Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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Download the GameTime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. What's going on, everybody? I'm Marah. And I'm Tez. And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Sometimes I get into these places in my mind where I'm like, can't nobody tell me nothing. I do what I want. I get away with what I get away with. And if you with me, you with me. And if you not, you on my way. Our players this week, the Roy Knowles.
Our victim and Ashley's granddad. Millie Knowles, our victim and Ashley's auntie. Mary Elizabeth Knowles, our victim and Ashley's grandma. Mary Elizabeth Jones, our victim and Ashley's sister. Jeremy Hart, our accomplice and Ashley's boyfriend. And Ashley Jones, our murderess.
Ashley Jones was born in Birmingham, Alabama in 1985 to her father, Eugene Jones, and her mom, Karmia G. Knowles. But her mom and her dad got married, so at this time she's Karmia Jones. When Ashley was brought into this world, she was brought into...
A world where her mom and her dad were just constantly, hmm, what's the word? Dysfunctional. Neither her mom nor her dad had really solid jobs and they struggled financially. Now, where they grew up in Birmingham, it wasn't the best place to grow up. There's a lot of crime that happens in Birmingham. And when you're in the hood in Birmingham, like it's a constant. It's what you see all the time.
Now, her father, who was a barber, who stood six feet tall, 220 pounds, he was described as being very temperamental. Everybody in the house pissed him off all the time. Now, when Ashley was three years old, Ashley's mom tried to get Ashley, a three-year-old, to go and stab her daddy. And the reason she did this is she said if the police see that he's stabbed...
they gonna think the three-year-old did it on accident they're not gonna charge a three-year-old but at least that nigga will be stabbed which is crazy why are you trying to get your baby to stab your nigga keep that between y'all ashley didn't do it she's three daddy i love you
I'm not going to stab you. Ha ha ha. Why would mommy do that? So she didn't actually do it. But when she's four, she finds out that she is going to be a big sister. And her parents have another daughter. And their new daughter's name is Mary Elizabeth Jones.
Jones, named after their grandmother, Mary Elizabeth Knowles. If you thought that them having a new baby would make all their problems go away, it did not. If anything, it escalated it. And now Ashley and her sister are watching their parents go through consistent turmoil. On Valentine's Day of 1991...
Karmia claimed that Eugene was on another rampage. This time he gave Karmia a black eye and, quote, beat one of the children about the side of her head with the back of his hand with a remote control. Eugene told the cult that she was a liar.
A habitual drug user and was associated with unsavory persons and had been accident-prone. It ain't my fault. That statement sounds so prepared. And she be what? Unsavory people, your honor. Habitual drug user. So when Ashley was six years old, her mom and her dad finally get an actual divorce, thank the Lord. But even the divorce was messy. But what do we expect?
This message wasn't the type of message that stayed in the house. It was all coming to the courthouse. And the judge was like, you know what? I'll do what y'all gonna do. I'm gonna award custody of the girls to mom, which of course is what they usually do. That we're gonna have you pay $365 a month, a dollar a day. You too can support a child in Africa.
It's two babies, so technically 50 cents a day per child. Can you do that, sir? Sir. Now, after the divorce, things seemed to calm down, but Ashley's mom was still, she was still tweaking a little bit. In 1995, she got into a fight with her sister, Ashley's aunt, Aunt Millie. Aunt Millie filed a harassment charge against her sister.
And the official statement said that Carmilla, quote, caused bruising on my leg and soreness in my knee. She was not okay with that. She said she's telling. She don't get with that shit. And if you think that's how you're about to treat me, you've got another thing coming.
And in 1995, Eugene went back to the court to tell the court that his baby Nama was not allowing him to have his visits with his daughter. So he was like, if she ain't gonna let me see them, then I want full custody. Because they're my kids too. Which, at least you trying to see your kids. At least there's that, right?
Or are you trying to use them as leverage? Or do you think it's going to be easier to raise them kids than pay that child support? And that's never the case. Never the case. After a month, he files for his full custody and Carmina presses charges against her ex-husband. In this charge, she tells the court how Ashley is being abused by her father. According to statements, Eugene threw Ashley into a wall, breaking her arm, and...
When the court retained Kamiya's custody, she dropped the abuse charges against her husband. So we don't know if these came about because this is what I needed to say in court or if these are actually happening. We're probably going to lean towards it actually happened, but still. Yeah, I lean towards it actually happened and she used that as leverage. As soon as she got full custody of the kid, she was like, all right, whatever.
I forgive you. It doesn't matter if you traumatize our kid. I think even Mariah, like she was just like trying to do whatever she had to do to keep her kids and say what she had to say or not cause any drama. Or maybe she was just like, you know, I'll let this go if you let me keep my kids because I really don't want to hurt you any further. And I really don't want to drag this mess out. But you're not taking my kids. But whatever it is, she did what she had to do. If you thought
And all this time that Ashley's mama was going to be without a man, you were wrong. She was dating. And matter of fact, dating changed the marriage. And she married this man named Javed Attar. And Javed was 35 years old, stood 5 foot 9 inches, 172 pounds. And just a few months after those charges dropped, which we have ourselves like 1997,
Day back to the court, speaking on more abuse. But this time, it's not from Eugene. This time, it's Javad.
sexually abuse Ashley. It's an unfortunate cycle that you see that like one women go from abuser to abuser, but especially when mothers do it because their children continue to suffer at the hands of different men. Like if it's not bad enough that she suffered at the hand of her father for you to introduce new men into her life to also take advantage of them and mistreat them. Oh, it makes for a rough upbringing. I know that much.
Yeah, it definitely does. Carmilla was not the person who filed charges against Jevin. Maybe it was Pops. Maybe it was Aunt Millie or the grandparents. Maybe even a school counselor, but it wasn't a mama.
Right, which also means that mom can't be the one to drop the charges like she did when she was filing charges against dad. You know what I'm saying? Now, once these charges were pressed, Eugene was like, all right, court, here is proof. I want my kids. Can't be in that household. My daughter's being touched on by this nigga. I need full custody. And the court was like, sure, yeah, absolutely. You can have full custody. Nobody really knows what happened there.
when Ashley and Mary Elizabeth were living with their daddy full-time. But we do know that there is history of abuse. We do know that dad liked to drink and did coke and that he always had unsavory persons around as well. Anything that did come out, you know, all this time, she was a minor. We don't have everything, but most people agree that sex
some form of abuse was happening while she was living with her father. Now also after this a lot of people rumor again don't know these are records from when she was a minor but witnesses have said that after she was living with her dad she then was sent off to be institutionalized because she's hitting ninth grade and she
She's not adjusting well. She's talking to herself. She's laughing to herself while she's at school. She's then trying to figure out where this pain is coming from and stop the pain from happening. And she stops the pain by starting new pain. So she starts cutting herself. She then realizes that drugs are very easily available to her, especially prescription pills.
that aren't prescribed to her. And here she is, 12, 13 years old, popping big pills consistently. Now, also, there was a rumor that in 1998, she stabbed her mom and her dad. And at the time, her mom was eight months pregnant with her mama's new husband's baby. Ashley's, I guess, sibling. I don't know if it was a boy or a girl.
But she tried to stab them. Now, some say that she tried to stab them and she did not stab her parents. Some say that she just stabbed her mom. Some rumors say that she just stabbed her dad. But either way, somebody almost got cut at the hands of Ashley. No charges were pressed against Ashley by her parents, but it's just a thing that people know. It's just a little fun fact.
It's just it's just what's going around the room or meal, which is like, OK, so we all know this girl is stabbing people and nobody's doing anything. She's jumping from school to school at this point. She's been I mean, her school record is just in and out, withdrawn from school. Sometimes she goes to school, sometimes she doesn't. So she's not there to long enough to form any type of relationship with a counselor.
Or really for a counselor to get their hands on her for real, you know? But finally, a school psychiatrist did get a hold of her. And she was diagnosed with being severely depressed. After being properly diagnosed, it actually seemed like things were starting to look up. There was a little bit of intervention. She was taken away from her dad's house. There were a lot of open cases in the family court for her, including the abuse from her stepdad.
And they said that her and her sister were going to live with her grandparents. You know, Marina, it's crazy the difference that a diagnosis would make, that a diagnosis makes, you know, like it's just it allows room for you to treat people accordingly. You know what I mean?
Yeah, it really does. And, you know, I was I went to a talk, some representatives or maybe some of the assistant district attorneys in DeKalb County. They were talking about how hard it is. And the number one thing that helps you, especially if you are going through the court system, is to have a diagnosis because. And like with anything, even if it's just like like depression. Yeah. But even if it's just like ADD or.
Just like so many undiagnosed things and people think you're unruly or bad and like you're actually dealing with something that you can't quite control and need a little help managing. And just knowing that and knowing how to approach that can really make all the difference. And also, you're not allowed to bring up anything in court. Like I can't say, oh, I have ADHD in court.
unless I actually have a diagnosis that says that I have ADHD. So like these people that go to trial or like they're these people that have these cases where a lot of times like mental illness plays a factor into what they did murder or not like anything. If you don't have a diagnosis, you can't bring it up in court and
If you're in jail and you can't afford bail, then you need somebody to come and bring you a diagnosis. And the burden of that is on the state. And the state is not going to pay for all these experts to come in to give you a diagnosis of severe depression on why you was beating your baby mama so that you could try and, you know, so that you can try and win a court case. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Get a diagnosis. Go talk to somebody. Go see a doctor. With people actually trying to intervene with the kids.
Ashley at 13 and her sister at 9 move in with grandma and grandpa. She moves in with her grandparents. Her grandma, Mary Elizabeth Knowles, and her grandpa, DeRoy Colesis Knowles.
Mary Elizabeth Knowles was born on February 10th of 1926 in Lamar County, Alabama. She received her associate's degree from Stillman College. Shout out to the HBCUs. Got her bachelor's of elementary education at Alabama State. The Alabama State University. Shout out to the HBCUs. Two time. Now, DeRoy was born February 22nd, 1922 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
The two of them, they got married on April 3rd of 1948, and they had a son, Delroy Colcisa Snowes Jr., and seven, count them, seven daughters. There was Vala, Charissa, Carmilla, Patricia, Jadie, Chalneese, and Millerose. Delroy worked as a steel worker at ACIPCO.
And he worked there so long he retired. And the neighbors would describe him as a man who always gave great advice. They said, quote, he always spoke from a kind Christian heart. He said to treat people they wanted to be treated and he would live by that. He liked to throw barbecues because he always had his family over to his house. The house, you know, some of the neighbors said he had a mate. He was living the life.
He's married. He's got the family. He's got the house. You know, that retirement check coming through. And they just coasting, living the good life, you know. They made a, as the folks say, they did well for themselves, you know. Made a nice home. DeRoy and Mary, they were very gentle and kind-hearted grandparents to their grandkids, you know. A lot of times, that's what the parents look forward to, is that grandparent stage, you know.
They're just ready to spoil. You might not have your life all worked out when you had them kids, but by the time them grandkids come around, you done figured some shit out. And now you get to have fun with it because it ain't usually a 24-7 job. So they loved being grandparents to both of them. They enjoyed their grandkids. Joy was an avid churchgoer and was even a deacon at his church, Hayes Chapel Baptist Church.
And Mary served as the Sunday school superintendent for 22 years. And she was the president of her local missionary society. Now in 1999, she did suffer from a few health issues, which caused her to have limited mobility. But she kept on trucking. Now Millie Rose, that was one of the seven. She was born October 13, 1968. This was the last baby that they had. She was the youngest of all her siblings.
mm-hmm this is Millie who was like she touched me and I ain't having it went to the courts and told and as the baby she was the last to leave the nest and was still living with her parents she was unmarried didn't have any kids I'm not sure if she's living with her parents like
Because she didn't step out on her own yet or because it was convenient or it was just because she was watching after them. And, you know, she was the designated child to look over the parents. And so she stayed in the house because it was easy. I don't know, but she lived there. After Ashley moved in with her grandparents, everybody hoped that she would adjust really quickly, but she didn't.
Instead of being more social with her family now surrounding her, she was reclused. She stayed in her room. She isolated herself. She really didn't talk much. She wasn't really feeling DeRoy's...
Bible-based teachings in life. S has already told you he had a Bible-based approach to everything. If something was wrong, he would say, you just need to pray about it. And she's like, dang it, I don't want to pray. And you know, Miranda, this can definitely be tough. Like coming from a place where it was like a bunch of chaos and adjusting to a place that's probably a lot stricter, especially if he's like leading with the Bible and stuff. Like it...
Transition and change is hard, especially like on teenagers. And this might be coming from a place, you know, like where she has questions and answers and maybe a lot of why me's. And so God might not make sense to her at this point in her life. And it really causes a lot of resistance for her, you know? Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. And she was hoping that she would find...
I don't know, friends, community, something. She's moving schools yet again. And one day some kids in the neighborhood were like, yeah, we're having like a teenage kickback. Why don't you come through? And she's like, okay, yeah, I would love to come through, meet some other people, people my age. I'd be stuck in the house with my grandparents and my little sister. Like, that would be amazing. So she goes to this kickback or whatever, and she meets a boy. And she's like...
Oh my God, he is cute and he's older than me. Damn. At this point, she's 14 and he was 16. She's like, shit, he down there grown, ain't he? And his name was Jeremy Raquel Hart. Now, Jeremy, spelled with a G, he was born in 1983 and people described him as streetwise beyond his years.
I guess you could say that he was in the streets, you know. He was 16. In his mind, he was already a man. He had a one-year-old baby. At that point, shoot, he just needed to survive. And when he met Ashley, shit, he thought Ashley was really cute. So they started really clicking. They clicked that first night, and he knew that that's who he wanted to be with. And he was telling her, you know, I'm the man around these parts, baby girl.
I run this. You see how I bucket these kids? They jump, okay? They already know that when I walk down the street, get off the sidewalk. You know what I'm saying? And she's like, oh, that is so like, damn, I really like how you take control or whatever. He's like, yeah, yeah, baby, you want to see pictures of my kid? And she's like, yeah, I want to see pictures of your kid. Oh, my God.
So if we together, then I'm going to be like, I'm going to be like their stepmama or whatever. And he's like, yeah, baby, because you know I love you. That is not appealing to me in my teenage years. Being a stepmother? Oh, my God. No. You was the ones to stay away from. There weren't a lot of teenage pregnancies at our school. The only girl that was pregnant at our school was, she transferred to our school already pregnant.
There was a girl on the soccer team and she came back the next year with a baby. And my coach was like, who played soccer while you were pregnant? And she was like, I didn't know. Oh, hell no. But anyways, at this point, the two of them, they saying I love you to each other. She know she mean it. She believes that he means it. We in love together.
He had a car. He pick her up. They would skip school. They was locked in. Okay. Grandpa, he was like, the devil is alive. This man won't be at my house. And you, young lady, but your Jezebel spirit, I need you to not have that. Okay. I understand that times are hard right now, but you need to lean on the Lord and not lean on this boy. Okay. And she wasn't trying to hear that because Jeremy was her man, her man, her
And grandpa, you don't understand. And everybody, of course, all the adults are like, listen, your grandpa's telling you what you need to know. Like, they're not playing. You need to stop messing with this boy. And she's like...
No, I'm going to be with Jeremy. And Jeremy's like, baby, I really want to be with you. I just want to run away so we can run away together and we can love each other and we can just go off in the sunset. She's like, yeah, that would be really nice. I really like fuck the world. Fuck everybody else. I just want to be with you. I just want to be with you, baby. Ain't nobody going to treat me like you do. Don't nobody love me the way that you do. And you know what's probably true? That little time that they were quote unquote in love was probably the
The only time that she was like, wow, nobody's loved me like this. And this probably was the real truth. Like, this is what love feels like. And baby, and she really thought it was. And he was like, you know what? If we want to be together, we got to really be together. And if we want to be together, we got to get rid of everybody. She's like, I'll get rid of everybody for you, baby. And he's like, all right, baby, let's come up with a plan. So they're going back and forth. They're trying to figure out a plan. And they was like, OK, we got it.
Ashley know that her granddaddy got guns. It's the country. It's the country. He a Christian man. The book says, have your sword, okay? It's the country. So he definitely has guns. She knows where he keeps them. So she's like, okay, I'm going to steal the guns. I'm going to give them to you, okay, babe? He's like, aight.
And then they're like, well, guns, we're young. We've never used guns before. But we know that if you shoot somebody, they die. Right. So that should be the that sounds like math for sure. And clearly she had watched enough true crime shows because she was like, listen, we need to make it look like, you know, somebody else did it. So we're going to try and rob everybody.
And we need to make it look like somebody else is really trying to get rid of stuff. So let's just set everybody on fire. Rob them, set everybody on fire. It's going to look like somebody else did. And they're like, okay, bet, bet. That's not like a good idea. And so she's like, okay, I got a lot of things to do. I got the guns, give them to Jeremy. Great. Then she's like, got to make a concoction for the fire. She mixes together lighter fluid, nail polish remover, and rubbing alcohol. And she's like, when I tell you I'm going to set them up, I'm going to set them up.
You know what it's giving, Morale? It's giving she walked around the house grabbing everything that said flammable and just mixed it together. Because of what? Yeah, and she had multiple knives just on standby. She knew which one she wanted. She knew the ice pick was a good idea. She just was waiting. After two days of planning, the night came. Dun, dun, dun.
It was Sunday, August 29th of 1999. At this time, Ashley's 14 years old. Jeremy is 16 years old. It's a quiet night at 4600 Campbell Lane. The Knowles house is chilling, big chilling. They're hanging out in the den, watching TV. Grandpa, grandma, little sis and auntie. So they all sitting there watching the Fatbacks because, you know, it's 99. It gets to be about 11 p.m.,
And grandma's like, I'm a little tired. I'm going to head on off the bed. Aunt Millie was like, you know what, mommy, too. And they're trickling off. Now we left with little Mary Elizabeth and grandpa. And little Mary Elizabeth, she starts to get the yawnies. She heads on off the bed.
And Ashley just sitting here, just waiting for everybody to wind on down. And now grandpa's head starting to knock. He catching himself when the head drop and then the head go back up. So now that Ashley's the only one left up, she hits up Jeremy. Figuring on a house phone because it's 99, right? Calls him again around 11 o'clock. And she's like, hey, everybody sleep. It's time for us to make our move.
By 1115, Jeremy makes his way to the house. This nigga comes in with a red bandana tied around his face and a .38 Colt Cobra in his hand. He enters the house and Ashley right there behind him. This man knew what the fuck he came here to do and he ain't had no problem doing it. He walks right in, sees Grandpa on the couch, shoots him right in the face, pulls the trigger twice. Grandpa gets up.
and stumbles into the kitchen and then collapses on the floor in the kitchen. They're like, all right, grandpa's dead. Let's continue on upstairs. Next, they go to Aunt Millie's bedroom where she's sleeping. Jeremy goes in, points the gun, shoots her three times. After these three shots,
Ashley and Jeremy see that Aunt Millie's still breathing. And they're a little shocked, like, damn, she's tough. So Jeremy turns to Ashley and says, you finished the job. So Ashley is like, okay, looks on the ground. There's like these little portable heaters. Picks them up and starts hitting her aunt in the head with it.
Just boom, boom, boom, knocking her out with this heater. Then takes out one of these handy knives that she's packed with her and stabs her in the chest nine times. She throws three electric heaters on top of her aunt's body.
attempts to set her aunt on fire. Now in the middle of this, Grandma Mary wakes up. Now you remember she's got some mobility issues, so she's moving a little bit slow, but she's hearing a lot of commotions for it to be 11 o'clock at night. It's bedtime. It's time for everybody to settle down. So she heads towards Millie's room, and she's like, Millie, girl, what's going on? And she sees Jeremy in his bandana. She was like, Jeremy? Now this fool, he's only got it covering half his face, but nigga, we know who you are.
We see your eyes. We see your forehead. We've seen you before. We know who you are. She says, Jeremy. So Jeremy raises the gun and shoots Grandma Mary in the arm. He tries to shoot her again, but nothing comes out. Now he's out of bullets. So they go back downstairs. And they're like, all right, you know what? Grandma's old. Let's let her die. She'll end up bleeding out or something, but we got shit to finish. They go back downstairs.
Grandpa is still alive. They're shot. Zay done seen this nigga. We've shot you in the head twice. You walked up. You collapsed on the ground, but we thought you were done, like you're old. But no, he's still here. Jeremy's like, I'm just going to beat him to death. Just starts hitting him, punching him. But he was like, matter of fact, before you die,
Tell me where you keep the money. Grandpa, he ain't got much fight left in him, you know? He's already wounded. He really just want his nigga to get whatever he needs and leave his family alone, you know? I'm sure he's distressed, feeling like the man of the house. They done already got me down. I'm sure...
He's coming to realizing that the family that he has left upstairs is in danger. He probably heard Aunt Millie get shot. He probably heard his wife get shot. And he's probably just trying to muster up whatever strength he has left to keep going. So Jeremy's beating on him and he was like, listen, boy, it's money under the mattress. Just get it from under the mattress.
So Jeremy goes under the mattress. He finds $300. Jeremy comes back with the money, grabs two knives from the kitchen, and stabs Grandpa in the neck twice and then cuts his throat open.
Now together, Jeremy and Ashley just continue to stab Grandpa right in the spine. They're sticking a knife in his back. They're just going in, trying to make sure he's good and dead because he's already survived once, right? Technically twice because y'all shot him and he walked. And y'all left him to die and he's still here. So they are really trying to make sure this nigga's cooked. So Ashley pours her little flammable concoction on top of him and sets him on fire.
I don't know if you ever used to play with fireballs and shit growing up, but like we used to like take aerosol sprays, whether it was like hairspray or perfume or something. But it was especially fun if you could hold down the nozzle and it continued to spray. But even if you just sprayed it once, we used to like spray like bricks and stuff or walls outside with the perfume and then put a lighter to it and go. But the fire doesn't stay like.
The fire eats up all that flammable liquid and then it's out, you know? And if you have like a continuous spray, it'll spray out for like 30 seconds max, but it's eating up the flammable liquid. So the same way she got all this flammable liquid, puts it on grandpa, she lights that shit, it comes up and it dies just as quickly, you know? The fire lets itself out. He's only been burning for like a few minutes, but he's still trying to hang on. Grandma musters up all her energy because...
Same way he feeling. You know, this is her husband of 51 years downstairs dying. This is her family in danger too. So she's mustering whatever strength she got left and she's going downstairs. And she sees her husband on the floor and she goes to him and she's like, hold on, Dora. Please don't leave me, baby. Please hold on. While she's trying to speak life into her husband,
Jeremy grabs her arm and Ashley begins stabbing Grandma in the back over and over and over with ice pick. She even stabbed her in the face once. She stabbed her in the breast. She stabbed her in the shoulder. Then Ashley pours this flammable liquid on Grandma and Grandpa and again tries to set them on fire. She's continuing to pour this liquid over her grandparents and her little sister, little Mary.
peep from around the corner in the kitchen. She's what, 10 at this time? She's sitting there looking in the kitchen, I'm sure in shock and horror. She's probably heard the gunshots. Who knows how long she's been peeping around this corner, but the sight that she sees is Jeremy in this damn bandana and her sister Ashley with her grandparents on the floor doing their damnedest to make sure that they don't exist anymore.
Ashley sees Mary and Mary sees that Ashley sees her and she makes a break fast run trying to get out the house. Goes for the door, but right before she got out, Jeremy catches her. Jeremy takes the second gun he has and puts it up to her head. You know, basically like, where you think you going? You in it too. Ashley starts punching her little sister and Jeremy was like, I'm just about to shoot her and get it over with. And Ashley says, no, let me do it.
But before Jeremy could pull the trigger, Ashley takes the other knife that she has and begins stabbing her sister again over and over a total of 14 times. As she's stabbing her, Mary collapses and falls to the ground. Ashley is stabbing Mary so deep that she has punctured her lungs.
Mary is just, I don't know if she has been watching Snapped with Grandma or what, but she did some quick thinking and she decides she's just going to play dead and maybe they'll leave me alone if they think I'm dead. So she lays on the ground, gets as still as possible and waits for it all to be over with.
And it worked. Ashley and Jeremy, they prepare to leave the house. They go around, they grab blankets, towels, paper. Again, looking for all things that will catch fire. And they prepare to set the entire house on fire. Ashley pours around a little more liquid. They set these blankets and shit on fire. They take the money, the $300. They take grandpa's keys and they, yep. Granddad had a green Cadillac DeVille.
very noticeable car and they rode away with it after they rode away they went to go pick up this girl named regina now regina hayes she's 21 years old ashley and jeremy they were too young to get a hotel room so pick up regina regina can also get some beer give regina 200 we got a place to party for the night and this is good right everything's great and
They go to the house. They even call over Jeremy's cousin. His name is DeAndre Riley. They're like, yo, bro, come over, come through, time to party. And DeAndre's like, she, I bet he gets there. Jeremy is like, yeah, DeAndre, let me tell you what happened tonight. You know, he tells his cousin exactly what they just finished doing. And he was like, yeah, we just got away with it, bro. It's the perfect crime.
While they were partying the night away, back at the house, not everybody was dead. Both Mary Elizabeths, little Mary, Ashley's sister, and Grandma Mary, they're both alive. Mary gets up and she realizes that Grandma is still alive. So she helps Grandma to her feet, gets Grandma like on the front porch. And Mary, at 10 years old, stabbed 14 times, starts walking down the street, waiting for somebody to pass by and help.
She's able to flag down a driver who sees that she is clearly extremely injured. He puts her in her truck and they drive to the convenience store where they can call 911. Marie, do you know how scary and disheartening that would be to like see a 10 year old girl with 14 stab wounds just bleeding, leaking like, oh my God, can you please help me?
And then imagine her getting in the car and saying, like, what happened to you? My sister stabbed me and tried to kill my whole family. Like, what the fuck did I just run into tonight? And this is after midnight when all of this went down. And Mary was not just stabbed in, you know, her gut. She had been stabbed in her face, in her stomach, in her back, just about everywhere. Like, this girl is...
Got literal 14 holes poked in her. After they call 911, of course, police, firefighters, EMS, they get to the house. There was still fire coming from the home. Fires put out the blaze. Police find granddad dead in the kitchen. They find Millie upstairs dead inside.
And they also see that there was the heaters lying in her bed, which were very peculiar. Now, the EMS, they worked very hard to work on Grandma Mary and Little Mary. The two of them ended up going to separate hospitals. They put Little Mary at the children's hospital.
and she was treated for multiple stab wounds and for a collapsed lung it seemed like she didn't need any major surgeries she just needed a lot of stitches and she spent a little bit of time in the hospital now grandma she had burns in over 35 of her body when once she got to the hospital her pain was so high and her injuries were so bad that they put her in a medically induced coma and
And she was in that medically induced coma for six weeks. They had to give her multiple skin grafts and she had to learn how to reuse her arm after the burns were healed. Because burns are...
actually really, really, really painful. I always remember that when I get like a small burn, like in the kitchen or something, and I'm like, oh, like, you know, you try to like put the butter or mustard on it and be like, I'm always like, why I can't imagine having this like for real. For real, for real. And it's stuck.
a small degree burn. You know what I mean? Yeah, but even when you have a burn or like a skin graft, like you feel that pain forever. You really, really do. Those nerve endings are fried. It's painful to move. It's painful to grow. It's painful to stretch. Like it's horrible. But back in the neighborhood, everybody was really surprised. Like remember, this family was well known for being kind and generous and
They lived in a pretty well-to-do neighborhood. Their neighbors knew them. Everybody was surprised that something like that would happen in this neighborhood. They said it was unreal. It just, it really didn't make sense. It's hard, like all the family that is alive because it's family against family.
It's really tough. And when you're pointing your fingers at your family members versus being surrounded by them with love, it's a sticky place to be in that a lot of people don't want to be in. No one should really want to be in. The police, they have to investigate. They have to figure out what happened. And luckily, little Mary, she was able to talk. And when they...
They asked her if she knew who did this to them, and she immediately said yes. They were like, wow, okay, who? And when she said it was my sister, Ashley, and my sister's boyfriend, Jeremy,
The police were shocked. They looked more into Ashley's background. They knew that right then she was at Gardendale High School, but she hadn't been there for long. They saw that Ashley had a history of violence and some open cases in the family court that had to do with violence towards her. This didn't come as a shock when they looked in her background, but it was shocking to see what she was capable of doing to her family members.
The police decided that they were going to shake Ashley's joint a little bit, and they headed right for the news. Now, Jeremy and Ashley, they're in their hotel room. They're having a grand old time. Actually, it's like, Jeremy, we did it. We can finally be together. Look at us living the life in this hotel room. Like, this is what we always wanted. They're dead. We really killed them all. This is what we always wanted.
You would think like at this point she'd have remorse kicking in or regret kicking in because she just did away your whole family. But no, her mission is accomplished. They're sitting in front of the TV. They're chilling. And then all of a sudden, breaking news comes on the TV. And the news says that Ashley's grandma and her sister both survived the attack slash fire.
And this girl's jaw drops. She looking at the news like, what the fuck? And she says to herself, I thought I killed that bitch. This has put a damper on Jeremy and Ashley's evening. Their celebratory time. And now they're like, damn, now what do we do?
Because there wasn't supposed to be any survivors, meaning there wasn't going to be any witnesses. And now there's two? This is fucked up. They brainstorm and they decide together that the block is hot. They should probably stay where they at, at least for right now. So they stay in the hotel room for that night. And they plan to leave and make a run for it in the morning. Now, again, children. As much as they think they're planning things out, they're not planning things out all that well.
They're in Ashley's grandpa's stolen car. It's a green Cadillac in Birmingham, Alabama. Like, let's get real. The police are on the lookout. You riding around in a Caddy at a sleazy motel. Come on. And the police spy with their little eyes. A green Cadillac.
The police are like, all right, we're going to sit outside this hotel room and we're going to see who comes to this car. So the police sit out there all night and nobody comes out to that Cadillac. So bright and early this Monday morning at 8.30 a.m., the police go up to the hotel staff and ask them which room Ashley and Hermann's is in. And they, of course, tell the police. So the police go up there and arrest them without incident. Now, after the arrest, they search the motel room.
They find the red bandana Jeremy was wearing. They find empty beer bottles, bloodstained clothes that belonged to Ashley and Jeremy. Although the police did not find her in the hotel room, Regina was still there when the police arrived. But I guess because the focus was on Ashley and Jeremy, nobody even knows about Regina at this point. She's able to slip out and get away. With Ashley and Jeremy in custody, the police begin their interrogation. And of course, they separate them.
They're like, tell us what's going on. Ashley and Jeremy, they ain't got no fight in them. They tell it all. But it was weird because it's not even like, again, it's not giving remorseful. It's not giving distraught. It's giving, this is how we almost got away with it. Yeah, it's just giving fact, fact, fact. Very matter of fact. This happened, this happened, this happened. Then this happened. But we're missing, we're missing that.
She said you care, especially for Ashley. Like, even if Jeremy was like, yeah, fuck this whole family. They try to keep me away from my girl, but like, girl, this is your family.
And Ashley's just like, we both stabbed my granddad, shot Millie second. And then me and Jeremy just started shooting at her. And then I went back in there and she was still breathing. So my hair in her head with the heater and stabbed her in the heart. And then she just started coughing up blood. She goes on to say, we plan to kill everybody in the house and set the house on fire.
And when we went out there and shot my granddaddy, I set my granddaddy on fire too, but he wouldn't die. And so we just kept on stabbing him. And then the blood got everywhere. Just very super matter of fact. I tried this. It didn't work. Ya got me. I don't give a damn. Both Ashley and Jeremy were charged with two counts of capital murder and two counts of attempted murder. And before the detectives could leave the room...
so that the officers could take Ashley away, she asks if she can tell Jeremy that she loves him one last time. Ooh, Chile. Little lady, I'll let him know that you said that. Right. And then I'll let you know what he said in return. How about that? The first week of September, little Mary was released from the hospital.
But of course, who's going to look after her? She stayed with her grandparents. Grandpa's dead. Grandma's in a medically induced coma. She's already been taken away from her mom and her dad. So she's put in the custody of the Department of Human Resources.
While they're being charged, Jeremy was to be charged as an adult, but they hadn't yet figured out how they were going to charge Ashley. They could charge her as an adult. This is a capital murder charge, so it's not like she would be eligible for the death penalty because you can't have the death penalty if you're under 16 at the time. She would still face life without the possibility of parole.
But before they could fully decide if they were going to charge her as an adult, they needed to make sure that she was mentally sound. So obviously the court was told about any times that she had been at a mental facility and she was then placed in the custody of the Jefferson Family Court undergoing psychological evaluations.
Now, if Jeremy and Ashley were going to be tried together, that went back and forth for a little while. For a while, their trials were consolidated. Then they were separated again. Then they were consolidated. They were separated again. And finally, they decided that they were going to actually be tried separately.
Immediately, immediately, Jeremy's lawyer tried to separate the two in the media. This happened in August of 99. I saw an article in September of 99 in the Birmingham Post-Herald where Jeremy's lawyer was like, listen, Jeremy and Ashley, they weren't even girlfriend and boyfriend. The lawyer, his name was Emory Anthony Jr. He was like, no, he didn't.
he really don't even know her that well. Woo, the way that that would have pissed me off from the jailhouse seeing that in the newspaper. And then the lawyer also said his folks believe he's not guilty, which I think is a very interesting quote because it didn't say, Mr. Lawyer, that you believe that Jill Klein was not guilty. His folks believe that he's not guilty. Anyways.
On January 14th of 2000, Ashley was finally indicted by a grand jury on two counts of capital murder and two counts of attempted murder. Both Ashley and Jeremy tried to see if they could apply for the youthful offender status, but that application was denied.
And you know what's really wild? This entire time when Ashley is locked up, she still has visitors. Her grandmother, who is moving extremely slowly and has a long road of recovery, is visiting her while she is locked up. And her sister writes her letters, even while she's getting ready to... Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch.
Her trial started in March of 2001 and Judge Gloria Backell presided over the case. Now, I heard a lot about Gloria Backell on the Internet. And apparently everybody knows that if you stand in front of her, you're going to get the book thrown at you. Ashley's lawyer, his name was Joe Morgan III. And he said that Ashley was not guilty by reason of mental defect.
They cited that she was immature. She had a history of sexual and physical abuse. She came from a highly dysfunctional family that contributed to her state of mind. They even talked about how Javed, her stepdad, is currently waiting to be
for abusing Ashley. And you know what pisses me off? Like when they started bringing this up in court, Javed, his lawyers, of course, are trying to get in front of the media because his time in court hasn't happened. And in that they were just like, I just want to remind everybody. I just want to remind everybody that he's being charged with sexual abuse, not rape. Just reminding everybody this is not rape. I read that in the newspaper article and I was like...
My guy. Is that the only thing that you have to say? I just want to remind everybody that... Is that your go-to? Is that supposed to make me feel better? That instead of raping her, you sexually abuse her? That's supposed to make me feel better? And they said it twice, and I was like, oh, so you're really trying to drill that into the reader. Okay, great, great, great. Love the news. Love newspapers. Yeah. Ashley did not take the stand during her trial, but...
Her confession tape was played. And remember, that was from her very first talk with the police. And they tried to get it thrown out because, of course, she was a minor. She didn't have an adult present. They thought that she wasn't fully mentally sound. From the parts that they played, she said, everybody in the house was going crazy and everybody just didn't get along. I wouldn't get along with anybody and we just...
Killed them. I just want to be with him, like, forever. I don't know. I wasn't thinking or something when I was doing all of this. Or something is right, girl. Mm-hmm. So the prosecutor, Laura Poston, represented the state, and she made it very clear to the jury that Ashley showed no emotion, no remorse. The coroner determined that DeRoy and Millie Knowles died from stab and gunshot wounds.
He testified that both victims suffered greatly from their wounds before they died. Like it wasn't no peaceful end to the night. They suffered. They went slow and they went hard. He even compared Ashley to Ted Bundy, saying that she was a psychopath because she showed little to no remorse.
Both Grandma Mary and Little Mary testified to what happened that night. After Grandma gave her testimony, he came and she hugged Ashley and told her, you know, I love you, baby. That is some sort of forgiveness right there, boy. But she says, you know, I love you, baby. Much of the testimony is what we told in the murder. Grandma did testify to the fact that she knew that it was Jeremy, even though he was wearing a bandana at the time of the murder. Grandma also said on the stand, quote,
Don't send her away for life. Maybe give her parole in 10 years so she can have a family, have a life. Like, she legit just wants the best for Ashley, has always just wanted the best for Ashley. But Ashley is too fucking blind to see this shit. Too fucking in love, too fucking young and dumb.
And grandma is still out here fighting for you. In the closing arguments, the defense claims that Ashley's statements to the police were unreliable and should not have been taken because she didn't have her parents or a lawyer present. Ashley initially told investigators that she didn't want to make a statement, but they kept pressing her and eventually she talked. Now, the defense is up here arguing no means no. It doesn't mean maybe. It doesn't mean later. It means no. So they should have never took her statement because the girl said no.
He also added the fact that Ashley's grandma and sister are still sweet on her. And they write and they visit her. They're like, come on now. These are the victims. Even the victims are fighting on her behalf, hoping for the best outcome for her. So I need y'all to look. If they don't want to come with all this malice, why do you? If they don't want to have all this energy, why do you? And the prosecutor goes back and says, listen, I told y'all once, I told y'all twice, Ashley's a sociopath.
She, quote, sat coolly as she saw multiple pictures of the bodies of her granddad and her aunt. Prosecutor also said that grandma and sister had constant affection towards her, but that's what makes the crime so horrific. Girl, these people loved you. This is what you do to the people that love you? That care about you? That protect you? Mm-mm.
She said, quote, it makes it all the more heinous and atrocious. That girl was loved and cared for. She lived in a four bedroom house, had food on the table. What did she do? She went partying at the hotel with her granddaddy's blood on her socks and her grandmother's blood on her shirt. Y'all think about that.
when you're trying to come up with a determination for how you think the rest of her life should go. On March 2nd of 2001, Ashley was convicted of all counts after just a 30-minute jury deliberation. I'm sure it didn't take long because the fuck? Just about everyone in the court was surprised. Yeah, because you say don't give her a long time, but this is a capital murder, and she did capital murder, so she's going to get guilty of capital murder. My girl. It's just the law at this point.
For whatever reason, Mirage, this came as a surprise to everyone in the court, even to her family. Like, what? Y'all really? But, you know, they really did. Now, Beth Knolls, Ashley's aunt, said, quote, We have lost three people that we love very much by the hands of somebody that we loved very much. It has only been because of the strength of our faith that we survived this.
The tragedy doesn't end with this. We feel that if someone breaks the law, they are bound to receive consequences. Not to send their own message that violent crimes can continue and that leads to more tragedy. But this doesn't end our pain. We're being sentenced just like she is. When the jury came out and they read that guilty verdict, this is the first time that we're seeing
any kind of emotion from Ashley. She ends up crying and her dad, Eugene, he's there and he's hugging her as she was found guilty. You know, there's a picture of Eugene hugging her at the end of the trial. And honestly, have you seen that picture? She looks, I bet I can find it in two seconds. I think I screenshot it. Look how young she looks.
Yeah, in this newspaper article, there's a picture. She looks, of course, young because she is. But that picture from dad, honestly, it looks like...
It looks insincere. Like, it really does look disingenuous. You think so? Yeah, it does. Of course, you're sad that that happened, but it also... It doesn't seem like she's embracing him back. I think her world is rocked. But also, how can you? You're getting this quote-unquote love from one of your abusers. Abusers, yeah. And your whole world is shifting all at the same time. I don't know. Maybe I'm just overanalyzing it, but...
After the trial, she does give a statement to the local paper, and she said, quote, I really ain't came up with no answer yet. I just say it happened. I don't know the reason for real. I just lost touch with reality. All that was happening, it wasn't me. I feel like something possessed me. She also says that she got the idea for setting the fire to cover up the evidence from a TV show called Melrose Place.
And it's very much giving you don't know because it's pretty much inexplicable. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that tracks, girl. Jeremy's trial started later on that summer in 2001. And during jury selection, they pulled Jeremy in another room because, you know, they're always trying to give you that last minute, like, here's the plea deal. You can take the plea deal.
and his attorneys are trying to get him to take the plea deal the prosecutors are trying to get him to take the plea deal and inside the courtroom they can hear Jeremy yelling he's like I'm tired of y'all asking me to cop to something I didn't do I ain't motherfucking do it I ain't gonna do it it happened it got so bad that the bailiff had to restrain him and when the bailiff restrained him and cuffed him the bailiff was like hey sit down boy Jeremy turned around he said don't call me boy
take off these cuffs and call me boy again and first of all I know that was a white bailiff I know Jeremy's probably upset you wrong for what you did but you also in Birmingham Alabama call me boy take off these cuffs and call me a boy and he really meant that shit now and the plea deal was life without the possibility of parole so it was literally like you go to trial and you either get the death penalty or you're going to get life without the possibility of parole or you're going to get
So it's, you know, he rolled the dice. Shoot. He said he was going to go to trial. He said he was going to tell everybody that he didn't do it. He kept saying he didn't do it. Even though his cousin DeAndre got on the stand and talked about how that same night Jeremy told him straight in his face that he shot granddaddy. And he told him in his face that he struck granddaddy in the spine. And DeAndre told the whole court that Regina got on the stand and she talked about how Jeremy gave him $200 for the rent of the motel.
hotel room and to get alcohol for them both and talked about how she saw them on the local news and both of them got real nervous very quickly at his sentencing hearing he refused to let his mom his sister get up on the stand and beg for his leniency he said listen i'm not gonna let my folks get up here and beg for nothing what you you gonna do what you gonna do
And you're going to do it regardless. And the judge, this white lady, was like, I actually haven't made my decision yet. This is a part of the process. You know, this helps me make my decision. And he said, listen, all my life I've been played the hand I was dealt. So why not now? Which, you know, that also goes to show what he thought life was like from his point of view, you know. And at this point, what's the last thing my family going to do? Y'all going to do what you want to do. I'm not going to have my family begging to know white people.
And so the judge thought about what his sentence would be. And even though the prosecution wanted him to have the death penalty, the judge said the death penalty for you would be just too easy. Life without the possibility of parole. On April 16th of 2001, in her sentencing, Judge Bajakel said...
quote, Ashley did not express genuine remorse of her actions. Although she apologized at the prompting of the court, her words were hollow and insincere. Furthermore, it was brought to the attention of the court that while awaiting her sentencing, the defendant had threatened older female inmates in the Jefferson County Jail by telling them she would do the same thing to them that she had done to her own family.
Grandma pleads to the judge, says, please don't, don't, don't send her away for life. I want her to serve a little time so she could remember what she done. I wanted her to serve a little time so she could remember what she done. If they give her 10 years or put her in an institution for her nerves, that'd be okay. They done what they done. The Lord delivered me from it and I don't want them to go away forever.
For her nerves, girl. I said, ain't that the country shit? Mm-hmm. Nerves is bad. It's because her nerves are bad. No, it's because that girl has been traumatized. Her nerves bad because her mama nerves were bad. Because her daddy nerves were bad. They passed down nerve problems. The judge asked Ashley if she had anything she wanted to say and she choked out. I'm sorry.
Ashley then told the judge that she now realizes that the problem she has when it comes to expressing her emotions and trying to control her anger. And she asked for help instead of jail time, saying, quote, just 16 years old. I'm not penitentiary material. I think you're exactly penitentiary material. You ain't threatening no ladies. She said.
Stuff like being jailed with grown women would do nothing but corrupt her mind further, which is probably also true. Arguing that, you know, these women are mean and scary. And so she felt like she had to defend herself because these women out here saying big, mean and scary things to her. I say you wrong for saying it's probably going to corrupt you further because going into a woman's prison at 16, it just might do that to you, especially when you facing life.
He just might. But if anybody has earned it, it was you. The judge asks, what could it make you do that you haven't already done? Which is an excellent question. And then the judge brings back up the fact that she was already threatening inmates while she was awaiting trial. So she seemed like you seem to be adjusting, girl. You seem to be handling yourself all right. So then a judge tells her, look at your grandma.
take a look at your grandma and tell her that you loved her. And so Ashley looks at her grandma and she was like, I love you, grandma. And grandma said, I love you too. God bless you. Now, Judge Bajakel says to Ashley, quote, a grandparent's love is special. And she warned her that one day she would understand just how much she had thrown away.
She said, quote, you'll know when you understand because at that time, you're going to cry from the depths of your soul from what you have done. She continues to explain to Ashley that the law didn't give her any choice except for life without parole for the heinous crimes that she's committed.
And although Ashley and Jeremy were both juveniles at the time of the murder, they got life in prison for each of the attempted murder indictments and life in prison without the possibility of parole for the capital murder charges. Ashley's lawyer, Joe Morgan III, said, quote, it was a little worse than I anticipated. Not gonna lie. But there aren't many surprises and Ashley was prepared for it.
How do you predict the reaction of a child being told they're going to have no life? Ashley's grandma said that she was disappointed with the outcome. And she said, quote, if she had to do it over again, she would. The devil just got in her. Who's to say the devil won't get a hold of her little ass again? You didn't like your grandparents' house and him throwing the Bible at you? Because maybe the devil was in you. Maybe there was a spirit in you that needed to get out. And they recognized it. But also, like, I do feel like...
She wanted... She's just a sweet soul. She didn't want... You know, like, she was being... Yeah, grandma too nice, man. But this was at the beginning of somebody actually intervening. Like, she just got somebody listening to her. She just got a diagnosis. She just started living in a safe house, you know? Yeah.
So I think grandma's really trying to take all of that into consideration. Yeah, what she did was wrong and she definitely shouldn't have done it. And now you've taken away the man that I've been married to for 51 years. But also, I knew you was fucked up before you came in this house. And everybody knew when we brought you in this house that you were going to need that extra love and attention. They just weren't expecting you to find that love and attention in this boy and it go south so quickly, you know? Mm-hmm.
Now, Ashley filed for a new trial, but it was ultimately denied by the court. She appealed the whole conviction, saying that her sentence violated her Eighth Amendment right to cruel and unusual punishment. And then the Alabama court, they decided that they were going to confirm her conviction and her sentence, and it was going to stay the same. Jeremy also put in an appeal, and he said that the court erred when it denied his motion for continuance.
Apparently, his attorney, Emery Anthony, wasn't quite ready for trial and he needed for his lawyer to have more time to prepare and his lawyer was not able to get more time to prepare. They said that the court erred when it came to evidence and he said that the court erred when it denied his motion to suppress the statement that he gave to the police, which is like...
He said that he confessed because he was under duress, but also like, that's why you don't talk to the police without a lawyer, whether you did it or you didn't. His appeal was, of course, denied. Now, Ashley's being held at the Tutwiller Women's Prison and Jeremy is being held at the William E. Donaldson Correctional Facility. While in jail, Ashley got her GED. She successfully completed several treatment programs and she is hoping that she can just be a better person while she is behind the prison walls.
Now, if you ask her sister, little Mary, who is not so little anymore, she said that honestly, she blames Jeremy. Jeremy is the person that changed Ashley from the sweetest girl to a cold-blooded murderer. And I feel like that's everybody's sentiment. Yeah. Ashley's grandmother, Mary, passed away on December 19th, 2015. And that...
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rocketmoney.com slash sisters all right y'all it's time for well i'm not black i'm oj i didn't do it but if i did this is how i would get away with it it's so hard because honestly i feel like like i said this was the first time that people were actually trying to step in and help ashley and she wasn't because my want to say is
accept the house that you're living in, follow these rules, even though they seem crazy, but it's also your first time living in a house with rules. These people are trying to help you, but she really wasn't even in the place to realize that these rules were put in place to help her because she's been living a life with her parents that had no rules. You know what I'm saying? Right. And it's hard to be like,
to say, I ain't do it, but if I did, listen to the adults in your life because the adults in your life have failed you, you know? Ugh. I ain't do it, but if I did, let's go kill your family, Jeremy. Let's do that and see how that works. Right. Because Jeremy wasn't living with his mama. Jeremy was living with his auntie that lived in the neighborhood.
So I ain't do it if I did. Like, Jeremy, if you want me out of this situation so bad, give me a fucking place to stay. You could have just ran away from home. You could have just ran away and been at Jeremy's auntie house down the street. Like, the court would have made you come back because you have all these open cases, but...
It's worth a shot. It's worth a shot. You could at least do that a couple times before. Y'all could have got Regina to get y'all that little hotel room. Y'all could have hid out for a couple of days. Girl, you could have just stole that $300 from underneath the mattress. Life is a little harder than expected. Y'all would have took y'all asses on back home. Exactly. They would have robbed the next person to keep going. Who knows? Yeah. I can do it, but if I did, I would learn my flammable substances first.
Just make sure you know what mixtures go well, because it just sounded like she was just throwing spaghetti at the wall and see what would stick. And I ain't do it, but if I did, I wouldn't have did Lil Sis in. Yeah. I don't know what I would have did, but maybe locked her door from the inside or trapped her. I don't know, but I don't know if I could have did her in like that, but she want herself in.
So they say that was a he had the gun up to her head and to be like, no, let me do it. That's psychotic. I do it. But if I did, if I was trying to kill the whole household, I probably the guns is giving loud waking everybody up. So you wait for everybody to fall asleep just to fire off a minimum of eight shots in the house. Right.
Of course, people are going to start waking up. And also for everybody to have been shot as many times as they did. Y'all literally struggled to kill every single one. Y'all were not built for this. You're not good at it. Don't do it. Yeah, you can survive a gunshot wound and he he's still making it around.
And apparently coherent enough to, like, still be fighting for his life. You know what I mean? Yeah, they... It wasn't their best thinking. It's stinking thinking. If anything, go just... If everybody's asleep, just go around slashing necks. You at least would have... Shit, you slashed granddaddy neck and he still was alive. That's all I'm saying. Babe was just bad at it. And you left such a crazy crime scene. You don't think... It's crazy. Like, people really do... And sometimes I do this. I really think that...
Sometimes when I leave people, I forget that their lives still go on. Like things still happen even if I'm not present. I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know why. But the fact that you thought that you were just going to be able to kill everybody, run away, and nobody was going to ask where you were. You were just going to be able to be away. Right. The entire family died and we can't find Ashley. Oh, you thought that was what was going to happen? Parole or no parole? Parole.
She's got a life to live, but I'm definitely not going with what Grandma said and paroling her after 10 years. That's just not going to do. Maybe after 40, 10 years for every person who she destroyed. Because even afterwards, like...
As much as they still want Ashley there, they still have to grieve that loss. Little Mary was 10 years old and saw her grandpa being stabbed to death. Her aunt Millie's dead. Grandma was in a coma. She had to go and be a ward of the state. Like...
or had to be a child of the state. Like, went through a lot because you got a boy crazy. Grandma went through a lot. Lost her man for 51 years. Lost her daughter. Like, went through a lot. Probably lost her house. The house probably fucked up to some extent, at least. You know what I mean? Even then, I wouldn't want to live at the house. You know what I mean? It's destroyed, tainted all the memories. Ten years is definitely not going to cut it.
Maybe you could do 10 years a person and we could talk at 40, but you really don't get that chance because you got without parole. But I'm glad she's at least working towards something, getting her GED. I don't know that I would care about anything at 13 years old, life in prison. But I think you have to care about something to survive. I disagree with you, honestly. I do think that she was young and she was boy crazy. I do think that her background really needs to be taken into consideration. You know, the fact that
she wasn't around sound adults. And this was her first time being around sound adults. And she clearly had a problem with authority because she was taught through life not to trust authority. So I do think that that needs to be really taken into consideration when talking about what her sentence should be. I feel like...
Since she was so young when this happened, she was 14. I do think like she should have like 25 years and then after that be eligible for parole, depending on how she was doing in the prison walls. I do think that, you know...
Call me crazy, but I feel like there... Maybe. I feel like there may be a chance for her to actually be redeemed when she is able to understand her emotions, when she's able to understand what love is, when she's able to understand what support is, what it actually looks like. I don't know necessarily that it's saying that she can't be redeemed, but you got to face a consequence for four different lives. You know what I mean? And...
Yes, her background. I feel like taking her background into consideration, okay, I'll offer parole. But looking at the crime itself, not only was it heinous, not only was it not to people who harmed you, but for the people who loved and protected you and still stayed that way. And you still weren't remorseful. Have we even seen any real remorse? She needs serious treatment.
She really might need to be in a psych ward because what did you do? But also, is it possible that she's always had this constant yearning for freedom, freedom from her parents, freedom from the turmoil, freedom for her to just do whatever she wanted without hearing about it? And he offered that freedom or she thought that Jeremy offered that freedom. And so for that moment that she...
you know, disassociated from logic, from right and wrong. Her mind was tunnel vision on this is what I have to do to finally be happy, to finally find freedom. And it was the wrong choice. But is it possible that that's where her mind was? Could be. She would have hurt a lot of other murderers. And then taking into consideration the amount of rage, like,
She was already had a lot of rage inside of her. You got to be doing that shit at 14. So I was like, she may very well need to be in a psych ward. But does she need to be in a psych ward forever? Are those things that she can recover from? No, I'm not saying forever, but she needs serious addressing. And like, I wouldn't release her before somebody has like... But then that's the thing with psychopaths is they learn how to like be normal and say what they need to say.
Because is she really psychotic or psychopathic? Or was it a break? You know, I think that also needs to be investigated. Or was it that she didn't learn the basic skills of emotional intelligence that you should have by the age of 14? And it's going to take her longer to get it. All that needs to be investigated by a professional. Yeah. I'm interested to hear what you guys think. And you guys can totally tell us anywhere online. But that's the end of our show. Let's read some reviews and go home.
If you love this show, which we hope you do if you made it this far, please leave us a review. Share this with your friends. Make sure you're following us so you can get updates every week when we post a new episode. Leave us a review. This one says five stars and it's specifically talking about a past episode, the Latoya episode from NaturallyRenee.
naturally renee says five stars i swear i thought this episode was going to have a different outcome like think about it crystal moved in latoya not the only one creeping because while she was with mr allen from subway eat fresh crystal and her husband were getting down see i ain't arguing with crystal i could have sworn latoya was gonna catch them together and get both of them either way this story was good
Thank you so much. Glad you enjoyed. Which is crazy. Like, the story definitely could have gone that way, but it didn't. Thanks so much for being here. All right. What's yours? This one says, long-time listener, first-time caller. My sister put me on around episode three, and I've been hooked ever since. I'm newly a stay-at-home mom and binged everything from episode one. Sad that I'm now caught up for the second time. You go, Gwen Coco.
You guys are the highlight of my week. I love seeing my peers thrive. Keep shining, ladies. Thank you, girl.
Thank you so much. Go ahead and follow us everywhere. Sisters Who Kill, S-I-S-T-A-S. Okay, I'm so sorry you guys hear this train in the background. I am recording in a tent. I am in a tent out in the wilderness. In an actual tent. In an actual tent because of course I am. So you guys are hearing nature. Follow us. Sisters Who Kill, Sisters Who Kill Pod, Sisters Who Kill Podcast everywhere. Shop sisterswhokill.com. Get you some merch.
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