Deep Dive
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Margaret Ann Allen was born on January 23rd, 1966, to her mother, Alvenia Strozer, in Titusville, Florida. Her mother worked as an assembly worker for the former McDonnell Douglas Space Systems plant in Brevard.
Her father, Williams Allen, wasn't really around like that. As a child, Margaret Ann was bounced from house to house to house. Between the ages of five and eight, she actually lived with her grandmother, which was noted to be like one of the highlights of her childhood in a time that she was actually like kind of stable. But granddaddy was a little different. Granddaddy had a short temper. And what he would do is he would line the children up.
Drop your pads. And he would start whooping all of them. And he would whoop every single last one of them kids until they would bleed. Now, when she was with her mother, things weren't much better because for punishment, her mom would hold their heads underwater, I guess like,
almost drowned them as punishment. In her early teens, her brother-in-law, now most sources actually say that this is her brother, but it is her brother-in-law. Her brother-in-law was charged and arrested for sexual battery against Margaret. Margaret, growing up, she had been sexually assaulted by her brother-in-law.
Her grandfather, an uncle, and another man that was undisclosed in all of the sources. So already growing up, she had a pretty rough upbringing.
Her, her family, the community that she was in, I mean, it was really rough. She was constantly in and out of trouble all the time. And when she grew up, growing up, she didn't know her dad, William, that well. I mean, she really wanted that father figure in her life. She would note that a lot as a child. She would say, oh, you know, I really wish I had a daddy, which, I mean, I feel you, girl. But we all did. Right. Have nothing else to say about that. I'm like...
She did attend school in Titusville, but her family was unsure if she graduated. And also there weren't any records stating that she actually graduated from high school. Like we said, growing up in that environment, it was really rough. It was one of those places where it was the hood and everybody was trying to hustle to get everything that they could.
After what would have been her graduation from high school, it's still unclear if she actually did graduate, she got herself a job as a janitor. In 1988, she's about 22 years old and Margaret starts getting into trouble with the law. She basically had damn near like a bingo card of charges. She had beating with injuries.
Possession and use of a firearm, including a short-barreled gun. Attack on a pregnant woman. Missiles thrown in the houses. Sell of cocaine. Temporal evidence. Like, she done done it all. Despite her constant run-ins with the law, she was only convicted of a few drug-related offenses. And in 1989, the following year, she was treated for a drug overdose. So you can see drugs are a reoccurring problem in her life.
In 1991, she was charged with attempted first-degree murder, but she was only found guilty of aggravated battery and battery. Just because I beat you up don't mean I want to kill you. I mean... So, throughout the 90s, you know, she's having rough relationships and abusive relationships, and in the mid-90s, she had boyfriends who would beat her unconscious, leave her in a trunk of cars. Like, that's the end for me. I don't know how much further you guys are going to go, but that's where I draw the line. Um...
In 1995 and 1996, she was hospitalized and treated for facial and head trauma and bite wounds. And at one point, she was beaten so bad that she was put in the hospital while she was pregnant. Now, we weren't able to find who all the baby daddies were or even when her kids were born and stuff like that. But she does have two kids. She had a daughter who was born with a disability and she was able to get
aid constant aid to help care for her daughter due to that disability margaret had this good girlfriend wenda right whom she had known all of her life basically and as adults the two were neighbors and they're getting closer than ever wenda like everybody else in the hood it was always on her hustle and her grind to get a little bit of extra cash listen even if it's not in the hood
So, and you know, Wenda was doing coke as well. All of them were doing coke. Everybody in this story did cocaine, okay? You know I get some blow ass. I may not mention this many times, but just know everybody in this story did a little cocaine.
So, Wendell would come over and clean fish for Margaret and sometimes do her hair or help her cut out a sew-in, something like that. Help with some household chores for a little extra cash. We all know that person, you know. They'll clean your kitchen for you. Do a little this, do a little that on $20 or something. Wendell lived with her common-law husband, Johnny Dublin. And Wendell was doing chores for Margaret.
Throughout the case, Wenda is constantly referred to as Margaret's housekeeper, but it...
It's just because a lot of time she spent over there was cleaning the house for money. Like, but they were friends. They were neighbors. It was, you know, more than just a housekeeper relationship. Right. She lived right around the street. And a lot of people said that Margaret, although she was very easy to get angry, like people knew her temper. They were very well aware of it. That she honestly had a big heart. Like,
James Martin, who is now living at Margaret's house, is her roommate or whatever, and
He also, you know, does the booger sugar and she kind of let him in off the street. She also had this kind of like dude that was around the way. He his last name was also Alan. His name was Quentin. And Quentin, you know, needed help every once in a while. And Quentin would call her auntie. And whenever Quentin need a little help, she would throw him a couple of dollars, make sure that he was straight. She was known to have a big heart, but everybody knew.
Not to cross her wrong. It's February 8th, 2005. Wenda comes over. She's wearing like a black top, some turquoise shorts. And she gets over to the house and she's, you know, cleaning, cleaning a little bit of fish, cleaning up around the house. That's some country shit. Wenda was over at the house for quite a bit that day. She was hustling up. She was trying to get herself clean.
a little bit of extra cash. And oh, I forgot to say this. Margaret also sold cocaine on the low as well to get some extra money as well. So anyways, when Margaret noticed that when Wenda had to go use the restroom, for some reason, Wenda decided to use the restroom in Margaret's in the master bedroom instead of the one in the hall. Didn't think too much of it at first, but it was a little suspicious. It was a little weird. You know what I'm saying? Anyways,
She leaves and she leaves. She goes to her house. Nothing happens. Quentin comes over. Quentin comes over and he's like, hey, auntie, I got that two hundred dollars you let me borrow. So here you go. And she's like, OK, that's fine. Come ride with me because I got to go pick the girls up, the daughters. I got to go pick the girls up.
goes to pick the girls up, comes back to the house. Now the car started acting weird. The truck started acting a little janky. So Margaret asked for James T. A lot of people call him JT. Asked for James T. Martin to go ahead and go outside and look at the truck. And when she got the money and she went to go look for her purse, Margaret was like,
Now, where is my purse? I know I have my purse. And not only that, she knew that she had a whole bunch of cash in her purse because she had some lawyer fees to pay. She had some court things to pay and she had to get some stuff for her daughter. They like 12. These ain't no babies, but she had to get some stuff for her daughter. So like she's like, I know that I have some big wads of money in this purse. And she's like, when to sell my damn purse?
Ain't no way. Wenda stole my goddamn purse. So Margaret is looking for her purse. She's looking for her purse. She's looking for her purse. And Margaret, y'all may be like this. I know that I'm like this. And after going through the story, I feel like I need to get myself together, go to therapy.
But when she was getting more, she was getting so angry each time that she couldn't find anything. Like she was like, I'm searching here. I can't find it. I'm searching here. I can't find it. And more and more and more, she's getting angrier and angrier and angrier. And she's like, this is crazy. Wenda really fucking took my shit. And I know she did because I don't understand why the fuck she decided she wants to use the bathroom in the master bedroom instead of using the bathroom in the hallway like everybody else do, like she's been doing. So she had to have stole my purse. I know that.
know that she fucking stole my shit. So she's like, you know what? Let me calm down. Let me head over to Wendell's house. Now Wendell lives like a block away. They're neighbors, but it's like a block away, right? She goes and she's like, you know, I can't find my purse, girl. Have you seen, have you seen my purse? And Wendell's like, no. And she's like, okay, well, can you help me look for it?
And Wenda's like, okay, I'll help you look for it. No worries. And she's like, and remember Wenda lives with her common law husband. Oh, I do not want anybody to be calling me no common law, anything. Either I'm your husband. I mean, either I'm your wife or I ain't. Okay. What about common law, but they call you wife. And in the event of an emergency, if I have no legal power, then I am your girlfriend, your boo, common law. I, I,
That is not what this podcast is about. Anyways, Wenda tells Johnny, she's like, oh, Johnny, I'm about to go over there. I'll be right back. And Johnny's like, all right, cool. When she got into Margaret's place, she helps her look around and Margaret starts to get angry and angry. Like you starting to piss me off now, right? Because it was me and it was you.
You was in here like, come on. I already got my mind made up. Right. So she's inside of the room. So in the house right now, it's Margaret, Quentin, Wenda and James is outside working on a truck. Everybody is unaware of what happened during the first round in the house. But what they do know is that Margaret had it. But what we know is that Margaret had a gun on her person at this point.
Margaret tells Quentin, don't let this bitch out this motherfucking house. And if she tries to leave, be her motherfucking ass. Straight quote. That's a quote. So Margaret leaves the house and she goes to Wenda's. Margaret tells Johnny that she thinks Wenda stole her purse and the money inside of it and that she needs to come in and look around. And Johnny is like, I don't know about any purse or any money, but yeah, I guess you can look around.
Johnny noticed that Margaret had some scratches on her face and back at the house at Margaret's house, Wendell's like, all right, I'm about to go. Fuck this shit. And Quentin's like, no, you're not. Margaret wants you to stay here until she gets back. She's like, all right. I guess she didn't want no smoke. She sits back down.
Margaret can't find a purse at Wendell's and she's like, look, Johnny, I need my purse and I need my money. You gonna tell me where Wendell put it and I'll give you $200. I ain't got time to keep playing with this shit. I got things to do. So Johnny's like, Margaret, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know anything about a purse. I don't know anything about money.
So Margaret leaves. She's walking out. Johnny says, hey, tell Wenda it's about time she come on home now. Now, when Margaret gets back to her house, she's questioning Wenda. And again, she's getting more and more pissed because I'm sick of the games. Tell me where my shit is and we can all go on about our day. Like you dragging this out for what? At the end of the day, I'm going to get my motherfucking money. So Wenda's just getting at her. Wenda's like, girl,
what do I gain from taking your purse? First of all, you know me better than that. So I don't even know why you coming at me about your purse. Like we supposed to be better than that. Second of all, I know you and I know if somebody fucked you over, they gonna get it 10 times worse. Why would I put myself in that position? Bitch, I know you crazy. I don't need the drama. It ain't worth it. Like she's like, at this point, if you think I took your purse, then let's fucking get it over with.
You want to beat my ass? Go ahead. Shoot me. Let me go to the emergency room, get myself stitched up, and then I can go on home. Because I don't know where your goddamn purse is. So you're just going to have to do what you got to do.
I feel like if somebody's like, you can shoot me about this purse because I don't know where it is, that's probably indications that I really don't know where the fuck that shit is. Because if you got a gun, and if I know you a hot tempered bitch, like I've known you a long time, girl. I've known about your charges. I know you crazy. Why would I do that? Margaret's like, Quentin, come on and put some plastic in my hair. And she says, listen, if Quentin get done with my hair and you don't bring my purse about in, it's going to be some shit.
And Quentin is like, Auntie, Auntie, just stop. You know how you get. You just need to calm down, okay, Auntie? I'm going to get you right, but you, you know, whoosah. So...
You know, sometimes you might move too fast. You look over things. You know, we take a breath. We look with fresh eyes. And Quentin starts to look for the purse. He's looking high. He's looking low. He's praying to God, please let me find this purse so we can all have a phone from this night. He looks in the microwave. Everywhere there's no purse to be found.
Quentin, he goes back to braiding Auntie's hair. And while he's doing it, Wenda is like, she's exasperated. Margaret's sitting in a chair getting her hair braided. And Wenda kind of just drops to her knees in like a pleading stance, just like,
Margaret, please. I don't have your purse. I don't know how many times I gotta tell you. Like, please, you gotta believe me, girl. I do not have your purse. I would not steal from you. And you have to understand this. Streaming October 6th on Paramount+. First place I learned about death was the Pet Sematary. Dead things buried in that land would come back. There's something else. Something's wrong with Timmy. He needs time to adjust.
That's not Timmy. Something's talking through him. Sometimes dead is better. Pet Cemetery. Bloodlines. Rated R. Streaming only on Paramount+. Now, there's also another weird timeline that's going on throughout this story that I could not completely nail down, and that's what Mr. James T. was doing. Okay, so really quick. Like we said, James T. was out there working on the truck. At some point, he came in before the chaos really popped off. He came in and was like,
I'm going to need to go get a belt for the truck, like to fix it. Goes to get the belt for the truck, comes back and he's like, hey, Marguerite, you got some cocaine? And Marguerite's like, nah, I'm fresh out. I got to go re-up or whatever. And he's like, all right, bet. So he leaves. He leaves to go get high. He comes back. Hey, you got some cocaine? Exactly. That is a quote. No, I'm just kidding. That's not a quote.
But he does. He's like, hey, you got some coke? Because she does sell like she one of her little side hustles that she sells coke. So she that's probably why she's mad. She can't re-up without her cash. Court fees, girl, please. So she's like so he leaves. He goes to get high and he's like high as giraffe pussy. And he comes back and he passes out on the couch.
Now, that timeline happened somewhere within all of this. I just it's kind of important. So I needed you guys to know that it happened. OK, keep up. Try to at least. So Quinn finishes the braids and Margaret is like, all right, Wenda, where's the motherfucking purse?
And Wenda is like, I don't have the purse. I don't have the purse. Margaret, I'm not going to fight you. I don't have the purse. She's crying at this point. She knows that Margaret has a hot temper and she is now caught in the crossfire. She turns...
to try to leave out of the house and boom, Margaret hits her in the back of the head. She starts wailing on her, beating her ass. And when does she is like crawling towards the back of the house, right? And Margaret is beating her with everything that she could find. She's calling her all types of liar, all types of
all of that shit. And then she tells Quentin, she tells Quentin, hold that bitch down. Hold that bitch down. And she, he's like trying to hold her down. But you know, when...
Wenda is a big bitch okay Wenda is like 300 pounds okay she's she's a big she's a big lady and Quentin he a little big but he ain't that big and Mark and Margaret she about 160 pounds so still but the thing is Wenda's not fighting back she's like crawling to the back of the house trying to get away but she's not really fighting back you know what I'm saying so
So she's beating her ass. She's beating her ass. And finally, she tells Quentin, hold that bitch down. Quentin's kind of like fumbling with her hands. And then when does hands get loose? And then...
Margaret points the gun at Quentin and said, hold that big bitch down or I'm going to shoot her. So Quentin's like, okay, holds her down as much as possible. Then Margaret goes and gets anything that she can find. She starts getting bleach, pours it down Wenda's throat, gets nail polish remover, pours it down Wenda's throat, gets all these cleaners, anything that she can find, just pouring it all on her. And Wenda's like, please stop, please stop, please stop. I'm going to piss myself. Please, please, please stop.
And this commotion is going on for a minute. Like it's going on for a while. So one of her daughters, I think Quentin called her Titi. So Titi comes in and is like, Ma, what what is happening? And instead of trying to, like, hide the fact that she's beating this woman ass, she's like, hey, go get mommy some duct tape. So Titi, go get some duct tape.
And she's ripping off the tape. She's trying to get the tape on Wenda's mouth, you know, trying to get her to shut up, right? She's ripping the tape. And, you know, the tape, it's a lot of chaos. And you know how duct tape is. Like, you get it stuck to one thing, you get it stuck to another thing. You can't really get it. And then Wenda's face is soaked with all of the— The way I just envisioned that, you talk about duct tape being chaos and stuck. I just see it as fucking shit. Tape.
Tear me a new piece. It is. That's what she was doing. That's exactly what she was doing. She was telling, tear mama another piece, tear mama another piece. And she was trying to get the tape on Wenda, but Wenda's face was too wet. She couldn't get it. And then all the chaos of the duct tape. You're right. You're envisioning correct. That means I'm telling the story good. So finally, Wenda goes and she gets a belt and then she wraps it around Wenda's throat and
She wraps it around Wenda's throat and she pulls the belt and she pulls the belt until Wenda passes out. She's shaking. She's shaking. Then she passes out. And Margaret is like, it's okay. She just passed out. She'll be all right. She gonna come to that bitch faking. She ain't even passed out for real. She just faking. She just faking. She ain't unconscious yet. Yeah.
And so she tells Quentin, all right, come on, it's time for us to tie this bitch up with a belt on her ankle, ties her arm with some rope, wraps her up in the sheet and uses the sheet to kind of like hog tie her almost. And she's like, it's all right, because I need that bitch to be tied up. Because when she wakes up, when she regains consciousness, I bet that bitch gonna tell me where my motherfucking purse at. I bet she won't.
So then after that happens, Margaret is like, that bitch is not dead. She not dead yet. They leave, right? They leave. She makes Quentin get in the car with her. They ride around for a little bit. Misa with another nigga, he pops up at the house. He comes to the house. And when he goes in the house, he's like, hey, who in the back there sleep? And Margaret's like, oh, that's my old boo or whatever. And apparently the reason that he said that somebody was asleep is because he heard snoring, but nobody is really sure.
dun dun dun anyways Quentin is like okay well I need to go and Margaret's like you ain't going no motherfucking where and Quentin is like no for real auntie I gotta go like I gotta go uh I told my friend I was gonna meet the meet up with them after they got off of work so I really need to skedaddle and she was like you better come back he was like I'm gonna come back I'm gonna come back for real and she's like you better motherfucking come back so Quentin
He ends up leaving. Right. And when he leaves, he goes to see he said is his best friend. He says this is his wife. He said this is white friend. That's country niggas is so crazy. He's like, and then I went to go see my white friend, which is his best friend. And so he goes to see her. They're smoking. He tells her what happens. And she's like, friend, you need to tell the police. And Quentin is like, I can't do that.
Margaret Anne. Margaret Anne Allen knows where my mama stay, where my family at. She crazy. She'll come for all my people. She don't even have to threaten me because I already know her and I know how she is. So he goes to stay at his cousin's house. When he stays at his cousin's house, he's like, hey, y'all, I'm about to go to sleep or whatever. If I start screaming or crying in my sleep, wake me up. And they're like, what you talking about? He's like, I just saw a real bad movie tonight.
It was a real scary movie, so I'm serious. If I start crying or screaming, y'all wake me up, okay? And they're like, uh, okay. So the next day, Margaret, you know, she go look in a window, and she's like, oh, this bitch really dead. So she starts, go figure, go crazy.
So she's calling out, Quentin, Quentin. Quentin don't answer. She's like, where the fuck this nigga at? She go over to Wendy's house and she's like, hey, Johnny, you know where Wendy at? And he like, nah, I ain't seen her since yesterday. She said, what? That's crazy. Well, let me know if you hear from her, all right? You know, she probably off at one of them hotels getting high or something. He's like, all right, I'm going to let you know what I hear. Margaret gets into the truck that James just fixed and rides around looking for Quentin.
She sees Quentin at the barbershop and Quentin sees her still with her gun. Margaret tells Quentin to get in the car and he listens. She tells him, we in this thing together. She drives the car to Lowe's and she gets some two by fours to help get Wenda's body into the truck. So once the guys get the body in the truck, she drives the car off. She pulls over near a highway and she tells them niggas start digging. They do. And they dump Wenda's body into the hole.
Johnny flicks his cigarette, but they cover up the hole. And Margaret says, well, that's done. Quentin gets on his way, but James and Margaret start to clean up everything. The house, the truck, everything. They're trying to cover all the evidence. A few days go by and it's February 10th. Quentin's anxiety is getting the best of him and it's getting worse and worse. And on top of that, he just got picked up by the police for an outstanding warrant.
While he was being processed, he tells the police, you know, I got information on that missing woman, that when the right woman. I know about it. Y'all want to talk to me? And they're like, well, sure we do.
When they take him into the interrogation room, he starts off the interrogation. He does a little prayer and they're like, are you doing a prayer? And he's like, yes. And they were like, well, that's a good start. That threw me for a loop. I was like, y'all are so assholes. After he like does his prayer, he starts to try to negotiate this thing.
confession. He's like, anything I'm going to tell you, like, I don't have any reason to be in jail. Where am I going to go after this? I don't want to go to jail. Like I, if I tell y'all this, y'all going to keep me safe, right? And the place that I feel safe is at my grandma's house. And they were like, we can't tell you where you're going to go, but we're going to make sure that wherever you go, you're going to be safe, which is very nice wording, meaning that you're going to go to jail no matter what. So he's sitting in the interrogation room. His leg is
shaking like a motherfucking stripper and he starts telling them everything. I mean, from start to finish. The detectives were very detailed in the way that they asked the questions, of course, because they're trying to make sure, A, that he's not just telling us this because he wants to get out of
what we just picked him up on. And B, this is a brand new missing persons case. And you're telling me that you have all this information. What makes us think that you're not the person that actually committed the crime? After he tells them everything that we told you in this story, they're like, okay, we want to let you know that you're going to jail. We are still arresting you. You're not going to Meemaw's house tonight. However, we are going to...
Like, we definitely need to do that. They do. And Margaret sits there and immediately she says, I'd like a lawyer. And they're like, you'd like a what? I don't want to speak without a lawyer present. They were like, you'd like a lawyer. Like she, they kept, they asked her like four times. And she's like, I like a lawyer, please. The detective was like, it's good to see you again. I said, this bitch been in a lot of motherfucking trouble.
I don't ever want to go into an interrogation room. The detective was like, it's nice to see you again. And you know what's crazy? Because when Quentin was telling the story, he mentioned the name of one guy. It was like Eddie Grayson. And the detective was like, the big one or the little one? He was like, Junior. I was like, damn, y'all know everybody on the street. And then he was like,
And then I went to go see my friend, my cousin. Oh, he was talking about his white friend. And they were like, oh, who is that? And he was like, you remember so-and-so that died? He was like, you remember so-and-so that got murdered? And the judge was like, yeah. And he was like, his sister. That's who I was hanging out with. I said, y'all do. And I guess it just goes to show how much crime is really just surrounding this area at all times.
Yeah. Margaret is arrested. She is given a court-appointed attorney. Then her brother gathers up some money to hire a lawyer so that they can... So the defense tries, of course, to get the death penalty off the table, arguing that it's unconstitutional and, you know, Florida don't give a fuck about no constitution.
They do what they want. It's fucking Florida. But, you know, Florida's with the shits and the death penalty stayed on the table. There was word that there was a new medical examiner and they were going to testify in court, not the medical examiner who actually did Wenda's autopsy. And so his testimony was going to be just him looking at pictures that the original Emmy took and speaking to the report. And they're like, hmm...
Is that it's basically like hearsay, right? Like we want the guy who did the original autopsies. We want him to speak to what he saw, not to what somebody read that he saw. And the court was like, good try, but no, we're going to let him testify. A jury trial started and before the Honorable Judge Maxwell, judge of the 18th Judicial Circuit of Florida,
Now, when the opening statements began, the prosecutors told the jury that they were going with the felony murder approach. You know, of course, meaning if the death happens while a felony is being committed, then you're guilty of felony murder. So they say in their opening statement, remember, premeditation is not an issue in this case. For whatever reason, when the right died while a felony kidnapping was being committed on her, even if it wasn't intended.
So this might have just turned into a kidnapping all of a sudden, but that don't matter at this case. What matters is it was a kidnapping. We're going to tell you it was a kidnapping and she died during said kidnapping and that constitutes felony murder. And the defense is right. And the defense is like, no, no, no. This was not a kidnapping.
It was a lot of things, but a kidnapping it was not because the door was unlocked. She was free to go. And even Quentin testified that...
She tried to leave and he told her, hey, she wants you to stay. And then of her own free will, she sat back down and waited on Margaret to come back to the home. Therefore, it's not a kidnapping. Also, when this medical examiner testified, he said that an unconscious body could feel pain. So this, of course, made the jury be like, oh, so not only was she like painfully dying, but...
When she passed out, she was still continuing to feel that pain, right? Also, they were like, listen, look at the report. The first thing that I want you to see is that the hyoid bone is still intact. What does that tell you, everybody?
You guys are true crime fanatics. I'm sure that you know. When you are being strangled, most of the time, majority of the time, if you're being choked and you die of strangulation, that bone is going to break. It's a U-shaped bone. It's in your throat. It's very, very, very fragile. That's why in Florida, if you strangle somebody, that's like a felony. I know because I almost gave somebody one. Yeah.
I should have just said that she did. Wrong story. Anyways, they also and they were like, OK, so clearly she did not die of this supposed belt strangulation that Quentin is saying. Also, we have Quentin on the stand right now and we're all sitting here listening to the same thing.
His story is changing, but we're going to assume that he's just this credible witness that we're going to believe from beginning to end. One moment he says that he helped hold her down. The next minute he says that he was just standing by the body. What is the actual truth? On top of all of that, look at the toxicology report. Hmm. Look what we found. Cane.
You don't say. What makes you think that my client killed Wendell when she clearly had cocaine in her system? On top of that, she's a big woman. Cocaine, overweight, the stress of being accused of stealing a purse. That's enough to kill somebody without my client putting hands on her at all.
These ligature marks, Quentin is saying that she beat her all this many times, but a lot of these wounds on Wenda's body don't match up with that. Now, defense tried to get some of Margaret Allen's family to actually take the stand. The lawyer tried to get an aunt to testify, but that aunt was actually not well and so decided that they were not going to testify because they were sick. But who did testify in court was Wenda's daughter.
who saw everything from start to finish and said in court that she saw her mother attacking Wenda. She also said that she thought that Wenda was still alive, but she had no idea. And how was she supposed to know? She's 12 at the time of the crime. With everything that the jury had, they went out to deliberate. They go out.
And they come back and they find Wenda guilty of first degree murder and felony murder. Her sentencing took place the very next day. It was only then at the sentencing hearing that we heard more about Margaret's mental health. And a mental health professional, Dr. Wu, questioned Margaret about like impulse control and how she really didn't have much impulse control. And that when...
Margaret was questioned before the hearing, before the trial. She was very she wasn't very cooperative.
In fact, he couldn't even tell that she had anything wrong with her until he spoke to her family and was like, oh, yes, this is PTSD. She clearly isn't communicating with me because she disassociates. She has a lot of disassociating tendencies because of the PTSD. And it's...
It's very likely that because of all of the trauma that she has endured, because her brain, the frontal lobe, the frontal cortex, same with Wanda Jean.
That frontal cortex is messed up and it's messing up with that impulse control. It also makes very heightened, heightened emotions. This could possibly be a reason why Margaret had what we would think an unreasonable response to losing her purse. They decided that they were going to sentence Margaret Ann Allen to death.
She then had a Spencer hearing, which is something that came out of the not so great state of Florida. According to online paralegal degree dot com, essentially these hearings give defendants an opportunity to provide additional evidence to change the penalties imposed by sentencing. The prosecution also participates in this hearing and may also exhibit evidence to support the penalties initially imposed by the jury's decisions.
Due to the things that they argued during the Spencer hearing, they asked for a new trial and were denied. She started her appeal process, and in this she tried to say that Quinton actually stole the purse and tried to blame Wenda, which ended up getting her killed. She tried to say, one, she was not kidnapped, and if every murder is a kidnapping as well, then we'd have a bigger problem on our hands. Wenda was asked not to leave by Quinton,
And Wenda responded, OK, and sat back down. She wasn't forced into the house. She wasn't forced to stay. You know, she was asked to stay and she agreed. She also brings up that experts testified to her brain damage from being beaten throughout multiple different times in her life, which leads her back to impulse control. And so, you know, she's like that should definitely be a factor. And the state was just like, you know, no, she's a threat.
And she may even kill in the prison or kill a guard without an impulse control. And she needs to stay in there. Now, the state is also like, listen, she was clearly knew the actions of the crime. She she went over to Johnny's house pretending like she ain't even know where Wenda was. Is that impulse control or is that bad decision making? Or is that trying to cover up a crime? Clearly, she does not want to conform to what the law says that she needs to conform to.
Despite what all of these experts say, these are choices and she was not making the correct choices. Also, the defense ended up saying, listen, all of the things about her childhood, the PTSD, those came up during the sentencing hearing. They were glazed over during the trial. The jury barely got to hear about it. They also made suggestions in the trial that made it seem like,
it was possible that she had sexual abuse as a child. And then it was like, maybe she was sexually abused as a child. And they did not give her a full chance to say, no, I was abused as a child. And these are all the reasons why. Now, one thing that her original lawyer said was that it was really hard to get in contact with Margaret Ann's family and to really understand her story, which, again,
I just don't know a lot of Black people that are from the hood that almost all of them probably have warrants. They have constant run-ins with the law, are going to be willing to talk to...
Anybody, you know, even if it is a lawyer on somebody's behalf, because like Margaret and her brothers are in prison going down the line. Her kids ended up ended up going in and being in and out of jail for like drug charges, gun charges, shit like that. Like it's so you see the cycle before, during and after, you know what I'm saying? So not a lot of people are even going to want to talk. And I think that people don't take that into consideration. And yeah.
So the only thing that the mental health professional was able to conclude, he was able to include that from the few people that would actually talk to him because he wasn't even, he didn't even have the time resources to sit down and have a full evaluation of Margaret Ann. And the state's mental health expert never examined Margaret Ann and then was admitted like, yeah, that probably would have been helpful. Yeah, I bet it motherfucking would have.
She did not get a new trial. However, she did get a new sentence. The final decision was that Margaret Ann Allen will serve two concurrent life sentences for murder and for kidnapping. Everybody else went to jail, too. James T., he didn't get that long. He was out in a couple years. And Quentin got 15.
And that's the end of our show. All right, y'all. It's time for... I'm not black. I'm OG. I ain't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have got away with it. First of all, I probably would have... If I ain't do it, but if I did, I would have been sober. Because a sober mind...
It's so much better than a coked out mind. I'm telling you, especially when you upset. It's like I want some blobs. Shrooms are different, but I can only compare them. I only can compare shrooms because that's all I know. And because I don't do any other drugs. And I just know I have been angry on shrooms and it has been very irrational where the next day I'm like, wow, that was irrational.
I'm probably going to take that part out. Just be sober. I ain't do it, but if I did, I'm going to count to 10. You know, she's got that temper, and I know what it's like to have a temper. And what you have to do is learn how to manage that temper because you're responsible for that temper. You don't get to go back and just say, well, I was upset. And, you know, people just generally expect more out of somebody, right?
As I've learned, you know, and so just being mad doesn't cut it. You need to calm down and think about a rational way to solve things. Yeah, I didn't do it. But if I did, if there was a discrepancy about Wenda using the wrong restroom, I think I would have confronted her right then and there, like,
Clearly, Wenda has been all through this house because she does clean it up from time to time to get a little extra money, probably a little extra drugs. Like she she clearly has probably been in that that room more than a few times. And maybe it's true that she's never used that bathroom. And I know that that will be a boundary for me to go into even like.
especially at the house, like with children, you know what I'm saying? I wouldn't want you to just be all up in my master. So maybe that was the time to be like, hey, girl, why did you use my restroom? And see what her answer is right there. Also, if they're friends, is that still a boundary? Like if your friends, they grew up together? I guess not, because it's not like she's a married woman.
But if it's something that's out of out of her usual, like, oh, girl, why did you use that bathroom? Even if I'm it's because I'm about to accuse you later. I'd probably like, oh, girl, why did you use that bathroom instead of the bathroom like you always do? That was the perfect way to start that.
I ain't do it if I did. If somebody is on their knees telling me, bitch, I know how crazy you are. I wouldn't dare crush you. Please, you got to believe me. I think I believe them. That may just be me being naive, but... You know? And you know they said they never found the purse or the money, ever. That's wild, right? I ain't do it, but if I did, I just feel like...
Even if you even if you tied her up a little bit, you know, I'm saying even if you was that mad that you was like, sit your ass here and I'm gonna tie you to this chair. Where the fuck is my purse? Stop fucking playing with me. You had the gun and you did not use it once, even if you didn't plan on using it.
Bitch, where the fuck is my motherfucking money? And if she really don't have it, and you went to her home, you went to her home and searched her home without her there. Right. And you still did not find it. Right. How good is she? You know? I just don't feel like, I don't know. I just don't feel like Wendis took it. I think, I think Quentin took it. That's why Quentin hauled his little ass on out of there. Quentin, I think...
Quentin took it. Or James T. James T ain't got no teeth in the front and was high as giraffe pussy. What makes you think, and you don't have any type of relationship with James T other than that you know him and you let him stay in your house. So what makes it so that James T ain't take it? Why you ain't accuse nobody else at that house? I just want to know. Like...
And maybe there's a backstory. Like, did Wenda steal something from you before? If so, why is she still at your house? Or did Wenda steal from somebody else before? Well, they all own drugs. They probably have. I mean, everybody has stolen something. I don't know, but I wouldn't steal nothing that big. Stealing some meat from the grocery store is different than stealing some money from your friend. Right.
You know? I feel like stealing from people versus stealing from stores is two totally different levels because one is like you... Personal. It is personal. I just, I ain't do it, but if I did, I just wouldn't have done it. Like, I just wouldn't. This is one of those cases where it's just like... You went in towards your girl. And I think it's because, I think it's because like I know myself and Taz, you know me, I can't keep up with anything. I will lose stuff that is right in front of me.
It is really a thing. When I was in, I went to go hang out with my cousins and this is our first time. We had a big Airbnb and this is our first time hanging out as adults. And I got my Apple watch and I was like, damn, where's my phone? Where's my phone? And I kept pinging that shit. And after a while, it was like, raw. Why the fuck can't you keep up with your shit? It's right here.
I just can't do it. It's not a great trait, but it's I know myself. And maybe she was like, I know myself. I know I keep up with all my shit. I know exactly where my things are because some people are like that. But I'm trying to put myself in the situation. And I just know that like the last thing that I can do is start by blaming other people because that's who I am. Yeah. But she ain't me and I ain't her. So.
Parole or no parole? Yeah, I do feel like Margaret would have found her way in prison at some point doing something. I do think, however, that in the beginning they could have given her, they could have saved her the mumbo jumbo and had a proper trial where they were presenting the evidence properly about that PTSD. Because one thing that I did see, um,
In a video where her lawyer was talking to it's like one of the appeals or something like that, where the lawyer is talking to a panel, the panel of Supreme Court judges in that state or the panel of judges in that state trying to plead for her case. And one of the things that was brought up.
After the fact and not brought up during her jury trial was the fact that that PTSD can really play a factor and her losing or not being able to find or thinking that somebody stole it and constantly looking, looking, looking and unable to search and find.
could trigger her PTSD, making her react irrationally. Right? So I do think that if that was put into play from the very beginning, then it would have saved us a whole hullabaloo about death and don't put her to death and all that stuff. Life without the possibility of parole, 100%. But I do think that if some things were put in play, we would save the court a lot of time. And you know what I wrote down is,
That PTSD that I thought about, it was, I thought about what we said at the very beginning of the story about how her mother for punishment would hold their head underwater. So it was almost like they couldn't breathe. And she was like repeating her mom's actions.
She was repeating her mother's actions, yes. And how many times has her mother done that to her and she pretended to be unconscious or her mom would stop and so she assumed that Wenda was doing the same thing. Mm-hmm. And then...
pouring things down her throat the who thinks of that that you know what I'm saying so I do think that some that PTSD did come in play with this murder and if it would have been brought to the court ahead of time it would have saved the court a lot of time by going ahead and putting her in prison for life without the possibility of parole that's where I stand on that
I know you said no parole as well. So yeah. Any final thoughts on this case? And it's crazy. Like, I mean, all her family is in and out of prison and it's like chaos really surrounded her. And I really think that, unfortunately, I think that she was one of those people that just really didn't have, she was born a statistic, you know?
And I think it's so it's so crazy. Like, I would love to have the opportunity to sit down with a family and go back generations and generations and hear all of their bullshit. Hell, my own family. Because I think those people who like beat the statistic, there's something that intervened.
Whether it was school came a little bit easier to you, you know what I'm saying? Like things clicked and so school seemed like a path for you or somebody took an interest in you and cared about you in a way that other people, but typically those people had something that intervened that. Right. Systematicness. She had an aunt that they interviewed one time and they, she was like, I made a conscious decision. She was like, I,
I became a CNA and I made a conscious decision that whatever happened, I was going to be able to move my kids out of this area. You know what I'm saying? And that's one family member out of her whole lineage of in and out of prison and her whole lineage of constant abuse. That's one branch of one little branch of her family tree that got out. Mm hmm.
You know who I want to have a podcast? I mean, who I want to be a sponsor? Because that's what they do. We're definitely cutting this out. But have you ever heard of them? They do ads for other podcasts. They should be a sponsor for this podcast. Um...
But I also think that families, especially Black families, we don't have those conversations either. So like the pain that her mama was feeling or that her mom was feeling, that her mom was feeling, now her children are feeling and her children are going to feel and her children are going to feel, you know? And it's because there's that lack of communication with Black families. There's that lack of trust with Black families. And there's a lack of resources on how to communicate
stop the cycle because she really was set up for failure from the beginning yeah and wenda unfortunately made friends with wrong person all right that's the end of the show for real a real for real
All right, y'all. It is time for some reviews. If you'd like to leave us a review, you can do it in a multitude of ways. If you're on Spotify and you just want to say, hey, sorry you can't write us a review, but you can rate us five stars. If you do want to write us a review, you can email it to us at sisterswhokillpodcast and we may read it on the show. You can also leave reviews on a multitude of platforms such as Audible and Scribd. Also, of course, Apple Podcasts.
Taz, do you have a review? Voo-voo? Voo-voo-voo-voo? I do. This review actually came from Instagram. Oh. Ooh. This was down in the DMs. So it says, so I wasn't going to say anything because you two are already fully aware of how amazing you are.
Not only as individuals, but for all you do in the true crime space. I'm just writing to tell you that if you ever doubted yourselves or contemplated stopping, please don't. Y'all's work is truly one of one. I've binged the entire series in about a month and a half and was truly devastated when I ran out. So much that I started looking for other Black girl-owned and operated true crime podcasts. And let's just say it's not hard to see how much of an impact white supremacy has on how we view ourselves and tell each other's story.
I have been utterly disappointed in how a lot of these women and men's stories have been told via our own. I thank you both for providing truth and context to each story of each woman told and allowing her experience to be presented front and center and not just what she did. You are appreciated and needed. Thank you. Well, that just made me cry.
For real. Y'all don't understand. Like, ourself, I don't know about Tazzy, but my self-confidence goes up and down and down and down and then up a little bit and down a little bit more. I'm really crying. Like, that actually made me feel good. I was like, Morani's doing this. I'm going to read it on the show. Thanks.
Give her a minute to get herself together. I just, you know, this is not easy. It is not. Let me tell you. It is not. And a lot of times, I mean, I don't feel like what we're doing is in vain. Like, I don't feel that way. But I do feel like what we do is a lot of work and is it it has consumed our lives in ways.
Sisters Who Kill has become part of who I am. And sometimes I don't know if I'm doing good enough or if I'm doing it right. Because it's always going to be somebody who says something. You know what I mean? Right. People love to tell us when we're doing wrong. Like the other week. Yeah. That really got to you. I'm sure that this episode is not coming. Yes. Last week of when we're recording, it's probably not going to come out. But last week...
I mean, everybody was so upset with me.
And I don't know if it was so upset, but it was just like, it was, I think the episode was maybe two hours and there were three negative comments. And not necessarily the worst comments, but like, oh, you could have did this differently and didn't like the way you did that. That episode was not two hours. That episode was like 45 minutes, 45, 50 minutes. No, it had been up for like two hours. Oh, yes. It had been up for two, I woke up.
up out of the bed with people pissed and then y'all got mad about the anchor ad and then everybody was mad about this and then somebody said I said this and then people said that you can't pronounce this and I'm just like I'm sorry. And Mariah, she'll get real into herself and be like, well, can I do anything right? And it's just like,
So here's a I think a lot of our responses are you guys are really what's get us through. And I feel like I think we just say that. But like there have been times where it's been like this shit sucks. But everybody else says they like it and they're expecting another one. So I think we're going to push through like. Right. Y'all get us through it for real. It's we're at this point doing it for y'all. We are committed to y'all. We appreciate y'all. Y'all keep it going.
Right. Because we have told y'all this is the most that Tazzy and I have been committed to anything since sports. Yeah. In high school. Yeah. Okay. Well, that was great. Okay. This is from some call me kitten. Five stars. Hands down my favorite cat. Sorry. I can't get it together.
Hands down my favorite podcast. I listen every single week. I play it in my salon. I tell all my clients and now my family listens too. So to hear this week's case about my hometown, Jersey City, I strangely enough felt seen. I attended Rutgers University and the food at Delta's used to be amazing. Now it's so-so. Okay. Well, the food was amazing when they had their engagement party. Definitely nothing to write home about.
Also, I'm familiar with Rutgers Mountain View Project, which is which allows incarcerated people to obtain a degree from Rutgers University. In some cases, once they're released, they're actually in class with us and they're also at the parties. Imagine being imagine being in the student center and seeing a group of men dressed in oversized suits.
Once you got to know them, they were really cool and they were hella smart. We just had to get them up to speed with fashion. I mean, damn, they've been in prison. Anywho, thank you for this podcast. I can't wait to hear the next episode. Keep up the incredible work, ladies. Thank you so much, kid. Thank you, kid. Look at you all snot-nosed over there. I am just...
This would be the day I didn't FaceTime you. I'm sure y'all over there just... And what I was telling you today, I was like, I just been feeling so emotionally disconnected to everything. And here y'all niggas go making me cry. You did. Just before we recorded, it was just like, I'm trying hard to care. And then look at you. Just all the emotions.
Okay. All right, y'all. That's the end of the show. For real, for real. If you'd like to keep up with us, you can follow us on Twitter.
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