Lena Baker : A Black History Month Special
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And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Happy Black History Month, everybody. You know that we love to give you really special cases throughout the national holidays that celebrate us. This is an episode that you guys have been asking for, I don't know, since we started the podcast, maybe? Pretty much. We're really excited to tell you guys this story. Just know that this

It's a trigger warning, a formal trigger warning for sexual abuse, white people in the South, murder at the hands of the state, being black in America. So a trigger warning for all of those. Our players this week are Queenie Baker, Lena's mom, Eugene Knight, Ernest's son, Ernest Knight, Lena's boss and our victim, and Lena Baker, our murderess.

Lena Baker was born on June 8th, 1900, in a small town named Cotton Hill, Georgia, to her parents, Mack Baker, who was a farmer worker, and her mother, Queenie Harris. Now, her mother was the daughter of slaves. And to give you a little bit of where we are in history, the Civil War ended in 1865, which brought Georgia into like the Reconstruction era, which

which was a time in the South, especially in Georgia, because there was civil, political, economic disrupt. The war is over. People are now free. And HBCU started popping up around this time. During and after the Reconstruction era, the NAACP started things

Things were really moving and grooving in a fast way at this time. And this is like pre-World War. Now, Lena was one of five children. She had a brother and three sisters, all delivered at home, and their home was a former slave house. I'm not sure if dad could read and write,

But it looks like mom knew how to read and write. And the census at the time would be like name. Could you read or write? So we knew that Lena, Minnie, Oscar and Winnie knew how to read. And we're not sure about the other siblings. Yeah.

Just like everybody else in the South, they grew up in the church. Lena sang in the choir as a young girl, and she spent a lot of time working and trying to help her family make ends meet. She did go to school, but she ended up dropping out after the sixth grade so that she could work and help support her family. Everyone in her family worked. Her, her parents, her siblings, they did farm work for different families.

farms around the county, depending on the season that they were working. And they later moved to Cuthbert, Georgia. Now, I did find this in the Here's Some Tea. I don't know where this particular piece of tea is in the story. But as we know, Lena could read and write anything.

And on some legal documents that she signed, you know, they ask you, are you a widow? Are you married, separated, divorced? And she marked both divorced and separated. So didn't find any marriage certificates, but maybe there was a husband somewhere in her life. Just a random tidbit of knowledge that...

I wasn't able to put a timeline on. Now, here it is. It's about the 1920s. Lena is in her late teens, early 20s, and money is not great. It is hard out here. So she opens up a business of her own, an entrepreneurial experience, if you will. She had this homegirl. Her name was Lizzie. And her and Lizzie, they opened up a lewd house. Those that don't know what a lewd house is, it basically means they were selling cat, okay? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And that's the thing, like money is scarce, but men, you know what they're going to spend their money on. And the tea was their lewd house where it was just her and her homegirl. It wasn't just black men coming through. It was white men coming through as well. So it was really scandalous over there. And apparently they had it for a little while. But finally, somebody told the sheriff that, you know,

They're out there having sex with black men and white men for money. And so they ended up getting arrested. So they go to trial. And on May 10th, 1920, they're tried and sentenced to 10 months of hard labor and

They go to a convict lease labor farm, and that is exactly what it sounds like. Convict, as in a prisoner, and lease, as in the state is renting you out to do hard labor. So they were on the chain gang. Very similar to what you see in the prison system today. It hasn't changed by much.

They have to pay you now, so they'll just pay you pennies on the dollar. Now, the sheriff that arrested her, his name was Sheriff Walter Taylor. And Sheriff Walter Taylor also was her probation officer and was the one that...

looked over the work farm that she was working at at the time. She does her 10 months. She's released. There wasn't a really big welcome home party for her. Like the whole town, they're in a small town. The whole town knew that you went away for selling pussy. So your family is just like, girl, get in this house and let's find you a real J-O-B. And that's what they did. One of the main sources that we used for this episode was the Lena Baker story by Leela Bond Phillips, which is comprised of like

interviews and court records, all that. And in that book, she talks about how Lena started working with her mom as a washerwoman. And as a washerwoman, you may get a dime, you may get a nickel per basket of laundry. If somebody doesn't have it, you may get food in exchange for the fact that you did laundry for somebody. So everybody's doing what they had to do to survive. Lena, whenever she had some extra change,

some extra money she would like to get herself something to drink that was her her thing she liked to drink now eventually as time passes lena ends up getting pregnant four times and gives birth to three children the survived children are james edward born in 1934 nelsie born in 1937 and edna lee born in 1939 all three of their birth certificates don't have any information about a father address name none of that

And so here it is. It's Lena, her mama Queenie, and three children living in like a two-bedroom house shack, really. And Lena, times are hard. Every time she got a little extra money, just go get a little something to drink.

Just to take the edge off, you know? There was this restaurant that was in the town, and for 50 cents you could get some homebrew, which is basically some moonshine, and that was her drug of choice. I heard reports saying that she liked homebrew, but really she was a whiskey drinker, and you could go and get whiskey, but homebrew, you know, you could get arrested for it if you're not careful at that time. Mm-hmm.

I mean, and that's what she did. So it wasn't abnormal for her to put the kids to bed, go out, get drunk and sneak back into the house. But she was trying to do better. She stopped drinking for a little while, got back into church with her mom, made sure that the kids were in line, was really working on getting herself on the right path. She didn't want to go back to jail, to a labor camp. You know what I'm saying? In Georgia as a black woman in 1920? No, thank you.

So one day in 1941, Lena Baker is approached by this man. His name is Albert Knight. And he's like, Lena, let me talk to you for a second. Here you need a job. And she's like, well, yes, sir. What you got? Says that his mom just passed away from thrombosis and his dad broke his leg and needs somebody to take care of him.

Job seems easy enough. He's offering good pay with it, so it sounds like a good deal. Except for his daddy is Ernest B. Knight. And Ernest has a reputation of being a mean man with a bottle in his hand. And you know that don't do nothing but make mean men meaner. It's kind of like, eh, we'll see. She gets hired by him, and he ran a gristmill. This man is 23 years older than Lena, who at the time is...

41, because she was born in, what, 1990? This man is like 64 years old, but he still got a bite to him. Ernest Bynum Knight Sr. was born on October 17, 1876, in Jasper, Georgia. His parents were James R. Knight and Mary Ann Knight.

He grew up in like a slave period, so he's an entitled white man for sure. Like more entitled than today's. He got married on his birthday in 1894 to Fannie Mott. She had passed away early in the year on March 4th of 1941, but together they had two daughters, Vera Knight and Yvonne Knight.

They had four sons, Albert Knight, Eugene Knight, and Ernest Knight Jr. He ran a gristmill. Gristmill is basically where you grind cereal grain into flour for bread and stuff like that.

And he was always known to have a pistol on his chest, a drink in one hand, and just the outright bad attitude. You didn't want to come across Mr. Knight. He's going to fuck up your day every time. So he breaks his leg, and he's struggling to get around, keep up his house chores and everything. And Albert, that's crazy that Albert is the oldest but not the junior. Okay, because that's the tea. I couldn't figure out. I was going to find a way to bring it up, but...

it's giving that his junior is not the oldest. It's giving the junior low-key is the youngest. Or... He ran out of names and was like, fuck it. Just name him a name. You know what I'm saying? There's one that lives in Tallahassee, that's going to live in Tallahassee. One that lives there that's

Eugene, and then one that lives in Cairo, Georgia. It's crazy, but it's given that his junior is not his junior age. So, yeah, Albert is the oldest son. So Albert goes to Eugene, who's the middle child, and is like, listen, need you to take care of dad. I hired somebody. Just make sure he's good. You make sure she gets paid. And, you know, keep him off our hair. We shouldn't have to do too much with him. Selena starts work.

She's helping him get back on his feet. She's cooking. She's cleaning. She's doing the laundry. You know, she don't mind it because she's making some money. Like, for her, this feels like life-changing money. She wasn't making this much money since she was in the Lou house, right? And now she just gets to do a good, legal, clean job and earn a nice keep to where she could take some of the burden off her mother. She's all here for it. Everything started fine, but after a few months of, you know, working for Ernest...

A relationship of the sexual nature started to happen. It's very unclear, especially with this time period, right? So it's very hard to say, you know, if this was a consensual relationship, because with the power structure of this time period,

I don't know that consent really can exist. So I read the book for the research. I scoured the newspaper articles and I was reading an article that was talking about reasons why black people were hung during this time.

When I tell you it was offended a white woman, man offended a white woman, so they lynched him. There was a woman reprimanded a white child for throwing rocks at her, hung. There was guy made white woman feel uncomfortable in a grocery store, hung. Like, it took nothing to lose your life to these white people. You got hung for reprimanding a white child for throwing rocks at you?

In this type of power structure, can you really give consent? Anybody ever wanted to make the argument that, oh, how can you compare it to today? What if she did like him? Well, if you compare it to what we consider consent today, she was drunk. So there's no way that she could have ever given him consent because he was the one that was supplying liquor to her, dangling her number one vice in her face.

Come on, you did a good job. Come on, let's have a drink. Here, have another. Here, have another. But it was definitely made out to be at least among the white people. The sex was Lena's doing or like, you know. And then you have that reputation. Right. A lot of people at that time, the men of that age, they they know who Lena is because they've been to that lewd house when she had it when she was a teenager. Right.

Right. In town. This was so close to slavery that Lena's mom was born to a slave. Right. And so even when you think about those relationships, Massa wanted any of the women in his bed that night. It was done. And again, it wasn't seen as rape. It wasn't seen as assault. He had what he wanted. And who else was going to tell him something different? Right.

When Lena wasn't at the house with Ernest, she was trying to help her mom out, washing clothes, and also trying to get rid of this hangover that she kept getting. And it's a small town, and everybody know what's going on down there with her and Eugene. Everybody's saying all they do is drink and be laid up and be laid up and drink. And this is driving Eugene crazy.

Everybody talking about his daddy, disrespecting his daddy name, saying that he's laying down with some Negro woman. Like, how dare they speak on my daddy name like that? So he's like, fuck this shit. Lena got to go. So Eugene calls his brother and he's like, yo, bro, our dad, Ernest, is getting on my fucking nerves, man. He is up here doing all types of shit. Can't stand it.

You got a boarding house down there, right? Why don't you let dad stay in the boarding house for a little while so that he can just get his mind together? You know he can't turn down a drink. He always drunk. I don't let him drink around me. I've been trying to get him to go to church. He just do what he want to do. Now he trying to save his soul. Why don't you take him...

Because they're such good Christian folk. Right. Why don't you let dad go down to Tallahassee with you? So his brother's like, yeah, bro, send dad down here. Now, here's the team. Lena ended up down in Tallahassee. And I don't, it's not clear how she ended up down there. One of two things had to have happened. Either Ernest went behind Eugene's back and talked to his other son and was like, yo, I need her to come with me because my leg is broken. Are you going to take care of me? You going to do my washing? No.

Or he somehow called for Lena to come down there. Either he came and got her or he brought a chariot for her, something. And Lena, next thing she knows, is in Tallahassee with him. Now, Ernest's son in Florida is not really checking up on him like that. Not too much to making sure he's good, but you got a whole boarding house to yourself.

One day he comes at the boarding house and lo and behold, his daddy is laid up with Lena. So he gets very angry. He kicks Lena out of the house. He's like, you can't go. You can't stay here no more. Lena makes her way back up to Georgia. But Ernest's son already called his brother Eugene. It was like, Eugene, I can't believe that this happened. Lena was here, but I sent her back to Georgia.

A couple days after Lena left for Georgia, Ernest put his cap on his head and he said that he's going back to Georgia too and you can't stop me, son. Now Eugene, he's had it with his daddy. He has had it with his dad. He has had it with Lena. He is fed up. Why can't you keep your drunk ass hands off of this black woman? He pulls up to the grits mill and there is Lena a fucking gin. And Eugene...

He went berserk. He pulls Lena and Ernest away from each other. Both of them drunk as hell. Both of them hung over like like really bad. And he starts beating Lena. I mean, punching her under oath. He said, quote, I took her and beat her until I just leave life in her.

And he told her, he said, listen, get out of here. And I never want to see your face again. Ernest, he's like, he's drunk. He's like, son, stop, son, stop. He's like, I don't want to see you again. Do you hear me, Lena? Now, Lena is not working there anymore. Obviously, the sons are no longer paying her. But Ernest always has a bottle. So Lena...

has to get home. People said in interviews that they used to see Lena, not just this one time, but multiple times, walking home, drunk, bruised up, looked like she got her ass beat every time she left that grits mill. And even if Lena wanted to stop, like say Lena, who I'm sure was extremely terrified of Eugene, because like, Ernest, your son is

barely kept me alive Ernest did not care he would roll up to Queenie's house knocking on the door where's Lena where's Lena tell Lena she need to come down to the mill right now where's Lena he would start a racket and she would tell him we cannot be seen together like we can't do what they gonna do to me they ain't gonna do nothing to me they might do something to you but they ain't gonna do nothing to me just bring your ass down to the mill

So we can have a drink and I can continue to rape you. It got so bad that, of course, the town is still talking. Everybody still knows that Ernest got this woman laid up at his house, sometimes for days at a time, having her drunk, not letting her go. One time, even the sheriff, her old parole officer, her old PO comes up and says, Lena, it is against the law in the state of Georgia for two people of different races to cohabitate. You can't live here.

She's like, I don't live here. I don't live here. Like, that's when she's been like, I'm trapped. But every time people were upset with her, Ernest, you know you're not supposed to be doing that, all right? You have a good day. And Ernest coming to the house and grabbing Lena, it's a small town. There's only a couple of roads. Even sometimes when Lena would walk home, just on a regular day walking home, if Ernest wasn't at the boarding house and he was at the mill and he saw Lena, he would just grab her off the street. Come on in. Come have a drink. Lock the door.

Now you're here for days. Oh, you need to work to feed your children because you no longer have a job with me? Doesn't matter. Have a drink. Lay down. So here it is. It's Saturday, April 29th, 1944. And Lena is at home with her mom and they put the kids to bed. And Queenie is like, OK, we have church in the morning. Are you going to come with me? And Lena's like, yes, of course, I'm gonna go with you. And Queenie reminds her. She's like, great. And make sure that after church that you're just there because Monday is a really busy laundry day.

And that's when we get most of our money. So make sure that you're here and you're alert and you're sober on Monday as well as tomorrow while we're going to church. She's like, yes, mom, I absolutely promise. All the kids are asleep. It'll be fine. And they're relaxing. They start laying down. Boom, boom, boom. Knock on the door. You already know who it is. Ernest at the door. Boom, boom, boom. Lena, bring your ass out here. Queenie's like, okay.

She is not well. She cannot come out. I'm not trying to hear none of that. Lena, let's go. And Lena's like, Mom, we don't want to wake up the neighbors. I'm just going to go out there and talk to them. She goes out there, and he's like...

Come on, we about to go to the mill. She can see that he is clearly already drunk. When she turns him down, turns down his sexual advances, when he's drunk, he gets mad. She didn't really want to deal with him that night. So she's like, oh, well, Ernest, why don't you give me 50 cents so I can go down and get some homebrew from the store? He's like, all right, that'll work. And make sure your ass comes by the mill. She's like, oh, yeah, of course. The store is closed, but she an alcoholic. She know where she can get something to drink. She's out for a little while, but

She gets so fucked up that she wakes up at 4 o'clock in the morning. And a man named Mr. Irwin's pastor, drunk. And she's like, oh, fuck. Like, I really drank this whole night. She gets up and she's thinking, she's like, okay, I got to get home. Which way? I want to go home. She was like, Ernest, it's 4 o'clock in the morning. His drunk ass probably at the boarding house. He probably not even at the mill right now. I'm going to go do the shortcut and make sure I go home.

So she starts walking. She passed by the mill. And Ernest was sitting outside like, bitch, you thought I was asleep. I'm up and drunk and angry. And how dare you try to bail on me? Grabs her, brings her inside. She's like, listen, I cannot do this. I'm not supposed to be here.

Your son done beat me. The police told me not to come. My mama needs me tomorrow. We got church in the morning. Them kids is at home. I need to leave. And he's like, no, no, no, you need to stay. And so then she's like, you got something to drink? He's like, no. She's like, I got to go. I really do. And she's really messed up at this time. She's like, listen, OK, how about this? I'm going to take a nap. It's four o'clock in the morning. I need to be at church in the morning. Make sure that you wake me up.

So I can go to church. He's like, yeah, yeah, just lay down. Just go to sleep. She's like, okay. And so she lays down. When she wakes up, the sun is shining. She looks at Ernest. She's like, you were supposed to wake me up.

So that I could go to church. I told you that I had to go to church. He said, you ain't going nowhere. She's like, yes, I have. I told you this. I have to go to church. And then tomorrow I have to do laundry with my mom all day. Who are going to pay the bills around my house? We're going to feed them children. I have to work. He said, listen, you ain't going nowhere. And I don't want to hear shit else about it. OK. And she's like, no, I have to go. He said, if you go, I'm going to kill you. How about that?

And so he gets himself together because he's going to church with his son. His other son is coming in town. So he takes her. He leaves her in there. No whiskey, no food. And he locks the mill from the outside. So inside she can't get out. I'm sure her mom's at church wondering where the hell she is. Probably has an idea where she is, but she promised that she would be at church and she's not.

So it's April 30th, 1944. Lena been back locked in the gristmill all day, sweating, just in there, don't know when he coming back. Ernest is out with his sons all day. He's ready to get back to Lena. He ready to have a little sweet. His sons, they don't even let him drink around them no more. So he for real ready to get away from them because ain't been nothing but a problem to him.

He walks into the mill. He's got some leftover fish and stew meat. He gives it to Lena to eat. Now, while Lena's sitting here eating, she tells Ernest, listen, I've got to get back to my kids. Like, they need me. My mom was old. She need help. Like, I can't just sit out here all day with you. I have responsibilities. And Ernest is like, I'm getting real tired of you telling me what you got to do. You talking about these kids, but your mom don't give a damn. We talking about me.

And I say you ain't leaving. He says, quote, damn you. I mean to make you do what I tell you to do or I'll kill you. So now he's like officially put a threat on her life. And what can she do? Tell the cops. She ain't even supposed to be there in the first place. She tell the cops. The cops gonna be looking at her like, what the fuck are you doing in this white man's house? A few hours go by. It's getting late in the evening. She's like, Mr. Ernest, I've got to go. I got to. It's getting late. I haven't been home.

Tomorrow's Monday. It's a work day. And Ernest says, no. At this point, she has wheeled herself up and she's like, I've just got to. She says, you're going to have to kill me then. And she gets up and she starts heading towards the door. Now she has to make it past him to get to the door. And as she's coming that way, he goes and he grabs his gun and he's got his hand in one hand and he's picking up the metal bar and

that he uses to lock the door in the other. And he grabs her, and she's just fighting her best, trying to get him off, trying to wiggle her way out of them. Gun is in his hand. Of course, she's trying to protect herself from the gun. She's trying to push it away from her. Lena's glasses fall off her face into a tin of water, and then all of a sudden, you hear a pop.

And he stumbles to the ground, and Lena don't know who pulled the trigger, him or her. She don't know. It was just a big old commotion going on. But what she did know was that Mr. Ernest was now dead.

She pushes past him and she leaves. The bullet went behind his ear and through his head, so it killed him instantly. And Lena, she just runs home to tell her mom what happened. She's like, "Mama, mama, I don't know what I'm gonna do." And she's like, "Baby, what happened?" And she's like, "Mr. Ernest is dead." And she's like, "Dead? Dead how?" And she was like, "He got shot. Shot by who?" And Lena's like, "I don't know. Me, him, the both of us?

I don't know, but he's dead. Now, her mom was like, now what's going to be real hard to get past is killing a white man. So we need to make sure he's dead. She was like, Lena, you go up there, you check on him and you make for certain. Because if he is, then we're going to have to think for real about what we're about to do next.

So Lena goes back there, and Mr. Ernest is very dead. Lena and her mama come up with a plan, and later that night they go to J.A. Cox's house. Now this is the man that her and her mama used to work for. He was the town's coroner, and he was a bailiff. They thought, you know, he's got a good position in the community. He's a good white man who knows us, so maybe he'll be able to help us, you know?

Never the case. Right. That's never the case. They go up there and she knocks on his door. She says, Mr. Cox, can you come outside? He steps outside and he's like, what is it? She's like, sir, I know it's late. He sees her in the street. She's crying. She's shaking. She's clearly drunk. You can smell it on her. And she's just like, Mr. Cox, I think I done killed Eugene Knight. And...

He's like, what do you mean you killed him? So she tells him exactly what happened. Mr. Cox is like, all right, Lena, who had the gun? Lena says, I don't know. He says, who pulled the trigger? Lena says, I don't know. So Jay Cox is like, it ain't really nothing I can do for you. You go on down to the sheriff's station. I'm about to go down to Mr. Knight's house, see what's going on with Ernest. I'm going to go check out the scene.

That sounds like a death trap. So she doesn't go to the sheriff's station. Instead, she goes home. J.A. must have told the police what had happened and told them to expect Lena because they pull right on up to her house later that night to pick her up. But she doesn't put up a fight. She's cooperative. And the sheriff takes her in. So the sheriff's gone. The deputy's there. So the deputy puts Lena in a cell and he's like, you go ahead and sleep off this hangover. And, you know, I mean, it's just not fair.

Eugene, Ernest's son, was notified that night.

about everything happening and of course he was pissed he was pissed and he was ready to make sure that she got the utmost punishment for killing his dad at no point in time did he think in his mind that it could have possibly been his sweet drunk old father that it could have started any of this those two days they give Lena to sleep it off now Lena was like I remember almost everything like I was drunk but I wasn't too drunk and that day that he locked me in

basically sobered me up because there was no liquor in the house. He gave me a couple of drinks when he arrived before this happened, but she wasn't as drunk as she usually was. The sheriff comes in and he's like, hey, Lena, I got something for you. She's like, what? And he's like, found your glasses at the mill. Now, her glasses were found in this tin that had water in it. And her glasses, when she received them, they were bent. And Lena tried to bend them back into shape. And if y'all are glasses wearer, you know what happens when your glasses are not

adjust it correctly, they just gonna fall off your face. And that's basically what she had to deal with from then on out. And the sheriff's like, Lena, can you tell me what happened? And she tells him everything that happened, that they were fussing over the gun, that he said that he was gonna kill her if she left, she said that she had to go, and then he hooked up an iron like he was about to hit her with it, and they were fighting, and it was so much commotion, the gun went off, and she doesn't know who had the gun.

but she knows that she was scared for her life. The deputy comes in and is like, "All right, Lena, where's the gun? Where's the pistol?" And she's like, "It's at my house. It's at my mama's house." He's like, "Okay." Goes, searches, doesn't find the pistol. Comes back, "Lena, where is the pistol? Where is the murder weapon?" And she says, "I told you that's where I put it. It's at my house where I told you it was under the mattress."

He goes back, but this time, when the deputy goes back, he's like, hey, Eugene, you want to go search for your dad's murder weapon at the murderess's house? And Eugene's like, hell yeah, I do. And so Eugene, along with the deputy, found the murder weapon in the springs of the mattress of Queenie's bed. Sounds about right. She was arrested, and she was charged with capital murder. Now...

Here's a very interesting thing that was happening. It was a local election year. And you got to think about it. Most of the people that are involved, the sheriff, the coroner, Mr. Cox, like judges, these are all elected positions. And so news of a black woman killing a white man being on trial where she is out here screaming self-defense. No, no, no.

This little town needed to keep it as hush, hush as possible. Remember, like, Black media was starting to really pick up. Educated Black people were starting to pop up everywhere.

There was the NAACP. They were like, please do not let this little town news become NAACP national news because we've already decided we do not like them. There was a newspaper that had just started getting real fire under it called the Atlanta Daily World in Atlanta.

The Atlanta Daily World is the first African-American daily newspaper. And they were like, if those Negroes find out in Atlanta what we have going on in this really country town, it will become national news. The elections will be over. We will have a horrible year, which makes you all think this is an election year. How are your politicians lying to you just to get your vote? Mm hmm. Food for thought. Food for thought. Y'all can think about that amongst yourselves.

Which, you know, I was reading and doing research about this part and I was, there is a little bit of a sense of pride that comes there. Like y'all white folks had to work so hard and had to lie so much and had to cover up so much because you knew that you were dealing with somebody. Yes, she could read and write, but she was still technically in the lower level of society. Right? Right.

If you get somebody that has any type of pool to even look at this case, which they should have because of how this case went down in history, it really would have been national news. Now, Lena could not afford an attorney of her own, so she was assigned Leon Ferguson.

Ernest's family, they hired John Franklin Terry to help the prosecutor, Joe M. Ray, as they got ready to... The papers start printing this story and they are referring to Lena as Ernest's slave woman, which, again, goes to show you the time because how...

Is slavery illegal? Yeah, you can write in this article, slave woman, and it doesn't raise a brow. It don't make nobody feel no type of way. It's just whatever. Right. So it's August 14, 1944. It's the day of Lena's trial. So they go to the courtroom. Two Bibles are brought out, one for the black folk, one for the white folk. The jury is set up. Now, back then, they had the same jury for the whole day. And there were a few trials before her trial.

Somebody selling whiskey, somebody hog stealing, a little salt and battery, a little larceny. And then up comes Lena. The jury is composed of 12 of Ernest's peers. Lena was not given her right to have a jury of her peers. Instead, 12 white men who sat there, who went to the same church as Ernest, who socialized with Ernest, whose family integrated with Ernest, sat there to judge her for the crimes that she was facing this day.

Now, a lot of these people also know Lena because Lena has worked for them. Lena's done their laundry. Lena's helped take care of their family or something at some point. Some were even customers of her back when she was at the lewd house, you know? So it's very, it's a lot of bias in this jury. They're definitely familiar with both parties and they're fucking white. So what chance does she stand? And some of these are like, these are like,

Well, to do white men like some of them are charter members of the Georgia Lions Club. Some of them. One of them is a charter member of I don't remember the name of it. I didn't write it down, but it's one. It's now one of the biggest veteran or nonprofit organizations. He's one of the charter members of that. Like, yeah, they're all farmers in some way, shape, form or fashion.

Except for like maybe two. And they all drink together, for sure. So the judge is Judge William Two-Gun Warrell. They call him Two-Guns because he kept two guns on his hips. The trial lasted about four hours. He came from out west. He had a law degree from Mercer. And he was known for putting the law down.

When everything's got a little rowdy in the courthouse, he was quick to let them know the charge cost in every taxpayer in this room, $1 a minute. I'd like to get paid $1 a minute. Shit. With inflation, $1 from that time today is $17.80 something cents. Yeah, I'll do $17 a minute. But also, like, he goes down in history as one of Georgia's, like, best judges or whatever. His picture is still on display. There's heavy air quotes about him.

To this day. There's heavy air quotes about everything I'm saying. But that language is the language that we hear of people today that you're wasting taxpayer money because we want to go through the justice system as we should have a right to because we are citizens of these United States. So they spent a good bit of time questioning the gun. Was it a pistol? Was it a rifle? Was it this pistol? Are we sure that we're sure that we're sure that it was this pistol? Yeah.

Who fired the gun? Well, how do we know? You know, are we definitely positive? Do we care if we're positive? Lena had already told them, yes, that's the gun that was used. But of course, they're still going over and over it because we got to be sure that we're sure that we're sure.

So Terry, who was working with the prosecution, he usually acts as a defense attorney, but he decided to switch teams today. And he just continues to gesture at how Ernest was shot in the head, you know, like a trajectory type of manner, like a, mm, very demonstrative, right? And then next came the sheriff, who told about the arrest of Lena. And, you know, he talked about what was done or said before he actually saw the body. And they asked...

When did you speak to Lena? Tell us from your perspective what happened. And he was talking about how by the time he got there, the Milhouse was swarmed with people and tries to go to Lena's house and look at what's over there. And there's a crowd of people around Queenie House. People are angry, making a little riot and stuff. And then he talks about what he and Lena spoke about in the jail two days later.

which was Lena sticking to her story and explaining what happened. So they asked the sheriff, were there any signs of a struggle? And he says, no. And they said, and you know, Lena keeps saying that he lifted that metal bar at her and threatened her with that bar. You seen a metal bar there? And the sheriff says, no, no, I didn't. They had to go and return Lena's glasses to her. Lena couldn't see.

People who wear, you're not trying to walk around without your glasses. You're just going to leave them there. Like that was evidence to the struggle and the stress that she was in when she left the house. And it didn't matter to anybody there because it didn't fit with their story.

So much so that it never came up in court at all. So Eugene gets up there and he testifies to seeing Lena with his dad. And that's when he said the quote, I took her and I beat her until I just did leave life in her. On the stand, in the courtroom and saying, I beat her damn near to death because I wanted her to stay away from my daddy. But she kept coming back and nobody was concerned. Probably got a few attaboys. Yeah, that'll teach you to mess with us white folks.

I'm sure like no one flinched by hearing, yeah, I beat her. No one flinches. No one cares. So then they say, well, Eugene, were you there while your dad's body was still there? And he says, yeah. And they said, did you see a metal bar? He says, nope. Did you see a sign of a struggle? And he leans back in his chair and he says, absolutely not.

You know, the Lena Baker story, the book, it is a lot of different interviews from people that were alive during that time. And the author, she interviewed somebody who has a pseudonym in there. So it's no point in me telling you the fake name. And at the time, he was 10 years old. And he was like, I remember going to that meal because my dad and him were cool. He was like, and I kept remembering hearing talk around town about a metal bar. He ain't got a metal bar. He was like, but in my 10-year-old head.

I remember going to that man's house and there being a metal bar that he would lock the door from the inside with. And of course, he's 10, right? Like the adults are saying it, but he was never on trial or anything. This was years later. But this old man was like, I just never forgot that they always talked about there not being a metal bar, but me being in that man's house. And I've seen a metal bar in that man's house before. I guess it's easy when everybody's in cahoots to...

make it seem like how they want it to seem, right? So Lena then takes the stand and her story stays the same. She says that she was afraid to go to the mill, that she constantly was trying to refuse going there. She talks about how she went out drinking and trying to dodge him, but he ended up seeing her walking home at four o'clock in the morning and locking her in the mill. She talks about how it wasn't the first time that he had locked her into the mill.

She says that when he came back with some food after being gone the entire day, and she said that she wanted to leave so that she could be ready for work the next morning, he said...

damn you. I mean, to make you do what I tell you or I kill you. And she said that, you know, after a while, gumption came up with her and she was like, you're going to have to kill me. Then she tried to leave. And that's when the tussle began. And then she says there was a metal bar. He was trying to hit me with it. I got hold of the gun and then he was fighting me for we were tussling over the gun and then it just went off like it wasn't even a loud pop, but it went off and he fell. And the judge even was trying to be like, are you sure that the

metal bar existed like they were trying to make a fool out of her they were trying to make her look like this metal bar was just a figment of her imagination or a lie or a lie yeah

And everybody was wondering who held the gun. I think that in the heat of it, it really is hard to tell who had the gun. She said that she kept telling him that she wanted to get out. He kept saying that he would kill me before I got out of there. We fought. He threw his pistol on me. We got to Tuslin and I got the pistol away from him. They said, who pulled the trigger? She says, I don't know. I don't know. It just went off. But I know that I was scared and I was trying to leave.

With all this questioning and all of the people and how well this was known around town, you'd think that her lawyer would call more witnesses to the stand, but he doesn't. Queenie is not put on the stand. Neighbors, friends, they're not put on the stand. The only person that he cross-examines on the stand is Eugene, Ernest's ain't-shit son. That's my great-grandpappy you're talking about.

Right. They're trying to make it seem like Ernest was running away from Lena after Lena, who who's like five foot four, 135 pounds soaking wet that she overpowered him so much so that he ran away. Lena's trial didn't even last a full day. It lasted a little over four hours and the jury went out to deliberate for half an hour and they came back with a guilty verdict.

So Judge Worrell sentenced Selena to death by manner of electric chair. Her lawyer, Leon Ferguson, asked for a new trial immediately because, quote, the verdict was contrary to the evidence and without the evidence to support it, then the principles and justice of equality... Now, she continues to fight, but she was set to die October 13th, 1944. Do y'all know that was a Friday, October the 13th as well? Mm, yeah.

I did not know that. Yeah, it turns out he had not gotten paid at all from the first trial. So he wasn't finna, I guess, put his time and effort into a second. Not for no Negro woman he wasn't.

So on August 19th, 1944, this is five days after her trial, a man named Edward B. Everett, he served on the board of paroles. He writes a letter to Lena advising her to appeal and he gave her advice on what she should do to proceed with the trial and all that stuff. But the letter never reaches Lena. It was sent to the state prison instead of the county jail where she was being held at the time. So she never got the advice that was intended for her.

She didn't have books to read. She didn't have a lawyer advising her on what to do. She never got a new lawyer. And so the new trial that she was asked for was dismissed. And they noted that the jailed, this is what it said in a newspaper article. It said the jailed penniless woman has failed to acquire a new attorney and makes no effort to attempt to prosecute her appeal.

On Monday, October 9, she filed for a commutation of her sentence to life in prison with the State Board of Pardons and Paroles. But they weren't able to hear her before Friday, so they tossed it to the governor.

to see if he could commute her sentence. So the governor, he's like, I'll give you 60 days, Governor Ellis Arnold, but I can't pardon you because he made this rule that because the governor before him had abused his pardoning powers, I guess he pardoned too many people, that he put restrictions on how or how many, what the process was for a governor to pardon prisoners.

He was he was trying to do prison reform works. And so this is why he put these things in place. Don't know who he was reforming it towards or for, who was supposed to serve. But that's a different story. But he was like, I can't do anything for your case. I can give you 60 days and then you can go before the parole board. On January 6th of 1945, the order was put in place for her to be transferred from the jail to the state prison.

So on January 18th of 1945, the Board of Pardons and Parole meet, along with 95 residents of Cuthbert County, county officials. They're all over there and they're urging that they do not grant clemency to Lena Baker. And so they, of course, denied her clemency and moved forward with the arrangements to transfer her to the state prison. Her execution was rescheduled and it was now set for March 5th of 1945.

On February 23rd, 1945, she was put in a car and sent to Rhymesville State Prison, where this state prison had the reputation of being the worst prison in the United States. A not-so-fun fact, in September of 1944, the September prior to her being there, two men from the federal government came, and they were basically analyzing all the prisons, and they were sending reports to the governor there.

They reported to this governor whose whole thing was supposed to be about prison reform. They said that the Georgia prison system was, quote, the worst they encountered and recommended sweeping reform measurements.

They said that it was the worst case that they have seen of prisoners complaining about brutality, basically them getting lashings, them getting beaten by the COs. They were carrying around these extremely heavy and why are they so big iron logs on their legs. And 16 men in that prison had their Achilles heels cut in order to keep them from escaping.

That's some crazy shit right there. That is one thing I'm afraid to, Pop. You know? And there's a book. A white man wrote it. It's called...

I escaped the Georgia chain gang and it's a memoir about how bad it was for him as a white man. So imagine how much bad it is for your black ass. And imagine more how horrible it is for Lena who is coming in. She's being housed with all of the men. There's no separation at all. She has to carry around the same iron on her legs. She has to sleep, eat, shower, work alongside the men, which like I'm,

I my mind starts spiraling about the abuse that she endured while she was at that prison. Not just from the CEOs, but the other men that were there, the people that were coming in and out of the prison. I mean, it's what horror stories are made of, really. Now, efforts to what some what they would call at this time reform that prison because the governor was just so shocked that he had so much work on his hands that.

Um, efforts to reform, start reforming, I guess, that prison began towards the end of Lena's story. A few days before her execution, she was actually then moved away from general population, being the only woman there, and into solitary confinement where she was just a few feet from the execution chamber. Um, the warden, he was, uh...

I don't know if excited was the word, but he definitely was antsy. This old Sparky is the actual name that they call the electric chair in Georgia. They had been using it for quite a while now, but this would have been the first time that a woman was going to die in the electric chair since it was installed in the state of Georgia in 1924. Then she actually goes down in history as the only woman in the state of Georgia executed by electric chair.

Now, here's something very interesting that happened.

Now, the judge, he gave Lena the right to be executed in private, which this could have gone either way. And I really think that the only reason that he did this for her was because of the fact that everybody wanted to keep this hush hush under wraps because of the fact they didn't want anybody to find out, anybody to protest, anybody to be there so that their town could still seem squeaky clean from the outside.

But this one little, I dare say selfishness on the judge's part, really came in to kick some people in the ass at the end. Because of this right that he gave Lena, she had to sign off on everybody that was in her execution chamber. So Eugene, Ernest's son, he decided he wanted to take this long trip up the state to see her die in Old Sparky. And I also want to let you know that you guys can see Old Sparky. He's in a museum in Georgia.

fully available for you to see anytime you'd like. But in order for him to see it, they sat down a piece of paper in front of Lena. Now remember, Lena can read and write, baby. The piece of paper looked at it and it said, basically like sign the paper and I give permission for Eugene Knight to witness her execution. She looks at the piece of paper, she picks up a pen and she signs the paper saying positively no. No.

Because fuck you mean, you going to see my execution? No. Now, of course, Eugene tried to talk to the warden, you know, this woman that killed my dad, I want to make sure that I get to see her. And the warden was like, listen, it's the law. There's nothing I can do. You made the trip up here, but you are not going to be able to witness her final moments. You're sicko. They love that shit. White people love that shit. They love to see you suffer. Okay? Okay.

They love that shit. I was in that Lena Baker book. They were talking about another guy that that shot the sheriff before the sheriff we have now, which was his brother. And they took him and they hitched him to the back of the truck and they started dragging him. Very sounds very familiar to something that you heard happening in Georgia in the past couple of years. Yeah, they did that shit for funsies.

Sorry, off subject. On March 5th, 1945, Lena walked into the death chamber. She sat in Old Sparky and she calmly said her final words. She said, quote, "'What I done, I did in self-defense, or I would have been killed myself. Where I was, I could not overcome it. God has forgiven me. I have nothing against anyone. I picked cotton for Mr. Pritchett, and he has been good to me. I am ready to go.'"

I am one in the number. I am ready to meet my God. I have a very strong conscience. After six minutes and what was reported as several shocks, Lena Baker's skin changed color and she finally was pronounced dead at 1126 a.m. Her body was then transported back to her home, to her mother, where she was buried in an unmarked grave.

And the reason, like, her, she was buried in an unmarked grave is because the people who knew Lena, the black folk, they were scared to bury her. They were scared to have a service, yeah. They was just like, I read one article, and this woman said that she was in second grade with James, who is one of Lena's sons. And she said she just remembers James.

that they tossed a little hat around and collected some money. They gathered like 50 cents or something and was like, she was like, nobody was allowed to speak about it no more. She was like, it was something that the adults would get quiet about when kids came around. In 1992, a man named Cole Vodeka founded the Prison and Jail Project. This was about 50 miles southeast of Columbus, Georgia. They were focused on helping and kind of reforming jails in southwest Georgia.

and the social control of the jail system and all of that. Cole considered himself a watchdog of the community, the prison community. So in 1997, he is interviewed in this article saying,

And he's basically talking about the injustices seen between white people who go through the system and black people who go through the system. And he says, quote, I know we white folk break the law, but I'm convinced that if the police arrested whites the way they arrest blacks, there will be a public health crisis instead of a criminal justice problem. If there were 20 whites in Randolph County Jail and 60 in Dooley County and 150 in Sumter County,

we'd find that these jails were emptied a whole lot quicker. In the counties that are 50-50 or are majority white, 90 to 95% of the prison and jail population are Black and Hispanic. In this particular article, he goes on to speak about how he visited the courthouse that Lena was tried in, the exact same courthouse. And he's like, it ain't really changed. The judge who tried her, his picture's still hanging on the wall. They done closed the Black-only section and they put in a little air conditioner.

Took down the ceiling fans. He said, but other than that, exactly the same. And he sits in this courtroom for four hours and just watches some proceedings go by.

And he says most of the people who were up were young black men, few black women. He says they were paraded before a judge, pleading guilty and receiving jail or prison time, pleading guilty, receiving jail or sentence time, to just go on and have to do a probationary period after they got out of jail. He says, quote, on the day of my visit, there were at least 50 folks sitting in the gallery and another dozen jail inmates waiting for their hearings.

I was one of but three or four whites in the courtroom who were not law enforcement or agents of the court. Everybody else, all the courtroom actors, as he called it, the judges, the prosecutors, the clerk, the bailiff, the court reporter, all white.

He said that there was not a defense attorney or a public defender in the building. This is 1997. It was not a defense attorney or a public defender in the building. Nobody in the courthouse was there to advocate on behalf of the defendants.

He said, quote, one by one, a district attorney would call a defendant forward from the gallery. The D.A. would then privately read the charges to the defendant, usually a young black male. He said, I could overhear some of the discussions, which essentially consisted of the D.A. encouraging the defendant to plead guilty to one or more of the charges lodged against him.

In all but one or two instances, the defendants were absolutely no one other than a prosecutor there to counsel them, agreed to plead guilty. One man asked for an attorney, but that was after he entered his guilty plea. And then he goes on to talk about how this is all capitalism at its finest. He says in Sumter County,

There is a brand new 230 bed jail. You know how much that jail costs? Six million dollars. He said taxpayers are paying 1.5 million dollars a year so that this jail can operate. And this jail has now become one of the largest employers in Sumter County. Now because it costs so much to build and it's so expensive to operate, the jail must stay filled to capacity to make it worthwhile.

It's got to be cost effective. They said he said the jail opened in March and less than eight months later, it was bursting at the seams. And he kind of just went on to say it's not quite as blatant as what happened to Lena Baker, but it's still happening. It's just a little less overtly racist.

And I think it is it's so similar to what was happening because in 44, there are three main players in the prison system and all of them were known to take bribes. All of them were known to do backhanded deals, anything to keep money in their pockets. And one of the main ways to keep that money in their pocket was keeping the jails full.

Now, it wasn't until 1998 when Lena's childhood church congregation got together and raised $250 for a slab and a marker for her grave. And she was finally given a proper burial at Mount Vernon Baptist Church. Now,

Now, beginning in the early 2000s, Lena's family started petitioning to have her pardoned by the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles, citing that the original verdict was racist, which, I mean, sounds about right to me. And Cole Vodeka, he's right there with the family pushing for this to happen. June of 2003, Lena Baker's great nephew, Roosevelt Curry, he's 59 at the time, and he says, quote, "'We're not looking to start no trouble. We're looking for answers.'"

Now, this man, he grew up in Colbert and lives about 80 miles south to Atalapagos. This man grew up in Colbert. He know what the culture is back there. And he was just saying, my children need to know their roots.

And so Cole, he's in the papers trying to get this, trying to help them push. And there's this ADA, Ferguson at this time. And he's not trying to hear about it. Like Cole is pushing for all this change. And there are definitely some white people who are like, you're stirring up things that don't need to be stirred up.

So this 88, he gives a quote to the paper saying that Cole was opportunist and he was just trying to boost his publicity so that he could get more money for his organization. He says the idea that the ghost of Lena Baker haunts the legal system in Club Vert to say that the system today is the same system that sent Lena Baker to the chair is ridiculous. But it's not.

It's so closely related and we see it so closely, even in that was this is 2003. We're in 2024. And we even thinking that even thinking that me going to a courtroom to defend myself, which is my right as an American citizen, is wasting the taxpayers dollars. Just like that person, just like that judge said in 1944.

Every little intricate detail of this case is reflected to many cases seen today. And, like, just to say, like, it's not the same system. Do you know how hard it is for a black person to sit there? Especially, let's talk about coming from a black woman's perspective. Sitting on trial, they get over-aged, over-sexualized, like...

None of their pain that they suffered mattered because they're supposed to be tough women. Even their appearance is torn apart. Like, you know, people are really sitting there. How should I wear my hair to look good enough for a judge? Like, you know, do I look too black? Do I look too rough and tough? What are they going to think just by looking at me? Because it's so ingrained. It's a bias that people don't even recognize that they have.

The ADA goes on to say, "Do defendants sometimes plead guilty without an attorney? Yes, but they have the right to do that." He says, "The prosecutors and the judge let the defendant know that they're entitled to representation.

But you saying it and me feeling it are two different things. I think it would be better if you urged them to talk to a defense counsel so that you could feel like somebody's on your side. And once you talk to your lawyer and y'all decide on a decision, if you still want to plead guilty, come talk to me. We'll figure something out. That sounds a little more like justice as opposed. I mean, you could go talk to him or you can go and take this. I don't know what your chances are. Like, are you you're saying he has it, but are you scaring them off from it? Like to just say, but that's their right or we're allowed to do that.

Police are allowed to do a lot of things. ADAs are allowed to do a lot of things that we are not allowed to do. Right. It's a sketch, okay? There was even a retired Supreme Court justice, a Georgia Supreme Court justice, Jesse Bowes. He's 83 at the time, and he gives a quote saying, to relook at Lena's case, it doesn't lift the community up at all. It doesn't remedy anything.

He says that there's a good relationship in this county, and he's talking about between the races, between the whites and the black, and he just shakes his head at the whole thing. But again, there's the perceived, there's good from the white perspective, and there's good for a black perspective, right? Like, I'm as good as you need me to be. That also was an area that had

educated Black people, like schools were schools that were teaching educated Black students were there. People were moving to that town for that. But that also means that just because there are maybe some people that are educated there, there's still a divide because you may see this person one way, but those locals, you see them a different way. Mm hmm.

People that aren't going to those schools, you see them a different way, whether they can read or not. Even the sheriff that arrested her, they were like, oh, he did such a good job balancing the county because he was respected by the Black people because he was fair. Doesn't sound like he was fair to me. That's why I didn't say it in the story, because it sounds like bullshit to me. On August 16th, 2005, 60 years after her execution,

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RocketMoney.com slash sisters. Lena was pardoned by the state of Georgia and then given the charge of manslaughter, which means that she would have been out of prison.

Also, you could have just pardoned her and left it at that because the whole self-defense thing. But, you know. Right. It's the state of Georgia. Her grandnephew, Roosevelt Curry, who led the cause in getting her name cleared, said now he and his family, they can all cry tears of joy.

She had nothing and no one stood by her. It's late, but it's on time. The case was passed to me. I can pass this case on to my family. Her great-great-nephew said this ordeal should not be forgotten. We need to remember where she came from so we don't end up back there. This lets people know the history of what went on here from 1944 until right now. When the tombstone was placed at her gravesite, it was...

Also kind of a symbol of hope, like a symbol of hope that the wounds that were put on this family could now start to really heal. Cole from the jail project said, quote, it's gratifying to see that this blatant instance of injustice has finally been recognized for what it was, a legal lynching.

Since her pardon, her descendants have begun to celebrate her life regularly. Around Mother's Day each year, they celebrate Lena Baker. An honorary headstone was dedicated to her in 2011, and it now sits at the Mount Vernon Baptist Church Cemetery in Randolph County, Georgia. When the parole board that granted her the pardon and gave her manslaughter said,

spoke, the vice chairman, Garland Hunt, said that we just felt that this situation, it was unique. We felt that it was a good thing that we had to do for the family. Now, we're not saying that she's innocent. As a matter of fact, the board does not find Lena Baker innocent of this crime, which is why we did manslaughter, voluntary manslaughter. But we ain't doing you any more favors. It's 2005. Give it up. Right. Right.

Lena's life story, like I said, there's a book called The Lena Baker Story. There's also a movie where Tashina Arnold plays Lena. And baby, she acted her ass off. Did you like her acting? You didn't like the movie.

I didn't like the movie. You didn't like the script of the movie. I didn't like the script of the movie. I feel like they didn't, like, necessarily capture the helplessness that Lena had, right? And so in the movie, repeatedly, she's just like, it's okay, Mama, let me just go talk to him and it'll be fine. And she says this a good five times. And it's like, at this point, you know it's not going to be fine, right? And, like, I feel like I would have just rather, like,

a breaking point, like, where her mama be like, "Don't go." "What do you want me to do, ma?" 'Cause if I don't go, what? For him to beat my ass? For him to arrest me? Like, what do you want me to do? Like, I would've rather them really show, like, what choice does she really have as a black woman going and disobeying a white man in this time period. But the whole, "Oh, I just talked to him. I just talked to him. It'll be okay."

You don't believe it'll be okay. We were talking about it, and Taz was like, it's just a monologue short. If it just had one good monologue, so I can't say it. But that's the script. The acting was actually very good in that movie. Yeah. Other members of her family, Darlene Curry Sawyer, which is a great, great niece of Lena Baker, said, in a way, I was happy that her story was being told. And then I was kind of...

I don't want to say a shame, but what is the right word? Which is an interesting place to be in. If that was like your first feeling and it's like, wait, it's not that, but like it feels wrong in a sense. And I guess it's just like maybe the shame that white people make us feel about ourselves or like, like, I don't know. I think it was because Lena was so, her story is so sexual. Very sexualized. She was,

She was sexualized and black women are made to feel ashamed of their bodies. They're made to be ashamed of being fast. At one point, Lena was fast. She was hosting a ho house. You know what I'm saying? But even to this day, whatever you did in your late teens, early 20s, you're still being judged by that in your 30s and your 40s. And black women specifically have a hard time

Being a everybody's like you should reinvent yourself. You're able to be whoever you want to be, but not really. Not when there's a stigma behind you. Not when you're in a small town. Not when people feel that they have control and a right over your body. And I think it's hard to be like just because it's how people look at sex workers today.

She was a sex worker at some point, so that means that she must have wanted it. No, that doesn't mean that. Right. That means that she no longer is entitled to consent. Right. Or the fact that, like, everybody knew that Lena had a habit with the bottle just as bad as Ernest. Does that mean that she's not entitled to being represented fairly? Does that mean that she's no longer a person that needs somebody to stand up for her? So it's hard. And also there's this, like...

A lot of people like families can't trace their lineage that far back. You know, you can trace your lineage back to slavery and where your family is from and where they lived and where their headstones are because it was a part of the Georgia penal system, which is sucky in itself. I would say that I found this story as an interesting parallel to Ruby McCollum, um,

Lena's family did everything they could to make her story known and write her sentence whereas Ruby McCollum's family was like we ain't gonna talk about it like even people the family members still don't know what really happened and it's unspoken so I think it's very interesting in the different approaches and the fear that was put into them like for Ruby the fact that her family still won't talk about it and for Lena you know they're just brave for being willing to talk about it I

I think it is very similar in other ways, too. Like both women, the small towns say, oh, it started off being consensual. But in both women's, there is no way that there could have been a level of consent because he got Ruby hooked on what pain pills. I think it was in earnest is supplying Lena's liquor. So they've got them hooked in. Oh, the way for you to.

Be happy to get what you need is from me. Oh, but I need this from you as well, child. And then, you know, Ruby ended up having that light-skinned baby. I guess there was hush for at least one generation after this happened. And I'm sure it's because fear. Like, you start talking and the Klan's going to tell you to shut the fuck up. I definitely get that for that time period. But, like...

When we finished the Ruby McCollum story, we definitely had people saying, this is my great-great-grandmother, my great-great-aunt, and my family still to this day don't talk about it. Like, you still can't get them to say anything about it. Wow, it's hurt. Lena's family is doing everything they can to push the story out there, get the movie told, get everything told. Like, I definitely think Ruby McCollum should have a movie. But even Lena Baker's

what, great-great-granddaughter. Chameleon is her great-great-granddaughter, the girl who played me on Rap Shit. And first day of Black History Month, she's like, my first order of Black History is talk about my great-great-grandmother, Lena Baker, and putting her out there. Like, they definitely pushed her story out while it still seemed like, for the McCollum family, that's still something they want. We saw the interview, and that guy, the son, Sam, got on it. He ain't say, I'm not talking about that.

And there might still be a fear because even the white people, they were like, oh, change my name when you write this book. Even though I was 10 years old when that happened, I remember it clearly. All right. That is the story of Lena Baker. All right, y'all. It's time for... I'm not black. I'm OG. I didn't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have got away with it. I can do it, but if I did...

I would have said, oh my gosh, Mr. Cox, I went down to the mill and he is dead. Dead, I tell you. Ain't no way you would have heard me confessing. You know what I mean? Because even when she ran home first time, mama, I killed him. Girls, no you didn't. Shut the fuck up now. No, you didn't. I went over there and that man was dead.

Shit, I'd have let him been found in that place by himself. He's... I don't even know he's dead. I ain't find the body. Mama, I was here the whole time. And I ain't do it, but if I did, you asking me over and over, I don't understand. Who pulled the trigger? I don't know. He did. Even if I was there, he pulled it. But matter of fact, I wasn't there. I ain't do it, but if I did...

It's so hard because the trial was just so shitty. Like the fact that everybody said that that place wasn't a mess. The fact that everybody said that there was no metal bar. The fact that everybody basically was in cahoots to suppress evidence.

I ain't do it, but if I did, I would have hit the gun somewhere else other than at my mama's house. Heavy. I think I might have tried to run. I think I might have tried to send myself to jail. Go ahead. Take me about this place. I'm breaking the rules again. Come get me.

Hell no. So you can go to the chain gang again? Don't nobody want to go there? I know. Like, especially the way it was depicted in the movie, like, it truly broke her. They was like, in the movie, they was like, it's hard on men. So I can just imagine how Alina feeling. Yeah. I was in, they weren't separating men and women, especially black women. All right. That is the end of the show.

That was a great Black History Month episode. I think that was the perfect tie-in of a murderess, of course, to stay on theme for the show. But talk about the justice system and all the flaws that it has then and has now. Nothing has really changed, honestly, at all. So, parole or no parole? Parole her. Free her. All of that, yes. I agree. Okay.

Parole her, free her, all of that. All right. Usually this is the place where we leave some, where we ask people to leave a review. And I am going to still ask you to do that wherever you're listening. If you've made it this far in the episode, go ahead and follow the podcast so that you can get automatic downloads every week of this show coming out on Fridays, right in your podcast app. You can also subscribe.

Give us five stars. Tell us that we're amazing. If you don't like us, just keep your opinions to yourself. How about that? We are having our live show at the Variety Playhouse here in Atlanta, Georgia on March 23rd. And we are so, so, so excited to meet you all in person and tell you an amazing story and have a great time. And we hope that you guys show up.

And because we are in the discussion group, there have been quite a few questions about the show. And so I wanted to just do like a frequently asked questions about the show so that people could be all on the same accord. Tickets are on sale right now. SistersWhoKillLive.com. SistersWhoKillLive.com. That means that there are three L's in there. Don't get confused. So some of the questions, Tazzy, is there an age limit here?

For this show. I ain't gonna tell y'all what to do with y'all kids, but please don't have them disrupting the show. Use your best judgment. Yeah, you know if your kids are mature enough to be there. We're not gonna be, like, smoking weed there in the venue. There will be a bar, but there's no age limit to get in. Tazzy, I wanna meet you. Can I meet you at the show? If you buy a VIP ticket. Really? A VIP ticket? Tell me more. There will be a limited...

Number of VIP tickets for sale to get you priority seating and tickets backstage to see Mariah and I. Give us a little hug, take a little picture, get a little signing. If y'all want that. I'm nobody, but if y'all want that.

Amazing. Hey, Tazzy, I have a disability of some sort, whether I'm in a wheelchair, I need an ASL interpreter. What should I do to make sure that I'm prepared for the Sisters Who Kill show? Email us. Email the Playhouse. Let them know. We've already had somebody reach out about if there was going to be an ASL or BASL translator. And I was told that we can make that happen.

So if any of the rest of you guys have somebody who may need these type of accommodations, let us know so that we can reserve seating for you so that you can be in a space where you can see the translator or be in a space where you can have your wheelchair access. So just let us know so that we can take care of you. Tazzy, you keep talking about a live show. Can I buy merch at the live show? I sure hope so.

All righty. That wraps up the questions for the live show. Make sure that you get some tickets to the live show. SistersWhoKillLive.com. We want to see you. We want to meet you. We want you to have a good time with us while we tell you a really great story that we're super excited about. While you're still on your phones, while you're still listening to this, go ahead and follow us. Follow us at SistersWhoKill.com.

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So go ahead and follow us and see what things Mariah comes up with. Yeah. Tazi finally let me get a YouTube. Restrictions apply. Yay, mom. All right. Anything else, friend? Talk to you soon, talk back. Bye. Bye.