Based and Microchipped: How RFK Took Over Politics | PIRATE WIRES EP#6
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Our vaccines, microchips and do they give you cancer is arf care next president? I don't know. Maybe let's get into IT.

Uh welcome back to the party wires pod today. I've got this wolf of reason magazine and our very own river page from pie wires. Um how did you guys both for all river, you have no choice, please. Thank you so much for joining the city day.

I had a bigger fix so much.

So I R, F, K has just kind .

of like taken over .

the landscape. I would say if these sort of entire, I don't know, media mind space in, I think as you kind of this sort of summarized in a video that are about to get into the details of of your video that became a sort of explosive topic conversation on twitter. Um IT is a collect mix and sort of tech luminaries and strAngely sort of libertarians and very strAngely to have in entire establishment italians. I mean, the man is a candidate. It's like very weird how he got to be the uh, establishment belt the ball.

And the big thing, I think the probably most famous thing in unfairly I would say that he is uh sort of known for on his wikipedia of right away just he is a vaccine um conspiracy theorist uh now maybe that is a big part of he does obviously but I think it's kind of crazy that that's the one thing that he's not for a waking get into that in the second um but I do want to have a conversation about just how this man has has captured the attention of a amErica and ah I want to talk about some of these claims and I really want to talk about the reaction that people like you are receiving, liz. Um for pushing back in spaces that should be amenable to that kind of push back given his political beliefs, which are for the most part not in keeping with the entire establishment folks. Um so yeah let's just get into IT.

You I saw your video as of a couple weeks to go. Now where was maybe a week ago? Is that when you sort .

IT was a week to go? But IT feels like it's been an eternity with the amount of .

healing every day. It's like a new war for you now just walked me through. I mean so like ark comes to he doesn't interview a and then you follow on with your just like a breakdown of his positions um what you think I mean I could walk us through that so we have a sense of a substance before we given to IT.

So like many good things at reason, this all actually third with madwell. She's the one to blame. You know, many months ago as orf k was sort of beginning to gain some traction weirdly in the polls, mt. Walsh wrote his strange new respect piece, which basically was like a classic, well, tian, media criticism and peace chronically.

Like why is IT that we're sing, tablet and national review when a bunch of the sick bali dudes kind of seeing really fun of R F K when from basically two thousand and five up until like yesterday, he was sort of dismissed as a little on um and so so welch was really focused on that sort of like rehabilitation torn and was sort of internal what's going on here, what's appealing about ark know obviously a big part of that has to do with all of case, you know are into opposition to lock downs vaccines, medical, which is know a prior that we reason absolutely share. I mean, melt also was writing, you know, in opposition to that. I was writing in opposition to that.

We onesta took a lot of heat from a lot of people on the left and lot of friends, which is totally fine. You know, that's part of the role that with hertz ans play in the discourse. And then my video was in the worst.

I went on rising the T, V show and talked about to R, F, K A little bit, and I said of, didn't really understand the beehive I was touching. And that was when the first sort of swarm attacked me, just absolutely grabbed D, R, F, K, fans. And I was like, wow, that's kind of barre of interesting.

I didn't know that ah this inspired almost a berny grow level of of intensity and so I put a video in the works and had been researching arf case record a little bit. I just wanted something that was fairly that his record, but also looked okay. You know, he's good on some level to libertarians, but if he were actually the one in the White house, what types of policy would he be making? Obviously, from a foreign policy perspective, he has pretty good entire work on a fine.

So I can understand why libertas might be sympathetic, but on a domestic policy front, there's a lot not to like. And I was really interested in trying to give and even handed assessment of all of these simple component, not being overly fixated on anyone particular thing, not being overly fixated on his vaccine track record in his writings in the early odds on that, or being overly fixate on the foregone policy or overly fixate on the domestic. I wanted to just kind um because sort of how we treat presentin candidates and then his campaign did reach out to Nicholas sy and sacque smaller my colleagues at reason they engaged with him be an interview nick runs our interview products.

Uh he runs the whole interview podcast and him and act to a live stream every thursday. And so that seems like the most appropriate a format to engage with him. I'm actually really glad they did a like a recorded interview because IT allows our viewers to really get a sense of arf k in his own words.

I think so frequently there's medium about practice going on where people are excepting what he's saying and then they're adding a lot of editor realizing in there. And mine was obviously like a an intensity critical editorial ized peace. But I think that it's important for readers and viewers to have a full, robust sense of the man. And i'm glad that they got the opportunity to sit through and our LG interview with him and actually hear him in his own words. I think at a reason we have had a few different ways, engaging with this candidate is a really weird and interesting kennett and honestly, looking forward to all the different ways were going to keep .

engaging with him. Well, I mean, first, it's at there's an application that you think you need to be doing well as the election season progresses.

He might. He might not. I do think that the thing that's not going away, regardless of what happens to his candidacy, is there is this whole group of people.

There's the L A guth palter, we gup types. There is the people who were never particularly radical on the vaccine questions, but covet vaccine Mandates. You know, people attempting to converse them in the vaccinating their six year old kind of ratios them and made them very suspicious and distrusting of the public. There were a lot of people who are abandoning the left in droves post code um in addition to some of like the old school anti taxes that maybe were we know really big in the nineties and sort of have continued to to persist in those beliefs. So it's not just one type of person that is attracted to ara ki yeah ah and I don't think that, that phenomenon going away, there's a lot of people to feel under represented.

You said something more time ago that I would the resent with me, and I think it's really the case here. He is he's the canada he's talking about about what happened with covet. He is the canada who is forcing us to as an as a nation have that conversation or maybe even just allowing us as a nation to have that conversation because it's like a lot of its been memory hold.

So you had coercive vaccination, right? You you had people being forced to get a vaccine to keep their job throughout the contrary. Uh, that was IT was a really scary time.

There was a there A A huge kind of, I think, like authoritarian only that we now kind of looking back or are just pretending didn't happen to maybe heal as a gnc to kind of move forward. It's weird that you don't see a lot of that from the right, even uh, it's just I mean people are are just trying to get pass copy in our case. Like no, like we need to talk about the vaccines.

We need to talk about the fact we are force to take the vaccines ah, we need to talk about the being locked indoors and and everything else. I that does appeal to a certain kind of person who just wants to see um I don't want to say revenge, uh, consequences. I guess they want to see accountability.

They want someone is to be like, yes, I was responsible for that and then we can say you're fired, moving on. And because of that, because he's the only one is willing to not have been willing. I would say he's like quite enthusiastic about this stuff. He loves talking about that. Because of that, maybe people are willing to overlook a lot of the other stuff um or even because of that the erratically zed on the other stuff you know when someone says something that you really agree with and everybody else is likes you like, yes, he's got to be right and then he says, you know also is anx causes school shootings and you're like, oh, I don't know maybe like you think like a dress .

worthy guy yeah I think that there's something obscenely disrespectful about what like Randy wine garden is doing, for example, or what a bunch of people so the teachers teachers union had hand show of the A, F, T. Who basically know for the last few months has been engaged in, well, we didn't really want to keep schools cause we were actually the teachers union. We were really interested in school.

We're opening. And it's just like, do you think that parents are stupid? You like you must, right? There is no other explanation for why you would be trying to work on your record like this. I .

like the M S N B C guy. Uh, what do they like to stay with the big ones talking about how also it's it's very related, uh, how it's a Chris, Chris talking about how there was no violence, right? There were no that everyone, the republicans want to talk about how the cities were burning and what not in and that just didn't happen.

IT was like IT was very calm and you know it's all over blown. IT is very this is related in that it's like those years, I think things are actually much Better than the ending years, but those years like twenty, twenty was insane. Like i'm never going to forget IT for as long as I live. And and the fact that they you have so many people committed to the straight up gas lighting you now IT is main IT is like. Yeah.

I great river. What Chris hayes actually said is that people on the love to were quietly saying that they didn't approve of the riots. And i'm like what I was like very in the love like i'm the social life at the time, writing for like a long, small, like marches magazine.

And I was on the people in the love you was actually saying, like, know, these rights are bad. You actually like what to, you know, appeal to work in class people who you say, or like your base of support, or even like on the far off your like revolutionary project or whatever. Um burning down their cities is not the way to do IT. And I like got dogs for that like I got just completely mobile and I go online .

for all of that and yeah there's a strong just blocking step commitment to rewriting history. And the crazy thing, and is something we write about a lot here piece, is, uh, in the context of technology that makes IT easier than ever to actually rewrite history. That's pretty scary.

You know, the actual sort of the the internet, the art effects on the internet um are singing out. We have less evidence, you know tweet are deleted, the clipsed vanish from youtube and it's like the stuff is like sand through your fingertips and all you have is your memory. But it's like, I know what I saw.

It's like I know that hate street was boarded up. I know that people lost their jobs. I know that I was told I was an anti venture, not because I was suspicious of the vaccine, but because I didn't think people should be forced to get IT. Um that is just uh and that I think I think that's the enduring power right now, nothing in doring but that is I think the power of R F K right now is is he's saying, no.

you're right that happened. Yeah and the thing that slow is that R F K is super non specific in what he actually once done about IT. And this is one of the big comes that I have with R F K. You see this even with some of his criticism of like the C A, which I think is in some cases reasonable, but his response frequently for how to fix the rot within these institutions is like, oh, would like, you know, but Better people in them. And it's like, really that's IT like you're saying that the city is part of the deep state and that he, like killed a bunch of members of your ami yeah and your work is like we need to Better see A H R. Department like to me IT seems like I mean, obviously if he had the right takeaway uh from so these things, he would just be laboratory like us, right so no, I i'll be understating of the back that not everybody comes to the same conclusions but to me that's not a very satisfying response and I wish that he had more tangible specifics for how Randy wine garden ought not not to be empower anymore or how public health of visuals like avi fouche ought to be punish for ways in which he misled the public.

Oh, his dollar in law A C A agents really. And yeah I read about her. I I refused her. I read an article about the C A A um and sort like laying ledge in uh for american affairs coup leaders back and I actually kind of like review her book and um and yeah I mean she's like an old money sort of goal and it's it's hard for the course um say stuff which is that it's always been like a culturally liberal organization just they I um but yeah this is sn spare T I agent or former one so I I I mean I do think like it's interesting that in kind of cool in a way that he's like the C A A killed my uncle and my dad and like yeah I also believe that but um I like it's called that Kennedy is saying that but on the other it's like OK. But then now you're just lend these people in your family like body.

Where is the what is the truth of there's a lot of it's an information war. So i've heard a lot of things that are probably not true about Kennedy. One is that, you know, it's like he's criticizing vaccine.

He's gotten in themselves for that. Since he's criticised, he's got to stuff. I mean, what is does he live? I mean, does he practice what what he preaches? Um do that you have a sense of that.

I think that so so my thought and it's very hard for me to O S, but my thought is the R F K on a personal vel seems like somebody I would love to hang out with. He does falkiner. He lives in a baller house in mosley.

He has a bunch of animals, he said, devoted catholic, like, I feel like we, he's very eloquent. I feel like we'd have a lot to talk about. Super interesting guy. I think on the vaccines question, I mean, he talks about one sound but that he throws out of war I believe he said this on all in he said this on rogan um you know his when he was a child being vaccinated, he only got three or four vaccine but his children they received seventy two um and so the child and in the point that he's making is from the one thousand nine hundred fifties when he was born up until like the nineties when his kids were born, know the child hod vaccination schedule has she's absolutely exploded my two thoughts because I I did a lot of digging into what the immunization schedule of cite in california and in new york and in places where he has raised his kids, in places where he has lived um and like i'm not totally sure where he's getting that seventy two number from. In fact, you would think that somebody who was so suspicious of vaccines, so I understand that he initially had a sort awakening in two thousand and five.

So maybe not you know totally at the beginning of having kids, but you would think that you know if that were the case, you would be skipping flu shots, seasonal flu shots which by the way, no poly school mean dates that you have those um he would absolutely be be skipping coped vaccinations for his kids, particularly like teenage boys which makes a lot of sense for enough. Um you know i'm not totally sure where he's getting that seventy two number from. Most of the states that I looked at require like eighteen, nineteen, twenty doses in order to enter schools and you can get religious exemptions uh if you feel strongly about .

that he plays there's A A sort of trickery with logic thing that he does. And there are two examples I have one I saw for the first time in your video um IT was in the content of the polio vaccine where he said, you know, most of the polio that we received now we get from vaccines and that's something that I looked into a while ago because when I first heard I was like, wow, that sounds messed up. Is that true? And it's like IT is true.

But like in context, it's it's it's so it's first, all the numbers are like miniscule because polio S S basically eradicated because of the vaccine. Second of all, this is like what he's talking about are people getting polio from other people who have, I think, done to the bathroom, right? It's like mostly through sewage who had this one specific kind of polio vaccine that is not even in amErica and um and there are only a few cases and as you mentioned in the video, they only affect people um even this is like very rare of being only affects people who have haven't been vaccinated for polio s so it's like the positive community. And I guess who else was the other one that you mentioned?

I I mean, I was mainly the hesitated community both in rocklin colony in upstate new york and in south wilms' g in the city. And that was an interesting case because so many of these um you know the the more recent little tiny pockets of U S. Polio, you like new york health authorities seem to believe that they were contracted an ultra th ox to travelling somewhere I believe maybe in israel um and yeah yeah contract in three sort of and bringing .

IT back in that way. We and we also are we I don't think that we actually at this point there really.

really you should be are we .

I think that they stopped doing that because we eradicated IT.

My kid is vaccine for polo. I'm like.

get okay, you're right. Yes, i'm thinking about I think small pox, maybe they stop giving a three the .

other point that I would make on this sexy thing is like, hey, the fact that the immunization schedule exploded from nineteen fifty to like one thousand and ninety. Maybe that's evidence that like our vaccine technology improved, right? Like there were a bunch of things that we just like didn't have access to in the forties and the fifties, like in a mr.

T debt. Like these vaccines have really developed over time in the fact that we have access to Better technology for things that are legitimately pretty serious, like missile outbreaks are not so good. That's a big thing.

And I totally i'm totally open to the criticism of like you know, we have many olic disorders, have ought to immune disorders. We need to get the bottom of this type of thing. I think doctor Peter a tea does a really good job approaching that. But or if k in IT, his his specific vaccine complaints are just they're not very precise and he he plays very fast and loose with questions. I think.

for example, it's statistic that he studies well enough to understand what also implying versus what he's actually what he's implying. This is what he's saying like he knows the distinction there. He's implying that polio vaccine are causing polio and that's our only source of IT.

But like the data is says that the polio vaccine is basically eradicated polio. And do not be honest about that. One little thing is just really frustrates me.

That reminds me of the sex causes school shooting stuff of the S. S. R, I think, causes school shootings. And here it's like, I, so I i'd made a comment about this when he did a twitter spaces in one of my pieces for piret wires, and someone to for his campaign hit me up. And I was so long, angry email, like just breaking IT down.

And you know, it's like, how dare you email? And here's the data that says, you know, all of the school shooters have been on these drugs. And it's like, well, is IT possible that all of the school shooters who are mentally ill have had an encounter with a doctor who is like, hey, you mentally ill? Maybe we should be on medication for that.

And IT is just like that doesn't mean that the medication causes school shooting. IT means that, like the kinds of people who do school shootings are more likely to be in the doctor's office getting drugs for their crazy as mental illness. Like most people who are on that I like, it's crazy that I have to even say this that like most people who are prescribe them, ics are not trying to shoot to school up.

It's like IT almost but even and likes but even having the frame IT that way IT feels IT like legitimizes the conversation in some way where it's like, I think we should look into. I think I think so i'd disagree with you slide. I think that there are way too many vaccines right now.

I think a lot of them happen and studied. I am very suspicious about certain things I don't want to mention on this podcast right now. We're going to walking the listed and band.

I want more data. I want to .

actually look at IT. I have real conversations about IT in things like an exon all the the mental illness drugs that whole entire like pav yond of them including things like at all like I am suspicious of this stuff but um I don't like the distortion of logic here IT really bothers mean IT makes me not trust anything else he has to say.

Oh, totally I mean, if you've seen me on like like if i'm this pylon on zn x, consider me without zn x right like like there's also that component to IT, which is like do we actually want to make sure that these mentally old people are taken off of their drugs? That argument help them? I don't know. Is that a Better alternative?

Well, he has like this Cosmology that makes his opposition to the pharmacy tics industry, which I do think is corrupt and fucked up and has a lot of issues um but he IT he turned into almost an ideology it's like uh to wear like farmers to blame for like basically all social ills. It's like blaming capitals of our Whites of prema y or big government or whatever. It's like the same thing.

Where is this one institution that's causing everything? I mean even his own like uh, this phonny. I like his voice being kind of bus stop he blames out on the vaccine. It's like do your own heroin for like twenty years, you know? I mean like IT, there is like plenty of friend.

Friend is sare. She's like that's not a vaccine that he was smoking crack. Like that is just a hundred. Like she's convinced.

yeah. I mean, there's like IT is also um he had a family member who had the same thing. So I could also be genetic. It's like there's like so and it's a really rare disease. So it's like if you had to like IT I think was and he had IT was like got a family over, add this really weird rare disease, why would that not be the first thing or all the drugs you tired instead of like the vaccine that almost everybody in amErica thought it's such a strange thing.

This was something I was thicky about when I was still looking into the autism rates claim made by or of k and I think it's actually really interesting. We know for a fact. And the economist ely oster is written on this.

I believe that downed dure rates have increased as age of first child has as like maternal age, which you have your first child has increased. So, you know, I was twenty six to nine of my son. okay? My odds of having a childhood done center at eight twenty six are extremely low.

My odd age forty six or a lot higher um and and that's just like as we see you know, I am not saying that this is a that there's a case to be made for you know regulating uh this away or trying to use any sort of like pro or anti needless policy to regard any of these things are to do any sort of social engineering. But like we observe this happening that the age of which people start having kids is just know getting like higher over time. And we know for a fact that this is a component that is you at play with increasing dance in the rates.

And there's also some evidence to indicate that IT is part of the puzzle in why we're seeing increased rates in autism over time. I think that this absolutely deserves further study. But it's odd for R, F, K to just neglects to mention these things that are like, actually, these aren't alternative science world facts. These are things that people generally agree on.

There are also a lot of people who are being diagnosed with autism or that i've met there are really they are like i'm autistic. I am like if you're autistic that i'm fucking this because of the same level here, right? It's a total .

benefit to us us, right? My mother is school .

for autism. Em, my summer there, my dad work there, my sister work. And autism, like I I know what IT I know IT classically presenting autism is and it's like you can't function and IT is a part of your family forever now, like you've got ta take care of this person to some extent, even the highest functioning people in the sort of classically presenting world.

One student my mom was really excited about, like he got a job at a post office and couldn't hold IT down. And that's the top student, right? We are the people who are non verbal at times.

It's a heart to party, train people and this is a totally separate subject. But he does really frustrate me when I see people using autism as like an identity signifier on twitter and having like a coherent conversation about IT from their job they are holding down. It's like call IT IT has to be need to call IT something else.

It's like it's just it's like make up some new term and beat that thing. Like that's not what i'm talking about when i'm talking about atis, i'm talking about those kids that I grew up around and i'm talking about their family really who they have to take care of. Its hard to be the sibling or the obviously the mother and father a lot.

His marriage is struggle. Uh when you have a kid who needs so much and um and I do just a lot of them do have similar stories about their kid functioning in a way that is totally typical until they develop a sickness bowling a shot. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I am saying you can only hear that story so many times every single year, every single generation before I think you look at IT like I I understand where where the questions are coming from. Um I understand IT like you just you do see you again and again .

a paralo that I think is so much it's obviously submit serious but is the way that women's period administration was talked about post coffee shops where we saw pretty widespread reports in the first this was just circulated in group chats and be a edit forms of women saying, hey, look, i've been regular for my entire adult life and then I got this mr.

A vaccine and I just haven't had a period in five months and maybe they were using the rythm method, whatever to track like like you know your administration data is useful to you um and there is a little bit of this storing sense of like what we a second I got that vaccine and then now i've seen this unprecedented disruption and for a long time um but the mainstream media really directed ted this and in hand wave did away um and and now there spend some more evidence that come out and I think you are times as an a decent job of reporting on this that basically says, no, this wasn't in people's heads. This was a real side effect. We're not totally sure why IT happens, but it's that type of thing. We're like I think both you and air on the same page where it's like these areas just deserve more steady when there's like mysterious things happening in the wild and people are concerned in their bodies, in their health, are affected by its very, very human and natural to want answers.

Yeah let's talk about the censorship. I think it's a really interesting I think it's really important point um because there is here we are having a conversation that I think is like fairly critical of R F K and that's possible like we can sit here and listen to his claims and judge them. Um but what happens when he is sensor, you know when a podcast is removed, uh, when h he's banned from a platform, whatever else he is is A I validates his entire world, right?

If validates, it's like it's like the man is trying to keep the truth from you and it's it's just like all that does is make me want to a look at IT, right? All that does is make me want to believe in because it's so inferiority that someone is telling me that I am not smart enough or capable enough to assess the data on my own or like make a judge call on my own. Um what do you guys both make of just the role that censorship has played in in making him bigger and maybe in general, right, the role that censorship has played in making celebrities out of out of certain kinds of people online?

I feel I get the more you get cancelled like cancellable 是 if you are like a certain degree of like intelligence or whatever， like you can just make a cancellation word to your effect. Like like you can use that to raise your profile. You can use IT or whatever.

I was a cancellation, but also censorship. And when he comes to R F K, I mean, the vaccine stuff, I think is somewhat he's been centered over. But I also think that there people now because all of that sort of over, I think a lot of people, uh borgian centering him over maybe some of the thought over like cry and stuff .

like that which are they have .

have they been going after the war stuff uh he's been critical for i've seen um because he I mean he said what is I I believe is true and I agree with um which is that you know we basically in circles with russia which we said we would not do after collapse of the soviet nan an and that in some ways we sort of created this situation um but how can we not do that .

the entire of free world is it's like rush over, like a whole other conversation. I just don't I really so this is the thing. This is what happens. So I ve got to find that kind of thing.

What you just say, the art of the position that the correct assessment I finally likes, just so frustrating like why are you blaming us for this? I'm not saying that we should go to war with with russia. I don't think that we should.

But the idea that there is any blame at all for evading another country other than the people who fucking did IT is just easy to me. And and so then that rage that i'm having now is like that's what's feeling. That's what's feeling the censorship.

It's not like it's too dangerous to hear that opinion. It's like I just don't like IT. And if I have power, if I have too much power, I can act on that impulse.

And that is really dangerous situation. As a situation with an end of the last few years, I think we're kind of coming out of IT. But I don't know all of me if you want to beat the let's get into the ukraine ine thing, uh, is that or if you are comment on the censorship stuff.

yeah I mean, I think it's I think it's totally IT IT gives more fuel to the fire, right? I mean, we see this over and over again. The comparison, and I keep drawing, is alex Jones.

I went to alex students, movie premier in Austin. And alex is war. Glen Green wall inner viewed alex Jones. I walked away feeling like this was not in any way compelling. I walked await, knowing way more about alex Jones, but not finding myself, believing the things he was espousing.

And i'm so grateful that I was able to attend that type of thing that I live in america, where I can go to just this odd ball, weird movie premier with all these like all right celebrities and kind of understand their world. Be a little bit more IT was absolutely wild. A really interest experiences. But it's stunning to me that alan Jones continuously get c platform um that all of these big top companies are sort of and again.

the communities nature of the a platforming how much that E O in in, in damages for saying that the people are. I like IT was some extraordinary .

the man's cat video. The F, B, I was like, chAllenges your cat or sic. IT was like to two thousand dollars, but we'd offer part of .

but I think was like literally something crazy like a billion dollars or one point four billion dollars. That's crazy. He doesn't point four billion dollars like you are just stayed up like how can we that's not even you don't even care about.

I just at that point, that's a sign to everybody else. It's like, don't you fucking dare say something that we don't like? We will destroy your entire life, your kids lives you're going to take you to at like you will never recover from this.

Fox used as order order to pay less in the dimensions suit, right? Like that's an insane amount of ably fox users already to pay less and they still had the fire. But should people in order to make that and right? Yeah, I mean, it's it's stunning to me but but you just basically make IT so that alestra as ruler as a result, right? You make IT so that he has more um of a sense of marter demand, a sense of being spawned by the accomplishment.

And I fear that it's the exact cine type of thing that's happening with rk 9 year。 In no world is this man's ideas so dangerous that he, you know, should not be able to us say them. Or or rather you, we should look at the real world effect because I think actually children's held their hazard.

And of vaccine skeptics ism, which has I think you could make the argument that IT has resulted in you know some more vaccine refusal in the united states and little pockets of like mussels outbreaks, which leads to bad consequences, right? So I think you can make that case. But still we have to consider, okay, the people who might be inclined to um be skeptical of vaccines if we just pushed children's health defense and ark jor deeper underground. Do those people's feelings suddenly go away or did they just find other ways of seeking out those resources in that information?

I think this is some libertarians really want to believe. They want to believe that if if you, if you sensor people, IT makes IT. So the stuff comes out like your information can be stopped, but like the reality is you actually can sensor its will.

China is right there, right? It's like they've succeeded. We see there is a technological censorship, helsa pe and none ely that. But there are. So since ious just due to sort of the nature of capitalism in the free market is free fish market, uh, our own companies have started to sensors so they can sell into the chinese market. You have china, you have disney films changing in, uh, in keeping with the ethos of communist china.

So I think it's like censorship is possible and that's what that scares me IT scares me that they're it's like it's not working for Alice Jones right now where in the age of the internet， things were pretty wild still. Uh, I think that there's it's like if this doesn't work, there are just they're na come in harder and they will succeed. And we've already seen the kinds of things they think about throughout covered, right? It's like there is there are all of these moments where they really failed and uh, and they said, I guess my microsoft st just like a censorship will work and we will be worse for IT.

I think that's a fair critical when I think climate italians of of you know Operating in good fh can disagree on this one.

No and I should just say i'm not a laboratory like at all. I like I think we should like completely nascar r and energy. Yeah I made my disagree about another time but um I I will say I look at I don't think that ark is dangerous. I don't think that um I Jones is dangerous. I can to see a similar arty to between the two I find them both compelling ing, but for by different reasons. I mean R F K, if you just take his positions on paper, with the exception of foreign policy um in which the democratic parties become very hawkish, um his positions are really not that much different than like a pretty around the medal democratic kind of um really shows on the other hand he believes like a auto can crazy stuff that argue them is like a show me and like and like I I grew up like in these taxes like in a babtist church and like I C talks like a like an old school like venture local preacher like he s way like inflecting and I don't I don't know like there's like something I think is one of the greatest broca's ers after like I just I think he's like a the entertainer I think that he deserves credit for like bringing things to the public conscious ness which are true and would get sound like conferences but art like I mean who else like in you know um that really also was like talking about why the north of age project entail work .

on hemi and growth which was really interesting like that was sort of his break out .

moment right .

right yeah because I saw maybe this or disagree eed with the standard democratisation of R F K. Um what lame out what I I know that he's a Green new deal guy. I know that he's like a tax the rich guy.

I know that he's anti war, and I know that he thin. You know, zn x causes school shooting. These are like roughly the things that I know about. F, K.

I mean, so a few other policy positions. He is a little bit of a foot popper on guns. I think he keeps trying to sort of realized that like a lot of his base at present is conservative libertarian ish.

And so he keeps trying to sort of like you actually look at his sound bites from a few years back and then you look at the ones today and he's he's very foot hoppy on that. You know, you look at one thing that I think the left is very divided on right now. And i'm very curious as to which we we're going to go, whether were going to go, you know, an emulate for answer, emulate germany.

The nuclear question, I think, are of case is a really ordinary anti nuclear voice and was actually one of his crowning achievements in his environmental career, was being a huge opposition force to the indian point power plane in new york, right? Like this is not a side note. I think if were actually on that.

either he he's, he's gone in, he's gone in deeper, in harder and what he was like some, he s some weird. It's like he doesn't want the people in charge of bit to be in charge of you or something. IT was like IT was like IT seems like it's it's a it's an issue with with the people running nuclear more than IT is about the science. Is that correct?

IT started even clear to me. He's pretty, in my view, inconsistent on this. Ah he also caused a lot of doubt like the safety of of nuclear um waste disposal methods and stuff like that which by the way I love that there has been this trend in the last few years of like objectively beautiful ladies who are like nuclear influenced obvious and then miss amErica and then I know there's some other like pregnant nuclear influence or gal who is specifically like posing with nuclear ways what is like three months pregnant or three in our pregnant yeah .

we're working. We are working on a peace with both of that right now.

Oh, perfect. amazing. But it's like absolutely fascinating that this has become like it's like hot girl nuclear summer like I love this and just precisely the thing we need. Yeah yeah but no, I mean, I think you can also look at like arf kate, so I can everywhere. I actually very much agree with him, but I know he's gotten a lot of heat from the left is his support for cyp to um and he spoke with the big in miami conference, my college White miler and I produce a documentation where we incorporate some of his comments you know relatively positively. But the fact that he's come out as such a force uh, in favor of the big win community, especially as the increasingly facing all kinds of S C C crackdowns, is interesting especially because a lot of environmentalists really, apart from arka on this one, they at the environmental cost of crypto mining and I think wrongly see IT as a huge environmental threat but that kind of something that I think he's going .

to need to contend with this some point right um but his positions are unlike domestic social policy, are basically may you can not too far love not too far I am probably actually to love and buy in a little but because you know biden wanted to uh you know like perform like so security medicare he does that um he I think wanted he's have been talking about like expanding look food thanks or something like that um so yeah he's a pretty sort like the social democratic tradition of his dad and O P J and sort of that the democratic party to think and he's doing the classic Kennedy dances that we've seen .

so many times of four of like i'm not like other catholic like i'm a little pro choice y but not too pro choice y which might be just right for the moment. I don't know.

it's crazy. The funniest thing about that I remember when uh I believe was john kerry a was trying to be like a pro choice catholic and. Um the church was like you can't come to you can't take community anymore yeah .

I thread up like like that you don't .

mess don't mess the cap church on this stuff and it's people want to think to have the cac church. I think this is hard core right wing thing and it's actually just really weird, right a weird combination of things that don't map to american politics. Pro choice is A A no that's like a hard no.

It's like one of it's not one of the few, but it's like one of the main hard knows from the catholic urge. But it's also like they're like pro immigration um like open borders. Ask especially for the welfare countries like the america.

I'm pretty sure that if you were to ask them about like to strike up the public asking right like wealth are policies. I think it's like very high, like lots of IT just give the money away. I Christian, at the end of the day is like, how could you be a jesus guy and you're like, but don't tax the rich like I just.

I mean, the church I grew up in my way thought that caplets were degenerate because they drink.

And church you from the deep south, right? Like it's southern. Like protestant. I mean, these are people who still probably believe catholic shouldn't running president.

My granda or my great grandma never voted for republic. And because SHE is sort of like the old like dicky crowd like mindset, I ask something I don't know but like you said, you vote for for um for J F K. I think he said he didn't SHE didn't care for him being a cafe like but .

he did want a what exam this oh, I was just asking .

for more details about the church. You are .

asking missier babis church. So it's like A R congregation's st um uh officium separated from the southern babies convention because they thought that the southern babies have gotten to liberal um so they're .

like more conservative .

than the certain that is in every respect except for that like during a jim crow like they were like to shared out the urge there is more interpreted racily but and every other is effect very conservative like my mom isn't allowed to go to prom, got pregnant, teen became so heard that was a preacher, you know I don't know how to was .

there any speaking in tongues or no?

That was strictly banned. It's very kind of like ostia a little bit like that that's seen as like performative. And um how do .

you IT right? Doesn't IT just happen come out of now?

I mean, they there a controversy is before I was warm and tell about IT in the nineties that had become like a thing that some people want to do, and they were like expert from a church, uh, because they were like, no, you can't do that here. You just kind of see your people and you like sing the homes and people and Angel and then and is a which burning .

out back yeah I cousins .

who are I like panic cos though and like they didn't do stake handling at their church but they would go to like revivals with the stake handling and stuff well yeah .

I like accidently ah have discovered that pancakes als are absolutely dope just to hang with which is unit and because like I like great can do all kinds of Normal things but like there is a certain and a costal secret spiciness that that comes out so i'm .

very the one that churches, though right, isn't like everything White and plane. And who's that the fifty adventists, maybe speakers advance.

I came up .

in the catholic church and my sense of atheism is just, I believe, the best. It's like we're talking about magic incense, giant stone status, cathedral ceiling stained glass like you walk into a cap c churching. You're like, oh yeah, god definitely exists. Um I love that shit and i'll just never forgive the protesters for their dad are they came .

out of like the black church tradition. So it's actually like you go if you even if you go to mostly wipe and a closer church IT feels like clear and like a black church because you worked like seeing and dancing and like literally running like around and like falling out and like it's very like the atra introvert. Um it's actually it's actually like growing up in the type of search I did. You was actually kind of fun to like occasionally like the search, like cousins is like a little bit of them to right when in there because you don't know was going .

to have but yeah yeah I was just going to say I go to a catholic church in like new eda SOHO area and so it's like all the goodest tics of cathos m coupled with all the goodest dcs of like SOHO. And so it's just like it's a lot it's like not not what you would a typically expect for the churchy population. And I tried to bring my fashion a game every sunday.

Um I want to I want to rap with a for me just like the enduring question of R F K, which is not him or as policies or even why he's resonating broadly, which I do think is I do think is the vx it's like the copy in the vaccine thing just just a win being went to have this conversation. Um I think a lot of people feel like they shouldn't have taken the vaccine.

A lot of men, I think specifically a lot of a lot of parents who have Young boys like things like that. I think IT was like, why did we do this? Why didn't we just give IT to you out of like obese people in the elderly?

Um and why were we forced to do IT? Why lose our jobs for doing IT? Why would we locked inside for so long? What happened with the school is Randy like we've got to do something about these teacher's unions and he's speaking to that, but that's like a general thing.

Why is he so popular among the entire establishment? right? IT seems crazy.

He he's a Kennedy. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand how this happened.

I when I was getting into arf case, uh, vaccine stuff, I was reading his book the real and dani foul chi, I like that isn't like memetic conflict with another White ethnic like I felt that's very like old school northeastern ort vive.

Ah yes, irish first italian is the northeast man. This is what happens up there and marry each other and they find each other.

Yeah um but so he's he got into um the vaccine stuff I ve found sort of like, okay. So it's like the flu vaccine has like a the amount of mercury, like a kind of tuna and like this is what's causing whatever I doubt to me. I was just like i'm not sold. But I really got interesting when I got into chapter five of the real Anthony file too, which is hide of the v harasses, which opens up with a quote about this circle of delusion by, uh, inclusion brand, which but um is I he starts with, uh I hesitated, include this chapter because any question of the old H I V A cause of the remains unforgivable, even dangerous .

the word is IT and he goes .

on to say it's underived that african is is an entirely different disease. And western ates, where's western AIDS? And western where's AIDS? And western countries continue to be a disease of drag galactic.

How xul with women reporting only sixteen percent of U. S. In european its cases in africa, fifty nine percent of eighth cases are women, eighty five percent of cases occuring at the rosettes remaining fifty percent children.

No one has explained how a disease largely can find to build some sexual in the west is a female error, sexual disease in africa. And like, I can explain that i'm just like a regular, although i'm not even a doctor like I was in bopping. It's really listen if you think that the black guys of deal in the bena, you should see humans in bob. I you know what I mean, there's not there's the most the african guys are closeted. There's like very the women and importantly at the sirra african republican whenever like in the saviors did not have what new ork inside from cisco had the seventies, which is giant neighborhoods of nothing but gay guys going and like having orgies and like bath houses and stuff because it's not happening in board issue.

still happening. Oh my good as my husband went to to a straight man, to clarify, went to the mail only hour at the song of that he goes to in manhattan, this ones big my g oh my god he said he was just like every flues everywhere cry.

yeah.

maybe .

R.

F, go. It's the same. It's like when you hear these stories are just like, come on, guys like we've got to like having jobs and shut out here like just like lock IT down. He does this .

great thing everywhere where it's like he does so much cover your ass type heading, right like he is the king of that, the master that we even saw this with this sort of an anti semitic al little funky comments at the upside dinner party, uh, over this past weekend that the new york post was writing about but talking about how you know like the chinese and the oscan oi jews were spared uh from copy and its like a told that to like china and israel's death toll like what are you talking about the action study that he was was talking about, you know doesn't really say the thing that he claims uh that you know COVID was something that attack that was ethnically targeted but he distance herself saying some people say there is a here yeah.

yeah, that's crazy. I don't think that I was simmer because I think he also listed like the army and like sinnes h people or something like he was like and he's also like a uncritical like supporter of israel in a way that I actually disagree with a lot of ways. But he is I don't think that he's an anti semi. I think that was like kind of a hard job, but I do think that he's crazy. You're thinking that covered .

is like an ethically is yes.

Yeah.

he's saying that it's a it's like him conspiracies everywhere because of his family trauma, I believe is is the root of all of .

this in is the most Normal Kennedy, because if like my family died under similar rescuing sences, I think I probably .

yeah first news every night talking about the crazy should our government did. But the thing about the ethic bioweapon thing is like IT frustrates me because people hear that and they're like, obviously, it's I I not obviously and I want to, you know, maybe we will have some guy on here.

Biologists, we can talk about the complexity of whether or not covered was a bioweapon engineered by the chinese government, who knows? But IT is possible to do that actually. And and it's or lets to say IT is conceivable that something like that can happen. And what we definitely know is possible as it's possible to create new viruses.

And I think that like we are living in a time now where we should be talking about that, like the crazy thing about covet to me is that we aren't having a serious conversation about gaining of functional research and whether or not we should be doing IT at all. And like what's going on. And all of these labs like that was the real frustration with not being able to talk about lab league.

But not because it's like I just want to talk about something and I must suppose to talk about. It's like I want to make sure this doesn't happen again. And how do you make sure this doesn't happen again if you're not interrogating what happened in the first place? And it's like IT, IT seems that there's a lot of evidence on on the lab side.

I don't think it's one hundred percent um, but I think there's a lot of evidence there. And I think there's I know there's a risk there. There's a risk of in things like getting a function.

And I know that engineering is getting more. It's getting Better and Better and Better. And so we should be having conversations about our future in pandemics.

And he kind of, he kind of poisoned the well in a way by not doing IT, by not having the conversation in the responsible way he poisons the well. And then by censoring him in for IT. It's like IT makes IT impossible for us to have these conversations.

I think that that the absolutely appropriate take his soap ss is so threatening in my view because IT undermines important conversations and freely is you know compared playing fast and loose with the facts related to a lot of um the scientific objections he watches.

I'm really worried that that will make IT so that people take like I don't know like the natral sad or other really interesting, even handed sort of COVID locked down skeptics who have a pretty solid understand of the science uh and worried that they just won't be taken as seriously because R F, K, I think, is just associate those of us who are objectors to a lot of the things that the public called establishment. Does this associate us with like kind of luni anti axes and conspiracy theory when a reality? I don't think that that's exactly where we ought to be going with this.

You're totally right. Like gino function research and especially the actual practices at the web on in suit of biology. Our public ica had an excel ent investigation on this. And I think more and more journalist y to be looking into this. But it's it's something where there have been a zilia people blowing the whistle on the fact that gao functional research was happening at a lap in china in muha with such horrible safety practices that really fool the face of the accepted understating of how these labs out to be Operating. I mean, this was a ticking time about them in many ways.

Yeah, yeah. And that's, I mean, this is what happens when you have one candidate wants to talk about stuff is like Donald trap, right? With the one kind the one thing he would talk about, then no one else will talk about, we'll probably there are a lot of things, but I thing that mattered was immigration. He was the only person. He was like, hey, this is messed up and I know you probably disagree is but the most americans at that time, that was a story that resonated, that was a talking that was a position that mattered. And it's like you had someone who is like pretty irresponsible in a lot of ways, being the only person we need to talk about A A topic and and what does that do IT means that you have you end up having a really unhealthy version of that conversation um and two sides walk away, one thinking, uh, the conversation is not allowed to be had and so I hate the government and the other side walking away thinking others nothing valid whatsoever to be said about this thing um and the truth is unfortunately somewhere I don't even know what to the middle. It's so are sort of like out out space like nowhere near the conversation that we're having.

Have you noticed that R, F, K is totally silent on immigration?

Have not, what is.

what is the thinking there? The border? disney?

yeah. But he hasn't really talked about IT very much in any of the appearances that I ve said. I don't know, come through a lot of hours of rogan of his only inappeasable, of a bunch of his a podcast appearances and all kinds of places. And it's it's odd to me like this is just an area where he's a little bit on the quieter side.

Maybe it's just serious about winning the election. Any thinks he has a chance of taking down biden because biden, I mean, I don't know, is he's he going to be primary for the last minute by mister Gavin newsom and then suddenly the democrats in the running, and he's the only one has been working at, he dos want to nee APP himself. There are a lot of democrats were angry about covet stuff.

Maybe he has a chance. Well, I I saw a video of him at the border and he was just like. That he was he he was saying like this can't continue or or whatever and is arguing that how it's people from all over the world, there's like there's like there's people from that jet stand here.

And so he's going on on about how terrible IT is Better that you really offered to a solution, exactly how he's going to actually know. I'd take that back. I did hear him say something, and I can't remember where I heard that. I thought he wants to do something along the lines of what he said israel done, where they have like sensors, not a war exactly but like sensors set up across the border where I guess detect people when they are walking through, which i'm not helps.

Yeah we are now a bit of that here. Um I mean, it's like in A A cause you also went to the border and IT doesn't an that you care about immigration so you care about a photo up and whatever I your policies what do anyone's .

policies in iconic photos set by the way?

Yeah we'll never forget that's a whole conversation. I think it's like last out of this point, i'm going to give you to the both you guys anything on the anti establishment stuff or anything else at all. Last thoughts on on R, F, K.

yeah. I think he is so incredibly compelling to a certain segment of people because people are seeking alternatives. I mean, the political duopoly has failed us.

There are so many people increasingly identifying neither as republicans nor as democrats. The story, I mean, the fact that it's a trope now of like the left left me behind. I'm like, I used to be a liberal, but now, I mean, there are a little crazy on the weekends thing.

This is like such a common tail. You walk around any big city and and you can find them all over the place. I mean, to me, this shows the democratic party has really left, uh, a lot of its base. And then you look at the republicans and just how it'll be really interesting as we sort of have this truck descendest show down and then the open of people who kind of don't like that at all. We have, I think, increasing populist uh, sentiment on both left and right, which will be really interesting to see how that plays out.

Um I think R, F, K is tapping into something real, which is the sense of the public health authorities, the biden in ministration, the teacher's unions, never attached for the ways in which they deprive us of our freedoms for more than two years uh and in many cases it's not just they never gave us an apology and never suffered any consequences for the things they did. It's also that now they're lying about the records and pretending like, no, that didn't happen. And if I did happen, IT was no big deal and don't worry about IT, don't worry.

You're pretty little head and understandably, you know some number of the three hundred plus million americans get really, really pissed off with that the way you talk down to them and when that's the way you treat. So I think the sentiment ark is happy into is super understandable. I think there is a lot to like, but I think we fundamentally have to be very careful.

We ought to platform as many people as possible and allow i'm a free speech maximum list, allow endless speech all over the internet and in person. But we ought to be pretty judicious with who we actually listen to and who we believe. And I don't think we should believe a lot of the things that are of k is saying.

alright, a deck you is for joining us today, and i'll probably drag you back on here in the months to come.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to read your work river.

I'll thank you. And I really like your peace on R. K. two.

You have have a lot of juicy dirt that IT seems like you've been excavated. And I just kind of love the intensity really.

Thank you.