67: The Original Ghost Ship: The Story of the Mary Celeste | Red Thread
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Through shifting curtains of mist, the Mary Celeste floated silently across an ocean that held its breath, sails heavy with secrets too dark to speak about.

Lanterns flickered weakly, illuminating empty corridors and cabins haunted by whispers of passengers never officially recorded. Rumors suggested the ship had a destination unmarked on any map. An island known only by those who traded in shadows and unearned privilege. At the helm stood a lone figure, his face concealed but unmistakably familiar. A man whose wealth and influence kept his darkest sins adrift and out of sight. A man who himself would become a ghost.

much like the Mary Celeste itself. Of course, Jeffrey Epstein has made his return to Red Thread once more each week. What wacky scenario will Jeffrey Epstein find himself in next? Of course, he's connected to the Mary Celeste. This is more absent usual, though. At least it's ghosts we're talking about now. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's dead, so...

Yeah, I guess he's a ghost. He's a time-traveling ghost who traveled back in time to pilot the Mary Celeste. It makes even less sense. Yeah, why not? Fair enough. Who cares? I gave up halfway through that.

That's what you should expect. Hello, welcome to Red Thread. That's what you should expect from the Red Thread. Jeffrey Epstein and also giving up halfway through. This week, we're going to be talking about Mary Celeste, the original ghost ship. Not actually sure if it's the original ghost ship, but it's definitely the most prolific ghost ship. It's what I think of when I hear, you know, the terminology ghost ship, the Mary Celeste. With me this week, I'm joined by, of course, friendly Geordies, Jordan. Good morning.

Or good afternoon. Yeah, good afternoon. Thank you very much. I will excuse this relapsing judgment, but nonetheless, how are you? I'm great, thank you.

I'm doing awesome. I'm very happy to be here talking about ghosts and spooky stuff today. As am I. Yeah, you said going into this, you were very excited for this one. Any particular reason? You like spooky shit? I just like the fact that every now and then there is a ship that just arrives and there's no one there. And what's the answer? Almost certainly pirates. However, it could be ghosts. And that's way cooler. And think about that. Cooler than pirates? Yeah.

It's hard to fathom, really, when you think about it. Isn't it? No. Sadly, it's usually never the case of ghosts. But we can believe. We can, of course, believe. Dude, I desperately want to believe in ghosts. Like, I don't think there's anything more that would make me happy than figuring out that ghosts are real. Because it'd be so mind-blowing. So you're more of a ghost man than an alien man, are you? No, because I genuinely think aliens exist.

Ah, yes, yes, of course, yes. Yeah, like I think aliens have visited to some degree, or at least just disregarding that, I think like we're in an infinite galaxy that's forever expanding. So also the potential for aliens is also infinite. So yeah, aliens exist.

Somewhere there, yeah, alright. And then ghosts on the maybe pile. Ghosts I want to believe in, but I just can't snap my, no, it's not maybe, I just can't snap my rational brain into imagining a world where ghosts actually do exist. Yeah, well that's a you problem, isn't it, Jackson? Maybe you should try harder. What's your tactic? Running headfirst into a wall and giving yourself a concussion to the point where you can believe in it?

That's the only way I can see you believing in ghosts. Look, what about this? What about if you just hung around those Tree of Life shops long enough that those hippie chicks' way of thinking kind of just permeates your brain? I feel something spiritual.

Look, the other one that I will say that I... What about this one? Come on, Jackson. Surely you're on board with this. The one that I want to believe in possibly more than ghosts, Loch Ness Monster. I really want him to be real. Wait, what? Say it into the microphone. Sorry. Loch Ness Monster. Oh, yeah, of course. I'm trying not to drown while talking. I mean, it's just a dinosaur that likes to swim a lot. I'm totally into that. Yeah. Yeah.

But again, it's not on the same level of aliens. I can't rationalize Loch Ness monster existing, unfortunately. But I want to. I want to believe in all of these things. Every single thing that we talk about on the show, I want to believe in it because there's nothing cooler to me than the idea that there's something actually interesting about this world that we live in.

Yeah, that is nice, isn't it? There's always just that sort of like CNET sort of interesting of, I don't know, Dubai's making a new Wonder City. Nah, I'd trade it for the ghosts. Yeah, 100%. Nothing we can create is as interesting or impressive as just ghosts existing. I mean, but yeah, again, like the rationality of my brain, I'm like, well, if ghosts existed...

millions and billions... Well, not billions, but millions of people have died across time. Surely we would be, like, overrun by spiritual ghosts at this point. Surely I would have encountered one. But no, they're always, like, ghosts from the 1800s of, like, some small Victorian era girl haunting people for some reason. Those are the only people allowed to be ghosts, apparently. Victorian for some... Yeah, you're right. I wonder what was going on there. Yeah, something. Something from that time period. I'll tell you this. It is easily the scariest time period. Yeah.

photos of even queen victoria at the time are terrifying and they're trying to make it look good yeah it's a very scary time period everything's horrific about it the aesthetic itself is haunted by anyone yeah exactly but if ghosts were real this is what i'm saying we would have far more modern ghosts like again jeffrey epsom would show up and haunt some people you'd be able to see him in photos or evps or whatever the fuck they're called you know

How do you explain that gay man that virtually every mother on the planet loves and pays top dollar to see and is able to talk to dead relatives that are sitting in the audience of a packed out?

Well, I, I don't know. I don't know. No, I don't know. But I believe it. I thought that this name that I can't remember was a household name. Hang on. I mean, it sounds like he's just a grifter, but yeah, it sounds cool. Yeah. It sounds cool. It's just, again, that's always spirit talk. No, that's not the guy. Jesus. Oh, I know who you're talking about. Uh,

What's his name? Jason Galaxy. Jackson Galaxy. His name's Jackson Galaxy. Yeah.

Well, you better fucking change your last name to that. That's sick. Wait, why do I know that name? This isn't him. What the hell are you talking about? Who is that one? It's just a man you just posted about, but he's just like, I really like cats. It's like, that's great. But can you just explain to me how you can be that bald? I didn't know that was possible. You're a reptile. You are a reptile. There's no follicles there. Nothing. But we are reptiles at the end of the day.

Yeah, well he is. He fucking actually is one of those lizard people. Look at that. That is extra bald. That's right. He's the cat person, isn't he, Kira? That's why I remember him. Why do you remember that? Why did I think he was a ghost person?

There's really nothing to suggest that here. This man's entire personality is that he likes cats. That's it. What a profoundly interesting man. Maybe there was an episode of his show where he communicated with a cat ghost or something and I just connected that. I don't know. Hang on. So this guy is a cat whisperer like all of those Cesar Millan types, is he? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cesar Millan does dogs though.

Yeah, he does dogs. This guy does cats. Cat ghosts. I don't know. You can't really speak to cats. You're sitting there watching him going, how does he know he's hungry? No clue. Kira, you're joining us for this episode. How's it going? Hey, Kira. It's going good. Thank you. Did you enjoy researching this one?

It was actually quite fun and quite interesting. Not even just the theories, but the whole lifespan of this ship. Yes. A lot of it is history around the ship, right? And it's weird situations that occurred before the actual ghost ship element of it. Mm-hmm.

Okay, so. It's a very romantic time, isn't it? The 1800s in general. Sailing around the world, discovering new islands. The new world. If Mills and Boone novels are anything to suggest, passionate, long, steamy romances with buff Norwegian men. Like Outlander vibes.

I couldn't imagine anything grosser than getting down and dirty on a, you know, a four month, I don't know how long boat trips are, but you know, halfway into one of these long Atlantic ocean, you know, boat trips basically. Oh, when you think about it, what you just fucking amongst some rats, very little difference between that and having sex in London tower. No privacy at all. In fact, I'm sure the other sailors would go probably out of their way to watch if they could watch it through like peep holes and stuff.

Just the scent of like, I don't know where people even shit on boats. They shit over the side. Where do they shit? Is there a shitting place? Like a corner of the ship that they use to shit?

I reckon it's a bucket and you chuck it out. That'd make the most sense, surely. Oh, yeah, that would make more sense, yeah. What, do you think that they've made some sort of pinball machine on the... I mean, it's funner. It's much more fun. I have no idea. I don't know the, you know, how boats work. Especially in the 1800s. You've really asked me the wrong bit. They could be powered by shit for all I know. You have to keep shitting to keep it going. What, when the winds are down? Yeah. You've got to use your own. Yeah.

Boats are super impressive though when you think about it that we made these fucking things back in the day. The wooden ones? Yeah. I'm not saying they've got like the Titanic back then. I'm saying just in general like wooden boats. Yeah. It was like our very first invention that was like super impressive to me.

Yes. Specifically, I might add the ones that were able to travel across oceans. Exactly. Yeah. That is incredible to me. Going across the Mediterranean, what are you doing? You're basically on a raft on a lake. Easy. Piss easy. Not impressed at all. Nothing.

Going across the Indian Ocean in that. Or the Atlantic or the Pacific even, especially the Pacific. I didn't know that you were such an ocean connoisseur that you knew the difference between these so well. I thought everyone knew the big oceans at least. I'm aware of the big oceans, but I know that there's one that's particularly treacherous even to this day. There's sort of an area that ships go through now that

and disappear off the face of the earth. And no, it is not the Bermuda Triangle. I was going to say the Bermuda Triangle, or I guess you could say the Ring of Fire around the entirety of the Pacific. But I don't know if the Pacific is any more dangerous nowadays. I don't actually know what the most dangerous ocean is in the current year.

And something called like a... I don't even know what this is. Someone in the comments will definitely know, but it's sort of like a reverse wave or multi-wave or... A rogue wave? Something like that where you... Huh? A rogue wave? Rogue wave. There we go. Is that it? It's incredible, Jackson. You really are pretty much just... You're like one of those boomers that play Trivial Pursuit at the pub, but not for their generation. I don't know if it is a rogue wave. I was thrown a suggestion out. Don't give me the credit before... That's what I'm saying. Honestly, you've just got this...

general knowledge for our generation. You know? Well, yeah. Rogue waves are something that's always been very cool. And also I do love Trivial Pursuit. So, you know. You know. I do like those wedges. The rogue wave of thoughts just hit this conversation. Two of your interests crashing together. Yeah.

No, yeah, rogue waves are cooler. Just like what everyone imagines a tsunami. Tsunamis are generally just like deluges of water, you know, like giant floods, basically. That's what a tsunami is, just a massive displacement of water. Whereas rogue waves are what you actually think of when you think of tsunami, you know, like the giant towering waves. Oh, and so that's what it is. I thought that it was a wave that went...

from some other direction that they weren't expecting. This is just a tower of water that smacks you. Yeah, exactly. It's just a very tall wave. So that's why I don't think Rogue Wave is actually what you're talking about, which means I have to give the Trivial Pursuit wedge back. Oh, okay. Right. As is custom. All right. Let's learn about the original ghost ship. And no, I don't know what you were talking about in terms of reverse waves. I do know what you're talking about. Just not the name.

So on December 4th, 1872, the captain of the British brig de Gracia was alerted by the appearance of an aimless ship in the distance. The brig and its crew were around 600 kilometers off the shores of Azores, an autonomous region of Portugal, when the mysterious and unexpected ship was spotted.

The captain of the Dei Gratia, David Morehouse, was more than surprised when he took a closer look. He recognized the ship. It was a ship by the name of the Mary Celeste. Name drop, that's the name of the episode. Immediate intrigue. Hmm, Mary Celeste, what's that doing there? Both ships had departed from New York City, the Dei Gratia, departing eight days after the now erratic and directionalist ship in front of it.

An uneasy feeling grew in Morehouse. He knew the ship should have arrived at its original destination, Genoa, in Italy by now. He decided it would be prudent to investigate.

The Dei Gratia, meaning by the grace of God in Latin, adjusted its course as they sailed over to the Mary Celeste. In the meantime, a few crew members were assigned to the task of boarding the ship with the intent of figuring out what the issue was. As they approached, they were further confused when they couldn't see any crew members aboard the upper deck of the Mary Celeste.

Can you imagine how spooky that would be, Jordan? Oh, man, I'd love to have... Oh, wouldn't it? That would be something that you think about for the rest of your life until your deathbed, basically. I want to experience something like this. Me too. Maybe not as spooky, but something where I'm looking back on it until the day that I die. Like, damn, what happened then? Like that mysterious element.

No, that has always captured my imagination because one of my dad's friends was in the Navy and he has many a tale of that. Walking onto a ship where there's like a half-eaten dinner, no crew, television still on. So spooky. Television on a boat?

Yeah, well, like, I don't know, video or whatever, you know? Oh, I guess in the modern years, yeah. I'm thinking 1800s again for some reason. I don't know. Okay, why would my dad know someone from 1850? The ghost of someone from the 1800s, maybe. I don't know. See, this is why you can't give me the credit of being, like, general knowledge intelligent, because I say shit like that. Okay? Okay.

You're going to stop complimenting me. You take back the trivial pursuit wedge for that one as well. That is just general life skills. I've got no street smarts when it comes to figuring out how old your dad might be. The street smarts wedge.

No, yeah. Another one that's really creepy for me is lighthouses. Like the same kind of vibe, you know. Oh, yeah. On abandoned islands, not abandoned, but like not built up islands or whatever with a lighthouse and a lighthouse keeper who's lived there for 20 years and then just disappears. And people try to figure out like what the fuck happened to this guy. Or just a lighthouse keeper that's generally gone slowly insane from the loneliness. Yeah.

kind of almost are jealous of that life in a way. Oh, dude, I was just about to say, there's something romantic about it to me. I don't know what it is. This whole period, even though it would have been so smelly and so filthy, everything that we're talking about, it...

should be front and centre of Mills and Boone's novels instead of what is borderline bestiality that seems to be what romance novels are now. Yeah, what they've turned into. It should be smelly sea captains. Go back to that. Replace current smut books with smut books about old lighthouse keepers, please. Please, go back to the classics.

You should watch the movie The Lighthouse, by the way, if you haven't already. Hardly recommend. Shout out. Can't second. Do it. Alright, so the pervasive uneasy feeling would persist as the search party boarded and began to look around the ship. They quickly realized that the boat was completely unmanned throughout. The condition of the ship was also rather strange, with one meter of water being found to have settled at the bottom of the ship. But I don't think they found any, like, hull breaches, right? Like, it wasn't taking on new water. So that's rather mysterious.

Most of the contents on board were still there and where they should be, including the crew's belongings in their room. Six months of provisions and the 1,701 barrels of alcohol that the ship carried were all still there. That's a lot of alcohol. Yeah. I bet it was rum. Oh, I hope it was rum. The only things that appeared to be missing beyond the sailors were the papers and instruments, which included navigational instruments and a lifeboat that had been cut free from the ship.

Which in of itself is a pretty like clearly defining element of the story, right? If the lifeboat has been, you know, cut away from the ship, like immediately kind of clear what happened, right? Well, it depends how many crew there are. Well, I think around 10. 10 crew. Yeah, I think it was rather small. I'd have to, it's referred to later on. Mystery solved. Then thank you for shooting into this episode of Red Fit. The lifeboat is gone. Quick wasn't it? Yeah.

I wonder why. Leave that. In true Red Thread tradition, leave that very obvious point that completely nullifies the last three hours until the very last sentence. Well, maybe a ghost took the lifeboat and sailed off with it. We don't know. Yes, we'll carry on to find out. I mean, but the question still remains of like what caused them to use the lifeboat, for example. So...

Yeah, that's true. When the investigating crew checked the ship's logbook, they found that the last entry was dated November 5th at 5 a.m., a full nine days before the ship was found by Morehouse and his crew. There were no signs of violence or foul play, with the only evidence of something being amiss being the slight maintenance issues that had stemmed from the ship not being looked after by its crew for about a week now.

Morehouse decided to sail the ship to Gibraltar, which is a British overseas territory around Spain's south coast, where they would then meet a British vice-admiralty court in an attempt to figure out what had happened. This became, and still is, one of sailing's greatest mysteries. What happened to the Mary Celeste and its crew 152 years ago? That's where it clicked for me. 152 years ago. That's so fucking long.

Like when you hear 1800s, it doesn't seem that long in human history to your brain. But then when you think about in the context of 150 years, that's such a long time. Yeah. What's also really impressive about it as well is the fact that this guy is

Like just the level of sophistication and bureaucracy that must have existed to keep these entities going back then, you've got to give them credit for. Because it was 150 years ago and they're talking about a guy that knew that this ship existed, should have been at its destination, you know, a week ago or whatever. And then you have something where it's like, oh, okay, well, the protocol is if there is a missing ship, then you sail it over to meet a British Vice Admiralty Court.

Yeah, he knew where it was in Gibraltar as well. He knew the process that needed to be undertook in order to make this all legal and stuff.

Yeah, and then there would have been actually laws and institutions set up for this very specific odd circumstance. Yeah, quite incredible. Back when, like, you know, naval trade and stuff was paramount. I mean, I guess it still is in this day and age, but it was literally the global economy at that time is everything was, you know, transited via these ships. It was so important. Like, everyone was in on it, basically, so...

an enormous element of human history is owed to naval trade. Man, this is pathetic. Are we getting like lame and boomery and old now? I'm really interested in these old ships. I want to be a sailor now. Okay, I'm not going that far. I want to fuck in a boat. That's where we're going to have our honeymoon, Kira. It's going to be great. Just some old rickety boat on the way to a lighthouse. It's going to be beautiful. Romantic.

So chapter two, the Amazon, the Mary Celeste did not always bear that name, the Mary Celeste, as it had changed over the course of its history. In 1860, in the Nova Scotia village of Spencer's Island, Nova Scotia is in Canada, I believe, a local shipmaker by the name of Joshua Dewis first began construction on what would become the Mary Celeste. Dewis normally worked on small schooners, which is not a, I mean, it is a measurement of beer, but it also gets its namesake from, uh,

the size of the boat, which I believe schooners are one of the smallest boats or boat types. But he was beginning to expand his business as naval trade between the Americas and Europe was rapidly increasing. Spencer's Island was chosen as the construction port as it was abundant in timber and protected from harsh weather, which is pretty surprising to me because I looked at where Spencer's Island is on a map

And it is fairly north in Canada. Like, you know how you look at a map of Canada, right? And it's got that large bay that enters into the ocean towards the northern peninsula, basically. It's up there. It's up in that port. It's not on the coast or anything. It's like central Canada, but in that large bay section of Canada. And I thought that place would have been pretty fucking cold. I don't know.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I would imagine it would. But yeah, apparently this area was protected from harsh weather, which made it an optimal place to build boats. He struck up a deal with two brothers who owned most of the woodlands in the area, their names being Isaac and Jacob Spicer. They would supply the wood for one-eighth ownership of the first ship produced from Joshua Dewis' new venture.

Man, everyone, the bartering and trading and ownership back in those days must have been so exciting where you could just, you just like, cause you showed up at a place you now owned its forest and could use that forest as like a tool to then gain more wealth. It's like way more exciting.

Isn't it incredible? Yeah. I wish. Again, it's the age of exploration. And of course, a lot of that time period was taking rightful land owned by native groups and stuff and then co-opting it for your own.

you know, your own wealth. But regardless, like that age of exploration and discovery is probably like one, uh, yeah. One of the most exciting periods of human history. Surely. It'd have to be. Yeah, it really would. The period after that would have been one of the worst, I think. Well, one, it's a bit of a jump there, but, uh,

The Cold War? No, no, like the Age of Exploration would have been mad. The Cold War, yes, obviously. It goes wooden ships, nuclear age. But I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. The Age of Exploration would have been very fun.

Being the people setting up the colony afterwards would have been fucking hell on earth. And there's very few people that I envy less in human history. Trying to survive in those harsh conditions and make something from nothing. Way funner and more exciting to just find the place and get to put your name on it. Yeah, I know. That's way cooler. You get all the glory.

glory and you didn't do shit. You didn't do anything. You just, I suppose, okay, all right, you go back to Her Majesty's court and you just say like, oh yeah, there's actually a couple more islands in the Pacific there. That's it. That's it. And then you just get to go and have this mad Chad alpha life. That would have been their equivalent of being a

You know, like one of those guys that jumps out of planes wearing red bull gear. The really fun, endless dopamine addict things. Yeah. And then just sitting around with Charles Darwin capturing monkeys like it's Pokemon and then just like poking him. It'd be fun. We have such a colorful view of history. It was probably nothing like that. It probably was 90% like shitting on a boat and having to deal with that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Being lonely at a lighthouse. But yeah, I mean, the Age of Exploration version two could be coming up with obviously like space exploration. Are you going to throw your hat in that ring once that comes around? No, because I'm too much of a pussy. I am not the Red Bull guy that jumps out of a plane. So even if we were experiencing the Age of Exploration as it is now, the 1860s or whatever, the 1850s or so on, the 1700s, the 1800s, um,

You wouldn't be that guy, it sounds like. You would be the guy sitting at home in London being like, oh, man, they're having so much fun, but I'm too afraid to leave my little cobblestone street. My chimney suite business. Yeah. So, you know. Thanks for shattering the illusion, Jackson. Every single one of these, you've just shat on like an entire genre of romance novels up until very recently.

No, I agree. I get it. I get it. I would like to be an explorer back in the age of discovery. But I'm also a realist and I know that I wouldn't do it at the time. I'm too much of a pussy. It's true. It's true. We are. The keel, which is the long and low central structure that runs lengthwise through the ship, was laid first. In essence, it exists as the ship's backbone and foundation.

Kind of like the spine. They continued building the ship using a method called carvel built or carvel planking, which results in a tight, smooth surface. So there were no overlapping planks. It was brigantine rigged, meaning it had two mastered vessels rigged on the foremast with fore and aft sails on the main mast. So basically it had like two giant sail things. I think that's what that means. You know, two giant masts where the sails were adorned and then also sails from the front.

mast at the very front. So brigantines, it was 30 meters long and was 198.5 tons or 907 kilograms. Brigantines were well liked in the 1800s as they were fast and the maneuverability was good, making them very popular as cargo and trading vessels. This was the largest ship Joshua Dewis ever built. And once construction was finished, he named her the Amazon. Yeah, that's right. Not the Mary Celeste, the Amazon.

Marisol, I think, is a cooler name. Yeah, it's way better.

The YouTube video that I was watching that we'll mention the name of later, he was saying that it could be derived from like the strong Amazonian women, because obviously ships are named. After women. They're women. And that's what he might've got that name from. So Amazonian women, perhaps. But it's not confirmed. Okay. But what else could you get it from? Isn't that, that's it? Yeah. I mean, the Amazon river, which of itself is probably named after that as well.

Yeah. That's the source of all of it, surely. I mean, yeah, I guess. Okay, maybe you named it after the Amazon River. Yeah. You know what? I might even wager money that that guy didn't know that the Amazon River existed. Well, I was trying to think like how explored was South...

at the time. Well, and truly, they would have known about it. I mean, not him specifically. I was going to say, in general knowledge. Maybe he knew how to read, maybe he didn't. Well, I mean, I think sailors and stuff were pretty well read, weren't they? Because a lot of their jobs were writing reports and such.

Oh, really? Yeah. I thought it would just be the sea captain maybe that knew how to ride. Oh, yeah, sea captain. But I'm assuming that the guy building the boats was also pretty learned, surely. Yeah. I would think so. But yeah, I don't know for sure, I guess.

I mean, he named it the Amazon. I don't think he was talking about the company Amazon. That's for sure. Owned by a consortium of nine individuals. Yeah, if it was this day and age, it would be called like the Amazon Prime. Get seven days free access or something. Seven days free access. Sign up at my referral link on the bow of the ship.

You can find the QR code. Owned by a consortium of nine individuals with Dewis heading the owners, the Amazon was registered on May 18th, 1861 in Parsborough, which is a nearby village west of Spencer's Island in Cumberland County. Despite rumors, her first launch was seemingly successful. As seamless as it was initially, it began the beginning of an unlucky lifespan for the ship. Robert McLellan

MacLellan.

That's exactly like my grandfather, actually. Any kind of illness that he gets or sickness, he's like, a bit of fresh air will do it good. I'll just go stand outside for a bit, lay under the sun. And, I mean, he's still alive, so it's going to be true to some degree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that idea? What is that idea that the salty ocean air will fix any illness? It's such a man thing. It is a man thing, but it also does feel a bit...

I don't know. Just when you are out on the open ocean, it does, there's something it does. It's kind of like the opposite of smoking a cigarette, isn't it? The fresh air cleanses your respiratory system. Like it just cleans you out. Well, your nose feels cold, but in that sort of, yeah, good way. Maybe I'm just thinking of the mint fisherman's friend. I guess. I don't know. I just associate the sea with sickness in general. Like you get scurvy, seasickness, all that kind of stuff.

So I've never associated it with health. I guess it's just because scurvy and seasickness and probably better than just sitting around in London. Yeah, true. Oh, yeah. If they're coming from London or other cities of the time, for sure. I'm guessing so.

After the timber was loaded and the ship set off, McLellan suddenly developed a bad case of pneumonia, which cannot be cured with salty ocean air, which prompted the crew to head back to Spencer's Island. One of the Spicer brothers housed McLellan in his sickness, but he unfortunately died not long later. McLellan's body was loaded onto the Amazon and was taken back to his hometown, where his grieving new wife and even newer widow was waiting. Ha ha ha!

Yeah, so Kira, you were saying before this, when we were talking before the recording, that that means that the very first delivery of the ship was a dead body, basically.

The body of its dead captain. Which is pretty, pretty cool. I could see how if I was more of a ghost believer, I could see how this could potentially mean that the ship would take on a curse, perhaps, if its very first delivery was of a dead body. Pretty cool. Anything to add?

No. Okay. A man named John Parker took over the role of captain and continued the plan to sail the vessel to England as it traveled. You've really got nothing to add there? You don't think that's cool or anything? Well, yeah, it's pretty... Look...

I think that I'm more on board with the idea that ghosts exist than you are, Jackson. And I really do think that there is a streak of... Well, why wouldn't you think that's cool, then? Because it's not as surprising to me. I think you're sitting there and you're thinking, well, yeah, but maybe it's ghosts. And I'm thinking, yeah, it's definitely ghosts. Anyway, let's get back to the very interesting point of this. How many sails did this ship have, you know? It's on that same level to me, I think. Yeah.

We've got to get the backstory of the boat first so we can build character development so people care about the boat before it's taken from them. This is now a structure. Believe me, there is nothing facetious about my last comment. I'm very interested in this ship for reasons that are freaking me out because it honestly makes me feel old caring about this. But it's very interesting. Yeah, I'm sick of pretending that boats aren't cool. Boats are cool. Yeah, me too. Fuck it. I'm...

Actually, modern boats aren't cool. I'm taking a very firm stand on this. Not to sound like a communist or anything, but they're so capitalist. They're just giant steel. They don't even look cool. They're just steel giant container ships, basically. That's all boats are these days. Or giant Disney cruise ships.

And then the whole time you're reading about the Mary Celeste getting created by that Canadian guy looking at the pictures and all you're thinking the whole time is, oh, they had style back then. The ships look so much cooler then. Look at all the sails and stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's so beautiful. I bet you they just had one of those naked women carved into the front of it. There's probably art pieces in this. I mean, there are art pieces.

They are art pieces. That's why they're so treasured. Even to this day, collectors and antique owners... Look at the painting right here of the Mary Celeste from 1861. You don't see any paintings of these container ships. Yeah, that's true, actually. Now that I think about it, no one has ever oil-painted a tanker. Yeah. There's no kind of beauty to it now. It's just industrialized. It's gross. It is.

A man named John Parker took over the role of captain and continued the plan to sail the vessel to England. As it traveled out of the Bay of Fundy... Is that a typo? Or was that actually called the Bay of Fundy? That's his actual name. That is incredible. I want to move to the Bay of Fundy. Where is that? Sounds alright. Sounds like an amusement park. It's still in the Canada-Nova Scotia region. Oh, okay. Still hasn't moved, eh?

Located before the ship would enter the Atlantic Ocean. The answer was right there. It was forced to anchor as it had tangled with fishing wires and sustained damage. Not a massive issue. And a few days later, it set off again and successfully made it to London where they dropped off the shipment of timber. The next step on the route for the Amazon was Portugal. This time, however, as they set off from the port, the ship collided with a British brig. The brig began to quickly sink. A brig is...

smaller than a brigantine, I think. Or is it larger? It's one of the two. It's definitely either smaller or larger.

Okay. It says bricks are generally larger. Okay, so larger. So wait, so it crashed into a larger ship and caused it to sink. Okay. Damn. And the crew were forced to evacuate onto the Amazon, which fared slightly better. There were no casualties, but the Amazon again needed to anchor for repair in a town called Dover before it finally made its way to Lisbon. Now in November 1861, the Amazon went forth to Marseilles. Marseilles? Marseilles?

It's French. What is it, Jordan? Marseille. Marseille? I'm going to guess. Oh, you don't know for sure? I thought you'd know your culture. Yeah, it's Marseille. All right. Marseille in France. While here, the only known painting of the Amazon, and as such, the Mary Celeste, was created. While unconfirmed, the creator of this painting is most likely Honor Pellegrin, a well-known and respected maritime artist who lived in Marseille. And that's where we get that beautiful painting from. The painting that I actually love.

It's very beautiful. It is. It was so much cooler back then. Now, if you want to find a painting, it's always like furry art or something. No paintings are ever made anymore without some kind of sexual element. At least in my circles. I've never seen a painting. What a hard and fast rule. It has to be furry pornography. Must be really uncomfortable doing art class in high school, hey? Yeah.

It's not art unless I get hard while looking at it, I guess. It's not art. This is not. The following years for the Amazon were uneventful, thankfully, with the captaincy falling to William Thompson in 1863.

It continued on with its work sailing across the Atlantic Ocean on various trading assignments. Several years into its service, however, Thompson received a letter from the owners of the ship back in Spencer's Island, that consortium. The ship was to be held at a port in Halifax in Nova Scotia while a replacement captain was on the way to take leadership of the ship. Thompson had gradually become disliked, hence the desire for a replacement, and he did not take the news well. A

A crew member aboard the Amazon at the time was George Spicer, a son of one of the ship's owners. Thompson kicked him off the ship and began to set sail against the orders he had been given. So he took it for ransom, Kira, basically? Like he hijacked it? Yeah, kind of. Wow, that's cool. He didn't really like... It wasn't really for ransom. He just...

To me, it seems like he was like, oh, fuck it. Yeah, kind of like retribution. Just as an insult, almost. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. The ship held no cargo as he sailed it up to Cape Breton. This was a big issue for the ship as the insurance on the ship did not allow it to go this way during a certain time of the year, past November 1st, as the weather and the seas were too dangerous. Thompson stopped the ship at Glace Bay and due to the horrific winds, the Amazon ended up becoming beached.

The consortium of owners heard word that the Amazon was so damaged that it would need a lot of repairs, which would be very expensive. And due to the breaching, yeah, the breaching of insurance contracts, there would now be no financial help from insurance. The Amazon was abandoned in October of 1867. The neglected and abandoned ship was brought by a man named Alexander McBean, cool name, who lived at Glace Bay, who registered it in Sydney. That's where you're from.

Yeah. Yeah, in Nova Scotia, yes. This happened within weeks. It's a deep move. That's incredible. Yeah, a move from Australia. Well, no, from Nova Scotia to Australia. Far out. The more you know, eh? You can only, like names can only be used that way once and done. This happened within weeks of the ship being abandoned, which many have highlighted as potentially suspicious. YouTube channel Part-Time Explorer said,

explains in his video titled ghost ship mary celeste the 150 year mystery that in order to register a ship to a new port at the time it needed to be in seaworthy condition in a matter of a few weeks the ship was registered to a new port unregistered and then again sold the question here is what was the true condition of the amazon at this time it appears that there may have been a sort of scam being run here perhaps by thompson himself kira do you believe this

Yes. Oh, you do? You sound very sure. What do you mean specifically by scheme? Like, what's the scheme he's running? The owners of the ship were told that it was basically beyond repair. They needed to abandon it.

um so they didn't come and collect the ship and the insurance couldn't help them but thompson ended up selling like the ship was then sold and re-registered and sold where it was abandoned so it wasn't actually in as bad condition as he told the owners who abandoned it but so so thompson sold the ship

I think Thompson got the money for it. Wow. He wasn't even the owner. He was just a captain. Okay. Well, yeah, if Thompson was given the money for it and he was the one that put it in the condition where it was, you know, beached in the first place, then yeah, he probably did run a scam there and just parked it somewhere and said, yeah, I beached it. It's fucked. Don't go check up the road. Don't go try to look at it or anything. It's completely destroyed.

That's incredible. Just being a scam artist back in the time that men just wore wigs and then you'd say, well, you're a man of your honor. I don't think there's any... I mean, but to be honest, scamming back then involved a lot of effort. He had to actually sail out of there and beach it to some degree and hide the evidence and all that. Scams are way easier now. You just make a Facebook post with a link that grabs passwords and stuff.

Damn, that's true. It's honestly a lot of the time where you sit there and you think now sucks. And then you say something like that. And then you think, wow, yeah, being a scam artist is way better now. I'm actually considering it as a career option, even as you speak. It's so easy. Yeah. That's really hard. You're right. It's actually to the degree where it gets to that point of, well,

It's so ingenious that he deserves the money for it. Exactly. That was a lot of effort that he went through. He may as well have the money. Why not? Credit where credit is due.

Chapter three, the Mary Celeste. So Alexander McBean sold the ship to a businessman in the area named John Beatty. He owned it for a few months before he sold it as a wrecked vessel. It was then sold as scrap to an American mariner named Richard W. Haynes, who purchased the ship for $1,750. No, sorry, $1,750, not $17.50. Far out. Inflation is really key. I mean, even $1,750. $1,750.

That's a massive amount of inflation. Inflation has kicked in since then. What the hell? You can buy an entire ship. A large ship too. For what? Like less than a massage chair. Yeah, exactly. My computer costs more than that. Yeah. Yeah. So he purchased a ship for 17, I don't know, 1750.

No, 1,750. I'm having a stroke here. At a public auction in 1868. There's too many numbers. I hate numbers. Haynes registered the ship in New York and not wanting to pay the import fees, he argued that money spent restoring the ship, which was way more than what he had paid for, basically made it a new ship. With himself as the captain, Haynes renamed the boat the Mary Celeste. See, everyone's running a scam back then. This is great. I love this time period. Wow. Who'd have thought that sea traveling folk would be dodgy?

But it's just... It's so...

Of that ilk, now that I think about it. I feel like it's shifted since then. If one piece has taught me anything. It's shifted from back then being like these kinds of scam artists of the seas, basically. Once cars were invented, they became like used car salesmen. You know, like they shifted into that kind of field where now it's all just about automobiles and scamming people in that field. I think so. That's a really good comparison. The industry has changed dramatically.

Scenes changed. Haynes did not prove to be a good owner of the Mary Celeste. He was drowning in debt and after a short amount of time, the ship was seized by creditors. It then ended up in the hands of James H. Winchester, who I know from the Winchester Rifles, who himself was born in Nova Scotia like the Mary Celeste. Winchester suffered his own drama as Haynes' way around the import fees came back to haunt him. Good use of the word haunt there, bringing back the ghost element of the story. Yeah.

A surveyor blackmailed Winchester in an attempt to try and obtain cash from him for the import fees, threatening the man with prison time if he didn't pay. After pushing back, the case went to court and Winchester won. The feeling of victory was short-lived, however, as soon the now rotting structure of the Mary Celeste was beginning to show itself. The ship needed a complete start over. In today's money, it would cost nearly $300,000 to make it seaworthy once more. The Mary Celeste was rebuilt, though, with some upgrades and modifications.

making the ship just under 100 tons heavier than it originally weighed. Winchester was unable to pay for all of this out of his own pocket and was forced to sell one third interest in the ship to a man named Benjamin Spooner Briggs. Cool name. Oh man, I loved names back then. It's so much better. Benjamin Briggs. Spooner Briggs. Benjamin Briggs was born in Plymouth County, Massachusetts on the 24th of April, 1835. A seaman,

and master mariner, Briggs was a respected workman who spent the majority of his life around water. Massachusetts, where's that? Is that around water? Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's directly under like New York, right? That kind of area? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, makes sense.

Yeah, a devoted religious and family man. Sorry, can I just say to anybody listening right now, because I know that you're basically 100% American, I am so sorry for our lack of knowledge of your country. It's incredible. I thought that just an entire diet of consuming nothing but Friends and Seinfeld when I was a kid would be all I needed to know. It's the only education you need. But then basic questions like, how many stars are on the flag again? Like 600? Yeah, 600. We'll move on. Yeah.

Hey, we knew where it was eventually. It's just, it takes a second. It took us a moment. Yeah. It took us a moment. Yeah. To be fair, to be fair, I think if you asked Americans where like Idaho was, they'd have to think for a second as well. Even Americans.

Maybe that was a bad example. Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. I forgot that they basically have zero geography. It's like they don't learn it at school or something like that. I remember the old David Letterman days where they'd ask randoms on the street where Canada was. Yeah. And they'd point to Mexico. Yeah.

It is pretty funny. So good. Especially if you ask them where like, I don't know, South Australia was, which in of itself is like pretty direct, directly clear. Point to Darwin. Yeah, I think it would be a bit of confusion. Yeah, not saying they're stupid or anything. Like we have the same thing with other countries. It's just we're so insular and granular about our knowledge.

A devoted religious and family man, he had a wife named Sarah Elizabeth Cobb and two children, a son named Arthur, who was eight years old at the time, and a daughter named Sophia Matilda, who was around two years old. Briggs wanted his family to come along on the ship's first trip to Italy, with the exception of Arthur, who was busy at school, and so they opted to leave him with family. That's fucking cruel. Like, hey, we're going to Italy.

You have to stay here, though. Look after the house, eight-year-old Arthur. That's got to suck. That's mean. Apparently, they were sad about it. Like, they wanted him to come, but he was in school. You couldn't take him out of school for the trip? I guess it is a long trip at the time. So there were seven crew members along with the family on the voyage. The first mate, who was the second in command of the captain, his name was Albert Richardson, and the second mate was a man named Andrew Hickman.

Geiling? There's no two L's. They both sound like real estate agents to me. Yeah, true. They did Geiling and Richardson. Yeah, or a law firm maybe. Yeah, law firm, but I wouldn't go to them. They had a newly married cook named Edmund Head, and then for the crew...

What a dumb name. Such a shit name. Edmund Head? You don't like that? Edmund Head. No. Why not? Whose last name is Head? You haven't met my family. George Foot. George Foot.

I do like a little pause of hesitation. I was trying to think of a first name. I knew I wanted to go with foot. I just couldn't think of an actual first name. I know, but it did make it sound like you were genuinely trying to make up a body part. A name. Just a name. Just trying to do be or something. Trying to make it believable. Mr. Mr. Pancreas. Pancreas.

Oh man, what's happening? This is a mess. I don't know. Hang on. So yeah, George, sorry, Edmund Head. Yeah, not George. He's not actually part of the story. You know what this podcast really is? You know what this podcast really is? It should just be renamed Ranking Historical Names. It's all we ever do. Yeah. What is your favorite historical name?

Oh, there was some classics that were in the Hollywood episode. That was great. Oh, yeah. They're always so good. And now, I mean, in a hundred years, we're going to be looking back at like, what's like celebrity names as indication of what names were like now, you know, like someone named their daughter like Apple or something. That was like 10 years ago.

That was longer than 10 years ago. Was it? I don't know. I honestly reckon Apple is probably 36 now. I wouldn't be surprised. No, that's... What's her name? The lead singer of Coldplay's daughter. I can't remember her name, but she must be in her teens. Yeah, it was like 15 years ago, let's say.

Yeah, stupid name. That will be the Edmund Head of our time. Well, yeah, and then you've got like Elon Musk's son, X Alpha Sigma times three. X Alpha Sigma. Times three. Sounds like a robot already. Yeah, we're going to get done with that. Dude, I am legally changing my son's first name to Alpha and last name Sigma. That is Alpha Sigma. Alpha Sigma.

The chosen one. Everyone will look and bow at him. The modern day Jesus will be born with the name Alpha Sigma.

I bet you would actually look back at that in history and think like, well, he was clearly a boss. Yeah, he was the chosen one. Unless you're born with that name, like Alpha Sigma or something, and then you are just the most fucking loser dude ever that's ever existed and you bring shame to your name. That's a lot to live up to. I think that that name is so alpha that even if you are a beater,

It doesn't matter. The name is so Alpha that it carries you up. What if your only interaction with Alpha Sigma was you met him and he pissed his pants in the first meeting and then ran off crying? Would you really still think that that guy was Alpha Sigma? Yes! I'm telling you, the name just wipes out anything after that. Okay, fair enough.

He could be in a wheelchair, crying, pissing his pants, talking about, you know, like furry conventions that he wants to go to, but it doesn't have disability access. And I would be sitting there just being like, what a fucking alpha, you know? Like...

Alpha man ever purely because of the name. It would change all of those things retroactively to now be alpha as well for you. Like you'd want to piss your pants and go to furry conventions now just to be an alpha. Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. Look, a name I think that you shouldn't

I am actually quite superstitious about this to the level that I am with my believability of ghosts. I honestly do think that a name can shape your personality. I honestly think that there's like an element of that. You sound like those people that believe like numbers and stuff.

Yeah, I'm a numerologist for now. Numerologist, yeah. But guys, don't you think that a lot of the time you do meet people, not all the time, obviously, there's going to be exceptions to this, but a lot of the time you do meet someone and it's like, that is a fucking James right there. That's a dead set stock standard James.

And then like a lot of the time, like, I don't know, you meet a chick that's called like Ariel or something like that. And it's like, well, of course you were going to be a stripper, you know, like this is all way. You were predestined. Or that was just a stripper name, Jordan. You just met a stripper. Yeah, look, I'm pretty stupid. You don't know for sure. What if you find out her name's like something regal, actually regal, like Elizabeth or something, then it doesn't work. Oh, totally. Yeah. Then it doesn't work at all.

And that completely shoots down my entire theory. If there is even one name that is off base, but I think that even one, even one and I'm completely screwed. All right. Let us know in the comments if you subscribe to Jordan's theory. Do you wish to subscribe to my newsletter? Yeah. You could create a religious faith using this to do with names. Name-or-ology. Name-or-ology.

So the crew itself included also two brothers, Volkert and Boz Lorenzen. Arian Martin. That's a sick name. Sorry. Now we're going to have to go on a 10 minute tangent about Boz Loren. Boz Loren is more alpha than Alpha Sigma. I'm fucking calling my fucking, I'm calling my kid that. I've changed it. Alpha Sigma is out of the, it's two beta in comparison to Boz Loren. It's not just Boz Loren, it's Boz Lorenzen.

I don't like the Z. I like my Boz Loren. Because it sounds like Ralph Lauren. Yeah, true. That is pretty bollard. That is bollard. Ralph Lauren. Yeah. All right. As well as Arianne Martins and Gottlieb Gutschall. And then, of course, Family Cat. Which is not named. Yeah, no. I guess. Or maybe Boz Lorenzen was the Family Cat. We don't know for sure. What would that extremely bald celebrity that we were laughing about before think?

Unbelievable. Oh, yeah, the fucking Jackson Galaxy. Yeah, Jackson Galaxy. Actually, I do remember the cat had a nickname from the toddler that was on board, and it was Poo-a-poo. Poo-a-poo. There you go. I don't know why. That's a nice name. I like that name. What kind of life would a kid with that name lead, Jordan, in your name-or-ology? Yeah, Poo-a-poo. Poo-a-poo. Poo-a-poo.

Poopy poo. The ship sat in New York for weeks before it was set to leave for Italy on November 5th. Not far from them was another ship, which we talked about previously, the Dei Gratia, which was very similar to the Mary Celeste. They also had the same sailing plan, with the only change being to leave around eight days after the Mary Celeste itself. The

The Briggs family were living in the Mary Celeste before it set sail. It was like a houseboat, I guess. And it became very homely. When it was time for the Mary Celeste to depart, the ship was loaded with 1,701 barrels of alcohol. That is very homely. That sounds like my home. My family home.

When it was time for them to depart, yeah, the ship was loaded with 1,701 barrels of alcohol. Storing alcohol can actually be quite dangerous with the liquid and also its fumes being flammable. Like some sort of forewarning for what was to come, once the ship left its pier in New York, the bad weather forced the Mary Celeste to anchor for two days off Staten Island.

until the weather cleared. When it did, they set off course once more. When the Dei Gratia herself set sail eventually, they did not have one single day of good weather on the duration of the trip over to Europe. Encountering horrible storms and seas that would frequently throw the ship around. And remember, that ship left roughly around the same time as the Mary Celeste, like a few days after the Mary Celeste. So the Mary Celeste

obviously would have also suffered through the same kind of weather they continued on though uh pushing through the rough weather until they reached the azores at the start of december sailing north around the islands the mary celeste on the other hand traveled south of the islands they would eventually end up around the same area but as the day gracia continued they saw the unmanned and directionalist mary celeste in front of them uh lingering uh just in the waters basically the

600 kilometers off its original course, which is not a good sign. Chapter four, the ship of mysteries. First mate of the Dei Gratia, Olivia, sorry, Oliver Devoe, along with second mate, John Bright and crew member, John Johnson. Come on. It's not a name. John Johnson. Yeah.

That's cruel. I hate when people do that. This is another one of Jackson's made-up names. He just put that in the script as a decoy. John Johnson. Come on. So they were tasked with boarding the Mary Celeste and reporting back on the status of the ship. Previous attempts at signaling the boat had failed and they could see no crew anywhere on board. DeVoe and Wright climbed on board the Mary Celeste while Johnson stayed on the rowboat.

At first, the two noticed that the sails were in poor condition, with some entirely missing from the masts. On the port side of the boat, which is the left front area, part of the railing was gone. Even though water was pooling in the holds, the pumps were in working order. As they continued to look around, they found most windows had been covered with bores, likely in an attempt to shield from the bad weather. Most things, however, were drenched in water due to the skylight on the ship being completely open."

The belongings of everyone on board were still there in their respective spots. Their beds were unmade and obviously slept in. The boat still housed all the food and water for the rest of the trip. Do we actually know if it was the cat there? No, there was no sign of the cat. Aww. Yeah. Even the cat was a ghost. Yep, they were all ghosts at the end of the day.

Okay, well, that's quite mysterious. Sorry, go on. Yeah, I mean, surely if they did leave in the rowboat, for example, would they have taken the cat? I guess if you could, yeah. I guess, yeah, maybe. It would also suggest that it's quite calm and that there was no pirates aboard because obviously a cat would... Well, maybe the pirates took the cat.

Ah, yeah, okay. And now it's living a life on the seven seas as the cat captain. Who knows? When they checked the Mary Celeste logbook, the last entry was November 24th. The ship had a chalkboard where they would write notes throughout the day that would then be logged into the official logbook in the evening. The chalkboard had the beginning of the 25th of November, meaning that whatever occurred on the Mary Celeste likely happened on the 25th of November. Unfortunately...

Unfortunately, we don't know what was written on the chalkboard detailing the morning of November 25th as Devo erased it after commandeering the ship. Why the fuck would you do that? What a classic great detective that guy was. Yeah. Why would you even do that? I don't understand what the impetus behind that decision would have been. Like, fuck your writing. I don't want it on board. Like, why? He took it over. He used it himself, but he didn't even think to preserve it.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yes. If he had to sail. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. If he had to sail several days and he needed somewhere to write reports and stuff himself, probably. Yeah. Okay.

Most of the navigational tools and instruments, as well as the ship's papers, were missing. A sheathed sword was found under Briggs' bed, two hatches were open, and the ship's clock was strangely upside down and had stopped. A clear evidence of ghost tampering in my opinion. Yeah, me too. I think so too. That's ghost. Ghost hate clocks. That's a ghost. Classic ghost behavior. Yeah, putting random things upside down. In fact, not only is it a ghost, it's clearly a poltergeist, if we're going to define it.

Yes, because it's involved in mischief. Is that why? Yeah, yeah. Poltergeists like to throw things around and stuff. They're more of a prankster type of ghost. Okay. Well, I think that's an open and shut case. Yeah, we can end the episode here.

A single wife boat was gone with Devoe and Wright, which they assumed was used by the crew. The information was brought to Captain Morehouse where they discussed what to do next. Although this was an unusual mystery, Morehouse and his crew saw potential when they looked at the Mary Celeste. The law of the sea, which is such a fucking hilarious start of the sentence. The law of the sea. I love that. I thought there were no laws on the sea. That's the entire point of the sea.

It sounds like it was really regulated, man. It sounds like it was more regulated than land. Well, no, I think it's like boats and stuff. Like you have to, you had to register their own stuff. But once you were out in the sea, I think there was no law of the sea. And it was more like of a spoken law between sailors, basically. It's more the maritime law. Yeah.

Wait, so what's the point? Can't you go out and like literally do illegal gambling on the ocean because it's not under anyone's jurisdiction? International waters. Yeah, international waters. I think it's more to do with like the actual vessels, their sailing, what they carry, their insurance, you know,

The goods, things like that. Which emanates from the ports. Like the ports probably is where the law takes place. Like you could probably go out and illegal gamble, but if you brought like the money back to a port, then they'd probably have an issue with it, I assume, based on local law. I don't know. I don't know how fucking law works on the water.

It's ridiculous. Yeah, we don't even know how it works on land. True. But I'm telling you now, it sounds like that there was actually a lot more to it than, oh, yeah, you can open up a casino out there. Yeah, surely. Do whatever you want. Have monkey fights, whatever. Yeah, I think like, okay, so what if it's like this? You go out on the ocean in, you know, open waters or whatever, and you kill someone. You've murdered someone.

It's legal there. But now you have to live the rest of your life on the ocean because as soon as you go back, they will arrest you for killing someone. I suppose that's it. It's pretty hard to have police boats back then just patrolling. I suppose they had Navy ships would have been the closest thing to police. Are there any serial killers that just live out in the ocean? That just roam around the ocean? Yeah, I mean, who's going to stop you?

So the law of the sea dictated that someone who recovered an abandoned ship or wreckage would be permitted to receive a share of what was aboard. In a letter to his wife, Devo clearly wrote that, quote, I shall be well paid for the Mary Celeste, end quote.

Morehouse left the Mary Celeste to Deveaux and two crewmen, tasking them with getting it to Gibraltar. It didn't take long for them to get the Mary Celeste in working order again. They faced more bad weather, but persevered through the trip. They arrived at Gibraltar one day after the daygrass year, and when they arrived, the ship was seized from them due to a necessary formal investigation.

So it was recovered. We've got a picture here as well of the little sword. Kind of cool. It's pretty small for a sword, isn't it?

Is that not small? I don't know if it's just the angle of the picture. Yeah, look at it. It's a little child sword. Yeah, that's nothing. That's embarrassing. A knife. It probably did belong to the child. There was a child on board, right? Like a toddler? A two-year-old. Yeah, it's probably their sword. Their sword to protect themselves against pirates.

Chapter five, we come to the theories. So, of course, a ship found adrift in the Atlantic Ocean without its crew and with no concrete evidence to suggest how it found itself in that position would, of course, in turn, create some incredible theories. So, it's time to speculate. Jordan, give it to me. What do you reckon? I honestly... Look...

I'm really banking on the ghost one. Come on. All right. Look, it doesn't seem like pirates to me. It's not giving pirate vibes. It's not giving pirate vibes.

I will admit that the lifeboat being cut adrift does somewhat put a spanner in the works of the ghost theory. Although... But as we have established, it is a poltergeist. Exactly. And maybe it did that to cover its tracks. Poltergeists are known to disconnect lifeboats to make it look more suspicious than it actually is. They do it all the time. There you go. I've never heard that before in my life, but I will trust a man that is so good at trivial pursuits and have this very rare knowledge. LAUGHTER

The classification of poltergeists. They're very well documented. All right. So luckily for you, our first category here. Oh, actually, Kira, do you have any idea personally? I guess as a researcher, you kind of know already what the most likely theory is. Yes, I know what the most likely theory is, but I like to think it's a giant squid. Do you have a different theory to the most likely?

No, it made a lot of sense to me. But also, somewhere I read that it could have even been a swimming race gone wrong. That one made me laugh. What's the idea behind that one? Like they went out and did a little swimming race around the boat and then it just went very bad.

Why would you do that? They all decided to just swim around the boat. That's the idea. At once. There wasn't really much to the theory, understandably why, but it did make me laugh. That's fucking stupid. We're all going to do a swimming tournament around the boat and then they all drowned because they couldn't get back on board. How could you come up with a theory that's stupider than ghosts? Honestly. That's so dumb. It's so dumb. But I believe it.

wholeheartedly. So that's your theory that you're stupid. Kira found my theory online, it sounds like. LAUGHTER

So the ship, number one for our theories, is obviously the supernatural because we've got to put the most compelling and thought-provoking and also true thing first, and that is supernatural. The ship was in good condition and all the food was still there and the cargo was intact. There were no signs of a struggle and the crew had seemingly simply vanished. The obvious question was then raised, were they abducted by aliens? Hmm.

Will it be answered? Are aliens supernatural? I don't think aliens are supernatural, are they? Not really. But I mean, that's also a possibility. I'm surprised you didn't bring up aliens, Jordan. Well, I mean, you know, I don't think that everything that is inexplicable is because of aliens. Well, then you're not a true believer, I'm afraid. Yeah.

I guess the raw sense of the word, I'm not, yeah. Because I think that... When you put it like that, it does sound like a religion. Maybe there's some other explanation for the pyramids being built other than aliens. There's nothing that makes sense here other than they were taken by aliens. With the infamous history of the ship too, it could have been haunted by the ghost of the previous captain who had died from pneumonia. Finally, we're getting to some serious answers.

I'm sick of all these jovial, stupid theories about swimming. There's no evidence to do like with the alien angle, but at least they put a bit more thought into the, uh, the ghost aspect here with it being connected to a previous captain who had died. So I appreciate that.

Yeah, but why do you want to kill them all? Just have some friends. No, no. The haunting could have led the crew to the crew going crazy. Yes. Where they then chose to jump out of this boat out of fear, I guess, due to the curse. Which would explain the swimming theory as well. So this is ticking a lot of boxes at once. If you want to go for whatever, does this count as evidence? Yes. The thing that strings the most down.

things together this is absolutely evidence is just us saying that there was a previous captain who died from pneumonia on the boat therefore ghost yeah i mean this is sort of just like if you are uh subscribing to the captain with pneumonia fear pneumonia theory you are buying into several theories at once and therefore probably have a higher chance of being correct it's a package not a bad way to go it's a package deal

Yeah, so the ghost forced them to have a swimming competition, I guess. He was the umpire. He did it. He was waiting at the finish line.

But so, yeah, of course, we can't ignore the creatures of the deep sea. No, we can't. However, the chance that a Kraken may have attacked the boat at the time, while more believable than now, is it more believable than now? I don't know why. Why is that true? Why is that just a statement of fact? They've gone extinct now, of course.

As we all know, the modern Kraken is more shy. What? Why is that more likely? Why? It was only active in the 1800s. That's the other thing as well. I think the 1800s wasn't when it was most active, was it? Was it just like in Nordic times? Yeah, no, just specifically the 1800s. Viking cages.

Because it's just closer to Vikings than now. Okay. It's like, while more believable than, Jesus, than now is probably due to like overfishing, I guess. We overfish the Krakens to a lower population, maybe. Yeah.

Yeah, but the chances of this being true is still rather slim considering the fact that there was no evident damage to the ship and considering the fact that the crew would have likely not used the escape raft in event of Kraken due to the escape raft being considerably smaller than the vessel itself. If an enormous Kraken was attacking them, I mean, that is true. I like how you've really put a lot of thought into debunking this one. It's all to do with the Kraken. Oh, really? All right, let's take this one to its logical conclusion.

Yeah, well, think about it.

Think about it. If you are getting attacked by a Kraken, why would you then get in the smaller ship next to the ship? That's what I'm saying. I get it. I know if you think about it, that makes a lot of sense. It's just funny that you guys have thought about it to that extent. There was no other point before that where you thought, no, no, we'll key this one out to the bitter end. Well, as Kira said, it's less believable then than now, but I mean, there's still a chance, Jordan.

Man, all right, the Kraken one, I've got to say...

The swimming one is more likely than that. This is pathetic as well that I'm even sitting here thinking about this on a logical level. But I'm just like, why would the boat look fine after a crack in attack? Exactly. There'd be a bit of damage. I don't think it's intelligent enough to mess up the beds to leave evidence. It's there for a day, like cleaning up after it. I know octopi are smart. Yeah.

It's got like, it's one of its tentacles is holding like a mop. It's mopping the deck to get rid of its fingerprints. It's just over the side. It was the one that wiped out the chalkboard. It wore gloves as well, so it left no fingerprints. Ever so slightly turned the clock upside down. Yeah. To make it look like a poltergeist. It's smart enough to frame ghosts.

There are also various theories that bear no standing in reality, unlike the Kraken one, I guess, like that some kind of mania befell the crew and they all jumped into the sea, that one of the crew had murdered everyone on board in a manic fit as well. Obviously, as with most things, the more colorful theories lack any level of evidence or, in fact, rationality.

Yeah, honestly, there would definitely be signs of murder if that was the case. There would definitely be signs of cracking too, if that were the case. Oh, yeah. Actually, wait, maybe there wouldn't be signs of murder. You just chuck everyone overboard. Yeah, but there's a boat full of like 10 people and one murderer. There's going to be some kind of evidence of a struggle. Unless he wanted to kill himself as well.

Yeah, but I'm saying in the process of killing 10 people, surely there's going to be some evidence left behind of that. But also the weather was terrible and rain was just pouring down. What if after a few days, blood washed away and... Yeah, I guess, maybe. But okay, so the idea is that he killed 10 people and then killed himself. He used the lifeboat to, I don't know, throw something? Yeah, maybe he just took the lifeboat and left and then sunk in the weather. Hmm.

I mean, it's not too unbelievable, is it, really, at the end of the day? Like, if there was only one weapon on board, like one sword that he used, then why would he leave the sword, I guess? Maybe he took another one with him. Oh, maybe that wasn't the sword that he used. I don't know. I'm just thinking of ideas.

Short thing, no, no way. If you are stabbing everyone, there's going to be evidence of that for sure. I just think that you go, oh, no, someone fell overboard and then someone runs over to the... Oh, no, now two people are overboard. So you get 10 and then you take the lifeboat. True. You can make it look like an accident.

Just keep pushing people over until you and only one other person is left on the boat and they're like, where did everyone go? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, but I think they went overboard. And then you use the tried and true method, they're all overboard. Yeah. And then you're done. Damn. Okay.

Jesus.

Jesus fucking Christ. Why wouldn't he kill someone far out? $1 million of alcohol? What was this, Prohibition or something? Why were they smuggling so much alcohol? Or I guess trading alcohol. I guess it's always just been in demand, hasn't it? Yeah, I guess. I mean, hey, here's a little piece of trivia for all you Americans. That was our official currency for many a decade. We were the rum colonies for a little while there.

Yeah, so it was insured that that money was insured by the Atlantic Mutual Insurance Company of New York. While they may have had time to clean up any visible signs of a violent fight or struggle, there was no evidence found whatsoever to support this theory. Some have theorized that the Dei Gratia intentionally captured the ship to take it for the sweet salvage money from the alcohol on board. Because remember, the law of the sea said that if you recover a ship, you're owed a portion of the salvage money from it.

So that could be a theory. Yeah. But we know without a doubt that the day grass, day grass year left after the Mary Celeste and it was significantly slower. Jesus fucking Christ.

And it was a significantly slower ship. So this simply could not have happened without something on board than Mary Celeste putting the ship in a position for it to be boarded in the first place. So that means they needed someone on board to kill everyone and then leave it stranded there in the first place. Or not going anywhere. Yeah. But what if, as was first suggested, the Briggs family was on board with the scam and worked with the Dei Gratia crew? So,

So the people, the family that ran the boat, basically. What if they wanted to make it look like an accident? So they could also get a portion of the money from the alcohol. Well, that certainly would have been very mean to poor Arthur, who was now orphaned and didn't get the memo that his family was still out there sipping Mai Tais on some Pacific Island beach without him with their insurance fraud money. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty clear cut, right? Yeah, Arthur was left with his grandparents still at school, didn't get the memo.

So yeah, I guess that makes that theory less believable. People also point to the sword as indication that there was foul play, but there was no evidence on the sword to suggest that it had been used to harm others. Yeah, so there was no evidence of blood on the sword, for example, right? It was just rusted? It was just rusted. Okay.

Theory number three, damage to the ship and overreaction. Water was found in the hold of the ship, indicating that damage had been caused to the ship to some degree, which let in some water. I don't know about that. I think it's more likely the water just pulled from the storms, right? Through the open skylight. I think that's more believable than damage being done to the ship.

Perhaps a large rogue wave had impacted the ship, and in the heat of the moment, the crew thought that the Mary Celeste was sinking. There was a lifeboat missing after all, which could have been used by the crew to escape what they thought was a ship sinking. The navigational tools were missing, meaning that the crew must have taken them, and with the terrible weather they endured, Briggs must have believed that putting his family in a small lifeboat and sailing into the seas was a better option and less of a risk than staying on the Mary Celeste.

I mean, that makes sense, doesn't it, Jordan? No. Why? No, that still doesn't make sense to me. No ghosts? I mean, look, again, if it was hit by a rogue wave, why isn't there more damage to it?

Yeah, good point. However, the ship's pump was working perfectly okay, enough for the crew on the day Gratia to get rid of the water and continue sailing. Other rare events like a water spout would have completely damaged the ship beyond repair, so it appears rather unlikely that water or natural damage to the ship was the cause of the crew fleeing from the ship. Though, it certainly doesn't rule out the idea that the crew willingly fled the ship for some reason, perhaps ghost related. Exactly. There we go. Of course.

Possibly ghost related. And now we come to the theory of what likely happened. And this is the theory that I subscribe to. And I'm pretty sure it's the theory that Kira also subscribes to. Yes. Yeah. And I think if you can draw yourself away from the idea that ghosts are involved, Jordan, you may believe this one as well. So, you know, leave an open mind.

I can't believe I'm saying leave an open mind to someone who actively believes in ghosts. Here we are. Here we are. I want you to leave an open mind to the more rational explanation. I will remain suspicious, but nonetheless. Usually that's used in the opposite kind of sense. Give us your best shot. Yep. The theory that most people believe stems from the ship's precious cargo, raw alcohol. When

When going through the logbook, a few notes had been taken over their trip about rumblings coming from the cargo area where the alcohol was stored. As they were sailing through the storms, paired with atmospheric pressure changes and the gradual warming of temperature itself, as they went east, the alcohol would have realistically been thrown around in their barrels. We know already that alcohol is a dangerous good to travel with, not only because you get so drunk that you become belligerent, but also because the fumes alone escaping from the barrels can itself be threatening.

If they had experienced good weather, they would have opened the hold and allowed the storage area to air out and ventilate for a longer amount of time. But due to the weather, it's posited that the fumes had been allowed to linger and grow in the hold while they battered down and kept all the rain out.

The weather itself had slightly cleared by the 25th, allowing the crew to finally open the cargo hold and vent out the fumes. And if you remember also, Jordan, they did discover the ship with those windows and stuff open and the skylight also open. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was a sarcastic condescending. It's all clicking. It's all clicking. I actually am sitting here just being like, how does this add up more than the poltergeist captain? And I'm not saying it. I'm not saying it.

So, yeah, I mean, why would all that stuff be open when they had experienced pretty much nonstop storms throughout the entire duration of the trip? Obviously, most of the duration, they had to have that stuff battered down and closed to stop water from filling up inside the ship. But, yeah, so... But...

Obviously, they had at some point opened the cargo hold and vented out the fumes. This would have caused the ship to make strange groaning noises as the trapped fumes inflated the ship and pushed against the wood. All of this gas was now escaping from the ship itself. This previously unexperienced phenomenon most likely caused the crew immediate concern. I mean, if they were religious, they probably mistook the sound of the ship groaning for spirits itself.

Or ghosts. So I guess you could still make this work with the ghost theory. Maybe they thought all the groaning was like a poltergeist haunting them. And I would even argue that this is sort of a halfway point between ghosts anyway, because it's just gas escaping, scary groaning sounds. Ghosts are just gases in the first place, right? Yeah, I think so, aren't they? What the fuck are ghosts? Anyone want to let us know in the comments, what are they? And for the love of God, someone explain to me what plasma is, please. Plasma.

Well, there's always just something about plasma and ghosts. Is it plasma? Is that what it's called? Is it? I don't remember. Plasma is in blood, though. I know that.

Yeah, that's true. Oh, do I know that? I don't know now. Maybe what I'm saying isn't true then. Shit. Yeah, I don't know. I'm scared. Oh, man. Isn't it like ectoplasm? Ectoplasm. Sorry. Yeah, that's a completely different thing. Yes. That's like a spiritual energy. It's like goop left behind by the ghosts, I believe. That's what I'm saying. Goop. What is this goop? Well, goop is made by a crazy woman in Hollywood who likes putting things in her vagina, I think.

candles made out of her vagina smell. The mother of apples. That's ectoplasm. Oh, is that also Apple's mum? Oh my God. Gwyneth Paltrow is Apple's mum. Ah, okay. She creates ectoplasm out of her vagina. Much like ghosts do. She creates goop from her vagina. I'd rather fuck on the ship. That's really, I think I'd get harder thinking about that.

So this previously unexperienced phenomenon most likely caused the crew immediate concern. The fumes likely also had an impact on the crew already, even before the groans started happening. Headaches and sickness are common side effects of

smelling alcohol fumes for an extended amount of time. Captain Briggs witnessed this all unfold and most likely grew concerned for the welfare of everyone on board with the possibility of falling even more sick or even suffering through the possibility of an explosion from the fumes. It's also possible that the crew was alerted by a more immediate impact on the alcohol like an explosion or fire in the first place.

Regardless, it's assumed that something alcohol-related occurred that spurred them into needing to make a decision immediately. Like, if there was such a drastic, you know, alcohol-fume buildup in the hold, realistically...

anything could have caused a spark to ignite those fumes. Like even just the barrels being bashed against each other or scraping along the wood or metal could have potentially caused a spark which would have then ignited the explosion. Or even just... Like they used...

whale oil lanterns, right? In those kinds of boats. So even just those flames, those naked flames could have potentially caused an explosion from the alcohol fumes. So if some kind of fire or explosion occurred, then yeah, that makes sense. The risk of staying or leaving was weighed and Briggs felt leaving was the right thing to do. The missing railing was intentionally removed to drop the lifeboat and only the bare minimum was grabbed like navigational tools. The open skylight, which had let all

which had let in all of that rain, was open to let out more alcohol fumes. They intended to return to the ship when they felt it was safe to do so, hence the hasty way the ship was left, like the drop sails, for example. And a rope was attached between the two ships, the lifeboat and the Mary Celeste, so that they put distance between themselves and the Mary Celeste in case of an explosion. But as they waited it out, the sky began to turn dark, the winds began to howl, and, as is customary at this time, and...

As evident by the previous week that they had spent on the seas, a storm came in. There were still sails up on the ship, meaning it would have taken off in the wind if the angle was right. But even without that fact, if they were in a small lifeboat in a torrential Atlantic Ocean storm, it's very likely that their rope just snapped or something or a wave took the boat under control.

The task of pulling themselves back to the Mary Celeste would have been fruitless. They were likely going up against fierce winds and water was quickly filling up the small boat with the lifeboat presumably being destroyed in the attempt to reel it back into the Mary Celeste. I mean, yeah, that seems believable to me. Brutal. Okay. Straight up, like with facts and logic, I think.

With facts and logic, it still doesn't dismiss the poltergeist. He could have orchestrated the thing to get them off. Maybe the poltergeist was there, but he was just surprised at what was happening. He's like, oh my God, all this alcohol. And he went onto the lifeboat as well and died. He's like, guys, you've got to get the fuck out of here. This shit's about to explode. I'll get the lifeboat down. He's just as scared as everyone else. That's so funny. Yeah, all right. Look.

I will somewhat reluctantly admit that this is, you know, tentatively plausible. But I will say this. Does anyone not believe this? Not as in us guys, but, you know, I suppose this is a question directed at Kira. Does anyone with any credibility think it could be anything else?

uh not that i saw really in your research you like a lot of the research you did was through uh people with sea experience right like mariners yes like that youtube channel um i mean people do talk i saw a lot of things that were talking about foul play or uh pirates and things like that but the evidence just really didn't

Mount up. Yeah. Why? Because the pirate would take the ship or they'd take the money or they'd actually put the Jolly Roger on it or... They'd leave some kind of calling card. Because, like, nothing was taken really on board besides what the crew would have taken, like the navigational tools, like all the alcohol was there. I wonder if pirates were a real problem in... This was the Mediterranean, wasn't it? Well, yeah. No, not the Mediterranean. Yeah.

Well, it was around Spain. Does that count as Mediterranean? I guess. It's like the outside of Spain. Yeah, it's like near the Mediterranean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Between the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, I would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would think the pirates would still be a potential risk. Yeah, I would think so at that time, a potential risk. I mean, I suppose there's still a risk now. Yeah, there's still a thing now. So why wouldn't they be back then? Yeah, absolutely. True.

Yeah, I think so with this one, I think that logically there actually is more evidence to suggest that it was alcohol related. Like again, the urgency with which they departed the ship, the lifeboat being used itself was evidence. The nautical tools, like the things that they took with them indicated that they needed to navigate or had some kind of forethought there.

Whereas if it was like a pirate or something, they would have taken the alcohol or some other thing. They would have stolen things. That's what piracy is. Whereas this was literally... It just seemed like an escape. An escape for the crew. Also...

There wasn't any food missing. All of the food for the rest of the trip was still there. Which would indicate that they had plans to come back if they were escaping. Yeah, if maybe they thought that the ship was damaged beyond repair or the water, even though the water pumps were working, if for some reason they thought the ship was going down. I feel like they might have taken food with them. Yeah. But there was enough for the trip and more. Yeah.

Yeah, it definitely seems like it was more of a thing where they used the lifeboat to put safe distance between themselves and the Mary Celeste, but with the intention of eventually getting back onto the ship. And again, evidence-wise, I think the skylight and things like that being left open, as well as the windows left being open, especially in an area that was experiencing storms and a timeline that was experiencing so many storms, is also evidence that they were trying to

get rid of the gas, basically. There's no other reason that those things would be open in my idea or my view of the events. It seems like they were trying to vent something. And then combined with everything else that happened, obviously, I think that they knew that there was a potential for an explosion to happen, which is why they backed off a bit on the lifeboat. And then a storm happened and they were lost at sea. I think that just makes the most sense. It's the most complete kind of story that

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It really is.

It's pretty sadly, annoyingly undeniable. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Not because the crew died, by the way, just the ghost thing again. But like, it's, it's just, man, I would really like, as Jackson said at the beginning of this, God, I would love it if just once, just once it was ghost. Well, don't forget we are, you and I, and I guess Kira by extent are working on a side series coming up.

in the next few months that could lead to us experiencing ghosts for the first time. Could be the exception to prove the rule. Huh? Yep. Could be the exception that proves the rule. Yeah, we could finally experience ghosts for ourselves, which would be great. I want to believe. I want to believe so fucking bad. Please. Please haunt me. Oh, old man with pneumonia.

I reject that energy from my house. Okay. Me too. It's like quite really voodoo-y what you just said there. I'm going to start performing rituals at 3am to invite ghosts into our house. So chapter six, the end of the haunted ship. The investigations and court hearings for the Mary Celeste began and was conducted by a man named Frederick Sollyflood. No way. What kind of fucking name is Frederick Sollyflood? Not bad. Not bad.

It is strange. It's a very Harry Potter name. Yeah, that sounds like a fantasy name. He was the Attorney General of Gibraltar. He was often described as a man who held strong opinions and rarely changed his mind. He was pretty convinced that crime had most likely been committed, but the main reasoning behind his thought process being the sword, some marks on the floor, and an indent in a wall that looked like it may have been done by a weapon, like an axe.

He thought that the root of the problem was, again, the alcohol, but he instead believed that in his theory, the crew may have gone drunk and then murdered the Brigg family. But as the investigation continued, and they realized there were no signs of violence, and the sword bore no blood on it, and when Winchester arrived in Gibraltar and testified that the murder on the ship just wouldn't have happened, Flood had to rescind his theory and go back to the drawing board, which is when he came up with the whole poltergeist theory. Winchester claimed his ship... I'm joking, that's not in here, by the way.

Winchester claimed his ship but was hit with a ton of monetary charges for the investigation and salvaging effort. He refused to pay for the investigation, criticizing how long they had taken, but he ultimately did pay the salvaging fee. The crew of the Dei Gratia got 20% of what the ship was worth for salvaging the ship in the first place. The ship continued to have a strange life even after these events.

Winchester was forced to sell the ship at a loss to the company Cartwright and Harrison. Continued on for a few years until during a delivery of horses one year near Africa, most of the animals died after taking on extreme illness. Great, so now the ship's going to be haunted by horse ghosts as well. Damn, dude. That's such a haunted ship. Isn't it? Does this just happen to a lot of ships? Is that what they were back then? Like people just died on them constantly? Or is this just a very unlucky ship?

Column A and column B, I reckon, surely. I don't know. People died a lot back then. Yeah, true. Horses too. Very easily. Yeah. Christ. Well, here we go. Then the very same year, the captain of the ship got sick and also died on the ship with another... Far out. ...being...

being the final victim claimed by the Mary Celeste. Sold at a loss again, the new owner of the ship, Wesley Gove, also did not have any luck with the ship. In 1884, the ship got into a wreck and Wesley promptly sold

Sought out an insurance payout of $25,000, which is worth around $800,000 today, even though nothing of value was actually on the ship. In a full circle moment on its final voyage, the Mary Celeste was a captain by a man named Parker. He was given the goal of wrecking the ship. Why is this ship just being constantly wrecked? It seems like it's just an insurance fraud ship. That's all they use it for. It's business model. Yeah.

In a way, it is cursed, hey? Cursed by scam artists. Yeah, totally. Imagine being the poltergeist on this ship, just constantly having to watch it be sunk on purpose.

Very annoying. I mean, that would piss you off. Yeah. No wonder he's a poltergeist and not a ghost. Yeah, I mean, he's just a scam artist who goes to prankster. He was given the goal of wrecking the ship along Turk's Island. The plan was changed to crashing the ship near a reef, as some believe that the initial plan would have resulted in death. This went smoothly, and the crew jumped and sailed away, leaving behind the wrecked and abandoned Mary Celeste.

Unfortunately for them, the insurance company was now beginning to tire of paying out clearly fraudulent insurance claims on the Mary Celeste, and they instead opted to not pay them out. All they got was $500 from salvage rights. Intentionally wrecking your own ship also carried the death penalty at the time. Really? I guess it was happening a lot. That's crazy.

They got away with their scheme without punishment after facing court, but interestingly enough, the owner of the ship, captain, and the first mate all died within six months after.

Yeah, there you go. It is cursed. There you go. It's cursed. This was cool. This episode was a bit like at the end of many, many murder mysteries where they prove that it isn't a ghost and then the last scene is just, I don't know, like a chair floating as everyone leaves. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's setting up for season two or something. I actually like this episode. It was a lot of history, but it's pretty cool.

No, it's really cool, especially because, come on, there is something supernatural happening there. They got punished. They got punished. So we end at this final note. Where is the Mary's the Less now? It's like checking up on a celebrity almost. Yeah. In 2001, he got addicted to fucking drugs and died on a reef somewhere.

In 2001, a marine archaeologist named Clive Cussler announced that he had found the remains of a ship embedded in the Roquelois Reef.

Roche-Lois Reef. I don't know how to pronounce it. I'm going to go Roche-Lois. Roche-Lois Reef. Only a few pieces of timber and some metal artifacts could be recovered with the rest of the wreckage being consumed by the coral. It is presumed, though, not known with certainty, that this site is the watery grave of the Mary Celeste. Mary Celeste. She's still out there haunting a reef. That poltergeist has had to haunt the underwater section of that area for many decades since then.

It's incredible that they still hang around. I can't believe that it hasn't rotted away. Well, yeah. I mean, the Titanic's still around, isn't it? The Titanic makes more sense because it's out of middle, but wood. Wood. Wood. And I guess it's not as big as the Titanic either. It's still a rather small vessel comparatively. I'm guessing it's not as big, yeah. Any last words about this one, guys?

And we're going to end there. I am somewhat, I am quite disappointed in this one. No ghost. That's why. No ghost. So I really wish that it was more open than it actually is. It's just, this is the damning point of living in our times, isn't there? It's always, there's an explanation for something. I'm sick of there being explanations for things. I mean, there's not always an explanation, but I will admit that I'm also disappointed that the explanation in this, in this case is,

It's pretty damning in my eyes. Yeah. It seems pretty obvious what happened. Yeah. Nonetheless, it was kind of cool just hearing that, you know, the life and times of the Mary Celeste. Yeah. I still like it from a historical aspect. I didn't know much about the Mary Celeste before going into this. I just knew that it was a haunted ship. So, yeah, it was nice learning about the history of it. I did find it interesting. Me too. Bit of an enjoyable story. Kira, what about you?

Yeah, I found it interesting too. Do you like boats now? No, they still make me C6. Fair enough. All right. So if you like this episode, you can sign up over at official.men for a free seven day trial to add free early access Red Thread episodes.

as well as everything else on our network. Your support obviously means the world to us over here at Red Thread and it really does make the show possible. It really does. So big thank you. Remember, seven-day free trial. You get ad-free early access to Red Thread as well as you get the ability to ask us questions that we answer on the show, which we're going to do right now. Coffee Knife asks, what role would you personally like to have on a ship? Captain, first mate, cook, guy who sits on a crow nest all day, for example. What would you like?

Okay, why the hell would you want to be the guy that sits on the crow nest all day? Why was that even an option? That'd be pretty cool. What's wrong with that? Isn't that like a punishment job? What's wrong with that? You get to see the entire ocean.

You would be sunburned to a crisp. Okay, yeah, true. Looking at the entire ocean the entire time, I'm imagining won't get that interesting anymore. Like you only think that oceanfront views are good because you're usually eating at a Michelin star restaurant and you are vaguely looking at it in between being hammered, you know?

And you're in air conditioning. Being up there all day baking in the sun, very little water or whatever, you start to go delusional enough to start seeing cracks

in the distance maybe, and that would be kind of cool. That would be kind of cool. But that's the other thing as well. I think that it would honestly bake your brain and it would be very difficult to have any other job but be that man. That's it. Even Lighthouse. Even probably Lighthouse. You're probably too. Because if there's one thing that I can guarantee you, we had a lot of back and forth about who did and didn't know how to read back then. That guy didn't know how to read.

Yeah, the cronest guy. The cronest guy. He thought he was signing up to be the captain, but he misread. Started with a C. That's as far as you go. Started with a C. He dimly recognised it.

Why would you want to be the cook? I mean, obviously you'd want to be the captain. Yeah. Who wouldn't want to be the captain? Maybe deputy captain. If they had one, that might be. I think that's the first mate. I think that's literally what that is. Oh, that literally was the first mate. Yeah. Second mate. See, I don't know anything about this, but actually you probably have more responsibilities than the captain. I'd imagine that the captain, you know what it'd be being captain. I would imagine would be like being counselor of a university as opposed to vice chancellor. Yeah. Yeah.

You'd be doing way less work. Yeah, so it'd be cool to be the captain, but not the first mate. Is that what you're saying? Oh, yeah. It's like anything else anywhere. It's way better to be at the top than the bottom. I'll be the guy that takes inventory. I know that's a purser. I think it's purser. I'll be a purser, the guy who just stores everything and is in charge of looking after that. Because I imagine then I get to stay inside all day and not get baked in the sun. Oh, well. Now, if you were talking about that...

Does role count as being a dainty, newly married lady that wears a lot of white dresses with a twirling umbrella? Because I'm taking that role. You want to be the Duchess. You want to be like the royalty. I want to be the Duchess. The royalty being transported across the ocean to her new groom, basically.

Yeah, that'd be sick. To her estate in England. Okay, sure. I guess. I guess that's a role. That counts as a role. People taking off their sullen, sparsely washed hats every time I walk past. That'd be nice. All right, Kira, what about you? And I'm afraid that Duchess and Woman is taking on me. Okay. I'll be the cook. The cook? Yeah, you do make good food. That's a good choice. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. Wyatt asks, now that Jordan has been on the show for a few episodes, longer than that, right? It's been like three months. I don't actually know. Has it? I don't know. Time flies. Actually more like two months. I don't know. Now that you've been on the show for a few episodes, I'd love to hear how he's liking it. Favorite episode to record and learn about so far. Oh, well, I'm very honored to be here. It is...

pretty much the only part of my week that isn't rigorous torture it feels like it's just a small escape from the small tiny personal hell that is my life i like being here it's blowing endorsement and um and also a cry for help it sounds like

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was obviously encoded into it. And my favorite episode by a mile to this day is the Avril Lavigne one. Oh, yeah. That was without a doubt. That was a good one. We need more of that. God, that was funny. Yeah, that was good. Holy shit. That was just every sentence in it. Banger after banger. All righty. He also asks any topics he personally wants to explore.

Oh, yeah. We were discussing this just the other day. I want to be discussing more and more aliens. In fact, that's all I want to be discussing, really. And then the other one is I really want to do that Australian island that I can't remember the name of. I think it's off the coast of Western Australia. I don't remember the name right now, but I did look into it after you talked to me about it. And I said, yeah, this is absolutely a red thread topic. That sounds fantastic. Isn't it? Isn't it?

And that's all the ideas that I have. It's good enough for me. I mean, your topic of aliens itself is so broad that it can be like an entire set of episodes in of itself. Yeah, exactly. Like it's too difficult to just do an aliens episode on itself titled aliens because there's so many different situations.

It needs to be multiple episodes. It has to be like this specific, this crash site. Yes. Okay. And the exploration investigation of it and any evidence they found, et cetera, as well as corroborating stories from people, you know, a full investigation is that one.

Alright, so the next question, RKOV4Life3 asks, I think a fun theory would be that Captain McClellan ended up haunting the ship and that's why the crew disappeared. What are your thoughts? Well, yeah, I think if it was haunted, then it would be the pneumonia guy, which is Captain McClellan. So yeah, 100% agreed with that. If it had to be a ghost, it's him. Who else would it be?

Yeah, who the hell else died in that entire story other than everyone? Eventually. Eventually. But the first death is usually the most important because now that spirit has laid claim to that spiritual domain. It's christened. It's like smashing the champagne bottle on the top of it. It's his now. He's marked it with his scent, with his ectoplasm. Crazy Potter asks, why do the ghosts do evil stuff?

I don't know. Why is it that ghosts are never kind? They're always evil. Why is it that? No, didn't you just explain that before? Aren't other ghosts sort of neutral? No. They kind of seem to walk around the world looking for a long lost lover or a baby or something. They don't seem to be particularly mean spirited. I mean, maybe some. I've got stories of people that claim that they had like a little boy that used to enter their room at night. That's an evil boy. But why is he evil? Because he's a ghost.

Just inherently evil. Okay, so just by osmosis. Just purely because he's a ghost, he's evil. Just by definition. All right, far out. Holy shit. I did not realize you were such a fundamentalist Christian that the idea of him being alive is that much of an affront to God. Alive after death is immoral. Yeah. Yeah.

They're clearly evil. I knew that you were a Puritan that followed the Bible to the letter. All right, let me put it this way. I think I've heard of a lot more ghosts born from serial killers or murderers or stuff like that than I have of just random people, like nice people. Yeah, I suppose it's because why would you really tell anyone that?

If I saw a nice ghost right now who just wanted to give me a high five or something or gave me a thumbs up then disappeared, I'd tell someone about that. Yeah, so would I. I'd be like, holy shit, I just met the nicest ghost ever. Yes, but I don't think that it would spread to strangers knowing about it. It'd be a thing that you would tell your friends. That's what happens, honestly, with a bunch of people that always claim that they've seen ghosts with me. Sometimes they do poltergeisty things.

But usually they're just there. A lot of the time they're just like, I don't know, just sitting on the end of your bed. And you're like, hello? And they go, hmm, and disappear. But according to you, that's evil, isn't it, Jackson? Yes. Because what, they woke up and they're a bit scared. They woke me up. Yeah, that's rude. They were tickling my feet while I was asleep. You assume. All right, next question. The low man. Weird question, but is it possible that a ghost can be humping you right now and you don't even know?

I mean, yeah. That's not weird. That's very possible. That's terrifying. And also, yes. Also, Jackson, get off the Star Wars slop and try out Warhammer 40K. It's way better than Star Wars and it has fun lore. There we go. That's because you're on this show now, Jordan. I'm going to get people asking about Warhammer. I'm saying Warhammer references all the time. Constantly now. I mentioned it once. Once. And this has been my entire life ever since. Haunted by Warhammer nerds. Haunted by Warhammer.

All right. Brief. Ken, right. Ask if Jordan fell off a ship with Jackson. We all know from his previous answers before a definite hard. No. Yeah. Avoid that. It's too risky. Yeah.

It's too risky. Who knows what would happen. So you're not even going to try. No, no. You're not going to throw like one of those little donut rye fluff things at me. Nothing. Not before I deflate it. Not a jacket. Just in case you need seven. I'll throw a deflated rye to you that you have to blow up. And then I have to blow up. You have to earn the right to survive.

You're not making it easy, Jackson. I'm going to turn you into a ghost, which is what you would want. And then when you do, I would be like, oh, it's Jordan. Evil. Yeah, true. At least he did it for the YouTube channel. Final question comes from Jackson Clark's right hand. And their question is, my ex-girlfriend's name is Celeste. Can you tell me why she cheated on me? What? What?

I can't. I don't know why. I'm sorry, though. No, I don't know. She's crueler than the ship herself. It's time to move on, though. You've got to stop leaving these comments about her.

Yeah. That's going to do it for this episode. Thank you very much for listening. Remember, you can leave questions like those. Hopefully more pertinent to the actual case next time. But still, you can leave questions over at official.men. You can sign up for a seven-day free trial right now to get early access, ad-free access to Red Thread. That's going to do it for this time. We'll see you next time on Red Thread. Thank you and goodbye. Bye. See ya.

so