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cover of episode Peter Boockvar on The Fed, Volatility, Valuations and Market Shifts

Peter Boockvar on The Fed, Volatility, Valuations and Market Shifts

2024/12/20
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On The Tape

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Dan Nathan
知名金融分析师和评论员,常在 CNBC 上提供市场分析和评论。
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Danny Moses
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Peter Boockvar
作为Bleakley Financial Group的首席投资官和《The Boock Report》的编辑,Peter Boockvar提供深入的经济和市场分析。
Topics
Peter Boockvar: 进入美联储会议前,股市存在两种截然不同的市场:一种是押注特斯拉等大型科技股和其他投机性股票的市场;另一种是市场广度极差的市场。极度乐观的情绪加剧了这种局面。债券市场已经预期美联储只会再降息两次,而股市却对此视而不见,这导致市场对美联储的声明反应过度。美联储主席鲍威尔提醒市场,持续较高的利率是真实存在的,这打破了市场对美联储持续降息的预期,导致股市回调。全球主权债券市场对不断上升的债务和赤字以及通胀的反应,即使央行降息也无济于事。我们正处于债券熊市,利率的趋势是上升的。美联储降低短期利率的同时,长期利率却保持粘性,这给许多依赖利率的企业带来了混乱。投资级债务在2025年、2026年和2027年面临巨大的到期压力,这些债务将在新的利率环境下重新定价。高收益债券与国债的利差正在收窄,这表明市场过于乐观。利率对经济的影响是两极分化的:对一些人来说是限制性的,对另一些人来说则不然。在大型科技股大幅上涨之前,标普500指数的市盈率接近23倍,这表明估值过高。预测市盈率很难,因为这取决于利率和盈利增长。在高利率环境下,维持当前的市盈率水平可能具有挑战性。2025年实现两位数的盈利增长可能具有挑战性,因为大型科技公司的增长可能放缓。2025年,大型科技公司的盈利增长可能放缓,但其他公司的盈利增长可能会增加,从而抵消大型科技公司增长放缓的影响。10年期美国国债收益率可能会再次测试5%的水平,甚至可能突破该水平。黄金的配置价值依然很高,因为央行持续买入黄金,并且如果经济衰退,黄金将成为避险资产。即使美国政府控制预算赤字,央行也不太可能减少黄金购买量。如果政府支出减少,可能会导致经济衰退,从而推动黄金价格上涨。投资者将黄金视为债券的替代品,这增加了黄金的需求。尽管全球政府的不稳定性增加了投资风险,但在新兴市场,特别是亚洲新兴市场,仍然存在投资机会。在寻找投资机会时,关注那些表现不佳的市场往往能带来最好的回报,尽管时机难以把握。美国政府需要控制预算赤字,否则可能会面临债务危机。 Dan Nathan: 主要的云计算基础设施公司正在进行大规模的资本支出,这可能会导致未来出现消化期。微软CEO萨蒂亚·纳德拉表示,该公司目前并不受芯片供应的限制,这与之前芯片短缺的预期相反。英伟达CEO黄仁勋之前表示,对下一代Hopper芯片的需求非常高,但现在微软表示不受芯片供应限制,这可能预示着云计算基础设施领域的估值过高。云计算基础设施公司的股票价格上涨可能已经提前反映了未来的增长,这可能会导致未来股价下跌。FactSet预计2024年公司盈利将增长15%,但这可能难以实现,因为大部分增长都来自少数几家大型科技公司。未来几年,中国半导体产业的扩张可能会对半导体市场产生影响。传统的60/40投资组合在高利率环境下面临风险,投资者应该关注高品质、高股息的股票。全球各国政府的不稳定性可能会导致风险资产的波动性增加。 Danny Moses: 债券市场已经预期美联储将降息,并且通胀预期有所上升,但10年期国债收益率却在三个月内上涨了100个基点,这表明市场对债务上限和预算问题的担忧。即使美联储采取更鹰派的立场,如果美联储致力于减缓经济增长并控制通胀,10年期国债收益率理论上应该会下降,但实际情况并非如此。两年期和十年期国债收益率之间的差距收窄至25个基点,这与2022年3月的情况类似,当时市场大幅下跌。被动型投资策略的风险在于,如果市场下跌,投资者可能会赎回资金,导致被动型基金的资金外流。被动型投资策略的风险之一是,如果市场下跌,高龄投资者可能会减少股票投资比例,转而投资固定收益产品。被动型投资策略的风险在于,如果大型科技股的表现下降,投资者可能会重新评估其投资策略。当前市场与2021年的市场相似,都存在过度冒险行为,但利率环境不同。当前市场与2021年的市场相似,都存在过度冒险行为,但利率环境不同,这使得投资者应该更加谨慎。如果高利率抑制经济增长,并影响公司盈利,那么市场可能会出现回调。美元走强以及政府支出减少可能会对经济增长造成负面影响。鉴于近期黄金价格下跌,黄金的风险回报比可能已经改善。苹果公司2024年的iPhone销量预计持平,安卓手机的销量增速也只有个位数,这表明智能手机市场增长放缓。像莱纳这样的公司,其盈利报告真实地反映了经济状况,而那些依赖人工智能的科技公司则掩盖了经济的真实情况。美光科技的业绩表明,人工智能领域的资本支出正在挤压其他领域的支出。莱纳的业绩报告显示,由于抵押贷款利率上升,购房者需求下降,导致莱纳不得不增加折扣和激励措施。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did the market react negatively to the Fed's latest meeting?

The market was too positioned in one direction, particularly in tech stocks and speculative plays, leading to a sell-off when the Fed's message didn't align with market expectations. The Fed's reminder that fewer rate cuts might be on the horizon disrupted the bullish sentiment.

Why are bond yields rising despite the Fed's hawkish stance?

Despite the Fed's hawkish stance, bond yields are rising due to a combination of factors: positioning unwind, the realization of higher-for-longer rates, and concerns about rising debts and deficits. The bond market is signaling that it expects higher rates to persist, even as the Fed cuts short-term rates.

Why is the 10-year Treasury yield significant for the economy?

The 10-year Treasury yield is a key indicator of the cost of capital and economic health. If it rises above 5%, it could signal stagflation and put pressure on corporate earnings and valuations, leading to a potential market correction.

Why is the tech sector, particularly AI, facing challenges?

The tech sector, especially AI, is facing challenges due to overconcentration in a few hyperscalers and potential overordering of chips. This could lead to a period of digestion and a reevaluation of valuations, especially if earnings growth expectations are not met.

Why is gold a good investment in 2025 according to Peter Boockvar?

Gold is a good investment in 2025 because of its role as an alternative to bonds, strong central bank demand, and the potential for higher interest rates to tip the economy into recession. Gold is viewed as a safe haven in times of economic uncertainty and rising deficits.

Why are emerging markets still attractive despite global instability?

Emerging markets, particularly in Asia, are still attractive despite global instability because they offer economic growth opportunities. While these markets are underperforming, they can present good value when the switch from bad to less bad occurs, making them potential sources of high returns.

Why is the debt ceiling an important issue for the U.S. economy?

The debt ceiling is important because it highlights the need for fiscal responsibility. The U.S. has seen a significant increase in debt, and bond markets are signaling concerns about excessive spending. A failure to address the debt ceiling could lead to higher interest rates and economic instability.

Chapters
This chapter analyzes the market's reaction to the Federal Reserve's latest meeting, focusing on the contrasting positions in the stock market (speculative tech vs. everything else) and extreme bullish sentiment indicators. The discussion includes the positioning in both stock and bond markets leading up to the meeting.
  • Contrasting positions in the stock market: speculative tech vs. everything else
  • Extreme bullish sentiment indicators
  • Positioning in stock and bond markets

Shownotes Transcript

Dan Nathan and Danny Moses are joined by Peter Boockvar from the Bleakley Financial Group). The trio delves into recent market volatility following the Federal Reserve's latest meeting. Peter Boockvar shares his insights on market reactions in both the stock and bond markets, discussing key factors such as positioning and sentiment. They explore the Fed's influence on market expectations and the broader economic outlook, touching on subjects like inflation, debt ceilings, and the impact of AI on the tech sector. Boockvar also provides contrarian views and investment picks for 2025, emphasizing the importance of quality over speculative investments.

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On The Tape is a weekly podcast with CNBC Fast Money’s Guy Adami, Dan Nathan and Danny Moses. They’re offering takes on the biggest market-moving headlines of the week, trade ideas, in-depth analysis, tips and advice. Each episode, they are joined by prominent Wall Street participants to help viewers make smarter investment decisions. Bear market, bull market, recession, inflation or deflation… we’re here to help guide your portfolio into the green. Risk Reversal brings you years of experience from former Wall Street insiders trading stocks to experts in the commodity market.

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