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What's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I am Dave Smith. Very excited for today's episode. Before we get started, I am, as I record this tomorrow morning, but as you hear this this morning, perhaps, on my way out to Austin. Hope to see a bunch of you guys at the Comedy Mothership this week. And then I am touring for the rest of the year. So go to ComicDaveSmith.com if you want to get tickets. I'm coming all over the place. All right.
Very happy to be joined today by I believe the first time. Is this the first time we've had you on, Brian? First time, man. I know. Crazy. Yeah, I was trying my best to avoid it, but eventually I couldn't fight it. Brian McWilliams. He is, of course, a longtime host of the Lions of Liberty podcast, and he is the communications director for the Libertarian Party and a longtime friend. How are you, sir?
I'm pretty good, man. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be on this show because you're teasing this massive announcement coming on Monday, which I have to presume. So I saw Luis Gomez also, Luis J. Gomez, also tweeted out this announcement about you and part of the problem in Gas Digital, which makes me think it must be the addition of a female co-host that he can sexually molest or intimidate. Well, you're close. Rob is transitioning. And so there will be... I didn't...
We don't need to save it for Monday, guys. Well, I mean, I was trying to save it. It's your show. Roberta Bernstein will be going. But no, we do have a big announcement. In fact, after this show, I will be recording the announcement because I'm going to be gone and we're supposed to be announcing it. But, yep, major announcement on the future of part of the problem. I am quitting.
I've done what I need to do. We got Joe Biden over the finish line and now we move on to to bigger tasks. So but let me ask you and we'll talk a bunch about the Libertarian Party and stuff. But I'm just curious, just as a person existing in the world, because it's all everyone's been talking about for the last couple of weeks now. What do you what's your take on all this post-Trump?
First presidential debate fallout and the media switching on a dime. And now, man, I mean, I was just looking at more of it this morning. Man, the knives are out for Joe Biden. It's amazing how quickly everything changes. I mean, what's awesome to me is seeing people like George Clooney, right? Clooney just had this massive fundraiser, raised $30 million for Joe Biden, and now is like, get out, Joe.
Get like New York Times. Get out, Joe. You're done. You're toast. Like there is no allegiance. Like it makes you really see clearly that these people will cycle you through. You mean nothing. And Joe Biden, like the puppets falling off the strings. Right. That's what it is. They had him on the puppetry. They propped the man up when he shouldn't have been. They got him into office and he was a loyal soldier. And now he's not going along with the plan. So clearly they're looking at the puppet.
The puppets... You know, it's like the same thing. You've got a little marionette here. The puppet's talking on its own, like a creepy Twilight Zone episode, and it's time to replace him. So, I mean...
In the wake of this, I'm excited to see what happened tonight. Like we're talking Thursday. He's going to talk at the NATO summit. I think that's going to be the definitive moment. If he collapses, if he if he has a flub, if he looks like the Joe Biden we know he is, I think then you're going to see the pressure mount to the point where he has to get out. But I don't know if you saw he just had this letter, open letter to the DNC and congressional members that are Democrats essentially saying, I am going to poison pill you.
Like, I'm not leaving. I'm going to take you all down with me. You're hypocrites. You're undermining democracy. If you take me out, you're everything that you said you weren't. So, I mean, that's what's interesting to me is Joe Biden essentially saying, look, I'm taking you all down with me. Yeah, that it's so fascinating. And part of it is because you get a little bit of a window into like the actual power plays. Like, how does this how does this really go down when different factions have power?
staunchly different desires. And so to the point you made for anybody who hasn't followed it. So George Clooney is known for being like close friends with Barack Obama. And it was reported that he contacted Obama, like he got Obama's
to write this op-ed saying that Joe Biden needs to step down. So already, first off, he was just at a fundraiser for him, as you mentioned. Now he's calling for him to step down. But the bigger implication there is like, oh, Obama is, you know, pulling out the big guns against him. And you realize that, look, the business interests...
That, you know, like the real power centers in America, the military industrial complex and Wall Street and big pharma and all of this, they don't want Trump in, but they don't care if Joe Biden's they just want whoever will beat Donald Trump. And so as soon as they see Biden's not going to be able to beat Donald Trump, the knives are out. However, to your point.
Biden has clearly signaled he's going to fight this thing. And it does make you wonder, even for a man who has lost, who has fallen from the level of mediocre intelligence that Joe Biden started at, the guy has been around for 40 plus years.
What type of dirt does he have on other people? You know, like what you would imagine to survive in that world, you must be doing what you can to protect yourself. And so, man, that adds an interesting wrinkle into all of this. Oh, absolutely. You know, it's funny just speaking of like, who's got the dirt on who I'm looking at. This is tangential, but you see Alex Soros, George Soros, his son is now engaged to Huma Abedin famous, you know, wiener mistress and Hillary Clinton aid for a long time. I'm wondering,
I'm wondering who's got the keys to the sex dungeon in Epstein Island in that relationship. Like one of them has the keys for sure, because there's no way they end up together. He's marrying this like worn out ex-wiener lady. Anyway, but yeah, I mean, Biden's got he must have so much dirt. He must have so much power. I mean, like you said, 40 years in there. It's not just how much dirt he has on people, I think, but it's also how many different relationships are tied into the business dealings, because I 100 percent believe he's corrupt.
I mean, there's zero question in my mind. So again, if he's saying, I'm going to blow the DNC up, I'm going to take you down. How much communication, how much backdoor dealing, how many different, you know, insider stock trading tips now that they're not allowed to trade stocks anymore, but how many tips is he going to release? And I guess the question is, will he remember? I mean, you know, there's also that question. He might just, he can just make stuff up and people will be like, all right,
Well, the thing is that Biden is fighting a losing fight. It's a fight that you can't win. Now, could he bring other people down with him? Theoretically, sure. But the problem is that like once like the whole if you go back and read the emperor's new clothes, the whole game is you have to be denying it. Like once a conversation has started about is the emperor wearing clothes or not, you've already lost. Yeah.
The whole point is that everyone has to be in lockstep denial. And so once we're having this conversation now, every senior moment he has is under the microscope. And also just who look, forget even let's just say he wasn't senile.
Who could survive the story being that for the months leading up to election day, everyone was questioning whether you were even fit to serve. Yeah. Everyone in your own political party questioning whether can we get anyone else in? We're so desperate for it to be anyone else other than you. It's just this is the kiss of death. But it's going to be fun. I will say if you follow Joe Biden's entire career, this is the send off he deserves.
Absolutely, man. It's reap what you sow time. Like I'm, I'm enjoying every second of it. And also it's funny too. Like you said, they're going to magnify everything, no matter what, even if the, if the media now, if they want him to stay in the race because they were so complicit in hiding it all this time. And you saw those op-eds like, Oh,
Oh, we didn't know. Oh, how are we supposed... They fooled us too. Now they have to go extra hard to maintain any credibility on really amplifying every little screw-up he makes. No, that's a great point. It's the same. I made the comparison before, but it's like Harvey Weinstein in Hollywood. It's like, well, at the next Oscars, they all got to be talking about Me Too and all this shit. Like, they got to go really, really hard. And so, yeah, you're right about that. It's a weird...
I'll be great at the Oscars. Everybody goes up and next time, instead of the B2, everybody's really harping on like elder abuse and recognizing Parkinson's early on every speech. Yeah, I mean, that might be it. So how long have you been a member of the Libertarian Party? I think for a while, right?
Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, I, I wasn't a member until, you know, there was a time when you joined, I joined, Tom joined. I mean, Pete Quinonez, uh, joined, we all kind of joined up at the same time and it was to move them, you know, move Mises caucus forward to kind of get involved, take the party, which we did. And so I've been down there basically as long as you, um, cause Mark, Mark Clare, who used to be at the lions of Liberty with you, um,
Current Florida man, former Lion of Liberty. Florida man, former libertarian, Mark Clare. He was, he, I believe, had been in longer. So then I was curious, I wasn't sure if you had been or not. So you joined around the time I did. Yeah, I joined around the time you did. Yeah, exactly. I think John Odermatt may have been in a little bit earlier because he was working in Pennsylvania to try to boost some candidates up in the party. But yeah, it was, yeah, 2018. So it is, it is wild. I'm sure you've taken stock of this as I have, that you,
You know, 2018 was like not that long ago, but it is amazing what a different world we are living in in 2024 compared to 2018. You know, and 2018 felt pretty nuts.
But this is before covid, before Biden, before any of this stuff. It's kind of like watching now the state of politics with with Bobby Kennedy running this year, with all the stuff that's happening with, of course, Chase Oliver being the libertarian nominee. What's I don't know, just broad strokes themes like how do you feel about how things have changed where we are now?
Well, not great. Not great. I mean, and by the way, I will tell you, best decision you ever made was not running. I have a loudly defended decision not to run. Not only just well, because honestly, look at this way, man. Once Kennedy entered the race and I've talked to Angel about this, like once Kennedy got in the race, you running would have been a waste of time and talent.
Period. Because you could move the bar forward and stars like getting messaging out there. But he's taking so many votes off the table that would normally go to, say, a libertarian candidate. It would have been a waste of your time. I would rather you if you ever have an interest, keep your powder dry so that you actually have a decent run at it where you don't have this competition pulling it off to the sides. So I'll say I'll say this. And this is kind of in some ways against my interest.
to say this, or I shouldn't say against my interest, but against like, say like the narrative that would be easier for me, because what's going to happen is that Chase Oliver is going to get a very low vote total. And it would be...
The easiest thing for me would be to take that and go, see, this is why you can't run woke libertarians because look how much of a disaster it is or blah. But the truth is that had Rechtenwald won, it would have been the same situation. And then other woke libertarians would have said, see, this is why you can't run a guy like that. The truth is that once RFK...
joined in whoever the libertarian nominee was, was going to get a much lower vote total than Gary Johnson. And I think even then, then Joe Jorgensen and it would have been right. This is not the reason I didn't run, but it would have been right for anyone to say, see proof that this is a failure. And so that is the obstacle when you've got another, another third party in there, just the way it is.
And that's what the Mises caucus haters, and there's many of them out there, they're loud on Twitter. That's what they'll say after Chase fails. They'll say, well, this is because of failure in leadership. But anyway, to your question earlier, yeah, things are horrible, man. It's unbelievably...
More difficult to get any messaging out. I think we've gotten crazier. We've gotten so much more polarized. I mean, I do blame social media for a lot of that government censorship. I blame for a lot of it. The polarization of Facebook and the way the algorithms are set up. I blame for a lot of it. But yeah, things have gotten definitively worse.
And what drives me crazy is that things have gotten so much worse, observably. Like I live in L.A., right? It's a garbage shithole, right? And it used to be a little bit worse. But the homelessness problem, the cost of living, the immigration issues, these are so profound and every Angeleno can see them on the street corners. And yet the bar is not really moving that much. That's what's kind of driving me most insane about this.
Because if you see things observably and we're talking like in the UK, labor just had this massive victory, overwhelming victory despite crime and violence. In France, these idiots are in the street. These leftist morons are in the street.
cheering and granted, some of them were very hot in the videos I saw. Really prime, gorgeous pieces of ass, but they're in the streets loudly saying that they've defeated fascism. And it's like, you just got gamed by a coup of elites.
Right. I mean, literally, you had elites in France drop 200 candidates out to consolidate power behind a few candidates and manipulate your process. And you're out there cheering it on, despite the fact that you have 100,000, you know, not 100,000, whatever, 50,000 immigrants coming in, you know, fighting age men from Africa that are not acculturating, that are on every street corner, that are causing homelessness and crime and violence. And yet these people are voting the same way.
That's what's driving me insane about the overarching narrative of politics is it doesn't seem to matter how bad things get. People still are voting the same way.
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Let's get back into the show. You know, one of the things that's interesting in our in our libertarian world about this is that libertarianism libertarians, I should say, probably emphasize theory more than any other group of of politically active people. I mean, even like like there's.
socialists and stuff like that who emphasize their own theory. Obviously, we think their theory is wildly flawed, but even they are not committed in the way that libertarians are to like not break these principles and stand up for this way of thinking. And one of the things that's been kind of eye opening to me that I've learned a lot from in the liberty movement over the last few years is how people
How much the gap of what theory does not
And it makes you wonder, you know, like, can this old, the kind of Ron Paul coalition ever be really recreated under these? Like, for example, you have some, there were some people in the Libertarian Party who, there's been a lot of people who split off in different directions, but there are people who went and are supporting Biden now. One of the guys in the classical liberal caucus who was like the anti-Mises guy is now supporting Biden now.
And to me, it's like, look, I can understand an argument for supporting Chase.
I can understand an argument for supporting Trump. I can understand an argument for supporting RFK. There's no conceivable argument I could get for let's support the deep state candidate. Like let's support the establishment candidate. And there is something where even though a lot of those people and us, we would agree on guns and taxes and money and foreign policy and not all of them, but with a lot of them,
You're still like, wait, what are you missing here? That you would actually like, like how much have you internalized this propaganda that you actually think you're supposed to be on the side of the CIA? Like that's who you would fall down on this. Like, were you, you're celebrating that like Trump was framed for treason or Trump was kicked off of Twitter or something like that. You're like, do you, how much have you been duped by this? It's not even a question of like whether you're a,
like the things we used to all think we used to all think the question was how pure of a libertarian are you how radical of a libertarian are you the more pressing question in 2024 is like do you get it do you get it at all if there if there was like a right winger who might be really bad on a lot of different policies like that i completely disagree with them about they essentially
whether they realize it or not, they, they are fine with the status quo of central banking and the IRS and things like this. But if they hate the fucking establishment and see them as like corrupt monsters, I think I'm more likely to be aligned with you than I am to be aligned with, uh,
a libertarian who would go to Biden after a libertarian who would say, yeah, look, I don't believe in mask mandates, but I do think you should wear a mask. I don't believe in vaccine mandates, but I do think you should get the vaccine. I'm more aligned with that right winger, even if even if in theory, me and you probably have more common ground, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. Well, I mean, it's like you're saying, it's been astounding to see that
That shift, and I'm trying to figure out what the base cause of that is. I mean, I don't know if it's just a it comes down to those base issues that people have of like, you know, LGBTQ stuff or anti-racism. Like, remember, we took the plank out about anti-bigotry. That apparently was such a big schism in the party that, you know, the classic liberal caucus that you're talking about. I'm not going to say the guy's name. I know exactly you're talking about and I hate him so much. I don't want to promote him. But.
that drove people insane to the point where, to your point, there is no overlap. They abandoned all the, all the basic philosophy and underpinnings of libertarianism. But that kind of ties into something that I've been thinking about, uh,
that the party needs to do, right? And it's because, as you said, there's people that all we really want is core values of like hate the state, shrink the government, you know, rein in the deep state. These are basic core aspects, like personal property values, making sure people have the most freedom possible.
If we can get people to buy into those core concepts, to your point, I don't really care about a lot of the other fringe stuff they might believe. Like, I really want to, as a goal, create what I call shitty libertarians. Like, that's really my goal with the party. And I know it sounds ridiculous, but I really want to create shitty libertarians for a couple of different reasons, because number one, I think it's the only way we're going to have power. If you think about this, you need people in mass like.
Look at the Democrats and who votes for them. They believe in a couple of core issues and they let them get away with murder. They let them get away with abusing them, with power plays, with swapping candidates out, with inflationary processes, with denying, you know, everything possible that's scummy on the underside of things. They ignore because they're fighting for, quote, women's rights or anti-racist rights, whatever it might be.
These people are are helpful idiots. Now, I'm not saying libertarians need to be idiots. We want to get higher quality people than that. But really, I just want people that check in to vote, that believe in reigning in the state, that live in some core principles and believe in the overarching vision of what we can deliver. But you have to promise something to do that. Right. You have to give people a concept to believe in that says your life's going to be better under libertarianism. And that's one thing that we don't do right now.
And I think that we lose so many people based on that fact who are driven out by the people that do understand the philosophy far too well. I mean, think about the number of libertarians who are just they've read every book. They're just, you know, these purist assholes who cannot get on board like you and me. We see eye to eye on the border issue.
Right. How the welfare state and the border issue, they can't. I remember talking about this. In fact, I remember me and you did. What was the show? Libertarians drinking liquor in their living room or whatever. And we're all just this was must have been in 2016 or 2017 or something like that. And it was like it was when I was 14.
first really starting to turn on the immigration issue and we were like talking it through and it was like it was like this interesting conversation like all right guys like we're libertarians and we hate the government here like does anyone else notice that the biggest statists amongst us seem to love this plan of like unfettered immigration like that's kind of weird do we have to cheer on their plans you know what i mean like just like on a very basic level shouldn't we be against this then
Yeah, exactly, man. But it's like, but it's stuff like that. Yeah, we have so many, like how much pushback do you get every time you do an episode talking about the border issue from, you know, principled libertarians? They are, in fact, while they're useful in some aspects, I'm sorry, holding the party back.
Like they are absolutely holding the party back because you can't expand on issues. And that dyed in the wool philosophical, quote unquote, based aspect is good in some ways, but it's really going to limit you to, you know, autists and one to three percent of the vote. And that's what we got. Well, I'll tell you, you know, because I am because I'm as a libertarian, you know, I'm essentially a day walker.
Like I'm, I'm half Autist too. You know what I mean? But then I can go mix it up with the normals. And so I'm, there's a reason why, and this was even back when I was planning on running, I, I intentionally picked this fight.
And part of it, I will say 50% of it is because I'm one of you. And I actually, it irks me that I think those libertarians are getting the theory wrong. Like I don't think open borders are deduced from libertarian principles. And I don't think, I don't think like you can do whatever you want on public property is deduced from libertarian principles. Whatever, I've done several shows on this topic. But the other reason why I was just, when I was like, I guess I'm gonna have to lead this charge
I was like, look, we got to like have this out right now. Because again, if you're just thinking about like the coalition that libertarians could theoretically put together,
I think unlike in the Ron Paul days when Ron Paul was running for president in 2008, it's like, OK, well, this is we live in a different world than 2008. And in Ron Paul's coalition, I think you could have some open borders people and some more, you know, immigration restrictionist type people all be in the city. You know, what we really care about is this damn war and this the economy that just crashed and like all these things.
Today, if your starting point is like I'm for open borders and also I think in San Francisco or Los Angeles, that that is the homeless people's right to take a shit on the sidewalk. If that's your starting point,
There's just no coalition to be had. Your coalition is I don't even know. Listen, even when you say the one percent or something like that, it's not as if Gary Johnson or Joe Jorgensen were ever saying that out loud. If they said that out loud, I don't even think they could put that coalition together. You know, so it's like your your coalition is 36 people on Twitter, man. If you're seriously going to look the American people and look, even if I think the theory is wrong, even if you thought the theory was correct.
There's just kind of like this is reality. If you look any American in the face right now and tell them my plan is to immediately open the borders. Good luck. I mean, amongst Democrats. Good luck.
Good luck with that. The number one issue in America, it's economy and it's and it's immigration. That's it. So, yeah, it's a nonstarter. It's a nonstarter to begin with. But, you know, to the point of how do you reach people? Right. So you think about it this way. And this is what I was kind of teasing a little bit. We were chatting before the show. What we're working on with the Libertarian Party messaging.
you need to have those core issues, right? But explain them. So we do, you know, immigration is fine. You can't have a welfare state when you have that. But on top of it, I think you need to have this kind of religious fervor, right? You know, like I'm saying, you need to promise people more. For example, parental rights, right? Those are under attack, especially in California. They're trying to break people up, the LGBTQ stuff, the trans stuff, taking your kids out of the home if you don't use personal pronouns. There's a war in the family. Why does that exist? Okay, well, the party, we're going to promise to give you that family back.
We're going to promise to give you community back. We're going to, and what I mean by that is like, there's a war on just community interactions now. There's a war on an understanding of truth, promising that we're going to weigh in, you know, rein in the deep state, rein in censorship so you can actually understand the world around you.
These are issues that people, I think, don't realize that are going through the intellectual cycle at any given time. But you're seeing it play out in line in different ways. You're seeing it play out in the realities of how people interact, of where they understand the world and how they're realizing the lies are coming through. But as I mentioned, the problem and I want to get your take on this. Why do you think?
We're realizing this. So many people you talk to, especially after COVID, realize they've been lied to, but continuously vote the same way. I mean, what's your take on that? Because you asked me mine earlier, and I'm curious to hear what your take on this. Well, I mean, you know, there's probably a different answer for different groups. But the general theme is that, like, people are under spells. And they really are like, you know, the...
You know, like in The Matrix, when Neo is offered the blue pill or the red pill and then he chooses the red pill and then we get a whole movie. I just think there's a lot of people who take the blue pill when they're given that offer and then they go back to sleep and don't remember ever being offered the pill or whatever. And that's I think like that's what's brilliant about that movie. There's something to that that like people choose to like. I know I just saw that.
I would like to take the pill where I unsee it and go back and wake up as normal because it's just for most people who aren't like obsessed with this stuff the way we are there. They're like, this is just too much. If, if, if this is all bullshit, then I got to devote my whole life to like understanding what this bullshit is. But if it's not, I get to go back to just all the shit that I cared about doing. And so I really do think now that being said, I have over the last, uh,
um, four years or so, I have been flabbergasted by the ability of people to do this. And nothing to me was, was clearer than during COVID where you're like, dude, this is wrecking your life. This is wrecking your family's life. This is wrecking your city. This is wrecking. And so many millions of Americans would still just be like, yep, but it makes me feel better. Like I bought into it and I'd rather not admit I was wrong. Yeah, exactly. Well, okay. So perfect. Exactly. Exactly.
So tying into that, that's why I am changing the philosophy of how the party is rolling out. Because like you said, nobody wants to admit they're wrong. And everything we do right as libertarians from a party perspective, even from what we do, it's always complaining, bitching. We're going to take this down. We're going to tear it down. You've been lied to. You're a moron. This is not effective. I mean, you know, telling somebody they're a moron never works. It will never work, even if they're clearly.
clearly wrong. And you know, how many Twitter debates have you on? How many have I won? They, you never, they never are like, you know what? You're right, man. I'm going to, I'm going to join up tomorrow. It doesn't happen. So I stopped doing them for that reason. I mean, not like a, I'll still do debates and stuff, but I'm not doing debates with like random LP members anymore because it's like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't, I've proven that it doesn't matter how dominantly I win or how much your, your case collapses. It's like, you're just, I'm just going to make a lifelong enemy out of you. I don't need to do that. In the L,
And you're talking with people in the LP, not just random everyday schlubs off the street that don't even understand anything. So I think, okay, how are you going to do this? You have to take what people want. And then you have to say, all right, we have to change the narrative here to say, you're not wrong. You're not stupid. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to add on on top of it. You have to make a guarantee. And this is what we're bad at too. We never...
we'll put it like a balls on the table and be like, we're going to promise to make your life better because, you know, intellectually, we don't like to be liars. We're logical people. We're critical thinkers. Everything we do is kind of based in reality, right? Austrian economics. That's what we believe in is telling the truth and analyzing the marketplace as it exists.
But what we need to do and has to be done is to say, OK, what in our philosophy can we promise that can be extended into the future? You know, and it's easy to do that with like the Federal Reserve, with monetary value, with, you know, different different monetary measures, you know, Bitcoin in case the society collapses and our dollar's worth nothing.
ending the war state. Like there's so many things we can promise that can be better, but we've been either too pussified to do it or too, I don't know, philosophically based to do it where we feel like we're lying to people, but you have to do it. And on top of that, like we're talking about, people are, they take the pill and they don't want to look back.
I think you need to build, and I'm putting this in, you can call them parables if you want, but they are basically stories that people can read and remember. And one of them, I'll tell you, was inspired by a debate that you did with Moldbug. And...
The concept of this, this parable is called, you know, the stability of a million strings. And I remember before you guys were talking about like a basalt pillar and he was arguing that you have to have government to keep that pillar up. Right. Because people are pushing on both sides. I don't know if you remember this. I think his argument was like once the pillar is up.
it's fine to have no government, but when the pillar is all the way down, you need government force to push it back up. I, you know, it wasn't much of an argument. It was more of just a metaphor. But I, there was a lot thrown at me in that debate, but yes, I think, I think that's an accurate representation of his, his point. Close enough, close enough. But I took that and I'm like, okay, I wrote a parable about it, which is the parable of a million strings. But the concept is you can have no more stability. And this applies to the marketplace, right? This is what the metaphor for is,
you can have no greater stability than a pillar that is held up by a million different chains pulling on every single direction at all times, which is the marketplace, right? As soon as you start adjusting that and letting different people pull different ways, then you completely fuck the system.
So it's like, you know, giving people simple stuff to remember in that parable manner to inspire them to let them know that like this is the way and like diversification of risk, I think, is something we don't really harp about enough because our entire financial system is on the verge of collapse. Our military system, our entire world order is on the verge of collapse because we don't diversify risk anymore. We're in these massive conglomerated groups of states and economies and financial systems. And it's like it's
You know, giving people this belief that we can make the world better and safer is what we don't do well enough. And it has to be addressed. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Entera Skin Care. Their founder, Nick Andrews, is a biomedical engineer by training and a former pharmaceutical industry maven and an enjoyer of martial arts. He often found his skin worn and in bad shape after contact with the mats.
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All right, let's get back into the show. I also think that there's, you know, for whatever reason, the libertarianism as a philosophy attracts a lot of weirdos.
And we and you know, I don't like I don't begrudge them. I love libertarians like that's cool. You're into the same philosophy I'm into, you know. But there is something where weirdos have a tough time reaching normal people. And there's no even like and it doesn't seem, you know, Jordan Peterson had this thing back in the day that I always thought was was very wise. You've probably heard it, but where he would say like, well, OK, so like the communists claim that.
that they're motivated by helping the poor. It's like, okay, that's your claim. And then there's something very Austrian about this that he goes, well, let's, you know, it's kind of like demonstrated preference. Well, okay, let's examine that versus what you actually do. Are you motivated by helping the poor or are you motivated by hurting the rich?
Well, what did communism actually do? What did the communists actually do when given power? And then you kind of, and the libertarian version of that is that it's like, Hey, are you actually motivated by spreading these ideas, by seeing them implemented, by helping people, or are you motivated by feeling like you're superior to everybody else? Because you get a perfect a plus 100 plus five bonus points on your non-aggression principle test. Yeah.
that you give yourself. And one example that I saw, and this guy, his name was Mark, I believe. I saw this, I just had a brief interaction with him like months ago, where basically it was something like he was going like, hey, you know, like libertarians, I'm on board with like this whole program and I'm a member of the LP, but open borders is crazy to me, man. Like you got to have, and then he's just flooded with a bunch of people like, then get out,
You're not a real libertarian. And then I chimed in. I was like, just so you know, dude, you don't have to go anywhere because like so many of the best libertarian thinkers also rejected open borders and like a lot of people in the party do. And like so you don't have to like leave anywhere. And he was like, OK, cool. Thanks. I appreciate that. And it's like this weird thing where, look, man, it's not even –
It's not even that they would go have the common sense to go, OK, hey, this is a guy who's with us on everything else has an issue with one issue. Let's try to keep this guy around. We can't we'll never get anywhere if we kick everybody out who's like not perfect on every single issue. And then it was also the aspect that it's not like any of these people were trying to convince him.
It's not like any of them were going like, well, listen, let me break this down for you. You see like which. OK, like try try at least to make an argument. Well, the real problem here is the welfare. The real problem isn't the whatever the libertarian argument would be. But no one's even trying to convince them. They're just trying to pat themselves on the back like I'm completely pure and you're not. And that that whole thing is like cancer. It's like got to get removed. If you ever want to grow in any meaningful way, you have to abandon this idea that that
You have to abandon the fact that your primary motivator is feeling really good about yourself because that's actually pretty stupid. It makes no sense to feel really good about yourself because you, what, believe in a theory? Like, okay, even if it's the correct theory, so what? You got to do something before you can feel really good about yourself over it.
Well, that's the thing, right? It's like, again, going back to I want to create shitty libertarians. I'm sick of these principled people who will who all they do is attack. All they do is want to control. Like, I mean, look, dude, we were both at the convention. You see what happens there. You see these people that fight tooth and nail over this like tiny fiefdom. Right. And it's a tiny fiefdom that these people they hold sway over this party and it's all they care about. You know, it's granted autistic focus, but.
It's all they care about and being right in that little space. And they don't give a shit about actually impacting anybody. They don't give a shit about really impacting the world as long as they maintain their values. Like Jacob Hornberger, uh,
Former Mises caucus darling, what happened to that guy is crazy. And he is like the poster child. And, you know, Jacob's a nice enough guy, but poster child for irrelevance and attacking the party consistently now, vocally attacking the party on Twitter and in speeches and anything he can do to tear down the current leadership because he wants to be mired in irrelevance and principle. Yeah.
And it's and this is predominant in the party. I just if we can if we can sub half the people out for people that just have some rationality. Like I said, a base belief in freedom, liberty, reigning in the government that otherwise don't give a shit. We will be so much more powerful, so much more likable, so much more. The growth is exponentially possible, especially now. I mean, you have polls of like 60 percent of the population wants a third party.
desperately they see the corruption and they're like okay let me look at the libertarian party and have some asshole call me a fucking libtard because i disagree with you know the philosophy in one base point into your position not convince me in any way not make any rational argument that's going to make me think twice about looking at this party it's just going to piss me off yeah and and it's like
Yeah, man, it's unbelievable. I mean, personally, you know, from obviously like I'm a little biased and coming from my own perspective on this, but it would be something where like to like the amount of and look, it was a minority in the party for sure. But the people who just like still to this day just hate my guts, like within the Libertarian Party. And it's like, dude, listen, even if everything you say is true.
You're like, okay, so let's just say you're right and I'm wrong. So I'm bad on immigration and I'm bad on people...
jerking off in playgrounds or something like that or whatever like okay but like i'm good on everything else like even by your own standards like i'm good on everything else and oh hey i get on big shows and i say it in a compelling way and 90 percent of the time 99 percent of the time that i'm ever on like big platforms i'm almost never talking about immigration or homeless junkies shooting up on the street like that rarely comes up um
But so like, even that it's like, but the passion that they hate me with and, and many people in the Mises caucus, it's like, yeah, again, it's revealing. It's like, okay, so what you really care about is this fiefdom. Now, by the way, with the Jacob Hornberger stuff is I'm sure most of my audience isn't like super aware of this, but he, he,
I know he would accuse me if I said this of being like, oh, you're just ad hominem. You're not like not responding to the arguments. But I mean, the arguments are so deranged. There's nothing to respond to. Like it's like there is nothing. It's simply that people who are single, who don't have kids, a lot of them did not do well through covid.
And that's really my explanation to it. It's like, oh, man, dude, like solitary confinement was not good for people who did not have anybody in solitary. Well, I guess it wouldn't be solitary that who didn't have other people with them is not good for them. Anyway, I want to one of the things that you mentioned in there that I think is really worth expounding on is the idea of stories.
The idea of things that are going to sell to like a lot or potentially could sell to a large group of people. And there is, it's another thing that I think libertarians have to grapple with that. Look,
The Declaration of Independence is like the most beautiful document ever written. And I doubt you'd find too many libertarians who would have like a major problem with the Declaration of Independence. But there's a reason why it's not a treatise on Austrian economics. You know what I mean? There's a reason why they're not getting up there and going, you know, you know, we've I mean, obviously, they didn't know this at the time, but like we've figured out that
value is subjective and something, you know what I mean? It's like, look, is it actually self-evident that God thinks we have inalienable rights? Probably not. Okay. And I say this to somebody who does believe in God is, is it self-evident? No, you'd probably have to make an argument there. It's probably not just pretty obvious if you look at human, but it doesn't matter. That's how it starts off with that declaration. Cause that's something people can like that tugs at
your insides that like, you know, it's something that like pulls at your heart. And this is another thing that I think is really missing from libertarians understanding of how to interact with people. Okay. You're correct in theory. Okay. So now what? Well, that's pretty useless unless you can do something with it. And how do you do something with it? Well, you have to have something compelling to say to people and you have to think about what actually moves them. And most of the time, it's not the same thing that moves Liberty Twitter.
Well, and also, look, you're coming from a position of we have no power, right? Remind me, let's all acknowledge that we have no power. The only power we have might be thanks to Angela McArdle getting Donald Trump to commit to freeing Russell Rick and to putting a libertarian in his cabinet. That's the closest we've come to power ever. So, you know, let's think about that. When you have no power, your power is in manipulation. Your power is an inspiration. Your power is in storytelling and putting a little seed in people that can grow.
I mean, like you're saying, you have to make a philosophical jump. You have to make a belief jump to say, we're going to promise you this and we're going to deliver it. And you have to say it vociferously. You have to say it with conviction. And that's like what the website reflects now. What our entire premise has to be is to convince people that
that regardless of what they might see, right, that behind the scenes, this is happening. This is the future. This is the way the Democrats do this all the time. Look at what the Democrats promise, depending on what they deliver. It's pure trash. And yet people double, triple down. They will vote for Democrat. They'll never see the GOP. Same thing. We're going to return to the old days and you're going to have a wife in the kitchen and a one car. You're not going to get what bullshit. Now that's going to happen. You're still going to have guineas on your block.
It's just going to happen. None of this, it's all bullshit promises, but they put it in a way that is inspirational. And yeah, libertarian philosophy does not, I mean, nothing about our philosophy is promissory. Nothing about it is, if you think about it, inspirational. Like I was saying before, it's all very cut and dry. It's all tear it down. And people can't handle the shock mentally of that. This is another problem with, not to keep bragging on Hornberger, but
I used to be and you actually convinced me to be an anarchist. But, you know, there's believing in anarchy and saying we need to be anarchist. And then there's vocalizing, hey, if we take power, we are going to instantaneously tear everything down you've ever known.
fucking retarded. No one is going to believe it. Libertarians don't even want that. I don't want that. I'm sorry. I don't want my society to collapse on me, you know, instantly tomorrow. We all talk about mashing the button, but it's not a good idea to mash the button. And the button is imaginary anyway. It's all made up. The button doesn't exist. Right.
Exactly, exactly. So it's like you have to have this idea. But then also on a secondary level, we have to promise people a better future. But I do think there's something also to the concept of...
Look, what does happen if society collapses? Because all these other these different parties, they don't promise that, you know, they're just saying, look, things are going to go on forever. We keep spending money. We change this and that. But the American empire is going to continue. I think there's something to be said for the Libertarian Party taking the tact of this shit is not going to last. It's going to collapse. And we're trying to set you up to succeed when it fails. You ask me who's going to build the roads? Guess what? You
You're going to have to figure that out once society collapses, once the empire is completely in ruins, which is infinitely possible. And here we're going to give you the tools to succeed on your own. We're going to teach you how to do this. We're going to teach you how to govern. We're going to teach you how to think. We're going to give you the opportunity to have guns and grow your own fucking food and raise your children where you don't have to depend on the government for these things because it may not be there.
Yeah, it's been it's been interesting. I'm sure you've switching gears a little bit here. But, you know, we kind of talked about like how much has changed in the last few years. Obviously, we mentioned Mark Clare before, but he's certainly not the only one. There's been a lot of people who have come into the movement who have left the movement. I mean, certainly like I know a lot of people who found me during COVID and then kind of like came into the libertarian world through that.
Because, you know, libertarians were good or at least the good ones were not for the party platform. No, not necessarily. Yes. Yes. The old guard was not good on it. But what do you make of say like the people and I'm not even saying this describes Mark necessarily, but the people who have kind of moved to the hard right from who were in our world before that?
I think, like you were saying before, I think that there is there's two ways that COVID can break people's brains. And one of them is to force people to the hard right during COVID. You know, the Libertarian Party was not strong on it. They weren't people like us were, but we don't have power.
It's going back to my point about power. These people, I think, went harder to the right because during COVID, they had a crisis where they didn't have a job. They're having their livelihood taken away and they feel completely powerless to change it. And they go, OK, the Libertarian Party is not going to do anything to help me right now.
Maybe going with a hardcore GOP version is what has to be done to protect my freedoms and protect my liberties. And that's why I'm going to pivot to that position. And maybe I'm sacrificing some of my previously held beliefs here, but I'm looking at what works when the rubber hits the road. And I think that's a lot of it.
especially when you're in that isolated version. You know, some people went left and they said, you got to get vaccinated so I can go live my life. Other people went right and said, why is nobody stopping us? We got to kill the people who want me to be vaccinated. Right.
Yeah. But I mean, that that to me, it makes a lot of sense. It's just especially like burnout is so high in the libertarian world in general because of the frustration of of not being able to actually move the needle in any meaningful fashion. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would. I mean, that is a struggle of the hard right. Also, it's not as if they're they're moving the needle much more. But yeah, I get I get your point. It's been interesting to kind of watch. I also do think there's something interesting.
You know, if we're talking about the idea of something that could really catch fire, that could win a lot of people over, that has a potential to be a big movement. I do think there's something on I've noticed this dynamic for a long time, but there's something on the hard right where people get they get further and further into their own.
I guess you could call it an echo chamber or something like that. But where they do lose sense of the broader culture that you live in and what is feasibly possible within this, you know, like it's like you mentioned before, like this idea of like, you know, like the trad con thing is very popular today. And I do understand it as a response to the woke left. It's almost like guaranteed that this would happen. By the way, who's leading that? Is it women or men?
I mean, I know. I mean, honestly, I the feminists, they've ruined everything for themselves. I can't even the women. Yeah, they're all good. They're all the trad con influence. I see are all women. It's not it's there is something about like hardcore trad con women where they'll be saying something to you. And even if it's like a good point, you're like, OK, good point. Could we take this point to the kitchen? What are we doing? What are we doing out here with points? This is kind of the man's world.
Um, but well, I remember, um, okay. I remember talking to, uh, Christopher Cantwell in, I think it was 2017. Yes, it was 2017. He towards Cantwell. No, I think it was post. I think it was, I think it was immediately after like two weeks after or something like that. And I remember telling him, I might've been a few weeks before. I really, I'm not sure, but it was right around that time. Like he was, he was, had left. He was not a libertarian anymore. Um,
But I remember he said to me at one point and like I was just just kind of like starting to build my career for myself. I think I'd done Rogan for the first time and I'd done like some other big shows, but I didn't have nearly as many, you know, like the following that I have now. But he said to me at one point.
that he was like, he goes, you know, I really feel bad for you, Dave, because, you know, you're in a tough position here because you're a Jew, but, you know, you're a fairly honest one. And when the ethnostate comes, I'm not sure what's going to happen with you. But like, if I have anything to say about it, you'll be cool. Like you'll be allowed in or something like that. And I remember saying to him, and I said, you know,
you know, a tempered version of this. But I was like, are you out of your fucking mind? Like, what world are you living? You think you're about to achieve your ethnostate? And I mean, I didn't, I think I said like, Chris, the way I can see it, I'm setting up a pretty nice career for myself and you are certainly going to end up dead or in jail. Like that seems to be more, but-
He genuinely believed when he was saying it to me that it's like, no, dude, this is about to kick off and you're going to be in a weird situation. And I do think that while perhaps not that blatant, I do find a lot of this on the hard right where there is almost this they've.
they've bought so much into their own little world that they don't recognize how much dude, none of this will ever play with like broadly with Americans. It's just not going to happen. Like, what do you think? You think we're going to live in a Catholic theocracy? Yeah.
Why would Catholicism win that? What world are you living in? Like, it's just this is also it's as ridiculous as when libertarians think we're going to be in an anarchist society like tomorrow. You know, like, oh, my God, libertarians wake up if we can make things a little bit less worse in the next 20 years. That's phenomenal. That's way better than we're on pace to do right now.
Right, exactly. That's like, I mean, everyone needs to wake up. Everyone needs to wake up. I mean, like, well, the good news is for the first time, right, we've got Javier Millay, which some people still are still attacking for whatever else. But it's like kind of that same thing of like, look, guys,
Can you just shut the fuck up and just let the man work a little bit and let's just see how this plays out? Because if he's successful, and yeah, I'm not a fan of him saying he wants to join NATO, but if he's successful economically with what he's doing, we have now a case study to point to for the first time in history since the founding of America to say, look, we can unfuck this thing.
We can unfuck the system if we just give him a chance. So please stop tearing him down. But yeah, to your point, people get in their delusional psycho states. They, I mean, I don't know how people get to belief systems that they get to without any sort of check on reality. I mean, it really boggles my mind how people can achieve that because it's like we're saying, like looking around,
When observably you can see where the culture is moving, how the power players interact, what the corporate media can do to destroy you, take you out. And especially now with the whole deplatforming thing, if you were going to have an ethnostate, if you had anybody behind that, that they thought, look what happened to Marie Le Pen. She doesn't want an ethnostate. But as close as you're going to get in our modern society of getting an ethnostate was Marie Le Pen. And they completely undercut her by dropping 200 candidates out in prison.
there's zero possibility of it. Well, it's, I feel the same way about, um, uh, some of the people in the free state project, which by the, I still, to this day, I think the free state project is a great idea. And I think there's been like tangible successes from it. And I totally support anybody who wants to go participate in. And I think it's like, like a great strategy to embark on, but I will hear a lot of people, uh,
up there in New Hampshire talking about how they're only a few years away from seceding from the union. And you're like, dude, listen, like you guys got to be honest with yourselves here. Do you not listen? Even if you take over the state, which you haven't already, you know what I mean? Like it's not as if you've taken over a state, you have influence in that state, but there's still a lot of Democrats up there in New Hampshire. And like actually Nikki Haley did pretty good in her primary in, in New Hampshire. Yeah. Um,
But it's like, dude, do you not realize where we're at as a national government right now? If you think there is any chance that under current situations or anything close to current situations, they'd allow you. Do you know what they would do before they'd allow?
any state in this union to secede right now. If you're curious, just take a look at the last time a group of states tried to secede and they were willing to fight a war over it. And they're going to have to reinstate slavery just to free the blacks to take out New Hampshire. Sure, right, exactly.
We will fight you with our army of conscripted black people, New Hampshire. Now, we will be doing most of this fighting in the summer. I'll grant you that. But anyway, yeah, it is just – it's hard, especially I do think – I think you're really on to something there. And this is true for dissidents across the political spectrum that it's hard when you're losing so bad. Yeah.
to not retreat to a fantasy you know it's hard to not retreat to some fantasy where you're going to be the goddamn hero and all these guys up but if you actually want to be the hero and all these guys up it's gonna the first step is dealing with reality yeah but that's the irony right the irony is i'm we're on people that are living in the libertarian fantasy world and meanwhile i'm on your pitching like
I'm pitching a brand new libertarian fantasy world. I need you guys to buy in. I need I need I need the mass population to buy into my new libertarian fantasy. Well, you know, you can look, you can manifest things into reality, but they have to have a basis in reality in order to do it.
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There's obviously been a big split within the Libertarian Party over the presidential elections. I understand you are you know what I mean? Like you have a job at the party. So maybe there's like some things you you shouldn't say or can't say, but get paid well. So don't worry. OK, so there you are. So fuck it.
Um, so there's, you're not risking too much. Uh, it's just the communications director. What does, what does talking about stuff have to do with that job? Um, but so obviously there are, there are some people in the party who are supporting chase Oliver. There are, uh, this kind of, I don't know how to say it. I don't want to upset anyone, but this kind of open secret deal that's being made, um, with, with Donald Trump, uh,
um there's one was it in uh colorado i think they they're they're getting behind uh bobby kennedy what this is bizarre i've never seen anything like this happen before in the libertarian party what are your thoughts on all of it or who do you think libertarians should support should they support anyone i don't know what do you think i i mean look i i actually i do endorse well look if you if you
believe in Chase, if you believe in his message, if you believe in libertarian philosophy, vote for Chase. You know, go for it. You know, Angela's premise is that Donald Trump is going to be a better option. He's going to, as we said, closest to power we're ever going to get is probably with the Donald Trump presidency, if he lives up to his promises. And who knows if he will or not. But you know what? He made the promises. If we can get a libertarian in his cabinet, that's unbelievable.
Chase Oliver, I think, has I mean, he provides a problematic candidate. You know this, you know, you yourself said I'm distancing myself from the party because of this, which which is fine. But it's one of those things where the purists and again, this is the problem with the purists. Why want shitty libertarians? You've got purists that are so outraged by Chase Oliver, who is right.
on 95% of things that libertarians care about, probably spot on. I mean, to a T, probably spot on with you. But that 5% of, you know, one of our hot butt issues, which is trans and what you do with the kids. And of course, COVID, where he was not explicitly saying to get your vaccinations, but is taking photos with Pfizer, you know, I mean,
Those are things that obviously are going to piss a lot of people off. Well, the thing, by the way, can I just, and please don't lose your train of thought. I just want to say this before I forget it. I think the, the, the celebrating when Donald Trump got kicked off of Twitter might be the worst one for me because
Because it's just it's it's again, it's not that the distinction is even theory. It's like blue pill, red pill shit. It's like, oh, do you not see what's going on here? You're you're cheering on the thing that will destroy us. Like the only hope we have is to have some degree of freedom on the Internet to be able to talk about this stuff. And without that, it's over.
It's like, oh, you so don't get it that you think this is a win because what the racist man is gone or something like that. But anyway, I'm sorry. Continue. Well, it's like, well, just, you know, it's kind of like Lou Rockwell before he went off the deep end with Israel. You know, he had that. What do you mean off the deep end with Israel? Not Lou Rockwell. Sorry. Walter Block. Sorry. How dare you besmirch Lou Rockwell? Went off the deep end. Yes. Emperor Goody, Emperor Batty. Right. There is a lot.
Not to that, when you have the Biden administration, all the evils of that administration, the overarching authoritarianism, lawfare, their immigration stuff, everything about the Biden administration is an affront to libertarianism in every possible way.
So, yes, I endorse us supporting Donald Trump in states where it could be a swing state. You can cast your vote for Chase and that might make you feel good inside. And look, I will do everything. We're doing everything we can to try to support Chase, you know, where it's going to be good for everybody. Right. And it's not a hot button issue. Right. But.
At the end of the day, like we were talking about earlier, Kennedy is taking so many votes away that it's going to be up to you to decide if you want to vote on your philosophy, go for Chase. If you want to try to sway the measure of freedom back towards some modicum of normalcy,
I'm sorry, but you have to look at Donald Trump and go, this is a reasonable option here because the other option is psychotic. You know, we're over. America's done. I mean, Kamala Harris, I don't think I'm being too hyperbolic here. Kamala Harris is going to take over the presidency if Biden wins. There's no chance that doesn't happen.
Probably take it over before November. But yeah, it's likely. But 100 percent certainty Kamala Harris will be president if Joe Biden is reelected. No, I'll say this the way the way I look at it. And this is kind of the closest, I guess I'd say to Trump.
Or whatever. I mean, this is just honestly where I'm at. Look, if my choice is in 2008, is I can vote for Barack Obama, or I can vote for John McCain, or I can vote for Ron Paul, or something like that. Let's say you're in the Republican primary still. This is like...
100 billion times out of 100 billion times, I'm voting for Ron Paul because I don't care. There's first of all, there's this huge movement with a ton of enthusiasm behind him. He's drawing gigantic crowds. He's breaking fundraising records. He's opening up the minds of the next generation in a way that nobody else is. And also, he is actually the answer to saving the republic. Like,
Like he's the only shot we have to actually save this thing. It's sure disaster with either of the other two. And we saved the Republic with this guy. And he's the greatest human being in the world. Just easy, easy decision for me.
That's not the world we live in anymore. And right now the corporate media is trying their best to demonize this project 2025 stuff, which is like, you know, it's the things that they're even picking out of it are like, it's all these kind of like hot button issues that just honestly, you know, the abortion pill or something like that, like that's what you're supposed to vote on. Look, if the choice was between project 2025 and,
And there's plenty of shit in there that I disagree with. But if the choice was between that or the choice was,
W E F central bank, digital currency, eat bugs, own nothing and be happy. If that's the choice I pick project 2025, 100 billion times out of 100 billion times. Now, by the way, I don't even think Donald Trump's care. I don't even think Donald Trump's going to implement any of it. I think the choice is more likely between Trump's last term and the fear of what all this other stuff might be. But there's really no question that like it,
If I'm getting in the game of voting, I'm not even considering Chase Oliver because it's not like any of those things that I mentioned with the Ron Paul campaign are there. There's no movement being created out of this guy's candidacy. This isn't opening up people's minds. I'll open up more people's minds by talking on my podcast than by supporting this guy for president. It's just like complete. None of that's there. I don't trust the guy. I don't think he showed good character. He doesn't seem to get it.
on any level. You know what I mean? Like if you were like, if you were not against the COVID insanity and instead you were saying like, Hey, I had Thanksgiving, by the way, Thanksgiving, this is November of 2020. Okay. You've had March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, you're in November now. And you were still bragging about how you're having masks indoors at your dinner. I don't care where you are on guns.
I don't care. It's meaningless to me. I don't care if you understand Austrian economics at this point, which I've never seen him demonstrate that he does. But regardless of that, I'm just saying it's like that's not even on the radar to me. The question is, do I actually want to invest the time to go down and cast a ballot for Donald Trump or not? I live in a blue state. He's not going to win it anyway. I'm not like particularly motivated to do that. But that's that's where I'm at, is that that's the only decision to be made.
Well, I mean, as I said, we sent out a recent email. I wrote it's like the party is still the party. So look, I would say if you're in a blue state, go out, cast the vote, support the party because the ballot access is always a fight anyway. You want to maintain that public presence. But to your point about Chase not creating a movement, he frustrated the living shit out of me because all of his campaign stuff during Pride Month is happening. But he's going to gay pride parades and almost exclusively. That was where Chase Oliver could be found.
Let me ask you, who's going to be voting Libertarian at a gay pride parade? Is there one person you're going to talk to that's going to change their mind and decide to vote Libertarian instead of voting for the Biden-Harris ticket?
You were wasting your time. You're wasting campaign fund. You're wasting money. It just doesn't make any sense. So to your point, look, vote for the party. You're not voting for Chase. Vote for the party. Go in your state and vote, you know, if it doesn't matter. And I said, I'm in California. I'm going to vote for Chase Oliver. I'm voting for Libertarian Party in California. Well, you know, if you don't live here.
God bless you, man. Use your own decisions. Make your own choices. Listen, I get where you're coming from. All right. Well, Brian, I really enjoyed this, man. We got to do it again. Thanks so much for coming on, brother. A pleasure, sir. Awesome to see you as always. You too, brother. All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.