How It Feels To Always Be Right
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Well, the woman who's always right just put a stake in a statement. This is Queens of the Court. What's up everybody? It's your favorite duo. Welcome to another episode of Queens of the Court, an Odyssey original podcast produced in partnership with the WNBA.

I'm your girl, Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Jordan Robinson. And court. And court. Is in session. Is in session. Woo! Order in the court. A lot of things going down this week. Oh, lots. Per usual. But, um, do you mind if I kick it off with a little listener email? No, let's do it. Okay. I like listener emails. Me too. Okay. Dear Miss Swoops.

- How does it feel to always be right? I have been listening to you say, "Bring Odyssey Sims back." And in her first game, she drops 18 points and played like her life was on the line. That sounds good. They beat the Lynx, which New York couldn't do. I ask you again, ma'am, how does it feel?

Love the show. Keep making magic. Sabrina. Shout out to you, Sabrina. How do you feel, Cheryl? You were right. Odyssey is back. Dallas made the right move. Well, first of all, before I answer that question, Sabrina, can you tell my husband that I'm always right? It would be so much easier. Right? Life would be easier. Listen, I'm just happy that Odyssey is back in the league.

Finally, finally, here's the crazy thing, Jordan, and Sabrina has been listening. So yes, she knows I have been Odyssey, Odyssey, Odyssey, Odyssey every episode. But there were so many teams that I can think of even right now that could have used an Odyssey Sims. Dallas finally said, All right,

We hear you. They really didn't say that, but I was just happy that they brought her back. And when I, I was fortunate enough, lucky enough that I got to call that game. And when I watched her play, like she did not look like she has skipped a beat. She was doing Odyssey Sims things that she's always done. You know, the very beginning, first half really was,

I could tell she was just trying to find her way, right? Like, I got Arike out here. I got Tosh Howard out here. Like, let me make sure I'm getting the rock to them. So she wasn't looking to be that aggressive as far as scoring the basketball. It was just her doing other things, which she does very well. But the second half when they just, they couldn't score. Like, Arike finally started hitting shots, but Odyssey just didn't.

She, I don't know. She was just playing basketball. And I, again, I'm just, it baffles me that, that she was even out of the league. Right. Like I get it. Not enough roster spots, not enough teams. We talk about this all the time, but even in saying that there are some players that,

that are just better than others and should be on a roster somewhere. And Odyssey Sims is one of those players. So, so happy to see her back in the league. And last thing I'll say, remove that hardship contract and just sign her. Just sign her. I know because, you know,

know and that's the thing too she was with this team last year so yes i think that's also a huge part of it that she does kind of know the system and know how to play with arique um you know they ended an 11 game

winless streak. It took 11 games lost in a row for you to sign Odyssey Sims, but they needed her presence at the guard position. And after the game, Arike Gumbawale actually spoke about Odyssey's immediate impact. Here's what she had to say. I love this.

Yeah, I think it helps a ton that you know, we know her. She obviously finished the season with us, played a lot with us last year. So I know how she plays. She knows how I play. She knows where I like to be in. She has, you know, that same mentality as me. She wants to get to the basket. She wants to drive. She wants to find open players. So I love playing off of her and we communicate a lot when we're on the court and we just keep building chemistry. And she also came to every home game this year. She supported us even though she wasn't on a team. So I think that's just a testament to

know who she is as a person. She's not bitter even if we didn't pick her up. She was ready for any team to pick her up, but she still came and supported us every game and we saw her every game. And so it really didn't feel like it's like a newcomer. It's just somebody that's been out, like the injuries been out and now they're back with the team. So super happy we picked her up and we're just gonna keep this going.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, and like it would, it would be great coming from anyone, but when it's coming from the best player on the team, it means something different. Yeah. It does a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. And, and she's right to say she showed up at every home game that she could make. She was here watching, cheering for her. She wasn't bitter. I would be bitter, but, um,

No, no, like, but you know what? I'm sure she was sitting there though. Like, so I can still help y'all. I can still help y'all. Here's what I took from this. This is a perfect like playbook for people who may be out of the league, but has a, a, who lives in an area with the team just keep showing up. This

This is a networking opportunity. Let me just keep showing my face enough so that you guys remember what you had and what you need. Like, it's just like when you, you know, you pass out your resume, you're just like, hey, I'm around if you need me. I know you're not hiring right now, but I'm available. Let me know. Here's my business card. I feel like that was Odyssey Sims just popping up at home games. Like, yeah, I'm here to support. But also, you know, I know how to run that, right? Like, I know I can get you that pass.

Perfect. Sitting courtside, making sure everyone sees her and it's like, oh, yay. I know. Genius. Genius. Wow. So I

I am so happy that our rallying cries have been answered. And also because we posted on social media, the compilation of you constantly mentioning that we've gotten some requests. Atlanta Dream. I don't take requests. I don't do requests, Jordan. But I will remind you, I will remind you, I will remind you.

I also did say Minnesota was gonna beat New York. - You did. - I did. - Which is a great transition. - I was just on a roll. I was on a roll. - To our next topic. How does it feel to always be right? Maybe that is just the theme of this episode for Sheryl Swoopes, but the Commissioner's Championship was last Tuesday, Minnesota won 94-89. When we were on the pod last week, I said,

I made the worst, the worst prediction. I said, JJ is not gonna score four points again. There's no way New York's gonna lose. Okay, actually she scored three points. She scored three points. So what do I know? - I'm not laughing at the three points. I'm laughing at what you said. - Wow. - There's a reason I am not the hall of famer and I just get to make predictions. But Minnesota looked great.

um, they, you know, there's games that you win and there's ugly wins, but it felt like they beat the Liberty. Like they just, they played better than them. Um, Bridget Carlton had 23 points on eight of 10 for shooting five assists. You know, some people were saying she maybe should have got that MVP award, but, um,

Nafisa Collier had 21 and six rebounds. So she was named MVP. Brianna Stewart had a solid game, led New York with 24 points, 11 rebounds. Sabrina Inescu, 23 points, 10 assists. But Minnesota came away the victor and the money. Each player.

Reminder, gets a bigger bonus for winning the Commissioner's Cup, approximately $40,000. Then the WNBA Finals, you get around $11,000. But this is a cash grab. Also, if you saw those celebratory videos after...

I love them. The teacher Heideman came in. She was like, I asked, they hit it's hitting our bank account tonight. And they were like, she's like, No, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying it's coming. But you saw her and Courtney Williams. They were both like, we win as now. But we have money, the money in their pocket. But question for you. And I don't know if you know this answer. So

approximately 40,000 for winning the commissioners cup, but only 11 for finals. I know. I know. Huh? We seem to make that a little bit. Yeah. That makes sense. Cause it doesn't. Can I rewind for one second, please? John Quayle Jones. You gotta be better. Stewie is going to do what she does. She's doing it. Sabrina. I also want to say this cause we talked a little bit about it. Sabrina,

I think we should start talking about Sabrina being in the category of most improved player. Oh, interesting. This season. Yeah. I'm just putting that out there. I'm just putting that out there. Okay. We can talk about that later, but I need to put that out there. Here's my thing with JJ. You have all of the tools and then some that it takes to be a hell of a player in this league. She has the size. She has the skill set. You know, the part I feel is missing is

is that dog that I am going to give it to you every night, all night. You better pack a lunch 'cause it's gonna be tough for you. The Commissioner's Cup, it's $40,000 on the line. Like you gotta show up in moments like that. Now go ahead, tell me what you're gonna tell me. - Here's what I'm gonna say, two things.

One, the commissioners cup championship game, the stats don't count towards regular season. So she's probably really happy about that, but that three points ain't gonna mess up her average. But secondly,

How do you and this is a legitimate question. How much do you just tip your hat to the Minnesota Lynx defense because they were able to do that twice. And I do feel like JJ has been dominating against other teams other nights, but it just seems like Minnesota kind of has her number. And again, we had that conversation, the number one offense versus the number one defense, which one is going to win out. And their defensive scheme looked pretty good.

But you're shaking your head. You don't buy that. No, it's no, no, no, no. I'm just calling it how I see it. No, it's not that I don't buy that. I think you're 100% correct when you talk about number one offense, number one defense. Here's where maybe I'm just built different. I'm sorry, JJ. I don't care what the defense is that they're throwing at you that you're seeing.

You're better than three points. You have to find a way to contribute more offensively.

I don't know. I just think at some point she has to decide that she wants to be dominant because she can't be. She has all the tools to be a dominant player in this league. Very true. She's averaging 16.2 points per game. And the best part is we're going to I have a question about Minnesota side of things, but to wrap up the New York side.

They play each other this week. They play each other on Tuesday where it's not commissioners cup. Like can New York kind of bounce back? We'll be able, we'll be able to see that if they can. So if we're going to have a very different conversation from my point of view of JJ also scores three points or four points again against the links this week, but hopefully she has that bounce back game.

One question here to wrap this up. What does this mean? This win over New York in the commissioners cup game mean for Minnesota? Because historically people, the teams that have won the commissioners cup game have been in the finals, not necessarily won the finals, but have been in the finals. Do you see this Minnesota team being in the finals or what does this win mean? Oh, you trying to put me on the spot. Here's what I'll say. So, um,

Minnesota wins the Commissioner's Cup and then they go to Dallas and they lose. Right? I think there were a lot of reasons behind that. Honestly, I think one, they went in there like, oh, it's Dallas, right? They've lost what 11 in a row. We're going to win this game easily. I'm sure that was their mentality and they celebrated a little bit. So I don't know, maybe a little hangover here or there, who knows? I don't know. But I will say this, even in that loss,

This Minnesota team is the real deal. And Cheryl Reeves said it best when she said, ain't many people talking about us, but you got to talk about us now. This team is

is the real deal. Adding Courtney Williams, Natisha Heideman, Alana Smith, and then Nafisa's playing well. Dorca Juhasz is playing really well for them. They just got Diamond Miller back. This Minnesota team

I mean, I could see them in the finals. I really could. They're playing that kind of basketball. And you know what Coach Reeves says she really likes about this team is that

One, they're fun, but they love playing for each other. They're leading the league in assists. And that's because they're sharing the basketball. They're not all about, well, you took the last shot, so let me take the next three. And now it's my turn. It's all about, we just want to win. And you can see it when they're playing. Even when they're not winning, you can still see how they play for each other, how together they are. And they're a fun team to watch. Yeah.

So it would not surprise me at all if this Minnesota Lynx team is in the finals. Well, the woman who's always right just put a stake in a statement.

So I think come September, October, we're going to be able to rewind this tape and play that back. But I'm with you. I think they are solid from top to bottom. But again, looking forward to their matchup again this week, I think it's going to be good because it's always just flat out. It's always good to see Nafisa Collier go up against Brianna Stewart. They are competitors, and it's really fun to watch them to compete.

All right, the last little bit of news for this first segment, the All-Star Roster Reveal is going to be today. This is the day that you are listening. It's a Tuesday at 9 p.m. Eastern on WNBA Countdown. We will get to see who is on Team WNBA and who is going to be going up against Team USA today.

In Phoenix. Woo! I'm kind of sad that we're recording this on a Monday, but we're going to talk about it next week once we get the roster. But I'm looking forward to it. Should be interesting. Yeah, I'm excited to see it. I just, I don't want to be disappointed by Team WNBA roster.

It's tough to be like, man, I want to know, but I don't want to be disappointed. Like, I want to guard my feelings. That's fair. It's very valid. Very valid. Because there are some players for me that I'm like, she absolutely should be on there. And I don't think there are a couple of players I don't think will be on All-Star team. Well, we'll be able to break it down. That'll be on WNBA countdown. That'll do it for this segment. But we can't wait.

to kick it back because we have a very exciting guest. When we come back, we'll be chatting with Cindy Brunson, play-by-play commentator of the Phoenix Mercury. Stick around.

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All right, so we are joined with a guest queen today and we are excited. We have Cindy Brunson, the play by play commentator for the Phoenix Mercury, more of the voice, the iconic voice of the Mercury in the house. Cindy, thanks so much for being on with us.

Oh, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciated to see you Jordan and my sister from another Mr. Cheryl Swoop's day made. Like my July is off to the optimal start. Your hot July. Yes, especially in Phoenix. It is. But Jordan, I...

Before you go, I love that, how you just said the voice of the Phoenix Mercury. Because she does. She has that voice that when you hear it, you're like, oh, I know exactly who that is. Yeah. My favorite line? Can I say my favorite line? Say it. I want to hear it. Grab a snack and come on back. Come on back. Yes! Can I tell you my favorite one, too? Yes. Because I like that one. I like that one. My favorite one is...

She's so deep in her bag, she found all the loose tic-tacs. Let's go. So good. Well, I love how both of us have worked with you in different areas. You've worked with Cheryl with AU Hoops, me with the Pac-12. So now we're talking WNBA and Mercury. And I just want to kick things off with a little softball question. What is one word...

that you would use to describe the Mercury so far this season? Explosive. Tell us why. Explosive. Yeah, I like that. Because when Ka decides to be Ka, nobody can stop her. Five 30-point games on her resume. Only Asia Wilson has as many this season.

And you know, Asia has her own gravitational pull this season. That whole revenge tour with that fourth place MVP vote has her fired up like nobody else. So it's her award to lose, but Ka is right there in the conversation. And when she decides to destroy people, she fully does. And

Phoenix is a better team when she shows up and shows out. Oh, that's good. Before we move on to another question, are you the one that gave Asia that fourth place vote?

Oh, no, no, no. Ms. Charleston. I just had to put that out there. I just had to put that out there. I know. You know I know you didn't. I just couldn't help it. I have my suspicions as to who did. It was not me. It was not me.

Okay. That's some bonus podcast, but you guys got to pay for that. You got to pay for that, right? You don't get that information for free. No, no. Okay, wait. Can we talk about

about kyle real quick because you mentioned those five 30 point games and before this season she only had one 30-point game like did you see anything in training camp when she came over in free agency at the beginning of the season that did she just have a different look in her eye that she was going to be more aggressive this year or did she talk about being more aggressive this year in those early days

She talked about being more consistent. That was the theme at Media Day when she came to the Mercury. She was coming off a career high year in Chicago where she averaged almost 19 points a game, but she really wanted to be consistent. And that's still something that she's striving to do here with the Mercury. She's already had three games in single digit scoring this season.

and we're 18 games in, she had three all of last season. So again, she's just trying to get to that consistency mark. But the connection between her and Tosh Cloud is undeniable. That Philly to Philly thing is real. And when the two of them are connected, there's no better assist shot maker tandem in the W. Mm-hmm.

I mean, there's like so much we could get into. I want to go. So my word. Can I first say something? Yeah. First, first, first. Let me clear the air and save Beck Allen. So much was made of a piece of video posted on ESPNW where it looked like Caitlin Clark dropped Beck Allen like a bad habit. Oh, yeah. And then proceeded, right? Then proceeded to airball the three. Yeah. Okay.

for the record i have looked at that video with you know 10 different sets of eyeballs beck tripped on caitlyn's shoot she got tripped up literally physically tripped by caitlyn she wasn't dropped by caitlyn there's a difference there is a difference there is a difference highlights don't always show that part but no appreciate your service appreciate your service it became a viral thing

thing I was like why are we celebrating an air ball what yeah that's true you usually only get the highlight if you make the bucket that's that's that oh yes Jordan like yes oh yes because my thing is like you can't you can't show it and make it look like she dropped Beck

Yeah. Without showing the air ball, right? Because it was an air ball. But that is what you saw. That's what I saw. I was like, oh, snap. Yeah. And I'm so glad you... The back has been amazing. So I got to correct the record here. Okay. Fair. This is the place to do so in court. You do. This is in the Queens of the court. You did. So my

I question for you first, I'm going to make a statement because the one word I think of when you talk about the Mercury this season, my words fun, right? Because they look like they're having a lot of fun playing with each other. So that's my statement. Then I might ask a question. So free agency car goes to Phoenix. There's all this talk about, oh my goodness, how is Ka and Sophie going to get along with all the drama that happened before?

Talk to us about that relationship. I think it's been really awesome. Sophie is a good teammate.

And she realizes that Tosh is an alpha, right? Tosh is a dog. She comes to the table with all of the want to, all of the energy. And Sophia realizes if I'm on board with that energy, I'm going to get the ball and open three point looks. And so it's been a relationship that's worked really well.

And credit to Matt Ishbia and the ownership group of the Suns and the Mercury that are moving mountains, literally, to get the practice facility built in record time. 58,000 square feet of new two gym facilities for just the Mercury. Wow. Will open this month, like six months ahead of schedule. It was supposed to take two years. And Ishbia is like, no, that's not going to happen.

that's too open yeah so open for all-star so yeah and that was a big reason why wow probably a copper and tosh cloud and beck allen said yes i want to be a part of what the mercury are growing here because they are 10 toes down and now it's vegas seattle and phoenix with elite facilities that are going to be free agent draws the days of

just enough to get by are in everybody's rear view mirror. If teams don't come correct, they are not going to get the best players. As it should be. And that's the way it absolutely should be. Yeah. Yes. I love it. And why Indiana hasn't already locked down next year's all-star is befuddling to me. That was a great point. Right? You got this groundswell of support. You're selling out every building you go into. Why hasn't that been etched in stone?

Do we know where next year all-star is yet? No, we do not. It's usually announced after the all-star weekend, right? Because that's when we found out it was Phoenix, when we were in Vegas. Right. But why wait?

Yeah. Agreed. You know, agreed. Agreed. That's just me. That's just the peanut gallery. No, that is smart. That is a great point. If WNBA, if you're listening, get on it. Cindy said so. Right. Oh, I like that. That seems like a no brainer.

No-brainer. It's like a no-brainer. The Pacers just held the NBA also, right? Yeah, you're right. Because I pulled through Indianapolis last year for Big Ten women's basketball coverage and saw all the signage and stuff at the airport. So clearly the infrastructure is in place for them to do it and do it well. Makes sense. The bar is going to be set exceedingly high by what we're going to do in Phoenix here at the end of this month. But...

Are people excited? Is the city excited?

- For All-Stars X Factor? - Yes, yes. - Well do tell. - And we know how to put on a show. I tell you what, the whole weekend, the skills competition, everything building up to the All-Star game itself on that 20th, Phoenix does it right. I had a fan from the DMV area attend a game with me yesterday, Misha Jones, and she had never been to a Mercury ball game. And Cheryl, you know, you have sat courtside at the foot print center.

It's a vibe. The Mercury know how to put on a show and, you know, from the mascots to the dance team. I mean, our, everything is buttoned up and it's, it's really, really fun. It's a great environment. And when I don't,

had the opportunity to call a game like Sunday when ESPN pulled through. I buy tickets and I'm in the stands with the X Factor and I've got my Wetzel's pretzels and I'm cheering and I'm waving my little towel, the whole thing. And then I remembered, I was like, oh, we got a back-to-back. I have to talk out loud tomorrow. I got to...

But yeah, I mean, it is a rocking environment. I cannot wait for the WNBA to re-experience it. It's been a decade since we've hosted, so I'm super excited. I'm excited. I'm excited to be in Phoenix. Phoenix is definitely one of those places that I thought of when this whole season was

all the new fans coming in and all the sellout arenas and more people coming to games. But Phoenix was one of those places where I was like, it's kind of always been like this. Like this is what X Factor is kind of known for. Even when you talk to players, I feel like Phoenix and Seattle are up there just like places that it's hard to play into. Like that home court advantage is really strong. So excited to see that come All-Star.

Yeah, that was one of the points that both Cloud and Copper and Allen made when they came to Phoenix was they were so excited to have the X Factor behind them instead of against them. So and to your point, Jordan, last season when Phoenix only won nine games and the struggle bus ride was real.

We finished second in attendance in the league, trailing only Las Vegas. And the Aces only beat us with the final two games when they went to the bigger arena. Had they stayed at Ultra, we would have been number one in attendance. That's how strong this fan base is. Wow. I love that little tidbit. You know what's crazy is I'll go all the way back to my day, 97, and

Phoenix has always been known for their crowds. Back then, Cindy, I'm assuming you may or may not remember this. Do you remember the nuns that used to come to all of the WNBA games? The crowd at Phoenix, they've always showed up and showed out. So it's no surprise to me there.

Wait, they were literal nuns or they were dressed up as nuns? They were dressed as nuns. Oh, okay. But they were known as the nuns. Oh, I like it. They played the role and everything. I think I cussed one of them out once, but it was a nun. I asked for forgiveness after. No, I didn't. Curse it and hold it onto your rosary. Is that what you were doing?

Oh my goodness. All right. Let's, um, who was coaching GM at the time and created the term X factor. Yeah. He was the one who said we need the fan and did the, you know, crossed her arms in the form of an X and, uh, credit to her. She's in the ring of honor with, uh, the Mercury. So, uh, yeah. Shout out to her. She got the bowl. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Go ahead, Cheryl. What are we going to say?

So I want to hop into some BG questions. What, you know, what is this her second season since all the stuff happened in Russia? Right. Yeah. What would you say is the biggest difference in Brittany last season versus this season?

I think last season she was just trying to get through and thank the fans. Everywhere she went, she was dedicated to being on the floor as a thank you to the fans. And this year, she wants to win.

She came in in tip-top shape. She had the unfortunate misstep of breaking that toe because her bones got brittle because she was smoking so many cigarettes just trying to deal with the trauma of being incarcerated in a hoolock. Wow. So, yeah. Yeah.

Just horrible. But, you know, now she's bouncing back and she's had a trio of 20 point games. She's already recorded a double double. I mean, she is really rounding into form. And what's great is now Copper and

Tosh are getting used to playing with her. You know, they had to play the first 10 games without her. So now that's an adjustment. So look back at the Mercury after BG has been on the floor for 10 games and we've been at full strength to get a sense of how dynamic the Mercury can be. Yeah.

Just dominant, really. And seeming like she hasn't missed a beat. Like she came in hitting the ground running. I thought it was going to be a little more of an adjustment period coming off of that injury. But we had to picture the Mercury without her for a little bit at the beginning of the season. More running gun style. But BG just being able to balance that has been really nice to see. And just like old times. Speaking of old times, Diana Taurasi.

is like she's raised from the fountain of youth and i know on one of your broadcasts i think around the um hall of honor ceremony you know having diane tarassi's wife on penny taylor just saying how she

wanted this season like she worked so hard in the offseason was that from again from the beginning of the season and how is she feeling now because it is so fun to watch DT just go out there and ball out it's been fun to watch

Listen, she done found that fountain of youth. And all I'm asking for is a sip. Okay. No, it's her want to listen. She's a winner. She came into this league as a three time collegiate champion at UConn.

She made that Olympic team early and at that juncture with Team USA, she saw the vision of four, of five, of now six gold medals potentially. She wants that and she is all about that.

It's why she got nicknamed the White Mamba from Kobe himself. She is a dog. And now that she's got legit WNBA players around her in Copper, Allen, and Cloud, along with BG, she can see it. She hasn't been this hungry for a title since 21. And I argue...

This day had Kia Nurse not torn that ACL heading into the finals, Mercury would have beat Chicago in 2021. I can see that. Yeah. That's why Diana punched that door on the way out of town to Chicago. She wants to win, period, full stop.

yeah that was a big loss kia nurse that was a big loss for them man yeah she helped spread the floor and she helped defend the pick and roll kfc got on everybody's radar because phoenix could not defend on that side of the floor it turned into a coaching changed it yeah like everything so yeah well speaking of coaching change yeah um

you know there was a lot of talk a lot of hype when uh coach tibbets was hired that he didn't have any wba experience um from the outside looking in it looks like the players really have fun and enjoy playing for him how would you like talk about that relationship or the dynamics with the coach and the players i think the bonding really started when

The organization thought that the Suns would advance deep into the postseason, which would take out the practice facility that is now designated just for the Suns. And so they went to San Diego and they were at San Diego State's facility for a week.

And in that time, they just bonded. They got together. They learned about one another. Even though it was a big group of people before roster cuts were finalized, the core members of who you knew, like the All-Stars, the Olympians, all of that, really got on the same page. And to Nate's credit, he doesn't ask the players to do anything in practice that he won't do himself.

So he gets out there at 47 years old and runs the drills and gets into sets and bangs with BG and tries to set screens for Tosh and Copper. So it's cool. They feel a deeper connection to him because of that.

And he really believes in his system. He wants the team to get up at least 33 pointers a game. They're averaging about 29. And he really believes even with BG in the middle, as vital as she is and can be the fulcrum that they can still play inside out and bang a lot of threes. Yeah.

I mean, well, they'd be letting it fly. I know that. Yeah. Right. Cheryl, show me a shooter who doesn't want to shoot. That's a green light that players dream about. But that's what I was telling Jordan before you hopped on. Even if you're not a three point shooter, he is giving you the green light to shoot that thing. Like, let it fly.

So of course, as a player, I'm like, sign me up, coach. Yeah, I can shoot it. No doubt. Hey, I can give you five. Will they go in? I don't know. I can give them to you. And as the organization, you know, under the new leadership of general manager Nick Uren, is what he wants to do in conjunction with Tibbetts

I mean, this is just year one of this, right? The roster will reflect moreover down the roster, like top heavy, the first five, six. Yes, that makes sense.

Now we just need the gaps to be filled on the back end so that there isn't drop off. Because I think that's what's separating the elite teams, the New York, the Connecticut, the Vegas Aces of the world, the Seattle Storm. When they go to the bench, the scoring still comes. And when Phoenix goes to the bench, it's like, okay, it's a stop. Yeah.

this might go down. Okay. All right. Can cloud come back? She's had 40 seconds of rest. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. And like Beck Allen had back troubles in the fourth quarter against Indiana on Sunday. And she was the leading rebounder for the team at that time. She had nine rebounds. All of a sudden her length is not on the floor and you saw what Indiana was able to do. So right now there's just no margin for error. Um,

The top pieces are nice and now we just need to fill out the back end. Well, Jordan, can I ask another question before you go? Because I want to go back to the game on Sunday. Beck Allen not being on the floor, I think was very obvious and made a big difference. But for me watching, my biggest concern slash takeaway was that

Tosh Cloud cannot guard Melissa Smith or Aaliyah Boston on the on the ball. And, you know, I love Tosh. So it's not taking anything away from her. But to ask her to, first of all, play the one, two and then defend one, two, three and four. Like, that's a lot.

I don't even know what my question is. I just want to say that was like my, like, I was like, okay, something's got to change. Something's got to give. You got to do something different. Like, has this kind of sort of been what she's done or what he's done all season? Yes.

Yes, Tosh has raised her hand to defend Neko Uke, to defend Asia Wilson. The elite fives and fours in this league have been Tosh's assignment. And I love her tenacity. I would lay down in traffic for Tosh Cloud. But to your point...

We are dealing with- - I don't know, Cindy. - Yes, yes. - You know I'm just playing? - I'm telling you, she's such a real one. - No, she is. - Has just energized the city. Like they didn't know what they were missing until she arrived. It has just been so joyous to see. And she plays with joy. She'll make a defensive stop and do the flex and punching bag with the standard on the back of the basket. I mean, it's just awesome.

Awesome. But to your point, we're dealing with a league of pros and coaches that can recognize mismatches. And we can't afford to get caught in that kind of mismatch on the regular, which is why, you know, I hope.

leadership and management is going well emily enxler is she can't be that expensive in washington can a deal be made there uh ray burrell in los angeles and of course i'm leaning into the players that i know from athletes unlimited yeah that are a little bit bigger have a little more dog in them and can

shoot that thing in addition to defend and rebound. So yeah, I think that that's the next phase for the Mercury. But if the three ball is falling like it was for Phoenix in the second quarter,

Tosh defending bigs didn't seem as problematic. You feel me? So it just depends on the flow of the game. But for a long-term solution, no. Because I don't want Cloud expending that kind of energy. She's got to run the offense, she's got to run the defense, all of that. And hello, can you guys have a forum on where are the point guards?

Where's the next Gerd? Where's the next Christy Tolliver? It's like that position. You're speaking our language. Lindsay Whalen, right? Let's go. Why all of a sudden has that position become this phantom thing in the WNBA and you only need one hand to count up the good ones? You're 100% correct. But not only Tosh extending so much energy, but she also gets in foul trouble.

Yeah, and you need her on the court too much. You have to have the energy for the fouls. She is too much of a center of this team where you have to it and I understand how, you know, the coach is in a tough situation because you love that tenacity. You want her to get her energy from that defensive effort.

But at the same time, you have to know what is more valuable. It's her running the offense and being able to maybe be in help side more than on ball. And we heard Tosh, what was that a couple weeks ago? She's like, I need to be on first team first.

all defense because i'm guarding one through five like she has set her campaign out and she wants it to be known that she is this defensive prowess which we know that already but when you look at this roster to your point cindy we need you to be the pg right now we need you to run the offense and maybe just have really good on-ball defense with the guards i

Because when Tosh is locked in on the offensive end, she's got three assist points double doubles this season. Three of them. She's the only person in the WNBA that's got that many. And we are 3-0 when she does that. That's the Tosh that I want to see on the regular.

Yeah, because even watching the game on Sunday, I just didn't see her being that aggressive offensively looking to score. And I felt like there were moments where she really could have taken advantage of that.

who was guarding her and looking to attack. - Oh, for sure. And especially when Kaitlyn Clark got whistled for her second foul, why every single play wasn't designed to go at her and attack her. - Gotta go at her. - Because there's a reason why Christy Sides takes her out at the end of games or substitutes her in and out often. - Yes. Yeah, hello. - Yeah. So if that's in play,

I mean, because she is a weapon when it comes to dishing the basketball. There is no doubt. I knew that skill set would transfer when she led the NCAA not once but twice in points and assists. It's crazy. It's the best part of her game to me.

Oh, for sure. The three metrics that I look for for Kaitlyn Clark are, will she score as much as a rookie as Diana did? Because to me, it's comp for comp as point guards coming into the league. And Diana averaged 17 points a game, so she's almost there. My next comp is...

The assists, which I knew would translate to your point, Cheryl, Tisha Panichero in 1998 averaged seven and a half dimes per as a rookie. Caitlin's flirting with that. And then my last comp, right? My last comp is how good do you make your team? When Diana came to Phoenix, they won nine more games than the year before she was drafted.

So now can Indiana get to 22 wins because that would be the nine game improvement. That's the bump. So those are the kind of trifecta of things that I'm looking for, because when I watch Caitlin in person in the WNBA, she looks like a WNBA player, but I'm not seeing anything that

She's not getting my eyeballs more than Asia Wilson is right now, or more than Chelsea Gray now that Gray is back in the league because Gray behind the back and you know, used to do and you know, the whole deal. It's just so much more exciting. They're just really good plays. And then you put up the shooting. If you're two for 10 from three and you turn the ball over six times, your 12 assists become six to me, but just gets cut in half. Right.

And I think Phoenix put a lot of stuff on tape that is going to help other teams down the road because they were just playing defensive back, basically defensively, and picking her passes off in midair. Even Diana got one. I know. I saw it. Let's go, OG.

That was some prep with Diana moving that swift. I like it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And then Clark has just gotta shore things up in the passes that she does make. She's gotta stop feeding her bigs and even like a cutting Kelsey Mitchell,

behind the basket. She's giving passes where people can't do anything with the rock. That's got to get cleaned up. And all of that will. She has the capability, no doubt. But for everybody to kind of, from the outside looking in and the new fans and stuff, you know, acting like she's the sun and the rest of the league is in orbit around her is really...

It's disquieting. It is. I'll just say that. I'll let you use that word. I'd probably use another one, but you can use it. So this is the last one I have for you. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Maybe. Well, maybe. So if you had to vote on Rookie of the Year today,

who's your, not who you're giving it to, but who's at the top of your list right now? - Oh, Angel Reese. When you break a record that Candace Parker set, you have my complete and full attention. I knew the rebounding would translate. I knew the rebounding would translate. What I did not anticipate was the point reduction. - The sparring. - Yeah. - Yeah, that is. And to her absolute credit,

She is getting people on board in Chicago and around the league excited about what the Sky are doing. Absolutely. And the move by Teaspoon to put Kennedy Carter in the starting line. You talk about a ticket-selling player. Somebody I would be in line to see. If I wasn't getting paid to call the game, I would buy a ticket and sit down and watch Hollywood work. Yes.

Pray, pray, pray, pray she makes the all-star team. She has future all-star MVP written all over her just by showing up to the gym. She's just that type of player. Yeah. She's that type of player that you want to see in an all-star game. She is what all-star games are all about. It's so true. The razzle dazzle, the excitement, the fun, the trash talking. Like give me all of that.

Yeah. And I haven't, I haven't seen that from Clark. I want to see it. I saw it in college, but when she was in college, it was like, she was Gladys and everybody else was the pips and you expected her to dominate now. Now she's playing good on good. And so because of that,

I'm sure she'll elevate. She'll get in the lab just like everybody does in the W who wants to be great. But I'm just seeing what I expected to see. But when I watch other teams like Chelsea Gray coming back from injury and Kennedy Carter, Alana Smith from Minnesota. She looked like that at Stanford. Are you kidding me?

And now all Collier does is eat because Smith will get the rebound. They exchange. You want to shoot the three this time down the floor? Should I? Oh, okay. No, it's super exciting. I, I,

I think we agree with that pick so far, just what Angel Reese is doing. We have a flower segment that we're going to get to a little bit later. We'll talk about Angel. But before we let you go, Cindy, going back to the Mercury right now, they're at the sixth place. They're 9-9. What do you think? Just some parting words for them as we're heading towards All-Star and even the back end of the season. What do they need to do to kind of get over that

that hump because they're just hovering over 500 right now. I think they're still learning to play together. Again, we haven't had 10 games yet with BG and Beck healthy in the lineup with the regular starters. So I still think that chemistry is building. They simply have to take advantage of home cooking because the X factor makes such a big difference. I think they may look back on Sunday's game against AFC.

Indiana as a lost opportunity at the end of the season. I hope not, but it was, you know, you're up by double digits. You got to lock that down. And I also think that the players that aren't going to the Olympics are

We'll use the rest to just get better and be more reliable and extend the bench, which I think will help the Olympians when they come back. I think this is a team, if it finishes top six, can really be problematic. It's all about health. If BG and, you know, Cloud and Copper and Allen and DT are on the floor and can play

32 of the 40 minutes, that can be very problematic for the rest of the league. I agree. We talked about it. You don't want to see this Mercury team in the playoffs because of the veteran leadership and experience that is kind of oozing through this roster. So I think they just got to get there and maybe the plan is to just kind of stay at 500 and be like, okay, then we're going to just pounce towards the end of the season. But it's working. Um,

I know that we got to let you go because you got to get to a game. Connecticut versus North Korea is tonight. By the time our listeners hear this, it will already be concluded. But that's also going to be a fun one. I'm excited to see Connecticut's 9. Listen, I just need Phoenix to score more than 47 points like they did in the first meeting. That was just.

- That was rough. - That was rough. - That was the first of a back-to-back. So, and they played really well against New York. They didn't win, but...

I know that they can bounce back. But yeah, I love the fact that there is so much potential for Phoenix. They've got several players who can go on a heater. And I think that's what you need when it comes to pushing for the postseason and having success in the playoffs. That's what made Dallas so dangerous last year with Arike, because she a bucket. So I think with Copper,

Tarasi already has a 30-point game. She just had 31 the other day. She's got multiple games with seven made three-pointers. The personalities and the players are there. It's just about the want to and the help.

Beautifully said. Spoken perfectly like the voice of the Phoenix Mercury. Cindy Brunson, queen, thanks for stopping by. We appreciate you. Oh, thanks so much for having me. My July is off to an amazing start. You are my first and favorite podcast listener. When the week begins, it's like, oh, let me, I'm walking the dog. Let me dial up queens. Here we go. Thank you.

You're the best. Thank you so much, Cindy. Again, this was so much fun. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're giving out some flowers. Overnight, Duncan's pumpkin spice coffee has sent folks into a cozy craze. I'm Lauren LaTulip reporting live from home in my hand-knit turtleneck that my Nana made me. Mmm, cinnamony. The home with Duncan is where you want to be. Welcome back to Queens of the Court. And we...

have to hand out some flowers because it's our favorite thing to do that means it's time for giving flowers presented by atnt who we giving some flowers to today cheryl who besides you and i um i know we always get the bouquets yeah we should get them every day i mean how can we not give them to angel reese

we got to for for a lot of reasons right like what an incredible week for her and do do we want to talk about the bt award first or we want to talk about basketball yeah maybe let's talk about bt awards first because she won sportswoman of the year by bet which is like a really big deal and it was really excited about that for her because that just kind of shows

I don't know, just to be kind of accepted and celebrated by us and by your people. Like that's really cool. I also want to say, I saw this clip with Magdy Stallion and she was talking to Shannon Sharp in an interview and she was like, yeah, you know, sometimes I throw around the basketball like a little bit. I swear, I think I'm Angel Reese out there. And I'm like,

She made it. She made it. This is a casual fan level of a name drop by a superstar. I loved that so much because it's kind of incorporated in that. But not just by anybody, by the one and only Meg Thee Stallion, who happens to be Angel's friend. But I'm just saying. She say, "I feel like I'm Cheryl Swoopes."

Like, I would be like, oh, yes, Meg. No, but how dope is that? Really cool. The only thing I missed in Angel winning the Sportswoman of the Year Award by BET was

Is that she couldn't go because I know her outfit would have been outfit would have been. Woo. Off the chain. Yes. Yes. We already know. Yes. We already know. But on the basketball court, she's also been off the chain. And, you know, we talked heavy about Angel last week and your guys's moment that you shared at the game in Chicago. But she's.

And even Cindy just talked about it. We knew that the rebounding was going to translate, but 10 straight doubles? What? Beating out the two-time MVP, Candice Parker, for the streak? And this is year one. This isn't even full year one. We are like a quarter of the way through her rookie year, and this is what she's doing. Yeah, I mean...

The fact that Candace Parker held that record and that in itself says something because not a lot of people could do what Candace did. Right. And when I look at what Angel is doing in a very short time in her professional career as a rookie,

That is so special. And to your point, yes, we all knew like, because rebounding to me, that's all about heart effort. Want to, I want it more than you. And Angel has that dog in her that it takes to be a great rebounder. Never, ever, ever a question about that. The questions were,

the scoring aspect, right? Can she score the basketball? And the fact that she just recorded her 10th straight double-double

don't know if that question should still be there because she can, can she get better offensively? Can she work on her post moves? A hundred percent. Everybody knows that. And she will get in the lab and get better, but let's give her her bouquet, her roses, her flowers. Don't know what her favorite flower is. We'll even throw in some, um,

Reese's Pieces, right? Is that what they call her? Yes. That's her fans.

And she is just getting it done for her squad. Congratulations, Angel. These are your flowers. This is your bouquet presented by AT&T.

Whoa, I like that. I love giving flowers. That's my favorite part. - Add to, add to, add to. - Like a little flower business. When last year, did we give out a little boutonnieres? - We did. Petals, we gave you some petals. You get rose petals today. - We have one more bouquet to give out. Our very, very, very special producer, Alex, is moving on from us, but

She means so much to our team. She has been here from the beginning. She is so smart.

We love you, Alex. Thank you for championing women's sports and women's basketball and using your mind, which is beautiful and great and full of ideas to help Queens of the Court. We love you so much. And I am a better journalist because of you and being around you.

Okay, okay, okay. We have not shed any tears yet. So I'm going to get through this without shedding tears. Yeah, so you know how people usually say you're moving on to something bigger and better? Not in this case. It's not getting any better than us, Alex. It cannot. Maybe bigger, but not better. No, but seriously, Alex, oh my gosh. Oh, I just really hate to see you go.

Super excited for you, though. Jordan says she's a better journalist because of you. I'm a better everything because of you. This whole podcast space was not anything I was familiar with. And your knowledge alone has made me a better person, a better, I guess, podcaster is what I'll say. Yeah. And your knowledge. You always make us better.

better at what we do even spur of the moment. It's like, Alex, we need this. We need that. And you're always there. I'm absolutely going to miss you. But so excited for you. Happy for you. And don't forget where you started. Not really. We love you, Alex. We love you, Alex.

Well, this has been fun per usual, a great episode. Shout out again to our listener, Sabrina, for that listener email at the top of the show. If you have questions, comments, or if you want to write maybe to Cheryl's husband to say she's always right. Please do.

I would love for you to also write into him that I'm also always right. But please continue to follow, rate, and review the show. It's available on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us questions, feedback, stories to that listener email, queensofthecourtatodyssey.com. And you all know what we do around here. You know where to find us on social media. I am at airsweeps22. And she, her, Jordan is at...

Hey, Jordan R. Okay. That was a good one. But you know how I always dance on that part? And I was kind of like, you know, the video never really gets cut.

So I just kind of dance and don't really squeeze it. Well, we have a commercial on WNBA League Pass. I don't know if you've seen it. But my dance move made the commercial. And now I'm scared to really show off my dance moves because now everybody can see them. So I don't know how, but it's out there. Because you was moving it. I was. Oh, goodness. Okay. Queens of the Court is an Odyssey original created in partnership with the WNBA.

The show is produced by Alex Ozzie. The executive producers are Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Social media assistance from Isabella Apple. Music from T-Storm Battle. And a very special thanks to Lena Moss Glazer. And court. Is adjourned. Is adjourned. We love you, Alex.