Redefining Meghan Markle
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Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. My name is Tess Valomo. My name's Claire Donalds. And guys, we are recording from Zoom, or not Zoom, but the internet. Yeah, we're figuring it out. But I think there's a lot of people that are watching this right now that are like,

good because then we can go worldwide. Yeah. Yeah. We're going global. Yeah. We're going to travel. We're going to go to prison. Exactly. So we're just getting like we're women in STEM. We're getting the lay of the land and it's going to be great. No, it is good to know our options. If we actually do go to prison, that Ram can survive that.

So it's good to know. I'm sure they'll let us bring our podcasting equipment into the prison. I mean, I was thinking today, thank God we live five minutes away from each other because Claire had to come by and get a tech thing. And I was like, imagine. No, I literally had the same thought. And I called my mom on the way home and I was like, thank God.

Thank God. But you guys knew when I was looking for my new apartment, it had to be within like a five minute radius from Tess. We love that. Yeah, we do. We love it so much. Tess, do you want to tell the Rammys who you've been DMing with? Okay. So we did a TikTok.

Always these TikToks that go viral or anything, it's always just me with no makeup in bed. And this time it was in a bathrobe. But you looked chic. You know what? I wish that your wedding ring was showing. I thought the same thing, Claire. I was like, God damn it.

Show the double band. I know I take it off to shower because sometimes you've got to scrub, scrub, and you don't want that shit to be vulnerable. Yeah, it's true. But I did a TikTok on the Ram account, so please go watch it, saying my dream Real Housewives of Beverly Hills cast because you guys know how we feel that we need a mix-up. Well, it's tired. For us to say that, it's really hard.

It's not an easy thing to talk about, but at the point that Bravo's at right now, we need to be honest and we need Andy Cohen to listen. So I said what could be fun, which Claire and I have talked about before, and they would never do it, but having the cool girls of Hollywood like Sarah Foster, Jamie Mizrahi, Kelly Sawyer,

Jen Meyers. Jen Meyers. You know, like those cool, rich nepo girls. So yeah, if you guys don't know, all of these women, I don't know if all of them, but most of these women's parents are very famous people. They grew up in Hollywood. They all grew up going to like these private schools together. And now they're in the industry being rich and hot. Like literally, they all live like the good life. Which is what Housewives is at its core and it's lost the plot.

percent and so it's like why can't we just bring back also the sisterhood the real life friendships are so important so made that a few days ago and then aaron foster found it today and not only did she post a screenshot on her story she did she then did a second story posting the link to it now that is so generous like that is women supporting other women but then she dms the ram account she says we loved watching this today on set

And then she said, nobody wants this. Netflix is nobody wants this ever. Anyone? Yep. Season two. And then she sends a selfie of her blowing a kiss to us. You guys have no idea how much this means to Tess because Tess has been such a big Aaron Foster fan from the start. And she is such a great example of like how connecting with your fans does make a difference because she always DMs me back. Like always. Yeah.

We have chatted a lot through the years. I'm not going to lie. We're dying to get her on. Come on, Erin. I know. Yeah, we're going to hit up her team again. But this just ignited something in me. I was like, God, I just wish we were best friends. But I appreciate her. One step closer. So it's been an exciting day.

We needed it. We needed it. We were feeling a little down in the dumps. But, you know, we went out to pool last night. We felt a little bit better. Yes, you guys. We went to our favorite bar, The Chooch, and we played pool, which that is a sentence you never thought you'd hear us say. But we did. It was so fun. It's not my best game, you could say. It's so hard. It's so hard.

so hard. I'm like, how do people do it? No, I know. There was this couple after you guys left, there was this couple that was helping me. And the guy kept trying to explain it to me of like how to hold your hands and like how to hit the ball. And then the girl was finally like, do you take Pilates? And I was like, yes. And she's like, you know, when you extend your arm back on triceps and immediately I hit the ball. And I was like, I just needed someone to speak my language. We always need the girlies to tell us like what's going on. Because

How hot is it for like a woman to be good at pool? Would you like have you ever been like taught pool by a man? No. Well, actually, yeah, I think I just I've always been really drunk when it's happened. So I just don't remember. Whatever. But yes, I think so. You know, and you're just like, oh, my God. And like he like leans over you and starts and you're just like, this is this is sexual. It's very hot. It is very hot.

So yeah, so that made us feel a little bit better. Yeah. But we're excited to record a fresh new episode today that many of you guys will be pissed off about. I know, but I'm so excited to talk about it. From the start, I have to dedicate this episode to Cindy Donald, my mother. Of course. I thought about her the entire time while researching. I really did. I really did. She'll be so pleased to hear that. Tess, what are we talking about? Because then I'll explain why. We were talking about the one, the only...

Duchess of Sussex. And now is she possessed? No. No. And then people are going to be so mad and they're going to be like, stop saying that. Oh, yeah. Hannah, again, trying to do my troll voice. We're going to be doing a lot of troll voices today. Oh, my God. Yeah. We're talking about none other than Meghan Markle.

Yes. So my mother loves Meghan and Harry so much. She is the number one Meghan and Harry apologist. And so when I was on the phone with her, I was like, why? Why do you love them again? And she was like, I just I really loved his book, Spare. And she actually didn't think it was odd that remember that excerpt where he says that like the same chapstick that Diana used, he put on his peen and thought of her.

I thought that was a little odd. Cindy was like, I don't get it. Why is it so weird? So again, we love that. The apology. We love it. And she was like, he just loves her so much. And I can just tell how much they are in love with each other. And they both have such good hearts. And he's done so much for the world. And yeah. Look, I think that they're very, very in love with each other too. Same. Like true. I mean, you cannot deny that. You can...

Yeah.

That is okay. That is a good thing sometimes. The royal family is toxic. Would you want to be trapped in that institution? And that's like what I keep saying on TikTok. I'm just like, who wants this life? And who is Adrian Maloof in this world? In this world? No. And like, William doesn't want to be king. I don't think. I don't think Kate wants to be queen. But like,

Guys, nothing about this is glamorous. And as we've learned and listened to our Princess Diana episode, listen to any of our royal episodes. Like this world is so conservative and controlling and scary and you have no freedom and mental health is like not on the top of the institution's priorities. And it's not something you get to choose except for like if you are the spare, then like, well, actually, we'll be talking about next week. You can step down. Mm-hmm.

And we'll get to that next week. But just a little preview. A little, a little preview. We love it. Yeah. So, you know, I'm really excited to talk about her. I want to ask you first, what has been your, like, what was your overall opinion of Megan kind of when she came onto the scene and what do you feel about her now?

So I had never really heard of her before when people were like, oh my God, Prince Harry's dating Meghan Markle. I was like, who? Because I never watched Suits. Same. I've never watched Deal or No Deal, which like the lore, I can't even believe it. That's okay. No, talk about an American dream though. Like-

My God. So I didn't really know anything about her. Then I was like, oh my God, she's so gorgeous. And then I was like, oh my God, she's so annoying. And then like, so I've like really had my journey with her because there was a time where I was like, because we even covered Harry and Meghan on premium like a long time ago, I think the doc. And I think I was like so annoyed with her. But at the same time, yeah. And but

But then it's like I've grown to evolve of being like, you can just laugh at someone being pretentious and like you don't have to actively hate her for like what? And I actually really respect her now because she has been a feminist icon since like the fourth grade. Literally. So I love that.

Yeah, I think we can, I get someone, a celebrity, not being your cup of tea, but I think at the same time, the amount of like rage that she receives from people. And that's actually a perfect segue, Claire, because I'd like to start the episode with, we posted a TikTok a couple months ago saying, why do you hate Meghan Markle? I was just really curious. I really wanted to see what some of the people said. And I'd like to talk about some of the highlights from that TikTok. Please. Starting off.

A big one, which I do believe is very true, racism. And a lot of people were commenting, it's nothing but racism. That's why people don't like her. Only white women don't like her.

And you guys are the problem. Interessant. Look at that. Exactly. And we are going to get into that. Another quote, I was indifferent before she walked on stage with Lady Gaga at the Olympics when she was performing and tried to dance with her. And she was pissed. I don't know what this is. Did she dance with Lady Gaga at the Olympics? I don't know. But if she did, that is grounds to absolutely hate someone and comment on the internet.

I mean, I've changed my whole thoughts about her. I was indifferent before and then she started dancing with Lady Gaga. I hate her. How dare. How dare. How dare. Internalized misogyny. Well, there it is. Internalized misogyny is always active. That should be the, essentially the name of, the second name of Ram. You know, it's just like, it's all we talk about here. She is fake and pretentious and out of touch.

Prince Harry is insufferable. She has no authenticity. My best friend nannied for them. The kindest people ever, she said. I do believe that. Very narcissistic. Everything is... Why? The big thing is that people say she is a liar. She's such a liar. She's such a fucking liar, Camille. Camille.

Like, good God. She visited me and my daughter after the Uvalde? Uvalde. Uvalde tragedy. She listened to me. She truly has the kindest heart. She comes across as very performative. She ruined Prince Harry's relationship with his family. And we're going to end it right there. You know, she is the most powerful woman in the world because she has managed to rip apart the royal family on her own. And that's power.

It's just like it's the same thing about being like women sleep their way to the top. It's like, wow, if it were only that easy. Exactly. Women would be running the world. Exactly. And this is truly – I think we had 400 comments on this. I mean people were fighting with each other in it and that just gives you a little –

little piece of the pie, you could say, of the kind of dialogue that happens around her. I'm excited to get into it. All right, well, let's get into it. We're going to start with our sources. I watched the Harry and Meghan Netflix documentary, Wikipedia, BBC, and The Mirror.

Oh, the mirror. Oh my God. I bet there are some nasty ass articles. You know why I wanted to put the mirror in there, Claire? Tell me. Because last time that we had a controversial episode, people were like, you only are doing sources from one side of it. And I was like, well, the mirror really does not like Megan. No, no kidding. So this is journalism. I was in a paparazzi photo in the mirror too. Oh my God. That's right. With a British person. Yes.

So I just, you know, I put that in there just to be able to say that. Homage. Homage, if you will. Okay, so we have our sources. Let's get into Meghan Markle.

Claire, did you know that that's not her... She's not her real name. No. I was already starting to think about her sign. What's her real name? Her real name is Rachel Megan Markle. Not Rachel. I know. Isn't that so funny? Because her character on Suits? Rachel. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Well, so when did she change it to Meg? Are we going to get into that? I think she changed it for her... For Sag? I think she changed it as a kid because her parents all referred her as Meg. Well, and...

Like when she wrote in that letter, which we'll get to, I think it said Megan. I think, yeah. She was just always a Megan and she knew that. Well, a lot of people do the like middle. They're like, that's like a little bit. I mean, Megan Markle is a chic name. Yeah, it is an alliteration, if you will. If you will. Do you want to guess your sign? Okay. So I have two things. What's your first instinct? Because it's always right. No, but I don't think I actually... Okay. Is she a Leo? No.

August 4th, 1981. I knew that you were going to get it. I knew it. I mean, her hair is so gorgeous. She is the star of the show. She is such a Leo. How is she not a Leo? What was your other one going to be? A Libra, actually. The balance. The balance and gentleness, kind of an airiness about her. Okay, that's a good one, too. But yes, our girl is a Leo, and she was born... Wait, 1987? 1981. Oh, 81. Okay.

And she was born at West Park Hospital in Canoga Park. Where is that? That's in Valley? Yeah, I think it's in the Deep Valley. Okay. So her parents, former makeup artist Doria Ragland and her father, Thomas Markle Sr., was a television lighting director and director of photography. So they were very LA. They were very in the biz.

They separated when she was two years old and then they divorced when she was four years old. Okay. She said her relationship with her mom was more of that of like her mom was like an older controlling sister. That's what her mom said. She was like, she didn't really like we didn't have like a typical mother and daughter relationship.

I do feel like Megan was born like, and I say this with the most love and light, but like as a 40-year-old woman out of the womb, you know? Such an old soul. Like she's such an old soul. She's never had bad posture. No, and I think she's – I know. I'm just like sit up, Tess. Sit up. I think she's always just been like a mature woman and girl and gentle and –

She's my sweet kid. Yeah, it's not her first time around the block. You know what I mean? Like she's been reincarnated. Literally. Yeah. So her mom moved out of the valley into a more predominantly black neighborhood because she found herself encountering racial prejudice in the valley.

Being the mother of a biracial child led to assumptions, which Megan previously highlighted in an interview with Elle, where she explained, there was my mom, caramel in complexion, with her light-skinned baby in tow, being asked where my mother was since they assumed she was the nanny.

And I think I just assume everyone knows about her story and everything, but her mother is black and her father is white. I actually think a lot of people might not know that. Yeah, I know. That's true because, yeah, that's true. I mean, well, maybe like Gen Z actually might not know that because they were still pretty young when this started happening. God, that's so true. You know what I mean? Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, this all started, like this whole story started with at least her and Harry in 2016. That's crazy. Like that is insane. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess it would be that time. I like never forget. Like I was at the gym one time looking at the news and it was just they were everywhere. I was obsessed. I was like, who's this gorgeous, gorgeous angel? A hundred percent. So her mom, Doria's struggle with racism was further highlighted during an episode of Harry and Megan on Netflix when Megan told how she had been in a concert at the Hollywood Bowl when she was in high school with her mom. Also, side note, Megan Markle graduated. Her high school graduation was at the Hollywood Bowl.

What? I know. Isn't that crazy? I was like, what a place. Guys, the Hollywood Bowl is truly one of my favorite venues in the entire world. I mean, we were sobbing third row at Sarah McLachlan. It's so iconic. It's so powerful. So they had been at a concert together. They were in the parking lot when someone honked their horn at her and called her mom the N-word.

She explained, I just remember my mom, the grip that her hands had on the steering wheel. You could just tell it was so tight. Like all the knuckles got so white and she was silent for the rest of the drive home. We never talked about it again. And Megan will say that like she had a very sort of like sheltered childhood and being biracial.

was a little confusing for her because she never really like felt like she fit in anywhere, which we've talked about before in previous episodes. And so that when her race became the topic of like controversy, when she became famous from Harry, like,

She ended up being like to her mom, like, wait, what? Like, that's what they're talking about. And Doria admitted that she regretted not discussing racism and like Megan's blackness with her. And she was a child. She said as a parent in hindsight, absolutely. I would like to go back and have that kind of real conversation with how the world actually sees you. Oh, my God. I mean, it just must be.

So difficult to bring up, you know, and you want to protect your kids as long as possible. Exactly. And you never expect them to go on to be in this full scale fame. Just getting attacked for every part of you.

But Megan's childhood was fairly happy. She grew up on the set visiting General Hospital and married with children because that's where her dad was working. And she was just like, I love the camaraderie on set. I love the environment here. It's very positive. And she was like, I'd like to work in entertainment. And she always wanted to be an actress, but she will even say acting was not her true passion. But she really liked it.

It's like a means to an end for her because it like shocks me that she would want to be an actress too. It doesn't seem like who she is, but then she's Leo, right?

I know, like she did high school theater and she liked to perform, but I think she's just always had so many interests. And I think truly her passion has always been like social justice. I think so too. Helping women and younger women. And we love that. So until the age of nine, she split custody with both of her parents. And then Doria left LA to pursue her career. So she mainly had custody with her dad throughout like end of middle school, early high school.

I tried to find more information about this because I was like, where did Doria go? Like, I was just curious.

So I went to Reddit. Okay. Well, that's scary. It was not kind. It was not kind. And all that I could find was that Doria actually was in jail during this time. And everyone's like, I looked it up and I found that she lived in like 18 places. And that means that she was in jail. And I was just like, this is... I was like, shut up. Okay. Shut up. So that was really all that I could find on the internet. And besides that, I don't know where she went. But I think she just went to go...

Pursue her career. That's so interesting. But it seems like her and Megan have such a great relationship and are fine. And so it's like, whatever. Well, she's really close with her mom and no longer speaks to her dad. But she said that growing up, she was a daddy's girl and this time really bonded them. Okay. Well, I think that a lot of us already know. But that makes me even sadder for the future of the bullshit that her dad's going to try to pull. Exactly. Yeah. Her dad's a little...

second rodent. Yeah, that's the one that we should actually be directing our attention at if we're going to call someone a fame-sucking rodent. I mean, we'll talk about it, but that's just what's so confusing to me that people wanted to defend her dad, who we know nothing about, more than her, who's saying, like, I keep my distance from him because I don't trust him. And people are like, how dare you? Yeah, it doesn't make sense. People on the internet don't make sense. Guys, boundaries in family is very important, like we will talk about. So,

So her dad remarried later, so she does have two half-siblings. Trash, trash, trash, not for us. Samantha Markle and Thomas Markle Jr., who are also fame-sucking rodents. Yeah, the siblings are not having half-siblings are not trash. Yes, yes.

From someone who has a half sibling myself. Yes. No, they're just not kind to Megan. No, of course. So at the age of 11, because Megan is a social justice queen, she and her classmates wrote to Procter & Gamble to gender neutralize a dish soap commercial on TV. It had said like women all over the world are frustrated with like in the kitchen. And she was like, how dare you?

How dare you? I just love that she recognized that so early on. Like, that was in her being. Literally. But also, like, good aunt Doria, is that her mom's name? Mm-hmm. Because it's like, she saw that from somewhere of being like, hey. Exactly, Claire. And so they ended up redoing the commercial and...

Her handwriting was insane. The letter that she sent into the company. Well, she used to be a calligraphist. Of course. Calligraphist. But I think you can look at people and like tell if they have good handwriting or not. It's so true. And I don't. Just so everyone knows. I have like, it can be good if I try. You have good handwriting. Yeah.

It's okay. I think it's very much her personality. Like if I put effort into it, it's like, oh, wow, that's like really nice. And then if I don't, it's like, oh, she could have done better. Yeah. Can you imagine if Meghan Markle had bad handwriting? Like that just would not happen. The world would hate her even more. Yeah. Look at her penmanship.

God. So she, she said, quote, what people do not get about me is I was always such a nerd. I was not the pretty one. My entire identity was wrapped around being the smart one. And usually that is obnoxious to hear. This is true. Okay. It's true. I will say that's like,

from someone who's the most gorgeous woman in the world, it's going to make people mad. It will. It's a hundred percent. But you look at photos of her when she was a kid and when she was a kid and she wasn't like the prettiest in there. Like she was like a little, um, awkward and she had not grown into her beauty until probably end of high school. And I do think that makes you stronger when you go through like a little bit of an ugly duckling phase. Well, a hundred percent. I think it's necessary. You have to. And so I was, I got what she was saying about like,

People, like, look at me a certain way now, but, like, as a kid, I was like, I am not... No one is staring at me. No one is trying to ask me out. Like, she was, like, very...

She said that her childhood was like a little bit lonely at times. And I think because she was an only child growing up and had, you know, going back and forth between houses. She was like, I just wanted it to be a little bit different. In her teenage years, she worked at a froyo shop, donut shop, and later as a nanny and a waitress. So girl was working. Girl was working. She went to all girls high school. She got straight A's. She was super involved. Immaculate fart. Sorry. Immaculate fart. Yeah.

I kind of out myself when I saw the interview and she's like, I went to Immaculate Heart. Immaculate Fart. Exactly. And in her spare time, she would volunteer at a soup kitchen on Skid Row.

So she graduates from high school and she goes to Northwestern University. Very good school. Hard to get into. Well, yeah, she's so smart. And like, God, she already it's like, where do you find the time in high school to volunteer? Literally. And in college, she was a Kappa Kappa Gamma and she double majored in theater and international studies.

Isn't that hot? Yes. But she's such a Kappa Kappa Gamma. You know, they call them Kappa Kappa Grandmas, but it's like always the girls who are like very polished. Like I know a lot of Kappas listening right now, Ramy Kappas, and you guys are like, you would be wearing the collared shirts that we're wearing right now. Oh yes. We are dressed for Megan right now. Yeah. We're trying to be chic and a little bougie. Yeah. Like I know sororities are different at every school. I feel like universally Kappas are like good, smart, polished girls. Yeah. It makes sense for her. Yeah. It does. It does.

She spent her junior year when she was at Northwestern as a junior press officer at the American Embassy in Buenos Aires. And she's just working. I know. And this is when she learned Spanish, right? Yes. And she's pretty good at Spanish.

Spanish. I know because with Love Megan too, she's like, I love the way that they... And again, you guys, I think it's okay for people to just know everything and it can be fun. And I think it makes us jealous because we feel inadequate when someone is so beautiful and smart, but just let her have it. Let her speak Spanish. And I think for women, if you're too much, if you're too smart and too pretty, you just kind of can't win. Yeah. And it's like...

She really is Helen from Bridesmaids. Like, she just is. She's rich. She's pretty. She's smart. And she kind of – She knows multiple languages. Literally. And you just – like you said, let her have it. Like, who cares? Just let her have it. Who cares? Be entertained by it. Yes. You know? Like, God. So she graduates from Northwestern and she was like, I'm going to start pursuing acting. I feel like it's like a good way to get a paycheck. She's doing some commercial work.

But she is having a hard time because she says, quote, I wasn't black enough for the black roles and I wasn't white enough for the white ones. So no one really knew what to do with her. Her manager at the time said it was months before he even realized that she was biracial. And so he'd send her out and the casting directors would be like, wait, what is she? And he was like, she's a hot California, freckled, gorgeous. And they were like, it doesn't work for this. Like, we need to put her in a box. And so she was struggling a bit.

It's so frustrating. It's like, I really can't change who I am. And put her in everything. Like, she is so – I am sorry. She is so beautiful. No, it's actually unreal. I just like – I think that she is like the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. I'm so into her. Can I say something? Say it. Freckles. Fucking freckles. Like, oh my God. We all hated them when we were young. And now look at us. So gorgeous. So gorgeous. Yeah.

So, but she did get some guest roles. She was on CSI New York. She got like a small role in that Ashton Kutcher, Amanda Peet movie, A Lot Like Love. She plays hot girl on the plane. I mean, well done. She's being cast as like hot girls. Yeah. And then, and then she books 34 episodes of Deal or No Deal.

What was the audition process? I wonder. Probably just like going in and smiling and clapping a lot and looking hot. Was she in a bikini or were they always wearing dresses? They were always in a really short, tight red dress. Like a bandage dress. Truly. On national television? Can you imagine? No, I cannot. I absolutely cannot. And I don't want to. Me either.

And this is, I mean, we're going to hear about Deal or No Deal throughout her whole life because this is what tore her apart when she became part of like the royal club. And people were literally like, how could a princess be a former whore? Like, I mean, people were truly so disgusted that she was on Deal or No Deal. Also,

Also, like, that's so fucking rude to everyone who has been a dealer no-deal girl. Like, sorry that I'm trying to pay my bills and I'm hot. It's, like, literally what we go back to in, like, old Hollywood where people are like, actresses are sluts. It's like, let her – I mean, I'm sure that paid very well. To get consistent work as an actor, impossible. Impossible. That's why you were like, she thought it would be easy money to be an actor. I'm like, sweetheart. But I guess it was for her. Okay. Well, good for her. Yeah. Yeah.

Good for her. As we're smoking a cigarette. Not for me. Yeah, those residuals still don't even cut it, do they? Yeah, I love my 50 cent residual check. Yeah, it's always really nice. It's been a long time. It's been a long time for me. But she finally, in 2011, got cast as Rachel Zane, the gorgeous and sassy and smart paralegal. And she was on Suits on USA Network for seven seasons.

That is the dream as an actor. She literally was like, it's all I wanted. I wanted consistency. I wanted to be on set. I wanted a community. I wanted like my fellow actors and crew to feel like family. Like that was really important to her. And so she moves to Toronto full time and she's just on this show for years and she gets $50,000 in episodes. So she's making like $500,000 a year. And she's like, I was fucking

fucking live in. I was recognized sometimes. Like if I'd go to like a baseball game or at a grocery store and people were just like, are you that girl from Suits? Can I have a picture? And she was like, I loved it.

No, she truly, I remember watching, I don't know if it was the documentary. I remember watching something where she was talking about her time on Suits and living in Toronto. And I was like, she's actually living the dream. She has financial stability. She gets to go to work, but it's also like, it's like a network show. So like hours aren't crazy. You're not having these like overnight shoots. You're living in this gorgeous apartment, hanging out with your friends. Like she's

She had it made. You're literally also like playing this character that you know and you're so comfortable with. So you're like, you're working hard, but you're also like not working that hard. Not really. You know, like, and I think like she's not on set for 15 hours a day. Like it was very like a normal job. And so what's kind of sad to me about the documentary, and obviously she found love and like now has children. And it's not like she regrets meeting Harry, but she's all her friends are like, this is the happiest time of her life. And she was just like,

loving everything, you know? Yeah. Times were simpler for her. Times were simpler. And she made a choice, 100%. But like, I did just, I feel this like heartache whenever like I see this point of her life because it's just like everything is about to change and she's about to be like hated by most of the world and you're just like,

Damn. I know. It's just sad. Were you following her with the Tig? Is this when she started the Tig? Yeah. So she starts the Tig when she gets a little bit more successful with Suits, which is like a lifestyle brand. It's like a blog. She doesn't know how to sit still. She doesn't. And it's very similar to what we're seeing her do now of recipes and travel and fashion. And she said it was very lucrative, which you did not expect.

Who were we talking to that they were like, I knew what the Tig was like before? Who was that? It wasn't Hannah Brown, was it? It was someone that I was like, you knew the Tig? Yeah. What does Tig mean, Tig? It's based off of an Italian wine that changed her life.

That's right. I'm obsessed with her. You guys, you have to laugh at it because it's so crazy. And it's not hurting anybody. No, exactly. It's literally not hurting anyone. Exactly. Like I said on Instagram the other day, go DM Trump something nasty if you're feeling that hateful towards someone. Just put that on to someone that's actually destroying the world. Yeah, and if you want to keep it in the royal family, Prince Andrew's still there.

Exactly, Claire. So he's disgusting. Let's attack his social media. He probably doesn't have it, but you know. I'm down. Yeah. We write it down, people. So during this time, which I don't know if a lot of people know this, she was previously married to this producer and his name was Trevor Engelson, but they separated in 2013. Okay, but didn't Bethany Frankel date this man? Yes, she did. It all goes back to Bravo. Literally. And like, you look at photos and I was like, huh.

Is he hot? No. Okay. Not to me. Well, it doesn't really matter for men. Exactly. But so they get divorced and... Wait, he's a director? He's a producer. A producer. Okay. But Claire, everything is shortly about to change. And we are going to talk about Meetin' Prince Harry right after this quick break. Work management platforms. Ugh. Endless onboarding. IT bottlenecks. Admin requests. But what if things were different? We found love.

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Hello, I'm Heather McDonald, stand-up comic and pop culture expert and the host of my podcast, Juicy Scoop. If you're obsessed with Hollywood romances, reality TV drama on and off camera, and celebrity gossip, this is the show for you. In each episode, I dive into the juiciest, most salacious, and

controversial pop culture stories of the moment. And I give my opinion in the most comedic way. It's based on my own Hollywood experiences working on television shows and of course my own experiences with the actual stars themselves. You're also going to hear from a range of guests from actors to comedians

to comics to reality stars like Countess Luann from New York Housewives or Jax Taylor from Vanderpump Rules and now The Valley. So if you want the scoop on the hottest gossip, you've come to the right place. Tune into Juicy Scoop wherever you get your podcasts. You'll thank me later. Hey, it's Cassie. And I'm Danielle. And we're the hosts of Watch Her Cook, a podcast where we celebrate women who aren't just following the rules, but rewriting them.

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Join us every week to learn about the lives of women who faced the odds and changed history. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We can't wait to share these stories with you. Just a reminder, empowered women empower the world. Now let's go cook. And we are back. So Claire, I'd like to start off with a quote that really pissed people off to really start this episode.

Prince Harry chapter, okay? And the quote is, it's so interesting because we talk about it now and then, you know, because I'm from the States and you don't grow up with the same understanding of the royal family. While I now understand very clearly there is global interest there, I just didn't know much about him. And so the only thing I had asked, mutual friend, when she said she wanted to set us up, I had one question and it was, well, is he nice? Because...

Because if he wasn't kind, then it didn't seem like it would make sense. So we went and met for a drink. And I think very quickly into that, we said, what are we doing tomorrow? We should meet again.

that was such a good megan test that was i could have a good magnet more i could prep more no i think that you'll have to give us some more megan towards the end now that i'm more into it that was so well done thank you so much um megan megan so this to this day you guys is what people cannot stand about her that she did not admit that she knew who he was before they met people wanted her to say yes i knew him i liked him i had a crush on him of course i knew

All of the things. There's a picture of her in front of Buckingham Palace as a teenager. They might set her up for...

for the rest of her fame. Like, because she said this. This will haunt her. Literally. But again, like, well, I think the best way she could have handled it would to be like, well, I mean, of course I knew who he was. Like, I didn't know that much about him, but it's Prince Harry. Like, so I was, but if she were to even be like, so I was excited to go on a date with him, people would be like, look at her. I completely agree. Like, I think it's annoying to not admit that you knew who he was. I also think if you did, people would be still

still crucifying you. So it's kind of like, what can she say? And I do, but I actually do fully believe that Megan was like, well, is he kind? Where me, I'd be like, before I, if I knew one of my friends was friends with Prince Harry, I would be hounding them every day to set me up on a date with them. Seriously. But I just do think, because then there's a video from 2015 and she's like doing some red carpet and

And the interviewer is asking her like flats or heels, like yogurt, like all of these questions. Hard pressing questions for women on the red carpet. Exactly. Things we need to know. And then she ends it with Harry or William. And Megan literally goes, I don't know. And then she goes, no, seriously, which one? And she goes, I don't care. So, but that video is not really shown a lot. Like I genuinely think she was not

star fucking or chasing this like you know what i mean i don't think she had a lot of interest in prince harry even if she knew who he was i agree but like also you guys like she's just a woman like who wouldn't be so excited to go on a date with prince harry so why are y'all so you are mad that she said she didn't know but like okay move on who cares also like she's a celebrity too celebrity yeah she is celebrity too like yes they have different like statuses and fame and whatever but like she's also famous like

Famous people should hook up with each other. Well, yeah. And they have mutual friends. So they're like running around in the same circles, which is just like amazing. I know. God, it's chic as hell. So she says that she doesn't Google him, but she asked her friend to like screenshot his private Instagram. And so she says she goes through every single photo on his Instagram and is like, wait, I...

And she was like, I think I had an idea of what he might be like. And she was like, all of his photos were just like sunsets in Africa and like with animals and children. Okay. So she did admit that she like looked at his Instagram, like how we all do before going on a date. Then why are you all so mad? Yeah. She was like, of course I looked at his Instagram. Yeah.

Okay, so their mutual friend hooks them up. Blind date, 2016. People suspect, I don't think it's ever been fully confirmed, that it's Megan's ex-best friend, stylist Jessica Marooney, who was at her wedding with her kids. They had a falling out. Why? Do we know? I think it was something that Megan said too much to the press about something with Megan. Like she felt betrayed by Jessica. Jessica felt too much.

That Jessica said too much and Megan felt betrayed. Yeah. That will happen. That will happen. Well, she's lost a lot of friends. I mean, you just do when like you're this famous and in this kind of situation. It's really sad. So Megan says that they went on two dates.

The first date, she was like, he was late. And I was just like, this, this was a mistake. Like this fucking like essentially like playboy. Like I'm sure he like doesn't really care. And Harry was like, I was literally stuck in traffic having a panic attack being like, this woman is going to think that I am an asshole. And he finally got there and was profusely apologizing. And she was like, oh, she's like, he's like really sorry. And he was bright red. And he was like, I'm never this late. And she was like, all right, sit down.

And she said that they just had this, like, instant attraction in chemistry. Prince Harry was, like, she was the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen. And she was very intelligent and very kind. And I, like, wasn't used to, like, meeting a woman that, like, fit.

fit. I could check all those boxes. Well, and I do fully think that she was not... I mean, yeah, I just think she's different than anyone he's ever dated. I don't think he's dated, not that we know of, seriously, an American too. She's an American woman who had a single mom from LA. You know what I mean? But also is so brilliant. Yeah.

I mean, truly. And they just said that they connected on like this like really deep level, like right off the bat. And they were talking about how like both of them go to Africa to do a lot of work there. And they were just like, we are so not relatable at all. Literally, I've never talked about that on a date myself. Just like when I go to Africa.

I see that elephant. I'm changed. It's so fulfilling to me. Yes, truly. So what charities have you started? Like literally, they are connecting over charities. And that's what they said. They were like, we both like cared about these certain causes. And it really like made us be like, holy shit. Was their first date in Toronto? No, it was in London. She was in London? She was in London because she had friends in London. And so...

She was already going to be there, but then she was only there for 48 hours. And so then he was like, can we meet up tomorrow? Tessa, I literally have butterflies right now. It's very cute. Like it is very cute. Well, it's so exciting. It's truly like out of a rom-com that you're like, I can't believe this is happening to me right now. Like I'm about to go on a date with Prince Harry in London.

Literally. And so then he's like, let's go out tomorrow. They go to the same restaurant, which because I'm thinking that that restaurant like was on his side of like on his list. Like, yeah, maybe wouldn't like he trusted the place to go to the same place, which I was like, oh, that must kind of suck. Actually, it's like a really famous person, like always having to go to like your certain places. Yeah. But like, think about we always go to the same places anyway, just because it's a good

Actually, what am I saying? I'm a creature of habit. I'm like, why is this even an issue for me? Yeah, this would be great, actually. And then I just have a private room there. Amazing. Yeah, so they go out again. They have this three, four-hour date, and they're sitting next to each other on the same side of the table, and they just both look at each other at the end, and they're like, we want to make this work.

of boys. I don't know why I'm like so into this right now, but I'm like so excited for them. I am as well. And they were just like, let's fucking do long distance. Let's keep talking to each other. And like, I'll go to Toronto and she's like, I come to London quite a bit. It's easy for me to get here. I'll bring my dog. And

be great. God, again, it's like you're just so rich that you can just be like, I can just like fly back and forth between Toronto and London like anytime. God, it's chic. Also, like the stars just lined up like that. She was in a Commonwealth country too. You know what I mean? It's so true. Like, so I didn't think about that. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I wrote, I wrote where you are. Yeah.

You know? Yeah, I do. I know what you're saying. It is amazing. It is amazing. Oh, how fun. It's just early stages in a relationship, but level it up times 10 because he's royal. It's always sweet.

was cute. Like, everyone can just at least admit this is cute. It's cute. Well, has anyone read Red, White, and Royal Blue? Because, like, it gives me these vibes, except for a straight couple, and it's so fun. Exactly, Claire. The sneaking around is fun. And they had fun sneaking around for a little bit. Okay? So they are doing... They're going back and forth, but they are literally, like...

hanging out inside of like hotels and they're doing some disguises. They're putting on wigs. Like they start secretly dating. They said they had five months where no one knew.

That's crazy that they could even go that long. Exactly. But then by November 2017, it is announced to the world that they are officially dating. It literally blows up everywhere. Like she's on the cover of every magazine. And they were like, this is Prince Harry's new girl. It's Meghan Markle. She's an actress on suit. She's American. And the British media is not kind to Claire.

No. Well, I think there's a few factors, not even about Megan, but from Harry's side that comes into this. Because I feel like Gen Z, maybe you guys do realize also that Harry was the party boy, too. Like, he was the one with, like, new different girlfriends all the time, always partying. He was naughty. Yeah, and so it, like, adds another...

layer and they, but they can be nastier to Megan because she's not like going to be potentially the queen. You know what I mean? And she's American. Exactly. And she's black. Come on. It's all of the things. She's also divorced. So that's a big no, no for the Royals. And yeah. And so people are just like tearing her apart. Um,

And she's getting a lot of criticism because of her race. And she says, quote, it's very different to be a minority, but not be treated as a minority right off the bat. Obviously, now people are very aware of my race because they made it such an issue when I went to the UK. But before that, people didn't treat me as a, quote, black woman.

So she starts to gain all of this attention. And her mom says to her, honey, this is about race. And Megan said to me, mommy, I don't want to hear that. And I said, you may not, you may not want to hear that, but this is what is coming down the pike. So get used to it. And there are headlines from the Daily Mail immediately saying Harry's new girl is straight out of Compton. The Daily Star says Harry's hottie Megan comes from the roughest sub suburb with gang wars.

Guys, this is a little sprinkle of what the British, what the UK is saying, the UK press. It is like intense. I also don't think that people realize how much it affects you. Like whether you want to see these headlines or not, like they're people at the end of the day. And whether it's like, and she, you know, in the documentary, she's like, I,

was like what the fuck she was like I'm not even she's like I'm not from Compton she's also like what is so bad about being from Compton she was like everything about it was so insulting it was hard not to get worked up and so she said like this was what was happening obviously on the cover of magazines but then internally what Harry's family had the biggest problem with she's an actress is

It's so weird. And they were like, she's not – and they kept being like, she's not Angelina Jolie. Like, she's like an actress on a network TV show, not even a main character. Right.

Okay, who's pretentious here, people? Who is pretentious here? That's so rude. So she was like, well, fuck. So she retires from acting pretty shortly into their relationship. And people gave her flack for this and being like, so you give up your dreams for a man? She... The royal family does not allow you to have another job besides being a royal. So...

She had to. Yeah. Why do you think that she's going to be like, oh, my call time's really early tomorrow, so I actually can't make it to this appearance? Like, what? This was not her decision. And she has interviews, which I remember seeing at the time and judging it of her being like, I was, you know, guys, I got my seven years on a dream show. I don't need, I don't need that anymore. Like that, like scratched an itch for me. And I remember being like, you're just saying that. You're just saying that because you have to. And I'm like,

Literally no choice. Okay, but also for a second, what if she did want to quit acting and just hang out with her boyfriend? Or start a new chapter of her life. Like what she did. Yeah. And also like it's most people leave a show after three, four, seven seasons. Like that's a long time to have the same role. So like-

I had judgment about that. I remember when I first heard it. And then I was like, now I'm like, who cares? Yeah, who cares? But I agree. Same. I mean, I'm saying all this stuff. I've really come around on Megan. But I was also a hater, too. I was as well. I was as well. And it's like, now I look back and I'm like, why? Yeah. So she hasn't fully moved to the UK yet. But she's still in Toronto. She's leaving Suits. And she is being stalked.

By her neighbors, by paparazzi. And there's this moment where she starts to realize, oh my God, this is how famous I am becoming. And she's leaving yoga in Toronto. And she said she came out and there were 12 men that were just screaming at her. And she was like, I didn't know what to do. And so I smiled at them and I said, oh, it's like a cold day. I hope you guys are staying warm.

And all the headlines then are like, look at Megan loving the paparazzi. And she is obsessed with them. And she gets a call from Harry being like, babe, you can't do that. You can't smile at them because people then are going to think that you like this attention. And it's going to perpetuate this story that you are obsessed with being famous and you're just with me for the fame. I don't know.

I would cry if my boyfriend called and was like, you can't talk to them like that. Like I would feel like I got in trouble. I would be so embarrassed. It makes me sick to like think about. Same. And I would be like, please don't think that that's like what I'm doing. I would cry. Oh, I would cry too. Oh my God. So immediately she's just like Toronto didn't even feel safe. She said some of her neighbors were like tipped off by the paparazzi to put a live stream camera in her front yard that she found being like, oh,

That's great. Like these neighbors that I've had for five years are now like against me. I would feel so unsafe. Well, immediately you're just like, no, trust no one. Yeah. Like this happened very quickly to her. Just like, oh, people are not kind. They're not rooting for me. And like, I should be careful. Yeah. So what has she met the royal family at this point? Not yet. She meets the royal family right before her engagement. Okay.

Her proposal. Her proposal. Because Harry needs to ask his grandmama for permission and she needs to say yes. My god! I know. So much pressure. Well, so she goes to London and oh wait, no actually this is after No, okay, wait, no. He asks

His grandma. And she's like, yes, of course. Go for it. If you're in love. It seems like amazing. I was actually talking to my mom about this. It seems like Elizabeth and Harry had like a very special relationship and kinship. I think they did. Like, I think that Elizabeth liked that Harry had the razz, you know? She's like, at least someone in this family can make me laugh because it's been depressing as hell. She's like, I hate my son. He's about to be king. William's like a wet blanket. Literally. She's like, I hated Diana and we fought all the time. I know. That's what I don't get. I know.

I don't get, but hey. But it's different with your kid and with your grandkid. It's so true. You know? So he had asked her for permission. She was like, I just want you to be happy. And then he was like, okay, now Megan, you got to come to London. Okay, so I'm getting ahead of myself. Okay, sorry, sorry. He proposes to her, okay? Where? They are in London. They're in like their little cottage. Oh, that's right.

And she's roasting a chicken and he gets champagne out. Of course she's roasting a chicken. Of course she is. The girl likes to cook. Like she's not having butter noodles. No. Oh my God. She's never had butter noodles in her entire life. And Harry gets champagne out and she's like, that's so weird, H. Like you don't like champagne. Like what? Like this is so interesting. And then she's like, oh, you're proposing to me. So then he like goes and does something. She calls her friend and it's cute. Like it shows the video on the documentary where she's like, it's Harry.

That's very, very cute. He gets down on one knee. He proposes to her and she's like, but of course. Oh my God. But of course. Quickly talk about the ring. Yeah, we have to. Come on. Oh my God. So it's designed by Harry himself. Oh, by H. By H. It's a bespoke. Did I say bespoke? I think so, but I don't know what that means. I think it means it's like up.

Oh. I don't know actually what that means. I thought that's lifted. Yeah. Not lifted. I don't think that's the term. Let us know, you guys. What's bespoke? It's a bespoke three-stone piece with deep personal significance. The central cushion-cut diamond, approximately three carats. Damn. Was ethically sourced from Botswana, a country... Exactly.

A country meaningful to the couple as they spent their early years in their relationship there. I'm like, they've only been dating for like a year. You guys are just hanging out at Botswana? So there's a center stone and then there's two smaller round diamonds from Princess Diana's personal jewelry collection around it. Can you imagine getting that as an engagement ring? I'm sweating. No, I cannot. I cannot. Same. So she's like, I'm engaged. I'm engaged.

Direct quotes. Direct quotes. And they immediately have to, you know, come out and do the photo shoot. And they come out in the gardens. And she, oh, God, she looks so good. I mean, her fashion, guys, is so good. And they come out and they're posing for photos. And then they immediately go back into the palace. And they have to do a BBC 30 Minutes interview special. Just like all of the kids have to do the royals when they get engaged. Yeah.

It's so crazy. It's just such a different world. It's uncomfortable to watch. I think that William and Kate's is more uncomfortable to watch than Meghan and Harry's. Harry does not seem happy to be there, which I don't blame him. They immediately, I mean, uh, Meghan refers to it as just like her first, she's like, it was like my first time doing a reality TV show where they're like, this is what you're going to say. And this is how you look at him. And Harry or Will and Kate doing theirs felt like someone was holding a gun to their head. Yeah.

It really did. And it's like they put two strangers together and were like, there you go. Like, how'd you fall in love? Yeah. And with Megan and Harry, it's not like that, but you can just tell, like, he doesn't want to be there. She is so nervous. She is clenching onto his hand and just staring at him for, like, help. And you can just tell she's trying so hard to be, like, prim and proper, which feels uncomfortable to see because you just know that they're like, you have to say, oh, my goodness. Oh, it was darling. Like, everything is just like...

She can't be herself. No, no. But I do think that's like kind of part of herself too. Like she would be the one to say, oh, it's so darling. But yeah, just like navigating this whole new world. And I don't think he didn't want to be there because of her. I think he's like, I hate this royal family shit. I think he's like, I, I think always in the back of Harry's mind is look what this did to my mom.

Yes. Oh my God. Bring it there, Tess. And I think he leads his whole life with that. And when he finally found someone that he loves and wants to marry and have children with, I think from the beginning he was like, we need to come up with an exit plan. I think so too. If I survive this and she survives this. His mom died because of the press.

Exactly. And you know what? I could also see it happening of him saying something and Megan would be like, well, can we leave? And then he could be like, and I could see him be like, no. And then she's like, but why not? And then he is like, but why not? And he, you guys, he has been depressed his entire life. This man is not happy to be in the Royals. In the book, he just speaks about being depressed.

Literally never being fulfilled by this, never enjoying it. So it's like, why does he want to stay? I feel like she was probably one of the first women or people in his life ever being like, you know, we could just leave because it's like any girl that he's dated before, I'm sure would have been stoked to be a royal. Like, don't you think that that makes her like less of like a fame whore, a fame whore? Because she's literally like, no, we should get out. Yes, because it's affecting both our mental health, which we're going to talk about.

So, she's, you know, they're really pressed in the interview. People are like, it's only been, how long has it been? A year? And they're like, no, it's been like a year and a half. It's definitely like a quick engagement, I would say. They ask her if Megan knew about the family and him prior, the scrutiny from the tabloids. And Megan does say, like, look, just because I have a little bit of fame from this TV show does not mean I'm used to this. Like, I did not expect this. It has been hard. And people are like, boo-hoo. Like, everyone's had to do it. Yeah.

And even William is like, Kate had to deal with the exact same thing. Why are we doing so bad for Megan? No, she didn't. And Harry says, you know what, Will? Brother, it's very different because it's about race. And the whole family was like, oh, we're going to, wow, you're going to make it about this, like, liberal agenda. Yeah.

The woke mob has made its way to Buckingham Palace. Like, literally. So all of them were immediately, like, they were isolated immediately because Harry said that. And then they all felt, like, threatened by their relationship. This is sad that this, that brothers were torn apart. And it's not because of Meghan. Like, it's not because of Meghan. Like, it's their relationship. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Show, let's get into the wedding. Do you remember where you were? Did you watch it? Yeah, I was in bed. I think we were texting. Because I was with Katie and Evan and we were hungover in bed. And we were drinking champagne. Because it was super early in the morning. I woke up and watched Kate and Williams in high school. And my mom woke me up. And my mom watched Diana's and Charles. I know. I know.

I know. And then we got to watch Megan and Harry. It was like five in the morning or something, right? I think we woke up at like 530. Oh my God. That was like such a fun day. I know. I loved that day. Oh yeah. Cause then we went out on the, what was that the day that we, wow, I digress. Was that the day that we cried and fought in Venice, not being invited to that party? No, it wasn't that day. I got premium to hear more about that.

I mean, I'm sure we cried that day, but I don't think it was because we fought. Okay. Just different. No, Emma wasn't there. Emma wasn't in town. Okay. Okay. That's right. It was something that we all went day drinking on the West side. Of course. You got to celebrate. Of course. So yeah, May 19th at George Chapel, Windsor Castle. Her dress was a Claire Waite Keller dress. What'd you think about the dress? It was a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

I was very disappointed by the look. I'm sorry to say I really was. I really liked her hair and glam, like how it was like a little bit more casual. But I didn't like it with the dress. People were so pissed about her hair because she had like some strands, some flyaways. I thought it was so fucking chic.

I didn't like her tiara that she wore. I really didn't. Oh, you didn't? No, that headband. No, I wasn't into it. I just don't think the dress fit. I like the idea of it. I just wish it had a different fabric and fit her, actually. It looked too big on her. It did. I was just like, what's going on?

going on? But she's probably freaking stressed and like, you know, and just was withering away. We'll talk about it. Yeah. We'll talk about some of the behind the scenes. Oh, but they were so cute when they were like whispering things together. They're so cute. They look so happy. They go. I was shocked that Charles walked her down the aisle.

Remember that? I do remember that. So this is when it is very clear to the press that she does not have a good relationship with her dad. But her dad is coming out in the press and being like, she abandoned me. And like, you know, making his own like victim story. And people are like, how could she not include her father in these nuptials? And he was like, she's always been like this. Like, fame ruined her. And she did want to like be a part of the royal family. And this has always been her goal.

And her stepsister is saying this or her half sister, whatever her name is. I'd be like, you guys look at the fact that a parent is talking about their child and the press this way. And you're going to say that Megan is the nasty one. Exactly. And there is like this tough part that I'm always like, do you remember the documentary? She has a very, she's very close with her niece. It's actually like her half.

sister's aunt's daughter or something. I was truly like, I don't get how this is your niece, but they like kind of grew up together. They got really close in like their late twenties. Yes. Yes. And she tells her that she shouldn't come to the wedding. Yes. Oh my God. That was crazy to me. And that I would feel so betrayed if I were her. I, this, I will never forget Megan Markle for. And she said like, it's because I wanted to protect her. Like everyone coming to this wedding, um,

would be crucified and because there was such family drama with what my dad was saying like I just didn't want her to get into it and I was like but you still invited like your best friend so why wouldn't you invite your other best friend it to me that was like that would be the nail in the coffin unforgivable and if I were her niece I'd be like you have changed like fame has changed you the royal family has changed you like how could you do this to me question mark it felt very cold it felt cruel at the same time I'm like

People make mistakes. People have moments of panic. I don't know. I mean, it's something I will never understand, and I think it's not a – it wasn't a good decision. No. But there was drama about the wedding. We're going to talk about it a little bit later when we talk about what she reveals in Oprah's interview about this time, but we'll get there. Okay. She admits later that they actually did, like, a private ceremony in a backyard with, like, 20 people, and that was, like, really their wedding day. This was the day for the world, and –

They needed a little bit more intimacy, so they were technically already married when they got married at the chapel. Yeah, I'm glad because I would choose nothing about that aesthetic for my wedding if I were her. Oh, no. And you have to follow so many rules. I'm sure that would not be her wedding dress that she would pick for her little backyard thing. I mean, this woman is like a sexy, fashionable little thing. She's not going to be picking that dress. She'll be showing off the body. You can't show off the body. No, you can't show off the body.

So they're wed. Their life is royals. They live at Nottingham Cottage.

And they refer to it, which is kind of ridiculous, as this tiny little apartment that they're having to really just get by living in. They're annoying about the apartment. They are. I'm like, you guys are fine. You guys are fine. You're living in a cottage on Buckingham Palace. Yes, you probably could have a mansion if you wanted to, but come on. Literally in interviews, they're like, we could barely fit in it. We were too tall for it. They make it seem like they're living in poverty. You guys. You guys.

You guys. Yeah. And so pretty much right away, her engagements begin. So after they're married, her first public appearance with Harry was at the World AIDS Day walkabout in Nottingham on December 1st, 2017. And you guys know what a walkabout is. It's like the Royals walk down a street filled with fans.

And they get flowers. They get flowers. They shake hands. A lot of, how do you do? Oh, thank you so much for that. Oh, you didn't have to. That is so kind. And they just do that for like hours. And they throw the flowers like over their shoulder to an assistant. It's like, take it. Take it. Give it to your mom. Say it's from me. Like, so...

And then they have to go on tour. Like the Royals go on tour, which is just crazy. Like, I'm like, to do what exactly? Why do we have Royals still? It's so crazy. If I were English, British, I'd be like, my tax dollars go to these people. Oh, I'd be so pissed. Like literally. And because...

The British people's tax dollars go to the royals. They have this sense of entitlement of like, we get access to them. We get to know them. We get to be in their lives. The press can destroy them and get really, they can chase them in a car for hours to get a photo. Like there is a sense of entitlement, I think, not with everyone, but I think that's like the nature of the relationship. That's such a good point to us.

So they go on tour to Dublin, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, and people are excited to meet her. And there's a lot of British people that are like, yes, fuck yeah. She's breaking the cycle, and we like to see a woman that is mixed race, and she says that she's a feminist, and she does a lot for UN women, and yeah, we like this. But we hear more...

Cruel things said about her. And immediately people are like, do you see the way that she is so entitled? Like she walks before he walks and she grabs his hand. She sits before he. And it's like all of this like status thing of like she seems superior to him. And people do not like that. No, people really think that she trapped this man.

Literally. And yeah. And people are just like, why is she always touching him? The Royal shouldn't be touching each other. Like she's like so possessive of him. Like it becomes this, like people are fixated on their dynamic. Yeah. And they're like, it's her fault. Yeah, of course. Well, of course it's her fault. God forbid she touched her husband.

Literally. And immediately there becomes a Kate versus Megan comparison of just like, look how gentle and sweet Kate is. And look how bitchy and annoying Megan is. I was about to say like there couldn't be women who are more different. But I'm like, I actually don't think they're that different. I agree. In brackets, if we're going to put women in boxes, which the world does anyway, so here we are. Like they're kind of in the same box.

I've never understood it. Yeah. And so she is just being torn apart. Like her first, like six months to a year of being in this family. Not, she's not handling it. Well, not well, but not well, but I don't think I would be either. Me either. In a bombshell interview that she and her husband, Prince Harry gave to Oprah Winfrey in 2021, Megan said, Royal life had her feeling so isolated and,

That she did not want to be alive anymore. Oh, my God. And they're still part of the royal family when they're giving this interview? This is right after they exited. Okay. Because 2021, I think, is when they exited. It might actually be in... Oh, yeah. 2020 is when they made the announcement. Okay. So she... Yeah. I mean, this interview, were you silent or were you silenced? Silenced. Oh, my God. It's iconic. It is iconic. I do remember watching that interview, though, and being like...

Give us more, Oprah. You know, like, go deeper. It felt a little, like, restricted. Like, I wish Andy Cohen was giving the interview. And, like, I know there's only so much that they can say, but... I know. I felt the same way. So she said, quote, I was really ashamed to say it at the time and ashamed to have to admit it to Harry, especially because I know how much loss he has suffered. But I knew that if I didn't say it, that I would do it. And I just didn't want to be alive anymore. So she is...

and severely depressed. And I think like we as viewers of her life probably had no idea of what was going on because she shows up in these gorgeous outfits. She's waving. She's smiling. She's

doing this for years and I behind the curtain she said that she was suffering and that she couldn't let the noise like you know like she just she knew what people were saying about her she received hateful you know they received hateful mail and dms and she was like there was never anything positive about me I couldn't do anything right and I knew that the world hated me and like

like we get one bad review, Claire. Spiral. A spiral for usually 24 hours of just feeling like, wow, people don't like us and...

I can't imagine what this does to your mental health. That's what I'm saying. I don't think that people realize how much it affects you. And we experience this on the smallest scale. I'm truly not comparing us to Meghan Markle at all. I'm just relating to the fact that if people say something bad about you on the internet, it fucking hurts. Yes. And I think people were really shocked to hear that she did not want to be alive anymore.

I feel like some people didn't like believe her or like really sympathize with her on that. You know what I mean? The conversation around it was very disturbing because people were immediately like, well, if that's the case, then it was like so hypocritical. They're like, then you should have just exited right there. Or then you should have divorced Harry or you should have. And it's like, she is in love with this man. She wants to be with him. And this is his world. Like she's trying to do the best she can. And she's,

What is she supposed to do? And I do also, I don't know if we'll talk about this. I understand the criticism and it's a little confusing for me too. However, they have to make a buck of like, if now that you're out of the royal family, if you hate fame so much, then why do you keep doing these things? We're going to talk about it. Okay. We'll wait. It's like an actually really good transition because we're about to talk about it. But yeah, I think people don't like when women that have been like,

hated come forward and say, well, I was depressed or I had suicidal thoughts. People think it's a cop-out to say that, to be like, you're just trying to gain sympathy. And I think that's a very dangerous response to have to women in the public eye who admit this. It does not sit well with me. So

she, at the end of 2018, people are kind of noticing that she seems more depressed at events and she's like not speaking to the press as much. She's looking, she looks like solemn. Like I remember like seeing her, I think she's at the premiere of the Lion King or something. She's meeting Beyonce and she looks like her eyes are like a cry for help. And she literally says that was the day where she was like on the bathroom floor, did not want to go to this event. She was just like, I can't have another picture of myself be taken. I cannot have people like

Talk about me. And Harry was like, do this one more event with me. Like we are booked for it. And then I got you. And then we can fucking be out of here. He's so hot. Also, like, you know, that was big because Megan loves Beyonce and she'll never let us forget it. She won't. Oh, it's my friend Beyonce. Just text me. Her friend Beyonce. And at this time, too, which I forgot to mention, she is pregnant and it is announced that they are going to expect a baby boy. Baby boy. A little Archie. Mm hmm. Cutie.

Okay, so the big announcement. In January 2020, Meghan and Harry returned to the UK from a vacation in Canada and announced they were stepping back from their role as royal senior members of the royal family and would balance their time between the UK and North America. The statement read, after many months of reflection and internal discussions, we have chosen to make a transition this year in starting to carve out a progressive new role within this institution.

We intend to step back as senior members of the royal family and work to become financially independent while continuing to fully support Her Majesty the Queen.

And later it's revealed that they're literally like, the royals are fucking evil and we had to get out of there basically because... Do you remember like the main reason? Someone said something about the baby's race now. Yes, Claire. There were concerns over Archie's skin color. It does not... They never said exactly who said it, but the internet did some digging. And we do believe that it is either William or Charles.

Right. Who do you think it is? It wasn't the queen. Did they confirm that, that they were like, it wasn't the queen? Yes, they confirmed that it wasn't her. I think it was William. That is so fucked up. Because I think Charles isn't confrontational. Charles and William probably talked about it. And Charles was like, I'm not going to say anything, but like...

And then William went to him and was like, we can't have a mixed kid be in the family. That is so horrifying. And not that like it would be excused at all if it were Charles, but you would just assume it would be the older person. I think it's William. I just do. I don't know why. I think there was something else that someone said that made it seem like it was William. That is horrifying. And they also said that there was going to be a denial of Archie's title and security. And Megan was like, if Archie is that vulnerable, then.

Which is so crazy. Like, why? Okay, they weren't going to give Archie security because they stepped down.

You guys like this goes beyond titles. This is your fucking family. Exactly. That's so horrendous that they threw them to the wolves like that. So then what's a girl to do? You now are a mother. You're trying to protect your kid. Harry must be freaking out too of just like, this is all set. This is now getting more intense. The stakes are higher. And in Harry's book, he's basically just like, I had such a strange relationship with my family throughout my entire relationship with Megan. And,

Kate did not like her. And it was very clear that she was like, I'm not going to make her feel welcome. Will and her, William and Harry would fight about Megan. Like they just like really, she really triggered the whole family there. So about the day of the wedding, which a quick little behind the scenes, there was rumors that Megan had made Kate cry.

Because of something on the wedding. And then during the interview with Oprah, Megan's like, she fucking made me cry. And she...

There was an issue with the bridesmaids' dresses of like the flower or the flower girl dresses. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry that Charlotte can't fit in hers or like there's an issue. Why don't, you know, I have a tailor who can help. And Megan was like, nope, you need to remake all of these. But they were French couture and they couldn't be remade. And this was the night before the wedding. And the text is crazy because Kate is literally like so cold to her. And Meghan, Harry said that Meghan just lost it.

The text actually made me laugh. Like, it's just so ridiculous. And then Kate's just like, fine. And you know what? People will criticize and say they are airing the royal family dirty laundry, you guys. The royal family controls the press, too. They all have, it's like a gift, like they have like a relationship with them. They're like, I got you and you scratch my back and I scratch, you make me look good and I'll give you more. Exactly. And didn't we find out from the documentaries that like Prince Charles was like feeding the press stuff about Meghan and Harry, like where they were living? Yes.

Because they were also like, if you focus on someone else, then we don't get a lot of attention for our own stuff. Like how there are rumors that...

Kate and William have an open marriage and all of that. Like it's all, you know, and I think this was going on during like the Prince Andrew stuff too, with his involvement in Epstein. And so then they were like, we are going to put the attention off of us and put it on Megan. Of course. Of course. It's like a fact, you guys, that's not an opinion. That's like, it's confirmed. Exactly. Um, so yeah, there's just a lot of bad stuff. And so they're like, you know what? We're going to move to Montecito. Yeah.

I'm like, I know this is a long episode, so I'm like, I'm going to try to conclude this. No, you're fine. Sorry. I've just been like talking so much. I mean, there's just so much to say. No, I know. We could talk about this for like six hours. So they moved to Montecito. They have more privacy and safety. Harry comes out with this book spare. It spills the tea, like we've already kind of said throughout the episode, so I won't give it too much time. But, you know, he talks about his relationship with his family, the bridesmaids debacle. He says that sometimes him and William's fights would get physical. Yeah.

Brothers. And that William pinned him down and threw him into their dog bowl at one point, and his face was in the dog bowl. Wait, how old? In 2019. Because it's like, okay, if you were kids, it'd be kind of weird to tell that story, but that's

that he did that as an adult. Oh, yeah. He said that William was calling Meghan difficult, rude, and abrasive because there also had been rumors that Meghan was difficult to the staff at the palace and that, like, she bullied them. Like, that was, like, a big headline. And William was like, it's true. I've seen it. And Harry was like, no, she's just trying to, like...

stop the cycle and she's you know like but women are called divas when they have their like own boundaries kind of like it's princess diana shit too it's like the same any woman that comes into this family is like this is actually not okay with me they're gonna be called a diva so the book just i mean he like gets into it he also is like you know what

William and Kate were the ones that told me to wear that Nazi costume on Halloween. Which is like, honey, well, you did it. That's what I was about to say. Like, okay, yeah, maybe they did, but you did it. You did it. So you kind of can't, like, that's annoying to me. I'm like, you weren't tied down and helped, you know, like. What I would give to see the conversation of Meghan bringing up this picture to Harry is,

If you guys don't know, Prince Harry dressed up like a Nazi for Halloween one time in Vegas, I think, or something like that. Yeah. And yeah. Can you imagine finding out that your husband did something like that? No, I cannot. I would love to be there for that conversation. Same. I'm like, I feel like she was like, H, I'm so disappointed in you. Really disappointed in you. A hundred percent. Yeah.

And then he's like, you know, that he must have just been so embarrassed because he's like, he truly is a reforms party boy. And like a reforms, like conservative privilege, you know, like I feel like he used to like not be, he doesn't know what he knows now. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think he always has a good heart that's been hidden because he's gone through so much trauma in his life. You know, I agree. I agree. Um,

So he comes out with this book, and then I think this book with the documentary that comes out on Netflix is kind of this moment where people are like, you guys are so hypocritical. Do you want fame? Do you not want fame? Do you want people to keep talking about the royals? And they kind of were teetering that a little bit, and I did find that confusing and annoying. At the same time, I'm like, so now they're not getting money anymore from being royals, and they can't go get a regular job. They're not going to become royals.

a marketing, you know, like a copywriter at a marketing firm, like they kind of have to do these big books and shows and, and,

So I get it. But I'm also glad that they're past that phase of just talking about the Royals. They really wanted to share their side of the story because they felt like no one understood them. And that is a human reaction. And I get that. Like, I completely understand, especially if I felt like my whole life, my family has been controlling the narrative for me. Like, I would want to write a book in that way, too. Am I crazy for saying that it's okay to want to be famous but, like, still have some privacy? You know what I mean? Yeah.

I don't think it is. I don't think people don't understand that. They're like, if you want to be famous, then we get access to you because...

why yeah i mean i actually don't know why people feel that way i just think like and we've had this conversation on the show before too like if megan and harry are at an event that means they're working that means you can go up to them ask for a picture if they are at the farmer's market with their family maybe they're not working right then just because they're a celebrity doesn't mean that you have access to them exactly and i think

I relate to like being like, wait, no, I just want to like share this because everyone's been saying this one thing and I want to have an interview and I want to do a documentary about my life. And I think for Megan, she was like, I want people to know me for who I am instead of just like in my life before. And I enjoyed the episode of the doc that's just about her and her upbringing and her.

and on suits and stuff. And I was like, I get that. I would also want to be like, I'm a good person and I'm not this like villain that you guys think I am. So I understand. I think.

I think Megan does want to be famous. Like she does. She always has been. She always wanted to be famous. And I think that she wants to be famous without people hating her and without getting death threats. Well, I think now she's in a good phase of her life. And this is the perfect way to wrap it up because she now, you know, they've kind of let their story be told. They don't need to do another doc. They don't need to do another book. They're going to though. But they're going to.

And we'll do another episode on it. But so now she's like, okay, she came out with a children's book. It's called The Bench. She started this podcast, Archetypes, which was a Spotify original where she had A-list celebrities, including Serena Williams, Mariah Carey, Paris Hilton, and

She now has a podcast called Confessions of a Female Founder, talking to other female founders about their journeys. Call us. Call us, Megan. She has a Netflix home-making show called With Love, Megan, where she cooks and she says hosting tips and she looks really pretty. Guys, we're obsessed. We're obsessed with it. And now she has her own brand, which is called As Ever, which was originally named American Riviera Orchard.

But this is now her newest business venture and she's going to come out with jams and probably fashion at some point. And she's now just being the influencer that she wants without talking about being a royal.

And I'm happy for her. And that's Meghan Markle's story. Well done, Tess. I was just yapping away. I couldn't help it. It's so fun. There's so, so much to talk about and like have a conversation about. But well done. I mean, this could be a three-part episode because like I still have so much more to say. I know. It's hard because I think we've truly been going like an hour and a half. But I'm like, I feel like I even had to...

rush over things just to not make this two hours. But if you guys like this episode, we can, like, dive deeper into the Royals. We can do Harry. We can do, like... We can do all of it because we could talk about this forever. Yeah. And I just encourage you guys, like, you don't have to like her, but, like...

I hope that none of you Rammies are leaving really nasty comments on the internet because that's loser behavior and the Rammies aren't losers. But just like when, if we can just kind of refocus our attention to things that matter and like she is pretentious and let's laugh about it. Like she's so Helen from Bridesmaids. How funny. And anytime that you're like shitting on a woman on the internet, like that isn't, you know, like a politician or something that you're just kind of like, I don't like them because I don't like them. It just like, it perpetuates like

Things that we don't need as women and as a black woman. Like, she doesn't fucking need this. Like, just let her live her life. Let her. Kind of at the end of the day, you know? Transfer some peanut butter pretzels from one plastic bag to the next. And then tie it with a ribbon that she made in Africa. Like, let her do it. Let her do it. Oh, when I, um, when the first time I made honey, I harvested honey, it just tickled me. I was like, Megan, no.

I do need to like work on my impression of her. You know what she does a lot? Tell me. She, what she used to do in interviews, she'd go, you know, and I was observing, right? Right. I was observing. Like she'd always say, right.

And I was like, stop saying right. And I remember being like, I hate that she does this. I'm obsessed. What I would give to go have dinner, a boozy dinner in Montecito with Megan and Harry. Let's try to make it happen. No, I think we have to. We're manifesting this. Summer, guys, we're going to be in Montecito. We're going to be in Montecito. With our girl. Call us.

If you have any questions for Megan, let us know. We'll try to work our way in there. Exactly. Always thinking of you guys. Tess, that was so well done. Oh, good. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that. Make sure to follow us at Write Answers Mostly, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. Leave us a five-star review. Leave us a comment on Spotify.

Tell your friend about this episode. We love you guys. And I'm happy that we're back. We're back. Me too. Word of mouth really helps our show grow. So please, please, please tell your friends about Ram or post about it on social media. We get so excited when you guys do it. It's the best. We love you guys. We love you. We'll be back next week with Wallace Simpson, who made, not who made, oh my God, here I am, just perpetuating the narrative, who Prince Edward abdicated the royal crown for. Oh.

Guys, we're sticking to a theme and you know that we like that. We love that. So we will see you guys next week. See you next week. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.