Matt Gaetz
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Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get your first month free at greenlight.com slash Wondery. That's greenlight.com slash Wondery. Hello, hello. What's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I'm very thrilled to be joined today by Congressman Matt Gaetz. Thank you so much, sir, for taking some time with us. I'm happy to, but does this mean I am indeed part of the problem?

By accepting your invitation, does it function as an admission? I mean, you are in Congress. But listen, you join the select group of representatives who have appeared on this show. It's you and Thomas Massey. And so this puts you in the upper echelon, in my view. I'm looking at all you other cowards. Come on the show. Thomas Massey is definitely not part of the problem. So that probably bodes well for me.

I could not agree more with you. So I want to ask you, obviously, that you broke some very big news in this...

Truly bizarre environment where we have, I think, perhaps one of the things that's exposed to the corporate media more than anything in recent memory. And I don't say that lightly because there's been quite a lot. But the utter lack of interest in getting to the bottom of these multiple assassination attempts against the former and quite possibly future President Trump.

You broke the news the other day that there are five teams. Can you explain to me and my listeners what exactly that means? Yeah. Just four days before the second assassination attempt, I received a briefing from a senior DHS official saying that there were five known teams at

the time of the first assassination attempt in Butler that we were aware of, that we were tracking, one with connections to Ukraine, one with connections to Pakistan, one with connections to Iran, and then two that had emerged domestically that we were observing. And there was no question that the most sophisticated among those was the Iranian team. And so it was really shocking then to

right after that briefing to see this person rhetorically and proverbially wrapped in the Ukrainian flag, all of a sudden attempting to kill the former president. And so that raised my concern. And then

When determining how to align resources to Trump's detail, you naturally have to assess the threat environment. And so that is what I was trying to bring forward to the public, that this isn't just any old former president or presidential candidate. This is someone for whom we know of existing threats that are out there. And probably it's not the known threats that you got to be most worried about. It's the one you don't see coming.

So when you say there's five teams, what exactly does that mean? What comes to my mind is like a militia or something like that? Yeah, I say teams, but I know in the Iranian case, there's more than one person involved. I think in one of the cases, it's just like a guy from Pakistan here that we knew had intention to do harm to Trump. And so we were keeping a real close eye on him. So there's varying degrees of sophistication.

But when I said this initially, people thought I was crazy. And now, quite recently, you've just had President Trump receive a defensive briefing from our government about the sophistication of the Iranian threat.

Frankly, if I hadn't come out and talked about the teams and the Iranian threat, I don't know if President Trump would have got that briefing. Sometimes you got to you got to expose this stuff to get to get people off their duff. Right. And of course, we know famously now that that as President Trump was misled about the number of troops in Syria when he was trying to. So the idea of him getting good information while he's out of office is ridiculous.

doesn't seem like too much or it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch that he would not be getting. Actually, that's a really good point. The point you make there is one I've sort of been obsessing about lately because in some ways in the last Trump presidency, this guy rolls into D.C. with a New York Rolodex and relies on a lot of people in really important positions who end up working against him. And like whether you like Trump or don't like Trump or like Biden or don't like Biden, it's just fundamentally

unworkable to have features of the executive branch working against itself. And I'm hoping, and I truly do believe that now having had the experience of Ben, Ben president, he's got a better understanding of, of who can actually put, you know, put their nose to the grindstone on achieving the agenda.

Yeah, well, from your lips to God's ear, I hope you're right about that. Oh, look, it's also I mean, as you said, whether you like Donald Trump or not, the people who are hysterically screaming every day about democracy don't seem to have too much of an interest in the story that the last duly elected president of the United States of America was president.

Like framed by his own deep state for treason, was lied to by his own people. I mean, if you guys can remember, because things go so quickly, I'm speaking to the audience, not to you. But when Donald Trump was in for his four-year term, it was, I think, every single week, the New York Times had a piece where there was, you know,

This unnamed, you know, source in the executive branch says something damning about Donald Trump. And like, if we have democracy in any meaningful way, you kind of can't have a system where the democratically elected commander in chief is being undermined by his own government.

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Yeah, when you were talking about a president being undermined by his own deep state, I thought you were talking about Joe Biden getting kicked off the ticket. Well, yeah, there's that too. Yes. No, I mean, I think – You notice, like, we got more of the democracy lectures from Biden. Biden had to, like, you know, rant and rave about Charlottesville and democracy. And you don't hear that stuff from Harris. You don't hear the woman who got zero votes in the Democratic primary giving these soaring democracy lectures.

And by the way, Joe Biden's little democracy talk and Kamala Harris's enthusiasm for that doesn't do anything for you when you're checking out at the grocery counter and are paying exorbitant prices. And now you've got a lot of Gen Z listeners like, sorry, but you're not going to be able to buy a house. If you want to go buy a car, you're looking at interest payments that might be double what you would have just had a few years ago. And if this generation

does not get out and vote. Like, who are we fighting to save this country for? Young people have been hammered by these policies. And if, if they won't vote their own self-interest, like, I don't know what the, what the elder millennial generation is going to be able to do for them. Yeah. Well, look, I, I couldn't agree more with you about what we're handing, uh, the,

or have already handed to this next generation. And it's just, it's terrible. I mean, I know people in my family who are like in their twenties just getting started and it's just, the whole system is so stacked against them when you have, you come out of college with 150 grand in debt and you can't get a job 'cause your degree is worth next to nothing. And the average home is going for 700 grand. I mean, I live near New York City. It's a little higher here than average, but still across the country.

Pretty, pretty damn unaffordable. And the result is a diminished quality of life. Like I was on Amazon the other day and I saw you can buy a container ship house for like 12 grand. And is that really what we're reduced to asking Amazon to deliver us our pod that we get to live in? Like not a house. And, and it,

For so long, the debt that we have accrued in this country has existed absent any specific pain point on the American people. And so it continues to erupt at a rate of a trillion dollars every hundred days added to the debt. And the reason that happens is because we vote to fund the government all at once with one vote.

In the year and you would not run a state government that way, a city government that way. You would not run the accounting of a little league that way. And yet that's how we run the country. And it's not a bug of the system. It's a feature because the lobbyists and the special interests who buy off.

the political leaders know once they get something funded, it has eternal life. Whether it works or not, whether it helps people or hurts them, it has eternal life because we never do programmatic review of the budget. And now all of that is culminating with the dollar at one of the weakest points in our lifetime right now. And, and, and,

the dollar not going as far. And it did not happen because some like Mr. Magoo character was twisting a dial somewhere at the Fed. It happened because of the way we budget and the fact that we allow debt to balloon without taking tough votes on shit we have to cut.

Yeah, I mean, look, it's such a disgrace for a country like ours where my grandfather was able to work at a factory and with that salary could support a family, could own a house. His wife didn't have to work. His kids went to college. He played poker on the weekends. Like he had a good American life. Hold him or stud?

You know, that's a good question. I'm not sure what game they were playing. I like to think it was Hold'em, but I don't know. But actually probably wasn't Hold'em. What if it was Omaha? No, we were Northeast people. I don't think he was playing Omaha. But...

The ungodly technological advances we've had in the decades since then, we should all be living a much more luxurious life. And of course, in some ways we are. Medical technology has advanced. Obviously, we can have conversations like this over my home studio and you can be in your office or home and we can. But the base, the basics of like

Essentially, all the areas where government hyper-regulates and where the government is way too involved, the costs just go through the roof. I think you make a very good point that for the first time, I think we've seen kind of like a drip, drip, drip, and now all at once. But for the first time, you're really looking at the younger generation and going like, whoa, there's just –

there's really no way unless you really make, I mean, you got it. You know, if you, if you get to the point where you're making more than half a million dollars a year, you're still going to have a real good life in this country, but you almost have to get to that point before you're like, okay, you can now go have what my grandfather had.

It's truly tragic. And the left accuses the right of economic policies that leave people out. But the dynamic you just described, where if you're not making half a million dollars, you're having a hard time breaking into the middle class in some places in this country. That's actually what leaves people out. And it is the fuel of capitalism that has allowed us to have the greatest progress in all of human history. But there's an interesting dynamic that's changing. When I was growing up,

the new TV would come out and then a few months later it's cheaper right I'm used to a dynamic where technology got cheaper

And really the only thing that's getting cheaper now is like data and the transmission of information like you just talked about. But cars are getting more expensive. Houses are getting way more expensive. You're having a generation now that's not going to get used to things getting cheaper, but indeed more expensive because of the rapid inflation that occurred. And there are some who got all the cheap debt when money was free.

And in a way, those are some pretty good investments. If you're carrying debt right now that you were able to acquire at 3% or 4%, you look like a genius. But at the same time, that affects quality of life greatly because a lot of people now, their starter home is their forever home. You're never leaving that starter home, not because you haven't made more money, your family's not growing, but because you cannot change interest rates.

And it's a cruel thing to do. And it's what, it's what robs people of the hope for better, which is actually what drives the type of achievement that lifts people up.

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Yeah, no, I could could not agree more with you. So I do I want to go back to this this question of Iranian involvement in attempts on on Donald Trump's life, because I have to say I so I saw Donald Trump tweeted, which he doesn't tweet as much as he used to. He's but he was actually on Twitter, not just from Truth Social, and said something about this earlier today or it was yesterday about.

Iran and, you know, he was just giving a speech. He mentioned this again. He threatened, you know, that if Iran did anything, we would destroy the entire country. I guess one of the things that I'm a little confused on is if so, if you get this briefing that suggests one of the teams is has Ukrainian links, some of them have other foreign national links. One has Iranian links. Why?

After the guy who was linked to Ukraine essentially is being charged with the second assassination attempt, why is it that Iran is the one who's being focused on here? And, like, forgive me, Congressman, but just after, between, you know...

The war in Iraq, between the war in Libya, the war in Syria, between COVID, between Trump-Russia collusion and all of this. I'm just very skeptical of when someone at the Department of Homeland Security says, hey, you know that country that Lindsey Graham has been trying to bomb for 25 years? They're the ones who are guilty of this. My interest in this would be to avoid a catastrophic war with Iran. I

I guess my question is why the focus on Iran and what is what is actually the tangible evidence here that Iran was involved or is involved in attempting to assassinate Trump? Yeah, I can't talk about the intel on a platform like this, but I can tell you the reason I believe Trump got that defensive briefing is because in the entire threat portfolio, the highest level of sophistication was the Iranian threat.

So I think that it rose to the highest level. Now, I'm with you. I don't share the Lindsey Graham desire to turn every sand dune into a Jeffersonian democracy with blood and Arab militias. But I do think that...

Iran has a motive here. When Trump was president, he didn't start war with Iran. Actually, he deterred war everywhere in the Middle East because people thought he was so unpredictable that if you pulled some shit, 68 Tomahawk missiles might end up on your air base like they did in Syria. And I

That didn't embroil us into becoming like the block captain of Damascus, like Lindsey Graham would probably prefer to do. It resulted in resetting deterrence and I think acting based on our interests, not on this notion of regime change and democracy building throughout the sands of the Middle East.

But so, I mean, do you think Iran has an interest in, I mean, look, I understand the idea of Iran having an interest in keeping Donald Trump out. Yeah, they used to be poor. They were poor when Trump was president because he had these crippling sanctions. The reason Iran has been enriched is because Joe Biden was so focused on the war in Ukraine, which is just beyond me, that he would rather enrich Venezuela and Iran than Russia. And as we assess that now, after October 7th,

I don't know that you can really say that was a wise choice. Well, it's certainly... You're not going to get an argument from me on that. I think the proxy war in Ukraine is... I think...

And I don't say I'm not being hyperbolic. I think it's the most reckless policy in American history. I mean, we're we're picking out a high bar. Well, I mean, look, it really could be, though. I mean, we won't have time to debate. You won't have much time to say I told you so if it results in, you know, thermonuclear meltdown of the planet. But even in the height, even in the height of the Cold War, when, uh,

when you didn't have to make up the idea that Russia was an expansionist power, when they were actually controlling half of Europe, we never had anything as reckless as a policy of a war in Ukraine approving strikes into Russia. I mean, even back then, even in the war in Vietnam or in the war in Korea, it was never...

There was never a thought that we would be okay because everybody involved knew, well, there's the nuclear threat. You can't do that. You have to take that at least somewhat seriously. But wait a second. Back then, the left was anti-war. What the fuck happened to the anti-war left? Where'd they go? Where do I find the pacifist Democrats? Because they are so bloodthirsty to line up –

weapon systems and to give Zelensky everything he wants to go deeper into Russia. That is now the debate that's happened. The debate is not on Capitol Hill, should we be involved or not? My side has lost that debate. There's overwhelming support for involvement on Capitol Hill, not so much in our neighborhoods and on Main Street, but here on Capitol Hill where all that defense contractor money flows. So now it's just about, can anyone think of a weapon system that can go deeper into Russia?

That's the whole debate. And you just wonder at what point is Putin able to consolidate a sufficient amount of political support in his country to engage kinetically directly with the United States? And then what? We were doing all of this over which guy in a tracksuit got to run Crimea in the Donbass region?

I don't remember – like back when Putin was running all of that and then not running it and then now wants to run it again, it hasn't fundamentally changed quality of life for my bosses in northwest Florida, but it sure as hell will if this thing goes to a catastrophic end.

Yeah, and look, even if your perspective – look, I agree with you in your perspective that I have this wild view that American politicians who are elected by American citizens, first priority ought to be to those citizens who elected them and not to foreign partners. It's radical stuff. It is. It's very radical. But even if your obligation was to the people of Ukraine –

I mean, what have we done? When I say we, I mean the Biden administration. They killed the peace talks early in the wars. I mean, hundreds of thousands of people, by the best estimates, have been killed. Ukraine is destroyed. And eventually, we're going to come back to something that I would venture to bet

is not quite as good of a deal as ukraine had offered at the beginning that we insisted they'd not agree to so it'll be nothing but death and destruction and then handing them a worse deal than they could have had at the beginning yeah all of their ukrainians who've lost their homes their businesses their loved ones family members like do you think looking back on that they would have accepted like not joining nato

Because maybe you could have stopped this whole thing by sufficient deterrence on Russia saying that there was no plan to bring Ukraine into NATO, which, by the way, there wasn't really anyway in the short term.

And then all the human life would be preserved. And that's why those of us who are anti-war, we're not isolationists. You engage with the world. But it seems like increasingly American engagement has made things worse. The Middle East is worse off after all the kind of Bush-Obama doctrine played out there. Thank God Trump got in and brought a real reckoning as it came to recognizing Israel. And then in Europe, we've kind of made a mess of it there as well.

And meanwhile, the defense contractor stock goes up, inflation goes up for the American people, and you have to wonder whether or not your son or daughter is going to be fighting in a war oceans away in a place that most Americans would have a challenge pointing to on a map.

Yeah, listen, so I completely agree with you with the stuff on Ukraine. And by the way, of course, the person who insisted that we at the Bucharest summit, we declare that that Ukraine will be a member of NATO was George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice. And what calls have they ever blown? Yeah, as we all know, just excellent foreign policy decisions all around.

I do think, though, that look, it's obviously it's a false choice to say that we either have to get involved in a war with Russia or we have to get involved in a war with Iran. I certainly am concerned about what appears over the last couple of weeks to be a major escalation in the war in the Middle East. I think it's safe to say that Hezbollah and Israel are at war at this point. So this is now a wider regional war at this.

same time, and I appreciate the fact that you can't talk about classified things on this show, but do you share any of the concern that I have where I see President Trump now, who I kind of agree with you at his best, represents a departure from this reckless foreign policy. But as you have Israel with our backing at war in Palestine, in Gaza, now at war with Hezbollah, now I

the more saber rattling toward Iran, uh,

I completely agree with you on Ukraine, but isn't it fair for the American people that if we're going to start escalating these conversations for once in any of these situations, like, can we see some actual evidence that Iran is guilty of something rather than just, and I do, listen, you are one of my favorite congressmen, but rather than just someone in Congress saying someone at the department of Homeland security told me, I can't explain it to you, but it's Iran. It's,

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All right, let's get back into the show. Well, the interdictions that are happening from the Iranians to the Houthis are real, right? People see the weapon systems that they are sending there that are really causing problems for shipping. And you can't let some tribe of ne'er-do-wells have that type of impact on the global economy. When you see the way that Iran is sending financing directly to Hamas and Hezbollah,

Those aren't really disputed facts by anyone, including Iran. So that would be what they're doing to escalate. And by the way, no one is of any illusion about who's backing the militias that are constantly attacking the U.S. bases and installations and troops in Iraq. Now, by the way, I don't even think we should be in Iraq anymore. So I'm not making an argument for expansionism, but that certainly isn't licensed for an Iranian-backed militia to shoot at them and harm them.

I do worry about this war widening, and I actually think the Biden administration was smart to have a real enhanced force posture in the eastern Mediterranean to try to deter the Lebanese army from entering into this conflict. We've got pretty good mil-to-mil relationships with the Lebanese army, but that's a country that's basically been understaffed.

on the brink of civil war for a while, the collapse of their banking system and monetary system, the fact that for security in Southern Lebanon, they've had to enter into unity government with Hezbollah. It's kind of a mess. Yeah. Well, I think that's, it certainly is quite a mess. So I will say, I know you're, you have a time crunch here, so I'll let you go after, but if,

If funding Hamas is the criteria for which we judge you on, Benjamin Netanyahu is going to have something to ask you. You're right. Well, and I think there'll be a lot of questioning of Netanyahu in history on this.

Some of the some of the stuff that was going down on October 7th. I mean, when you look at these reports where these young officers in the IDF are saying, hey, we're watching these guys train. We're watching these guys prepare with paragliders. And, you know, we need more protection here. And then the opposite occurred. I don't know how you explain that. It's really it's really frustrating. It must be it must be tragic for everyone who's lost a family member or waiting for a hostage.

Yeah. Do you, do you think, and I'll, I'll let you go after this question, but I don't want to get you in trouble, but I do, you know, for people like yourself who are kind of a part of this new brand of Republican leadership, the kind of the America first kind of, you know, as we said before, the departure from the Bush Cheney adventurism of, of former Republicans and the,

one of the things that have kind of been, you know, handed to you guys, like essentially, essentially the way I see it is that the overwhelming majority of Republican voters are with you and president Trump. However, the overwhelming amount of the establishment of big donors of lobbyists, they are very opposed to this idea of like kind of not having an ever growing military industrial complex. But one of the things that's handed to,

to you and the new group of Republicans. And I think of people like Thomas Massey and not just people in Congress, but Vivek Ramaswamy. And, you know, there's like a lot of like kind of the younger J.D. Vance guys like Don Jr. Yeah, we're all of this view. Yes. The relationship between the United States of America and Israel is something that's gone back, you know, at least into the 60s.

And it does seem to me that while, say, at the Republican National Convention or in any Donald Trump speech that I've heard talking about Israel over the last year, it is always, hey, we're going to do this.

we're closer friends with them than the Democrats are. You know, as Trump says, Kamala Harris is a Palestinian, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer, they're Palestinians. There does seem to me to be a bit of an odd fit when the country is run by its longest serving prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who was coming over here to testify as a regional expert that we got to overthrow Saddam Hussein. We got to go to war with Iran. We got to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi. We got to overthrow Bashar al-Assad. It's like the, the,

The leader of the country has John McCain foreign policy, and yet this new America First movement is somehow joined at the hip with essentially like a real deal neocon who runs Israel. What do you think about that? Yeah, I can respect Israel and Netanyahu without wanting to wholly adopt their foreign policy, right? Right.

we get criticized in the America First movement oftentimes of being isolationists. We're not isolationists. We want to have friendly relations with countries everywhere. We're not trying to do regime change wars and we're not trying to be the world's police force or the world's piggy bank. But, you know, I think that friendship

requires honest conversations. Otherwise, you're not being a true friend. And I think we are owed some more honest conversations about why Israel wasn't better protected on October 7th, given the intelligence that they had received. And when Israel can't be in a situation where...

where there's a moral hazard that develops as a consequence of their relationship with the United States. And I don't think we're there, but you know, it just taking this conversation to like it's, it's logical. And you could see a world in which it wouldn't be beneficial to Israel to always think they could go punch a bully and then have a bigger bully in the United States enter the fight on their behalf here. Israel was attacked and I believe justifiably responded to that attack, uh,

But I'm not here for some broadening war with Iran. I don't believe Iran seeks some kinetic conflict with the United States. They know we have a qualitative military edge and that Israel does too. But we can't forget Israel's in a really tough neighborhood. They're like the one democracy there, and they ought to have a qualitative military edge over their neighbors. And that oftentimes inures to the benefit of both countries. But that's the way we should evaluate it is in the mutual benefit, not just as a gratuitous gesture.

Listen, I've been on record for a long time that I think Israel should move to Canada. And I'm not particularly interested in giving the Canadians a say in this matter. We just put them right there in a good neighborhood. You know, they would have been the 14th colony if we knew they had oil. Canada is basically a separate country because it's the last place we stopped chasing a bunch of immigrants because we didn't think anything was up.

there. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you've been up there, it's pretty cold. You wouldn't want to chase Indians up there. I'm a Florida man. We, we see Canadians in the winter and we, we think they're part polar bear when they get in the water. All right. Well, Congressman Gates, I really appreciate your time. I hope we get to do it again. Uh,

some time. If there's anything, if people want to support you or anything that you want to plug or mention, please let my listeners know. Yeah, sure, sure. Follow me on X at Matt Gates and at Rep Matt Gates. Also, I've got a podcast called Firebrand and invite everybody to subscribe and listen. All right. Thank you for your time, Congressman. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Have a good one.

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