Invasion of the Non-Binaries | PIRATE WIRES EP#17 🏴‍☠️
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In recent years, conference organizers have brought the target audience to women and non binary technologists. A lot of generes have actually just drank this gender koolaid. And like they really do believe that non binaries like this ontological category, you can separate from men pretending to be non binary.

That's all they would have to do. Better way is like just pound the face a little bit and put on a some like gill fitting I to like more things. And no one would have such.

All right, guys, welcome back to the pod. We have a handful of topics for you today. Kind of I don't know, is they are they loosely related to? I don't I don't say there about crime.

I don't want to be doing a crime show. I I think they are more about maybe just like the evolving philosophy of the country, let's say so. So we're we're going to start we're onna start with this recent string of eighty police activists who have been killed and then the sort of backlash against that online. You have a lot of people laughing about IT. You have people well meaning people I would like to say like myself saying, hey, no, don't do that and then those people getting duns will get into that in the second um we have uh a really interesting story that science is gona walk us through women's only tech conference in a what some to know where was that was a sympathy skill?

No, IT was in relandscaping .

in orlando that has been taken over by just like straight up men, mostly indians in indian and chinese men who .

have see him non binary aries.

But they have found the loops, they found a non binary o looper. And i've taken the women's conference under siege and they were going to talk about a small town of michigan that has banned Price flags following the election of an all most uh, city council river is that a city council, city board?

What is city council and mayor so every elected visual and the so .

it's now a theocracy uh and that is fascinating to me. We're in a conclude, like I said, with the with the esthetics of the future. Let's just start with, I am presently being raised into outer space by mostly rightwing people.

Hard, hard, right? Uh, I would say hard right people. A dude in brooklin is at a bus stop with his girlfriend. They are coming out of a wedding. He's brutally stabbed to death by a strange guy on the street and turns out that this guy who was stabbed to death was A, I don't want to see he was a member of anti pa. This is what people keep telling me, but we know for sure that he was a friend of a he liked antia the girl, the girl end him. Both were in these kind of like far, far left to circles celebrating antium like protesting and writing the the girlfriend in particular with like smiling in front of like a carl Marks license plates and h she's a super, uh yours .

so little taste less um SHE is in a .

time police person um there's now also a news that SHE has refused to give a description of the man who killed her boyfriend to the cops. I could not find confirmation of this. This story is definitely running away.

Now all we know for sure the cops didn't have a description. I'm not really sure if he gave one or not, uh, but certainly the victims, I think ryan was his named page roommates. I have not out the situation by talking to some press outlets and saying he would not have wanted the killer to be take into the police. Um so why .

why the girlfriend need to give a 对 description of the guy？ Because the snuff film was all over my time eline, when I woke up yesterday, I would just you could see the, yeah.

this is one of, so listen, this is fall. This is on the heels that there have been as a handful of crimes like, so this is, this is the hardest want to talk about because the victim, and I would say his girlfriends, also a victim to assert, extend here. Certainly she's just a victim as well.

A they were so active in the ani sort of police movement. So obviously it's going to be a controversy. But they're been a handful before this, where we recently had a guy in philly who was just gunned down in his apartment.

He was a journalist, also has some sentiments like this. You'd also been, you know, laughing in other high profile writing people who had died in various ways. Specifically, I think, herman cane dream, who had not taken the cover vaccine, that of code.

And then you had, I want to say, was about a year ago there was woman oakland, who was another defended police. But but SHE wasn't really an activist. SHE wasn't that well known, and he just believed in this stuff.

And he was killed by a criminal who hijacked or, and then I was a crucial awful death. I mean, he was trigged uh, through the street and died a belief of, uh, brain damage. So they're been a handful of these things.

Every single one of them is celebrated. Um I am a big don't dance on people's graves guy. Also, I see the images of the the criminals, and I think to myself, like, I just want them in jail forever.

It's all I care about. I don't care about the victim. I mean, I I care that to happen to them, but I don't care about critical, the victim at that point. I I don't care how much I disagree with them, which by the way is completely about their ideology. I just want the murderer in jail and uh um yeah set to me that the fact the right thing is not happy um and I I think there's A A I I think there is a spectrum here on on the on the far end of the sort of I really do not think that we need to be talking about the victim all spectrum is this woman in oakland who uh not a super public person SHE had a lot of political ideas that you could say maybe in part responsible for what's going on in the streets but and it's just it's hard. I don't that war for me and then you have this sort of the N T O H A cap people and uh and that when I mean again I I guess I understand why people are are going after them, but I I still just feel like your your focus needs to be the thing that you want in the world and what I want is less crime and um in some pakistan mic criminal I don't know what I might just a complete soft to here or or what do you guys think?

I mean I personally I think that there the so the claim that made by people who are sharing this video is specifically in the brookings case of the guy getting stabbed and dunking on him, essentially, is that, you know, these people are responsible for advocating for policy decisions that have real life consequences. And these real life consequences become manifest on the individual level.

And so somehow we're like making a parent that connection for people by highlighting how like you know fuck around and find out right it's like this whole thing about you know we need to make people understand um that the policy decisions they might be sort of abstractly advocating for actually get people killed. Um I just don't think the way to do IT though is by disseminating a snuff film and making fun of, in some cases, a guy who died. I mean, I just don't think it's a persuasive tactic. Um maybe i'm wrong about that, but I think what IT leads to is this now like meta debate that you're seeing on twitter where people are going back and forth about should you be you know sharing this film, should you be dunning on people, should you be spitting on your enemy's graves and it's like this debate is so far field from an earnest desire to like change people's minds about some other soft .

on crime policy and I think ah yes a hundred percent yes. I was in uh so prety high profile way bigger than me um online guy I want to say who is am not trying to get into some kind of war within me actually like um he is in my dms here.

I was in hindi where in each other dms talking about this um and what I didn't understand was like, I mean, do you want this crime stuff to end or not because I agree with you so ja, like this is oh, seeing people laugh at a grazy murder is extremely radical zing in the opposite direction. All you want to do is is identified now with the person who was murdered. So it's tactically it's so stupid like separate from the morality of IT.

And you know I just can't get on board if tactically IT is so it's so dumb um you're never going to win over the nt of people and that's fine whatever but that's not that's not who were trying to win over IT is it's it's people in the in the the moderates. It's set left. It's even regular left.

Like all of these people don't want to live in a world with people getting murdered at bus stop by crazy people. Nobody wants that. So you do have to kind of convinced them.

And that's a lot of people and you have a lot of room there and this alienates them um IT IT seems surely just self defeating to me. Yeah, I mean, people aren't doing people aren't actually doing political strategy on twitter though. They're doing tweet that try to get I mean, your goal is to get a lot of attention and that's what time you I think that's just exactly what's going on.

You're not thinking about, you know, how do I convert the most center left people to the center right or to the far right? They're thinking. And so you're right. I think you're write about the average person, but but actually the the the people generating all of this are handful of py profile activists and now comes to mind who was immediately sharing the stuff. And and of course he's not.

I don't think I saw tweet andy really laughing about IT, but he's setting IT up four of that is giving you everything that you need to go and then dunk can make IT a joke. Uh, jake, something was another one there. There are these big, huge, massive accounts who I don't even want to criticize them.

I think of their these people are all actually correct about the problem of crime, but they are activists and and so if their goal is to persuade people that I don't understand what they are doing, I will see one more thing actually on just the philosophy of the surprising thing about the people who were killed, the sort of philosopher of the nt. people. I think I sounded that you said before, um we've been waiting for them to sort of fuck around and find out, uh the really weird thing here is I think a lot of people thought, well, they just still care because they're not dying, right?

The crime these are some rich, privileged White kids that has nothing to do with them. It's other people who are who are who are on the on the tidy end of the of the crime equation who are experiencing IT. That's why they don't care.

The crazy thing is like actually the crime happens to them. You there your boyfriend is straight up murdered and and you're not actually taking his side. Write your friends, your roommates, no one is is actually standing up at that point, which means.

This on this extremely treme ly far left end of the spectrum we're dealing with A A A really um I want to say robust philosophy, a faith based way of thinking. There is something here that is that is beyond reason. Now these people are just they're down to die for the cause. That is a little bit that's a little bit disordering .

to me as well. IT also seems like attacked that the right wings pulling right how? And that Normally as a far life is like bring the war.

It's like we need to you know wake up the walk masses you know because if you also like A B L N thing on instagram and twenty twenty like you yeah you're asking to get staff basically. I mean, it's just bizarre and it's not very helpful. Like a that doesn't m like there's something clear for about IT about the way people were posting to, yeah, they are happy human. Bel.

there for sure. Happy about IT. And I see one now saying over and over again, you know, all of these people saying we shouldn't be celebrating this from the, you know, a sensible right, or are supposed to right. Where were they, you know, when her herman king went down and when all these other people went down, and people that I am always saying that greatly, we talk about the greasy nature of the terraced levelling activists on this specific c stuff all the time this is this is just a super anty human is not the way and a IT is hard to navigate because um you know you have the crowd against you now and people are .

just so desensitized to death too I mean, you said with the George nearly thing where I was like this controversial thing and like, yeah, you can like foreign opinion whether IT was likely giving itself to or not, I think that was but like I I don't want to see the life. Leave somebody these eyes on my fucking twitter you know what I mean and I I feel good about what happened either way, i'm not like, yeah, great.

He like choked that schizophrenia onic to that that's like, though this isn't like a good thing. He's probably not happy that he did that you don't like and that he had, or he was put the situation where he had to, that nobody wants to like at their conscience for the rest of their lives. It's like just an insane thing. Burn like, you IT really is like a touch grass moment. Or like, I don't know, go to church or .

just to another .

human being in person, it's not human behavior were saying .

on the time I will say so on the on the kind of self specifically on on on the antip side of this sort of apparently deeply rooted itself hater that leads to being okay with people who, you know in love, being killed with no justice. I would not like the final form of of the philosophy.

IT starts in much clowning, and apparently, seemingly, I don't know, not threatening ways in one such recently has been this conference that we talked about, just the top of the show you have in all women conference for tech in orlando. And IT is taken over in the, well, IT was a cell phone. And what you just kind of walk us through the story that you wrote about for the rewires?

Yeah, I mean, I should start by saying like this is the kind of story that if you try to explain to someone fifteen years ago would have made no sense um which is incidentally one of my favorite types of stories but basically there is this conference for women tech called the Grace hopp er celebration Grace hopper was this very prominent computer scientist in the mid twenty century um and the conference has been running I think since the mid nineties um and its history ally targeted uh Young women and computer science it's a four day thing that runs um this year, ran at the end of september um and we've got like a speaker series, a job fair most notably um and admission is very expensive.

So IT for students it's around six fifty um and I think for members of the public is around twelve hundred dollars. So it's really mainly been this event where you know Young women in computer science go network and get jobs and that kind of thing. Um and in recent years, conference organizers have brought in uh the target audience to women and non binary technologists and that really bore fruit this year at the Grace hoper conference where IT was a much different conference that uh previous years. So basically the day after um the first session, a women who attended the conference posted a petition on changed dot org called enforcing illness and refund women strictly prohibit men from participating in G H C twenty and twenty three and so the petition opens by saying uh we the concerned attendees of G C demand fairness and transparency in an event that claims to be for women and non binary individuals and technology so this person you know doesn't negate the fact that that not by year people should come. IT has come .

to attention.

SHE also got IT. It's come to our attention that a significant number of men are participating in this event, which contradicts its purpose and undermines the opportunities that provides IT aims to provide for women. And then SHE goes on to uh recommend some things that the organizers do um and I should say that this isn't the context of a bunch of videos going viral on like twitter and tiktok of mainly indian and chinese guys, just like storming the conference. And there is like pictures of all these men like trying to get up their resumes to recruiters um and stories are coming out of like men harassing women and like talking about their bodies and their native languages and following them them back to their hotel rooms. So that's all the context um but anyway, this woman recommends refunding all the attendees who paid registration fees under false pretenses and he recommends establishing clear guideline stating that only self identified women or non .

binary individuals participate not binary right?

So he says, have figured that out again and then he says, implement a thorough verification process during registration to ensure complaints of the events intended audience. And so this petition in its only upward day and then IT mysteriously gets taken down but in the interim period of it's like over twenty five hundred signatures and IT gets posted on redit.

Um the sub reit like where a bunch of people who take the conference go and the people start having this very earnest debate over how you actually figure out these people's gender. Like how do you figure out if someone is genuinely non binary or um you know just a man pretending to be non binary? And so there is like this debate over whether or not you know they would implement peace inspections and check what for to stores one. And it's this very weird moment where you realize like a lot of generes have actually just drank this gender cooled and like they really do believe that non binary is like this ontological category that you can separate from you know men pretending to be non binary um but anyway, the conference organizers end up issuing like an apology video where they basically you know they were sorry that this this conference wasn't a safe and loving as has been in the past. It's come to attention. A lot of men have like taking advantage of um you know the fact that it's technically open to them uh to come but they're still not like talking about um the real problem at hand is that people are taking the end of this non binary loophole and there's like discussions on twitter with the organizers where non binary people are like you know they want to be included and the organizer is trying to figure out a way to adjudicate you know if this this identity um and yeah that's basically the the scandal and first.

I really love the kind of person who start to change dot org petition. They remind me of the kind of are the final incarnation of the woman who when I was very Young, you used to hear about the kind of person who would write a letter to the supermarket if something went wrong, like a letter, a letter to the, to the, to the owner of the company. This is who they became.

And I think this is, we've talked about the need for careers before. I think there is a need for this kind of person. I think that I think that he is obviously like very well. She's in this very difficult place where she's getting exactly what you asked for but doesn't know how to change her mind publicly without seeming like SHE is a bad person. And I think obviously what you want is a conference with only females because your opinion is that females do not have the same advantages that males have in tech.

But you can't save that now because you have the gender conversation has gone so entirely off the rails that even gender in sex have been completed and nobody knows how to talk about this stuff anymore. And all that really does. All that means for sure is that, like an asp indian guy, and tech is perfectly suited to hack a situation like this is gonna walk, write him and take as many opportunities as he can and not care because culturally he's totally insulated from our vocabulary IT he just doesn't give a shit um IT is funny and tragic in its own way um I know rather.

what do you think about indian guy and I like leggings and like .

yeah ah that all they .

would have to do by the way, is like put on like a little just pound the face a little bit and put on uh some like ill fitting uh kind like mom thing and no one would have said shit like that. I remember when this first started because I I remember like when I first started hearing about like the one by ary and then I search, seeing people and I was like, okay, I guess it's like you're like a dragon.

Like you're like, you know, whatever and then you started seeing like these people who are not like, you're just woman. I was a work like, I met a grow in real life. He like, somebody was like, ocean is trans.

And I was like, down sheet, good work and then I found just like dating a guy and i'm like, this is just a horowitz woman and um people were like, I like was talking about our mind. People telling you like, not binary. People don't owe you and trade and like like they over to themselves like, give me IT. If you are defining these gender, would you say is like, so like restrictive and awful and powerful, like all these are gender norms. Like prove IT put in .

a little effort. If gender is a presentation of norms, then you need to be presenting enormous for me. I need to see something. I need to see a little bit of effort.

The out magazine thing is that I think he was was an outer advocate when you have the truth, the famous actor in the famous model, uh, I forget me. Which one IT was now. The actor of I say famous, let's i'm using, were very lousy. They are gay famous though the actor in particular is gay. Famous because, no, he's bisexual.

He was in scream for is what I know him from best of enormous scream fan is october when we watching the right now but this year was in scream for he is a apparently by sexual I wish I believe because all of the sort of microgrid lebrato are super obsess with them and some of I think said theyve up up with them and what not um he is married to A A woman and a the woman previously apparently allegedly only dated women but now they are just their straight couple there is a biological mail, a biological woman. Um they are dating about dating they're married and they're on the cover of a gay magazine like this is not even just a regular straight couple, right? Like this is one of the hottest couples on the planet and they are on the cover of this game magazine in the headline is like this is a clear relationship and that i'd tried not to be, I tried not to be .

woke in my own .

sexuality and and be gay keeping IT and policing IT, and be talking about that, the struggles that I ve gone through, or the difficulty, for example, of of navigating, like my boyfriend and I holding hands in whereever we're going to be out to think about IT like that. But this is just a drove me insane. I saw this, and I like this couple.

This couple, not only can they go anywhere that they want in the world, not only are they not gay by any means, like there is no definition of, hey, that makes sense for them um they are they are Better off than the average straight couple because they are so fucking hot like there are there are a beautiful straight couple. What are we doing here? Like we we're losing.

We're losing words. We are losing, we are losing the, we are losing him through that loss of words. We are losing a way to even talk about this stuff in key among the things that we are, key among the subjects we are losing our ability to discuss is specifically the thing that this stuff is supposed to exist in the service of, which is protecting gay people.

How do you do that when you've lost the term gay or queer? Now, I guess which just means straight IT means anything. literally. This is a straight .

couple we're talking about. Yeah, if the guy like introduces you and of the queer, you're I think the guy you might .

I don't agree with that actually I think a guy, yes, I think a girl.

a girl, a .

girl.

I as as as someone .

who's non bindery passing and in a relationship with a woman yeah I mean I think it's just just going back to the the women um not bine anything for a second. I think this is such a like female socialized thing to do though because it's like of course it's the women who are like falling all over themselves to say like no, we actually we do want include the unbinding people but just like the right types of ones and but they don't really know the women arrived. They can't say they don't want to be exclusion ary um and .

it's like one one woman or like a history on IT gay guy, that's that's what non binary means like the real I mean it's .

just this insane self own but you're right like in the case of women, in the case of like the gay community, these these real consequences um because it's like yeah if you do brought in these definitions up so they can include anyone, anyone is going to come in because of course there's benefits right to like in the culture we live in. There's benefits to saying your queer couple in certain circles, I guess because that gets you cloud or something um well.

no one wants to just be a regular straight person anymore. So there were in my lane. Get out of my lane. Are not you're not allowed in my way unless you are, unless as a man, unless you are actively. I don't want to be vulgar here, but I want to be vulgar here unless you are actively seeking a dick. I don't want to hear IT I like I just don't want to hear that is the line for me if you not clear less unless that is happening .

and even if you active woman, that relations because husbands doesn't mean that this is a car relation um river .

I wants to talk about. So another way that this kind of this poosk sort of collapse in on itself and and work adds itself really against the interests of the people sort of propagating IT h defending IT is really on display again in the sort of L G B T Q orbit up in michigan. You just want the story, uh, all about this.

Won't you break a damp? Yeah so there's the city called IT ham remic. I always been found that have trimmed um it's of like a suburb of of detroit and I was previously a majority polish town. He was like a polish ethnic enclave um that was sort of best of for being uh the side of like a really big dog plant.

The dot point shuts down and a lot of like the police people leave and um some bangladeshi ries who live there uh started basically like hiring their own, like at the factories that they are managing and this like to a lot of bangladeshis and then other muslim immigrants canes on for bosnia and and um sorts anyway uh about half of the population of hampton mick now is muslim of some kind of but one hundred percent of local government officials are um every number the city council, the mayor of so this is LED to some problems as you can imagine um the local um L G P C activists see have flight told multiple journalists that they feel betrayed they went uh before the city council we're saying that you betrayed us we let you in here and then ah now you're taking the um the pride flags down your refuse basically the the city council said that you can show plugs you can display pride tax on city property more so the um they felt massively betray by us the local like of us and i'll to be to activist and I was like the question is sort of why why do you feel surprised by this? Why do you feel betrayed? Particularly because the mayor ran on a platform of removing the pride flags yeah like they .

just couldn't they couldn't believe the coming out of mth.

right, that the left in this country has this idea, muslim as of consider of us because I guess of like post nine eleven anti vesva atr. And so we should assume that uh they will be this sort of like. Diverse total of a person who just like doesn't actually believe anything.

It's just like they're not White, they're not Christian. So why can't they also be like, uh, polyamorous and like a peg leg? I mean, there's like a mean it's only been a mean. There is a getting someone posted that has just become a name um where it's like a polyamorous pegleg hjd. It's the most like that is the image that the west hazard muslim s in this country.

They don't actually because I think so much of the left towing and telly henzy IT doesn't believing god, even if they call band sales Christians or jews or whatever nominally, they just assume that nobody else really believes and got together. And so you know, muslim doesn't actually concern a set of belief, but they're learning now that IT does and it's descended into all out war in this town. Um they uh the resolve issue with the labor day parade where the city council and the mayor refuse to march next to A A L G B T group then uh there they just pass some anti hate crime ordinance that was directly aimed at L G B T activists intimidating them. There is even like, I think this is like if you put something on someone's car, like you can go to jail. It's because somebody had put like a like a pride flight sticker on the theirs car that A C L U is kind of raising here about IT um which is surprising and given the way behave lately but um in there like yet this seems like this could have some free speech implications because they were also the wall also prohibit you from like defacing uh posters, like campaign posters ers and all sorts of things that the activists were doing in the town so it's it's really gone like completely off the rails um but it's not a surprise like as long as a conservative religion and this is what you get yeah I mean.

I I I think what you said a little bit earlier about the difficulty of the far left to really take religion seriously is IT。 I think that you know a lot of people in the country now are are are anti I religions. They think, you know organized religion is bad and what not.

I don't think they really understand IT. I don't think they really know what it's like to be talking to someone who genuinely believes in god, in a faith in the tenants of that faith, who believes in the afterlife and believes in in living in accordance with the law, that faith to go to that after life. And they certainly are not ready for them to act a out against them in order to achieve these things.

One of the really interesting things about the story to me is it's not even just so you have the religious component, but that's what happens in the broader context of immigration. I think I think another thing that we don't take seriously is the fact that other people from other places have other cultures that they care about, actually, that it's not this we have this sort of strange uh it's like the captain and planet version of of reality um where they serve like a one of everybody and they look really different. They're from really different places in a team of five different colors, in different faith, in different styles of dressing.

But they all think and act exactly the same. That's not reality. That's america. That's american culture is is what we're talking about there. And when you were taking a lot of people from other places, they don't believe in that. Not everybody, some people might, but that is not what like every culture in the world is.

And this is a problem that you're seeing way more so in europe because the culture of islamic cultures tend to be much more divergent from the western european countries. Uh, a cultures then do uh mostly will be having americans right now, south american immigration. And so there are struggles there, but they're not nearly as bad as that.

And what you see a michigan is that you see this very strong cultural difference. Uh, you don't see an interest in integrating into broader er american culture. You see an interest in reshaping american culture, certainly local culture, in your image.

And then you see, uh, the protective classes are people who are supposed to be protective classes in america, naturally at all, to each other, because their tire, their tire philosophy is flawed. IT is completely ological. This, you cannot bring these different kinds of people together um because they don't they don't agree on the same things.

They they think they share an enemy and they don't actually the enemy of the L G B T Q is always going to be people who think the L G B T Q should not exist. And guess what? That is not like Donald trump.

That is a muslim fundamentalist for sure. And that's what you're seeing a msika neist reality and that's going to be something that they are gonna to deal with as, uh, I don't even know if they're going to have to deal with that. I think it's kind of I mean, the battle is lost is time is time to leave .

michigan yeah and it's H I feel like once you start so like this, that gets turned into like race. But I this isn't about race at all. I think amErica could actually probably isn't late anybody from any ethnical in the world at the time. If you look at most of american history, we have assimilated ted most people. But the what the groups that we haven't assimilate ted have always been hard line religious groups the um he said juice morman uh polygamous um like there's like all these examples of these little in different little parts of the country. You have these people who you know are americans like legally um but there they don't participate mature of american culture they're very isolated um and they effectively live in a parallel society and I think that's what you're going to end up with in a place like hamtramck um where you have so many muslim concentrated in one place which really does like slows down integration in a lot of ways, even for people who maybe would be our like a little bit less religious and for whom that might be more possible right?

River, when I was reading your piece I just kept thinking about submission by Michelle whedon that novel which you know where he basically imagine the sort of near future france um where they elect elected islamic theocratic party um and the theocratic party gets they they get to power because they have this alliance with the the left actually um and their first moves immediately are to like institute islamic state education shen and ban women from going to universities and you know other things like that which obvious ly happened happened in in mitigate and but it's just fascinating to me how the left seems to think that the like various coding with minority groups they co up will be satisfied with just representation and like that there are these little pins that they can sort of manual but that the status quote will remain the same um because it's like why would why would they not want to reshape this if they get power in the city government? Why would they not want to reshape the in accordance with their world view like the left does that, the right does that? Really it's it's just bizarre. Um yeah it's .

interesting. It's I I think just maybe last little note on this one is they are you join the coalition tion they're saying join the leftist coalition and extensively that's because we see you as people and you know the right doesn't the republicans don't the racist whenever um you don't see them as people at all because if you saw them as people you would understand that they are going to act as all people do in what they perceived to be their best interest and they are going to rule with sort of self ownership like this is what they are fully they are fully developed human beings with a world view and they're not it's not fake.

It's not like they are on stage, do you know dancing around for you? This is, this is who they are. And IT was you who didn't who didn't treat them like humans.

IT was you didn't listen the things that they said. IT was you who didn't take them seriously because you don't see them as serious things. You see them as objects in your little weird that exists inside of your imagination.

Um this is where we're at. Well, this is we're michigan again. I don't live in michigan and I don't plan on moving. There is a nice state though I will say I was surprised I want to a waiting there once knew nothing about michigan and now I know that IT is very beautiful um the bottom down by what is that an arbour and all the way up to the lakes. I like every piece of IT, but I will be going to am track any time soon, and especially not for gay pride. We're lost bread in.

He's having internet .

issues and we're going to talk about canadian censorship, which is absolutely wild. This country are easy, was about to say this country are way of IT. No, no, no, it's a state.

Ah no, I actually I genuinely forgot that was the country. Yes, IT is a country. IT is totally going totally off the rails. I think this is sort of funny that canada is um I mean, it's sad for all canadians. We will have canadian refuge surely.

Um it's it's sad that they are becoming increasingly authoritarian, but it's sort of ironic because this is the country that was held up as the great liberal when I mean classically liberal para gan, right these are the freedom loving people. This is what we should aspire to be. And they are in the entire english here among the worst at this point. But we're at to see that one for next week because our boy is out of the chat and he had all the facts. Ah I want to move on to the White pill, and you can probably both have some interesting perspective on this because we all live online now when we see IT all the time.

Um if you're bet on an instagram any time recently, you've probably seen these lush rooms so just strange homes on the side of mountains in beautiful rooms are like sort videos painting around a cozy looking library with pouring rain before giant windows and its like sort of tree ford s but maybe not and IT looks a thereof but very real and the people in IT, if they're ever in IT, also looked real. Um I think a close uh uh A A sort of cousin of this entire genre of A I generated r is what we just saw from facebook. You have uh, in a podcast with lex friedman is IT fridman or freedman, by the way, freda, but spell freedman.

So in a podcast with lex freedman, mark socket bird revealed the new avatars for facebook, which look like people. So when you go into virtual reality now, and it's like the matrix IT looks you, you scan the person to the point where we are now talking to other human beings in B. R.

And I started sort of IT was the combination of those two things. And I started to realize like, oh, the future. And when we talk about the future, the aesthetics of the future are of the future.

We have always imagined the world of robots and glass and metal and the color White. Everything is always really White in playing. It's like apple mac books all over the place.

It's like that that's the aesthetic of the future that we imagine. And i've always thought that the Whitehouse of IT all was kind of a placeholder. IT was like we couldn't fully imagine the future.

And so we provided a canvas, but IT was the metal that now the metal in the glass at all that now is collapsing away as we see what what we're actually walking towards in terms of uh， and aesthetics of the future, which is just human. So let me break this down. In a world where you can live in any way that you can imagine, things are going to look not carton ish, not like, quote, the future of towering glasses steel, but intensely human.

It's like everything you've ever dreamed but couldn't do physically. You're going to build in VR and it's not onna look like a giant tower. It's gonna something like this like lush trees. It's going to look more solar pokey.

It's going to be it's going to be uh wear trees and cozy libraries and giant huge ceilings and like strange of vocative things you see like a bed in the middle of lake. It's like all sorts of stuff like that. That's gna be that is going to be the world that we're approaching.

And I wondered, I wondered what's going to happen. I mean, as we get Better at at first of all, is visualizing this stuff and then in the world of V R actually constructing something that feels like you're kind of navigating IT, I wonder if that's going to actually start shaping the physical. I I think IT almost has to um in in some ways, but I wanted the extent of IT and IT certainly just as interesting to me because I think we're all when he comes to the future a little bit a little bit anxious about a future that feels more robotic.

But I don't think so at all. I think it's going to happen. It's the interesting thing about A I is IT is IT does not seem to be hinting at a more robotic looking future.

IT seems to be hinting at a more human looking future. I sort of like ultra man future, I know. Do you guys kind of follow? Do you get IT to see the stuff? What do you think about the statics of the future? Yeah.

I mean, there's two, there's two sides. So I see this this kind of two different things that A I generated are IT is getting more realistic. But it's very pony like the features like a very exaggerated.

I just feel like everything kind of looks like sort of like a lowest griff in my poor. Now that is just like giant, like like shinny super shinny skin. Um so I think that sort of strange maybe speaks to what's on the internet, how people look on the internet. Everybody look like, you know like I just got lady I don't know but the um as for the V R .

thing IT is interesting .

that it's it's getting more realistic and could um like just kind of like a look like the real world. Um I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I feel like that could like ah not very good back to porn again, but that that could definitely run into people's lives like porn diction is already that thing if it's like super if it's like you're there, I mean, imagine um and I thought I think I could probably take people away from the real world when people are already sort of, I think in many ways, to immerse online.

But i'm also not quite sure if I will take on in the way that everyone is anticipating that everyone has been saying like the is the future forever and I just really hasn't done and I i've had like I played like the r video game stuff i've had like heads at on IT is kind of like a surreal cool experience. But I don't know if I would wanted do IT all the time like just doing IT alone. Your house is kind of scary because you're kind of like it's almost like you're in a coma, like you're like if somebody came in right now, i'm like blind and death basically and they could just like kill me.

Like, that's what I kept thinking about. Like, as i'm like playing my little like, V R T is like somebody could kill me right now. I need know and like, maybe i'm just in dorothea and like, so that's why I would now be using IT all the time but um I don't know. I just I just remember when the r video games came out and everybody said your name one in your house twenty years and most people .

doubt so yeah I would say just a quick and you said everyone says, V, R, the future. I think IT was, everyone said, V, R, the future and you're write about that. And that was about ten years ago.

I was when the oculus rift came out. And for the first time we had working V, R, and IT did feel like the future and that didn't happen. And that's true.

And I I think people have really showered on IT since then. You saw mark socker gs first kind of cartoon avatar AR about a year ago that looked so goofy. And you thought, I will never do this.

Gives to have armers yeah this .

was really bad but to see the events this far this quickly um IT makes me think there is still tremendous value there potentially. And in terms of what that means for the world yeah agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think that anything that reduce focus on the real world is, to a different extent, a problem in less.

If that sort of alternate reality helps you imagine a lot of Better world that we can build here. If IT starts inspiring, if it's just the feeling of being able to build things on incomer, if that alone is is motivating sufficently, motivating that we start doing stuff in the real world. I i'll like IT um I try to stay White pill about this.

I do think it's a cool, really not even cool. I think it's a brilliant, impressive technological leap. Um I did not expect that to happen, certainly not this soon.

I didn't expect to see legs talking in a way that looks simi real. I mean, well, be on the on Kenny valley now. IT does not look strange.

IT looks like him first. Second, I thought I was him. Yeah, but I mean, I agree.

I mean, we were spending too much time online. I spent too much. I'm definitely addicted to my phone. I would love to get off twitter sometime. IT seems hopeless. Get of being in a virtual twitter is, I think, my idea of hell I don't want that I don't know what what you think about your statics of the future.

I mean I think that there are a ton of use cases for VR that are not like um a deep fake porn and stuff as well. Not that i'm suggesting that, but I think you know for you know soldiers were deployed brand was talking about this few days ago soldiers who were deployed, people along these relationships like this good technology states yeah this technology gy could be really, really cool. Um the thing I always think about that when we talk about virtual reality and like how we should think about striking the baLance between integrated in real life and then also using that as an immersive technology is Robert knows its pleasure machine thought experiment where he basically said, you know, if you can construct a machine where you just enter IT and you can experience like you know unlimited pleasure um but you're kind of sedated from the outside IT looks that you can see you sort of sedated um is that you know a good use of your life is really a thought experiment and ethics.

I think the scarier piece of that for me is if you're capable of jacking someone in doing that to them, giving them actual is pleasure. That means you are also capable of jacking them and giving them unlimited pain. I I think that level of control over you in general is something that is very nerve ranking, yeah.

But I think in general, it's like, you know what if we get to a point where the technology is so sophisticated that people can just opt into this world where they're living entirely in you know a virtual reality, where they can sort of dictate, you know, how their relationships go and who they, you know, what they are sort of job success is. And it's not the real world, but for them IT like feels as real. As the real world um do we have objections to that? And you know obviously this is not where the technology is right now um but as you're sing so on to like it's advancing so quickly that I can see you know a few years down the line is getting to a point where people are spending tons of time in in A V R world um and that's me that you know we're going to have to think about negotiation ating um because, you know I don't think it's going to be straightfor in a lot of cases about which you know what kind of lifestyle people wants to have in a world war where that options available to them I mean.

we do. So I guess I would have to be incredibly realistic and mean, you'd have to be approach. We have nearly ly coming. I M, you'd have to be really jacked into something to enter a new world and feel like you are a new world that have IT matter in snow crash, the new Stevens in story that came out the early nineties, you you actually see a parallel economy emerge.

And so that actually answers the the other I have, which is if you can't get anything out of the world, and why would you stay there? But if you have another economy in that world, and you can buy things in that world, and the things you do in that world can give you, well in this world, suddenly there are incentives to be in that world. It's is maybe IT starts to change the calculus.

But as of right now, it's like, you know there are people who waste their day spending, uh, they wait their day uh, playing video games all day and there are kids to spend wait too much time in front of a screen. This feels kind of in the same classes that some to watch out for. It's like all of these technologies they give and they take and you kind of you, you don't give the good stuff without without some kind of bad.

The problem with the bad, as you kind of never know what the bad is. GTA be right. Like social media, nobody knew that social media was gonna considered a this information weapon. Uh, twenty years ago, nobody said that that they were .

saying everybody.

And right, no, IT was like, I was. No, I was. Fox news was there was a show called alfoxden was the scourge of the nation IT was like this piece, people on fox for saying things that, you know, you should not be saying a line.

That's what people were talking about when I was in college. This is A. This is the nature of technology, the sort of I don't think really know the problem with the stuff for for another couple decades.

Um I think until then, we got to kind of focus on on what we really want to get out of IT. And for me at least, I think it's been cool to see emerge right before our eyes of future escape that people are actually excited about, which leads me increasingly to the solar punk category of things. People love plants.

People love running water. People want more imaginative, advocate tive beautiful surroundings and um and aesthetics in general or something that I think a lot about I think about the hard brutalist architecture, the beauty of walking through new york city, the beauty of our old buildings um the the art deco buildings. The more classically inspired are not classically, the more romantic inspired buildings I would say of of the lady eighteen hundred hundred and things like this that people want that.

And um I have just been excited about that lately. I want to make the world a little pretty. I think that's a weird it's A A weird value that we don't have anymore.

The idea that, that something being pretty is kind of an important thing, I think the world should be pretty. And if that's all i've gotten out of of out of the AI generated are so far, well, that's something and i'll take IT for today. That's the that's the White pill.

All right? That is that guys will catch you here next week. Exit us. Remember to like, subscribe, share with your friends and talk you later.