Steve Madden: From Jail to Retail
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With 24-7 customer service available, Mochi Health is here to partner with you on your journey to a healthier life. Take the free quiz at joinmochi.com and use code AUDIO40 at checkout for $40 off your first month of membership. That's joinmochi.com. Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. I'm Claire Donald. And I'm Tess Paloma.

Hello, Tess. How are you in your Princess Diana sweater? I know it feels very Christmassy, but... See, black sheep. White sheep. Did she wear this or is this just representative of who she was in the royal family? I believe, and I can't believe I haven't even looked this up yet, I believe that she wore it.

Not this exact sweater, but I think she wore something very similar. And sending a message. Sending a goddamn message, as she always did. And so today on my morning walk, I wore it with my R. Hillary Clinton, but her email's cap. Of course. Which, of course, we've already gotten screamed at online about. You have? Have you? Yeah. Oh, I have not yet. Yeah.

Just on TikTok. Oh, okay. Well, of course. Well, I mean, if we're not getting screamed at on TikTok, are we even alive? Yeah. Is it even a week for us? Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so I'm feeling cozy. I'm feeling good. And you're about to travel. About to travel. I'm about to go to my... To prison. To prison. Yeah.

Our annual East Coast trip. We're going to do New York and then we're going to do Martha's Vineyard. If you haven't listened to our Chappaquiddick episode for all you new Rammies. Will you be making a trip to the Dyke Bridge? Of course. Do you think I should do some boots on the ground? No, I think that you need to do, again, like you have before, but revamp it in this new way of field reporting. More confidence this time. I think so. Okay. Yeah. I can even go live at the Dyke Bridge if you guys want that. Oh my God, tell

go live at the Dyke Bridge. Everyone's like, where are you? What are you talking about? Well, if you guys don't know, it's Kennedy. You guys are wanting Kennedy episodes. It all has to do with Martha's Vineyard. Ted Kennedy was there and a woman died. Yeah, so far that's our only Kennedy episode, right, that we've done? So far. So far. Guys, it's coming. But if you're needing a little fix, listen to the Chappaquiddick. The

Yeah, a murder, some might say. The murder, some might say. I mean, I would say. An accident, a murder, find out on our episode. I'll be traveling. I'm really excited for the East Coast. Always nice to go to New York and then have some family time. We have some dinners planned, and we'll be gallivanting around the city. I'm really jealous that you're going to New York this time of year. I know, but it is going to be...

pouring rain every day. Well, I hate that. So, and actually it's never happened to us because we usually go in June and it's always lovely and warm. Yeah, it's not great, Claire. Well, this is like really torture for you specifically with rain. East Coast girlies, what do you wear when it's 85 and pouring? Well, that's just like across the country. People have to deal with that on a regular basis to us. Yeah.

We're so spoiled with LA. So when I just came back from Atlanta and it was raining there until the weekend, like the first few days I was there and I was like, how do you people do it? I'm sorry. I really like the weather. I don't, I don't want to be dealing with this, but it's okay. Well, it will be fun. I mean, the good thing about New York too is that you can pop in and out of just like different bars and stores and just huddle up. Yeah. We'll be popping. What are you going to do? Well,

When I'm gone. What am I going to do when you're gone? Everyone is out of town right now, you guys. I mean, not everyone, but a lot of people. A lot of people are going to New York too. So I'm going to figure it out. I don't really know what I'm going to do. I think sometimes, like I was texting you this, sometimes the weekends where you're like, it's not my normal weekend can be very fun. I know. It can be. Yeah. I mean, I might try to just switch it up. Yeah. Try to switch it up. Like you maybe even see someone you haven't seen in a while and like go to the east side

Yeah, a little Eastside trip would be nice. Yeah, so maybe I'll do that. You might go see an outdoor movie. Well, I was going to go. So, Sinespia is this outdoor movie thing that they have in LA, and they're playing Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. It's sold out. So, I know. I was a little too late on that one. God damn it. I know. I know. But, like, personal life updates, I feel like I just have to talk about this. Joan Didion has left the building.

She has moved. She has moved. You guys, if you don't know my hummingbird who was becoming my personality, I loved her. We had a bond. She, so hummingbird made a nest outside my window. We named her Joan Didion. And then I was dog sitting Rex and I think he barked so much that she left. Oh, she might come back though. Well, I hope so. So I have a hummingbird feeder out in my tree now. So I'm inviting all of the hummingbirds to come live with me. I mean, that's

Beautiful. Yeah. And you know, it, it could be another hummingbird with the spirit of Joan Didion. She'll always be with you, you know? Yeah. I believe that too. We had a connection and she was in my life at the perfect time. So I just like, I truly think you turn 30 and then become a birdwatcher.

Apparently. I haven't gotten there yet, but who's to say? Well, it's only a matter of time. I mean, when we were in Carmel earlier this year, I went to Carmel with Tessa's family, and I was sitting at the table with our merch king, Adrian, and I was like, Adrian, what kind of bird is that? He knew it right away, and I was like, I knew you would. He's so passionate about it. He has the app that can listen and detect, which is like, there is an app for everything.

There is an app for everything. I love that. The fact that the hummingbird left the nest in my tree is the biggest update in my life. Take that as you will. That can be nice too. Honestly, that's beautiful. That is beautiful. I had a really great trip with my family in Atlanta. I went to go visit for my niece's birthday. Ada is four. That was gorgeous. I'm just happy to be back now. Professionally, we have a lot of stuff going on. There's a lot of stuff in the works. It's been blowing up.

You guys, like there's some exciting things going on behind the scenes of Ram. It's a huge moment for us. So we're busy, which is nice too. Then you can kind of have like peace. I know it's been busy days. And so every day I'm just looking forward to watching the pit at night.

I love that you're into a scripted show right now. Doesn't it feel so good? No, I'm obsessed. I only have two episodes left. Rammies, if you're watching The Pit, please DM us right now so we can talk about it. Kunal says it's like his favorite show of the year. No, same. I mean, Overcompensating was also amazing. Just like very different vibes. Yeah, it's incredible. Is it like a, is there like romance? Is it like a drama too? Or is it very medical?

No, no, no. There's like some romance. There's like real life shit happening all the time. And Noah Wiley, who's the lead guy, is so sexy. He's very, very cute. No, I can't wait. So on our For You page, some thirst videos, some thirst edits are going to start popping up because I'm going searching for them. I understand. I haven't seen them yet, but I always know what you're into by what's popping up. Are you going to Portugal? I knew you were

going to Portugal? We're considering perhaps for a stop on the honeymoon, but we haven't fully got, we haven't fully fleshed out what we're doing. And we should actually really plan that if we're supposed to be going in two months.

I figured that might be it. I'm like, why is all this like tourism to Portugal popping up? And I was like, oh, they might be adding it to the honeymoon. We're looking into Lisbon. Have heard very good things. Have heard it's very fun. If you guys have any ideas on where we should go for our honeymoon, let us know where you've gone before, where it's romantic. Well, from the TikToks, it looks lovely. It does look lovely. We would then kind of change it up and do a different version if we went to.

Lisbon. So we're thinking you guys, we have mom talk season two, full recap out now.

Get on Premium Kids. It's so fun. You can also save money if you sign up annually. I feel like we haven't mentioned that for a while and you know like summer deals. It's a summer deal. Summer deal. So it's $7.99 a month or? $79.99 a year. Yes, exactly. So you get like a month free or something like that with it. Yeah, sign up. It's so fun. It is so fun and you get on our close friends list on Instagram where you can see hidden stories and posts. So it's great. All of the tea.

All of the tea is on premium. Okay, Tess, should we get into it? Let's get into it. Okay, well, this man is trending right now on the internet, and he is someone who has been such a big part of my life. We are doing the one, the only Steve Madden. What a treat. We'll see where it goes. We will see where it goes. I mean, I'm excited. Tess, what do you know about Steve Madden? What's been your story with Steve Madden? I really loved his shoes growing up.

And got, like, especially in, like, 2014, 2015, like, got more into Steve Madden. His, like, the high, like, the chunky. The chunky sandal. The chunky sandal with the strap just that goes. Yes. It's like this chunky slide. They, those shoes make your legs look so good on everybody. They're universally just so chic. Yeah.

He's very affordable. Yes. But also, can't you just shut your eyes and picture exactly what that sandal feels like on your foot right now? And the ASMR of that's like smacking the heel down the street. Sliding it in and then smacking it. Yes. It's tight. It's tight. I love that shoe.

Sadly, it broke on vacation. Oh, no. And I never got a new pair. But I know that he was like – I mean, I'm trying to remember what his character was in like Wolf of Wall Street that he – I think it was just like his stocks were really successful at one point. Oh, we'll be talking about that. Yeah. We'll be talking about Wolf of Wall Street. Oh, Leo, my love. Yeah.

Yeah. I have a very similar experience with Steve Madden. I feel like so many of us grew up wearing his shoes because he had very fashionable shoes that were affordable and like still are very affordable. I mean, personally, I brought out my Steve Madden shoes, the shoes I wore to the white party. These should be put in the Ram museum. I agree.

So I got these for the white party. If you are watching on YouTube, you can see. If you're not, I'll describe them for you. They're green heels with, like, these gorgeous flowers on top. And the minute I saw them, I saw them online, and then I was like, I have to get them. I also wore them to Tess's bridal shower. They're so good. I can just, like, picture your legs in them right now. Oh, my God. Wow. Thank you so much, Tess. Very nice. And then I also have these slides. I just – I have always loved Steve Madden as a brand because, yeah, I mean, he does –

Well, I'm not even going to say he knocks off fashion designers because that's a whole other discussion that we will talk about soon. But don't they all? But don't they all? And that's like kind of his point. Yeah, I'm kind of over that thing in life, you know? Just like everything's a knockoff. Podcasts are a knockoff. Fashion's a knockoff. Songs are a knockoff.

There's like four original ideas, right? And then everything is just like imitation from that. Exactly, Claire. Also, he's just been so much in the internet right now and I feel like a whole new generation is discovering him because he was on this podcast, The Cutting Room Floor. Yeah.

which look, I need to listen to her more because every interview clip I've seen of her, it's a fashion podcast and it just, she seems on it. I know fashion. I would like to listen to more fashion podcasts actually. Well, we are fashion girlies. We are fashion girlies guys. We really, we like, we like it. Yeah. So, okay, let's get into Steve Madden. My sources, um, the Peacock documentary, mad man, the Steve Madden story. Oh,

Wikipedia, of course. ChatGPT, of course. Have we? No. I think that we need to sit on that a little bit because ChatGPT will... I have an idea for something.

I do as well, but let's simmer maybe. Let's simmer. Do you want to do what should we say? Say. It's brain-throwning. I'm kind of like – it's just like our new life partner in a way. You know what I mean? Like you go to them for support, for some answers. Yes. You also don't always have to agree with ChatGPT. Yes, exactly. And they start to talk in your language. Or is ChatGPT our best friend? I don't know. I'm simmering. What do you think? ChatGPT almost seems like our really like –

renowned like boss our boss well we all will be working for the robots and they will be stealing our jobs one day so yeah like almost like our like boss that's just seen it all and is really fucking smart and we're really intimidated by them I don't know if it's a man or a woman yet yeah yeah but how

But husband. Or non-binary. Maybe Chachi PT is non-binary. A hundred percent. I just don't know. Yeah. We've yet to assign a spouse to Ram. Yeah. I think that let's sit with that for a little bit. And Rami's let us know what you think about it too. I think that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. And then finally the podcast, The Cutting Room Floor, which this episode was only available on Patreon. What a smart business move by her. That is really smart. Oh, I saw that, that you had bought something on Patreon. Yeah, I did. What's my baby up to? Write it off. It's right on the car. Well,

Okay, so Steve Madden was the first person to democratize on trend shoes. He's the grandfather of this whole movement, says former Sassy Magazine fashion editor Andrea Lee Lynette. And it's so interesting because he's such a household name, right? Like everyone knows the shoe Steve Madden, but if you were walking down the street, do you know what he looks like?

Only from the actor in Wolf of Wall Street? Like he's like a brunette white dude? So he was actually strawberry blonde. He is a white dude, but now he's bald and just like he wears like he's kind of like muscly and wears kind of a tight tee and like a New York Yankees cap. Is he straight? He is straight. Interesting. Straight man that loves women's shoes. Respect. Respect. Also, the actor who played Steve Madden in Wolf of Wall Street was Dustin Hoffman's son. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Is he an actor? Yeah.

I mean, apparently. Well, of course. I guess if I were Dustin Hoffman's son, I'd be like, put me in, coach. What else am I going to do? Put me in. Okay, let's get into his life, shall we? Steve Madden was born on March 23rd, 1958. Pisces. Aries. I always get that messed up. Well, listen, it's all so close together, right? Aries is, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's right before Pisces.

Aries is right before Taurus, isn't it? That's right. Yeah. Also, you guys, we have an astrology expert coming on next week. Check it out. We cried. It's so good. It's so interesting. Yeah, it was so fun. Okay, so Steve Madden, he's an Aries king. He was born in Queens, though, and he grew up in Long Island. He is the youngest of three boys. He is the son of an Irish Catholic father who was a textile manufacturer, and his mom was Jewish and a housewife. Okay.

And growing up, we have another bratty subject. He's brat? He's brat. He was legitimately brat because growing up at 13 years old, he would sneak out of the house and go to the clubs. Oh, he was a little party boy. Yeah, so he was very brat in that way and then brat in actually being bratty.

Right. He's like, he was the kid. Like, we can also put him in the category of Pete Davidson and like, what are we, Andy Sandberg? Okay. Like, class clown cute? I think, yeah, I think he had that vibe. I feel like he had the razz as a kid. Okay. And he was also very artsy, but both of his parents grew up in the Great Depression, and so they constantly instilled a fear of not having money onto their kids. Right.

And like, because his dad worked at a textile manufacturer, we think fashion, but it was very like business. It was not like creative at all. And so because of this, like create creativity was never nurtured in his house. It was like, you got to get the paycheck and you're not going to do that by being an artist. Exactly. It's like, who has the time to be an artist? Yeah. So,

So that's what he was dealing with. In high school, he gets a job at a shoe store. So this is where shoes are being introduced to our story. He works in the basement of this, and this is the early 70s at this time. And so glam rock was like huge at this time, like David Bowie and all the rock stars at that point. And what they were wearing was platform shoes.

I love a platform. The thing with these platforms is that men were like really leading the charge with this in the 70s because Glam Rock was like very androgynous, which I'm sure short kings all over the world really love that. Thank God. Thank God, Ramona. Thank God. So Steve was in the basement working and he tries on a pair of platforms and I think he was like, ooh, ah, I love these. I like my legs in them. Yes, exactly. He's like, these are sick. I'm in love with shoes now. And he's like, I'm so...

sick of being in this godforsaken basement I've got to get up on the main floor and sell some goddamn shoes I understand I also would not do well in a basement me either so he gets onto the main floor and he just becomes obsessed with selling shoes like he would love when a woman would walk in and he could see what's trending and help her style her outfit and like he was like it was manufacturing her life and being like what girl are you going to be today shoes are so interesting I

Did you ever work in retail? No, I've never worked in retail. I have, but only in high school. And the shoe part of it was my least favorite part. How come? Because you had to go get so many boxes. And especially like at the shoe store that I sold or that I worked or at the clothing store I worked at, we sold Tom's, Tom's? Tom's.

we sold twom's shoes and I hated that no one like thought that they fit them it was just like such a mess also you're dealing with feet which are tinky well also Tom's made your feet tinky and like did anyone's foot fit into a Tom no it was like shoe binding why is that so hard to say yeah it was not comfortable they'd be like wet when you took them off it's true though even if you like weren't sweaty you're like why like

Why are they like this? Someone just did a collaboration. Oh, Jamie. He and Mizrahi. Okay, so maybe Toms are making a comeback. Which, God, she is chic, and she does some chic-ass work. I know. When Erin Foster posted them, I was like, am I going to get Toms? You know I love a trend. You know I love a trend. I can't help it. I think a lot of millennial lore is coming back, so we might all be wearing Toms. Watch us on our next episode. We'll have stinky wet Toms on.

That's okay. Yeah. So anyway, I really didn't like the shoe part. I mean, I love shoes, but I just didn't like carrying all these boxes out that always fell over. It was just a mess. That's exhausting. Yeah. But he loved it. He got a rush out of it and he loves seeing like why certain shoes became so big and popular. Yeah.

So he found something he was really good at. Like he was really good at being on the floor, but then he had to let it go because it was time for college. And at this time and with his family, like we know his parents, they're not going to be like, you could sit college out if you wanted to.

They're like, you have to go to college. And so he goes to the University of Miami. Oh, because he's a party boy. Oh, my God. And honey, are we partying? This was pre-AIDS. And so everyone was just living free, baby. Hook up with whoever you want. Snort whatever you want. Like jewelry was a cocaine spoon at this time.

Yeah. Wow. When his friend, when they asked his friend on the documentary, they were like, what was Steve like at this time? He just responded stoned. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, God, it's always been a party school, hasn't it? Yeah. What makes something a party school? Well,

the environment... Like, Miami is a party city anyways. That's true. Do we have any Rammys that went to University of Miami? Yeah, like, what was it like? I mean, I only know about it from Alex Earl, and it just seemed... I've never felt more old watching anybody. Oh, my God. Well, Miami... I've never been to Miami before. I'd love to go. Have you not? No. I think we...

Oh, my God. We would have such a fun girls trip there. I really like Miami. He was, like, enjoying Miami way too much that his dad was like, you're fucking around. Like, you're not even focusing on school, so I'm going to pull you out of school. I'm not paying for college anymore. Were his grades bad? Yeah. His grades weren't great, but you know what? They figured out later on, part of that, I mean, yes, the partying, but part of that was because he had ADD. Hmm.

And they didn't understand that at all at the time. So it's like he had a really difficult time in school because of that. Yeah. And this is also why he started self-medicating because of the ADD. And then he started leaning into the drugs and alcohol even more because of that. Well, I mean, that makes sense if you're like, I don't feel normal and trying to neutralize myself. I mean, it all makes sense now. And it's sad that they didn't have the resources back then to identify that. I know.

So he has to leave Miami and he goes back home and he starts working at a shoe store. And this is where he really, again, he goes back to what he knows, what he loves. And this is where you get his fun, his fundamentals and selling shoes on the floor. And eventually, you know, long islands can only go so far for a man with Steve spirit, you know? So he's like, I got to get out into the city, baby. And he gets out of his, he gets a job at a store called LJ Simone. Um,

And moving to the city for him was everything he thought it would be. Wow. And this is early 80s New York. He's living in the village, and that was his spot. And of course, when you think of early 80s New York, what do you think is going on there? Cocaine. Oh, okay. Yeah. There could be so many things. Yeah, I was like, what avenue? How dark do we want to go? Yeah. Yeah.

Cocaine. But you know what they said was like their friend group's main drug of choice? I bet you can guess this. Ecstasy? No. Quaaludes. Oh, of course. Quaaludes. The lewds. I feel like Quaaludes has been such like a thorough line and ram. What are Quaaludes like going to make a comeback?

Well, that's a great question. You know, the way that he described it, which to me, I imagine Quaaludes as being very sedative, but the way he described it, he was like, when you take a Quaalude and we are not promoting drugs, I'm just explaining what his experience was on Quaaludes. He was like, you feel very tingly at first. And then it's like, you love everybody and you're just very warm and fuzzy. So it sounds like exactly from what we've heard, from what we've heard, it sounds like that drug Molly. Yeah.

Interesting. That one drug molly. Yeah, isn't that interesting? So his friend group was like big into the Quaaludes. Well, yeah. And that's also before people knew like what drugs do to your brain. So you're just like popping it left and right. On it constantly, which is crazy. Oh my God. The scene of Leo on too many Quaaludes. If you guys haven't seen that, he should have won an Oscar for that scene alone. Okay. I'm so glad that we are going to talk about Wolf of Wall Street because the fact that Leonardo DiCaprio did not win an Oscar for this movie is such a crime. Crazy that he won it for...

The Revenant. The Revenant. Which I know. I know. I've seen like three. I saw it three times in theaters, I think. Which shocks me. I think it's a shocking movie to see more than once in theaters. Definitely. But God, it's so good. I don't know. I think I was like dating a guy who, I don't know. He's like, this is the movie to see. You want to see art? Yeah. Oh my God. Wall Street. He's so good in it. Well, also we have to bring it back to what's eating Gilbert Grape.

Yeah, I'm sorry to take it there. And that's one of those movies that was on a lot in my household as a kid, I feel like for some reason. Sick.

Better make me feel sick to my stomach. Same, but I couldn't like not watch it. I mean, it's such a dark movie, but I was always just fascinated. I feel like that's kind of an obscure movie that like both you and I share the fact that we watched so much as a kid. It was always on at my grandparents' house, my dad's parents' house. And I would just be like sitting there and watching them watch it. And that was one of the first moments I was like, am I...

attracted to Leonardo DiCaprio. You know, to be completely frank, was that before Titanic? God, it may have been right after. So I was already like, this is my love. And then I was like, oh. I was young, you know? I was trying to figure it out, but I remember being like, I mean, not no. And you know what? That's a beautiful thing, Tess. Not no. And I agree. Love and light, you know? She's a gal. Yeah.

Oh my God. Okay. So how do we get back to Steve Madden? Okay. So Steve, he's doing everything a hundred percent and we will learn this from his personality, by the way, like his drive for success, all of that is a hundred percent. And unfortunately that's also his relationship with drugs and alcohol. It was like, if we're going to do it, we're going to do it. So he has some addict tendencies. Yeah. He, uh, he got about five DWIs. Like it was a major issue. What's,

D.W.I. Driving while intoxicated. And I don't know what the difference is of D.W.I. and D.U.I. God, he got these in New York? Yeah. It's like, babe, why are you even driving? Take the subway. Take a cab. Walk. Take anything. New York would be the easiest place to be inebriated and not drive. There is no excuse to have a D.W.I. in New York. No, none at all. Take a city bike. Do anything else. Truly. Be like Leo. Leo is the third co-host of this episode.

Of this episode. And we always knew we would get there. Truly. Well, so he realizes, okay, I need to get sober. And he does. So he's working still at that shoe store, LJ Simone, for eight years. But eventually he's like, I'm so over this. I want to work for myself. So in 1990, he just quits. And he's like, I'm going to do my own thing. He's 32 years old at this time.

So 32 years old, 1990, with just a $1,100 investment, Steve Madden started his own shoe company out of the trunk of his car in Queens.

He had enough to where he starts, like he hires 10 to 15 people and he would design. And I believe he would make some shoes too out of the garage of his building. And he focused on chunky, edgy, affordable women's shoes inspired by street style and pop culture. So he's already targeting like a younger audience and being like, what are the youth wearing? What are they wanting? How can I get these shoes to them? But without the luxury price.

Wow. Which, what a king. Like, God bless. Literally. We need you, Steve. We need you. So he started out by having 500 pairs of shoes made to his own design, and he just starts selling them to New York City stores, department stores, from the trunk of his car. His driver said that he was obsessive about the shoes. He also hired his doorman at his building. He was like, you want to come work for me? And then he became his driver. And he said he...

No. God, if I were a celebrity or really rich, a driver would be at the top of my list of luxury experiences that I would have. 100% agreed. He said he was like obsessed with shoes. He would just like put shoes on the dashboard and then pick them up and smell them. I did that in the documentary too. Like a new shoe? Well, yes. Yeah. Because otherwise I'm like, I think that's mental illness. Yeah, it doesn't sound –

Great. If you smelling old shoes or shoes that he's worn. Yeah. Like the smell of like, like a new, like, I mean, I love shoes by more of a purse girly, like smell of like new leather. Like when you're just like, it's fresh. Like I get it. It's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. So he, he would go around to stores, sell them. He actually eventually opened his own store in downtown New York in 1993 and

But he was like, I need something major to, like, really break out as a designer. Like, every pop star has their breakout song. I need my breakout shoe. Smart. Right? So he creates his version of the Mary Jane shoe, which –

I'm sure Rami's know, but a Mary Jane is just like a pretty simple black shoe with like a black strap over it. Classic. I know. I really want one now, actually. Yeah. I got Mary Jane's as an option for Watch What Happens Live from Amazon with a platform heel. They were so hideous. I can't believe we've never even talked about this.

I don't think I've ever seen them, but the way that you're describing them sounds like the shoe that Steve Madden designed. I think it was a knockoff Amazon version, but they were not, they would have had to be worn with something so specific. Yeah. I think it's when I was thinking of wearing black sheer tights. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you still have them? Where are they?

Where are they? I want to say I donated them actually during the fires. Yeah, and someone's like, I really needed these. You know, it's like she says in Clueless when she's donating her ski items. Daddy, those people lost everything. It's so true, Tess. Thank you for taking it there. Of course.

You're so right. So he designs this version of the Mary Jane shoe and he calls it the Mary Lou. It was a big toed Mary Jane style patent leather. I'm like, what's this your shoe? And he made it for the market that we're targeting the youth. Again, we're always talking about the youth. The youths.

Yeah. So he was like going to New York Fashion Week and just looking at what they were putting out and then kind of reinterpreting it in his own way. And of course, this makes the high end fashion people pissed off. They're panicking. Even the row. He has his version of the row like plastic sandals right now. And I think are not sandals, but they're like little flats and the row selling it for seven hundred dollars.

And I think that Steve Madden's is like $70 right now. That's what Hannah was saying on her podcast. And of course, I went to go look at both of them. And I was like, oh, yeah. I mean, I guess I see it from both sides. Like, I'd be pissed too if I were the row. But at the same time, it's a completely different clientele.

Well, exactly. Okay. So he actually ends up saying that. And on the cutting room floor, he was like, it's like calling the Beatles a knockoff band because they would take a little bit from Mozart and a little bit from Elvis. Like everyone's taking a little bit from everywhere. And he said, we get, um, this was in some article. He said, we get no credit from the design community. Are we in fit?

influenced by Christian Louis Vuitton. Of course we are. He's brilliant, but we are for the most part creating new shoes every day and they don't get it. I'm not in the CFDA, but pep daddy is. And that's a joke for our market. He said, we are the Christian Louis Vuittons.

That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially with fashion. I don't know. Like, everyone is copying each other. Right. And also, I love what he said about, like, for our market, for our girls, we are the Louis Vuittons. Like, we are the shoes that they love, that they can afford, that are fashionable. Like, not all of us can just go buy plastic $700 shoes. Literally. And not everyone can even buy them.

can even buy $79.99 shoes that he comes out with. Like, so he, I respect that he's like, this is still like a big deal for a lot of people to even be, to be able to buy my shoes. Yeah, exactly. Like, fuck off. I know. I love that. I love the way that he handled that and owned up to it too. It's like, yeah, we are taking influences from it. That's the way to respond. But,

But he was just, at this time, with these shoes, he's helping define the 1990s teen fashion. Like, think Spice Girl vibes. Think Delia's catalog. Oh, the Delia's catalog test. I'm thinking about it. Did you get Delia's? Mm-mm. You didn't? Okay, so I did, but I got Delia's more like 2006 Delia's, not 90s Delia's. 2006. Yeah, I didn't have Delia's. Yeah, I'm like, what was I wearing in 2006?

Oh, I love Delia's. Yeah, I completely missed that. Yeah, but it was like so of this time. And he is helping define that. So he's growing. And then Tess, he gets a call from his childhood friend, Danny. And Danny says, we're looking for companies to raise money for. We'll raise money for you that you need to create a successful business. Danny was like, I have this genius guy behind our company named Jordan. Wow.

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Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So he's like, Hey, I see what you're doing with these shoes. Like Steve Madden wasn't like a complete nobody. Like people were wearing his shoes, but he was like nowhere near to where he is now. Yeah, exactly. So he was like, we have this brokerage house called Stratton Oakmont or sorry, Stratton Oakmont Inc. And it's a brokerage firm, which if you told me that, I'm like, I have no idea what that means.

Brokerage firm? Yeah, stocks. I think they help raise money for people. Yeah, they help invest in different things. I think so. You guys, right answers mostly. We are not a stock episode or podcast. Absolutely not. But everyone should have some stocks for the girlies. Well, I really want some stocks. We'll talk offline. Okay, we'll talk offline. Because it's so like everyone can do it. Yeah, well, actually, we have an ad for this. Acorns. We do, you guys.

This isn't even an ad. This is not an ad, but I'm about to record an ad for it. So maybe I'll bring this up. Truly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's important for the women. It is. I want it. Okay. So Danny calls him and this is early nineties, wall street and Jordan, Jordan Belfort created this aura around him and guys were just obsessed with him. And in all of him, he was able to take industry outsiders and like high school dropouts and overnight turned them into like,

Yes, it's crazy. It's crazy. And he really was like, this is for the average guy that was never respected in high school. And now you're going to be filthy rich. And they were like, yeah. I mean, it was such a boys club. It is very manipulative. Exactly. And then these guys' tests were just like long.

Long Island partiers. They would present this luxury lifestyle to these entrepreneurs. Like they would pick them up in helicopters and take them on yachts and they had the best drugs and women and money, like gym bags full of cash. And Steve Madden on his documentary said that in the movie, they captured it perfectly. It was exactly like that. That is terrifying. Literally like animal house, like, like.

strippers in the middle of the office, you know, in the office in the middle of the day doing cocaine off of their bodies in the workplace. Like, I think that there was actually a monkey in the office too. Like, everything was completely accurate, which I would... There's like no place that I would feel more unsafe. I feel... I mean, the women in that... I mean, there was probably like five women in the office. I think the movie shows that, like mostly secretaries, but like there was also a few brokers that were women. Yeah, yeah. They must...

I mean, they must have been sexually harassed left and right. Well, and I feel like they must have had to be, like, extra callous because, I mean, just any woman in the workforce in general. Well, there's that scene of them shaving one of the women's head.

heads. Right. And all of them laughing and saying, we'll give you like $10,000 if we can do this right now. And she's like crying. I'm like, oh, that was probably the energy. I mean, you know that it was disgusting. And like, so Steve was sober at this time. So it's like the drugs and like all of that wasn't that intoxicating to him. But you know what was? The money, honey. So he was able to stay sober during this? Yes. He was sober during this whole time.

God, that is a testament to his sobriety. His sobriety and his program. God, no kidding. So he said that he did what he had to do to make some money and build a business with it. So as the Mary Lou is starting to take off, like people are noticing it, Danny was like, Steve, we can get you so much more money. You know what? In fact, we can take your company public.

Which is crazy because Steve Madden has one store at this point. And so like take a company public from that is just unheard of. Damn. So Danny was like, okay, Steve, you got to go talk to the brokers though. Like you got to go make them believe that they should be selling your stock. Like what this is all about, which this whole scene is in the movie. It's.

It's so good. It's so good. He's like, go get him pumped up. It's going to be great. And again, Steve said that it was exactly how it was on the movies, that there was like 500 guys in the office just like heckling him. He said it was just like they were animals. Steve also was like, I wasn't as dorky as they said in the movie from my point of view. Sure, honey. Sure.

Yeah. Whatever you need to tell yourself. Um, so he's up there talking and they're all basically just like, you are a fucking dork. Like get out of here. And then Jordan takes over. And Steve said, Jordan was truly, he's just like a dictator. Like when people, when he talked, people listened and they would do anything that he said. And so he gets on the mic and he was like, call your clients and shove Steve Madden down your, down their throats. And

And so this is what we know today as pumping and dumping with stocks, which I had to ask ChatGPT about this all day. I was like, what does this mean? Well, what's pumping and dumping? Here's how this works. So you buy cheap stocks. So Jordan and Danny buy a large amount of low-priced, thinly traded stocks, usually called penny stocks, which I think we talked about this in Ron. Oh, my –

a blast from the past. Oh my God. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. So penny stocks are usually stocks under $5 or not listed as on any major exchanges. And Steve Madden, their stock started out as $4. So it was low. And then they aggressively promote the stock often using false or misleading information. So in Wolf of Wall Street in the nineties, they only had phones like to promote it in this way. So they would call all of their clients and be like, you, this shoe company is like the

biggest thing. Everyone wants it. You have to buy stock now. It's about to explode. So everyone starts buying it. Now people do this still with like social media and like influencers will promote these stocks. Oh, interesting. Isn't that interesting? And, um, you know, fake news, insider tips, email blasts, all, all of the above. And so then as more people buy in thinking it's a great opportunity, the price skyrockets. This is the pump part of it.

And then right when it skyrockets, that's when Danny and Jordan sell their shares of the stock. And that's called the dump. So the scammers sell their inflated shares for a massive profit.

And then once they crash out, the stock tanks, often within hours or days. Regular investors lose their money. Interesting. Okay. This makes sense. Yeah. So it's like we're building them up to fall. It's all fluff. Sketchy. Sketchy. So it's on Tess. They made $22 million in three hours. Wow.

Which, Clariculator, is the equivalent today of about $49 million of Steve Madden stock in three hours. He has one store in New York. So how much money did he make? Well, okay, so that's actually kind of what I am...

about because so he is making money. Like he went from an eviction notice to a private jet in 200 days to having a private jet. So he's making like a ton of money. But what Steve didn't know was that Jordan and Danny secretly owned 85% of his company. Honey, read the contract. I know.

Claire and I are learning this the hard way still. Yeah, we sure are. Which I'm like kind of confused on how that worked. So sometimes they would do transactions in his name, but the transactions were really for themselves. 85%? Oh, God. Yeah. And so he was like, they're buying and selling. So Steve was like, they're buying and selling for me. So how can it really be illegal?

But it was. And I'm still kind of confused on like how they ended up owning 85% of his company. I mean, they may have just like manipulated him or just been like, look, we're doing this for you. So that's kind of like how it works. We're going to make you rich anyway. I think that they were like, we're going to make you rich anyways. Let us handle all of your money and all of your stocks and don't ask questions. And I think Steve was like, sure. Like, I don't think that he knew at all. Yeah.

Yeah, and if they promise him wealth, then he was like, do whatever then. He gave Jordan and Danny stock in exchange for taking his company public. So this was essentially a kickback, which is illegal if it's not disclosed and is part of a scheme to defraud investors. Yeah. So I think Steve knew more than he would like to say, but it's also like, it's the 90s. It's Wall Street. Like, whatever. Yeah. God, wealth can blind you. So yeah, it's fraud.

It's fraud. It's fraud. So yes, he is like participating in this with them, but his company is actually growing really rapidly at this time. And it wasn't just because of the stocks. He did have the, his finger on the pulse of fashion and he had this system of test and react. So his headquarters and it's like where his,

cobbler station it's so funny the word cobbler because I truly well listen I think of elves and I know that's Keebler not cobbler but it also just seems so archaic I just think of a peach cobbler oh well I love that same but it's like are there cobblers these days

A cobbler is technically someone that makes shoes. Makes shoes. So I guess there are. I think so. I mean, there's one in Brentwood, like an old school. Yeah, on San Vicente. Yeah, I just have to imagine that it's like an old man with like little circle glasses working there. I literally think it's what it still is.

We should go on a field trip and we'll let you guys know. Yeah. So because his headquarters and his little factory were close to his stores, he would design a shoe, make like eight to ten of them, put them in the store. If they immediately sold out, they're like, put an order for 500 in right now. So they had the advantage of speed to market that a lot of other companies did not have. Holy shit. Holy shit.

Which is also just so smart. It's like, why would you not do that? And also, guys, like, this is just such a different world than we live in now. There wasn't online shopping. So it's like you could see right away if people were coming in and buying it if it was working. I didn't even think about that. I know. I miss the days of going to a fall. And just being – I know. It's like everything in life now. It's all kind of, like, subdued a little bit because we have so much –

serotonin from the internet. I know. You know? Yeah. I'm just not the best online shopping girly. I mean, I really love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I really do. But I'm kind of addicted to it. So that's another story. So they're thriving off of a speed to market. And then in 1997, they launched the big head campaign. Have you seen their old ad campaigns?

Why does it sound familiar to me? In 97, I'm going to look it up. Yeah, just Google Steve Madden big heads and they're going to pop up. So this is like what they're still known for. Claire, I completely forgot about this. Is it all coming back to you now? It's all coming back to me. I'm like, why did they do this?

do this? Okay. So he was inspired actually by Eloise at the Plaza, that book, because he's like, it's so much whimsy and exaggerated and exaggerated aesthetic. And so he's like, I want to do something similar to that. Cause I feel like my market of women or girls that are buying for me will relate to this. And so they just like look crazy.

It looks pretty crazy, but it's quite different than probably anything else that was... Exactly. And so it stuck with people. And actually, this campaign inspired the design of Bratz dolls later on. Guys, once again, everything is taken in the artiste world. So this is also the time that we see the platform sandal. And so that's major...

And Tess, in 1993, his sales were $5 million. In 1998, his sales were $83 million. A year? A year. A year.

Good for him. Good for him. And by this time, he had stopped working with Jordan and Danny. He was sketchy as hell. Yeah. And I think he's like, I actually don't need you guys anymore. I'm going to do this the right way. So he stopped working with them. He got out of that. And in 2000, he officially distanced himself from Jordan and Danny as their legal troubles was starting to...

Yeah, because he could have been, what's it called, indicted? Well, Tess, our story is not over yet. Oh. Initially, he pays former Stratton execs $4 million to settle claims stemming from his association with the company. But then the company was shut down by regulators, and both Jordan and Danny were eventually convicted. As those guys start getting arrested, Steve is like, pop.

God. Can you imagine? I could never, I couldn't sleep at night. Can't escape your past. Can you test? You cannot escape your past. And so they actually bring Steven. They want him to wear a wire and to like, and would that be indicting his other friends? We still, we always don't know what indicting means on Ram. So someone please give us the official DMS and give us the official definition. Um,

If you're indicted, I think that means like you are like, but no, I'm thinking of subpoenaed. I think when you're like called in to talk to someone, um,

Let us know. Let us know, lawyer Rammies. Please. So he, but he was like, I'm not going to wear a wire and like be a rat. Oh, was he like, those are my boys? Yeah. He was like, snitches get stitches. I'm not doing it. Also, like when you guys Google or go watch, honestly, go watch that interview with him on the cutting room floor. He's so this guy, he just seems like the coolest guy to hang out with. But you know, he's like, these are my dudes. Like, I'm not going to do that.

God, I'm like, I'd wear a wire if that were going to like, cause then you're like, get to know he could have not to you, but to someone that like, I don't know. Also test though. We have our own language in a way that like you could wear a wire and I, we could have a whole other conversation and they would never know. Wow. Like, and if I were wearing a wire, not like I would do this to you, but if I were, I'd be able to like, look at you and be like, yeah,

Like, we just know immediately. And then somehow I'd be like, she's wearing a wire. Yeah, we'd have, like, some code word or just a look. I do think that we should talk offline, you know, like how moms have a code word for kids. Kidnapping. Yeah, kidnapping, picking them up from school. Let's have a code word for if one of us is wearing a wire. That's such a good idea. Offline, though, because, you know, they're always watching. I already have some ideas. Okay, great.

Okay. So Steve was like, nope, I'm not doing it. So Tess, unfortunately during this time while he's going to court, it's too much for him and he does relapse. Oh, he does? I know, which is such a bummer. It's like you made it through Jordan Belfort. You made it through monkeys that were like being, I shouldn't even say. God.

I know. It's really, it's really sad. But like, I, who could blame him? I mean, was he like my whole career could go under my business, my life. Well, he said his greatest fear in life ever, which I think a lot of people would share would be going to prison. And unfortunately, Tess, that fear was realized. Oh, he went to prison?

In 2002, Steve Madden was convicted of stock manipulation, money laundering, and securities fraud. He was sentenced to 41 months in prison. Did he have to stay the whole time? I think half gone out, but I think he did stay most of the time. Damn, it's like two years in prison for – God, it's like – Wait, no. Well, it's like – Three years? No, that's – 12 times 2 is 24. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a long time for little Steve. No, it is a long time. And it's like just such – it sucks because it's like, yes, he was involved. He kind of knew what he was doing, but it's not like as much as – but it is what it is. It's giving air to Jane, honestly, where it's like I kind of –

And then you're like, well, you still have to, there's still, you know, a price to pay. Yeah. That's if you weren't a wire, you wouldn't have to spend three years. No, he definitely wouldn't have. And also like Jordan and Danny, obviously they did all of this, but Jordan and Danny weren't household names.

Steve Madden was. So it's kind of almost like the Martha Stewart thing with like, God, we've done so much stock insider trading. I didn't even realize where it's like you're a celebrity. We have to make a name for yourself or an example out of you. Wow. We have done a lot of insider trading and we still don't even know what a broker is. It's so us. It's so us.

We've done so many law and stock things and we don't know what we're talking about at all. Guys, our brains are just always filled with so much information that it's hard to tap into it. Yeah, like what are we supposed to do? What do you expect from us? What's the gal supposed to do? So unfortunately for Steve, he has to go to prison. Not only prison, he has to go to prison in Florida. And he's like on, is he withdrawing from, having withdrawals from like drugs? He actually didn't talk about that.

God, that must be. He was like prison was worse than he thought, actually. Oh, but also just a quick note. He was made to resign as CEO from Steve Madden, but he remained on as creative director.

So he'd just be taking calls from prison? Yes, he was designing shoes in prison. Well, that must have been a nice way to pass the time. I know. Well, okay, so let's talk about his time in prison. Yeah, he said it was worse than you thought. He was at Eglin Federal Prison in Florida. It's a minimum security prison where a lot of white-collar criminals landed. But he said about 10% of the prison was white-collar crimes, and then it was a lot of drug dealers, drug

Nonviolent crimes. That kind of stuff. Were people kind to him? He ends up getting the nickname The Cobbler. But he actually starts making friends there.

That's nice. Yeah. He made a lot of relationships there today. Some of his cellmates are regional branch managers at Steve Madden in different parts of the country. That's amazing. Yeah. So he did a lot with his time in prison, actually. He was literally networking. He was truly networking. He was so busy working. Capricorn has to be in his chart somewhere. This would be you in prison too. You come out being like, look, I have a whole business now. I have...

have like a ton of employees and business and we're starting today. Truly.

I feel like, no, I mean, like prison is obviously like my torture because it's being like inside for most of the day. And like, I would have to be working. No, it's not. It's not for us. Also, he said he wasn't. And this again is like why it would be so torturous. He said he wasn't mad more than just like extremely sad. He said there was this extreme heartbreak of being in prison and knowing that the whole rest of the world is functioning around you.

And when he initially goes into prison, his shoe sales just start plummeting. Because people are like, he's a bad guy. Yep.

Exactly. And I think the whole company is like, what are we going to do now? Like, how are we supposed to operate? Yeah. But again, he does remain the company's creative director and he continued to design shoes from prison. His brother kind of steps in and his brother would come visit him and give him updates. Steve would like send him with his shoe designs. He would take it back to the company in New York. Yeah.

He said that everyone else was getting visits from their families and his visitors were his employees.

Like they'd be flying down from New York to Florida. Yeah. Which I think is so interesting. And something that I love that they did was in the campaigns that they started doing, they started putting Easter eggs in the big head campaigns. They put Steve's prison number like on a rock on something and they would hide the words free Steve and all of the campaigns. That's so cool.

That's so creative. I know. I love that. And one of the campaigns was like this Coney Islands thing. And all the rides were named after his prison sailmates. That's crazy. I know. I know. So this is kind of controversial because he is the creative director of Steve Madden and working from prison still. He's making $700,000 a year while incarcerated. Damn. Which it's kind of like,

It's complicated in a way because it's like prison should be a reform thing. Right. But it is kind of crazy that you can be like working from prison and making $700,000 for prison still. Yeah, that is a little complicated, isn't it? Yeah, but I'm kind of like go off, King, like whatever. Why shouldn't he be? Because he still has an operating business. And at the same time, prison, yeah, it should be more about reform than like punishment or whatever.

Especially for these kinds of crimes, like a drug dealer or some stock stuff. It's like, why should we send people there to completely rot? Right. They didn't murder anybody. Yeah, exactly. So honestly, I love that go off. Yeah. Get your money, honey. He was not only just doing Steve Madden business in prison, he starts capitalizing on mackerel. Tess, did you know that mackerel is a huge currency? Mackerel the fish is a huge currency in prison? Yeah.

Fish? No. I had no idea. But apparently it's, they're a huge currency in prison. So it's like mackerel packets, like bumblebee mackerel packets. Yeah. And they're so big in prison because they're,

Delicious, especially compared to prison food. So people really wanted them. So after cigarettes were banned from federal prisons in 2004, inmates needed a durable, consistent and widely accepted alternative and mackerels fit the bill. So it's also just a very interesting study on like the operations and currency in prison.

Yeah.

Some prison inmates would stockpile mackerels and then treat them like bank accounts. They might even loan them out with interest, literally running underground mackerel banks. Wow. And so Steve saw this right away, and we know how Steve is. He's such a businessman, and he was like, I am going to corner the mackerel market in prison. And so he would, and he would pay people mackerel to get his laundry done. He became the mackerel king in prison.

And that's so interesting. And because of this, like some of the fellow inmates saw this and were like, that's amazing. Like, how are you doing that? And Steve was like, I'm going to start teaching a business class to show all of you how you can implement this in your real life. And it was a huge success. And he was like, you guys are here. A lot of you are here for selling drugs. So you know how to do it. And you're really good at it. Find something legal to do and take this into the real world and do it legally. Great.

Yeah. I mean, true. Yeah. So, and like I said, because of this, and he was working with a lot of these guys, so many of them are regional, um, regional managers of Steve Madden's in different parts of the country, which is amazing. And it's also in prison tests that one of his employees, um,

Her name is Wendy, and she starts flying down three times a week from New York to visit him in prison. How much money does she have? Well, I wonder if the company was paying for it. Oh, so they were lovers? They were doing business meetings, and then all of a sudden, they were falling in love. What's it called in prison where you can have sex? Yeah. But you can only do that if you're married. Oh, really? I think. I think.

That's so unfair for the single people. I know, but it's America. Does that shock you? No. It's all just built on weird values. Yeah, truly. That don't make any sense. Literally. But he does end up proposing to her in prison, and they get married when he was released from prison in 2005. Wow.

Are they still together? They are not still together. They kind of were like, she was like, I don't think that we would have ever really got married if he wasn't, we wouldn't have gotten married if he wasn't in prison because she was like, that was the only time in our relationship that I had his undivided attention. Like he is a workaholic. Yeah. It's very different life outside of prison. So kind of trauma bonding.

Yeah, I think it was trauma bonding. I think he was at a different place in his life. He was like, I need you. Exactly. And also, again, he has like nothing but time. You know, he's not out there networking. Nothing but time. Nothing but time. They did end up having three kids together. Oh, they did? Oh. I believe. I think that they're probably like 16 or 17 now. But I think that they still work together and are friends. Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's one of those things like we just shouldn't be married. Co-parent and, you know. Yeah. So he gets released from prison in April 2005. He by 2006, he'd increased his company sales by nearly 100 million dollars and more than doubled its net income. So he made up for it.

The dip while he was in prison. No kidding. Which is just like crazy. It's just like, how do you do this with a company? And he did kind of have a hard time adjusting to what was popular because like a lot had changed in just the three years that he was in prison. Yeah. But he obviously landed right back on his feet. And he continued to be dodged by a reputation as a copycat. In 2009, Alexander McQueen sued, sued, conceding that the company copied his faithful Bodhi.

I don't know what that is. Maybe, oh, I think it's boots. I just had a typo. Oh, no. Fashioned after a motorcycle jacket. I don't know. Anyways, Alexandra McQueen was like, you're copying me. Cut it out. And that same year, Balenciaga said in a lawsuit that Steve Madden reproduced its Lego shoe from the fall 2007 collection. The price of the Balenciaga shoe was $4,175, while the Steve Madden shoe sold for about $100. Wow.

I wonder legally, like, what is it exactly? Because, like, so many things do look, sound like whatever. So it's like, is it, like, something specific that you have to, like, patent? Well, it's actually so interesting that you say that. To bring it back to the pit, as I try to do in every conversation that I have now, it's very much like ER. And so much so that the ER creators apparently sued the pit creators because they were like, you guys are copying our show. But then again, it's like, well, it's a medical drama. Like, that's...

What else are we supposed to do? How do you win that case exactly? Because it could be, well, I don't know. This is a hot take. Tell me. It's kind of loser-y to me when big brands do that. And even artists where like a song sounds the same, I'm like, move on kind of. Literally, if we saw a podcast that was doing something very similar to us, I think I'd have a human reaction of being like, that's annoying.

And then I'd be like, someone has probably said that about us. Yeah. I think the problem is, is like when they start making so much more money, but also with Balenciaga, I'm like, you have a completely different market. Like you have such a specific market that can afford $4,000 shoes. That's not Steve Madden. That's a good point. It's when it's completely different clientele. It's not going to be an overlap. Like Balenciaga people aren't like, let me look at what Steve Madden's doing.

Yeah, exactly. And also, like, if you want to make more money from, like, if you want to make the money that Steve Madden's making from that shoe, then lower the price of your shoe. Yeah, I don't know why it's loser to me. Yeah, but they're like, you're copying me. Yeah, it's like, cool, and you're going to have, like, a lawsuit about it?

don't know then just like either lower your prices or make a different kind of shit i don't know i'm just imagining you being like elwoods and the courtroom right now be like we're doing a lawsuit about this guys this is so loserly it's loserly i like feel the same thing with artists when they sue for song like what's the big one that i was like why are you guys doing this oh my god there's the songs that come to my mind that have been like copy stuff um well i

Ed got sued for copying a Marvin Gaye song or something like that. There was that. There was the Sara Bareilles' Katy Perry. I mean, that was like exactly the same. Justin Bieber's Hold On sounds just like somebody that I used to know. Oh, Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor. Yes. Oh, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, that one's like, and Paramore. Like she did a song that sounded like Paramore too. Did it? Yeah.

Yes, exactly. But then it's like, again, like that's such different times of music. That's different times. And that's her creative inspiration. Like it's not the same song. No one's like, I don't know. I think that what we're saying here is that we advocate for copying.

I don't know. And just don't do it to us. Don't do it to us. We'll be very mad. And yes, we will sue you because I actually hate that shit. But it's so funny that you are like building this hill to die on right now because it's so unlike you. It's so unlike me. I don't know why. I don't know why. I think it's just when these huge brands do it that are so unattainable and pretentious.

And literally like made for the 1% that then sue the guy who's just trying to get women that are able to afford a few heels a year. You know what it is? It's tacky. It's tacky. It's tacky. And if you're on the same level, it is different. Yes, I agree. I completely agree. I think that's what it is.

It's just the levels and it's like, doesn't feel fair. I completely agree to us. I'm with you. Um, but according to representatives for Balenciaga and Alexander McQueen, the lawsuits were settled. They declined, uh, further comments, but you know, which fashion girlies are on his side. Who? Mary Kate and Ashley.

They love Steve Madden. Yes. And they actually have worked with Steve Madden before. But not for the row. It was for Olsen Boy or something like that. Or Elizabeth and James, actually. Elizabeth and James, yeah. Elizabeth and James and it does say Olsen Boys. I don't know what Olsen Boys is. I don't either. But I remember Elizabeth and James used to have a store at the Grove. Oh, yeah.

Of course. Yeah. And they are firmly in his camp. Mary Kate said, Steve knows more about the shoe market than anybody. Love that. Yeah. And you know, they hardly make statements when they do. I know to have the Olsen twins on your side, you're powerful. You are powerful. So I don't think that they care at all about his copycat of the row either. Yeah. They're probably like, whatever. Well, also it's just like, honestly good for a bigger brands, you know, exposure. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. So he's killing it. They start expanding their stores globally and acquiring companies. There are now 13 brands under Steve Madden, including Betsy Johnson, Dolce Vita, and BB Dakota.

are all owned by Steve Madden acquiring huh acquiring interessant love that but Tess you know Steve Madden is affordable but the shoes might have to go up a little bit do you know why

The tariffs. The tariffs. But the tariffs. But the tariffs. So this is like what so many people, one of the things that people are obsessing about Steve Madden right now is what he had to say about the tariffs on the Cutting Room Floor podcast. And I would like to just read an excerpt of what he said about them. Yeah.

He said they, he's talking about the government. They fundamentally do not understand what they're doing. The notion is we've lost jobs to China and we have, but we've picked up other jobs that we would not have had better jobs, many better jobs as a result of our relationship with China, many more than we would have if we, if they were in a factory making socks.

The iPhone being made in China, the success that that has created, there's probably hundreds of thousands of people working for Apple today in America as a result of them making those phones in China that they would not have had. They'd be in a fucking factory and it would be a third of the workforce. So we have new jobs, millions of new jobs in America that are created. It's the upwardly mobile nature of a society that doesn't want to work in a factory making fucking socks.

Hello? No. And at the same time, they're deporting the people that would fucking do it anyways. There are a lot of rich people that made money that didn't build anything, but they made money trading stocks and bonds and buildings. Okay, I'm not hating, but they never made anything. They never created a business. They've never had to ship a shoe out or punch a card. They don't know what it's like, and that's the problem. And we are the people that create commerce, the Apples, the Steve Madden, the Uggs, the Ralph Laurens. We create the economy, and they are destroying it.

Well said, Steve Madden. Is he a Democrat? Well, he's not a fan of Trump. I don't know if he's a Democrat. I'll take it. Yeah, but he hates Trump. I mean, you know, I would – listen, it's hard with billionaires to know where their moral compass lands because greed can really take over. But from this and also his time in prison, I would like to hope. He –

Did you look it up? I did look it up. In 2014, we can also cut this. Sorry. I was just so curious. The DNC reportedly denied Steve Madden's entry to an LGBT gala event that was supposed to include a meeting with President Obama. This was reportedly due to concerns about his prior...

criminal activity. Oh, it seems like the DNC was like, you can't come in because you were in prison once. DNC. That is so losery of you. It's pretty bitchy. I'm like, so bitchy. I hate that. The man served his time. Let him in. Also like, so what?

That's crazy. So I guess he was trying to go to a DNC event. So we love, we love, yeah, I really love Steve Madden's vibes. I mean, I completely agree with everything he said. It's so simple. Like literally what it's the most simple thing. And it's turned into such a fucking cluster. Fuck. That's just crazy. I feel like Trump is like, remind me what tariffs mean again. He keeps getting asked about it. He's like, yeah, let's take it a step back. When did I

going to do? Yeah, it's like, explain it to me like a fifth grader. You know that Elon and Trump are no longer friends. Oh, I saw that. The girls are fighting on Twitter. And he's like, you know what? I don't think the tariffs are a good idea. And everyone's like, oh my God, you guys aren't getting along. I'm exhausted. The girls are fighting, but I love that because he's very much anti-Trump.

Well, thank God. Thank God. So Steve started now where he is today. Steve started the company in 1990 with an initial investment of $1,100. The company is now valued at over $2 billion. Absolutely.

As of 2023, Steve Madden has 225 company-operated brick-and-mortar retail stores, which is so impressive in 2023. His net worth personally is estimated at $300 million. His company, Steve Madden Limited, has a market cap of $1.68 billion as of June 3, 2025.

Damn. I mean, the whole story is very inspiring. Is it? And it makes me want to do more fashion people. Like, we've been asked to do Betsy Johnson. Yeah.

Betsy Johnson would be fascinating. You know, like it's just so – I love like the start out with 1100 and now look at him. Like that's just amazing. I know. Well, also just the fashion industry is so interesting anyways. Like Andre Leontali was truly one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done. So good. I think that like a Karl Lagerfeld, Coco Chanel, like all of those would be so interesting to do. I would love to. We must. We must. We must.

And Steve remains the design chief with no plans to retire. And that is Steve Madden. You were worried about this episode, but I was like, it was so fun and interesting to me. Oh, I'm glad that you liked it. I think part of the problem is just...

So much of why Steve Madden is so interesting and lovable is his own essence that I think that you guys need to now go do your homework and watch videos of him. Yeah, but I felt it. I felt it with the story, and it's just so...

It's so 80s and 90s, you know, of just everything like stocks and drugs and fashion and trends and like his first campaign with the big heads. Like it's such a specific time and it's so fun. And chunky shoes. And going to prison and then getting out and, you know, like it's just...

I thought it was so fun. I mean, Steve Madden was truly traveling. He was going to prison. Like, there was things happening. I mean, he was the original Countess Leanne. He was the original Countess. And I just, I've always been a fan of his shoes. I just think, I don't know. It is just amazing to be able to access fashionable pieces at like a normal price. I completely agree. This makes me want to go look at some shoes right now. I know.

I do need some more heels. Like I really do need like a go, like something I can just like put on with jeans. Most of my heels are pretty like, I have like a lot of heels from like BP or whatever, like that Nordstrom. Oh yeah. And this, I just need, I need a new little, well, I think Steve Madden will do the trick. I also reached out to Steve Madden's PR team to try to get him on Ram and we have not her back. So we could eventually, you never know. You guys never know. So put that out in the world. Um, cause we'd love to chat with him. And also I'd love to get some shoes.

Same. Yeah. So great job, Claire. That was so fun. Thanks. Thank you, Tess. I loved it. You guys, thank you for listening. We will be back next week with our astrology episode that we're so excited about. If you're listening right now, please go comment on our Instagram carousel because it makes our day and then we'll know that you're listening to the end. Yes. You can also like instead of DMing us like the things we ask you, like what's it mean to be indicted?

Put it on the carousel. Yeah, or the Spotify comment, all of the above. We love engagement. We love engagement. We do. And we love you guys. We love you guys. This was so fun. Next week's going to be so different, but also very emotional and very interesting. You can learn a lot more, too, about me and Claire's people and how we work as friends and partners. It was just fascinating. Yeah, it really was. And that's Ram, baby. Sure is.

All right. I love you guys. And I love you, Tess. I love you too, baby. Okay. Bye, guys. Bye.