot of their hardware is iterative. A lot of the software has been something that has not been a reason to upgrade your hardware. There were high hopes a year ago this time that, you know, there was going to be some generative AI built into the phone that was released in this past fall. It didn't happen. They pushed out

all of their priorities as it relates to Apple intelligence. They're probably going to announce something where it's giving the opportunity for developers. And developers are important in and around their ecosystem because that's services revenue, right? And they're going to give them the ability to kind of build AI applications, but not over large models, over small models. So this is going to be a real snoozer unless they're able to pull something out of the hat, which I just don't think it exists. What do you do with Apple here? Because it feels like

Of all the Mag 7 also, or the Fateful 8, whatever you want to call it, this has the lowest percentage of buy ratings. Why is that important? It's just sentiment. You know what I mean? So thoughts here, guy, into the print, or it's not even a print, but into the event today.

Well, listen, you know this better than anybody. I think there were expectations into the last, this time last year, when the meeting was over or the event was over, I think you and I, well, I know I didn't think it was, you know, much to do about anything, quite frankly. Gene Munster had a different view. I will tell you, the stock really didn't react. It wasn't until sort of the next day that people started to get excited about things. Gene Munster called it sort of

I'm paraphrasing to a certain extent, but sort of this pivotal event in the history of the company. Now, here we are a little bit higher than we were this time last year, but let's just call it around similar levels. I don't think there are any expectations whatsoever. I mean, you just sort of addressed that. So I guess anything on the margins will be positive. But the problem, of course, is what are they going to say to excite people? And I do think...

Apple has some valuation concerns that it's had for quite some time. I also think they have a bit of an AI problem. I think you would agree with that as well. And to a certain extent, it feels like they've sort of thrown their hands up and said, all right, we're going to let the public sort of take over this. And if you want to sort of get on the platform and, you know, incubate and create, we're all open for it. So, you know.

Listen, it's hard to sort of play Apple from the short side historically, but I also think it's at a point in its history where, you know, it's sort of in no man's land here at $200 or so. Yeah, I think what comes out of it is a lot of tech people are going to walk away thinking, okay, we've been seeing all

of this crazy innovation in and around the space of generative AI over the last call it two and a half years. And we see nothing of that in one of the most important platforms on the earth from a technology perspective. And then you're going to have analysts who probably who are really excited about Apple intelligence and what it meant for

an upgrade cycle, what it meant for Apple's computing landscape going forward. Well, it hasn't materialized. So they're probably just going to say we're one step closer to that happening. And then we're really excited in the fall because they're going to announce this or today they're going to go through this new iOS, this operating system and what that means for some of the new hardware that's going to be coming along. So

again i wouldn't hold my breath i wouldn't buy it off of this but by the same token the idea to your point about pressing it the worst case scenarios are kind of when i say worst case the the the bearish you know kind of outlook is already in the stock in my opinion now here's one though we got to look at because there's another event um later on this week that tesla's robotaxi event and

And this is really one of the major pillars of the bull case right now, both near-term and long-term. People like Cathie Wood are putting like a multi-trillion dollar revenue opportunity, you know, looking years out for Tesla. It's one of the reasons why she remains so bullish on it. But then on the flip side of this, if you just suggest that,

there are just not going to be any revenue opportunities in the near term. If the EV business is really bad, that was meant to fund a lot of these Robotaxi and robots and that sort of thing. So I just have a hard time getting around the expectations for Robotaxi because here and now,

You better believe that at some point this year, they're going to start recognizing revenue. So RW Barrett analyst Ben Callow downgraded the stock today. He's been a long-term bull, but he is suggesting that, you know, Musk has said that there's going to be tens of thousands of these robo taxis on the road next year. He just doesn't see it happening, right? So if you push that out, you got to say to yourself, if you can't get your arms around EVs re-accelerating and they will not

this year, then what do you own the stock here for? What we have to mention as well and what we've talked about is what does this rift with the Trump administration mean to the company? Forget about the individuals. What does it mean to the company? Have they now put a giant bullseye on their collective back in terms of what this administration can do? Or

is it sort of business as usual i think that's one sort of wild card that obviously the market's priced in recently i mean i think the stock went from 360 down to about 285

pretty much in a straight line after that bit of a tweet storm. But here at 294, wherever we're trading, what have we priced in? Now, technically, I know we talked about this, that move to the 360 level was a textbook 50% retracement of the all-time high that we saw in late November, December into these recent lows that we saw sort of March, April-ish, 220. It made sense. The question is,

do we trade back down to those levels and what happens if and when we get there because that's been supported a number of times. You test support enough times, eventually you're going to break through it. So I do think they have a bit of a problem here that I don't think at 293 the market's pricing in. Yeah, and just to put

One last point about this feud between the two of them. It appears that the free speech warrior, absolutist, whatever you want, he deleted a bunch of his most inflammatory tweets about the president that he put out on Thursday. And it seems like, if anything, he's actually reposted some true social things from the president. But there was one that stuck out to me, Guy, about SpaceX pilots.

because they were talking about pulling back some of the contracts you know what i mean from his companies and musk tweeted yesterday something like we've got the rockets or we've got the spaceships they don't which i thought was kind of interesting so i'd be shocked if this thing doesn't die down a little bit but i also be shocked if elon is able to kind of have the proper focus to get the investment community and the analyst community around his vision for robo taxis given where his

mind is right now. So, you know, again, that's one where they better match expectations and probably try to exceed it. But how they exceed them, in my opinion, is going to be a bunch of Elon mumbo jumbo bullshit about timelines and the stuff that he never hits anyway. So it'll be really interesting to see how the stock trades into it now that you've had a couple of downgrades today and then how it trades out of it based on, you know, some of it.

Like last year, by the way, last July, they had a robo taxi event. It was massively disappointing and the stock was sold off pretty dramatically. So again, that's that. All right, CPI, PPI, a couple software earnings this week, a couple big events by some big tech companies. And then obviously the main event is the trade stuff. It'll be interesting if nothing happens,

They come out, they say it was really constructive, we're getting close to some sort of deal, how the market reacts, because to me, it's a little bit of the boy who cried wolf guy, Donnie.

Yeah, I think when President Trump, I think it was 2 a.m. last week, I don't know what day it was, basically said that, you know, I'm friends with President Xi, but he's very difficult to negotiate with. It's going to be very difficult for me. Immediately, the light bulb went off when I saw it the next morning saying, OK, this is a this is textbook. He's underpromising. He's going to overdeliver. And that's going to come in the form of, like I said, he was very difficult to negotiate with. But we

We're able to get this great deal, and this is going to be a benefit of the American people. And so I think there's some of that. Now, whether the market's sniffing that out or not remains to be seen. But, you know, I do think there's a very good chance that they're going to spin it as a

positive as you said earlier. Yeah, well, I think you've actually had some really great intuition about what is said coming out of the White House, what is reality and what is going to be acceptable by those who are kind of trying to figure this out through the lens of the markets and the like here. So, OK.

Covered a lot of ground here, Guy. Big week, as we just said. We'll see you all here. Market call every day, Monday through Thursday, 11 a.m. We've got a great slate of content on the Risk Reversal podcast. So stick with us this week. All right, I'll see you all.