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cover of episode The GA Indictment Read by Ali Velshi: Part 2

The GA Indictment Read by Ali Velshi: Part 2

2023/8/16
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Prosecuting Donald Trump

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本集播客详细解读了乔治亚州对唐纳德·特朗普及其18名盟友的41项指控,涵盖了共谋选举欺诈、影响证人、冒充公职人员和伪证等罪名。检方指控他们试图推翻2020年乔治亚州总统选举结果。这些指控基于大量证据,包括证词、文件和视频记录,详细描述了被告如何策划和实施一系列行动来干预选举进程。例如,指控包括向州议员施压以非法任命选举人,散布关于选举舞弊的虚假信息,以及伪造选举文件。特朗普及其盟友否认所有指控,并声称自己将被证明无罪。然而,检方提供的证据表明,他们采取了协调一致的行动来试图推翻选举结果,这构成了严重的犯罪行为。本集播客旨在提供对这些指控的全面概述,让听众能够自行判断这些指控的严重性和证据的充分性。

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Ali Velshi introduces the second part of the Georgia indictment, detailing the 41 charges against Trump and his allies, including conspiracy to commit election fraud and impersonating a public officer.

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Hello and welcome to another special episode of Prosecuting Donald Trump. I'm Ali Velshi. Yesterday, I read you the first 71 pages of the Georgia indictment handed down to the former president and 18 of his allies. And that was just count one felony racketeering in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election there.

Today, we'll cover the rest of the 41 charges, including conspiracy to commit election fraud, influencing witnesses, impersonating a public officer, and perjury. Fulton County DA Fannie Willis lays it all out over the next 26 pages.

and tells quite the story. Trump denies any wrongdoing and spent much of yesterday attacking Willis and claiming that he will be exonerated. But as I did yesterday and have done with previous indictments, I'll read you every word of the remaining document so you have all the information. So here we go with part two of the Georgia indictment.

Fulton Superior Court Indictment, Count 2 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Rudolph William Lewis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman, J.

Jenna Lynn Ellis, and Ray Stalling Smith III with the offense of solicitation of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA section 16-4-7 and 16-10-1.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on the third day of December 2020,

unlawfully solicited, requested, and importuned certain public officers then serving as elected members of the Georgia Senate and present at a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting, including unindicted co-conspirator Individual 8, whose identity is known to the grand jury, Senators Lee Anderson, Brandon Beach, Matt Brass,

Greg Dolezal, Steve Gooch, Tyler Harper, Bill Heath, Jen Jordan, John F. Kennedy, William Ligon, Elena Parent, Michael Rett,

Cardin Summers, and Blake Tillery to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA section 16-10-1, by unlawfully appointing presidential electors from the state of Georgia in willful and intentional violation of the terms of the oath of said persons as prescribed by law."

with intent that said persons engage in said conduct, said date being a material element of the offense, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof. Count 3 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Rudolph William Lewis Giuliani with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20, for the said accused in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia...

on or about the third day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to members of the Georgia Senate present at a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting.

One, that at least 96,600 mail-in ballots were counted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia, despite there being no record of those ballots having been returned to a county elections office.

Two, that a Dominion voting systems machine used in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Antrim County, Michigan, mistakenly recorded 6,000 votes for Joseph R. Biden when the votes were actually cast for Donald Trump.

Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof.

Count 4 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Ray Stallings Smith III with the offense of false statements and writings OCGA section 16-10-20 for the said accused in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on or about the third day of December 2020 knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one

one of the following false statements and representations to members of the Georgia Senate present at a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting. One, that 2,506 felons voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

Two, that 66,248 underage people illegally registered to vote before their 17th birthday prior to the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Three, that at least 2,423 people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia who were not listed as registered to vote.

Four, that 1,043 people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia who had illegally registered to vote using a post office box.

Five, that 10,315 or more dead people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Six, that Fulton County election workers at State Farm Arena ordered poll watchers and members of the media to leave the tabulation area on the night of November 3, 2020 and continue to operate after ordering everyone to leave.

Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count five of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Donald John Trump with the offense of solicitation of violation of oath by public officer.

OCGA Sections 16-4-7 and 16-10-1. For the said accused, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on or about the 7th day of December 2020,

unlawfully solicited, requested, and importuned Speaker of the Georgia House of Representatives David Ralston, a public officer, to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA Section 16-10-1.

by calling for a special session of the Georgia General Assembly for the purpose of unlawfully appointing presidential electors from the state of Georgia in willful and intentional violation of the terms of the oath of said person as prescribed by law with intent that said person engage in said conduct contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof. Count six of 41. And

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Rudolph William Lewis Giuliani and Ray Stalling Smith III with the offense of solicitation of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA section 16-4-7 and 16-10-1,

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on the 10th day of December 2020, unlawfully solicited, requested, and importuned certain public officers then serving as elected members of the Georgia House of Representatives in

and present at a House Governmental Affairs Committee meeting, including Representatives Shaw Blackmun, John Burns, Barry Fleming, Todd Jones, Bee Nguyen, Mary Margaret Oliver, Alan Powell, Renita Shannon, Robert Trammell,

Scott Turner, and Bruce Williamson to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of violation of oath by public officer OCGA Section 16-10-1 by unlawfully appointing presidential electors from the state of Georgia in willful and intentional violation of the terms of the oath of said persons as prescribed by law."

with intent that said persons engage in said conduct, said date being a material element of the offense, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count seven of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Rudolph William Lewis Giuliani with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20,

For the said accused in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the 10th day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to members of the Georgia House of Representatives present at a House Governmental Affairs Committee meeting.

One, that it is quite clear from the State Farm Arena video from November 3, 2020, that Fulton County election workers were stealing votes and that Georgia officials were covering up a crime in plain sight.

Two, that at State Farm Arena on November 3, 2020, Democratic officials, quote, got rid of all the reporters, all the observers, anyone that couldn't be trusted, end quote, used the excuse of a water main break, cleared out the voting area, and then, quote, went about their dirty, crooked business, end quote.

Three, that between 12,000 and 24,000 ballots were illegally counted by Fulton County election workers at State Farm Arena on November 3, 2020. Four, that in Michigan, there were 700,000 more ballots counted than were sent out to voters in the November 3, 2020 presidential election, which was accounted for by quadruple counting ballots. Five,

Five, that Ruby Freeman, Shea Moss, and an unidentified man were, quote, quite obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine, end quote, at State Farm Arena to be used to, quote, infiltrate the crooked Dominion voting machines, end quote.

Six, that 96,600 mail-in ballots were counted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia, despite there being no record of those ballots having been returned to a county elections office.

Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 8 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse David James Schaefer, Sean Micah Tresher Still, and Kathleen Alston Latham with the offense of impersonating a public officer, OCGA section 16-10-23."

For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on or about the 14th day of December 2020 unlawfully falsely held themselves out as the duly elected and qualified presidential electors from the state of Georgia."

public officers with intent to mislead the president of the United States Senate, the archivist of the United States, the Georgia secretary of state, and the chief judge of the United States district court for the Northern district of Georgia into believing that they actually were such officers by placing in the United States mail to said persons, a document titled quote, certificate of the votes of the 2020 electors from Georgia and quote,

contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof. Count nine of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Donald John Trump, Rudolph William Louis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman, Kenneth John Cheesebro, Ray Stallings Smith III,

Robert David Cheely, and Michael A. Roman with the offense of conspiracy to commit impersonating a public officer, OCGA, sections 16-4-8 and 16-10-23.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with indicted and unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on and between the 6th day of December 2020 and the 14th day of December 2020, unlawfully conspired to cause certain individuals to

falsely hold themselves out as the duly elected and qualified presidential electors from the state of Georgia, public officers, with intent to mislead the President of the United States Senate, the Archivist of the United States, the Georgia Secretary of State, and the Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia into believing that they actually were such officers.

And the defendants named in count eight, acting as co-conspirators, as described above and incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein, falsely held themselves out as said public officers by placing in the United States mail to said persons a document titled, quote, Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia, end quote, in Fulton County, Georgia, which was an overt act

to effect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said State, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count ten of forty-one.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse David James Schaefer, Sean Micah Tresher Still, and Kathleen Alston Latham with the offense of forgery in the first degree, OCGA Section 16-9-1B.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on or about the 14th day of December 2020—

unlawfully and with the intent to defraud, knowingly made a document titled, quote, Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia, end quote, a writing other than a check in such manner that the writing as made,

Count 11 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump, Rudolph William Louis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman, Kenneth John Cheeseborough, Ray Stallings Smith III, Robert David Cheely, and Michael A. Roman with the offense of conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree,

OCGA section 16-4-8 and 16-9-1B. For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with indicted and unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on and between the 6th day of December 2020 and the 14th day of December 2020,

unlawfully conspired with the intent to defraud to knowingly make a document titled, quote, certificate of the votes of the 2020 electors from Georgia, end quote. A writing other than a check in such manner that the writing as made purports to have been made by authority of the duly elected and qualified presidential electors from the state of Georgia who did not give such authority."

and to utter and deliver said document to the Archivist of the United States. And the defendants named in count ten, acting as co-conspirators, as described above and incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein, made said document in Fulton County, Georgia, and uttered and delivered said document to the Archivist of the United States in Fulton County, Georgia, which were overt acts to effect the object of the conspiracy,

contrary to the laws of said State, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

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Count 12 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse David James Schaefer, Sean Micah Tresher Still, and Kathleen Alston Latham with the offense of false statements and writings,

OCGA Section 16-10-20. For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia,

On or about the 14th day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made and used a false document titled, quote, Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia, end quote, with knowledge that said document contained the false statement, quote,

We, the undersigned, being the duly elected and qualified electors for President and Vice President of the United States of America from the State of Georgia, do hereby certify the following, end quote, said document being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Office of the Governor of Georgia, Departments and Agencies of State Government, contrary to the laws of said State, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 13 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Donald John Trump, Rudolph William Louis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman, Kenneth John Cheeseborough, Ray Stalling Smith III,

Robert David Cheely, and Michael A. Roman with the offense of conspiracy to commit false statements and writings, OCGA sections 16-4-8 and 16-10-20, for the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with indicted and unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia,

on and between the 6th day of December 2020 and the 14th day of December 2020, unlawfully conspired to knowingly and willfully make and use a false document titled, quote, Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia, end quote.

with knowledge that said document contained the false statement, quote, we the undersigned, being the duly elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the United States of America from the state of Georgia, do hereby certify the following, end quote, said document being within the jurisdiction of the office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the office of the governor of Georgia, departments and agencies of state government.

And the defendants named in count twelve, acting as co-conspirators, as described above and incorporated by reference, as if fully set forth herein, made and used said document in Fulton County, Georgia, which were overt acts to effect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count fourteen of forty-one.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse David James Schaefer, Sean Micah Tresher Still, and Kathleen Alston Latham with the offense of criminal attempt to commit filing false documents.

OCGA Sections 16-4-1 and 16-10-20.1b1 for the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the 14th day of December 2020,

unlawfully with intent to commit the crime of filing false documents, OCGA section 16-10-20.1b1,

Placed in the United States mail, a document titled, quote, Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia, end quote, addressed to Chief Judge, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Georgia, 2188 Richard D. Russell Federal Office Building and U.S. Courthouse, 75 Ted Turner Drive, Southwest Atlanta, 30303.

a substantial step toward the commission of filing false documents, OCGA Section 16-10-20.1b1, with intent to knowingly file, enter, and record said document in a court of the United States.

having reason to know that said document contained the materially false statement, quote, we the undersigned, being the duly elected and qualified electors for President and Vice President of the United States of America from the state of Georgia, do hereby certify the following, end quote, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof.

Count 15 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump, Rudolph William Louis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman,

Kenneth John Cheesebro, Ray Stalling Smith III, Robert David Cheely, and Michael A. Roman, with the offense of conspiracy to commit filing false documents OCGA Sections 16-4-8 and 16-10-20.1b1

For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with indicted and unindicted co-conspirators in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on and between the 6th day of December 2020 and the 14th day of December 2020, unlawfully conspired to knowingly file charges.

enter and record a document titled, quote, Certificate of the Votes of the 2020 Electors from Georgia, end quote. In a court of the United States, having reason to know that said document contained the materially false statement, quote, we the undersigned, being the duly elected and qualified electors for President and Vice President of the United States of America from the state of Georgia, do hereby certify the following, end quote.

And the defendants named in count 14, acting as co-conspirators as described above and incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein, placed in the United States mail said document addressed to Chief Judge...

U.S. District Court, Northern District of Georgia, 2188 Richard D. Russell Federal Office Building and U.S. Courthouse, 75 Ted Turner Drive, Southwest Atlanta, Georgia, 30303 in Fulton County, Georgia, which was an overt act to affect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof.

Count 16 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse David James Schaefer and Sean Micah Tresher Still with the offense of forgery in the first degree, OCGA section 16-9-1B.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on or about the 14th day of December 2020,

unlawfully and with the intent to defraud, knowingly made a document titled, quote, re-notice of filing of electoral college vacancy, end quote, a writing other than a check in such manner that the writing as made purports to have been made by authority of the duly elected and qualified presidential electors from the state of Georgia, who did not give such authority or

Count 17 of 41. Donald John Trump.

Rudolph William Louis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman, Kenneth John Cheeseborough, Ray Stalling Smith III, Robert David Cheely, and Michael A. Roman with the offense of conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree, OCGA Sections 16-4-8 and 16-9-1B.

End quote.

a writing other than a check in such manner that the writing as made purports to have been made by the authority of the duly elected and qualified presidential electors from the state of Georgia, who did not give such authority, and to utter and deliver said document to the Archivist of the United States and the Office of the Governor of Georgia."

And the defendants named in count 16, acting as co-conspirators, as described above and incorporated by reference, as if fully set forth herein, made said document in Fulton County, Georgia, and uttered and delivered said document to the Archivist of the United States and the Office of the Governor of Georgia in Fulton County, Georgia, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order,

peace, and dignity thereof. Count 18 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse David James Schaefer and Sean Micah Tresher Still with the offense of false statements and writings OCGA section 16-10-20. For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime is

and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on or about the 14th day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made and used a false document titled, quote, re, notice of filing of electoral college vacancy, end quote.

with knowledge that said document contained the false statements that David James Schaefer was chairman of the 2020 Georgia Electoral College meeting and Shawn Micah Tresher Still was secretary of the 2020 Georgia Electoral College meeting.

said document being within the jurisdiction of the office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the office of the Governor of Georgia, departments and agencies of state government, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace and dignity thereof.

Count 19 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump, Rudolph William Louis Giuliani, John Charles Eastman, Kenneth John Cheesebrough, Ray Stalling Smith III,

Robert David Cheely and Michael A. Roman with the offense of conspiracy to commit false statements and writings, OCGA sections 16-4-8 and 16-10-20.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with indicted and unindicted co-conspirators, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on and between the 6th day of December 2020 and the 14th day of December 2020, unlawfully conspired to knowingly and willfully make and use a false document titled, quote, Re-Notice of Filing of Electoral College Vacancy, end quote,

with knowledge that said document contained the false statements that David James Schaefer was chairman of the 2020 Georgia Electoral College meeting and Sean Micah Tresher Still was secretary of the 2020 Georgia Electoral College meeting, said document being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Office of the Governor of Georgia, Departments and Agencies of State Government.

And the defendants named in count 18, acting as co-conspirators as described above and incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein, made and used said document in Fulton County, Georgia, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 20 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Stephen Cliffguard Lee with the offense of criminal attempt to commit influencing witnesses, OCGA Sections 16-4-1 and 16-10-93-B1A.

For the said accused in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on the 14th day of December 2020, unlawfully, with intent to commit the crime of influencing witnesses, OCGA Section 16-10-93B1A,

traveled to the home of Ruby Freeman, a Fulton County, Georgia, election worker, and spoke to her neighbor, a substantial step toward the commission of influencing witnesses, OCGA section 16-10-93-10.

B-1A, with intent to knowingly engage in misleading conduct toward Ruby Freeman by purporting to offer her help, and with intent to influence her testimony in an official proceeding in Fulton County, Georgia, concerning events at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia, said date being a material element of the offense, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 21 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Stephen Cliffguard Lee with the offense of criminal attempt to commit influencing witnesses, OCGA Sections 16-4-1 and 16-10-93B1A.

for the said accused in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on the 15th day of December 2020, unlawfully, with intent to commit the crime of influencing witnesses, OCGA Section 16-10-93-B1A, traveled to the home of Ruby Freeman, a Fulton County, Georgia, election worker, and knocked on her door.

a substantial step toward the Commission of Influencing Witnesses, OCGA Section 16-10-93-B1A, with intent to knowingly engage in misleading conduct toward Ruby Freeman by purporting to offer her help and with intent to influence her testimony in an official proceeding in Fulton County, Georgia, concerning events at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia."

Count 22 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Jeffrey Bossert Clark with the offense of criminal attempt to commit false statements and writings, OCGA Sections 16-4-1 and 16-10-20, for the said accused...

Individually and as a person concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on and between the 28th day of December 2020 and the second day of January 2021,

"...unlawfully, with the intent to commit the crime of false statements and writings, OCGA Section 16-10-20, knowingly and willfully made a false writing and document, knowing the same to contain the false statement that the United States Department of Justice had, quote, identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states, including the state of Georgia, end quote."

said statement being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies. And on or about the 28th day of December 2020, the said accused sent an email to acting United States Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, an

Acting United States Deputy Attorney General Richard Donahue and requested authorization to send said false writing and document to Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, Speaker of the Georgia House of Representatives David Ralston, and President Pro Tempore of the Georgia Senate Butch Miller.

And on or about the second day of January 2021, the said accused met with the acting United States Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and acting United States Deputy Attorney General Richard Donahue and requested authorization to send said false writing and document to Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, Speaker of the Georgia House of Representatives David Ralston, and President Pro Tempore of the Georgia Senate Butch Miller.

and said acts constituted substantial steps toward the commission of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20, and said conduct committed outside the state of Georgia constituted an attempt to commit a crime within the state of Georgia pursuant to OCGA section 17-2-1b2, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

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Count 23 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Rudolph William Lewis Giuliani, Ray Stalling Smith III, and Robert David Cheely with the offense of solicitation of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA Sections 16-4-7 and 16-10-1,

For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and state of Georgia on the 30th day of December, 2020 unlawfully solicited, requested and importuned certain public officers, then serving as elected members of the Georgia Senate and present at a Senate judiciary subcommittee meeting in

including unindicted co-conspirator Individual 8, whose identity is known to the grand jury, Senators Brandon Beach, Bill Heath, William Ligon, Michael Rett, and Blake Tillery, to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA Section 16-10-1."

by unlawfully appointing presidential electors from the state of Georgia in willful and intentional violation of the terms of the oath of said persons as prescribed by law, with intent that said persons engage in said conduct, said date being a material element of the offense, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 24 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Rudolph William Lewis Giuliani with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20, for the said accused in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on or

or about the 30th day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to members of the Georgia Senate present at a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting. One, that Fulton County election workers fraudulently counted certain ballots as many as five times at State Farm Arena on November 3, 2020.

Two, that 2,560 felons voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Three, that 10,315 dead people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 25 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Ray Stalling Smith III with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA Section 16-10-20.

For the said accused in the county of Fulton and the state of Georgia on or about the 30th day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to members of the Georgia Senate present at a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting.

One, that Georgia Secretary of State General Counsel Ryan Germany stated that his office had sent letters to 8,000 people who voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election and told them not to vote in the January 5, 2021 runoff election.

Two, that the Georgia secretary of state admitted, quote, that they had a 90 percent accuracy rate, end quote, in the November 3, 2020 presidential election, and that, quote, there's still a 10 percent margin that's not accurate, end quote.

Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 26 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Robert David Cheely with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20.

For the said accused in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia, on or about the 30th day of December 2020, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to members of the Georgia Senate present at a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting.

One, that poll watchers and media at State Farm Arena were told late in the evening of November 3, 2020, that the vote count was being suspended until the next morning and to go home because of a, quote, major water main break, end quote.

Two, that Fulton County election workers at State Farm Arena voted the same ballots, quote, over and over again, end quote, on November 3, 2020. Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 27 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump and John Charles Eastman with the offense of filing false documents, OCGA section 16-10-20.1b1.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators, in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia, on or about the 31st day of December 2020, knowingly and unlawfully filed a document titled, quote, Verified Complaint for Emergency Injunctive and Declaratory Relief, end quote, in the matter of Trump v. Kemp, Case 120-CV-20.

05-310-MHC in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia, a court of the United States, having reason to know that said document contained at least one of the following materially false statements. One, that, quote, as many as 2,506 felons with an uncompleted sentence, end quote, voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

Two, that, quote, at least 66,247 underage, end quote, people voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Three, that, quote, at least 2,423 individuals, end quote, voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia, quote, who were not listed in the state's records as having been registered to vote, end quote.

Four, that, quote, at least 1,043 individuals, end quote, voted illegally in the November 3, 2020 presidential election, quote, who had illegally registered to vote using a post office box as their habitation, end quote. Five, that, quote, as many as 10,315 or more, end quote, dead people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia, end quote.

Six, that, quote, deliberate misinformation was used to instruct Republican poll watchers and members of the press to leave the premises for the night at approximately 10 p.m. on November 3, 2020, end quote, at State Farm Arena in Fulton County, Georgia. Contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 28 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia do charge and accuse Donald John Trump and Mark Randall Meadows with the offense of solicitation of violation of oath by public officer OCGA sections 16-4-7 and 16-10-1.

for the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the second day of January 2021, unlawfully solicited, requested, and importuned Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a public officer, to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of

a violation of oath by public officer, OCGA section 16-10-1, by unlawfully altering, unlawfully adjusting, and otherwise unlawfully influencing the certified returns for presidential electors for the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

in willful and intentional violation of the terms of the oath of said person as prescribed by law, with intent that said person engage in said conduct contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 29 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20-20,

For the said accused in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the second day of January 2021, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, Georgia Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs, and Georgia Secretary of State General Counsel Ryan Germany.

One, that anywhere from 250,000 to 300,000 ballots were dropped mysteriously into the rolls in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Two, that thousands of people attempted to vote in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia and were told that they could not because a ballot had already been cast in their name.

Three, that 4,502 people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia who were not on the voter registration list. Four, that 904 people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia who were registered at an address that was a post office box. Five, that Ruby Freeman was a professional vote scammer and a known political operative.

Six, that Ruby Freeman, her daughter and others were responsible for fraudulently awarding at least 18,000 ballots to Joseph R. Biden at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

Seven, that close to 5,000 dead people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Eight, that 139% of people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Detroit. Nine, that 200,000 more votes were recorded than the number of people who voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Pennsylvania.

10. That thousands of dead people voted in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Michigan. 11. That Ruby Freeman stuffed the ballot boxes. 12. That hundreds of thousands of ballots had been, quote, dumped, end quote, into Fulton County and another county adjacent to Fulton County in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

13, that he won the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia by 400,000 votes. Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 30 of 41.

OCGA Sections 16-4-8 and 16-4-7 and 16-10-20 for the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the fourth day of January 2021,

"...unlawfully conspired to solicit, request, and importune Ruby Freeman, a Fulton County, Georgia, election worker, to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of false statements and writings, OCGA Section 16-10-20, by knowingly and willfully making a false statement and representation concerning events at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia."

Said statement and representation being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, with the intent that said person engage in said conduct.

and Trevian C. Cootey traveled to Fulton County, Georgia, and placed a telephone call to Ruby Freeman while in Fulton County, Georgia, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 31 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Stephen Cliffguard Lee, Harrison William Prescott Floyd, and Trevian C. Coote with the offense of influencing witnesses, OCGA section 16-10-93B1A,

For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on or about the fourth day of January 2021, knowingly and unlawfully engaged in misleading conduct toward Ruby Freeman, a Fulton County, Georgia, election worker.

by stating that she needed protection and by purporting to offer her help with intent to influence her testimony in an official proceeding in Fulton County, Georgia, concerning events at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020 presidential election in Georgia, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 32 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Sidney Catherine Powell, Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton with the offense of conspiracy to commit election fraud, OCGA Sections 21-2-603 and 21-2-566,

And

and Sidney Catherine Powell entered into a contract with Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, delivered a payment to Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, and caused employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC to travel from Fulton County, Georgia to Coffey County, Georgia, for the purpose of willfully tampering with said electronic ballot markers and tabulating machines.

which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy.

And Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton aided, abetted, and encouraged employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC in willfully tampering with electronic ballot markers and tabulating machines while inside the Coffey County Elections and Registration Office in Coffey County, Georgia, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state,

Count 33 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Sidney Catherine Powell, Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton with the offense of conspiracy to commit election fraud.

OCGA Sections 21-2-603 and 21-2-574 for the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators individually

in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on and between the first day of December 2020 and the seventh day of January 2021, unlawfully conspired and agreed to cause certain members of the conspiracy who were not officers charged by law with the care of ballots

and were not persons entrusted by any such officer with the care of ballots for a purpose required by law to possess official ballots outside of the polling place in the state of Georgia.

and Sidney Catherine Powell entered into a contract with Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, delivered a payment to Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, and caused employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC to travel from Fulton County, Georgia to Coffey County, Georgia, for the purpose of causing certain members of the conspiracy to

who were not officers charged by law with the care of ballots and who were not persons entrusted by any such officer with the care of ballots for a purpose required by law to possess official ballots outside of the polling place, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy.

And Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton aided, abetted, and encouraged employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC in accessing election equipment while inside the Coffey County Elections and Registration Office in Coffey County, Georgia, for the purpose of causing certain members of the conspiracy, who are not in the office, to be arrested.

who were not officers charged by law with the care of ballots and who were not persons entrusted by any such officer with the care of ballots for a purpose required by law to possess official ballots outside of the polling place, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof."

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Count 34 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Sidney Catherine Powell, Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton with the offense of conspiracy to commit computer theft, OCGA Sections 16-4-8 and 16-9-93A.

For the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and the state of Georgia on and between the first day of December 2020 and the seventh day of January 2021,

unlawfully conspired to use a computer with knowledge that such use was without authority and with the intention of taking and appropriating information, data, and software, the property of Dominion Voting Systems Corporation.

and Sidney Catherine Powell entered into a contract with Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, delivered a payment to Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, and caused employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC to travel from Fulton County, Georgia to Coffey County, Georgia, for the purpose of using a computer with knowledge

that such use was without authority and with the intention of taking and appropriating information, data, and software, the property of Dominion Voting Systems Corporation, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy.

And Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton aided, abetted, and encouraged employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC in using a computer with knowledge that such use was without authority and

and with the intention of taking and appropriating information, data, and software, the property of Dominion Voting Systems Corporation, while inside the Coffey County Elections and Registration Office in Coffey County, Georgia, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 35 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Sidney Catherine Powell, Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton with the offense of conspiracy to commit computer trespass, OCGA Sections 16-4-8 and 16-9-93B.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on and between the first day of December 2020 and the seventh day of January 2021, unlawfully conspired to use a computer with knowledge that such use was without authority."

and with the intention of removing voter data and Dominion Voting Systems Corporation data from said computer. And Sydney Catherine Powell entered into a contract with Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, delivered a payment to Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, and caused employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC to travel from Fulton County, Georgia to Coffey County, Georgia,

for the purpose of using a computer with knowledge that such use was without authority and with the intention of removing voter data and Dominion Voting Systems Corporation data from said computer, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy.

And Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton aided, abetted, and encouraged employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC in using a computer with knowledge that such use was without authority and with the intention of removing voter data from the data.

Count 36 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Sidney Catherine Powell, Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton with the offense of conspiracy to commit computer invasion of privacy, OCGA Sections 16-4-8 and 16-9-93C.

For the said accused, individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime, and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on and between the first day of December 2020 and the seventh day of January 2021, unlawfully conspired to use a computer with the intention of examining personal voter data with knowledge that such examination was without authority."

And Sidney Catherine Powell entered into a contract with Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, delivered a payment to Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, and caused employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC to travel from Fulton County, Georgia to Coffey County, Georgia, for the purpose of using a computer with the intention of examining personal voter data with knowledge provided

that such examination was without authority which were overt acts to effect the object of the conspiracy.

And Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton aided, abetted, and encouraged employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC in using a computer with the intention of examining personal voter data with knowledge that such examination was without authority while inside the Coffey County Elections and Registration Office in Coffey County, Georgia, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy.

Contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 37 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Sidney Catherine Powell, Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton with the offense of conspiracy to defraud the state,

OCGA Section 16-10-21 for the said accused individually and as persons concerned in the commission of a crime and together with unindicted co-conspirators in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on and between the first day of December 2020 and the seventh day of January 2021, unlawfully conspired and agreed to commit theft

of voter data, property which was under the control of Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a state officer in his official capacity.

And Sidney Catherine Powell entered into a contract with Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, delivered a payment to Sullivan Strickler LLC in Fulton County, Georgia, and caused employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC to travel from Fulton County, Georgia to Coffey County, Georgia, for the purpose of committing theft of voter data property, which was under the control of the Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, a state officer, who

in his official capacity, which were overt acts to affect the object of the conspiracy. And Kathleen Alston Latham, Scott Graham Hall, and Misty Hampton aided, abetted, and encouraged employees of Sullivan Strickler LLC in accessing election equipment while inside the Coffey County Elections and Registration Office in Douglas, Georgia, for the purpose of committing theft of voter data.

Count 38 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump with the offense of solicitation of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA Sections 16-4-7 and 16-10-1, for the said accused in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the 17th day of September 2021—

unlawfully solicited, requested, and importuned Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a public officer, to engage in conduct constituting the felony offense of violation of oath by public officer, OCGA Section 16-10-1.

by unlawfully, quote, decertifying the election or whatever the correct legal remedy is and announce the true winner, end quote, in willful and intentional violation of the terms of the oath of said person as prescribed by law, with intent that said person engage in said conduct contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 39 of 41. And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Donald John Trump with the offense of false statements and writings, OCGA section 16-10-20, for the said accused in the county of Fulton and state of Georgia on or about the 17th day of September 2021, knowingly, willfully, and

unlawfully made the following false statement and representation to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

One, quote, as stated to you previously, the number of false and or irregular votes is far greater than needed to change the Georgia election result, end quote. Said statement being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, and county and city law enforcement agencies, contrary to the laws of the state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof.

Count 40 of 41.

on or about the 25th day of April 2022, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations in the presence of Fulton County District Attorney's Office investigators.

One, that he, quote, attended and convened, end quote, the December 14, 2020 meeting of Trump presidential elector nominees in Fulton County, Georgia, but he did not, quote, call each of the individual members and notify them of the meeting or make any of the other preparations necessary for the meeting, end quote.

Two, that a court reporter was not present at the December 14, 2020 meeting of Trump presidential elector nominees in Fulton County, Georgia. Said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Fulton County District Attorney's Office, a department and agency of the government of a county of this state, contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Count 41 of 41.

And the grand jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse Robert David Cheely with the offense of perjury, OCGA section 16-10-70A.

For the said accused in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia on or about the 15th day of September 2022, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements before the Fulton County Special Purpose Grand Jury, a judicial proceeding after having been administered a lawful oath.

1. That he was unaware of the December 14, 2020 meeting of Trump presidential elector nominees in Fulton County, Georgia until after the meeting had already taken place. 2. That he had no substantive conversations with anyone concerning the December 14, 2020 meeting of Trump presidential elector nominees in Fulton County, Georgia until after the meeting had already taken place.

Three, that he never suggested to anyone that the Trump presidential elector nominees in Georgia should meet on December 14, 2020.

Four, that the only communication he had with John Eastman concerning the November 3, 2020 presidential election was for the purpose of connecting Eastman to Georgia Senator Brandon Beach, an unindicted co-conspirator Individual 8 whose identity is known to the grand jury for possible legal representation.

Five, that he never worked to connect John Eastman with any Georgia legislators other than Georgia Senator Brandon Beach and unindicted co-conspirator Individual 8, whose identity is known to the grand jury.

Said statements being material to the accused's own involvement in the December 14, 2020 meeting of Trump presidential elector nominees in Fulton County, Georgia, and to the accused's communications with others involved in said meeting, the issues in question contrary to the laws of said state, the good order, peace, and dignity thereof. Fannie T. Willis, District Attorney.

Thanks so much for listening. You can catch Velshi every weekend at 10 a.m. Eastern on MSNBC. I'll also be releasing a new podcast on August 24th, The Velshi Band Book Club. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts.

The senior producer for Prosecuting Donald Trump is Alicia Conley. Ivy Green is a segment producer. Our technical director is Bryson Barnes. Katherine Anderson is an audio engineer. Janmaris Perez is the associate producer. Aisha Turner is the executive producer for MSNBC Audio. And Rebecca Cutler is the senior vice president for content strategy at MSNBC.

Hi everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, Why Is This Happening, author and philosopher Daniel Chandler on the roots of a just society. I think that those genuinely big fundamental questions about whether liberal democracy will survive, what the shape of our society should be, feel like they're genuinely back on the agenda. I think it feels like we're at a real, you know, an inflection point or a turning point in the history of liberal democracy. That's this week on Why Is This Happening. Search for Why Is This Happening wherever you're listening right now and follow.