Consumer Confidence Hits The Panic Button
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A warm welcome to the Wednesday Risk Reversal Podcast. Guy Adami, Dan Nathan, about to break some things down that we've noticed over the last couple of days. Dan, how are you? I'm doing great, Guy Adami. Yeah, you know, the tariff stuff, it doesn't stop. We're going to hit that. Your copper, I don't call it that thing that Tim Seymour calls it on the fast money there because, again, it's talking about the health of the global economy. If you were looking at it through the lens of copper, what is that expression, Guy? I don't use it.

that I won't come out of your mouth. Dr. Now, the upper dip dip dip. We're going to talk a little bit about that. I guess the consumer data, which is different than the consumer confidence that we saw a couple of weeks ago. A lot of stuff going on with Nvidia, with China, with high end chips. We're going to break that down a little bit and then some stuff on the EV landscape in China. They're they're partnering with the Germans, guys. So we'll break some of that down. Where do you want to start here, man?

Well, I mean, I think an interesting place to start is sort of the way the consumer feels about things. And Jacob just sent a text that 31% of Americans are unwilling to support the economy. And that probably comes down on party lines. But, you know, I think what we've seen over the last couple of weeks is a significant decline, a precipitous drop, as I want to say.

in the way people feeling about things. And it just goes to show you how sort of tenuous everything can be. You know, one day everybody feels great about the economy, about the market. And a week later, it's about as dour as I've seen in quite some time. And, you know, at some point that has impact, I think, on the market, Dan.

Yeah, I mean, you've said this for years on Fast Money, on our podcast. If you think about consumer confidence, it's really an overlay of the S&P 500. The S&P 500, which was down obviously 10% and it's low as about a week and a half ago or so, had a lot to do with confidence about economic policy. The fact that the Treasury Secretary, the President, they told you that there is no Trump put, that they think the economy needs a detox. They think the stock market needs to kind of

you know, act on, you know, in a way that is commensurate with the sort of long haul, you know, retooling of the economy. You and I both agree with that. One of the things, at least for me, I just didn't agree that they weren't focused on the stock market and that we use an opportunity to kind of change their tune a little bit on tariffs. I think that the whole tariff

threat, the trade war threat. I think people are having a hard time figuring out what the end game is. What are the threats? We started out with our biggest trading partners, which are some of our biggest allies. Right. And, you know, last time around, Trump won. They started with China. That's what the whole narrative was about. And, you know, one of the things I was listening to something or reading something the other day is like, you know,

When you think about tariff, when you think about trade, right? Yes, you could think about it as a negotiating tool, but what are the concessions they're actually looking for? Those haven't been particularly laid out clearly. And you think about Mexico and Canada, they're talking about fentanyl.

And I just don't think that's a huge problem. Clearly from the northern border, it's a much bigger issue as it relates to China. So I think the longer that investors don't understand what we're trying to achieve here, and then you have CEOs thinking about hiring and CapEx and R&D, that sort of thing. If all that's in flux, then you're going to have an uncertain economy. You're going to have an uncertain consumer. You're going to have an uncertain CEO. And you're going to have an uncertain stock market.

Yeah. Well, it's interesting, not that I'm one to sort of channel surf, but I found myself on a program the other day and I was listening to Steve Forbes, he of Forbes Magazine, and he was talking about some of these things about how if people feel poorly about things, it becomes self-fulfilling. In other words, people will stop spending. And when you have an economy that's driven by predicated a

built upon people feeling good about things and buying things, it's critically important that people continue to feel good about things. And you mentioned, and I agree with you, by the way, in terms of this administration, Trump 2.0, focus more on interest rates than they are on the stock market. But I think something that I've said, and I believe that I think their focus on interest rates becomes, I think,

a backward way to get to the stock market. I think there's a belief that if they can get interest rates lower, the stock market will take care of itself. So the one thing they should be focused on are interest rates. But the funny thing is, you know, the funny thing happened on the way to the circus. It's like that scene from Jaws. You a Jaws fan? Yeah, of course. Robert Shaw. Yeah. But there's a scene on the beach, if you recall, and the mayor was talking and he said to

Chief Brody, if you yell shark on the, excuse me, if you yell barracuda on the beach, nobody says anything. Nobody looks around. But if you yell shark on a beach, you have a panic. And I think that's what's going on here. You know, if you sort of talk about interest rates,

nobody's really focused on it. But if the stock market starts to deteriorate, everybody becomes focused on it. Then you have a bit of a panic. So in their want to get yields lower, hoping that will be supportive of the market, they're letting the market, well, the last couple of days notwithstanding, sort of fall to the wayside. And I think to your point,

They are pretty much focused on the stock market. And I think at a certain level, there is a bit of a put in terms of the rhetoric they're going to put back out to support said market. Yeah. And I guess if you're thinking about the bounce that we've had over the last few trading days, I mean, it's pretty, you know, I mean, it's impressive. You know, we've gone from 5,500 to 5,780 or so. Is it starting to lose a little bit of steam? We talked about some levels on market call over the course of the last couple

couple of days, maybe 5800 is kind of that resistance level. It's also taking us back to November 5th, which is Election Day. It's also the January low. Let's see what happens. I mean, I don't think we get to April 2nd, which Trump calls Liberation Day for the U.S. economy. And we have all too much clarity about what happened. I actually think that, like, for instance, if we had some grand deal with the EU, with Mexico,

And with Canada, I mean, I think that would be, you know, I think that's what the market kind of rallied on, because I think the China thing is going to take a lot of time. And the China thing, while they're not nearly as big of a trading partner as those three or those two countries and that kind of economic block.

they are the important one, in my opinion, is we think about adversaries versus allies. We're always going to get things right with our allies, right? Yeah, well, we should. Well, I mean, that's my point. It's like you mentioned this. China's thinking 100 years out, and we're thinking two quarters out.

By the way, the president actually said similar in an interview, I think, with Maria Bartiromo a couple of weeks ago in terms of the timeframes that we think about and the timeframes that the Chinese think about, which I think the market really did not like to hear because effectively what he's saying is, you know, we're going to have to endure some short term pain to sort of get to the place we want to be in the longer term. It's something you typically don't hear.

from politicians. And I'm not saying it was some magnanimous gesture. I think there was a concern and he was trying to sort of position it in a way like, you know, we're at a point in our history now where, you know, we're going to have to sort of suck it up for a while and sort of get to the other side. So we'll see. The other thing that I'm really interested in, you know, again, to me,

All this is really fascinating. You mentioned levels. 58.25 or so is a 50% retracement of the recent high that we saw, I guess, in February in this sort of 55.05 level. But this is quarter end as we get either to the end of this week or Monday, depending

depending on the way people look at their books. And they're going to be some huge inflows into the market as things get rebalanced in this quarter. And so you can continue to see this levitation into the end of the week or even Monday. And then I think the rubber hits the road as we move forward next week. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, it will be interesting to see how we get into quarter end, especially a quarter that's probably one of the worst quarters for the stock market. And, you know, I'm just going to take a guess here, maybe going back to 2022.

You know, speaking about this trade situation and thinking about, you know, there's that kind of quantitative result that we might have as it comes down to X's and O's and trade imbalances and the like here. And what are the tariffs, you know, percentage wise and this and that, whatever. And then there's the more qualitative sort of stuff. Right. And here's a headline from Wired magazine. This is a couple of days ago. Trump's aggression sours.

uh europe on u.s cloud giants and let me just read a couple of quotes here because i think this is really interesting that european companies and governments are souring on the u.s use of american cloud services provided by the three so-called hyperscalers that's google cloud it's microsoft azure and it's amazon web service some of the organizations appear to be reconsidering their use of three companies cloud services including servers storage and databases citing uncertainties around the privacy and data access fears under the trump administration now

What's interesting to me about that is that that sounds exactly like us towards China. And we've had this ongoing situation as it relates to TikTok. That's going all the way back to Trump 1.0. That was introduced to us by Trump himself. Now, he's obviously turned on that, but there's a whole host of other examples. Now, if we just want to think about the advancements that are going on in China because of this attitude change,

by us towards them, whether it's DeepSeek, whether it's Alibaba, whether it's going to be Baidu and Ant Financial, which was yesterday. I mean, this is all really important stuff. And so why are we fighting with our allies when we know that our adversary, this is the future war. This is the war that's coming. You know what I mean? And it's not about shipping lanes and commodities and this and that. It's about the cloud. It's about data. And it's how you're using this technology to kind of, you know,

look, all this technology guy is going into drones that the next wars are going to be fought with. Well, it's interesting. You know, there are people that will say, and again, I'm just stating what I've heard. I'm not suggesting this is correct, but

But the Chinese are sitting back and watching and saying to themselves, if the United States can be that difficult on their allies, what can they be with us? So maybe there's some of that going on. Again, I'm not suggesting that's right, but there's a school of thought to that. But it's interesting to bring up China because all those things you said are clearly at the forefront. All that should be concerns, whether they're an adversary or they're a competitor,

or an enemy, I think that's somewhat semantics, but it's clear we have differing views on things. And I got to tell you something, if the Chinese are sitting back and watching some of the rhetoric going on here in the United States in terms of making Canada the 51st state or

at taking Greenland in some way, shape or form. Don't you think that sort of empowers them to say, well, if the United States is fine with saying those things, why can't we do similar with Taiwan, who they feel they have rightful ownership of in the first place? And that sort of hasn't been talked about a lot, but that's out there as well. So

There are a lot of, listen, there continue to be a lot of things to be concerned about on the geopolitical front. You know, I think for a period of time, the market was trying to price that in. We've obviously seen a recent bounce. But those things, Dan, I think you would admit are not going away. I think they're just sort of getting ratcheted up. Well, I'd add Russia into the mix. You know what I mean? Like, depending upon what the concessions are for a ceasefire, you know, you think back to 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea. I mean, they kept...

a lot of that land. This is an extension, you know, the invasion of Ukraine. This is an extension of what went on, you know, a decade ago or so. So if they are able to kind of carve out more of Ukraine, this is basically the Russians being able to kind of impose their will on a sovereign nation. If we were to do that with Greenland or Canada, which is not going to happen, it'd be the same thing. And to your point, it gives China a lot of cover to do whatever they want.

One of the things that's interesting is all this rhetoric around the Panama Canal. And, you know, that maybe is a bit of a sideshow, but that's something that I think would be, you know, every continent, every country on the planet should have some concern about that just for purposes of shipping. There's another article, Guy, that caught my eye in the Financial Times yesterday. NVIDIA's China sales face threat from Beijing's.

environmental curves and they're talking about, you know, introduce some energy efficiency rules for the use of advanced chips that would prevent Chinese companies from buying Nvidia's best selling processors. And, you know, when you think about that, that comes back to these export controls that are going to adversely affect Nvidia. It also speaks to the sort of innovation of Chinese chip makers and their ability to kind of compete with Nvidia chips. And they have a lot of interest in kind of using those chips.

domestically you know to kind of train their models and if they're doing it more efficiently I think that's a really important point there so a lot of stuff it just seems like Nvidia guy is a bit heavy you know closed down yesterday in a big green day for the S&P 500 well over the last couple days and it's down 3% out of the gate this is Wednesday morning shortly after the close so Nvidia went from being this kind of the kind of kingpin of the whole generative AI story over the last couple years to now being a little bit of a

drag and maybe suggesting that, you know, at least the fever has broken. That's a term that you and I have used a bunch over the last month or so. Yeah. And I'll, I'll stay with that theme and say, you're right. As we're sitting here this morning, Nvidia is trading either side of $117. I think we traded as low as one Oh five or thereabouts on March 10th. We've obviously bounced a little bit, but the bounce has not been nearly as robust as one would think given the sell-off we've seen since January. But again,

I've been looking at this and I've been thinking about it a little bit. If you go and look, Microsoft topped out in July of last year. And since that point, it's been going sideways to lower. And I get this feeling that we're going to six months, seven months from now,

We're going to be talking about how NVIDIA since January has been going sideways to slightly lower. The setup to me seems a lot the same when valuation all of a sudden started to matter for some reason last summer in Microsoft. And again, an incredible company, but you started to see some declines in terms of cloud growth and those things. And I think the market sort of picked up on it. So

I'm going to throw it out there and say what we're seeing now in NVIDIA is going to be eerily reminiscent of what we saw in Microsoft last summer. Yeah, no doubt. And I guess the concern with Microsoft, because right out of the gate, you know, they were perceived winner in this generative AI trade because of their relationship with open AI, you know, back in 2022, 2023.

They invested a lot of money to get exclusive access to their models. This is OpenAI's models, and they were going to integrate it into a lot of their products and services. But the most important part about that is that Microsoft customers would use their cloud service, Azure, to access these models to build products on top of it. And so one of the things I think in the quarter just released that was Q4 and the Q1 guidance across the hyperscalers was basically a

deceleration in revenue growth. We've been talking about what are the use cases, how are companies getting return on the investment of paying up for these services and it really remains to be seen what exactly those are. I think to your point that Microsoft might have been a canary in the coal mine as an

early leader. And now you're seeing OpenAI looking to broaden out their relationships and possibly use other cloud providers. You just saw that they were part of this Stargate, which was Oracle, which is trying to compete with the major hyperscalers on the cloud. And they partnered with SoftBank, you know. So like, I think all of that points away from Microsoft's early lead.

Yeah, and I think it's something to watch. And, you know, it's funny. The funny thing is, you know, nobody cares about certain things on the way up. But when things start to decelerate and when competition becomes a factor and then margins start to decelerate,

That's a problem. And historically, if you go back and look, I mean, some of the great companies of all time, they've all sort of fallen victim to that. And it's I think it's foolish to think that it can't happen with an NVIDIA as well. I mean, I heard this morning listening to some of the shows about the moats they had and about all the different businesses they built around it to insulate themselves from competition.

And that may be true, but we're in the most innovative time probably in the history not only of our country, but maybe of the world. And to think that somebody is not going to come along that can figure this out at a cheaper price where margins start to contract, I think it's just, you know,

I think it's wishful thinking, in my opinion. And going back to that article from Wired talking about European, you know, hesitancy to use U.S. cloud providers, you know, when all these companies gave their capex like Microsoft, you know, they kind of guided to 80 billion dollars, I guess, on their fiscal year. So that's probably coming to an end. But they talked about half of that being used academically.

outside the US, right? So at some point, that's one portion that they could pull back on. And I think pulling back on CapEx is probably a sign of weakness. It's not like a sign that things are going really well and they see all this expansion opportunity. We talked a little bit yesterday on the pods about Joe Tsai, who's the chairman of Alibaba, who was speaking at a conference in Hong Kong, HSBC. And listen,

He said it's the beginning of a bubble. So let's be clear. He didn't say like this is all gonna blow, but he said there were quotes like he's astounded by the amount of capex that's been signaled by these US hyperscalers and the like. Listen, it's pretty obvious to me that at some point we're gonna reach a peak where we just have over capacity. There's not a lot of use cases. We were talking to Gene Munster of Deepwater on Fast Money last night, and he was on the pod that dropped yesterday.

And you know, his point is that, listen, you know, these companies are thinking again long term. If they're not spending now and they really come up short in the future when there's more demand, then there's gonna be much bigger problems, which all makes sense to me. But if you look at the product cycles that we've seen in these major secular shifts over the last call,

30 years or so, there's always been these periods of digestion. There's always been these periods where you're able to once again kick the spending back up and try to time it a little bit rather than just getting way over your skis, which will weigh on your stock. It will weigh on your financials at some point in that sort of period of digestion.

You know, there's a herd mentality to all this as well. When companies start saying that they need to spend this money in order to keep up and not to be left behind, other companies are sort of forced to at least speak in kind. And, you know, it's great to say we're going to spend 80, you know, capex of $80 billion towards AI out of Microsoft.

out of Amazon, out of Apple, out of whatever company you want to throw out there. It's probably north of $300 billion for the major companies. It's another thing to actually spend that money. And again, if you were to see a downturn in the economy for whatever reason, CapEx is going to be one of the first things I think to get hit, regardless of whether or not people feel that it's imperative not to be left behind. So

I don't think it's necessarily etched in stone. And we haven't gotten to that point either. Like the sanctity of CapEx, something that you've said and something that I've said before as well, I think is something we should really keep a close eye on. Yeah, and I guess the last point here is that it might prove to be a positive. It goes back to 2022. When some of these mega cap companies, tech companies started cutting jobs towards the end of 2022, that's when a lot of these stocks bottomed.

meta in particular right so in a lot of ways you know what i mean that you could think about this well it'd be huge for cash flow right you know there's a whole host of other metrics that it could be good for but one company that it's really bad for is nvidia and then the knock-on is taiwan semi right and so that might be one of the reasons why nvidia is down 25 of the year and hasn't really seen an uptick um in the last month i know it rallied a little bit

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I want to hit something, Guy, that we talked about on Fast Money last night. Gene Munster, going back to him. He was basically saying, and I guess related to these comments that we just made here for the last few minutes or so, he's basically saying this is a race to artificial general intelligence, right? AGI. And you said, huh? And I said, basically... No, I did not say, huh? Tim said, huh? What did you... Oh, okay. I just sat there and listened. I mean, I'm not always the villain in these movies. That's true.

So you're the antihero. Okay, let's just be really clear on that. Okay, and we root for the antihero sometimes, right? So the idea of artificial general intelligence is that we're going to build these AIs that are basically equally as smart as most humans. Maybe they reason better. Maybe they do a whole host of things. And when you think about it,

that. It comes down to trust, right? And that's one of the big reasons. And we just talked about this. The Europeans might not want to use our cloud providers. We certainly are not going to want to use China's cloud providers. They may not want to use ours. So you start thinking of this sort of tripolar world that's existing, you know, our adversaries,

our allies who we piss off and then us you know what I mean and there's a lot of people within America who don't trust a lot of these big companies you know and so I think that's really important to kind of think about you know and it brings me back to something guy and we don't have a script here do we we just kind of turn the mics on the cameras on we just talk like I'm reading from a script and also this is I am unscripted as they come as people I think of

come to learn over the years. I'm bound to say just about anything. Like you could play word association with me right now. I think it would blow people's mind, but that's not what we're here to do. Okay. But this is also a safe space, isn't it guy? Wasn't there a movie with Jodie Foster about safe spaces? It was a, it was safety room or something. So we're not panicking here, but this is a safe space, right? And so this brings me back. If we're talking about trust,

And we had a conversation last week on Fast Money. And, you know, this was a couple of days after Elon Musk had just retweeted somebody. I don't know who it was. And the tweet was, you know, somebody saying that Hitler, Stalin and Mao Zedong, or I think it was one of them, is not they're not responsible for the deaths of millions of people, that sort of thing. And, you know, he took it down. A lot of the print media covered this.

But on CNBC and other financial news networks, there was not a single mention of it. Okay. And, you know, when we're talking about it on the show, you know, I kind of went through it. I just took 30 seconds and I basically said, I get it. This is a show about the stock market and economics and stuff like that. But this needs to be talked about. This is the CEO of one of the largest, most influential companies in the public markets. He's obviously the CEO of SpaceX, which is easily one of the most influential companies in,

in the world when you think about the rockets that they have going to the ISS and their ability to do things that Boeing and Lockheed and some of these other companies cannot do. You think about Starlink. Starlink has been in the middle of almost every geopolitical situation that we've talked about just now, where you think of Russia, Ukraine, definitely China, Taiwan, and the like here. The Canadians are canceling Starlink contracts as a government. So when it comes down to trust,

Can you trust a guy like Elon Musk, who's investing massively in AI, XAI by all accounts in a very short period of time has caught up with some of these other models, whether it be open AI and the like. Can you trust a guy

who is basically, you know, he's been, he's about as far right as you can get right now. And that's not a political statement because when you think about how his car sales are declining, we just saw in February, Tesla car sales were down 47%. Germany has been a disaster. He supported a 50%,

far right German candidate that Germans don't even want to support, you know, that sort of thing. So I think trust is really important. I think the fact that financial news is not spending more time on this, maybe it's fear of retribution. Maybe if you're a bank, if this was Jamie Dimon, all right, here's the question, guys. That was a rant. If this was Jamie Dimon,

He'd be hanging out with Matt Lauer on the east end of Long Island and you'd never see him again because he'd be so canceled because so many companies would not do business with that bank. But yet he's willing to bank a guy like that. Do you know what I mean? And so I just think there's just so...

There's so many contradictions here. There's so much hypocrisy. And the fact that this is not mentioned on CNBC at all is crazy to me. That's not an indictment of the network. That's an indictment of the people who come on the network, right? And so the reason I was thinking about this is I got an email and I got a bunch of emails. I basically said it's despicable his behavior.

okay and i got a lot of emails not hate emails people saying to me thank you for mentioning that because no one else is doing that on the network and i just think that is something that i think is important because the our panel and you were on the panel and i'm not giving you but immediately went to talking about the stock no one wanted to talk about that situation i think that's the most important situation not only about the stock but about this whole

whole conversation that we just had about AI, who controls it, what are the battlegrounds going to be going forward, and he's not a guy that I would trust to put kind of his hands on this wheel going forward. No, you make fair points. I mean, hypocrisy, as you said, I mean, there's enough to go around for both sides of the aisles and a lot of people out there. And I think your point about if somebody else had done it, there'd probably be much more coverage around it. But

I also think there's a normalization of bad behavior that's going on over the last few years around Elon Musk, where people are no longer surprised. And I'm not saying that's a good thing. I just think that's what's going on right here. They've been desensitized to a lot of these things. I mean, if you recall the interview he did with Andrew Ross Sorkin, where, and I won't use the vernacular, but in terms of the

on the platform that no longer wanted to be there. He basically said, then go F themselves. So, you know, when you're sort of inundated with that over a number of years, I think, again, maybe,

many people, myself probably included, becomes desensitized. And again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but, you know, I think in terms of the broader picture, you're right to bring it up. In terms of the stock, Tesla, I think the market sort of made their decisions when you saw a stock lose almost 60, 65% of its value over the course of a month and a half or two months. Obviously, it's bounced a little bit since then. So, you know, I think the market sort of picked up on it in the way the market typically does. I

the media decides what they want to do on their own. But your point about, you know, this is a person that's in a position where, you know, broader markets can be influenced. I think that's a fair point. And, you know, are you comfortable with somebody like that sitting in that type of power seat? I just think that, and I don't mean to be hyperbolic or I don't think I'm being hyperbolic. I think we're going to come and rue the day that we did not hold the feet of

to the fire of some of these sorts of people because, you know, he's going to be the first trillionaire in the world. He's going to have more power than most rogue nation. You know what I mean? Um, you know, like, uh, you know, guys who run those sorts of companies, you know, he's going to be like the ability to kind of be like a Putin for like

think about it. I know this sounds crazy and I've been saying this for five years. I think he's the most dangerous man on the planet. This is not political. This is long before he ever took some political sort of leanings. This is like, look at what he controls. If you took every Bond villain of the last 50 years and you mashed them up together, you get Elon Musk. Like,

He controls a huge mouthpiece in the media landscape, obviously Twitter. He controls right now one of the most influential AI companies. He controls the only mechanism to get really to the space station and back. He controls a massive communications satellite network

You know what I mean? And all of these things are way beyond their next competitor, you know? And so he's working on, you know, there'll be people that will, and I think there will be people that correctly will say Mark Zuckerberg is really no difference in terms of the seat that he holds at Facebook and with the amount of people that are on that platform and their ability to sort of,

change narratives or dictate narratives. And I think, listen, they admitted to such. So maybe it's done in a more elegant way, but it's no less, I think it's no less destructive. I mean, they're obviously completely different people. Well, he's been held in check. They have similar powers to you. Yeah, but he's been held in check. He had to go in front of Congress. This is after the 16 election. He's the one who bowed to the knees of this administration. You know what I mean? So like for all intents and purposes, he's been neutered.

And he deserves to be neutered. You know why? Because he's got no backbone. He's got no spine. At least Elon Musk is leading with that. You know what I mean? Like, you can respect that because, you know, he doesn't, he's not asking any questions or asking for any, you know, you know, apologies or this and that. He's just going forward. So again, I just think that's really interesting. I think it needs to be talked about more. Maybe not for me, but maybe other people. I think a lot of our listeners, a lot of Fast Money viewers, or maybe even my friends are sick of it. But I just think it's that important.

I think he's going to easily be one of the most – I think he is right now. I think he's somebody that everybody has to keep an eye on because of all the things that we've talked about in the last 25 minutes, he has more influence than most other people on the planet. And I just think that's something that we should be really focused on. So enough.

enough. A lot to discern, a lot to dissect without question. We have Brian Belsky coming on the Risk Reversal podcast tomorrow. That will drop on Friday. So a lot going on here, but we just want to sort of set up midweek what we see is going on. No doubt. And so Belsky, BMO Capital, he's been on the pod a bunch of times. He's actually got a lot of really great non-consensus sorts of views and he's just willing to kind of put them all out there in a public forum. We also have Par Shah. He is a

tech PM at Kingdon Capital. That's going to drop tomorrow. He and I just had that conversation and we're talking about probably a lot more, I don't know, a lot more intelligently than let's say I could talk about a lot of these big tech issues. He's a guy who puts a lot of money to work. He's got a long short portfolio. He's got lots of views on tech, mag seven, AI and all the like. So we have-

I got to tell you, that is kind of catching on on the set of Fast Money and a little bit. You know, the other thing is I get much less hate mail now, guys, that I'm considered the sort of silver lining guy on the desk. So I'm really excited about that. It's kind of a new path for me on the CNBC's Fast Money.

No, listen, you wear it well, as they say. That's a Rod Stewart song, by the way. All right, this was a lot of fun. I got to rant a little bit. I came in. Maybe I just had like a pot of coffee too much this morning, but we will see. You and I are going to be on the market call. It's every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 11 a.m. So we got that. We got the Rich Russell pod every morning. A lot of fun, a lot of stuff going on here. See you later, folks. See you, thanks.