Dana White’s Done With Politics & Surviving The Next Trump Administration With Kathy Griffin
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It was hard work getting him to open up, but I, Kathy Griffin, had Marshawn Lynch spoon me, and it was tender and loving and sensitive. Man, what's happening, man? You got Marshawn beast mode Lynch. Doug Hendrickson. And Gavin Newsom, and you're listening to Politicking. You're on the beat. You're on the beat.

What's up, Gavin? What's up? What's up? What is up? Where are you? Where are you, by the way? I'm at home for a hot second. As you know, as any sports agent, listeners or kids that want to become in the business, the most hectic couple of months start really November, December, January, February. But as you know, Gavin, you know me for a long time. This is my hot season, my recruiting season, my go into the living room pitch seasons.

and to go get clients, as you know. And it's funny that the landscape has changed over the years. It used to be you started recruiting as kids like in September, October. Now you're recruiting high school kids. But in any event, what's changed is the other day I got a call from a family, and they said, so what are you giving us? And I said, I love the question. I said, you know what I'm giving you? I'm giving you 30 years of the best education

advice I can give you. I'm giving you an agent that knows the landscape, owners, general managers, head coaches better than anybody. I know the draft process better than anybody. I know how to get your son moved up the charts to make more money. I know how to help him post-career, how to help him for life. Okay. And they were handing you their Bitcoin account?

wondering when the transfer was going to occur? No. And they said, that's, um, that's great. We appreciate that. But no, what we're asking you is what are you giving us? I said, Oh, I kind of played dumb. I said, Oh, you mean, you mean more than that? I said, that's a lot. Uh, and they said, yeah, what are you giving us as far as how much you've given us? I said, I said, listen, um,

I'm not giving you a damn thing. I don't give anybody money. Haven't given anybody money. Not going to give anybody money. So if you want me to represent your son and look out for him, and like our old partner, I said to him back in the day, don't come at me sideways. The landscape has changed, Gavin, because of NIL, because of money. These kids now, agents are now paying these kids money.

massive signing bonuses. Just so everybody understands, I mean, this was a high school kid or this was a college kid? No, this was a college kid. Yeah, a college kid. But they're going around, they're trying to figure out who the best agent is on the basis of who can write the biggest check or hand over the biggest sum of cash. Yeah, the problem now is that you have, first of all, remember, you have these kids in college now that are getting $400,000, $500,000, $600,000 a year, right? So they're getting paid now in college.

And then there's agents now that are desperate for clients that are willing to say, you know what, I'm going to work. I'm not only going to work for free on the rookie contract, I'm going to give you three, four, five, six, $700,000 as a signing bonus that they're going to lose the money. The only way they make the money back is if the player gets a second contract and becomes a star. There's a lot of risk involved in that. You following me?

So that's sort of the landscape I'm dealing with right now. And so, and by the way, all that's legal under this name image likeness bill that this governor may have signed, but of course morphed into something very, very differently all across the country. But I mean, literally, is that, that's illegal? Like the parents can ask you for money or is that money have to go to the kid

Well, it goes to the kid. It goes to the kid. The parents are just asking. So look, it's all legal, but the sad part about it is that you have a lot of kids that are going to make a big, big decision based upon a transactional deal. I told a kid, listen, you can go to an agent that has no clients, take the money, but here's the problem. If he screws up the contract, guess what? You're at risk.

If he screws up other things, you're at risk. All the little things that go into it. It's not just, hey, you get drafted and boom, the rest is history. There's a lot of things that go into it. Can that agent call an owner and say, let me tell you about my client. Let me tell you why he's the best safety in the draft. Let me tell you more about his personal life. Let me tell you about his leader, his integrity, his values. If you can't get them on the phone, which you know I can, you've seen me in these rooms, then how good is that $500,000? I'll make you more than that by giving you the right path to success.

Hey, Gavin, I did have a question from a listener asked about California. And if Trump can do anything and call the National Guard in to round up people or get people out of here immigration wise, is that legal? Well, it's interesting. It's a question that we've asked ourselves. And it's interesting. People don't fully understand how the National Guard works. You've got Title 10.

and Title 32. It's a fancy way of saying under Title 10, the National Guard is under federal authority.

So the president of the United States has the ability and authority under Title 10 to direct the National Guard as he sees fit with limitations, particularly as it relates to the Posse Comitatus Act, which limits enforcement related to immigration. Number two, there is the Title 32, which is under the command of governors.

And that's federally funded, but state controlled National Guard. Unless President Trump nationalizes, federalizes the National Guard, meaning takes the Title 32 status and puts it under Title 10.

then I have the authority under my jurisdiction, under Title 32, to decide whether or not we would comply with any orders from the Trump administration. The reason Trump would prefer, I believe,

states under Title 32 to enforce immigration policy and to coordinate with mass deportation is that it doesn't fall under the Posse Comitatus Act, which actually restricts his ability to do some of that work. So it's a complicated question. There's legal questions related to that old Civil War Act, which is that Posse Comitatus Act.

But the Title 32 jurisdiction that I have as governor gives me authority where we can push back against any directives that we think are inconsistent with our values, the Constitution, inconsistent with our concerns or consistent with the concerns expressed by the viewer.

So to simplify, you know, when I go to, uh, restaurants, whether it be in San Rafael or good, uh, go to the Napa or go to see people like some of the restaurant workers and guys like that are women, uh, is there a fear for them to be, uh,

pulled out of their houses at the middle of the night and be sent away. I mean, you're already feeling that. I mean, there's a chilling effect that's already going on. I think it's going to impact already the conversation we're having. The election's already impacting legal immigration, not just illegal or irregular immigration. I was in

The Central Valley yesterday, I mean, no part of California, Central Valley, Central Coast, Silicon Valley in California, so reliant on immigrants. We're California state, 27% foreign born and many. And what that really implies is a lot of mixed status families. A lot of people here without documentation, living in families where people do have documentation.

We estimate 70 plus thousand kids are undocumented that get educated every single day. Are they going to keep going to school? You've got folks that are victims of crime, witnesses of crime that may not want to actually report those crimes to law enforcement because they're worried about their immigration status or a loved one's immigration status. God is my witness. True story, Doug.

Two, three days ago, someone came up to me, says they have a patient and introduced me to this person because I didn't believe them. I literally stress tested. I said, you're making this up. That is getting cancer treatment and doesn't want to get cancer treatment anymore because she's scared to death.

that someone's gonna turn her in when she goes to get those treatments. So from a health perspective, from a public safety perspective, from an educational perspective, from a legal immigration perspective that has been the lifeblood of so much of our economic output in California and innovation and entrepreneurial spirit, all of those things are being impacted already today. You then add on mass deportation camps

And this guy tries to nationalize the National Guard or compel people like me to turn the National Guard that are doing all kinds of good work all up and down the state, including forest management, emergency preparedness, dealing with these big floods that we're dealing with now and all these atmospheric rivers were helping us during the last fire season, and then turns all their attention to one thing, mass deportation.

we're going to have the kind of friction and the likes of which we've never even imagined or experienced, certainly in our lifetime. And so we're taking this very, very seriously. But again, Title X and Title XXXII,

two different relationships and two different frameworks of which the National Guard can or cannot be used for mass deportation purposes. And if you're not confused, you haven't been paid attention, but it is something that we are not confused by, meaning we are sort of locking in to an understanding of what our role will be in relationship to anything Trump tries to pull. Got it. Very good explanation. A little confusing, but it's...

It's interesting. It's just, and I will say just, you know, we've never gotten away. California has never gotten away of the federal right and authority to

to enforce federal laws with federal resources. We're not gonna get in the way of that. We've never gotten in the way of that. And we certainly agree, I agree, that someone here without documentation that commits a serious or violent felony, someone that served their time, I've vetoed a couple of laws where the legislature said that

that we shouldn't coordinate with ICE, we shouldn't coordinate with immigration authorities for people that have committed serious or violent crimes. I veto that because I think we should. And so we're not somehow suggesting that we're going to countenance or any way excuse that kind of behavior, quite the contrary. But it's these kids, it's those seeking healthcare,

It's the impact on mixed status families that we're going to protect and we're going to preserve and advance our values. We have a law called SB 54. And I'll just say, you know, on behalf of the National Guard, they've been our Swiss Army knife. I've asked the National Guard probably to do more than most other governors in California history, going back to some of the issues we

during the unrest with George Floyd to the work we're doing at the border to deal with fentanyl interdiction. We have 392 National Guard men and women working with our border patrol to address fentanyl interdiction. They've done an unbelievable job. I've asked them to help in Oakland some of the JAGs

under the National Guard to help in Oakland and Alameda with prosecution. We've, as I said, worked with them to deal with forest management, vegetation management, to help with the emergency response. They've been unbelievable to see them used in this rank political way

to advance mass deportations is something, especially again under this Title 32 framework, is not something that we're going to look at lightly and we'll push back very aggressively. Amen.

Hey, Gavin, I don't know if you recently saw the it was pretty interesting article on Dana White, the New Yorker, talking about how he's done with politics is disgusting. He's over it. And then look, it's funny. How the hell is he over it? He was as in it and deep into it as anybody out there in the last six months.

And by the way, for the record, I love what Dane has built. I love how he's grinding and all that. But it's interesting, Gavin, because he brought up the fact that when he would go into UFC fights and things with Trump, it was raucous, the ovation crazy. But then he said on the other side about the hate on the left. And so it's interesting. I've been with you where we've gone to –

where you've gotten booed like crazy, but you've gone to the Democratic Convention and you've been given the king's hat. So you've seen that for your whole life. Essentially, Dana said, look, I'm done with it. I don't like it. I'm not going to endorse anybody else anymore. He saw the vitriol and the hate of what went on on both sides. But it's an interesting comment because it's like, you know what?

I don't blame what he said, but I'm gears get your thoughts because you've lived, you live that every day. There's certain areas you go to. In fact, you were just in, in the central Valley. I'm sure you got some haters up there. Um, but then you come back to Marin County, probably get a little love. No, it's funny. I remember we were basketball game with Dana white, uh,

not too many years ago and in a less hospitable territory. And I remember a lot of folks talking behind his back just because he was starting to entering into politics, wasn't sort of the zenith of his political support, as was the case, obviously, with President Trump or President-elect Trump in this respect. But

Look, at least I admire Dana. Dana was always straightforward about it. He's like, look, I've known this guy forever. He's had my back. He's been straight with me and I'm a loyal guy. I'm going to follow through. So, I mean, he had a theory of the case that didn't even have to get deep into the policy weeds, was more on the basis of a longstanding relationship. Obviously, I imagine he shares a lot of the same policy perspective as well. But, you know, I appreciate that. But look, that's what we look. We've talked to a lot of guests on this podcast about that.

And when people have the courage to come forward to express their political point of view, a lot of people will applaud that and celebrate that. A lot of people are going to be pissed off. And right now in a 50-50 world, and let's not forget, it's a 50-50 world, a less than 50%, just shy of 50% of the country. And this quote unquote, so-called landslide supported Trump. It wasn't much of a landslide. It just reinforces

the nature of this tension between the two parties and those that are advocates within those parties. So look, I get it and I appreciate what he's saying, but I also admire people that have the courage of their convictions as well. So hats off to Dana for having the courage of his convictions, people that put themselves out. And I know, Doug, we got someone who's coming up on this pod, Kathy Griffin, who I know well.

has been way out front on politics for many, many years, but a perfect guest to really amplify and discuss this because she got into it a lot with a lot of folks when she did something a few years ago. We'll talk about when she gets on related to her comedy. And she expressed her discontent with Donald Trump at the time. And she paid a big political and personal and professional price for that as well. So maybe she's the better person to ask, Doug.

There you go. Let's bring her on. Getting some holiday shopping done this weekend? Pick up some touchdowns. They're on sale at DraftKings Sportsbook. DraftKings has door buster, profit boost, and bet one, get one promotions on all types of touchdown bets.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know what, guys? I think it's important that we all just take a moment and thank someone in our lives. And for me, I'll just start. For me, it's my four kids, Dutch, Brooklyn, Hunter, and Montana. Well, Gavin, I'd like to thank my mother, who has been a single mom since 1986 and been a phenomenal mother and a grandmother ever.

And a person in the community. So I'm going to thank my mom, Gavin. I appreciate it because you know what this month is, Doug? Marshawn, November, it's all about gratitude. And along with your mom, with my kids, we also need to thank ourselves. I know it sounds ridiculous. No BS, man. With all the stress, the anxiety this time of year, we've been talking a lot about the elections. We've got the holidays coming up.

It's important we pause and reflect and be grateful for those around us and all the hard work we're doing every single day. And it's just important to take care of ourselves, man. And Gavin, a great way to reflect and gain some perspective can be with therapy. I know from my own experience how beneficial therapy can be. Therapy helped me.

when I was going through the grief of losing my father. Well, there's a lot of stigma, as you know, Doug, with therapy. And we've been trying to do everything we can to address the issue of stigma and sort of break that down. But if you're experiencing anxiety, I mean, it worked for you, man. Therapy can help. And you shouldn't be ashamed. No one should be ashamed for seeking help, particularly if they're feeling anxious. And so it's not just you, man. There's a lot of people out there struggling and suffering alone.

particularly those that have suffered a major loss like you did. You just have to fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if you want, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash GMD today to get 10% off first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash G-M-D.

All right, Kathy. Remember me? Yeah, no, I've not been able to get you out of my mind ever since we hung out together in the governor's office. We had a kiki. Okay, don't tell me what a kiki is. What is a kiki? Like a convo, like two people just sitting down and letting it all out. We were letting it out. We were both expressing...

Yes. Frustration, stress, anxiety. We were emoting. Well, Gavin, I mean, Kathy's not afraid to talk. So did she talk a lot that day, Gavin? It was kind of a one-way conversation where I just went, I know, I agree. I'm sorry. I did most of the talking. You'll see, I'm going to do the same thing here. So good luck getting a word out twice. By the way, Kathy, my only recollection. He just started crying. He burst into tears and then a rocket.

Rock him like a baby. You made me feel guilty. Somehow I was responsible for the issue that we were discussing. I was like, how am I being blamed for this? Because it's your fault, Doug. Being governor. Oh, boy. Kathy hasn't had any stress, Doug, as it relates to things being her fault. Certainly not in the political realm or with anyone of higher office. Well, the good news is, Kathy, you've stayed away from politics so effectively over most of your career, correct? I know. I know. Look.

I tried. I tried. So I'm going to say I did my best. No, but Kathy, honestly, it's an honor to have you on. I've been a huge fan of yours for a long time. I wish I could say the same. I don't know who you are, sir. I know you don't. I know you don't. I mean, I'm struggling just to convince his three kids of his status as well, Kathy. Well, if you can find them. Now look, we're here to have fun. What happened to Marsha and he got canned? Yeah.

He's got cat. He's on. It turns out he may be on that same list. You were on the no-fi list. So we're trying to figure out where he is. So, so Kathy, let me ask a question. When you go, when you go through like TSA pre, do they stop you and say, Hey Kathy, Hey, you're, you're now you have a big check saying you're on the no-fly list. You're on the no list. Is it, is there like a screen at the airport for you?

I love that you think when this happens, they call me Kathy. Like they're like, uh-oh, uh-oh. Okay, Miss Griffin. But keep in mind, the Interpol list, which is the international version. So I was stopped everywhere from Los Angeles airport to London Heathrow, South

So Singapore was really fun. And then I was on something called the Five Eyes List, which is the actual terror watch list. That's a big one. Yeah. And we shared that with four other countries. And so they take your passport, they take your phone, they put you in a detention room for an indiscriminate amount of time.

And it is scary as hell. So by the way, if you don't know my backstory, hi, I'm Kathy Griffin. Never meant to be a controversial comedian. I usually just tell like Kardashian jokes. And I took a rather infamous photo of holding up a Halloween mask of a certain ex-president, soon to be future dictator, who shall be unnamed, with some ketchup on it. You know, a little Perseus and Medusa thing.

I can imagine you in that cell. I watch smugglers all the time when these guys come over from Colombia and they're detained. And that's you right there, Kathy. I love it. It was like a living episode of Narcos for four years. Yes. I wasn't running any drugs. I was just telling dick jokes. But I actually could not even tour in the United States. So I toured overseas first where I was beloved and welcome. And then I went to the United States.

And I knew to tour Canada before I came back to the U.S. And then I was finally forgiven. And I'm actually back on tour now for the first time in six and a half years since the Trump photo scandal. And I'm on the Kathy Griffin My Life on the PTSD list tour. Get it? And I used to have a show called My Life on the D-List. You can watch it on Peacock.

And I have been on many lists that no other comedians in history, like me or not, I am in the history books. In fact, no other citizen has actually been on the Five Eyes list for taking a satirical photo of the president. But yes, I've made my mark. But I do have an announcement, which is in my new show, which I'm about 50 cities in. I just played Carnegie Hall two weeks ago. It was magical. I don't even mention Trump in my new show.

So I just want people to know that it's not that I'm afraid of him. Obviously I just, I told that story and now I have the PTSD that goes along with it. So I make,

I'm making light of my own PTSD, and I still have a lot of good celebrity gossip that I throw in with the old Kathy Griffin razzle-dazzle. Well, Kathy, by the way, back to our co-host, Marshawn, who's not here. He did actually was on the no-fly zone into Canada. You got into Canada. He was not allowed to get into Canada because he had some issues back in the day. So that was the one country he could not get into. I wasn't making that up, Kathy. I was not making that up. First of all, I love it.

When it comes to Marshawn, it's issues back in the day with the international terror watch list. Hold on, Kathy. So let me ask you a question. Are you still on that list now? No, you can't fly if you're on it. So I really couldn't fly during the investigation. So how many lawyers, how much money did you spend to get off that list? Yeah.

About a million dollars. Did you really? Wow. Okay. And how do you get, I mean, do you, is there like a lawyer you go on the yellow pages and say terrorist watch list lawyer who can defend, who do you even go to to figure out how to unwind something like that? Well, first of all, I have amazing lawyers.

I've actually been sued seven times by Trumpers since the Trump photo. I have an outstanding case in federal court in Tennessee. I've had them all dismissed. I've had cases in the Eastern District of Kentucky, Kentucky State Court, L.A. Superior Court.

And now my Tennessee case is outstanding. Okay, that aside, when the Trump photo scandal happened, he just retired. But I had an amazing First Amendment attorney. My attorneys now are still great. But my attorney, Alan Isaacman, is the real guy that Edward Norton played in the film The People vs. Larry Flit. Oh, wow. Remember the movie?

me? I know. It's so good. The first time I got into trouble, I look it up and I'm like, I wonder if that guy is a real guy and still a lawyer. I cold call him. I'm like, you're not going to believe this. And so he was very, very helpful, but

I didn't just get a call from local PD and I'm not putting myself in their category, but even the great George Carlin and the great Lenny Bruce, they were hassled by local PD. I had the feds. I had the feds coming after me. They did a full investigation. The

The FBI was coming to the house about twice a week. And I will say I'm not anti-government. The FBI, I credit, was saving my life because they would come to the house and do something called, which you know, I'm sure, Governor, a duty to warn, which is when they could detect credible threats versus non-credible threats. They had a duty to come to my house and physically tell me what the threat was.

as much as they could, because they couldn't always tell me every detail. And that went on for weeks, if not months. And they would say, well, there's a bomb threat at this venue, or there's a very serious actor who's specifically mentioned how he wants to murder you on this day. And they would give me as much information as they could. And I'm telling you, I got so used to seeing those guys. It was like cheers. Like when Norm would come in, I'd be like, yay! Yay!

guys, what's going on this week? But when I was interrogated under oath, I had two agencies coming after me at Trump's behest. I filed a FOIA, got it back. It was the Attorney General and Trump, of course. And the seriousness with which they were actually trying to charge me with conspiracy to assassinate the President of the United States. Jesus. It's shocking, which holds a lifetime sentence, as you know. And so...

When I was interrogated, it was by two agencies, the Secret Service and the U.S. Attorney's Office. Governor, explain the difference between those two agencies. I'm serious. Go ahead. No, daylight and darkness or sunshine. I mean, it's just order of magnitude.

So the Secret Service was frankly looking to see if they could. And the U.S. Attorney's Office was ready to file the charge if they could find enough evidence. And so I have to find the comedy in everything. And I have to say there was a little accidental comedy in my interrogation, which was they said, do you have any firearms or weapons in your home? And I said no. And they actually let my attorneys with one of the feds do

They didn't do a no-knock raid on me, so I was grateful for that. They let one of my attorneys do the house search and stuff. And I have a sword from the Gay Swordsman, which is a gay porn company, and I hosted their awards once. And if you could have seen me under oath...

Being caught saying, oh, I do have a sword. Now, keep in mind, there's a picture of me holding Trump's head. And all of a sudden, they got real quiet. And my lawyer gives me a slow look like, oh, no.

And then I'm trying to explain hosting this gay porn award show and how ironically the porn that won that year was called justice. And the plot of it was where he was being interrogated. Not unlike this, sir. Although in this film, they weren't following protocol. In fact, it ended up where they all had sex and my lawyers looking at me like this. He's like, Oh,

Like all the money wasted, all my feet wasted, but they didn't do it. They couldn't find. And I still have my gay sword.

Well, Kathy, let me ask you a question. Were there days and weeks or months where you're like going, okay, dude, my house is tapped. I got bugs everywhere. People came over and you're like whispering in the garden. Like, hey, I can't talk. Like, did you think, did you go through some psychosis? Like they're onto me. Like I can't talk. They're watching me at all hours. I'm going, I'm maybe going down for this.

Wasn't paranoia or psychosis because I don't know if you guys remember Christopher Wiley, but he's the Cambridge Analytica whistleblower. Here's the guy that testified before the house and the Senate. One day he had pink hair. One day he had green hair. Gay guy. Of course I love him automatically. So he did a bunch of research and he said, you know, they tracked you for a really long time. And I said, yeah, I know. I know Trump was itching to charge me with something. And yes, it's a weird feeling. And, and,

And yet I just had to go through it. And like I said, I just want to stress, I am not anti-government. I know they had to do their due diligence at his behest. I don't want it to happen to anybody else.

I, well, I'm not any more careful than I used to be, but I did not violate the first amendment. I did reach out to my attorneys prior to posting that photo and governor, you're an attorney, you know, it was covered. And so people think I just willy nilly posted this gory picture. No, of course I've been doing this for decades. You guys, I'm 64 and I don't know any of the other amendments. By the way, did you fire that attorney for saying, go ahead and post it, Kathy? No,

no, he had to, he helped me prep for the interrogation. Okay, good, good. I know we can make light of this, but I mean, it's,

You've had a hell of a few years, Kathy. And obviously it must be, I can imagine, I don't know, but so much now of when your name comes up, we have this conversation as opposed to Guinness Book of World Records, more, you know.

21 standup comedy specials. Can't make it up. No, but it's like next level career, next level success, which continues to this day. And we're going to get back to your tour in a minute, but, but I, you know, it's so interesting. And Doug, you remember just briefly, we were talking to Marshawn and George Lopez and Lopez had a little bit of a similar issue where it's just, when it comes to presidents and, and the secret service, it's just, it's the one area. You know,

You don't play around. No, because they're serious people. They have a serious mission. They have bosses. When Jason Leopold from Bloomberg filed the FOIA, it was quite shocking.

And the amount of discretion that the Los Angeles Secret Service office used to pursue the case that they knew was BS is upsetting to me. But, you know, that's bureaucracy and not everybody's going to agree with me. And I understand and I really do respect everyone's right to hate that photo or hate that I did it. I just want people to understand it is covered under the First Amendment as a comic.

made fun of every president ever democrat or republican i feel it's part of a comedian's job i thought that photo was gonna live on a gay blog for two days and nobody would ever see it i wasn't on a tv show at the time i do have a history with trump i've known him for at least 25 years maybe 30 he's hired me one time he paid me 50 000 to go to bedminster and roast him

And I remember he's a total pussy. He's like, oh, don't make fun of the hair. Here she comes. Here she comes. I go, you called me Donald. You know, I he was known as the Donald. I call him Donald. You'd say it's the Donald. I mean, that's funny in itself.

No bullshit, Kathy. You've lived, in all honesty, you've lived 300 lives. Too many. And yes, I have the Trump scandal, lost about 75% of my friends that never came back, blacklisted by my own beloved industry, became addicted to pills, tried to take my life, went on a 51-50 cycle for three days, like I'm, you know, Brittany and Kanye combined. I basically walked into my own act.

I then got diagnosed with lung cancer, even though I've never smoked, had half a lung removed, was injured during the lung surgery. So my first was like about three years later,

That messed with my head. And then you guys, 10 weeks ago, a female surgeon, Dr. Anca Barbu at Cedars, she gave me an implant in my left vocal cord and I have my voice back. So I'm so grateful. You guys, just to be back on the road and to be playing Carnegie, I'm so grateful.

I kissed the stage at the end of the show. I got down on my hands and knees, and the lipstick mark was there, and I'm just grateful to be working. I'll be at the Masonic in San Francisco. I just played the Wiltern in Los Angeles.

We will be there. We will be there for that one. I hope so. I had my first gig on New Year's Eve since I got shit canned from CNN for the Trump picture by Jeff Zucker, who got fucking me too out of a business. But I'm still canned. Anyway, I'll be at the iconic Chicago theater on New Year's Eve.

But Kathy, in all honesty, like what you went through, like give me how did you number one battling back from that? Kudos to you. I appreciate that because that that's that's big time. Second of all, second of all, who is who is your support team to kind of help you through those those those stages?

I'd be honest. That's been the hardest part. And I think that, you know, I've been a happy workaholic my whole life. And I tell the audience this, I say, I call my show an evening of honesty and I didn't know what to do with myself when that happened. And I get a kick out of people that come up to me and say, oh, but it's fun having all those people apologize to you. Right. Not one.

Not one person. I lost the CNN gig. I'll be honest. I really loved Anderson Cooper. I thought he was my buddy. I loved doing that gig. I did it for 10 years. You know, Andy Cohen replaced me. He was my boss at Bravo when I had my life on the D list, which won two Emmys. It hurts. I wish I could dress it up in a joke, but you just kind of have to deal. So I just found a kind of a problem.

a proud member of AA as a ex pill head. And so that was one way to meet some people that, you know, at my age, I thought, how do I meet new people? So I met some new folks that way. And then my, my group is just much smaller and I have these salon parties and it's just a 12 person party where there's no phones allowed at the table. And,

that way you get to really know people and only one person is allowed to talk at a time. And I usually have a guest of honor and I'll have somebody that's kind of been through the fire. I've had two for the great E. Jean Carroll. I had one for Monica Lewinsky. I had one for Dylan Mulvaney, who's also suffered far right hate. So sometimes I'll just have one for someone wonderful like Ron Funges, who's just a great comic. But I like to kind of pick somebody that maybe needs to be celebrated a bit.

And those kind of kept me going too. So just connecting with people. But like I said, I

I'm a road rat. I'm a comic through and through to be on the road. I don't care if I'm doing, you know, some, I, honey, I'm going to the real America. I was in Oklahoma last weekend. I was in Texas. I was there too. I was in Norman. I was right there. Honey, I played Nora. I can't even tell you how many times I played Oak city. I was thrilled to be back. Um,

I got a show in Buckhead. Oh, you guys get this. I had a show in Augusta, Georgia, and they had to cancel it because they only sold 27 tickets. So I'm like a politician. It depends on if the county is blue.

blue or not. I swear, I tend to have better sales if there's a Democrat governor and senators, but I'm still going to the red cities because I know that there are ladies and gay guys that are, they love to say, I'm a blue dot in a sea of red. So I go there too. I'm going there. I'm not afraid. Strangest thing I've been out on the road.

And the biggest crowds I've ever had ever are in those states because people don't always show up there and they appreciate. So I totally appreciate what you're saying in terms of the people come out. But is it just it? It's, you know, by the way, prior to the Trump photo, it was never like that. I wasn't considered a political comedian. Right. I was never considered a lightning rod. My.

My whole brand has been making fun of celebrity and I still do, but the Trump photo changed up irrevocably. So I just have to adapt to it. And as you know, it was, I wanted to pick up with where I was going was where Doug was going in the beginning. He said, if you did that today. Yeah. Yeah.

It may have just been a little, you know, maybe, you know, a couple little blogs back and forth, some sort of expressed outrage, a feigning of outrage. When he won, I reached out to about seven of my attorneys. And by the way, my attorneys all adore me. All their kids are going to college because of me. Anyway, every single one of them, I was like, I'm so tempted. I want to post the picture again. I want to post the picture again. And every one of them, and you know, the lawyers speak.

Dear Kathy, while I completely understand and agree with you, you do have an outstanding case in federal court in Tennessee coming up. You don't want to take the jury.

et cetera, et cetera. And by the way, the case that I have is there was a video that went viral. You may have seen it three years ago of a CEO. Who's a mega guy. And his name is Sam Johnson. And he was the CEO of a hospital company and he's on tape harassing two trans kids at their prom photo shoot. I,

I've been the A in LGBTQIA my whole life. I'm an ally. You're either a real ally or you're not. And sometimes being an ally isn't just wearing, you know, a pride flag t-shirt. Sometimes you got to go the distance. So I tweeted about the guy. He got fired. He blamed my tweets for it, but I didn't even know it had already gone viral on TikTok the day before because granny here was still on Twitter. But anyway,

anyway, that's just the new normal. And I do find that since Trumpism, people are more litigious. And I say this after decades of calling celebrities every name in the book and never being sued. And people did seem to have a better sense of humor. And I always thought politicians were fair game, maybe more than anybody. Yes, yes. So I hope

that we're not look and I'm not complaining about the woke mind virus I'm not one of those I think it's a comic I

I should evolve. I don't want to use words that would hurt someone's feelings. I want to learn and grow. On the other hand, we are at a tipping point where we do need to have a bit of a better sense of humor about ourselves. But don't you think that's happening, Kathy? Don't you think there's sort of a sense that this pendulum is starting to swing back, sort of woke us down? I was reading all these blogs today. No BS. I look at this. There's a blog I get every morning called The Writing Blog.

R-I-G-H-T-I. And it has about the top 10 of the right wing blogs. And there were three or four this morning saying woke is dead now. Trump winning. Cancel culture is over. We finally found this equilibrium. But I find it highly ironic that cancel culture is over and yet you're still

Yeah. I mean, no offense, but I should have a TV special. Like, I don't the fact that I don't have a special and my agents came out and said, and I appreciate the honesty. They said the industry is still squeamish about the Trump photo. So I it's very bizarre. I I like I said, I just don't want to fall into that trope world of like.

Wokeism is bad or it's over. I mean, in my personal experience, it ain't over when it comes to Donald Trump and his folks, but it's over about everybody else. So I feel like there should be a standard that's across the board. And that's how it used to be. But look, like I said, we still evolve. There are comedy clubs in parts of the country where they still say F-A-G-G-O-T and people still laugh at it. And obviously,

I would be mortified. So we have to realize also, and that's why I do like going to the real America. It takes time. People took a long time to get offended. They're taking a long time to get unoffended. But yeah, the cherry picking is where it gets kind of weird. And I'm just going to say a word that I know you guys probably are sick of, but the misogyny is really pretty bad in standup. And so I still have people say-

It's too bad you don't think you can be funny unless you curse, which is just not something they say to the guys. So I'm just happy to be out there because there aren't that many of us, especially 64. So to me, every show is a win. Every show is a win. But no, I think I think the pendulum is starting to turn back a bit more and it's about time.

Well, Kathy, you're a rock star. Let me ask a question back to your personal life. Did the pills and addiction come as a result of the photo? Like, were you on a, before that, were you living life cleaner and whatnot? And was that a result? You don't even drink, right? No, I'm not.

never had a drink in my life to this day. And I think that's why I didn't think I could be an addict because I've never had a drink. And I don't mean to blame everything on the stupid Trump picture, but I have to laugh at the fact that I basically became a junkie at the age of 57. Who'd

Who becomes a junkie at 57? Nobody. I'm supposed to be trying on my diapers. Was there a pill of choice or was it all pills? All of them. I wanted everything to be just blotted out. I couldn't feel anymore. I couldn't deal with anything. And then it got ahead of me.

and then it was winning and then the suicidal ideation started which never would have happened without the pills and so I even talk about that in my show but I do do the disclaimer I am not making fun of suicidal ideation I've been there this is just my story but

I have people that come up to me after the show and go, I'm glad you talked about it. Yeah. Kathy, you're, you're, by the way, you're an inspiration. What you've been through. Like I said, you've been through 300 lives. You've, you've lived a life to help people out because what you went through, I mean, who else in the country has gone through what you've gone through? Honestly, I mean, you've gone through attempted suicide pills, the Trump photo that, I mean, you've gone through a fricking eating disorders. My gosh, Kathy, you had me at no wireless.

I know. Come on. There's more. There's more living to do for me. I got the list here, Gavin. I can go over them all. I mean, I know. It's what's not on the list that's the more interesting thing. I promise not to become a QAnon, no matter what. I will not become a QAnon. QAnon.

You haven't been committed. You're next level champion for the LGBTQ community. You've been, as you say, the A. But why? That's interesting to me. Why have you been so consistent? I named my show back in the day, My Life on the D-List. And I call myself a D-Lister because I understand I'm not on the A-List and I'm fine with it. And I think there's humor in that. And I think...

There's an organic relationship that I've had with the community since I can remember for real. Like in first grade, I was that kid that recognized the quiet boy that for some reason seemed a little like he wasn't feeling like he was fitting in.

And then I sort of turned into that girl in junior high that was with the guys from the musicals. And I know that's a cliche, but I'm sorry, it was true. And so, you know, I only went to one dance in my four years of high school. I went to one prom with my gay guy bestie and I officiated his wedding, you know, all of it. And so it's everything. I think there's something about feeling

feeling like as a woman, I have to work harder and jump higher and keep proving myself over and over and over. That is probably the sensibility that we share. And also, you know, I have a fighter in me. I don't know if it's my crazy drunken Irish parents who I miss every day, but they had, you know, my dad was a precinct captain and my mom worked the poles and you had to come to the Griffin dinner table.

you know, not necessarily a college education, but you had to read the Chicago Times and the Chicago Trib every day. You had to know which alderman was on the take. I was a kid, Mayor Daley, the corrupt dad was the mayor. And we would talk about that. And it was just a kind of

a political household, but really just as a hobby. My dad worked in retail and my mom was a working mom in the admin office of a hospital. And so it's just kind of what I grew up with, not with stuff handed to me, but also not with absolutely nothing and dealing with a

crazy family of alcoholics and trying to figure out my place. And I think that's what a lot of gay folks are doing, but especially back in my era, guys that couldn't come out, girls that couldn't come out, they could come out to me. And there's something

It's a vibe that you feel, you know what I mean? It's something that I have to this day. Look, I have friends to this day that are in parts of the country where if I have a friend who's a 70 year old construction worker in a part of the country where he cannot come out and he has to listen to the other guys on the job. Still L F A G jokes all day, every day. He's got a husband at home that none of them know about and,

And he just deals with it. And so I want to go to that guy's town and make him laugh. And I want him to come over to my house for lunch and make him laugh or whatever it takes. But I just want us city folks to remember there's a whole country out there.

I love it. By the way, Kathy, just I'm curious what, and I appreciate the spirit of everything you said, not just what you said too. And, and, and, and seeing that person that no one else has seen and, and, and feeling that having that empathy and, and feeling that connection and being a champion for folks and being their voice. Did, did the, did you, and it's a, it's a general statement. I mean, it's a general question and it may not be a fair one. It may not make any sense, but did you sense that the community, the,

abandoned you a little bit after 2017 in the, in the photo? I felt the power gaze did not the, not the actual community, but to be absolutely honest, because it doesn't matter. They're, they're not hiring me anyway. I, it, it hurts that I feel for decades, I showed up

I hosted every gig. I did the auction, the most thankless job, by the way, of any charity event. I did the auctions. I donated the tickets and the meet and greets. I, you know, and I just have to be honest. I learned a tough lesson, which that when it comes to powerful men and look, there's people like Mark Andreessen, I'll be in a fight with, and he's a gay guy. And I, I,

that in my experience, these guys were still privileged guys first and gay second. They would probably not agree with that assessment. I'm just telling you, it hurts. And I shed many tears over that. I'm not here to make enemies. I see these guys. I say hi, I hug. Maybe they're not aware of it. As you know, there's a lot of subconscious stuff that's going on.

But yeah, I did feel a bit deserted by that. No, totally get it, Kathy. So like I said, going back to how many summers we have left in borrowed time, you and Anderson Cooper were so close. If you reached out to him to say, listen, man, can we get together and hug it out and break some bread?

I finally reached out to him this year. It took all this time. And, you know, I was very, believe it or not, I was very close with his mom, the great Gloria Vanderbilt. And a lot of people don't even know his mom was Gloria Vanderbilt. And I actually knew Glo, as I called her, better than Anderson because we just clicked. And something just made me think about her. And I thought, you know, let me just reach out to Anderson and tell him that

And I was thinking of all these sayings. She also, I mean, she was epic. She would say stuff like, you

you know, I fucked hot Brando, not fat Brando. I mean, how can you not love a dame like that? That's my kind of girl. And she would say things like, you're never done and there's always more. And she had that like rich people, Connecticut accent and stuff. And she had lived such a life. And so I just was missing her one day. And so I emailed him and I just said that. I said, I'm missing your mom and I miss the sex.

sayings they stay your whole life can change in one phone call and I just said I just want you to know I'm thinking about you and I'm missing her and he wrote me back and he said you know I miss your mom too and your mom was always so sweet to me and my mom adored him and so what will happen but at least there's been one email exchange and that feels better than just nothing you know

Anderson, I'm giving a shout out to Anderson to come to one of Kathy's famous parties. You can be the guest of honor. I'll do it. Anderson, get off CNN Studios. Go. Let's get to LA. How about Andy Cohen? I mean, you guys have connected now?

That's a tough one, man. Like I said, he was my boss and I got canned and I loved working at Bravo. I loved doing specials and I had a talk show there for two seasons and my life on the D list was Emmy nominated every season and won twice and I

I'm not his cup of tea and it hurts. It just hurts. I can't, I'm not going to say anything good or bad. It just, it kind of hurts. Well, Kathy, so let me ask you a question. You're grinding so much. You're working your ass off. The tourists kicking ass. You're doing amazing things. Do we have a love in your life right now, Kathy, that makes you happy? Excuse me. I think I should be the next golden bachelorette.

Okay. How about that? You ready for my pitch? Yeah. Jesus. Here it is. I'm not sure it's PG. It's not. Okay. So I, the current one is great. I love her. I'm pulling. I love. Okay. So Kathy Griffin's the golden bachelorette. The first episode where there's the most bachelors and the most roses. I fuck each one, each one. And then I decide what did I

Did I lose you? No, I mean. No hidden cameras, just a little blur here and there for the cellulite. Boom. Ratings gold. You heard it here, folks. What do you think, Doug? You're an agent, Doug. What do you think, brother? Well, I think, by the way, I'm a sports agent, Kath. You might need a better agent because you can't even get you on that one show, your own tour right now. Having said that, I know people at The Bachelorette. Maybe we can make that happen. Really? Here we go. Thank you.

Yeah, I may want to come up with a first kind of a re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-

on the road, KathyGriffin.com for tickets, New Year's Eve, the Chicago Theater. Look,

I love it when people watch my life on the D-list and they have nostalgic feelings about it. It's on Peacock. I'm so thrilled they finally put it on Peacock. And I own all my libraries. So I own my life on the D-list. I own all my 21 specials. I own my talk show. My talk show you can see on Apple for free. And so go rediscover this stuff. Rediscover my mom and dad who were hilarious on my reality

Well, Kathy, I got to be honest. I loved you in Suddenly Susan. I used to watch that show. Come on, people. Come on. I mean, I go back to a show where I was the wisecracking secretary to Brooke Shields. I mean, by the way, Gavin, let's be honest. I mean, look, shout out to Brooke Shields. Come on. Inappropriate movie. Inappropriate. Totally inappropriate. Couldn't make it out. Unbelievable. She was exploited. I know.

but there's a great doc about her called Pretty Baby. Anyway, so yes, look at the old stuff. Come see the new tour. I love doing what I do. I think I have another book in me. I've written two books. One went to number one, one went to 15 and

Sky's the limit. Don't be afraid of me, folks. But Kathy, I'll be honest with you. There is no dinner party without Marshawn Lynch at your table. He is the best dinner date you'll ever have. In fact, he brought my wife to the White House Christmas party last year. So he is a great date. Okay, first of all, he didn't tell you about our history.

What's it? Oh, Jesus. Here we go. What is it? I co-hosted a charity gig with Danny DeVito, and he won some ring for some contest in football and was on some team. Super Bowl ring, Gabby. Okay. I guess I'll just take you out. And the team was...

Seattle, Seattle. It's fine. Okay. So all the straights were very excited to see him. You know how you guys get, you straights get very excited around athletes. And so he's, he was very shy at the time and known for not talking. Well, when you're hosting a charity show, sometimes they're like, Hey, the band isn't ready. You got to go out stretch.

So I ran into the audience and I was like, where's that guy? What's his name? Marshawn Lynch. They pointed him out. I went up to him. I had the microphone. I busted his balls so hard. I made him spoon me.

I said, I'm not leaving until you spoon me and I want to be the little spoon. Now, he was a man of few words. I'm just going to be honest. It was hard work getting him to open up. But I, Kathy Griffin, had Marshawn Lynch spooned

spooned me and it was tender and loving and sensitive not beast mode he was in horrible mode oh look at that the sensitive I have been spooned by a Marshawn Lynch I love it I love it have you? I've been body slammed by him but not spooned correct okay well there you go it's one of my nine lives your nine lives

No, but Kathy, this has been a treat. I mean, honestly, I've been a huge fan of yours and I love what you're all about. And literally, you're a grinder. You're a battler. You've overcome so many things. You're funny as hell. And trust me, I'll never leave your life, Kathy. I'm here. I don't walk away. I love it. I don't walk away, Kathy. I'm all in, okay? I'm going to make you spoon me.

I'm going to make you spoon me. I'm a good spooner too. My wife, yes. All good. All good. No, just mad respect, resilience. And what an example to so many people that are struggling out there that are suffering. And you lost your mom on top of everything else we said. Oh, I miss her. I know.

Right? That alone can set people back. But the fact that you haven't been set back by any of this and is tough and tenacious and funny and lovable as you've ever been says a lot about you. And so grateful to be able to share you a little bit with our audience. And I hope everybody out there listening, you're here in the Masonic. You're down in LA. You got your New Year's show. Check out Kathy Griffin. Hi, Mazizi.

I would be on The Bachelorette. Thank you.