Keffiyeh Karen, Return Of The Bros, Anti-Free Speech Bill, Activist CEO, & A Discussion On France
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It's crazy to say because we're on an ivy campus, but this is like basic humAnitarian ABS import. Get carreon at columbia and her sort of photo negative down at uc to .

even refer to can I get my meal plan brought to me as humAnitarian? An aid shows like the level of delusion that these people are Operating on.

Who stands to benefit from all this is the that's getting like a ton of money generating clicks on these stories.

If it's thirty percent israel, thirty percent aleshine, it's also thirty percent of media.

What's up guys? Welcome back to the pod a thank you for your patients.

We are A A day late for the first time ever on this pot because I was um in europe and last twenty four hours in france, which were going to talk about at the end of the episode I have some french takes for you um but first things first um we have with us today the absolute left very comfortable smug um one of my favorite podcasting ers out there uh the guy who helped put pie wires in the map in the early days, one of our biggest supporters early on. Um always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for joining us.

Yeah great to be here and thank you for that product. I think you know the work you do on power wires, the worker folks in doing that speaks for itself and and i'm happy to see all the success takes.

Man, okay, I have a lot to ask you, and we have a lot to talk about. Let's just get into IT. The world has sort of, while i've been gone, descended in to madness really the college camp itself, we tried not to talk about really I mean like a monday, I mean i'm like really aggressively trying not to drive us all into the palestine israel debate because this is an american media company and I think most of this is not about america.

And um also there's just take a no win situation and joy list is miserable people hated I hate IT, but this campus h is fucking bananas and I think this is just got this week IT hit boiling point. There are a lot of interesting stories here um just from the cultural element to the weight, all being amplified online. And I want to hit them all and I want to start with these two are related.

Okay, I I want to talk about kiva carin at columbia and her sort of photo negative down at un. C um the flap boys who protected the american flag with their body and I think maybe start actually with columbia saga. I know even following the story catches up on what is going on with.

And I just before you get into IT, I do want to point out this girl had the huge glasses that I was talking about. She's like, she's back. The big glasses girl is back.

I'm always right. It's like you've got to a watch out for those glasses. Here they are. And this is like, I mean, he is just sort of the plutonic ideal of the girl with the I hate u glasses uh but good I mean, give me give me the the real .

story yes so she's A P H D. Student in english and comparative literature. SHE went viral because um SHE was sort of filmed conveying a list of demands, I guess for students who were occupying hamilton holy colombia.

So basically one of protesters took over the student hall um and kind of insane IT um and then they removed by police later but while they were occupying the building, uh they had a list of demands and one of them was that they wanted uh the university to either provide food for them or not hinder the sort of delivery food IT wasn't entirely clear but this this woman joan king slee ski um who as I said is A P H D student at the university, spoke to reporters and SHE basically said, um you know the university should provide food, water to people in campus and they said, well know students are barrick themselves in ah this hall so know they can they are free to leave at any point and and go to the dining hall um and then we sort of said he went on this reward he said, you know do you wants to survive dehydration and starvation or get severely ill even if they disagree with you um and then said it's crazy because this is for beta. It's crazy to say, because we are on an ivy campus, but this is like basic humAnitarian aid we're asking for. Like, could people please have a glass of water?

It's crazy to say, because we're on an ivy campus, but this is like basic humAnitarian and aid asking for. Like, could people please have a glass of water? But they put themselves in that very deliberately in that situation, in that position.

And so this was sort of the clip that has now been viewed a over forty seven million times on twitter um and you know people were sort of rightfully pointing out the hysteria behind and the fact that you she's really explicitly sort of drunk a parallel l between herself apparently. And like civilians who actually don't have access to humAnitarian aid have marched for so long .

that they really they really do identify with the version of gaza that lifts in their head. They really feel like they're a part of this struggle.

Mail yeah I mean ah you know the reporter um to their creditors is kind of engaging with with her her line of reasoning. He says, you know there was a request that food water be brought in um and this allows her to sort of go on this um rent about how you know colombia has an obligation to these students who are again wilfully barracking themselves in this building um and especially they're on the meal plan he says um because you know they should be I guess since their pank for the meal plan a catered two while they trust pass on on university property.

We're seeing a level of site like sort of what would you call that? I guess it's a illusion across the college. All the different college is why we have there's there are crazy protest that almost all of the the big ones, the most notable that i've see online is like U L U C L A is was one to be the more silly ones.

Colombia, probably the crazy, is one of this point because of the they have the sort of campers, and now they took over the building. You didn't mention this is IT true that they helped a general hostage. Or is that some sort of, like daily mail misinformation going around?

I didn't see that they IT might be the case. I mean, I literally .

google janitor hostage columbia and i'm telling you become genitor hostage colombia at you can .

mail I yes, I see that the sad this is .

technical house situation um I do want to see I would generally ignore like I don't think it's just crazy dumb college stuff but IT is very interesting um this person is first of all he is thirty three shea PHD candidate which means isn't SHE teaching classes so SHE sort of she's not just like a dumb student. She's she's your child's teacher um and he believes that what it's it's like we've really got into the point where I guess you're just you're raised with so much money that you genuinely believe um if you're not able to have food delivered to your protest IT constitutes oppression. Um absolutely bit in a smug what does your take yet?

So bill like actually highlighted this really a good tweet from allissa bon. We said a camp have to explain what's happened here. But here goes elite students of iv league schools have glamorized depression so much that they have now reached replace status to satisfy fantasies. Here the students have appropriated the suffer of goths are cost playing as a living through a manitous.

An crisis like to even refer to, can I get my meal plan brought to me as humAnitary arian aid shows like the level of delusion that these people are Operating on, where they want to try to feel like their freedom fighters and struggling instead of thirty three year old P. H. D. Can t waiting for us to pay off their student wales? It's carefully absurd.

Yeah, it's I saw someone talking about the online was like, you know, the optics of this are so bad to have this be the thing that is representing gaza. You could never imagine something like this taking place during the civil rights era, for example, like you, you would just never have seen someone like her speaking for a cause so significant.

I am confused to why there was even a press conference which maybe breaks me to my sort of what I think is actually happening here, which is that the protest don't really matter is just like they're dumb college. I don't I really just strongly disagree with a the kind of like hysterical boomer right wing press about this where it's like this is, you know, the world is on fire and these kids are crazy and it's like, they are crazy. They've always been crazy.

There has never been a year that they bananas. We've always spent insane. And again, like I mentioned last week, twenty twenty was a thousand times worse.

Okay, you had six months of real rioting. This is not that. This is just idiots are being idiots. And now we're sticking mikes in them because like the reason is a microphone in one of these girls because people are, I think, enjoying this. Okay, I was watching a bunch of U C L A students get carted off um this morning and like damasks and everybody is just what's how people are celebrating like they're genuinely enjoying the carnival of IT all. And um it's just this weird kind of syn biotic relationship I think between the sort of the protesters, the sort of like performative protesters and the um what is that when you the voyage tic maybe public um who is just sort of like emerge enjoying the chaos is kind of my read of this yeah a bit its content.

Everyone was seeing the state used power to go after their political enemies and now we get to see IT in a lifestream .

yeah I think IT is the arrest. Do fuel I mean, again, it's another weird the performance of things so this is arrested a bunch of U, C, L, I. Students, and then immediately released them with the packed breakfast is as well.

It's like only White people, right? Like only like some like eighteen to twenty year old White girl is going to get a packed breakfast on her way out of jail but he didn't actually enter you'll see he has a citation ation SHE also has her breakfast here and he certainly will be supported by other protesters who have also been released in front of the twin tower corruption facility arrested, released, given a breakfast set on way um but but like all of IT like like the protesters, performative of the arrest or performative, I I would really believe the outrageous performative because I have not see me ever now then yes, you see a crazy person with some horrible antiseptics slogan. But for the most part, they're really just like it's like a bunch of losers in kippy scarfs who are just like White people doing muslim prayers and stuff like it's a fundamentally goofy thing.

It's not like, oh my god, i'm terrified at these people. It's not like they're standing in front of burning buildings. If dk I saw one um on a loop IT was CNN had these people on a loop at columbia and IT was the same IT was like this one hammer broke a window. And they um I saw that hammer break a window like fifteen times again, it's like really dumb and it's really bad and like definitely arresting people. But I don't know IT doesn't feel like the world's ending to me.

There have been a lot of like hookers and sibs that have cropped up through these protests like there was the whole protester is possibly stabbed in the eye. There was I think i've seen several videos now of people um like there I think there is one U C L A where student wear a star of David was like they are not letting me enter. They're not letting me me get pat through you know this um they're not along me in gress and he was looking at the camera of reporter who was there and know maybe this is actually a real live event happening that's not stage but IT certainly seemed in some cases like you have a lot of sort of staged events that then get picked up by the media to fuel this outrage cycle um and the fact that all of these protests have now cropped up in the exact same pattern at universities across the country just seems completely memetic um and and very divorced. I think from what's actually happening in the .

middle is you have these two different kind of groups of people who both have extremely pronounced interests abroad who are very incentivised to um frame each other as totally psychotic on hinchman. And I do I mean this in my heart is with I think the protesters that palestinian side is fucked and crazier. I really do um but it's like, I don't know, it's all kind of ridiculous to me.

Where I draw the line, however, is the american flag. So this is always how I am. Like I what I don't flag with is people with a foreign. I get my country, period. I don't even like the olympics s that much.

Honestly, I feel it's sort of important something like, why are you having a spanish flag in amErica is rude and it's like if you're going to come here and if you're swim to get to get the puter or whatever I will allow IT but i'm not like in love with IT uh this when I see a foreign flag being weighed in an aggressive manner in america, becomes a little, become more concerned. And then when I see the american flag that on fire, and I guess, you know, this is the left test. This is like latest protesters has been letting the american flag on fire forever because of this.

You know, they see people like me get mad about IT, and that's why they do IT IT hits different when it's like not only as an american flag being destroyed, but a palestinian flag is being raised that feels really conquest adjacent. And that is kind of what the optics are. And I guess if we're all going to be living in the fantasy world of the internet, you know, essentially what we're fighting over our ideas.

And this is an idea I really don't like this, that a lot of americans don't like and doubt. U. N, C, you see the sort of photo negative of capital, Karen, demanding food at our protest.

When are at sort of one of these events during mob? Um what do they do? They sort of they raised the palace new flag.

Campus police came out and were like, no, shut this down. Put the american flag back up. The mob decended tried to destroy the american flag, and at that point a bunch of crap boys walked up and saved. Today, at least this is what the photos sort of indicated. There's just a good, amazing IT looks almost a renison painting um of just like ten h sort of a summer brockley perm haircut, a fat boys pastel colors, one of at a hooter shirt, one of them sort of like filming the crowd from the other direction, laughing water being thrown at them this sort of you could just see the edge if I get angry crowd around them in different pieces of of for phosy of confirmed all of this but that one shot is just fucking amazing.

And what really is happening there is, you know, this point you're projecting yourself as we do in all these stories, onto this and and you're feeling good because someone is finally doing what you wish, someone we've done, you know, a month ago or whatever, when all of this bullshit started and stepping, they are up and stopped. Uh, what do you guys make of, I guess, the strangeness of this which is that fat boys for I don't know my entire life have been demonized and all of the sudden um you know exciting the world of uh the era of me too and sort of flappers were immediate suspicious in in every which way. I haven't seen really a single take down of them.

I haven't seen anyone. I saw people sort of expecting them to be called racist and what not, but I really haven't seen them attacked. I haven't yet seen the crazy rolling stone piece about why this is actually why supremacy at work IT seems like people just love them um what do you make of that?

Yeah I mean, I think you bring up a really good point about what the optics of the situation look like. If if you're just the average person seeing these images, what kind of take away would you get from this? And you know, I think you're right that he was like a renaissance painting.

Clearly, you're seeing some people standing up and defending the flag of their country as opposed to some angry mob. And the only imagine we see of the angry mob is these mass thaar's making demands of of new plane humAnitarian aid. So from that side, it's very clear who is doing a Better job of of trying to project an image of a movement that other folks have want to get involved with。

Um at the same time I get IT IT does feel content like because like a goal fund I was started for for the fatter unity and they got like hundreds of thousands of donations and then this morning I have started seeing like IT all miss you saw like the same thing like but turney guys showed up and they were like trying to get news coverage of being a gew standing up for amErica here too and h IT feels like every piece of information gets digested and turned into a content mill as fast as possible where, yes, you have these people who who who made the decision that i'm not going to let some disrespect the flag of my country here um and and that act itself you know of of of bringing down the american flag and trying to destroy IT I think IT really does kind of show the end game where we were headed with you know the whole idea of uh like A D I critical race theory approach that you know really spring fourth from the campuses and just got completely a magnified and multiplied during twenty during the black lives matter right in summer but the the old miss this morning I saw they begin using up. This is in the south look at all these White people this is Whitehouse and action they're going to silence protesters of color and is like a does that argument even move people anymore at this point? After all these years, I kind of feels just very tired.

Yeah, that's a good. I love that point. Um I was taking something similar because for the sort of a sliding different because there was what looks like to me like a quite kind of racist thing.

Um so you had a lot of things old. I I don't want to paint the whole process. Is this mostly what I saw was a bunch people made with the protesters for doing bullet shit in the middle, the yard, and yet people singing the national anthem. And what I think mostly IT seemed positive. I saw one dude for sure, do you like a monkey chain at a black woman, which I don't know if, like, maybe i'm only here some piece of news that makes that not races.

Maybe SHE was saying you're a bunch of monkeys and he acted like one but my sense, my god sense is like he was just calling you a monkey which in any other age like that's a court like that's a smoking gun that's like all you that should beyond every single news if you're leftist and I have in it's not even hitting like how was that I saw someone system of interesting they were like the avert racism on the palestine side. Um this is there you know there are pro sort of israel position, but they were like there's been so much racism already that people are it's like the the the bounds of acceptable discourse that totally broaden here. And now there's no sort of anti racist argument that you could even make because the whole entire thing is fundamentally a racist conversation.

You're talking about two ethnic groups at war with each other and um both sides are I mean IT seems like to me fairly racist about at all. Um I don't know but I I definitely did see what looked like a little bit racism. I don't know that that shocking.

It's slike it's the deep south. Um but I guess what's shocking to me is that IT IT really is not maybe be wrong, maybe tomorrow the outrage begins. But I was surprised that I did not get more attention.

No, I think so smug. I always want to call you comfortable. Ly, and that doesn't sound right. So so smug. I was thinking about the the old video too, and I felt like IT seems so coincidental that the one or two day is after the frame flag media event in which which they looked quite good. I I would say most people had nothing to complain about that everybody was for cheering them on that the old this uh like media event seems kind of like a rejoinder, like a like a really good response from the left um to because of the monkey, like the the guy doing the monkey dancer whatever towards of black lady don't .

do if I don't think that I don't know what the rules .

are here okay sorry. I didn't me to plan to .

my but a my observation was just like .

IT IT seems is is I like pretty coincidentally that those two things happened in such almost like perfect himesh you know it's like fat boys are good but I know that they are bad actually you the next thing happened and they're been uh almost unambiguously or one of them was seemed to have been unambiguously racist as long sax so thought that was interesting um IT does like to get IT IT seems the the whole thing for me is turned in to more of this like arena of hype cycles and like narrative competition as opposed to anything else like it's totally divorced from reality.

Another another observation I had um a little bit earlier when si was when Sandy was talking about the the kind of the actual scale of some of the protests on U C, L. A like. The protest, I don't I don't know if it's still there currently. But if you if you took a drone shot of the entire campus, you would see that the protest occupies like two percent of the campus is an incredibly small amount of of space. And i've seen one photo of like a bunch of people chilling and like having picnics, like in A A totally different part of campus, like like an everything is totally Normal so um yeah I guess I would say is if if it's thirty percent israel, thirty percent, Alice tian is also thirty percent media and this whole sort of scenario so yeah kind depressing yeah.

Why have I seen more footage of these protest? The actual war goza .

is no longer in the new cycle.

This is a point I was making actually to a friend of mine, because I, you know, I was having conversation, but whether or not I think, you know, SHE is a very in favorite of the U. S. Ceasing all military age to israel and and thinks that these are effective, these in camps are effective means to achieve that political goal.

And my sticking point with a beyond the the actual political goal, but just thinking about are these effective tactics, if that's your goal, is like, really, I think this is whose tends to benefit from all this is the media that's getting like a ton of money generating clicks on these stories. And I really do think that, you know, you have this as burning, saying this like hype cycle, where, okay, one day the frag boys are good, the next day they're racist, and one day the protesters are these refuse nix, the next day they're like crazy kids taking over a university hall. And lost in this entire like narco stic media cycle is the actual, are the facts of what's happening in gaza. It's like, totally, I don't know, IT just IT just doesn't feel effective for anyone. But you know, honestly, people have got to you work in media and and dino .

stand I sure my kids like if you if you're one of these people, they really seem to get some kind of attention base charge .

out of .

IT you they are living out some sort of fantasy. It's the attention piece is a very big part of IT um but I would say I would I had a great points I want to extended beyond uh evil what's happening in the war.

I just in terms of the funding question, I saw this really funny depressing meme where I was like a picture of rockets coming into television and then the wall blasting the rockets out of space and IT just said, like our taxpayer dollars and then they want up here are the rockets coming into television somehow also our taxpayer dollars OK. I would love to be doing, uh, be seeing coverage on people who do I don't do international itself, but empire age in general. It's like would you tech we look politics.

But for people who do national politics, I would like to see um over lenders coverage of the actual funding. Who is he going to? why? Why are we pay? Why we paying in both different directions? That seems weird.

I saw much of a mostow ks through the day rolling around with all of the food aid like that seems like a problem. That means that we're paying in, in a way that that means we're paying a moss where paying israel. Um and what are we getting out of any of this? It's really unclear to me.

Um and of course all of these questions are obvious ted by the show in front of us um which you know no matter how much i'd love seen those kids defend the flag and sort of leg the whole thing is really out of hand at this point and breaking me to something that is very much in our wheel house which is the discussion of free speech and legislation concerning free speech and um how that you know affects everything from college capacity to tech platforms. Um the one I want to talk about is this house antisemitism story. So so just to tea that up and I bunch of thoughts on this, but I would like kind of just break the story down for folks at home who have not but maybe been falling in. I do think it's significant and bread and I know you did some research on IT want to you a break the story .

down so um on wednesday there was uh by party of lege letters in the house which overwhelming IT passed the anti semitism awareness act and the way that the new york times frames IT IT was IT was basically a republican bill whose intention I was to put like a couldn't quote political squeak and the democrats for um tolerating or maybe even preventing anti cemetery m in and the whole course this protest october mon hype cycle. There's been a lot of like actually looking in to to what the bill says. Tablet has a really good explaining er on this in which they come out.

It's called not our name um they come out against the bill but they also clear up some of the some of them they say this information spreading about the bill on twitter um the bill is is pretty narrow in scope even though IT is kind IT is bad basically all doesn't IT mate that when uh universities are investigating anti empta cemeteries m they have to use the international holo cost remembrance alliance is definition eti emetics m so it's like they're basic like ify a specific definition of anti semitism into law for the specific purpose and that that definition of anti semitism is is more broad than you might expect like for example, um if you if you say that like is the existence of israel is racist, you can IT is now admissible in these investigations to say that that is that that is and d that is jewish WWW h discrimination. So again, IT doesn't mean that if you are a student who um or professor let's say that I would be more 的 who says that um israel is is racist。 That doesn't mean that you will be convicted of discrimination. Just means that like IT is admissible to say that that is discrimination now so that is that is the some total of what this bill does and that has not passed in the .

senate right dozen and senate um did pass fairly. I mean was IT not an overwhelming overwhelmingly in house. So that's that's enough. That's crazy to me.

I also I mean, you can be like, oh, israel is just like nazi germany or something, even there are some crazier ones to um there are linking the concept of federal funds right to these institutions. So if you don't control the anseau speech on capus, you lose the federal funds. That exactly title six, which is actually much broader than an diem is right.

Title six, it's like so this is like any racist language or I am assuming home my topic language, have to go double check this um it's it's a very broad thing. This read definition basically precludes you from um criticized in the state of israel in certain maybe really unseemly ways. Um people say crazy things all the time and this is just IT seems very strange to be going to such create length to protect one group of people.

And when you back up and you talk about things like these two in particular, the idea all israel and nazi state and the idea of saying israel is a racist state um that is table stakes for talking about amErica on college cabs okay, i've heard those things level against me and everything that I care about my whole life. Why is one nation protected and none of the other is a fundamentally though, the whole entire rule system is the problem. It's not like need to tweak IT to be more sensitive to jewish kids on campus.

We need to get rid of the entire concept of people should be protected from dangerous ideas. And then probably the real thing that we should be doing is getting rid of the entire concept of federal dollars going to private universities. That's crazy.

I didn't realize the extent to which that was happening until this bill can came up and that was what I double click. I am I going to mean why am I giving why is the question of my money going to columba even up for debate? IT shouldn't be happening. I don't care how much they like the nation of israel. Um so you what did you make of this bill?

I mean, I thought IT, I think it's crazy. I think it's basically um IT people have said that this is kind of like the ride B L M moment in some ways where they're sort of you know pursuing speech suppression through um are attempting to pursue speech pression through through legislative means. I don't think IT helps anyone really.

I mean IT just seems like the minute you have these kind of I I understand brand, what you're saying that this is not it's been sort of mischaracterized I think on twitter where people are saying, okay, indymedia speeches is now not going to be illegal and IT does seem like this is a sort of more circumscribed, uh, you know, it's just going to be defined potentially as hate speech. But IT seems like IT IT sets us on a path to criminalizing this kind of speech in a very european seemingly way um and I don't think amErica wants to be associated with european hate speech laws because those are just vehicles for tyre. Y really I .

guess smoke, what do you I mean, IT does seem it's definitely the republicans are behind IT. Um do you think so? That seems like a strategy.

You think it's an effective strategy that in dc, what do you know? What is the background information here? Do you hear anything? Do you 是 think king.

I I think IT can be seen as I get short sited political move in the sense that if you look at a lot of the polling um that's been done on the presidential election specifically, you see that the the background states that trump is beating by in its all set for one um the polling shows that the support for biden is soft especially because of this topic words you know folks who are uh angry that they think that you know joe biden should come out against israel. It's not that they're going in supporting trump s is just that they're not supporting biden and there is a possibility that they don't show up on election day.

So you know I think some republicans calculated this as you know, a way to press the issue um even more on that and and really ensure that you know that support is lacking um on election day but again, it's increasingly short sited IT especially given the recent history especially for republicans where for post covered there was ripe fully uh a huge code of censorship on on multiple platforms for speech and while this may seem for the time being as as you know having A A more focus scope in the sense of this effects, you know the funding that goes to universities and and speech there specifically. Always know legislation is always an opportunity for the government to try to run as far as they can and expand powers whenever that they're given the opportunity. And in that sense, I mean policing species like i'm just I said like in in bring specific like you seen so many horriston ies of where someone can be critical, like cases were open against, uh, uh, the Harry author, J J ing. So do we really want to live in that kind of a world here where the four father specifically built this country with in mind having the freedom to speak?

Well, I do anna back up and to say, again, it's not like the bill was outlying antisemitic speech, which were still, I mean, congratulations, guys were still allowed to do IT legally. It's the, it's the question of funding for schools, which the founding fathers also would not have been downed. It's a bigger problem here. Why is our money going to these people? Um I have a question of what strategy for you smoke um because let's say I mean clearly the revolves are trying to force the issue of anathemas m on campus um IT seems to me that uh there is an effort to, I do not know, hand these protesters to to sort pin them on biden and be like, look at these crazy people my sense is like that's not actually getting a matter because twenty twenty didn't matter and that was way crazy so why would this matter in my wrong? I mean, what do you think this I guess my question is um do you think these college protests um like I guess the hostage situations in collab a are they hurting by in there they relevant to me what's going on there? Maybe heard them on the lefts like what is the lay of the land there?

I don't really see IT moving the needle. I mean, I think it's just you know a short sited attempt to exploit softness ness in the support for for biden right now for another reasons, not just this issue but because the age issue um but trying to seized on this um to me seems incredibly short sited um you have this huge winning issues where for example, the situation at the border, which surprisingly know about six weeks ago the media at large started finally uh admitting that okay, so we do have a crisis at the border um but at the time and I express you know uh the feeling that I feel like this issue is getting too hot, too early to be able to be impact for in a general action.

And one behold, we're not talking about that. We're talking about kids on campus right now. Um and you know I think in two weeks will probably embroil in a new new cycle that has nothing to do with this. So I don't see there's any real political capital to be gained from this. Um I think a lot of republicans just saw as an opportunity, okay, especially the time in the house where's so much chaos of is there are going to be another attempt at removing the speaker um trying to get anything .

resembling points on the board that almost in a conspiratorial like um the IT was too early we talking about the border and so here we are talking about this college protests I mean is a conspiratorial like he said.

So like from time and moral we've had college campuses essentially being just where kids go to occasionally be not e and have a protest and and we didn't even see any imagery from these campus protests of like, oh, police are cracking skills is gonna like ago in one thousand nine hundred nineteen nine or something.

Um so we don't even have IT in that sense of IT to be occupying so much air time I think is just that know the rage news cycle works so quickly to boost clicks on websites and fill the airtime. Um but the the incentive is there for media companies like what this is working. This is this is a sugar high. We can up to clips for now. Um but in terms of actually moving the ball politically, I don't really see IT being that effective.

But we do have A A convention coming up also in chicago and you know, it's going to be an absolute what should show there is going to be crazy protest. I mean, I don't understand, left this angle here. Do they really think there are some chance that y're going get by in to relent? Or are they going to get some new canada in? I mean, I just don't understand maybe where the democrats how are the democrats thinking about this?

Well, so to me, the most interesting aspect of this is as there is maybe two or three weeks ago, you saw the pod safe. Guys who were there were the speech writers probably tight with obama uh cannot be very critical of the by definition rations hanging of the situation that they are being too partial to israel um and that was uh like when diving in yahoo is running for real election uh the obama campaign after they had already one twenty twelve they mobile some of their folks to try and fund and work for the opposition to defeat baby so for a very long time know not be on the best of terms with the yahoo and for them to come out overtly and be critical biden um shows that you know that is where a significant portion the progressive base is and also they feel that by can be moved and as a result you did see about you know by and start ratcheting up over to not know how like OK wrap this up uh let's get a ceasefire done so he definitely, there is all, you know on the left a little bit of movement that is possible on the subject, especially when the polling shows that the support for biden is so soft.

Well, the also saw is hard left policies, tax policies, right? The researches of it's like really crazy left his idea of the super gressier cap gains tax and things like this that felt to me like a direct appeal to the the absolute crazy people in this party. And it's like also super not bite historically.

That's just not he's like a kind of like swap creature middle the road guy and he definitely is swaying. How scenario is he? So that's real. How real izzi tell me that hearing.

So I I talk to you a lot of folks in the White house. Uh, I always make IT an open point. Whenever there's a democrat primary of you, everyone send me information on your democrat primary opponents and happy to get IT out there.

And in the press i'll say, you know, the evil republicans are added again, spreading this mean info about the democrats. And most campaigners are on the democratic are very eager to help and and so I maintain you know contact with those folks after you know if they go to the light house, whatever. Um but there is significant concern.

I think the the footage speaks for itself and these stories which keep coming out of like at this point now they have someone who walks with biden at all times, you know, when he's leaving the helicopter and and they're having to give them a set of directions for, okay, where you're going to walk after you get away from the podium because they saw what happened, uh, a couple months ago when when bine was at the podium and I just turned into an absolute shit show in prime time. So they really don't want to really have that moment where americans like sky isn't pretty bad shape, uh, things aren't going great. So that you know, probably the most significant chAllenges they are facing is he is in complete obvious decline to everybody and IT gets even more magnified.

When is, you know, opponent down? Trump is showing up two F D N Y firehouses in new york and handing and pizzas. So it's it's a tough place there.

Yeah, I saw that chick fully. That one was another just like another Donald rum classic yeah. Um I guess before we move on.

So the nature of these protest silver israeli palestine has, I do think, is this was the week that IT became just impossible to ignore because people really got crazy, not the topic. I mean topics always going to be crazy. The topics crazy my life.

I don't expect you to ever stop being crazy. Um but people sort of could not stay out of IT anymore um so whether that's the college protesters, that the media, uh that is um tech people. So we've had this conversation for a bit now.

Um i've got a peace um which I referred you last week as well. A called mission accomplish what we talked about, the mission first policy in tech that brian armstrong of coin base sort of famously champion. He was followed on by D.

H. H. And and then, I mean, everybody from facebook quietly doing IT to, most recently, google. This is sort of now the, I don't want to call standard and tech, but IT is certainly a mainstream acceptable position for a tech compete to take, which is ah we as a company or not going to be making um any kind of statement about any kind of political issue period unless that has something to do with our core business.

Um we're not going to be internally hold making space for people to talk about these really contentious political issues. We are here to work. You are not bringing your full your full self to work. You are actually leading like a significant portion of yourself at home. And you are going to behave in a respectable um colleague I guess.

Is that a word uh manner with your colleagues? Um so himes took a different approach this week um sort of right as the a kippy carren was demanding food be um uber delivered to her hostage situation um the homes founder who I guess his family is from gaza, perhaps he's definitely palestinian. Uh clearly very into this issue.

Uh D H he issued a statement on on x where he said, you know, encourage is more important than your college degree um if you want a job we are hiring. Sort of encouraging the protesters specifically in my mind, the columbia ones which were are in the news at at that moment coming, get a job selling hair loss treatments for men. So it's a great it's like an open it's I think it's a very valuable experiment for text to run um to see once and for all.

If um this is going to increase sales at EMS, right? I think they also do boner pills. So it'll be i'm dying to know if this new wave of hires who are storming in from, I guess, we know they weren't really arrested, right?

Their pack lunches or the pack breakfast, they're going straight to him to a start, dying people. And to, I don't know, these make these orders. Let's see if that works. I don't know what do you guys what you guys what you guys think of the experiment the the great um mission first or mission second verse mission second policy experiment of twenty twenty four who you think comes out ahead ran our strong or i'm sorry, i'm blacking on his name.

the him's guy you know I think people. That the criticism of a service mission second um was I I think never really about any particular cause that mission second companies would um you know would promote or would allow their their employees to be act act activists about the the argument against mission second has always been at at one point another in the future you are going to be on the wrong side of these activists that you let inside your company and that we saw this happen to every tech company um and silicon valley over the past two years. So I I don't have any reason to change my belief that, that will probably happen to the inside him um but like you said, so I think I think we'll see.

right? I think it's important because he does from what I read, he had a compelling story about why he cared about this stuff himself. I think that there is a huge difference between him speaking out about policy and him making a statement like that publicly on behalf of his company and encouraging these activists to come on work with his other employees um really in that way, when you're saying, you know you're being higher specifically because of these views, you're really encouraging them to bring those views to the workplace.

And now I as someone you know in sells at himes have to have a conversation about israel and palestine um over chapeau at noon. It's like a very hostile workplace environment at that point. That one I don't know how much longer this stuff can really be legal.

Like when is something going to sue and cause some real chaos for these companies? And then too I mean, how is that good for your business? I don't understand. Um I know smug you guys balling this at all.

Yeah absolutely. So um I think it's incredibly noble for him to welcome all these activists and what his company soak them up because I think that would really benefit every other company in this country if if the activist focus just on taking down one company from within because i've never seen an example of where you quarterly earnings go up because your employees are now you occupying lobby in making demands like they did a google um is is the exact opposite.

And I think, you know, tech companies did a good job of learning this lesson of where, okay, well, by by allowing, you know of the workplace to turn into a an activist daycare IT doesn't really actually help us ship anything that doesn't accomplish anything that the company's purpose is actually for and know. It's great to see IT took a while clearly for the lesson to be learned. But it's great to see that finally, the page is seemingly starting to turn on this because, uh, there was this really great mean.

This guy may putting up the the catheter care side by side with the frees tecture the flag where IT was like, uh, in fifteen years she's gonna be like the head of hr domain. You have to talk about whittling in the workplace and he's gonna be on the sales team taking a kind out to dinner, uh, you know saying, why don't we drop by waffle house afterwards? So who is actually gona end up bringing more utility to the company like you said, like imagine being on the sales end of that. And now you're going to have to get to a geopolitical conversation with somebody that you're just trying to sell some rogue to like how does that ever help sales?

Yeah I think it's like they're also not going hire anybody. Is not like these columbia kids there I mean ki pya carious thirty three um you know this is like most of these P H D students are from backgrounds where they can afford to fuck off until the bit thirty. I couldn't dream of doing something so stupid with my life where I was just handed money where I could go get up. P, I don't believe in what is for something that do you ever with her? H was in IT was something totally draining.

It's a let me see romantic. Um she's completed of literature, but it's .

romanticism.

okay? Her dissertation is on fantasies of limitless energy, no IT less energy, in the transatlantic romantic imagination from seventeen sixty to one thousand hundred and sixty. Her goals to write a prehistory of meta lic rift markis term for disruption of energy circuits caused by industrialized under capitalism.

So yeah, this girl, this is someone, this is not a girl who needs to go get a job at hms. This is a girl whose daddy is paying her rent and I think that um that means that what the hm guy was doing was really a classic sort of twenty twenty gesture from tech, which is we as a company are going to make a statement about this political issue um and I don't there is no political issue if if he'd come out in favor of israel I would have been like why are you doing this?

I think if you're someone like um paul gram uh, who has also been very spoken about palin um if you are something like sham wire who has been very outspoken about israel, it's very different. These are investors. They are not selling a product.

I don't understand how there is no potential upside. There is only potential downside. You're not going to solve the issue. You're not changing IT by.

It's like the nation was IT palestine does not need men's hair treatment on their side, right? It's like they need I don't know a different history first of all and I guess significant global support. Um I have no idea what I need. I don't know it's like way beyond my pay grade, but it's also way behind his pay grade.

He should just stay out of IT and um I don't know why he can IT seems IT seems like this is the kind of thing that should just end as a practice not morally but like IT has to breed itself out of the gene pool, right? Like there's no way these company's long term survive. It's just I I don't see that happening.

But again, we're running experiment. God bless. I hope that works out for him in either the brand direction or if he does, to hire a few of these people from columbia, that would be great for him. I want to talk about a parallel dimension called the motion of friends. So, uh, I was in a barcine for a wedding, did a quick just day trip to paris.

And I ve not seen paris man since I was a little kid I was like not a little that I was fifteen um and I remember I ve not many memories of IT I remember this one incredibly glares prostitute like I was looking down the from my place at the street and I thought and I was like, wow like paris is crazy remember heard like being kind of pretty and like yelling at some time in a car and like damn like this should do things differently here um but I did not remember was how beautiful everything was IT was very crazy. Um IT was an absolutely beautiful city. Every twist in turn was, uh, perfectly well caps.

There were gardens. The buildings were all seven stories high. So you add like the first ground floor of stores and then six stories of housing on top of them.

The architecture was gorgeous. The art was everywhere in gorgeous. The food was amazing. The cops were present. There was there was another for may day which is like um uh labor holiday.

And france paris tends to commemorate this holiday or celebrate this holiday with some sort of violent protest every year where workers come out and like demand more for free shit. Um this year was no exception. Uh, to that.

IT was a little bit smaller than last year, but I did technical counters of, I think, a riot one point. I didn't know anything about IT until I google IT later. What I did know was on my walk to dinner I saw like a i'm not joking.

um three .

hundred cops, four hundred cops, maybe the whole entire street was line with cars. They were coming in down. They were going down into the subway station, coming out of the subway station, both streets line, I saw various french police officers, like really attractive police officers with their helmet off, like casually, like leaning against, uh like a banner.

Smoking cigarettes um is just like they do things differently there. And i've got ta say, like, I mean, I love, I love america. I an american threw through but i'm feeling a little bit like Thomas jeffson right now. I am an award of the french people.

I've been following then a little bit for a while because there is really interesting place that is super french, right? France is full of people who love being french and they defend that again and again, usually against americans. So usually like you know we don't want to be like amErica um number where there are of moderate president being like we don't do walking here that's like an american thing and we're not bring we're not going in IT.

Um I remember even they have these really contentious fights over like immigration. Obviously um bridgie bar dell I think is been fined like three or four times for going after the muslim immigrants. And at one point he said something incredible her quote is, uh, in paris is not even the prostitutes with the same. They're just like the whole way that they go about everything is a for me as just like looking in very glamorous um very very and charged and sort of excited about itself um IT was not a depressed the Young people or not so depressed I just I I think there's a lesson here for us to learn um the entire western world is not like amErica are in fact, there are pockets of energy elsewhere and that was one of them that I I while I expected some of this, I did not expect so much vibrancy and so much life and so much enthusiasm um for really like the western world I guess uh as soon as I know you're A I don't anna call you a Frank file but I know Frank, let's go tell me about friends .

now I love france. I mean, i'm a big francophile speak french, love french people. I've spent a bunch of pretty considerable amount time in in france. And I think, mike, what you're pointing out is, is there is this kind of where is an amErica I think like owning the fact that you're proud to be american and that you recognize that there's culturally specific things that you and other americans do because you grew up in amErica is taboo, especially on, you know, people my age and it's sort of seen as like gossip, uneducated. That's not the case at all.

In france I think that's the the sort of high level take away ah that I have from from talking to a lot of french people, some of whom are like really left us. They're still like, yeah I love french food. French people dress Better.

They say openly um there's no sort of like, well, in a lot of cases, there's not the kind of cultural shame that we have and I think that's what as an american feels very refreshing about talking to them. Is that even when they criticize, they all hate their politicians. They all think they need to retire at fifty um and they'll write IT over IT um but they still do appreciate and recognize that they are like you know different from people in other countries .

and we are so often on different at it's like minor differences of cultural issues or political issues globally um that there is this this weird rival ry, maybe between amErica in france and there has been probably from the founding.

We've always been on the same side of every conflict is I think the only country that we have always been on the exact same side of um there are all this ally and um our histories in a weird way or sort inextricably not a weird way. There is sort of a no vert way inextricably woven together. Um I was just in york city and I saw um my way home to to my M C A C liberty, right and it's like this is it's always been there.

The path to to france has always been there and I felt kind of like, um I remembered a lot about amErica by being there. IT was a very strange feeling that I have not encountered in any other country um and IT wasn't like I wanted to just be like france. IT was like I I saw some other version of amErica through IT. And um there are some very practical things like housing. Um I really just like Frances paris is a city that was planned and so I just don't want to hear IT from people who say you can't plan cities, say like we know that we can plan them and we can plan them well there's actual evidence of IT I walk through IT IT was on imaginably beautiful every part of IT there is not a city that's more beautiful than paris um IT can be done probably a lot of their policies. I would grow ahead if I were there for longer than a day um but I know I loved IT to smog we had to say about the french or maybe I mean, is there any truth to that story about the president being married to him and is that can accurate IT because like even their conspiracy more exciting than our .

yeah I I mean, I think something touched on something really key to this is in amErica it's become almost in grain, especially to the education system. To to politically that 啊， you should be ashamed doesn amErica that uh amErica is a bad country with a horrible history and we should never forget all the terrible things. AmErica is kind of like doing everything possible to kill any sort of A A A pride or spirit that might be uh present to have no any any patriotic beliefs about your country and you absolutely don't see that.

Uh, in france I like exchanging I say like there are left is there but you won't hear from them that like haris is a terrible place with an awful culture and terrible food where as an amErica like you know that table stakes an understanding that oh yellow we're an uncultured or people are cow and and we can be saved. It's just been founded on racism and and there's no redeem quality of this country and and for that to be kind of like the the side gust right now, especially since, you know twenty twenty where is well, this is a fundamentally racist country and IT must a tongue for its sins um that's what what you end up getting is is is you know the the the capital of the planet for so long was new york city, right? And and if you visit that, I mean I I love there.

I became a place where um I want you to talk about I like getting the bacon icy and cheese at my favorite at egg right around the corner for breakfast all those both day as a got they're all now legal weed shops um the cyst rapid with crime. The leadership in that city offers nothing and there's no excitement or viBrant like new cities, no longer kind of like the proving ground for Young folks to be like I can make IT in york, I can make IT anywhere, kick off their career there, and then find their way in the world, if no wonders. D, that place in the world, and, you know, in a similar way. Uh, last boy spent a bunch of time in japan and and I saw the exact same thing you witness where, you know you have a country which doesn't feel like IT has to flog itself, which can have you know a law biting working society and uh then he had like bin cop, this we can say, well, it's a ennio holic country and and and they need to deal with that is you you know you've been analysis ed robber to and al of hours so it's interesting that you see even like the leadership in this country try to like go after and say here's this bad country. Here's this wrong with the country years where the people should feel bad about IT um and you really don't see that other .

places in the world yeah it's I guess speaking of the race components specifically, I mean, france is dealing with some serious racial issues that and I travel around and I saw I mean all different kinds of people in paris is a super uh racially diverse city um and it's very muslim um and yet IT just didn't feel like I just didn't feel like amErica um again a lot of this is like I was there for a day and i'm sure that IT all IT all hits differently later um maybe the one thing that for sure can hit this I don't need to know anything else about IT other than um what I saw was there is not an excuse for our cities to be so disgusting.

There just isn't like they doesn't have to be that way. I don't know why the new york city is filled with trash. I don't know why the buildings are look in this of residential is are smaller rather than bigger.

Um I don't know why our public transportation is so bad. I was said the paris trait wasn't as good as IT wasn't barcelona and spain. It's just cheaper to I have no idea why I ve tried to understand IT.

IT is like a super confounding issue but it's just much cheap er to build and run rail in paris. Um I think that's all i'd got to say about paris, though what they felt inspired want to go back one to french, want to talk with saga in french. Maybe that is my goal for this moving forward.

Ard, I would like to spend some time there. Uh, maybe problem of this summer is way too much going on, but I know after that I would have to follow a french election and just see how it's done on the other side. Um yeah pia wireless paris twenty twenty five uh somebody to look forward to um until next week guys, it's been real.

Banks is ever for following. Please subscribe. Please check out uh, smoke podcast if you haven't already and follow him on twitter.

Yis completely smug. He is the G, B O G. Um, that's that talk later.

Thank so much.