816: Deciphering Genetic Variations in Bacteria that Lead to Disease - Dr. Shannon Manning
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Hi everyone, I'm Dr. Marie McNeely and I'm glad to have you here for today's episode of People Behind the Science. Today we're rebroadcasting our interview with our guest, Dr. Shannon Manning. Listeners, Shannon's research examines how bacteria or viruses can cause disease in people. Now, how likely a person is to get sick may be due to the different types of pathogens that they're exposed to, but also genetic variation within a specific type of pathogen.

So just like people, not every bacteria of a particular species is identical, and some are more effective at attaching to targets and infecting hosts. Now, you'll learn more about Shannon's research, her career, and her life outside the lab in this episode of People Behind the Science.

Every day, discoveries are made that will change our understanding of the world around us. Dr. Marie McNeely is here to bring you the brilliant minds who are making these discoveries so they can share their incredible stories and take you on an amazing journey. Welcome to People Behind the Science. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of People Behind the Science.

I am thrilled to have with me today Dr. Shannon Manning. So Shannon, we are delighted to have you with us on the show. Thanks for joining us. How are you? I'm fine, thank you. Thank you for having me. Wonderful. Well, we are excited to chat more about your life and your research, but I want to start by telling our listeners just a little bit about you. So listeners, Shannon is the MSU Foundation Associate Professor in the Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics at Michigan State University.

She received her Master's of Public Health in Hospital and Molecular Epidemiology and her PhD in Molecular Epidemiology from the University of Michigan. Afterwards, Shannon was awarded an Emerging Infectious Disease Postdoctoral Fellowship from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention. And Shannon is here with us today, listeners, to talk about her life and her science. So today, we want to get to know more about you, Shannon, both your life in the lab and your life outside of the lab. So can you start by telling us what you like to do with your time when you're not busy doing science? Shannon

Sure. I actually really love spending time with my family. I have four children ranging in age from seven to 17, so they definitely keep me busy. So if you try to find me on the weekends, I'm usually at a soccer game or a swim meet and cheering on the kids and their various sports and activities.

I also love gardening. I feel like it's therapeutic and you can see how nice the garden looks pretty much within the course of a week or two. And it's very different when you're working in science because sometimes projects can take two years before you actually see the end product. And so I really enjoy doing that on the weekends in particular.

Absolutely. I think that sense of immediate gratification is, it's weird. I tell people I like to clean my house for that reason. Why do you like cleaning? Because then it's done and you can see it. So gardening, do you do flowers or food or a mix?

No food. We have too many rodents. I do a lot of flowers. I have a lot of perennials and annuals. We live in Michigan, so the climate isn't great. But in the summer, we have a lot of nice annual flowers that we can put out each year. I love it. Well, great to hear a little bit more about your family and how you spend your time when you're not in the lab. But Shannon, I do want to talk about your lab life next. So can you tell us how do you describe what you do at work to someone who may not be familiar with your science?

What we do here is we are trying to really better understand how pathogens, and these can be like bacteria or viruses, how they cause disease in people. And so we know that people vary in their ability to get sick and that some of this variation is actually due to coming into contact with different types of pathogens. But we also see variation in the pathogens themselves. So if you think about E. coli, for example,

They might be different in certain ways, so they're not 100% identical. And so we're trying to figure out how those different features contribute to more severe disease. And perhaps they might have some sort of mechanism that allows them to attach to host tissue better than others.

And so once you can identify those factors, then you can start thinking about new ways to prevent these bacteria or pathogens from attaching. And that could be through identifying vaccine targets or maybe even therapeutics that could block those targets from interacting. Interesting. That's very cool.

So before we dive into all the details of your research, though, I do want to talk about what motivates you. It sounds like you have a lot going on with your kids, managing the garden and all the things that you're doing in the lab. Is there one particular thing that keeps you motivated or do you have a favorite quote or saying that keeps you going when the days are long?

Well, one quote that actually comes to mind is by Babe Ruth. And he said, quote, it's hard to beat a person who never gives up, unquote. And I really like this quote, especially because most people, regardless of what career they've chosen, most people have these obstacles and challenges that they always have to overcome along the way.

So for me, I've always recognized the importance of hard work and dedication and knowing that I had this ability to learn from my failures and kind of learn how to pick myself back up again and keep going. I think that when you can do that, you can overcome that. It essentially provides you with the confidence that you might need to keep on going.

Definitely. And I think you really haven't lost or really haven't been defeated until you give up, right? As long as you're still trying, you're still in the game. Right. In whatever capacity that might be. Little by little or big steps, but it all counts. Absolutely. Well, great to get a window into what motivates you, what keeps you going. But I want to talk next about some of the people who might have motivated you or inspired you along your career. So do you have any particular role models or people that stand out in your mind who really served as great mentors?

Oh, I do. I've actually been so lucky. I've had so many wonderful role models along the way. The people that come to mind, I can't really just specify one, but in thinking about certain aspects of how they kind of inspired me, I think of my PhD mentors, Dr. Betsy Faxman and Karl Mars at the University of Michigan.

as well as my postdoctoral mentors, Dr. Tom Whittem and Deli Davies. They were here at Michigan State when I first arrived. And I think they stand out in my mind because of how well they were able to balance their work with their professionalism

personal lives and still be really, really successful at work. And thinking about them, each of them had their own families at home and it was always important to them. And it was clear to me just how important it really was. And so I don't know that I actually appreciated it at the time when I was a postdoc or a PhD student. I just knew I had to work.

But now that I have four kids of my own and a similar job to balance, I recognize how easy they made it look despite all the challenges that come their way.

And I think that maintaining that balance between work and home is so important. And it's also important to recognize that you're not going to be able to do it all and that there are some things that you have to give up in both environments in order to maintain that balance. So that's where prioritizing becomes critical. Absolutely. And I think this is an ongoing challenge, right? It's not something that you just kind of solve and you're done with. And this is something that's, I

I think continually on the minds of aspiring scientists is this is going to be a challenge in their career and how do they manage it? So you mentioned a couple of things. Is there one thing that really works for you to ensure that you're maintaining that work-life balance?

I think it's prioritizing and knowing that I'm not going to be able to make every meeting and every kid event and just not beating myself up for it. I mean, I used to give myself guilt trips over missing a school function or not being able to go on a field trip, for example. I just can't do that because I have to recognize that there are so many things that are important to me in my life.

So I think for me, it's just figuring out what that balance is. Absolutely. Well, I think that's great advice for our listeners who might be young scientists starting families of their own or just managing other aspects of their life and trying to fit it all in in a day. You can't. It's not possible. It's a challenge. Well, Shannon, now tell us a little bit about what started your scientific journey to begin with. Is there one particular memory that sticks out in your mind is when this whole interest in science began?

Yes, I would probably have to say that was during my undergraduate studies at the University of Michigan. I mean, I've always had a love for science, but I was given an opportunity to work as a research assistant in a laboratory in the biology department that studied bacterial evolution.

That really taught me all about bacteria, more than you would know. And I realized that this was something that was super interesting to me and something that I wanted to possibly pursue in the future. I thought that maybe I would take on a different angle because the lab that I was working in was studying non-pathogenic bacteria, particularly E. coli. So after learning a lot of techniques and how to grow bacteria and work with them, I

I realized I wanted to switch focuses a little bit and try to study bacterial pathogens, but I knew we're causing huge outbreaks in certain locations and we're causing deaths and disease all over the world. Certainly. So can you tell us what was it like starting to work in these labs as an undergraduate? Was it intimidating? Was it exciting? What were some of the first experiences like when you stepped foot in that lab? It's probably a little bit of both.

Being an undergraduate, walking into a lab knowing that you have to contribute, knowing that you have a lot to learn, it's a little bit intimidating, especially when you're surrounded by graduate students and postdoctoral researchers that have been researching these bacteria for years and years. But it was also exciting. I was really excited to have the opportunity and I'm so grateful. I feel that if I didn't have that opportunity, I probably wouldn't be here.

And so I always, in my current position, I always try to talk to undergraduates who reach out and are interested in research, even if I don't have any positions available in my lab. I always try to talk to them just to see if I can guide them or help them along the way, maybe think of a lab that they might be able to fit into quite easily.

Because I think those early experiences are so important. Absolutely. And I know mentorship is big for you. You just recently received a postdoctoral mentorship award. So tell us a little bit about your experience as a mentor to students.

Well, I try to create an environment where I consider everyone kind of equal. I know that it's difficult at times because there are some individuals who've been training in the field for years and years and then there are other undergraduates that are just coming in.

I think it's really important not to make those undergraduates feel like they know nothing and that they're part of the team and that they have a say. And so for my research environment, it's very collaborative with all of us kind of working together to answer these research questions. And I think it's a much healthier environment than those where you have this ranking system where

where I've been in labs, I've seen labs where the undergraduates come in and they're responsible for doing the dishes. And I think that really limits them because it doesn't give them that opportunity to grow. And I always say, it is what you make of it. If you're here just to put that you worked in a research lab on your CV or your resume to apply for medical school, then you're not going to get much out of it.

But the more you're willing to dive in and learn and really contribute, then the more you're really going to grow and get out of it. Absolutely. I think you brought up a good point. I've seen those labs, too, where they sort of relegate all the tasks that no one wants to do to the undergraduate students. And that can be a really big turnoff for research because now they're doing only the terrible tasks in the lab, right? Sure. It's not really fun. So, yeah, we all do the dishes. That's right. Same as at my house, too. Right.

Well, Shannon, wonderful to hear more about your role as a mentor. And I think we left off on your scientific journey kind of talking about how you were getting interested in science in undergraduate. Can you tell us, were there any other key moments that really come to mind that

that took you from that curious undergraduate student now to where you are today? Yes, I would have to say after I earned my PhD, I learned a lot during my PhD work where I was specifically studying shiga toxin producing E. coli, which is a very common foodborne pathogen. And it produces this very toxic toxin that causes kidney failure in some. And I was also studying group B streptococcus at the same time

And that causes meningitis and bloodstream infections in newborn babies. And for me, it was really hard to give any of that up. I really wanted to study both of the pathogens and I wanted to be able to apply some of the new tools that I had learned in my PhD studies to what I was doing in the future.

So I was very lucky in that I received this Emerging Infectious Disease Fellowship through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And that placed me at the Michigan Department of Health. It was there that I learned so much about the public health system and how different diseases were getting tracked and how you could monitor those trends in the population, how you could...

identify increases in frequency of a specific disease in one region relative to another and how important that was for surveillance and disease detection. So at that point,

I started developing my own system there to detect shiga toxin producing E. coli. And then I was connected with some researchers at Michigan State University and those ended up being my postdoctoral mentors. Oh, wow. And so after that fellowship, they hired me on as a postdoctoral researcher.

And the great thing for me was I was able to work on E. coli and strep at the same time. And so I basically had a 50/50 split. One of my mentors studied strep, the other one studied E. coli, and it was just a great collaboration because eventually all three of us together wrote a grant, even though they didn't study each other's pathogens. I kind of linked them and we made something out of that collaboration.

And so I'm still studying some of those same research questions today. Well, I love that story. And Shannon, I think you made it sound easy making all the pieces fall into place along your journey. Not really. But sometimes there is luck involved. Absolutely. So now can you tell us what is a project that you are working on that you are the most excited about in the lab?

There are so many, it's hard to choose. I have a very diverse group. I'm very lucky because we get to study many different bacterial pathogens. But one project that we're just now trying to get published is a project that involves Group B Streptococcus. And as I said, this is the pathogen that causes neonatal sepsis and meningitis. So mothers are often carrying the Group B Streptococcus and

and it passes through the placenta and can infect the baby. And this happens unknowingly because the moms are fine. So there's one project where we're trying to really better understand the

the mechanisms that these streptococci use to actually cross the placental membranes to infect the baby. And so we recently found that there are certain strain types with certain genetic characteristics that are better able to survive inside the immune cells, macrophages, and

And the other strains that don't cause a lot of disease actually get killed inside these cells. And so we think that there are certain strains of bacteria, these streptococci, that are better able to hang out in these macrophages and disseminate throughout the body. So now we're really trying to understand the processes, the mechanisms that they're using to survive inside these cells.

This is interesting. So is this a pathogen where you're seeing that a lot of new strains are forming? I sort of think of the flu as the stereotype of this, where every year it's maybe a different strain. So are there different strains emerging that are more problematic than others or that you have to kind of keep your eye on what the patterns are?

Yes, and that's actually one thing that we do. And so that was how I kind of combined some of these surveillance efforts that I did in the CDC fellowship, using molecular tools to characterize and sequence the genomes of these pathogens to figure out what their genetic signature is.

And so we find that both with E. coli and strep, that different strains have varying ability to cause more severe disease. And so figuring out what that subset of strains might have or might use becomes really important.

because those are increasing in frequency in certain regions and they're causing more cases of the severe outcomes like meningitis, for example, or kidney failure for E. coli. Interesting. Well, this is fascinating work, Shannon, and I think really having a big impact then on public health on a lot of these conditions. So phenomenal work you're doing in the lab. Thank you. And I think so far that we've talked about a lot of the excellent parts of your research career and how you got to this point.

But we haven't yet talked about a lot of the struggles, the challenges and the failures, and they are quite common in careers in science. So we do like to make our listeners aware of them so that you kind of get a full picture of what life is like as a scientist. So Shannon, do you have a story that you can share with us today of a challenge or a failure of your own?

Well, the beginning of my academic career was a little rocky. I think a lot of people can probably relate after you are a postdoc then becomes the time where you feel like you're ready. You have these ideas, you want to jump in and have your own research program, but it's not necessarily that easy. And so for me, probably many can share the same story. I interviewed at several institutions to try to find a faculty position that worked for me.

And I didn't always get fabulous feedback or the job. So after that, it's really difficult to hear how you're not a good fit for a given position despite wanting that position so badly. But I think in the end, it's probably for the better and things happen for a reason. I'm a firm believer of that. So for me, I feel like it just made me work harder and I took the advice, I took the criticism to heart and

And I tried to make improvements, whether that was to my research program or how I presented my data or myself. I just tried to keep going. Absolutely. Well, I think the job market is something that discourages a lot of young scientists. Was there ever a point where you considered maybe leaving academic science? Yes, absolutely. I never thought I could do what I'm doing now.

I never really believed in it. And there was a time when all of a sudden it hit me that I was actually doing it. And so then I thought, okay, well, maybe I can do that. And I think you have to really consider all your options and what you love, because I really love to write. And I know that grant writing is a huge part of the job.

So for me, I loved it. I thought that was one of my favorite things and writing papers. I just really enjoy it. But for those who don't enjoy writing as much, then maybe it isn't the right path. But yeah, I would say keep pushing on. Do what you love.

Well, thank you so much for sharing some of these challenges. I think you're absolutely right. This beginning of your independent career is one of the most challenging parts of the scientific career pathway, because I think you don't always get trained in all these different aspects. Like how do you interview well for a job? How do you start your own lab? All these pieces that you're just sort of expected to know. Right. Exactly. Well,

Well, we don't just want to talk about the challenges and the difficult times. So Shannon, I want you to tell us next about a happy moment in your scientific career. And this can be a big success or just a little win along the way that meant a lot.

More recently, you mentioned it that I just received this Postdoc Association Mentor Award and this was a national award. This really meant so much to me because my three postdoctoral researchers actually took the time to nominate me and write these wonderful letters about me to this organization.

And I think that for me, that really meant so much because it showed me how much they cared and they took time out of their busy schedules to actually say these nice things about me.

things that I never even really thought of that I was doing, but I was just doing it. And so it was very rewarding to actually receive the award. And I got to go in front of a group of people at the national postdoc meeting and receive the award. And my postdocs were there and it was just a really nice thing. That's awesome. So was it a surprise? Did you know you were being nominated? No. No.

Oh, wow. They didn't tell me. I know. I just received the note and congratulations. And then they sent me all their letters after I received the note. Really nice. That's awesome. So they're good at keeping secrets then, which is impressive. Yeah.

Well, congratulations on the success. I think this is a huge honor being recognized nationally for your mentorship, for having a supportive lab environment for postdocs. I think that's awesome. Thank you. So now we've talked a little bit about your research. We've talked a little bit about your lab and your lab experiences. And we've talked a little bit about your life outside of science. And one of the things that I'm always trying to pack more of in my life outside of science is reading.

So, I'm trying to add to my book list. Every guest we have on our program, we try to add a book recommendation. So, Shannon, is there a book that you've read and really enjoyed that me and my listeners should read? Oh, goodness. There are so many.

Besides the Harry Potter series, of course, right? Of course. Well, some of the books that I read when I was just getting started, I was working on emerging infectious diseases and trying to figure out how these new diseases are coming about. And it's particularly relevant with Ebola virus and the Zika virus. But there's a book called The Coming Plague.

by Laurie Garrett. It's kind of about these different diseases and how they emerge and it talks about different aspects of the disease emergence that you wouldn't normally think about like the public health infrastructure and how that might contribute or the ecological environment, things that you wouldn't normally think about that might contribute to the emergence of new infections. Very cool. We will have to add the coming plague

To our reading list. That's awesome. I enjoyed it. It's a big one, but... Yeah. Do you typically gravitate towards some of these books that are more related to your field? No, not really. The Hot Zone, of course, is always a good one too if you're interested in infectious diseases and it's a little bit scary. But no, not usually. I really am reading more scientific papers now.

trying to get papers published. And so I don't really have as much time as I would like to read for pleasure. Gotcha. Well, I know what it's like often snuggling up and falling asleep reading a journal article. You're not alone there. So we've talked a little bit about some of the places that you've gone in terms of your training for your scientific career. But I think there are a lot of opportunities to travel as a scientist. And I love to highlight some of these opportunities by talking about the places scientists have been

So is there one place that really sticks out in your mind, Shannon, that was just the best travel memory from your scientific career? Well, I would probably have to pick Amsterdam. I was asked to go to give a lecture or seminar at a conference that focused on shiga toxin producing E. coli infections in Amsterdam. It was a few years back. I think it was memorable in many different ways. I mean, I love Amsterdam, but the

The talk was very challenging for me because it was the first time I had given a talk to such a large audience. So it was very overwhelming. There were over 500 people in the audience. Wow. I just remember getting up on the stage, my legs were shaking and there was a huge spotlight right in my face.

face, which actually ended up being wonderful because then I couldn't see anyone. Right. You can hide in it. But I was okay. I ended up giving the talk and it went well. And for me, that was kind of a big transition. I knew that I could do it even

even though I was not very sure of myself when I got up there. But it helped me for future presentations. And at the same time, it was a great meeting for me because I got to meet people and hear people speak. These are people that I've read their papers for years and years who were really well-known in the field. And so it was a very exciting opportunity to be able to

meet people that you've been reading their work and following their progress and findings and maybe using their data to generate new hypotheses for your own studies. So in general, it was a great experience. Scary, but a great experience.

Scary and exhilarating at the same time. Right. Well, it's funny. I think that fear of public speaking never really goes away, though, because still every time I get up in front of the class to give a lecture, I'm like, my heart's racing. It's going to be fine, but it never really goes away. Yeah, which is probably a good thing because then it keeps us on our toes and... Forces you to prepare more. Makes us take it seriously. Absolutely.

So now can you tell us, for this conference, it sounds like the scientific part of it was wonderful. Were you able to explore Amsterdam a little bit while you were there? Oh, absolutely. I got to explore it and I really just enjoyed walking around. I mean, I was mostly by myself. I didn't know anyone at the start of the conference, but it was great to just explore the streets and just be kind of one with their culture. Yeah. Did you have a favorite site or thing that you did while you were there?

No, just walking around. I went to the outdoor market, which I always loved. They sell flowers out on the street and it was just nice seeing everybody out and how busy it was and everybody in their day-to-day work and that's how they actually live because it wasn't during the summer, it wasn't during the tourist season.

It was nice to be able to see it as it usually is. Oh, that's cool. Well, it sounds like a wonderful conference experience. And I love chatting about these opportunities because I think not all the people who are interested in pursuing careers in science realize what some of these travel opportunities are. And they're all over the world. You get to meet scientists from everywhere who are equally excited about the same very specific field that you're excited about.

So now can you tell us a little bit more about your lab? And I know there are stereotypes about what scientists are like and what working in a scientific laboratory is like. And I think the more you get to know scientists, the more you realize that a lot of these aren't exactly true. So a lot of scientists are, they're fun, they're quirky, they're exciting to work with. So we love to chat about the fun traditions and just hilarious memories that you shared together. So do you have a story that you could share with us today, Shannon?

One interesting tradition that we have is that we always make sure that we remember birthdays. So sometimes it's after the fact, sometimes I'll miss it, it's a day late, but we always celebrate regardless. So I try to keep a master calendar and I just feel like it's a way to make everyone feel special. But typically this involves me not baking because I don't have time for that, but pick

picking up a cake or calling up our resident cupcake maker to do some baking because she's wonderful. And then we all kind of gather in my office and after awkwardly singing happy birthday, then we just enjoy each other's company and chat. And we usually don't talk about work. We don't talk about science. We just

enjoy each other. And so I always enjoy them. I don't know if they do, but it's a little quirky tradition that we have. I think any excuse for cake is totally well supported. So do you have a favorite birthday cake that you guys usually get? Favorite kind of cake?

It's probably my graduate student, Megan, her cupcakes. I mean, she's amazing. She should really be on a TV show. But sometimes the person who's celebrating the birthday will ask for a certain flavor and she'll whip something up. And so I think so far my favorite has been her key lime creation.

Oh, that sounds amazing. I'm very limited to like box cakes and anything that's four ingredients or less. So I admire that. Yes, that would be me or a quick to the grocery store on the way in. This one looks pretty and done. Yes. And they pretty much know that, you know, Megan's busy when I have to do that. Well, this is a fantastic tradition again to celebrate everyone's birthday. And I think belated birthdays count. They're totally fine. Yeah.

So now we've talked a little bit about the people in your lab and how you enjoy each other's company. And I think it's fun when you get together to talk about things outside of science a little bit. But I think the conversation often comes back to these big questions that you want to answer in science, but maybe you're not able to answer right now.

So Shannon, I'm curious to hear if we took away all the restrictions of things like funding, staff, technology, feasibility, any of the barriers you're facing were not a problem. What is the question that you would want to tackle most? Oh, goodness. That's very difficult because there are so many, I think. I think we have so many unanswered questions and thinking about our projects and what we work on specifically. The idea of

of how we can prevent certain pathogens from causing infection is really important to me, but what I'm finding is that there's no one answer. There's no one way that you can really make a difference. And I think that's because there's so much variation in the humans and who's susceptible to different pathogens and who's not, but also in the pathogen population.

And so finding that magical cure is really, really difficult. And I don't feel that we're ever really close. I feel like we're always kind of touching the surface. We're identifying new things that might be really important in one strain background and how it might attach to the host, for example. And can we block that? But then when you start scanning other bacteria or other pathogens of the same type, you find that they might be using a different mechanism.

Or if you knock it out, they might be using something else entirely that you never thought of.

So, I think for me, answering these questions is going to be really difficult, but it's kind of what keeps us going too at the same time because there are so many questions to address and so many different mechanisms that you can target and in so many different host backgrounds or people or animals who might be a reservoir for a given pathogen. So, there's so much to take into consideration.

We're doing our part little by little. Yeah. Well, and I think too, you brought up a good point too, that things are changing, right? They're not static. So these questions are always evolving as the organism that you're studying is evolving new ways to counteract all these different things we're trying to combat them with. Right.

Right. It's very tricky and complex at the same time. Well, it sounds like you have your work cut out for you. You'll never run out of things to study at this point, Shannon. Right. Keeps me in business, right? Absolutely. So we've talked about different elements of your career. And I think one of the things that really helps people out along the way are some of the mentors that you work with and people that you get to talk to and

They can be phenomenal sources of advice. So Shannon, is there one piece of advice that you received that really helped you that you want to pass on to our listeners today? Well, there was a time when I was considering an academic career and independently, both of my postdoctoral mentors said, you have to believe in yourself. You do have what it takes to be a good independent researcher and that you should pursue this career if that's what you want.

And I think for me, it was easier to believe in myself when I knew that these other people who I really looked up to also believed in me and my ability to succeed. Well, I think that's phenomenal advice out there, not only for students who might be looking up to these mentors, but thinking

But thinking about as they are moving into faculty positions as well, saying out loud the things that you feel about your students, right? Because sometimes you take for granted, you think, oh, they know they're awesome. They know they've got this. But I think sometimes taking a moment to tell them is really beneficial. Exactly. And I think that's something that we could all probably do better. Sure. I know myself too.

That's one thing I love about writing those evaluations where I can really pour my feelings into this written evaluation form that I can give to my students to see how happy they are when they receive it is very rewarding because what it tells me is that I've not been doing a great enough job of telling you how wonderful you are. Right.

Well, Shannon, I think that is great advice and a wonderful story surrounding it. Is there any other last piece of advice you want to leave our listeners with or a last note of inspiration that you want to end our conversation on today?

I guess I would say that there are always going to be challenges to face and there's always going to be a disappointment that you have to get through in the path to success and doing what you love. And if you continue to work hard and do what you believe in, then I think that you'll be just fine along the way. I like it. Well said. Listeners, take this advice to heart. And Shannon, can you tell our listeners if they want to learn more about you and your work, where should they go?

I think it's probably best to do a quick search and probably the easiest words to search would be Manning, MSU and MMG. MMG is my department, the Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics at Michigan State University and all of my information is there. We have some recent publications highlighted on the website as well as my contact information. Excellent. Well, listeners, definitely take advantage of the resources on that website. Get in touch with Shannon if you have questions.

And Shannon, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Well, it was a pleasure to chat with you and listeners. Thanks for joining us as well. We'll see you next time on another episode of People Behind the Science.

Your voyage to explore the lives of today's exceptional scientists has just begun. You can find everything we talked about today, including our guest's favorite books, biographies, photos, and more, when you visit us at www.peoplebehindthescience.com. I look forward to chatting with you next time on People Behind the Science. Music