Super Soul Special: Nate Berkus: Surviving the Storm
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I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time, taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.

Last time, Nate Berkus and I began a conversation we'd never had before, really. We heard about some of the spiritual milestones of his life so far, the roots of his lifelong passion for design, his journey of coming out to his family, and we got a glimpse of who Nate calls the love of his life. Today, we continue our Heart to Heart with a devastating event that changed everything for Nate, the massive 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. You're right.

And the Things That Matter. Good title, may I say. Thank you. You write that since December 26, 2004, I've never defined myself by anything other than my ability to survive. I don't think about whether I'm successful or I'm not successful, famous or not famous, busy or bored. To me, the ultimate question, the only question is, can I survive or can't I? That's what matters. Really? That's it. That's it. Does the tsunami...

When you go through a traumatic event experience like that, is it always with you in some way? Always. Always in some way. Even now, I'm back in love personally, really in love. And I see myself behaving in a way with my new boyfriend that is fear-based that something will happen to him.

Or worse, how I sense-- I think to myself how he would be should something happen to me. And those kinds of thoughts are not-- they can be healthy, they can motivate you to be... They can also trap you. ...present, and they can trap you. And so I have to be conscious of that, 'cause that's just in my consciousness now, and I have to be aware. It takes a new-- it takes a heightened level of awareness in everything. Well, I would have to say,

you went through a tsunami. I know. Not just a flood or hurricane, but a tsunami. Right. Yeah. And that...

It's physical, but it's also metaphysical, it's spiritual, it's emotional, it's all of that. It really was. I don't recognize myself. I thought I knew myself well when I was growing up. I always thought that I knew myself. And I don't, I really don't recognize the person that I was before the tsunami. And everything that I've learned from that experience, really everything, I wouldn't trade. I really...

Trust myself and like myself after that I do yeah And I know that I can survive and I you know I miss parts of me will miss Fernando and parts of me honor Fernando still by living so fully

Born in Argentina, Fernando Bangochea was an internationally acclaimed photographer. His work appeared in major magazines, including "O". He traveled the world on assignment, but met Nate for the first time on a photo shoot for "O at Home" magazine. That was in 2003. You dedicate the book to F? I do.

The first book and this book, both to him. You know, I think about all the time, where would we be had he survived? Would we still be together? Would he have agreed with the decisions that I've made since then in life? What would he think about who I am today? Because it's certainly different than who I was in 2004. What I also, aside from how beautifully and poignantly

and movingly the story is told. I mean, I've heard you tell it. I looked in your eyes shortly after it happened. But the way you write about it here, I could feel him, his last feeling you, actually, in that water. But you say that he helped you to see life differently, in a more beautiful way.

This is the quote I've been looking for. He showed me a bigger life than I ever dreamed of for myself. Yeah. Yeah. And he really did. Yeah. I have to say this chapter in this book, this was the hardest chapter.

thing for me to work on and it didn't I didn't set out to write the story of Fernando and I or the tsunami in a design book yeah but what happened was that this is more than the design it is and it became it's a design spiritual book it really is yeah and what happened was when I started getting all the stories back from everybody else that's included in the book yeah and they were so forthcoming and so honest about who they've loved and what they've lost and their stories I knew that I really had to dig in and so

I wasn't always prepared emotionally to dig into this story, the nine times I had to do to get it right and to get it to be what I needed it to say. But it was a process. It was a very cathartic process to even write it down. I would like for you to read the excerpt from page 27 on how you and Fernando met. OK.

Fernando and I met in 2003 at a photo shoot for O at Home magazine. He had been hired to photograph the makeover process of a living room I was brought in to redo. The day I met him, I could see through his photographs how he saw me. And I remember thinking, things don't get any better than this. How did he see you? He...

Saw me for who I wanted for how I wanted to be seen hmm, and I felt that from the very first Moments with him. What does that mean it meant that he? captured not only what I looked like but he felt like he captured my humor and my Self and he I don't know how he did that there was an energy that sort of came out

over the room and the whole shoot and the whole location between the two of us that was really, really powerful. - On that shoot, yeah. - And we both felt it, although we couldn't articulate it. And then I had the sort of the presence of mind to believe that that energy was just between him and I until we started dating and I realized that that was his gift.

that anyone that he put his lens in front of also felt that way and wanted to be seen that way. - Or just wanted to be with him. - Yep. - Around that energy. - Around it. - Because this is the real truth and the real powerful spiritual lesson for all of us that Toni Morrison shared when she was on the show years ago when she talked about your kids entering the room, do your eyes light up? - Yep. - Do your eyes light up when I enter the room? She said, that's what everybody wants to know. - Everybody.

do I matter, do my eyes light up? And also, what every human being wants is what you just said. We just want you to see us. Right. Not just for...

not just for who we are, but for the best. - That we can be. - Yeah, you sang that. - Yeah, it really did. I knew that. - That's profound. - It was an enormous, the first time it had ever happened. And I didn't really know what to do with that level of energy. It was really hard to receive at that moment. But I did and I took it in and I sort of bounced that back. - That feels like love, doesn't it? - Yeah. - When somebody sees you that way. - It does, it is. - That's what love feels like. - That is what love feels like.

Wow. Aha. That's it. I love how you say that "Renando was audacious and complicated and spontaneous and sophisticated and charismatic and demanding and graceful and volatile and extravagant and occasionally impossible."

Wow, that's a relationship. That is. And that's knowing somebody and really honoring them for being all of those things. You know, there's a peacefulness that comes over when you've found the right person for you. Yes. And you just know that whatever happens, that's the person that you're going to be with. Yeah. And that's how I felt about Fernando. Nate says Fernando broadened his world, convincing him to take a three-week trip through Southeast Asia, something Nate had never done before.

I didn't know people that went on vacation for three weeks. I didn't even, that was totally, the idea of being separate from your life for that long made no sense to me. A week, you know, and even then that was challenging. But he was adamant that we go, he was adamant that he plan it, and he was adamant that I give him the time he felt that that type of vacation deserved. And I said, but you're crazy, I have a million things going on. I'm designing products and I have work and I have my design firm and all this stuff. And he said, I don't care.

Figure it out, but we're not going mm-hmm this trip requires at least three weeks So that's what I need from you, and then I'll take care of everything else. I'll figure it out. I

And I said, "Okay." So the trip was Thailand and then Cambodia and then to Sri Lanka where we would tour a little bit the larger cities and then end at the beach. Were you in your second week, first week? Second week. End of the second week. Okay. And being there with him was magical because he was magical. And we were magic together. And we knew it, which is another thing to have to be functioning on that level.

And it was so incredible just how connected we were the whole time. And when we came... Oh, I wish that for everybody. I do too. Yeah. I do too. Yeah. It was... Because that is the thing that matters. That's really where it all stems from. Yeah. It really is. So we went to Sri Lanka and he had been there before 12 years prior. Yeah. As a photographer's assistant, he wanted me to see what he had seen. And like most places that you go back to...

It's never what you remember. And then I remember saying to him, "Relax. Like, I'm here with you. I'd rather be here with you than doing anything in the world. I don't care that there's smog or that the traffic is noisy or that it takes forever to get... or this hotel isn't... Who cares? We're together. That's the only thing that matters." And from that moment on, he was much better. And then we went to the seashore. And we actually...

asked the mayor of the town, the small town, if he could tell us the names and the ages of the children for the 10 poorest families because there was a small main street and I thought, you know what, we have nothing to do. I always believe that you should leave a place better than you found it no matter where you go. And we assembled backpacks for the kids. He gave us the name with the list.

So the night before the tsunami... This is the night before the tsunami. The two of you are putting together these handmade backpacks... Right. ...with school supplies. School supplies, and we were trying to be really thoughtful. We bought fabric. Cloth, fabric. Yeah, so that the kids could sew their own clothes, the parents could sew their clothes, and it would last for longer. And you were just doing this because you wanted to give something back to them. Yeah, it was a beautiful place with beautiful people in many ways. And it's Christmas. And it's Christmas, and we thought, you know, we should leave this place better than how we found it.

And that was my first memory of the tsunami hitting, was the sound first and then laying in bed and seeing the backpacks

seeing the water come into our little shack and seeing the backpack start to swirl all over the place. And that was the first thing that the tsunami took, were those backpacks. And when you're in the middle of it, your brain doesn't have time to calculate where am I, what's going on. Nothing. Your brain just calculates, let me get the next breath. Breathe. Yeah, breathe. Just breathe. And it's, you know, having been, I guess, almost dead,

and fighting to survive in that moment, that is really all you care about is taking that next breath at any expense. Nothing flashed before me. I wasn't conscious of the fact that I was gonna die. I wasn't thinking, oh no, I am going to die. I was just thinking I need air and I don't have it. Breathe. Look for the light 'cause it was 9:30 in the morning. Swim towards the light when you can.

which you could and it just popped you up when the force of the sea wanted you to. But if I could get to the light, I thought I can breathe and that was all I could focus on.

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Join their 19 million customers today at Empower.com. Not an Empower client paid or sponsored. I remember back in 2005 when you were on the show talking about this for the first time. And when you see this tape of yourself, I mean, you're kind of, you're still not really fully there. And what struck me at the time, you were talking about being in the water and all the other things swirling by you.

and, you know, huge objects. And I remember hearing about that pole, that telephone pole, and you're speeding toward the telephone pole. And then all of a sudden, a mattress floats in the water and... And just floated in between Fernando and me. We were heading towards this telephone pole at probably 40 miles an hour was the speed of the water with the two of us in it. And...

And I thought we need to grab that pole, but it's going to kill us. What if we hit our heads on the pole? There were iron spikes coming out of it that people could climb up. The water level was probably 12 feet at this point. And then I realized that there were electrical wires and I thought we'll be electrocuted. And I'm thinking all of this while he's next to me and we're going 40 miles an hour towards it. And I thought we're just going to have to grab it. Whether the impact hurts us or not, we're just going to have to grab it so that we can stop moving. And that

A twin size mattress just came in between us and it just went like this around the pole. And we ran into the mattress. Instead of the pole. Instead of the pole. Isn't that... How does that happen? Well, you know how that happens. Right. Yeah. And then you held on. We held on. And I asked Vernetta, I remember asking him, what was that?

Meaning the whole tsunami and he said I don't know and I could you hear each other because oh, yeah We were talking now. We're on the mattress now. We're good. Yeah comparatively. I mean, we're not drowning we can breathe We're in the Sun everything's floating past us, but we're together and we're able to have a conversation And I said what was that and he said I don't know but it's over now I don't and I said but what was it and he said I

Don't know maybe a tidal wave. I'm not sure but are you okay? And I said yes, and he said are you okay? And I said I am but I'm now I'm scared like now that I can see what's going on I'm really scared you can see people screaming from the rooftop everything and you could see the devastation and babies floating by I mean, there's no Getting that out of your head the fact that I can function after witnessing that

is a testament to the love and the support that I had when I got back. Period. The end. But we're looking around, we're noticing the devastation, we're noticing the death, we're noticing the injuries and the people floating in the water and the animals and everything. And he said, it's over. It's over.

And then the water changed direction. Wow. And as fast as the water came in over land, it's as fast as the water drew out. So all of a sudden we were ripped off the pole again and drowning again. And in that same experience that we just had survived a second time,

And I felt him hang on to the waistband of my underwear. And then I felt him be torn away. And that was the last that I saw him. The last that you felt him? The felt him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And you still wear his bracelet today. I do. This is from a tribe in the Amazon in Brazil. And it's hand-woven in the jungle. And it's one thing, so you don't take it on and off when you shower. You stretch it and put it on. And I've worn it because when I first met him, he asked me if I wanted one because he was wearing one.

And I said, sure. And he said, I found this at a store in Rio. There's only one store in the world that sells these. But if you put it on, you can never take it off. So you have to promise me you'll never take it off. Wow. And I said, okay. And he said, really though? I mean, I know you like style and it may not be your style and you have to wear it with a tuxedo and you have to wear it all the time, but you can never take it off. Do you make, do you promise? And I said, I promise. So here it is. Was that kind of like you all getting married?

It's like getting a ring. Yeah, I mean it was very early on, which is very typical of Fernando. We were dating probably three weeks before I asked about it on him and then he said, "Do you want one?" Had he not always spoken of not living past 40? He always did. He always did. I don't know. I mean, Fernando always said that he couldn't envision himself living past 40.

that he just couldn't see himself aging, he couldn't see himself growing older. And he talked about the future, we talked about the future all the time, but he sort of, I guess, knew on some level. He must have known. And he was vain, and he wouldn't have wanted to be seen, and he was never seen again. I know that he wouldn't have wanted to be seen. He wouldn't have wanted his body to be exhumed from the sea. He wouldn't have wanted a funeral. He wouldn't have wanted any of those things, and he didn't get them.

He just disappeared. He just disappeared by one of the greatest natural disasters the world had ever known. Was the force that took him out at 39 years old. Spiritually, how did you come back and put the pieces together for yourself? I mean, that is obviously a physical tsunami, but the devastation to your own psyche has got to be equally as enormous.

So a few things happened that made sense to me. One, that I was there to witness Fernando disappearing because I felt that that gave me a lot of strength when I came home because I have always been a very visual person and I needed to see what that tsunami really was

in order to accept truly accept that he was gone i would never have accepted it about it if i heard about it on the phone or saw it on the news or if he had been on location there and i had been in new york or chicago or wherever and somebody called just like my family was called and said nate was in the tsunami had i not survived i don't know how my family my my

the people closest to me would have been able to envision the force of what took me away. And I was grateful that I was there because the focus for me when I came home was on the loss of him, not what I had seen and what I had gone through. I was able to grieve for him

which was terrifying because I'd never, never lost a grandparent at that point. I had never had anyone close to me die and here was the love of my life who's disappeared. But I was able to understand how he disappeared and that somehow was, made it more manageable for me that I had borne witness that I had gone through it myself. Which as you're saying that makes me feel for all the people

who don't know where their... You get the phone call. You get the phone call, and they don't know how it happened or where it happened, like in the cases of murder, a lost child gone forever. Armed forces. Yes, yes. I mean, how many people missing with no one that witnessed their disappearance. I mean, how many families have gotten that phone call, just like Fernanda's mother did. And the rest of Fernanda's family. So the witnessing actually in the end became a comfort. The witnessing was a gift. Was a gift. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

The idea of having my eyes opened to what other people had gone through, what suffering really felt like, was also a gift.

because it made me a better person. It made me a more compassionate person. I no longer could stand in line at the drugstore and just ignore everyone around me. For the first time, I started thinking, "What has that woman behind me gone through? What have they been through in their lives?" We're not protected anymore. I felt raw, and I felt really open to what-- I felt really insignificant, and I felt afraid, very, very afraid.

for myself, would I ever become normal? And you came over, I remember, about three days after I came home and I was in my bed. And I asked you why. I wanted you to tell me why. I know, sorry. Let me answer that for your life. So that was a comfortable moment. Well, you were Oprah. I was like, listen, my mother doesn't know, my father doesn't know. But I mean, I remember saying, you know, why? Why did this happen? Why? And I remember how you answered it. And you said to me,

When the soul gets what it came to get, it goes. Someone told me that once. Somebody told you that once and you gave that to me and that made sense. Because here was a person who never felt like he had a home. Who had left Argentina to live in Brazil, who had traveled around the globe, who truly never had established his own family and life on his own terms.

And all of a sudden, I was home to him. I represented home, metaphysically, physically, everything. And he had gotten what he had come to get by being with me. I really believe that.

And so it made sense to me that that's what his soul needed and that was the final thing. But when you're in that moment and for everybody who's going through it or has been through it, it's hard to hear it because you're just like, why? I needed to hear it. I needed to hear anything. I mean, I remember I was reading everything about loss. I just started to look at life in a different way.

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I would like to say this or ask this for you because this is what I believe that for me is

All death is a reminder to turn up the volume on your life. Right. That's what all souls coming into the world and leaving the world, those who are born and those who are leaving are saying, better get with it. Yep. Better turn up the volume. Better turn up the volume. Well, that's for me what came to pass with his death. I knew that I had two choices. I could mourn his death and I could stay at home and I could be...

Sort of a recluse and I could I could stay stuck in that grief or I could choose to honor how loudly he lived his life That's right by doing everything that came my way. Yes that felt like living Because otherwise there really would have been two tragedies right that that that to me was you stay in one then that's right Then I'm not living my life for the what what's the point of surviving and because you'd said that he showed you a bigger life than you'd ever dreamed of for yourself now it's about

His passing is about get on and live it. I showed you. I came here. I opened that door for you. Do it. Walk through that door. And it doesn't matter if I'm not by your side. Because I am in some way, obviously. But I can't be there for you. But I've given you what you needed to know that you can do it. So go do it. Go do it.

And have you? I did. I am. And you are. I am. You know what's interesting about this, Nate? I think everybody thinks, particularly who's gone through a tragic experience, and you survived and others don't. And over the years, I talked to so many people in plane crashes or car crashes and like, why me? And people often say, you know, there must have been a reason. There must have been a reason.

You know what my answer to that is? Every day is the reason. Right. Exactly. It's not like one big thing you were left to do and that person is now snatched. Exactly. Yeah. It's every day. It's all the little things. Yeah. Every little moment stitched together. Turn up the volume. Turn up the volume. It's every time you answer the phone and a friend needs you. It's every time you...

create something beautiful and someone gets joy out of it. It's every time you make coffee for somebody in the morning because they really want it. It's not, it is about every day and there isn't anything noble about it. I just survived, no one else, a lot of people didn't. But what would have been a tragedy for me would have been to have been given the gift of survival

and the skill set to understand or at least come to some level of understanding about why this happened to me and just choose to waste that. And to waste it. Your home is still filled with mementos, right? And treasures from your life with Fernando. How does one strike a balance because

I've obviously done shows with people who are still holding on. I remember that show I did with a woman who hadn't changed her daughter's room in 10 years, you know? It happens all the time. You went through that where you didn't want to change anything until one day you woke up and said... It was ridiculous. I mean, for me, I think grieving is... People have to go through it at their own pace. I don't believe in shrines.

I never have. I have objects and things that obviously remind me of Fernando, remind me of my grandparents, remind me of anyone who's passed on in my home. But they're there because they give me joy. They don't make me sad. And I think the distinction is, is that when you leave a space untouched in honor of somebody who's no longer here to enjoy it,

then you're not honoring yourself and you're not moving forward in a way that's healthy for you. You're living still in the past. What you have to come to terms with, and this is why I think everybody needs their own timeline for this, is that you have to come to terms with that you are living a new normal.

your new normal has nothing to do with what it was when that person was alive. I think the most important thing that you said here, and I think I actually remember saying to you that your life is not going to be the same. You have to create a new normal.

And most people are trying to hold on when they have the things, they're holding on to wanting the life to be what it was. What it was and never will be. Never will be. And one of the greatest spiritual lessons I've learned from everybody who's sat in this chair, whether it's Eckhart Tolle or Deepak Chopra or whoever. Or me. Or you. Or you. Or Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, or Nate. Or Nate. Yeah.

is that and you just said it is that when you are resisting the reality of what is that is where all of your suffering comes from you're wanting the moment

The time to be something that it can't be is what causes you the suffering. Absolutely. And your ability to transcend and accept that that is gone and now I must move on and create a new normal is the real great spiritual lesson, no matter what it is you're going through. So what is your new normal now?

My new normal is, you know, it's a very normal life. I have my work, which is very fulfilling to me. You know, the creativity is still kind of going through me, and I know that I'm doing what I should be doing right now, and it feels good. It feels good to be here talking about something I created. It feels good to be behind what I'm doing now, a thousand percent. But it's also, you know...

There's relationships that come in and out. There's friendships that have tension, tension among the relationships in my family, just like anyone. And I think hopefully what I bring to it is the desire to...

resolve things even in a way that allows everyone some joy and some happiness around me because I know for a fact that we don't know how long we have here. Yeah, you've lived it. I've lived it. You've lived it. And what are the things that matter to you? People, number one. Truly number one. I've never been more inspired than by someone's personality, ever. It's always a starting point for me with any project, with any friendship.

with any great evening, that moment when you connect to somebody and you just adore how they present themselves and what they have to say. And people are really inspiring to me and they matter. And animals matter, dogs matter.

-Dogs matter. -Dogs matter. Never underestimate the dog people. -But the, um... -That could be your next book. -"Dogs matter." -Dogs matter. And dogs matter. Um, and I think being able to be a good boyfriend, a good son, um, to try and be a good friend, to try and maintain, um,

what sort of a standard of joy and of happiness and of optimism and not to let my light dim. That matters to me a lot. And I think what matters for me is time and being happy. - And being happy. - And that's it. - Finish the sentence. The world needs. - Kindness. - I believe in. - Love. - I'm grateful for. - For having survived. - Having survived.

Where do you feel most at home or at peace? In my home. I better be. That's what I stand for. But I really do. There's nothing that feels better to me than being at home. In what room? Usually the TV room, the family room. But I love waking up in my bed, too. Oh, yeah. I love it. I love it. Crave it. Could you say that you are comfortable and feel at home in every room in your house? Oh, absolutely. Every space.

PERSON OR RELIGIOUS PERSON? SPIRITUAL. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? I GREW UP IN A VERY TRADITIONAL JEWISH CULTURE AND RELIGION BUT RELIGION WASN'T AS IMPORTANT AS THE CULTURAL THINGS AROUND IT AND I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT I WAS

For me, I guess, defining being more spiritual than religious means that I'm not tied to the religion that I was raised with. I can find my spirituality in anything. And I think I do. I find it in my work and I find it in other people and I find it in teachings from other religions. What's your greatest fear? My greatest fear used to be being alone. And I think my greatest fear now would be losing the people that I love, which will happen.

So it's sort of a funny thing to fear when you know it will happen. What is the best piece of advice you've ever gotten? Best piece of advice. Okay, so you need to settle something with me with this because I quote you as saying this, but you quote somebody else. I don't know where this came from. Okay. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Maya Angelou. Thank you. What is your secret strength?

I think my secret strength is my ability to survive and my perspective. Because when you have the perspective that I have on life, you can really navigate it in a way that is effective. When you're not-- when the worst has already happened and you're not afraid to speak your truth, you get a lot done. - Thank you. - Thank you. This was great, Nate. - Fun. - This is great. Thank you.

I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

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