S-Town - Chapter V
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Chapter five on a sunday evening in two .

thousand and fifteen, with Christmas lesson a week away, I logged in to facebook at home and notice I have an urgent seeming message from tyr's mother, maya F. Y. I.

SHE writes, Tyler will probably be in jail monday. There's a warrant out for him left in the first grand jury. John still haunting us.

I think he's giving up. He tells me of Tyler with a frown. Magi, then he writes, he won last a day in prison, I think. Apollo, john.

hello. Hi mystic. This is brian read, the radio reporter.

I quickly call mi from my cell phone, hence the lower quality recording. But her mother, tyres grandmother miss ion hicks, picks up and says, my is not feeling up to talking. So instead miss hicks explains to me what's happening with Tyler.

They got nine felony judges against tim right now.

nine? seven?

Yes, he and create something because I might not. None, but tail hoo for the next couple amount.

Toller's grandmother miss hicks, says he doesn't know all the details of the charges against her grandson. They're not publicly filed yet. But Taylor's mom, maya, heard from a family friend who works in local law enforcement that a grand jury had indeed Tyler, on a felony count for theft of the forty eight for trailer he took from john's property, along with the buses fill with lumber and antiques tellers, had mister miners before, but never a felling and to exacerbate things.

IT turns out about a month ago around thanksgiving, ving, in an incident that unrelated to john Tyler, was also arrested for armed burglary. He went to pick up his Youngest daughter, who lives with him from her mother's place. And according to tayler, her mom went amin and he was concerned for his daughter's safety.

So he pushed down the door and pull his daughter out, and the mom called the cops who charged him with armed burglar because he got a gun, but he says was in his car, but which the mom said he had on him tellers a court date tomorrow for the burglary charge. And his mother and grandmother are worried that the judge was gonna talk him in jail when he sees the new theft count for the trailer from johns. This all couldn't be happening at the worst time because tayler recently found out he has a fourth baby on the way with his current girlfriend.

Man, what a math.

Tell me about IT as we're talking .

my thick does this thing. I've heard so many people do, not only a bid county, but everywhere talking about what he sees. One injustice that's happening to someone close to her, her grandson suddenly gets thinking about another injustice a little further removed, and then another further remove from mad.

And then another further remove from mad were on the phone for forty five minutes. And SHE ends up giving me this whole lighter. Y, she's complaining about sexual abuse by police officers, about the cop in chicago who shot a black teenager sixteen times. The atrocious candidates for president and her quote, sorry, governor robbert bently .

holy microtest, the whole .

bunch of miss, it's you like john Michael .

more you are. Well, I mean, right now, IT is very precarious.

Right now it's very precarious.

Music says, I tell you all this to this day.

The six is life is fault er carious for a long time now Tylers or deal is only the most recent trouble to edit self. Her days music still cares for her son, Jimmy Tyler's uncle Jimmy, even though he's fifty eight years old because he's severely incapacitated by the bullet lodged in his brain.

He also supports for forty five old daughter maya Taylor's mother, who lives a message to and who, despite being really smart and having a college degree, finds a hard to hold a job because of depression and other health problems. There was also an extended family member living with necks for seven years after he got out of prison for a sex offence. He just moved out and no singer at his room clear. Then he moved a granddaughter. Meanwhile, someone's got a dog behind who's about have a litter puppies, and Tyler and his kids and pregnant girlfriend are living in a half finished house.

Others have been building in mystic's yard. A solution for my, my, my, my condition here would appreciate to that. Any, any idea you have, be a, be welcome.

Take them out and shoot. Do something I don't. If I would had different out a disposing, I probably would go start graving crazy. I just take my medicine and take my butterly. And if you hear me play bully and i'm sab.

a chilly mistakes is an upper lover.

Oh yeah. I would like all Opera. Yeah, that is my favorite book butcheries.

For when you're feeling depressed.

they hear and me place to vocally. I up here, I say, all great is upset about something. Don't bother .

her right now.

Have you been playing IT lately?

All have played IT all the time.

even film, sad i've .

been feeling, said, well, i'm upset about things that I can't alter. I mean, mister lost compass. So why are now we going to fat together? And but you see cars well in our eyes when they hear of a fish story.

I said, oh my e, don't start. you. Cry, but when SHE talks about charity, always, always here, he said, he has, so I have no tears, I have how? I'm just like that mirror, you know that obvious or have been as a look time or modern anything, but just won't to write you know he's doing some done things we I can't make up my mind. 我 这就是 高跟 毛 那个 毛 长 的。

Whether to scold Tyler goods in, or whether to love them, a knni m that is driven its fair share of people, mother, grandmother, girlfriends, buddies. John, a radio reporter from new york, driven all of us at one time or another to sell our example ration with our own personal versions of chili.

Both like a Angel.

From syria in this american life. I'm brian read. This is the town.

还有。

另一个 还没有 什么。 Let's back up a month and a half before my sunday nike phone call, a toller's grandmother before the news of the grand jury, and fill any charges to woodstock town hall. It's four months after john died, four months into this battle between Taylor and john cousins and another of other's core hearings has just ended.

This one for mister minta, passing with which he was charged after going on to john property and taking the trailer and buses. John cousin read and her husband charlier here from florida, a special prosecutor was called in from out of town, and Taylor's lawyer came in from besim r. The only person who wasn't present for Taylor hearing was Tyler because I got a temporary job of factory in georgia and says he didn't want to lose a day's work to come back to woodstock.

So he sent his lawyer in his place reading charlie. John cousins drove ten hours from florida all to watch as a judge, slapped tiger with a new offence, failure to appear, and in the course of two and half a minutes, a journey court. The last time I saw reda was our meeting after I discovered that we were staying at the same hotel and left a note under her door, though you didn't want to talk on tape. But now as we're lingering in the town hall parking lot with the sun setting, we start chatting and he says it's OK. If I record, he seems frustrated with Tyler .

and not say that because of. The whole situation with him taking advantage of ten, an eighty nine year old that can take care of sale.

really says they found just one bank account, john, that he used for his mother's expenses. IT had ninety eight dollars in IT. All the items of Tyler is taken from the maclure property in his eyes to keep from falling IT to an a ferial hands of the cousins. The buzz full of lumber, the trailer, the vehicles reduces as Tyler stealing from john's mother, his legal air.

mary Grace, and he has no money and and. You know you to see her whole life. It's just one meant to be this, what, you know, IT just stripes.

my hard. And there.

people like that in the world know they can take advantage of good people. And I personally think there was something more than this 黎明。 I don't think john would have ever taken his life and left his mother in the shape that he died. Yes, he probably ended up killing himself, but I think he came premature.

Ally, ever. This is how dark this view has become.

I think he drink some night, but I think he was forced to drink sunlight. I think he was probably inaccurate. And someone just cheer him on. And if something he wanted to do eventually anyway, and he just did IT prematurely.

I mean, someone, do you think I was taller?

I do.

I've told the play, I think they are drop the ball on this one. I really do.

I think john and Tyler had an argument. I think he probably got fitter with john.

And right right now.

speculate. Now, how do I speculate?

Charly redis husband is hanging around. Not exactly thrilled that readers talking to me. And he's right.

Reader is absolutely speculating. There's just no evidence at all to back the suspicion up. There's nothing noted in the police incident report for john's suicide.

Joon was texting Tyler minutes before he down the sign IDE and fake gamble was on the phone with john as he did IT and reported nothing about hearing another person in the background egging him on or anything like IT. SHE says all SHE heard were dogs. Reda acknowledges this, that there is no evidence whatsoever. Ver, still .

SHE says, you do.

Yeah.

that's what we do. Others, a fee free to tells me whose trust pass repeatedly under the property of a dead man and his infirm mother ransacked, looking for gold and taken valuable things that weren't is why wouldn't he be capable of offing john .

will never know. But nobody has changed my .

man about IT.

At one point, Charles starts making a cutted gesture across his neck. Charles want to just stopped.

let, but somehow .

they don't go. And before we know IT, we've been talking for more than an hour. Reader tells me all the way she's tried to track john the gold she's called them in the U.

S. Treasury, but she's had no success. Shell pull out a baby book that merry Grace kept for john and shows IT to me. IT has family pictures and class photos and report cards and john's per certificate SHE offers to make me copies of that. I ask, come.

mary Grace's doing OMG. SHE just got back from gallery was there? He went just up to see the leaves change.

And that's a surprise to me, because when I met mary Grace while SHE was living with john, I did not get the impression that he was healthy enough to travel. But now charlie reader have a staying with family, friends, and they say, except for the moment he gets emotional about john, she's doing quite well. He has A T, V to help pass the time, which SHE didn't have.

Living with john, charlie says she's got a sharper and become more aware of current events. SHE used to be a librarian, an, and cared about that kind of stuff her caregivers bring out to either lot. She's gained eighteen pounds in the last three months. He went to the river SHE won't like here on a boat ride. The river here not long ago really .

well in the world.

So she's really .

very good hearing .

about all this IT occurs to me for kind of the first time. The john probably wasn't providing the best life for mary Grace. I don't like to judge the way people live.

And so I hadn't the few days I was there with mary Grace and john reduces before john died. Mergers probably hadn't been on a trip in thirty years. SHE didn't have new cloth.

There were fleas all over the house when they got in there, the windows of merry Grace's bedroom. John had bought IT up. Reda says he told her he had trouble keeping merry Grace in the house. Read is merry Graces. Nurses told her living in a dark room like that can cause a dementia patient to lose track of time.

In merry Grace's case, read a believed he lost ten years because SHE knew when her birthday was, but said SHE was seventy eight turning seventy nine instead of eighty eight turning eighty nine, which is the age he actually was read. Charlie have lived in florida for thirty years, but they both grew up here in woodstock. They still on property here, and they're kept in touch wood, john and mary Grace over the years and visited them on troops call obama.

So reda said he feels and managed to herself that you didn't put together what was going on an intervene sooner. I'm glad to hear mary Grace is doing Better. I tell her by now the sun is set.

Breed in charlie. I are standing in a dark, empty parking lot this whole time. The door, the issue has been open right next to us, and I kept feeling like they could get in and speed away from me at any minute. And now finally, they do. They have a good enjoy your your state.

Two months later, I get an email. Hey, bryan, I know you are a busy, busy man, so when you have time, please call me. Thanks, reader. Sitting in my kitchen table, I call okay. I think .

you've recording now.

Read says it's okay for me to tape on my cell phone. She's at home and florida charlies out of town, which makes for an opportunity to call me because he knows he might not approve. Read, that tells me there's something he wants to ask me about.

So what's okay?

I am trying to get some information, obviously you know more about what's going on with the wisdom police and bia cani blah. You don't have to tell me what you know, but i'm not really sure who I can trust and who I cannot trust.

Reader goes on for a bit and I can figure out what she's trying to ask me. She's talking about the woodstock police officers, therefore, of them full time. And as he suspects the working against her, john was skepti C2Called the cup s too.

He says he called me and he can with stock a shit tail.

I'm what to wear about.

Isn't that what john first gotten touch with me about to investigate? He says corruption in the local police.

Was john telling you not to trust that that thought police cannot be trust? Was there one certain gaa?

I tell her, er, john called me down here to investigate a murder that in the end never actually happened yes, he hated the police in town government but in a completely unbiased and all encompassing way he wasn't writing on one specific person is still confusing to me. Why exactly where is asking about this until he tells me this next part about Tyler, she's discovered something.

He believes he's done something more serious than taking the trailer or buses. And this time he has actual evidence read and knew that after john suicide, one of the things Tyler had taken with johns pick up truck. So one day he called the state motor vehicle office to order a copy of the title, and when he told him the circumstances, the jam by Michael was deceased.

The woman on the phone was surprised job. Michael Moore died in june. That was strange because someone signed his name on the trucks title in july and sold IT.

Oh, okay. Reader said he got the name of the guy who bought the truck and tracked them down not far from the mississippi ve. line. What if the I say, did he, did he get IT directly from Tyler?

He bought the time he got directly from Tyler. Tyler had posted IT on facebook, and he went over to Tyler south and met Tyler and pay thirty three hundred dollars for the truck. And Tyler told him that he had bought the truck from his step dad, john maxwell. Meanwhile.

Tyler told me once that the truck was john, the state revoked the title right to got the guy to a right out. What happened in a statement? And he gave the truck saying he eat the thirty three hundred boxy paid for IT. If a men avoiding trouble with the law, we have also just discovered the teller allegedly pulled off the same shaban with john Mercedes that he sold for nine hundred dollars.

And I do not want anyone to know this because I just don't know what they're fading tiler.

Which brings us to why reader was pluming me for intel on the woodstock police. SHE doesn't want to tell them about her investigation because he believes they're protecting Tyler. SHE says SHE asked the cups to look into these vehicles months ago, but that they came back and told her everything was fine that they belong to to Tyler.

And there have been other issues she's reported since john died were read fields theyve chosen not to investigate or a rest. Tyler take the saga that started one day back during the summer when read on charlie were home and floured up and send their knees, who lives in woodstock to check on the Michael or property reda says her nee arrived and saw that john workshop had been broken into. So SHE called the cops .

was SHE got light sea.

That's officer Jerry lights A A veteran wood stock cop .

in its sixties. And light SHE says, where is mary Grace? The honor should be calling jury .

like he was familiar with the situation. He had to have known that mary Grace would not be handling something like this. Where's reda? He asked in florida. Read needs told them.

and he told her we don't have time to come over there. I'm not gonna follow toward. And then the very next day I went taller, took the buses.

A friend of readers in town called her when that happened to, say, SHE just seen Tyler riding in front of a giant tow truck with one of john's buses. So read charly quickly packed and book the first thing in the morning to bo coy. They went to tyr's grandmother, miss hicks, his house, and drove slowly by snapping photos of the buses and the large trailer Taylor had also taken from johns, which are all sitting in plane view in the yard. Soon after, read says, the person who was watching their house back home in florida picked up the phone there, and someone who identified themselves .

as Tyler said, if you don't quit IT broken by my house and restaurant me, I am going to build your ask of bug shock .

reader wasn't intimated by this threat. Let me say this. SHE told me we Carry a gun when where in wood stock but SHE was pissed, SHE went in person to the woodstock police station to report IT and who should be there but Jerry .

lights you and when I walk again, Jerry just hit me with with all barrels saying, and you have got to quit run by Tyler tails you have got to quit arrest in him or i'm gonna have, uh, always you and i'm like you got to be killing me you mean to tell me I can't drive down a public road but he can go over mere grasses and still all of her staff ranch I didn't really say staff because I was made IT and then you know he's like, lady, you got a back off and I wow. I think he's some time outside.

I don't know as when I just I do, I don't just trust life is not telling that to his face. I'm not talked behind this bag.

I tried asking.

officer lights see about all this to his face. After a few phone calls, I approached one morning in the woodstock toward all parking light, but he declined to speak to me. The woodstock police chief land Price didn't respond directly to retest claims that the departments been side, but he told me that henhouse officers made clear to Taylor that he could not take anything from the house until matters were settled in proper court.

He also told me that the cops found no money or gold and john's house and made a point imagining that the town had to pay for the clean up of the suicide scene. All that said, I do have some insight into what's going on with Tyler and Jerry lights. See.

hello, he comes over here pretty often.

Jerry, a family friend tiger says he's especially close with his sister and her husband and Tyler's mom, who's told me yourself that Jerry, a pal not long after read adventure worries to me about lightly covering for Tyler teller, tells me that lick swung by his grandmothers. Recently, Taylor has been constructing his house there out of the old number that was in the buses he took.

I've been observing others progress on the house myself every time I visit. And IT is truly remarkable as the heart of the house. He's used the White trailer from john's place, outfitting up with a kitchen, and then assembled this giant, fascinating two stories structure all around IT, kind of like a non three house version of the swiss family Robinson making use of the bus number, but also all sorts of other materials.

He scavenged bits of drift wood with stereo lines, telephone polls. He was able to buy off a guy and old decking took apart pieces of fence, a horses watering trop is turning into a shower. There's a huge workshop with a pool table and bedrooms for all girls, and a second floor porch that looks out over upon in the forest. I come from a family of home builders, and i've never seen anything like that. Anyway, officer like to came by not long ago, and telega mature.

He walked in the house and even walked around and looked at the back of the addition of time.

See, you gave a tour of the house that you're building with the stuff that's disputed that his his office technically arrested you forth and is going through the courts.

I tell us years coming next if i'm everything was IT and if I stay at a prison and he said, yes, very hope they don't won't understand flying back talking about the trailer after this time I go in a worker, he said, oh, this might just say one is that I said, no he said, oh, okay and then we just Carried on the another other section toller says IT .

was like Jerry was winking at them being his buddy tolerance mom told me Jerry stressed over toller's legal issues given the, his, their friend and that he's, quote, eagerly waiting for his retirement date next year tell her, says Jerry told him he's tired of having to choose between his friends and his job. There's more right after this.

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Can I tell you what Tylers view you guys is? What do you mind if I told you that? And I just get what you say on the phone with rea?

I realized there's this whole version of her that i've gotten from Tyler that cast her and charlie is hartless money, gabbing carpet beggars, sweeping inconvenience after john death to rest control of the property and assets from Tyler without a thought for mary Grace. But then there's the other version of redone charlie that i'm getting from them of high school sweet hearts who have been married forty one years, who seemed have a nice, nice relationship, who make each other laugh and don't appear to get on each other of nerves.

Even after a ten hour drive from florida woodstock, almost every time i've seen read in charlie a probated court at our best western hotel meeting, a john funeral, charlie e has been wearing some kind of a wine and shirt, as if he's trying to will these unpleasant settings into the fun filled retirement he imagined. They will stop working about seven years ago, and they they tell me they ve been trying to enjoy IT, except for the fact that for months now they have been having to drive back and forth between charley's father, who recently a surgery and moved in with them in florida, and this whole mess, bib county, john suicide, merry Grace, needing care and no money to be found, and this never ending flight with Tyler. On top of that, all another for Tyler, whenever I brought up the possibility that this could all be a misunderstanding, that snowball, that belsize could have meant t well, and maybe if they just hashed out, bygones could become bygones.

What he always returns to, what he can't seem to get over, was a very first interaction he had with redone charlie in john's driveway. Over the months. He has repeated that story to me.

How read? And charlie passed the hospital where mary Grace admit, admitted after john suicide to go straight to her and johns house trying to get in patiala called berry Grace and is going to meet them there with the keys and SHE instructed and not to let them in the house. The whole thing robed in the wrong way.

He even like the fact that you went to the house before the hospital.

yeah. And he said that to me that day. He said, I can't believe what person of all is like, well, mom a is mom like, who didn't hate mom?

I didn't remember is what tazer called john's mother, mary Grace really is. The only reason they went to the house first was to pick up some essentials for mary Grace, clean clothes and her purse. And SHE says, actually, they didn't pass the hospital, get there because they came through a gummer y not birmingham.

Tyler assumed when they arrived in woodstock, the police chief escorted to joan's house, but they found that the door had been padlocked. The chief told him to the goods and had probably put IT there. And that was the first time read a heard his name. Teller told me some stories about written sharley, especially about that first day when they met in john driveway. He told me IT escalated into an all out fight really quickly, which I was unsure how fully to believe I was hard to picture these harmless seeming retirees getting in a row like that, especially in front of the police chief teller says, reading charly, we're screaming at him in the driveway, telling him off. Reader says.

absolutely.

according to Taylor. Charlie cust, adam, according to reader.

charlie says, I really give up what you think as SHE goes .

through her side of the story. It's like nearly every little thing that Tyler had happened read a confirms only the opposite, if that makes sense, like she's the lost role of negatives to toilers developed photographs and people.

When we get to the hospital, we got the hospital. He is basically turn mere grades against me.

What happened after the driveway? Coral, if you were call, is that Tyler refused to unlock the house for read, and charlie and they all went to the hospital to see mary Grace.

You know, we get to the hospital and he went about his clothes. You get to my Grace without being on a light and I walk in the doors and I said, mirror ACE, I am just so sorry and he said, you never had kids. You never lost Sunny kids. You don't know how I feel I said, mary Grace, you know who he says, yeah, I know who you are, reader.

So I went out, so a nurse station, after what was going on, I said, he said sad because, hey, total, you were taking another flaw.

which wasn't the case. They barely even knew what was going on. Readers says there were no plans yet.

And the nurses were saying, who is this guy? Why connection is he to her? Is he her adopted term? He told him he was her adopted sn. And so I go back in there and you know that migration and am here or to see IT. Is there anything that I can do, you know, happy or whatever in china faces light? Well, i'm going to get, you know, i'm going get mama home and tell me a mom a set up the porch and we talk about all times and mom, give you some new shoes and and mom, m, mike, you're going to pick you fresh flowers every day and I walked out and I said, charlie, I said, charlie, if I hear him called her mom one more time, i'm gonna go.

Before you move back and I tell you the way you're describing Tyler at the hospital as putting on a show for you guys, that's how he describes you in the hospital and putting out show saying that you guys were crying over very grave and we're like all bohoo were so no.

no, I we need an idea, say mirror Grace. I am so sorry i'm not saying a one crown probably did crop I mean, my god, I knew john Brown said, what like you was a stranger, his family but I want to, oh me. K, I am sorry. Now at that point.

reda says he really wasn't sure what to make of the situation. Mary Grace was saying that he wanted to go back to her house and her dogs and have tired, take care of her. Read hadn't seen merry Grace for a while and says he didn't yet realize the extent of her dementia after while read, turn to Tyler.

I'd just told you about that. Look, if merger wants to you to movie and to take your hurry, you want to do that. So power there i'm going home. I will stay after the fund and then i'm going home to florida. Will need there get like to you where we're you actually .

willing to let mary Grace go with Tyler like with that, when you are, you are you were just calling the left for like.

no, I was serious. He said he was okay. He liked tim. He liked her. I'm buying and then the social worker call me at Normal talent, said, why not turn to mary Grace over to hear?

Part of the reason was that Tyler isn't kindest y. Grace but read says in addition to that, the hospital staff had doubts about what Tyler was claiming.

He, he said, over their care, mere Grace, for years, I check to the doctor. I do this and I do that. Well, what's the door's name? Uh, uh, uh, uh, I don't know.

He's a health care. Well, uh, uh, uh, I don't know. What does SHE take the medications? No SHE don't take anything, battery or they need. That was a lie because I had a medical record, so he just stuck his safety. Ch, one thing .

reader hasn't common with a cousin. John SHE, too, is a factitious record keeper. She'll eventually give me a copy of a daily journal she's been keeping of what's occurred since john's death in impressive detail. SHE list each little interaction with authorities in there, lunches, visits to the pharmacy. When we're done talking tonight, we entered this are very phone call into the journal quote, talk to brian reed reporter for over three hours. I'm also in the one day teen at probe core described as being with a amErica radio and that I showed up and quote, seem to know a lot of information, which I find flattering on this day, according to readers journal, after the social worker declined to release mary Grace to Tyler, ready to go.

ta call from a friend saying that tala was a worth the house with two trailers and two trucks .

at john's house. They're a load up stuff, allegedly.

So I got my car, went down there in the place is already running off and the places, the one that told me, you know, you might want to go ahead and try to get custody of merry Grace in her journal.

SHE wrote quote, that is when I realized that tether was a gold digger and I decided to fight him. For mary, Grace is sag, and the days become immediately busy.

The journal documents and urgent and successful effort involving fg gamble, the town clerk, and boozer downs, the town and john attorney, to get rid a temporary guardianship over mary Grace, a documents, a trip to lows to purchase locks to secure mary Grace's house, a trip to the post office where read, as said, he learned the tillers girlfriend, he picked up a package addressed to john P. O. Box, a trip to the police station to report that and choose totherhouse irl's end out of a lineup which never let any charges. A trip to the nail slam from mary Grace to get a Petered re leftovers for lunch on tuesday. The trip to boozer down's office where they met with Tyler and kind of sort of try to talk things out but that went south when mary Grace said to him.

my mom, i'm not your mom, which read a.

says mary Grace utt of her own volition Chelsea says SHE didn't break up Tyler and mary Graces conversation of the funeral like Taylor told me that she's not brain washing mary Grace against him. There's a trip documented in the journal to walmart to get john burial cloth. A trip to the funeral home, into the florist, to the cemetery to point out where to dig johns grave.

And that funny story, you have not funny, but the undertake her came out and tony, he said, now, you know, john got some real big gold nip rings and I said, really didn't know that .

when I said rea colaba ated nearly everything Taylor told me, well, here you go read to hold .

the undertaker. I want those nippers. I just wore them. Sure the undertaker said.

no problem but then as read and try, we're leaving the cemetery. They realized he hadn't .

given them to them so I went to see undertaker or where he said, ah, we couldn't we couldn't get him off something about how they were screwed on and all the staff and you know, I really wish I had pursued that now that I think back, I really don't think the nepal rings were on him. I think to undertake her gott, because you're telling me that you got a there, the job done, an autopsy on, and you cut him from neck to provide and you can give a neigh's ring off, cut his name of he stay at 嗯。

Oh, why? That's why would you want those?

Well, you know what? The main thing I got to thinking about is I didn't know if you wish just something that I would help of this that maybe I could pass on a mere Grace or something, or just something to keep up here.

as you know, what to .

mean Grace now. But I mean, IT was just something of tears. I guess that .

I didn't have .

anything of.

he is really is. Part of the reason is that she's had a lot of deaths in her family and doesn't trust funeral homes. But still well.

i'm so of reeling from you saying that you cut a nip off.

just saying that you don't tell me that you couldn't get .

those liberating move.

Rida is now going after Tyler on multiple fronts. She's press the charges for trust passing. She's pressing charges for theft of the trailer and buses, both of which the woodstock police chip pointed out to me. They did a rest.

Tyler on SHE was soon bring the district to turn is office the evidence? She's gathered the Tyler fake john signature on the titles for john's cars, and a grand jury will also invite them on multiple counts of forgery. The assistant district attorney told me he's impressed by how industrialist read has been investigating these matters completely on her own. Read that tells me he thinks toller should do time for what he's done to me.

Anyone that goes over and takes other people's to sessions is a criminal.

Charlie told me he's not necessarily mad. Tyler. Tyler is is doing what he knows he's a criminal. That's what Taylors been reduced to in their eyes. But this is what conflict like this due to the participants reduce them .

half a year into the fight.

read said. He feels minimize by IT too, like the fight has turned her into someone meaner and cruder than SHE is.

I'm serious. I mean, as a Christian, I even have trouble with this because, you know, you special learn everybody and I don't want him to think that this is a kind of personal ill. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a, i'm not that cup of person.

You think as as some kind of joke tic, or they forget down some kind of criminal with all this, all this mess me, but I don't know, I don't consider myself for criminal. I mean, I don't do not, but work and take care. Good.

the food is wearing on Tyler, too, that sunday night, when I spoke to his grandmother on the phone, the night SHE and tiller's mother were freaking out that the judge, my thrown in jail the next day. Well, that didn't happen. Color paid a thousand dollar bond and remained free right now.

His forgery and theft case is scheduled to go to trial in early summer. He says he sees nothing wrong with the measures he's taken. Yes, he took the trailer in buses.

But would a criminal have builds sales for those things which Tyler has even though read and charlie claim they must be fake based on the dates? And would a criminal have asked the woodstock police, after telling them about the build of sale, if he was allowed to go on john's property and repossess the trailer and buses? Because, according to Taylor, that's what he did and the police said I was okay. And would a criminal say this when he got wind that he was being investigated for possibly forging johns name on a document?

I don't say him 还有。 They can prevent, you know.

is there something to prove?

I don't know I don't know what you're trying to, but when Taylor .

and I talk about this, he doesn't yet know what the forgery allegations are about exactly. The county hasn't yet filed the charges against Taylor, claiming his forge john signature on the titles for john truck inversions to file those soon. But at the moment, when we're talking, he simply heard word that someone has been going around asking questions about him, about a forgery.

Anything things that maybe has to do with the bills of sale for the buses. Either way, I asked him broadly, but is there a forgery that happened? Tyler.

I don't know.

开。

Not on my part, he says for a year.

Tyler and I have talked regularly on the phone, and when I come out, obama, he's only all sorts of stories, some about john, but even more just about his life, about the abuse his father, rodney, inflicted upon him and his family when he was a kid. abuse. Toller's mother and grandmother have told me about two.

Rodney, by the way, said to me that he was not abusive. He used a different word. He said he woke his family. Piller told me about what I was like just as he was entering high school, to have rodney get convicted for sexually abusing a child, to have to suddenly cramb with his family and do his grandmother's house. And if everybody at school know what was going on about what it's like to have your license suspended for fAiling to pay a fine one time for a minor traffic offence, and that to keep getting pulled over again and again because you have no other way to get to work in rural alabama, so you're driving without the license and the fines keep mounting with john called fine slavery. And so much of the money you do manage may have to shovel right back over the courts or lawyers about what all that does to your world view.

I know I got some bad look 的， but I just expect the worst to happen everywhere ago. And just hope. And I get surprised that, no.

getting rodney as a dad, dad is a bad hand. A cashier refusing to sill a beer walmart, because he happened not to have a valid I D with you.

Not so much, but toller complaints about that kind of thing all the same, bouncing between as many grievances, between big injustices he's experienced and petty once he and I have had long, sometimes frustrating talks about this where i've tried to understand his justification for some of the choices he makes, like earlier on, when the legal battle was just starting to get more serious with read on, charlie and I suggested he might have an opportunity to prevent IT from masculine. Have you considered giving the buses back just to avoid the trouble? He told me IT tickled him.

That was his word, tickled to see read and charlie y struggle. And then there's this story, which give me a vivid sense of how Tyler sees things. He recently hired a guide de to do some electrical work on the houses building. And according to Taylor, the guy stole two of his grandfather's old guns, that of Tylers home. So tiger came up with the whole plan. He contacted the guy and acted like he had noticed, told him there was more work to be done, and trick the guy into coming back over to his house, where he was waiting from with a rifle in hand, and walked him over to his shed.

I had a chair sit up, their next shared in some down snips, hit clipper snips, prop up aside, waiting. And I was gonna T A fer too well, and and I was gonna snap angers until he and my government delivered .

back here. Tyler, really? Yes, really at first I thought maybe total was just saying something ridiculous, embellishing, but ask him about IT and he's clear with me. He was serious about this and going into that shed had every intention of following through. He says he did have a change of heart once he got the guy into the shed and ended up instead whip ing the guy across the face with the gun and beating him silly rather than dismembering him.

But he hasn't had .

a change of heart about the appropriate use of this plan as we discuss IT in retrospect CT, he still thinks that would be a completely acceptable thing to do, given the situation which I find out settling. You thought I would be .

OK to cut his fingers off if was OK. That is going, that is then, yeah, I am gona fix a thea. I believe I would took one finer and in guns would have been found if one finger had a wet IT wouldn't took to a theory og hand to you.

I kept questioning Tyler, trying to understand why he thought this was okay. But nothing he said did quite make me understand, and I realized I was probably going to stay that way eventually, as i'm saying goodbye about to hang up the phone, tell, arrest me this or an animal. You go. Can you just .

do one? They say, may be in a bad person.

do I?

Yeah.

no, man, I see he was a complicated, Normal person. You, I, I, I disagree with some of your decisions, but you also, you've had, you've had a very different life experience that i've had. Yeah, why do you feel like a bad person? sometimes?

No other is is this. I just wanna know what people think of may, because a minute how I do anything for anybody and help somebody get them. We are good.

And I know, rob, nobody, still nobody. I know if my may, they treat me like rodney is what IT is. It's always been my whole lot.

Thanks to .

Tyler. Rodney is dead. That's a criminal. And that's how Tyler measures that. He's being a good person. Is he acting like rodney?

aman? Yeah, I have a temper, but I don't bid on my kids or my wife or my mom or my sister. He does.

I have .

my mistake should ensure. Then I wish I had a little bit Better guidance.

John had a rase for the M. O. Tyler would often employ, went faced with an a front quote, the what now solution. John cared for Tyler, but he was also perpetual frustrated by him and was fixated on the possibility that have tired and get his life in order. Soon he could end up becoming an erdem will fuck up when either did something jumped in, approve of like party too much of the tattoo parlor are going to a nasty, screaming match with one of his exes, or get locked up in jail and ask john to bail them out. I would annoy john.

I've never seen in a my entry to one ppa and I would .

here about IT if that's .

what you can't do. You can't keep this bucket. I ask a trouble. And I expecting to bush, you know, he was raised about fucked in child Alice, or may be I expected too much.

And just like what Taylor's grandmother talking about, Tyler's tribulations could quickly get john riled up about tribulations, the world over, which I know we've all heard john delivered this kind of her ring before. But I share this, only see, you can see how riled up tither can make. John, you really inspired some of john's most versus ic work here. I'll save you all the wind of a about Tyler and go straight to the money.

We nothing but a nation god dam chicken shit, hot shit title tail pcs at the out of shape facebook look damn to the peaking out the wind doors and slip and around listening on the cell phones and spine in the pay hole that pave in the crack or the god doward listed in the fucking and sheet rock yeah mr. Potton play shows some fucking in mercy and I come on, drop a fucking bomb, want you?

I got to help me somebody.

Still, john rarely stuck with Tyler despite the irritations game. More, more work helped them out with more, more money, keep track of his court appointments on the calendar, hired him a lawyer, accompany ed him to court, given lectures and advice. So IT could sometimes fold a john like a one way street on the phone. One time I asked john a lame question about him and Tyler, but the way he responded stayed with me. Do you think your guy's relationship is more of a friendship or more of a eternal relationship?

What you wanted to, but you didn't come out and say IT is, is, is your guy's relationship more of a friendship or more of a user ship? What you always say? No, IT actually .

wasn't what I wanted to say. It's what you wanted to say, apparently. What do you say that you .

do say that what your peer south two in the day of morning, and you know, he's out a day joke. See, this isn't the first time I pull this stone. I could keep you on this phone for hours with another case for the name of maco floor.

John brings up this name, Michael fuller, in the last conversation he and I ever have a little more than a week before he killed himself. He doesn't reveal a ton about him, just that Michael was a twenty something guy. John had also kind of taken under his wing years ago when he was much Younger himself. Unlike Taylor Johnson is Michael came from a family professionals, a good, good family, but was rebellious, didn't hang with the best of influences.

You know, hey, was going to be out with that wild crowd party and hanging out at seeing your frogs and the quiet and all these damp disco s and doing all this damn dope. They just made a career and go in a jail. He would.

They be about forty five nail in the last time I heard from him, he was living up there. In your next words, play in some in eighteen hundred dollars, a much to live in some scrappy apartment. IT didn't even have a day on bathroom and he was seat up with some damp, the argentine girl that was bringing up hop power pot. So yeah, I think the shit, the four.

john felt like he failed with Michael, and he worried he was about to failed with tailer too.

not in a very good track record from his.

After john died, I found Michael fuller in new york city. Call them to set up a time to visit. And when I walked into is this bleak scene.

So yeah, I want to take your stuff, but nobody has based on their own. Michael foller does live in an apartment in new york, and he may be paying eighteen hundred dollars a month and rent. I don't know.

I believe that would be under market for his lovely apartment in upper manhattan, which not only has a bathroom, but three bedrooms. Michael, a waiter, he likes his job and he is checked up with a woman, though she's brazilian, not argentinian, is, Johnson said. And SHE does not happen to be a smuggling of high power south american marijuana, but rather a sweet monotone teacher who was also Michael wife.

They have a smart in precocious seven year old who speaks portuguese in english and cheers for alabama football from a far. Michael tells me he got to know john as early twenties. Well, he was living down the road from him .

and wood stock that was over there. A light can just A A safe place to be.

You thought, you thought of James is a safe place to be here. Michael uses a version of that word several times to describe johns, a safe place, a safety harbor, a place of safety ness. He was parting a lot, danny, he says, over in birmingham, dancing as a scantily clad cowboy in a traveling malreich, doing a lot of drugs, drinking and johns with somewhere he could go to sob rup or escape the scene for a while.

And he always felt welcome there because john would be eager for the company and would usually be up in the middle the night after Michael was done. Clubin working on clock, Michael says, once even hit out at johns for days from the police when he had a war, and out for skipping a court appearance meeting Michael. I realize john couldn't have been more wrong when he said his project had failed.

Michael says, without john n as a refuge, a voice telling him to slow IT down, to drink less, he might have end up dead some night from drunk driving or in jail more than he did already. And IT was john's place that Michael went to when he was about to hit the bottom of his addiction. From there he headed back to his family and on to rehab. So you really think john had .

damaged influences that drinking get bad, and he was a good person to be there for me at that time. He helped to lie.

It's interesting, like one of the reasons I I wanted to come talk to you, do you feel know what the good sense is that naming ing a bala no.

the good sinner.

I explained the Michael the context in which Johnson told me about him, how john mentioned him because we've been talking about this other guy, Tyler goods in who join IT also recently been trying to shepard through a rough period. And while i'm telling Michael about this, about the things john was doing .

for Tyler here rubs and that yeah caring and help me and that's john .

you're smiling like .

with recognition. I asked Michael of that sounds for what i've described like Tyler is a later iteration of him and he says, it's weird. But yeah, that does seem about right. John would let him state his house as long as he wanted, Michael says. Then he says, and that's how he was a Tyler, I guess I thought seems to be occurring to him about john .

suicide and substance. I happen with Taylor. I don't know, maybe.

I don't know. I think john was gay, which has nothing to do. Don't bother me at all.

But what do you think you think something happened with Tyler?

Like he could have stopped in a row, he could have found a girl free? You know, something like that, is that what happened?

Yeah like right .

before the end. Not long before john killed himself, Tyler had started getting serious with his current girlfriend, can I? And they had recently moved in together. And when Michael said Tyler could have stopped coming around, all I could think of is the weekend leading up to john committing suicide, the weekend of father's day when Tyler had been avoiding john and not speaking to him because john had made an insulting comment about his daughter on the swing set, Michael says this is something he'd always sense about john all those years ago.

He can't wanted to buy a safe.

He didn't want to share you, especially not with a woman.

I'm just saying when you took a girl over there, you could tell he would let them go if you stay. How could .

you tell?

You can just see IT. You can tell IT was always with girls. IT was the nasty. He was never really talking about nice about women.

This is true. John k. Could be scaffold lots of people. So when he was alive, this didn't necessarily jump out of me.

But in retrospect, I have noticed that john could be particularly mean about women. He often use the word horr as well, some more vulgar and inventive language to talk about women. And IT sometimes seemed like he reserved a bit of extra Victory, real just for them.

On the other hand, john also expressed interest in feminism. But moon, the fact that women in this area were more educated than men, but didn't seem to get the same opportunities, talk about reading Betty freed and glorious steinem and was a fan of Audrey lord. And he was enraged by sexual abuse.

So as usual with john IT was complicated. But since he died, quite a few people have told me, like Michael, that he was a woman hater. Michael has now formulated a theory in front of me, a speculation, to be sure, but one that he is compelled by none's that Tyler retreating from john that weekend. And then the ninety killed himself, Taylor r, choosing to stay home with his girlfriend and kids rather than hitting john please, and going back to his place. Michael thinks that's what LED to john suicide.

I'm just thinking. That's what they push him over the edge. He's afraid he's fixed .

and lose tiger.

I ask Michael something i've ordered often about john. If you ever known to be in a relationship, I have no idea. Michael says, I don't think so.

I know not with a woman, and I have no idea about a man, but he never mentioned that to me. Do you think john, relationship with you? And then now Tyler, having heard about IT, like, was the closest thing he had to romantic relationship.

I would think so. Yeah, yeah, I would think so.

So sad or not sad.

they said. Because we're both straight.

IT is sad, but as i'd learn Michael and Tyler being the closest thing john had to a romantic relationship, that's also not true.

The summer is here. This guy is on your cast and no one brings. everybody. SHE watches her flowers, girl of, and go to give each other roses from a three.

S town is produced by Julie snyder and me with editing from iraq lass saracenic and wheel drumming. We need danger fields as our digital editor. Starting kind is a story factoring and research by ben.

FAiling settling is our director Operations. Liar Smith mixes the show, and matt hearing is our technical director. The s town staff includes Emily condon, alease bergeron, Julie whittier er and kimberli y henderson.

Music for the show is composed by Daniel heart trade powder, a lot of negro and maggi I music supervision by damian grave. Our website is s town podcast ord. That's s town podcast start. Special thanks to Elizabeth iron Russell john and Carry Lewis and Scott sinker. Er s down is a production of cereal and this american life.

Is loving this way. Her roses are fading now he keeps surprise somehow, and SHE has protecting her from pain. And as three years go by, SHE will grow on and die.

那 愿力 佛 过。